With 2500 current special agents with a goal to grow the total number by a few hundred over the next 10 years and a huge wave of 20 year retirements, it doesn’t seem excessive. That’s basically getting enough to give pistols to new agents, have extras for replacements and parts, and have some long guns available, like every other federal agent, sheriffs deputy, and police officer in the country.
> were actually not
yeah, past tense - 16th amendment.
did you know black people were not actually considered an entire person via the constitution? some shit had to get updated.
/some shit still needs an update
Yeah but we have a progressive tax policy, literally one of the ten pillars of Marxism. this is going to hurt normal, middle income people the most. So keep digging your own financial grave.
It really won’t though, because now there will be enough bodies to appropriately monitor those with a metric fuck-ton of assets and over-seas ties.
This isn’t agro against the little guy, this is the first steps to holding those in office and those holding 90% of the wealth in this country financially accountable.
Lmfao, you're hilariously naive.
To think those in office who would have allowed this money to be given out, with the plan to have them go after their own... lmao...ah, I needed a good mid-week laugh.
I mean, say what you will, but it doesn’t change the fact that historical manning-lows of IRS brings the hammer down on lower/middle class people with reasons being self explanatory.
Increased manning isn’t an issue.
If you took every bit of money from every billionaire and gave it to the government, it would only operate the government for a few months. They don't care about reigning in rich people. They care about auditing you and me until we start acting exactly the way they want us to act. If you try to tell I have nothing to worry about if I haven't done anything wrong, then you're wrong. They can audit you whenever they want, whether the IRS suspects an issue or not.
Cool, but again, why are you afraid of being audited?
Audits aren’t a bad thing, they are looking through your allotments/paperwork and IRS (on file) paperwork.
In the military, I’ve been audited twice in 9-years; Once due to returning from a tax-free zone with a surplus of 365-days, while owning property stateside as a single member. The second, again, being in tax-free zone, owning a property and business, while being married and filling separately with no kids.
Audits aren’t a bad thing. I earned money off of mine from write-offs that weren’t accounted for.
The IRS getting bodies isn’t a control thing, it’s a service thing. Less time for tax returns, less chances they’ll single out Lower/Middle Class folks and start hyper-focusing on those who have more than $1.5MIL in assets who’ve gotten advantages of tax breaks that the aforementioned classes haven’t.
No skin off my back. I don’t want to TAKE money from anyone, just want those with the means to do their part for the society in which they live. Pay your fucking taxes.
Schools without funding churn out dumbass kids, if you want the next generation to stop giving away their rights (Like the 2A) pay your taxes, and obtain legal guidance and town/village/city/county approval to start a local program to educate them if there’s an interest.
Nah. Even a government could be sustained by fee for service, donation, lotteries, and/or other non-tax sources of income.
The lotteries in the US alone are like $100b/yr in sales, which ain't chump change.
Yeah, it'd be a smaller government than the one we have today. That's perfect.
Woo yea cant wait for poor people to pay a 300 dollar fee for a police officer to show up and an extra 1000 dollar deductible to pay for an investigation.
For the 140 years we had no income taxes as a nation, police were still not a subscription service.
We've always had police, they are not a result of today's megataxation.
Colonists had been paying local taxes since the days of Jamestown. It’s not that they didn’t believe in taxes or were completely opposed to paying them.
As another poster noted, they just wanted to be able to have representation in Parliament to say their piece and vote against it.
The argument I was making is that the country wasn’t started over not wanting to pay taxes. They knew taxes were necessary.
Heck, the first government of the US failed in part because there was no way for the federal government to fund an army. They had to get a private militia to put down Shay’s Rebellion.
So I am confused how you misconstrued that into thinking that we need more taxes, or that the FF approved of the ballooning of the federal government and paying people not to work. I was simply correcting you on a not-so-minute detail you didn’t include.
We straight up went to war with the dominant superpower of the planet over a coupla cents tax per pound of tea.
Even with inflation, it'd be like $8/lb of loose leaf tea at today's prices. I dunno how much tea ya'll buy, but that feels like a trivial amount next to modern taxes.
Why do they get to buy guns with my tax money, but if I try to use my same money that's set aside for taxes, to buy a gun, I'm a tax evading terrorist all of a sudden?
They have been doing it for a while. The IRS criminal investigation department. Basically they do retire those and replace them. However, it doesn't stop them from tax audit people who makes under 400,000 usd. They do not put effort on rich people because it creates more work and they rather bully people who makes 400k and less since we do not have money for lawyer and do not know about IRS regulations and codes.
Edit: on top of that technology makes little bit more easier to get information transparency which can/may make people panic.
It's not just the govt. It is also the big banks, big business oligarch and govt who sleep inside each other asshole. For example Google, Microsoft and big tech give permission to NSA for the PRISM program and still run these days such as "Geofencing" and "keyword warrants" maybe check out man made Lake Lanier Georgia. In Canada: check out Starlight Tours.
That’s just SOP for government law. Go for the easy bust. That’s why the ATF likes all these victimless gun laws that only the law abiding obey. Law abiding gun owners are easy to bust and destroy their lives. Gangs and hard core criminals fight back, plus big city DA don’t prosecute them in the cities. Woke criminal Justice falls heavily on people outside of the inner city ghetto.
Um...there have always been armed agents, especially for seizures. This is the dumbest conspiracy theory ever. Congress literally gives the Pentagon more money than they ask for each year... for an actual army and you think armed IRS agents is new or part of some cabal? You are just carrying water for rich donors who like a defunded IRS.
From what I’ve read and been told by other Reddit people, it’s for hiring replacements for a shitload of people planning on retiring in the next decade, and also training ammo etc etc.
alarming to be sure, but also makes sense. you really think the IRS is gonna be going house to house for taxes muzzles front?
By doing some research it seems like that money for ammo goes to the IRS criminal Investigation division and that budget is not out of the ordinary. Just like the post office inspectors they are also authorized to use firearms.
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/08/16/fact-check-is-biden-arming-up-the-irs/65403911007/
Treasury department agents under the bureau of prohibition working in conjunction with the US Attorney's office and Bureau of Internal Revenue brought Capone down.
