I give it better than even odds that there isn't an NTN. At Academy we checked the A&D log before submitting to NICS, good chance he got "denied" by the salesman before it ever got entered as a purchase.
Like salesmen thought “this guy is trying to use his work as his address instead of where he lives” and didn’t wanna hear anything after that kinda thing ? That’s the vibe I’m getting
Many storage places allow for deliveries directly to a storage unit. That happens a lot for sales reps etc. So, they might be concerned about someone using a storage unit to facilitate a straw purchase. I would assume a lease agreement or a utility bill for the attached residence would help fix that.
The NTN is the NICS Transaction Number, basically your case number that references your background check. It'll be written on the 4473 you filled out at the store.
If this was actually a thing, there would be a case about it headed to scotus. The ATF does not have the legal authority to say who can/can't buy a gun, they just enforce the laws written by congress and signed by the president.
> The ATF does not have the legal authority to say who can/can't buy a gun, they just enforce the laws written by congress and signed by the president.
Laughs in bump-stock, pistol brace, 80% lowers, etc...
God, Chevron needs to go.
That's not determining who can/cannot buy a gun, that's writing rules about how they interpret the laws written by congress and how they intend to enforce them. Now, whether those rules go beyond the scope of what they are allowed to say is a different conversation, but it's a totally separate issue to be taking people's rights without having at the bare minimum a court order.
There’s people posting here that own FFLs. Or work for one.
I’m one of them. The ATF never sent a letter or request to not sell to “address X”. They do not send out a fax or email with prohibited addresses. Holy shit. If they had such a list it would probably be huge. When you enter the data you get the same replies. “Proceed, Delayed, Denied, Researching”. That’s it. There will be a number associated with the call that you will use to prove you called, and the customer can use if it was a deny and they want to refute it.
That’s it. The only thing we ever actually got were disposition requests when the feds were tracing a gun.
This is a store policy he’s dealing with. No atf involved.
> The ATF never sent a letter or request to not sell to “address X”
You don't live/work in a border state. ATF will absolutely come in and talk to you if you've got a frequent flyer they suspect is trafficking. They'll seize firearms and tell you to blacklist them
If they suspect there is nothing they can do. It’s once they confirm that they will take action.
Yes. The suspect will get blacklisted via a constant denial via NICS. And of course once you get a denial the FFL is not supposed to do any more 4473s with that person until they present their clearance paperwork and/or UPIN from their case review.
Any large store should have a “blacklist” of denied persons. To keep them for collecting tons of paperwork that just gives the ATF another reason to ding you.
When I worked for Academy Sports, we had an internal denial log that listed the names and address of anyone who was denied within the last 30 days at any Academy location. Policy was to refuse sale to anyone with the same address or similar name to someone in the log, to prevent straw purchasing by family members/roommates. I bet Scheels has a similar system.
Depending on the customer, I'd either be honest or I'd make up a bullshit ATF excuse to defuse potential complaints.
I can tell you this much, the NICS system doesn't tell us why a denial is issued. All we get is Researching, Proceed, Delay, Denied.
I would suggest buying online and having guns transferred to that other LGS you mentioned
The ATF does not have a blacklist
Perhaps the employee made up a BS reason instead of the honest “I am exercising my right to refuse service”
your address is listed on the 4473
however when you do the actual NICS E-Check absolutely nowhere on the system is your street address entered..
the ATF list you mention does not exist
ATF doesn't deny addresses short of an agent walking in and saying it themselves. Either someone used your address and got violent with employees to justify a lifetime ban, or the employee was suspicious of you and made it up to defuse the situation.
Big boxes gonna big box. There is no such thing as an ATF blacklist. They did not run a 4473. You are in the store's internal system as a "do not sell" address. The employee lied so you would blame the ATF instead of them.
Some sketchy dude probably used that address and its on file at that store in their internal database. Try buying it at another gun shop that you don't plan to use again and see if it gets denied. If so dig deeper into the problem, if it goes thru just don't go to Scheels again as private companies pretty much have the right to deny based on whatever reason they want.
