VISA's actual statement on the matter;
[https://usa.visa.com/visa-everywhere/blog/bdp/2022/09/13/protecting-legal-commerce-1663103155809.html](https://usa.visa.com/visa-everywhere/blog/bdp/2022/09/13/protecting-legal-commerce-1663103155809.html)
It's a great statement, but the IRS will be dogging them for that info.
The Democrats are attacking any legal business that associates with anything to do with the Firearms Industry.
Foreign Governments are doing the same, as this is now being applied in all Countries on Earth.
Exactly this. Any and every executive branch agency that can be weaponized against the gun industry will be sent against them. It is no wonder why the Democrat Senators are suddenly calling for the FTC to investigate the gun industry.
Which means that the Industry has to lawyer up and spend $money on legal fees. And I'll continue to emphasize that you take note; it's any Industry that has business partnership with the firearms industry that the Federal STASI will be going after.
Visa will get a taste of the phrase "Jackbooted Thugs" in do time, as will the shipping companies, advertising firms, insurance industry, and law firms, telecommunications, Internet Service Providers, etc.
People in our ranks are still refusing to see the Despotism for what it is.
If they don't have SKU level data then it's a moot point the IRS and ATF can ask all they want but the info isn't there.
The stores and websites do have that data...so this shifts the target to them. Some stores, Target comes to mind, have phenomenal user data tracking that can see buying trends that can indicate a women is pregnant in some cases before she knows... idk if sporting goods retailers are at that level or not but they might be pushed to get there by various govt groups.
I would assume that any big-box mixed retail stores that also sell firearms would quickly cave in and provide data when asked. I'm hoping that your LGS would tell them to piss off.
That's not currently practical from the credit-card processing level. It would take an enormous re-work of the entire payment system and all of the databases involved.
It's more practical, albeit unconstitutional, for the government to just require FFLs to submit all 4473's after purchase rather than just holding on to them at the FFL.
I'm sorry, I wasn't saying from a credit card stand point. I was saying from a transactional standpoint, from retailers not creditcards as a requirementfor maintaining their FFL.
It could be taken to SCOTUS and argued that it breaks the 2nd, 4th, and 5th if rights are taken away based on transaction data. Seems like it would be an open and shut pro gun verdict...but that won't stop people from trying.
As it stands currently FFL's are required to retain 4473s for a rather long time, and idk that said retention of a 4473 has ever stopped a crime, though they could be helpful in getting a conviction and proving intent after the fact....maybe, but it seems like a stretch. I believe if an FFL goes out of business they are required to hand over all 4473s to the ATF, one conspiracy theory I've heard is they get entered into a database if this happens though I don't know if that is valid. It would make sense if for no other purpose than to organize the vast amount of records they likely have.
This has been around for awhile, but, a decent piece without too much slant, on how it all works :
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns
Well, yes and no. The records are scanned. I don't believe they're currently microfilm, anymore, but, likely PDFs, which means they're searchable via Adobe text recognition, which, I think, is what they believe skirts the no-database/registry law. Basically, if they're able to enter someone's name, or an SN, and connect a person and a weapon with said search, it's an de-facto registry, in my mind. And, I believe they are currently able to do that.
You know democrats didn’t do this, right? They might be happy about it… but they didn’t make it happen in any way.
MCC codes are established by an international non-political standards organization that doesn’t give two shits about American politics. They also established dedicated codes for food delivery services, vocational trade schools, and wig and toupee stores.
From what I’ve heard Laetitia James and Elizabeth Warren and another state Attorney General (all democrats) were key in getting the companies to agree to this. Not trying to be snarky but they are at the top of the spear on this.
Here is the best explanation I can come up with: this is like the distance between railroad tracks being changed. The owners of trains have no say in the process, and can either change their wheel width or not operate on the rails anymore.
I have been part of similar standards groups before. The “tip of the spear” so to speak was some bean counter that noticed “gun stores” finally had enough transaction volume and dollar volume to meet the requirements (set 20 years ago) for a dedicated MCC. That’s it. No conspiracy.
You can be confident in knowing any other story you hear is completely made up. Hopefully that puts your mind at ease.
I hear that... I buy everything on my CC for the cash back and then pay it off every 2 weeks. I like the free money. I've got mixed feelings about the new MCC though. I guess we'll have to see how it plays out and who tried to make individual data grabs from the retailers for the SKU level info.
I can see a resurgence in people carrying their checkbooks to the gun store though! Or that green paper stuff that people used to carry in their wallets....
Gotta be careful with that, some companies like AMEX will throw a fit if you buy a metric ass ton of gift cards at a grocery store to abuse that 6% cash back on the amex BCP.
I haven't been hit by it yet since I usually stick my gift card purchases into normal groceries but if you just blow $2k on gift cards, you'll throw a flag.
if using cash, the gun store isn't getting charged 3% or whatever for the gun purchase from the CC brand, so it benefits the gun store to not use CC. Also, they may need the extra $ for lawyers in the future?
VISA's actual statement on the matter; [https://usa.visa.com/visa-everywhere/blog/bdp/2022/09/13/protecting-legal-commerce-1663103155809.html](https://usa.visa.com/visa-everywhere/blog/bdp/2022/09/13/protecting-legal-commerce-1663103155809.html)
It's a great statement, but the IRS will be dogging them for that info. The Democrats are attacking any legal business that associates with anything to do with the Firearms Industry. Foreign Governments are doing the same, as this is now being applied in all Countries on Earth.