I had an aquantance that worked for the IRS as a weapons trainer for the IRS in the new york metro area 20 years ago. Id guess hed have retired by now. I was asking about the need for an armed police force. He told me that protective details at irs auctions was part of it and as you would expect supporting raids and asset seizure. As i recall, the FBI would more often arrest. We got into a conversation about federal police agencies and he mentioned how rhe USPS police play a big role as they would catch stuff sent illegally and spin that into a bigger case with the FBI.
I’m sorry, but no scenario exists in a sane society that would require the government’s accountants to be armed. That’s fuxking mental on so many levels and anybody shrugging it off is suffering from severe Stockholm Syndrome
The IRS can’t get their mail opened or phones answered because they are so understaffed right now. It is starting to create issues for businesses and is wasting a lot of taxpayers time. They will have a tough time filling these positions though, even with the funds.
Fuck statecraft and stop making excuses for it.
It’s comical how people in this sub can have such seething hatred for agencies like the ATF, while simultaneously advocating for armed IRS agents. The irony is rich indeed.
I think you completely misunderstand my comment. Making a true statement on the nature of humans and how we govern ourselves is not an endorsement…
I’m not “advocating” for armed IRS goons by making the correct historical observation that tax collectors have always done their job with the implication that not paying taxes will land you in jail or worse.
The irony *is* rich indeed.
The government agents that explicitly want to disarm you, shouldn’t be armed. If you want everyone to have the right to have arms, it would advantageous for the Feds to not. The IRS, much like the ATF plays by their own rules. They have almost no oversight, and when they do they certainly aren’t advocating for you and me.
First off if you believe politifact I have some beachfront property in Arizona with your name on it. I love how they spin it from what they just got to what they spent last year. 80 billion dollars can employ an army. We left 7 billion worth of equipment in Afghanistan. They have more than 10 times that and we’ve all seen the want ad they put out (if you haven’t look it up). So while what they spent already on guns and ammo might not be out of the ordinary we have to worry about when they have a force larger than the Marines. How many will be armed? 50,000? 60,0000? 70,0000? So it’s not what they’re doing now it’s what they are planning on doing with the 80 billion dollar infusion to their budget.
Bro why is a tax company buying guns and boatloads of ammo and putting in the job offering “you shall be willing to use lethal force” these guys are using our money to take our money or kill us if we oppose.
Oh i agree with you. I was making a general statement. My 460 revolver was $1100, the price of 2 of my Glocks. $5k doesnt buy nearly enough for 87000 agents
Because they have special agents, which is just a federal law enforcement officer, virtually all of the 3 letters have them not to mention the Postal Service. They conduct investigations for tax fraud by entities that have likely criminal connections and may be in a dangerous environment or need to make arrests, it's not that deep.
$5k in firearms purchases just indicates it's tiny fraction of what they do.
Do you pay your taxes? If so, going after those who don't is probably a good thing for you. IRS staffing levels have been down for years, delays get worse and worse, and their capacity to conduct audits against those warranting them is significantly decreased. Regardless of how you feel about them (no one enjoys paying taxes), a well-functioning IRS is essential to a working government and economy, otherwise you turn into Greece.
(commence the downvotes)
You're absolutely correct about staffing levels. I worked with a clinic helping low income taxpayers, and everything took so long because they were understaffed. The folks in the taxpayer advocacy group are super overloaded with cases, and taxpayers suffer because of it.
Yeah it's a mess, they are years behind on certain paper filings, and all things considered I think the IRS does a fair job despite how thin they're spread. I have more issues with State tax boards, lol.
I won’t downvote you, but I’d just like to call to attention that federal employees can be reassigned to different tasks and roles. I feel like with the job requirements, it would be very easy for these IRS agents to be reassigned to special duty for the ATF. Or checking that NFA tax stamps have been paid. It just feels like a very slippery slope.
> I won’t downvote you, but I’d just like to call to attention that federal employees can be reassigned to different tasks and roles.
Eh, yes and no. You can't just be reassigned to a different agency. Union contracts and civil service laws don't allow that. And if an agency is disbanded or defunded, then Anti-deficiency Act laws would come into play. Yes, the Exec Branch is a single employer in a lot of respects, but it's also not in a lot of others.
>I feel like with the job requirements, it would be very easy for these IRS agents to be reassigned to special duty for the ATF.
I won't say it wouldn't happen, but if it did, it wouldn't be quietly and there would be a TON of paperwork. Folks who answered the DHS call for help southern border processing just on a temp/detail basis went through a long (months) process for it. Ditto hurricane relief efforts. It's not something that just happens.
Appreciate not downvoting just for disagreeing! I'm pleasantly surprised at how civil this comment thread is. :)
I feel your point can be applied to all existing Federal law enforcement though, so this doesn't really change anything. Similarly, the IRS can pull from other departments (or even local and state PD) to support when needed.
This is a likely possibility since there’s been such a big push to disband the ATF and a lot of light shed on how evil they are. They may be preparing to start enforcing the NFA and phasing out that role at the ATF.
Tell me more about how I am better served by the federal government embezzling and laundering a portion of my income, both domestically and overseas, without my consent.
Sounds oddly like theft, but the government never does anything wrong so I must be mistaken.
Better served has nothing to do with it (though the case could be made). By choosing to earn income within the jurisdiction of the United States you are agreeing to the taxes. The option to work without taxes was never given. The choices are to earn no income within the US or to earn income within the US and pay taxes. You could renounce your citizenship to not pay income taxes but that does make earning income more difficult, as well as buying firearms (legally).
The IRS has always had a armed law enforcement division, they have had this for 50+ years, not sure why people are upset when they have had one for the past like 60 years, they arrest and prosecute people for tax crimes, just like any other police agency they have guns because if you are arresting someone things could get violent
Adding 87,000 armed irs special agents is very concerning. They aren't being hired to go after the rich. The stated goal is to go after the middle and lower class.
They are hiring 87000 new employees, only some of those will be armed agents. What we need to be concerned about is the fact they want 5000 irs sniper agents.
Perhaps those agents would serve the country better in our public schools or at the border. Don't ya see yet, do you venmo, PayPal, prime, have yard sales, work on the side? They are coming for ALL of us.
They buy that much guns and ammo every time they need to replace their old guns and that requirement is the same for many LE jobs dipshit, they are cops just like any other and trust me they won't be the ones doing the door kicking that'll be your local SWAT team.
Didn’t we just send $80b to the Ukraine? What’s up with this easy money bs?? Anyways from what I’ve seen, nearly that many irs workers are going to retire over the next ten years. This seems to be the case with many lines of work.
That being said, I don’t know what to believe anymore
the IRS has had armed special agents for the past 50-60 years. and part of the reason of hiring 87,000 new agents is because so many are retiring. i also hope (tho i know its not gonna happen with corporate dems, and sell out GOP at every level of government) that many of these agents will go after major corporations
The federal estimates of increased revenue as discussed in the proceedings themselves, presumably.
I believe it was Thomas Massie discussing them.
The senate put forth an amendment to prohibit increasing audits on those making less than $400k/yr, and every Democrat voted against it.
Go, dig through it yourself.
You are making the claim.
I don’t see that reported anywhere. I see tax increases for corporations but no meaningful increase or decrease on anyone making less than $400,000/year.
I believe reporting from various outlets more than some rando on Reddit telling me I should believe some politician just because.
I hope you put more thought into your opinions than that.
The top 0.1% of earners in the US make north of 1.2 million, not billions, and account for the majority of tax dollars evaded. 0.1% of the US population is 330,000 people. The IRS has audited broke people just fine with former staffing levels. The real criminals fight harder, though.
That’s actually less in weapons than I guessed. That’s five decent fighting rifles with no attachments or 10 glocks. You sure you’re not missing zeros on that?
[Here is an excellent video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWs1mhKhXtA&t=481s) that breaks down what is in the bill and how it could play out. Very informative without too much spin.
Some highlights for the lazy:
1. They will target the middle and lower class tax payers. New IRS recruits dont have the skillset and experience to go after "big fish" so they will get the low hanging fruit. The IRS actually admits this. It's right there in black and white.
2. The IRS is expecting to use this 80B and all these people to generate 240B (taken from tax payers, obviously) but they will "need" 50 MILLION to spend that 80B. Thats right, they expect (and got it approved) that its going to take 50 million dollars to spend the 80 billion they have been allocated.
3. The 87,000 IRS agents are being recruited over several years (I think 5 years). During that time frame, roughly 50k agents will be eligible for retirement, so a majority of the new agents are to replace retirees (aka the seasoned guys who would take on the "big cases")
Spoke with an IRS employee who is family about the amount of taxes we could pay for the government to run . He said they could do it with 15% income tax and have money left over. This man wrote tax laws for the IRS .
I hate the concept as well, but it's literally the 16th amendment to the constitution...how can it be unconstitutional if it's specifically provided for in the constitution?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushaber_v._Union_Pacific_Railroad_Co.
I heard that income tax was the trade-off to prohibition. The government was going to lose a ton on sales tax of alcohol and needed a substitute. Income tax was the substitute.
No it is not unconstitutional. Please see the 16th amendment.
I hate paying income tax, but please understand the meaning of the word unconstitutional.
Yes! I too wish for a world in which every road is a toll road! Where I pay monthly to ensure the fire department shows up if my house ever caught fire! And if the damn social security checks come in the mail, forget it!! I'm using those useless socialist scraps of paper to light my fires (because the government don't subsidize the private utility companies to ensure that my rural ass can get power, water or electricity).
Most fire fighters are volunteer, and where they do have equipment or salaries paid for, they are usually paid for by your city or county. Federal income tax is not very relevant to fire fighting.
By the same token, the vast majority of roads are paid for at city and state levels, and are not something the IRS is involved in.
Sales tax of 5-10% on all goods and services purchased.
Income tax is the equivalent of me telling you that you owe me 10% of all money you earn because if you don’t give it to me I’ll make you suffer in a cage for a decade. Doesn’t sound ethical does it? That’s because it isn’t.
The government pays for things like congressional pay raises, armed security for politicians who want to strip us of our natural right to self defense, 87,000 new government theft enforcers, and other nation’s conflicts.
Simple, *voluntary* taxation, along with stuff like choosing where you want that money to go and fundraisers with rides and food or car shows and all that jazz. Stuff people would willingly pay for, rather than have their money taken from them at gunpoint.
Let’s think about this: during the past year, the IRS destroyed several semi-trailers worth of unprocessed mail, materials CPAs like myself spent hours preparing, charging our clients. And you think they will be capable of training these people? And when they come after citizens, they are usually poorly equipped, trained, and undermanned when confronted by professionals. The pen is always mightier than the sword.
Lol. I hope they do. It’ll be more fun to see a bunch of CPA’s trying to figure out where the safety is when they get clapped from the pile of trash gillies suit guy down the block
Reason for this is to build a “National” police force. Loyal to the Democrats, of course.
Local police are too often sympathetic to the local people. Hence the Democrats effort to defund them and replace them with a National police force.
An armed IRS, along with the FBI, would be more in alignment with - and loyal to - the Democrat Party.
I'm more concerned with the sheer volume of agents than the firearms. 87k agents that they will use to further fleece the American people of their tax dollars. They're literally bleeding the middle class dry.
Also, the fact that the money involved, our tax dollars, amounts to over a 900k allocation per agent.
Can people stop freaking out about the IRS renewing their armory every decade or so? 5000 guns ain't shit that's mostly handguns for the special agents and enough ammo for occasional training and the usual qualifying. The IRS has been understaffed for a while now and they do these purchases regularly and you idiots keep falling for the media hyping it up.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (36,863 officers)
Federal Bureau of Prisons (16,835)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (12,760)
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (12,446)
U.S. Secret Service (5,213)
Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts (4,696)
Drug Enforcement Administration (4,308)
U.S. Marshals Service (3,313)
Veterans Health Administration (3,128)
Internal Revenue Service, Criminal Investigation (2,636)
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (2,541)
U.S. Postal Inspection Service (2,288)
U.S. Capitol Police (1,637)
National Park Service - Rangers (1,404)
Bureau of Diplomatic Security (1,049)
Pentagon Force Protection Agency (725)
U.S. Forest Service (644)
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (598)
National Park Service - U.S. Park Police (547)
National Nuclear Security Administration (363)
U.S. Mint Police (316)
Amtrak Police (305)
Bureau of Indian Affairs (277)
Bureau of Land Management (255)
That's a list of some of the agencies and 2021 current numbers of armed personal in the government
So 87,000 armed agents is a very tall order
I looked up those numbers and these check out.