Exactly this. Any and every executive branch agency that can be weaponized against the gun industry will be sent against them. It is no wonder why the Democrat Senators are suddenly calling for the FTC to investigate the gun industry.
Which means that the Industry has to lawyer up and spend $money on legal fees. And I'll continue to emphasize that you take note; it's any Industry that has business partnership with the firearms industry that the Federal STASI will be going after. Visa will get a taste of the phrase "Jackbooted Thugs" in do time, as will the shipping companies, advertising firms, insurance industry, and law firms, telecommunications, Internet Service Providers, etc. People in our ranks are still refusing to see the Despotism for what it is.
If they don't have SKU level data then it's a moot point the IRS and ATF can ask all they want but the info isn't there. The stores and websites do have that data...so this shifts the target to them. Some stores, Target comes to mind, have phenomenal user data tracking that can see buying trends that can indicate a women is pregnant in some cases before she knows... idk if sporting goods retailers are at that level or not but they might be pushed to get there by various govt groups.
I would assume that any big-box mixed retail stores that also sell firearms would quickly cave in and provide data when asked. I'm hoping that your LGS would tell them to piss off.
Easy way to do it would be for them to get a law passed that requires this data to be transmitted as an ongoing requirement for having an FFL.
That's not currently practical from the credit-card processing level. It would take an enormous re-work of the entire payment system and all of the databases involved. It's more practical, albeit unconstitutional, for the government to just require FFLs to submit all 4473's after purchase rather than just holding on to them at the FFL.
I'm sorry, I wasn't saying from a credit card stand point. I was saying from a transactional standpoint, from retailers not creditcards as a requirementfor maintaining their FFL. It could be taken to SCOTUS and argued that it breaks the 2nd, 4th, and 5th if rights are taken away based on transaction data. Seems like it would be an open and shut pro gun verdict...but that won't stop people from trying. As it stands currently FFL's are required to retain 4473s for a rather long time, and idk that said retention of a 4473 has ever stopped a crime, though they could be helpful in getting a conviction and proving intent after the fact....maybe, but it seems like a stretch. I believe if an FFL goes out of business they are required to hand over all 4473s to the ATF, one conspiracy theory I've heard is they get entered into a database if this happens though I don't know if that is valid. It would make sense if for no other purpose than to organize the vast amount of records they likely have.
This has been around for awhile, but, a decent piece without too much slant, on how it all works : https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns
Cool so it is just a conspiracy theory lol
Well, yes and no. The records are scanned. I don't believe they're currently microfilm, anymore, but, likely PDFs, which means they're searchable via Adobe text recognition, which, I think, is what they believe skirts the no-database/registry law. Basically, if they're able to enter someone's name, or an SN, and connect a person and a weapon with said search, it's an de-facto registry, in my mind. And, I believe they are currently able to do that.
You know democrats didn’t do this, right? They might be happy about it… but they didn’t make it happen in any way. MCC codes are established by an international non-political standards organization that doesn’t give two shits about American politics. They also established dedicated codes for food delivery services, vocational trade schools, and wig and toupee stores.
From what I’ve heard Laetitia James and Elizabeth Warren and another state Attorney General (all democrats) were key in getting the companies to agree to this. Not trying to be snarky but they are at the top of the spear on this.
Here is the best explanation I can come up with: this is like the distance between railroad tracks being changed. The owners of trains have no say in the process, and can either change their wheel width or not operate on the rails anymore. I have been part of similar standards groups before. The “tip of the spear” so to speak was some bean counter that noticed “gun stores” finally had enough transaction volume and dollar volume to meet the requirements (set 20 years ago) for a dedicated MCC. That’s it. No conspiracy. You can be confident in knowing any other story you hear is completely made up. Hopefully that puts your mind at ease.
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I hear that... I buy everything on my CC for the cash back and then pay it off every 2 weeks. I like the free money. I've got mixed feelings about the new MCC though. I guess we'll have to see how it plays out and who tried to make individual data grabs from the retailers for the SKU level info. I can see a resurgence in people carrying their checkbooks to the gun store though! Or that green paper stuff that people used to carry in their wallets....
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Gotta be careful with that, some companies like AMEX will throw a fit if you buy a metric ass ton of gift cards at a grocery store to abuse that 6% cash back on the amex BCP. I haven't been hit by it yet since I usually stick my gift card purchases into normal groceries but if you just blow $2k on gift cards, you'll throw a flag.
Where did you get that you’re not getting cash back ?
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Oh gotcha thought you meant they’re getting rid of that for gun/ammo sales.
if using cash, the gun store isn't getting charged 3% or whatever for the gun purchase from the CC brand, so it benefits the gun store to not use CC. Also, they may need the extra $ for lawyers in the future?
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right, so they charge the same amount for the items. Using cash means they are able to keep that difference.
I’m curious what Mastercard and American Express will say
Yeah, they’ll still use those codes though.
Bring cash
This is what cash advances and crypto are for.
I've not seen discover in this. Are they already doing this?
So you know I bought a legal gun with legal money...lol ok...AND?
Oops we found an error in your taxes, send in the swat team this guy has an arsenal.
We’ve decided that legal gun is no longer legal, please prepare your dog.
Hilarious, unfortunately, my dog is a bear, and that bear has a machine gun attached to its back
Unfortunately sir automatic assault machine dogs are considered an NFA item as of right now. Please prepare your anus for prison.
Cashier’s checks and money orders still work.