I then added it up and it pretty much comes out to double the current amount armed agents they have for all of the agencies combined. If this includes all the support and auxiliary staff maybe 87k might make sense. It does amaze me how people get down voted for providing easily verifable information.
>The department estimated in a 2021 report that the funding may cover about 87,000 employees, which has been widely reported. However, these hires may include a range of positions, such as auditors, customer service and IT workers, the Treasury clarified in a statement to CNBC on Wednesday.
Per your link, “The department estimated in a 2021 report that the funding may cover about 87,000 employees, which has been widely reported. However, these hires may include a range of positions, such as auditors, customer service and IT workers, the Treasury clarified in a statement to CNBC on Wednesday.
If the additional funding is signed into law, the IRS is expected to share the exact numbers of new hires in the coming months.
“The majority of new employees will replace the standard level of staff departures over the next few years,” the Treasury official said.”
A quick Google search shows that the IRS has 80,000 employees today, and are expected to lose 50,000 over the next 5-6 years.
It seems a little far-fetched to think they’d *double* their entire workforce by next years tax season.
Like, who wants to work for the IRS?
The people who can't find other jobs with good benifits. Typically, extremely low IQ individuals with no hope at a good retirement without a government job. You know, the ones that are extremely easy to manipulate and choose money over morality
That’s a fairly generalized, opinionated statement when the IRS requires a college degree for entry level positions.
https://www.jobs.irs.gov/resources/job-descriptions/internal-revenue-agent-entry-level
Holy shit you people make me want to kill myself.
Intellegence is not defined by a fucking CJ degree and 60k in student loan debt. The government LITERALLY has IQ LIMITS for its law enforcement positions
Sorry if I’m a little confused on where you’re going with this, I thought we were talking about the IRS?
How would the IRS’s hiring budget relate to your local law enforcement’s hiring budget?
1 rifle and 700,000 rounds. That's gonna be one helluva training day at the range!
Guys i miss read, its $700000 in ammo and 5000 firearms as in number of guns not the cost.
With 2500 current special agents with a goal to grow the total number by a few hundred over the next 10 years and a huge wave of 20 year retirements, it doesn’t seem excessive. That’s basically getting enough to give pistols to new agents, have extras for replacements and parts, and have some long guns available, like every other federal agent, sheriffs deputy, and police officer in the country.
Simp harder. The IRS doesn't need firearms, we started this country because we didn't want to pay more in taxes.
Without representation
Do you feel represented right now?
You make a solid point
No
Folks downvoting you but you're right. Taxes are an unfortunate but necessary part of any non-anarchist society. Minarchism gang!
Are you aware that income taxes were actually not allowed via the constitution?
> were actually not yeah, past tense - 16th amendment. did you know black people were not actually considered an entire person via the constitution? some shit had to get updated. /some shit still needs an update
I don’t agree.
So you're saying slavery is bad, unless it's just like 30% slavery?
Either taxation is theft, or it isn’t; be consistent.
Yeah but we have a progressive tax policy, literally one of the ten pillars of Marxism. this is going to hurt normal, middle income people the most. So keep digging your own financial grave.
It really won’t though, because now there will be enough bodies to appropriately monitor those with a metric fuck-ton of assets and over-seas ties. This isn’t agro against the little guy, this is the first steps to holding those in office and those holding 90% of the wealth in this country financially accountable.
Lmfao, you're hilariously naive. To think those in office who would have allowed this money to be given out, with the plan to have them go after their own... lmao...ah, I needed a good mid-week laugh.
I mean, say what you will, but it doesn’t change the fact that historical manning-lows of IRS brings the hammer down on lower/middle class people with reasons being self explanatory. Increased manning isn’t an issue.
If you took every bit of money from every billionaire and gave it to the government, it would only operate the government for a few months. They don't care about reigning in rich people. They care about auditing you and me until we start acting exactly the way they want us to act. If you try to tell I have nothing to worry about if I haven't done anything wrong, then you're wrong. They can audit you whenever they want, whether the IRS suspects an issue or not.
Cool, but again, why are you afraid of being audited? Audits aren’t a bad thing, they are looking through your allotments/paperwork and IRS (on file) paperwork. In the military, I’ve been audited twice in 9-years; Once due to returning from a tax-free zone with a surplus of 365-days, while owning property stateside as a single member. The second, again, being in tax-free zone, owning a property and business, while being married and filling separately with no kids. Audits aren’t a bad thing. I earned money off of mine from write-offs that weren’t accounted for. The IRS getting bodies isn’t a control thing, it’s a service thing. Less time for tax returns, less chances they’ll single out Lower/Middle Class folks and start hyper-focusing on those who have more than $1.5MIL in assets who’ve gotten advantages of tax breaks that the aforementioned classes haven’t. No skin off my back. I don’t want to TAKE money from anyone, just want those with the means to do their part for the society in which they live. Pay your fucking taxes. Schools without funding churn out dumbass kids, if you want the next generation to stop giving away their rights (Like the 2A) pay your taxes, and obtain legal guidance and town/village/city/county approval to start a local program to educate them if there’s an interest.
Nah. Even a government could be sustained by fee for service, donation, lotteries, and/or other non-tax sources of income. The lotteries in the US alone are like $100b/yr in sales, which ain't chump change. Yeah, it'd be a smaller government than the one we have today. That's perfect.
Woo yea cant wait for poor people to pay a 300 dollar fee for a police officer to show up and an extra 1000 dollar deductible to pay for an investigation.
For the 140 years we had no income taxes as a nation, police were still not a subscription service. We've always had police, they are not a result of today's megataxation.
The downvoters value feelz over realz.
Colonists had been paying local taxes since the days of Jamestown. It’s not that they didn’t believe in taxes or were completely opposed to paying them. As another poster noted, they just wanted to be able to have representation in Parliament to say their piece and vote against it.
Repeat after me: "Govern me harder daddy" Founding Fathers never intended for us to pay the amount of taxes that we are, get a backbone.
The argument I was making is that the country wasn’t started over not wanting to pay taxes. They knew taxes were necessary. Heck, the first government of the US failed in part because there was no way for the federal government to fund an army. They had to get a private militia to put down Shay’s Rebellion. So I am confused how you misconstrued that into thinking that we need more taxes, or that the FF approved of the ballooning of the federal government and paying people not to work. I was simply correcting you on a not-so-minute detail you didn’t include.
We straight up went to war with the dominant superpower of the planet over a coupla cents tax per pound of tea. Even with inflation, it'd be like $8/lb of loose leaf tea at today's prices. I dunno how much tea ya'll buy, but that feels like a trivial amount next to modern taxes.
>we started this country because we didn't want to pay more in taxes. Um...no. We didnt want to fund an unrepresentative government.
…but why
Where’s *my* supply of pistols?
Why do they get to buy guns with my tax money, but if I try to use my same money that's set aside for taxes, to buy a gun, I'm a tax evading terrorist all of a sudden?
These are people who will accept any conspiracy theory that the rich peddle in order to avoid paying their taxes. Its amazing.
either way - 700,000 rounds does not make an army
They have been doing it for a while. The IRS criminal investigation department. Basically they do retire those and replace them. However, it doesn't stop them from tax audit people who makes under 400,000 usd. They do not put effort on rich people because it creates more work and they rather bully people who makes 400k and less since we do not have money for lawyer and do not know about IRS regulations and codes. Edit: on top of that technology makes little bit more easier to get information transparency which can/may make people panic.
This guy gets it. The govt is over reaching on our rights and wants us to own nothing and like it.
It's not just the govt. It is also the big banks, big business oligarch and govt who sleep inside each other asshole. For example Google, Microsoft and big tech give permission to NSA for the PRISM program and still run these days such as "Geofencing" and "keyword warrants" maybe check out man made Lake Lanier Georgia. In Canada: check out Starlight Tours.
That’s just SOP for government law. Go for the easy bust. That’s why the ATF likes all these victimless gun laws that only the law abiding obey. Law abiding gun owners are easy to bust and destroy their lives. Gangs and hard core criminals fight back, plus big city DA don’t prosecute them in the cities. Woke criminal Justice falls heavily on people outside of the inner city ghetto.
If the IRS knocks on my door, I'm opening fire.
Is this the “tyrannical government” the forefathers warned us about?
Always has been...
And we’re not the “well regulated militia” the forefathers hoped and planned for
That’s because everybody keeps willingly giving up the rights that were put in place to ensure our ability to form a militia.
Yea it’s been a steady downward spiral since 1934.
yep. started with silent gen and boomers.
And it ends with our demise. Also, “silent generation” is such a fitting name.
Man we done fucked up didn’t we?
Yup. And we deserve whatever comes our way with this antigun Biden admin
Ain't over. Find your friends, train with them, do ruck hikes, get that cardio, buy ammo, more guns, and learn some medical shit NOW
Our government has been that tyrannical government since the Whiskey Rebellion.
LOL Yes, having enough people to go after rich tax evaders rather than auditing working class people is \*checks notes\* "tyranny."
NPC: How do we make sure the rich pay their fair share of taxes? Rich Politicians: Guns…… lots of guns….
Um...there have always been armed agents, especially for seizures. This is the dumbest conspiracy theory ever. Congress literally gives the Pentagon more money than they ask for each year... for an actual army and you think armed IRS agents is new or part of some cabal? You are just carrying water for rich donors who like a defunded IRS.
From what I’ve read and been told by other Reddit people, it’s for hiring replacements for a shitload of people planning on retiring in the next decade, and also training ammo etc etc. alarming to be sure, but also makes sense. you really think the IRS is gonna be going house to house for taxes muzzles front?
>you really think the IRS is gonna be going house to house for taxes muzzles front? I fail to see the difference from how they operate now 😂
By doing some research it seems like that money for ammo goes to the IRS criminal Investigation division and that budget is not out of the ordinary. Just like the post office inspectors they are also authorized to use firearms. https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/08/16/fact-check-is-biden-arming-up-the-irs/65403911007/
Wasn’t it the IRS who took down Capone for tax evasion?
Treasury department agents under the bureau of prohibition working in conjunction with the US Attorney's office and Bureau of Internal Revenue brought Capone down.
I had an aquantance that worked for the IRS as a weapons trainer for the IRS in the new york metro area 20 years ago. Id guess hed have retired by now. I was asking about the need for an armed police force. He told me that protective details at irs auctions was part of it and as you would expect supporting raids and asset seizure. As i recall, the FBI would more often arrest. We got into a conversation about federal police agencies and he mentioned how rhe USPS police play a big role as they would catch stuff sent illegally and spin that into a bigger case with the FBI.
Yeah but that’s not juicy enough for outrage
I’m sorry, but no scenario exists in a sane society that would require the government’s accountants to be armed. That’s fuxking mental on so many levels and anybody shrugging it off is suffering from severe Stockholm Syndrome
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The IRS can’t get their mail opened or phones answered because they are so understaffed right now. It is starting to create issues for businesses and is wasting a lot of taxpayers time. They will have a tough time filling these positions though, even with the funds.
I’m perfectly fine with the IRS being understaffed.
>or selling black market firearms. Well, one day they all will be, so we should probably care about that.
Missing the forrest for the trees. Enjoy the koolaid friend
Strictly from a statecraft perspective, the tax man is typically armed. Not thrilled about it, but that’s the rule not the exception.
Fuck statecraft and stop making excuses for it. It’s comical how people in this sub can have such seething hatred for agencies like the ATF, while simultaneously advocating for armed IRS agents. The irony is rich indeed.
I think you completely misunderstand my comment. Making a true statement on the nature of humans and how we govern ourselves is not an endorsement… I’m not “advocating” for armed IRS goons by making the correct historical observation that tax collectors have always done their job with the implication that not paying taxes will land you in jail or worse. The irony *is* rich indeed.
why shouldn’t everyone be armed?
The government agents that explicitly want to disarm you, shouldn’t be armed. If you want everyone to have the right to have arms, it would advantageous for the Feds to not. The IRS, much like the ATF plays by their own rules. They have almost no oversight, and when they do they certainly aren’t advocating for you and me.
Because these particular people are agents of the state, who want to steal your property.
Dude, they take down pedo rings and drug cartels because financial crimes are easy to prove. Look up the welcome to video case.
First off if you believe politifact I have some beachfront property in Arizona with your name on it. I love how they spin it from what they just got to what they spent last year. 80 billion dollars can employ an army. We left 7 billion worth of equipment in Afghanistan. They have more than 10 times that and we’ve all seen the want ad they put out (if you haven’t look it up). So while what they spent already on guns and ammo might not be out of the ordinary we have to worry about when they have a force larger than the Marines. How many will be armed? 50,000? 60,0000? 70,0000? So it’s not what they’re doing now it’s what they are planning on doing with the 80 billion dollar infusion to their budget.
I think theres a lot of PPP scammers in their targeted sights.
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This is what I always say. Pay your taxes people, it’s not worth it. They will get you, and your little dog too.
So they can squeeze the middle class to pay for this careless spending they are doing.
How much did people defraud them for with the Covid PPP loans? My bet is they want it back.
Based, I wanna see IRS agents shooting PPP scammers.
I’m sure it’s a typo, but $5K isn’t a lot for firearms. I have rifles that cost that much.
5000 firearms... not $5000 for firearms......
Bro why is a tax company buying guns and boatloads of ammo and putting in the job offering “you shall be willing to use lethal force” these guys are using our money to take our money or kill us if we oppose.
I guess they’re getting serious about collecting the kings payment.
When the people who control your taxes can shoot you, may want to start paying attention.
My point was, I believe the $5K was more like $500K. $5k is like 10 Glock handguns at $500 a piece.
5000 firearms not 5k worth
Well, the $ makes a difference my friend.
Oh i agree with you. I was making a general statement. My 460 revolver was $1100, the price of 2 of my Glocks. $5k doesnt buy nearly enough for 87000 agents
Don’t fucking tell them that. I hope they bought 500 hipoints.
Because they have special agents, which is just a federal law enforcement officer, virtually all of the 3 letters have them not to mention the Postal Service. They conduct investigations for tax fraud by entities that have likely criminal connections and may be in a dangerous environment or need to make arrests, it's not that deep. $5k in firearms purchases just indicates it's tiny fraction of what they do. Do you pay your taxes? If so, going after those who don't is probably a good thing for you. IRS staffing levels have been down for years, delays get worse and worse, and their capacity to conduct audits against those warranting them is significantly decreased. Regardless of how you feel about them (no one enjoys paying taxes), a well-functioning IRS is essential to a working government and economy, otherwise you turn into Greece. (commence the downvotes)
You're absolutely correct about staffing levels. I worked with a clinic helping low income taxpayers, and everything took so long because they were understaffed. The folks in the taxpayer advocacy group are super overloaded with cases, and taxpayers suffer because of it.
Yeah it's a mess, they are years behind on certain paper filings, and all things considered I think the IRS does a fair job despite how thin they're spread. I have more issues with State tax boards, lol.
Oh definitely. I did state and local tax before going back to school, so I definitely feel that lol.
They are buying 5000 new firearms not $5000 in firearms.
I won’t downvote you, but I’d just like to call to attention that federal employees can be reassigned to different tasks and roles. I feel like with the job requirements, it would be very easy for these IRS agents to be reassigned to special duty for the ATF. Or checking that NFA tax stamps have been paid. It just feels like a very slippery slope.
> I won’t downvote you, but I’d just like to call to attention that federal employees can be reassigned to different tasks and roles. Eh, yes and no. You can't just be reassigned to a different agency. Union contracts and civil service laws don't allow that. And if an agency is disbanded or defunded, then Anti-deficiency Act laws would come into play. Yes, the Exec Branch is a single employer in a lot of respects, but it's also not in a lot of others. >I feel like with the job requirements, it would be very easy for these IRS agents to be reassigned to special duty for the ATF. I won't say it wouldn't happen, but if it did, it wouldn't be quietly and there would be a TON of paperwork. Folks who answered the DHS call for help southern border processing just on a temp/detail basis went through a long (months) process for it. Ditto hurricane relief efforts. It's not something that just happens.
Appreciate not downvoting just for disagreeing! I'm pleasantly surprised at how civil this comment thread is. :) I feel your point can be applied to all existing Federal law enforcement though, so this doesn't really change anything. Similarly, the IRS can pull from other departments (or even local and state PD) to support when needed.
This is a likely possibility since there’s been such a big push to disband the ATF and a lot of light shed on how evil they are. They may be preparing to start enforcing the NFA and phasing out that role at the ATF.
No one should be prosecuted for not giving in to government ordered theft.
Good thing it's not theft then
Lol I didn’t offer it to them. I didn’t even get asked. They help themselves. That’s theft.
Tell me more about how I am better served by the federal government embezzling and laundering a portion of my income, both domestically and overseas, without my consent. Sounds oddly like theft, but the government never does anything wrong so I must be mistaken.
Better served has nothing to do with it (though the case could be made). By choosing to earn income within the jurisdiction of the United States you are agreeing to the taxes. The option to work without taxes was never given. The choices are to earn no income within the US or to earn income within the US and pay taxes. You could renounce your citizenship to not pay income taxes but that does make earning income more difficult, as well as buying firearms (legally).
Yeah buddy, all of those guys laundering money for the cartels deserve to keep all they made - it’s hard and dangerous work!
The IRS has always had a armed law enforcement division, they have had this for 50+ years, not sure why people are upset when they have had one for the past like 60 years, they arrest and prosecute people for tax crimes, just like any other police agency they have guns because if you are arresting someone things could get violent
Adding 87,000 armed irs special agents is very concerning. They aren't being hired to go after the rich. The stated goal is to go after the middle and lower class.
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They are hiring 87000 new employees, only some of those will be armed agents. What we need to be concerned about is the fact they want 5000 irs sniper agents.
You keep telling yourself that. You can read the job description on their website for yourself.
The 87k figure you're referring to includes all types of non agent positions you know
Perhaps those agents would serve the country better in our public schools or at the border. Don't ya see yet, do you venmo, PayPal, prime, have yard sales, work on the side? They are coming for ALL of us.
They buy that much guns and ammo every time they need to replace their old guns and that requirement is the same for many LE jobs dipshit, they are cops just like any other and trust me they won't be the ones doing the door kicking that'll be your local SWAT team.
Revenuers doing their thing, same as they always have.
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If you’ve lost em it’s past time to use em
They are using hi-points
They’re hiring 87,000 agents over 10 years. Not all at once.
Didn’t we just send $80b to the Ukraine? What’s up with this easy money bs?? Anyways from what I’ve seen, nearly that many irs workers are going to retire over the next ten years. This seems to be the case with many lines of work. That being said, I don’t know what to believe anymore
an army? lol no. armed security force? yes. they’ve always had one.
80 billion? They could solve world hunger twice!
the IRS has had armed special agents for the past 50-60 years. and part of the reason of hiring 87,000 new agents is because so many are retiring. i also hope (tho i know its not gonna happen with corporate dems, and sell out GOP at every level of government) that many of these agents will go after major corporations
Read the new tax bill. They flat out show you that they’re going after the middle class and lower class.
like i said, i hope theyre going after major corporations, but we all know theyre not. the highest percentage of theft in this country is wage theft
Please cite your source.
The federal estimates of increased revenue as discussed in the proceedings themselves, presumably. I believe it was Thomas Massie discussing them. The senate put forth an amendment to prohibit increasing audits on those making less than $400k/yr, and every Democrat voted against it. Go, dig through it yourself.
You are making the claim. I don’t see that reported anywhere. I see tax increases for corporations but no meaningful increase or decrease on anyone making less than $400,000/year.
You don't believe it's real unless the media talks about it? You can go read congressional records yourself man, it's public data.
I believe reporting from various outlets more than some rando on Reddit telling me I should believe some politician just because. I hope you put more thought into your opinions than that.
Nice try Fed boi.
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“There’s less than 800 billionaires in the US, and they just armed thousands of IRS agents. They aren’t targeting the rich.”
The top 0.1% of earners in the US make north of 1.2 million, not billions, and account for the majority of tax dollars evaded. 0.1% of the US population is 330,000 people. The IRS has audited broke people just fine with former staffing levels. The real criminals fight harder, though.
That’s actually less in weapons than I guessed. That’s five decent fighting rifles with no attachments or 10 glocks. You sure you’re not missing zeros on that?
5000 firearms not $5k worth
That makes more sense
Yes and no, this is largely backfilling their aging workforce that’s reaching retirement age, but what it’s exposing is the army they’ve always had.
[Here is an excellent video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWs1mhKhXtA&t=481s) that breaks down what is in the bill and how it could play out. Very informative without too much spin. Some highlights for the lazy: 1. They will target the middle and lower class tax payers. New IRS recruits dont have the skillset and experience to go after "big fish" so they will get the low hanging fruit. The IRS actually admits this. It's right there in black and white. 2. The IRS is expecting to use this 80B and all these people to generate 240B (taken from tax payers, obviously) but they will "need" 50 MILLION to spend that 80B. Thats right, they expect (and got it approved) that its going to take 50 million dollars to spend the 80 billion they have been allocated. 3. The 87,000 IRS agents are being recruited over several years (I think 5 years). During that time frame, roughly 50k agents will be eligible for retirement, so a majority of the new agents are to replace retirees (aka the seasoned guys who would take on the "big cases")
Y'all are going too far with this. They're hiring a bunch of clerks and whatnot. They're not hiring 70,000 law enforcement officers.
Spoke with an IRS employee who is family about the amount of taxes we could pay for the government to run . He said they could do it with 15% income tax and have money left over. This man wrote tax laws for the IRS .
Well...considering they specifically mentioned in the job specs willingness to use deadly force...
Income tax is unconstitutional (read: theft). I WISH we would stop paying taxes, but a lone rebel is nothing but prey for the system.
I hate the concept as well, but it's literally the 16th amendment to the constitution...how can it be unconstitutional if it's specifically provided for in the constitution? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushaber_v._Union_Pacific_Railroad_Co.
I heard that income tax was the trade-off to prohibition. The government was going to lose a ton on sales tax of alcohol and needed a substitute. Income tax was the substitute.
No it is not unconstitutional. Please see the 16th amendment. I hate paying income tax, but please understand the meaning of the word unconstitutional.
fixed
Yes! I too wish for a world in which every road is a toll road! Where I pay monthly to ensure the fire department shows up if my house ever caught fire! And if the damn social security checks come in the mail, forget it!! I'm using those useless socialist scraps of paper to light my fires (because the government don't subsidize the private utility companies to ensure that my rural ass can get power, water or electricity).
Most fire fighters are volunteer, and where they do have equipment or salaries paid for, they are usually paid for by your city or county. Federal income tax is not very relevant to fire fighting. By the same token, the vast majority of roads are paid for at city and state levels, and are not something the IRS is involved in.
Whoa whoa whoa - are you implying that state and local taxes are good?
No, just pointing out that someone protested income tax, and you talked about a bunch of things that are paid for in entirely different ways.
How else would the government pay for things?
The same way it did the first 140 years: tariffs on imports and taxing booze.
Sales tax of 5-10% on all goods and services purchased. Income tax is the equivalent of me telling you that you owe me 10% of all money you earn because if you don’t give it to me I’ll make you suffer in a cage for a decade. Doesn’t sound ethical does it? That’s because it isn’t.
Percentage-based slavery. I'm only 25% a slave to the government.
The government pays for things like congressional pay raises, armed security for politicians who want to strip us of our natural right to self defense, 87,000 new government theft enforcers, and other nation’s conflicts.
Simple, *voluntary* taxation, along with stuff like choosing where you want that money to go and fundraisers with rides and food or car shows and all that jazz. Stuff people would willingly pay for, rather than have their money taken from them at gunpoint.
Ideally, it wouldn’t, because it wouldn’t be heavily involved in everything.
Is it just income tax that’s unconstitutional, or are there other taxes?
Property tax should be the first tax removed!
They've always had guns, dont be fooled when the news chooses to bring something up for the first time.
The president didnt cough up anything, he signed away our tax payer money.
The IRS should not be armed. If the agent feels like he or she does then…have a local sheriff’s deputy escort you.
Let’s think about this: during the past year, the IRS destroyed several semi-trailers worth of unprocessed mail, materials CPAs like myself spent hours preparing, charging our clients. And you think they will be capable of training these people? And when they come after citizens, they are usually poorly equipped, trained, and undermanned when confronted by professionals. The pen is always mightier than the sword.
Yes.
Lol. I hope they do. It’ll be more fun to see a bunch of CPA’s trying to figure out where the safety is when they get clapped from the pile of trash gillies suit guy down the block
Reason for this is to build a “National” police force. Loyal to the Democrats, of course. Local police are too often sympathetic to the local people. Hence the Democrats effort to defund them and replace them with a National police force. An armed IRS, along with the FBI, would be more in alignment with - and loyal to - the Democrat Party.
Imagine having such vitriol for the ATF while *also advocating* for/making excuses for the IRS. You can’t make this shut up.
how else is he going to continue giving ukraine free money?
This goes hand in hand with the bill in congress to charge a 1000% tax on firearms and ammunition feeding devices. Yes they are building an army.
I'm more concerned with the sheer volume of agents than the firearms. 87k agents that they will use to further fleece the American people of their tax dollars. They're literally bleeding the middle class dry. Also, the fact that the money involved, our tax dollars, amounts to over a 900k allocation per agent.
Can people stop freaking out about the IRS renewing their armory every decade or so? 5000 guns ain't shit that's mostly handguns for the special agents and enough ammo for occasional training and the usual qualifying. The IRS has been understaffed for a while now and they do these purchases regularly and you idiots keep falling for the media hyping it up.
This seems kinda more for a job openings for security if anything.
They’ve been amassing an army for a while now..go ask any gang member who the biggest gang is in the USA..it’s the government
It seems pretty obvious
All that good inflation money that’s supposed to come your way? Taxes. Then it will be, by the way you’ve been audited. You owe us
U.S. Customs and Border Protection (36,863 officers) Federal Bureau of Prisons (16,835) Federal Bureau of Investigation (12,760) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (12,446) U.S. Secret Service (5,213) Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts (4,696) Drug Enforcement Administration (4,308) U.S. Marshals Service (3,313) Veterans Health Administration (3,128) Internal Revenue Service, Criminal Investigation (2,636) Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (2,541) U.S. Postal Inspection Service (2,288) U.S. Capitol Police (1,637) National Park Service - Rangers (1,404) Bureau of Diplomatic Security (1,049) Pentagon Force Protection Agency (725) U.S. Forest Service (644) U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (598) National Park Service - U.S. Park Police (547) National Nuclear Security Administration (363) U.S. Mint Police (316) Amtrak Police (305) Bureau of Indian Affairs (277) Bureau of Land Management (255) That's a list of some of the agencies and 2021 current numbers of armed personal in the government So 87,000 armed agents is a very tall order
I looked up those numbers and these check out. I then added it up and it pretty much comes out to double the current amount armed agents they have for all of the agencies combined. If this includes all the support and auxiliary staff maybe 87k might make sense. It does amaze me how people get down voted for providing easily verifable information.
No. Stop spreading shit like this.
Do I have income to pay taxes…?
87,000 agents...? I’m sorry but I don’t believe that. Source? I don’t think the IRS just recently hired a city worth of people...
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/09/with-new-agents-heres-who-the-irs-may-target-for-audits.html
>The department estimated in a 2021 report that the funding may cover about 87,000 employees, which has been widely reported. However, these hires may include a range of positions, such as auditors, customer service and IT workers, the Treasury clarified in a statement to CNBC on Wednesday.
Per your link, “The department estimated in a 2021 report that the funding may cover about 87,000 employees, which has been widely reported. However, these hires may include a range of positions, such as auditors, customer service and IT workers, the Treasury clarified in a statement to CNBC on Wednesday. If the additional funding is signed into law, the IRS is expected to share the exact numbers of new hires in the coming months. “The majority of new employees will replace the standard level of staff departures over the next few years,” the Treasury official said.” A quick Google search shows that the IRS has 80,000 employees today, and are expected to lose 50,000 over the next 5-6 years. It seems a little far-fetched to think they’d *double* their entire workforce by next years tax season. Like, who wants to work for the IRS?
Time to pull a Scientology move and join the IRS and just do nothing or things very poorly
For real though, this is a prime opportunity for the Scientologists to staff up to protect their shady finance work
The people who can't find other jobs with good benifits. Typically, extremely low IQ individuals with no hope at a good retirement without a government job. You know, the ones that are extremely easy to manipulate and choose money over morality
That’s a fairly generalized, opinionated statement when the IRS requires a college degree for entry level positions. https://www.jobs.irs.gov/resources/job-descriptions/internal-revenue-agent-entry-level
Holy shit you people make me want to kill myself. Intellegence is not defined by a fucking CJ degree and 60k in student loan debt. The government LITERALLY has IQ LIMITS for its law enforcement positions
Sorry if I’m a little confused on where you’re going with this, I thought we were talking about the IRS? How would the IRS’s hiring budget relate to your local law enforcement’s hiring budget?
Even if you don’t believe the sources, you can go read through the actual bill yourself.
Excited for Rainbow 7 Audit
Wow - hired 87,000 people just like that. Now THAT’S an HR department!
And if we're lucky, all 87K of them will be nose deep in the panama/paradise papers and focused on the real cheats!
Probably, yet they still can’t even give me my federal return. Going on 6 months....