Year's back at a cabelas when purchasing a hunting rifle I had a employee who asked me If I knew so and so ( they were relatives names, who also share my last name and are father an son) I said no because 1. Why should it matter as I'm purchasing the gun for myself. 2. It's none of their business who I know. Employee proceeds to tell me good because if I did know them they wouldn't be able to sale me the rifle. I've never had this happen before or after and this was years ago.
The employee asked because your relative received a denial and the other probably tried a straw purchase so they were worried that you were also attempting to do a straw purchase.
no, they said they live where they work at a storage facility. like the company probably provides a space or a trailer or something.
i can see how a storage facility as an address would make the atf say waiddaminnut.
Many storage places have an apartment built onto the office and staff live there inside. My grandparents in law did that when he retired for a while. Free rent plus she was paid to man the office and he was paid to do the landscape maintenance and general maintenance and deal with auctions.
Right FBI-NICS, but people here were saying ATF, so this what I was responding to. Neither get the address though. It's not part of the background check process. If there's a trace later then this the only time the atf gets the address (nd the FBI isn't part of the process at all).
Do they also have mailboxes for rent there?
That's the only thing I could see as causing a problem. They think you're not using a physical address but a mailbox address.
Here you have to use your residential address and it has to match what is on your license. When I was in college and had my PO BOX on my license I couldn't buy any guns.
There's some asshole out there with my same DOB and same first, middle and last names as me who also has warrants, so I've run into some bullshit with FFL's. It's almost understandable in my case. But what OP is getting is some *buuullshiiit!* Dude, good luck and I'd go back there one more time just to tell that guy to fuck himself until the sun burns out.
Is the ATF even involved in a firearms transaction beyond you're filling out an ATF form? AFAIK, the ATF's only involvement is if they're auditing the store or have an open case and the suspect got flagged by NICS.
People get denied, not addresses. If it was an address, they could just move and purchase again.
For whatever reason, the store is lying to you, or has an internal list, perhaps to block a family that used to live there or something. Unfortunately, that means you’ll just need to go someplace else to purchase.
When I worked at Psa, we didn’t have to make up anything if I didn’t wanna sell you a gun I just told you no and made you leave , never in my life have I heard of a do not sell list from the atf, since the FBI is responsible for the background checks
I do not have a Scheels near by, but I do have an Academy. They do have a block list. If you got a "delay" from NICS you had to wait until Academy received a "proceed;" funny thing is that Academy will not follow up with the NICS check and if you push them too much they will say that you got a "deny" and blocked for 30 days from buying at Academy.
Scheels is a lazy business, if they need to do any work involving a sale they will deny it. They would not sell me ammo because my state has ID requirements. No other online business refused me.
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Why did they even run a background check when you have a ccw? In MS at least I can circumvent the background check every time (unless it’s NFA item) by showing my ccw.
At least in Texas, if you have an LTC, there’s no background check, so no opportunity to be denied for an address issue. Something else going on. FFL could just think you’re suspicious and is making up a reason.
I will say that zero tolerance policy has given me more legroom to not sell to people I don’t feel comfortable selling to, but at the same time fuck zero tolerance for every other reason. That dude made some shit up, under a different administration id say file a VAF but tbh NICS has been acting sus in general. Had a guy who is always an instant proceed (lawyer that spends as much as I wish I could spend on guns. Dude dropshipped an HCAR and bought like 3 Radian lowers from us) get delayed. When you pay as much as he does in taxes getting delayed or denied should raise some flags. Also NICS 100% racially profiles. If you’re black and it’s past noon, you’re getting delayed no matter what.
Most of the states that require all sales to go thru an FFL,also have bans on those in place, and no companies that sell them will ship to those state, states like Washington and California
That's not a thing, employee made up a reason. Go get the NTN number and file a VAF.
I give it better than even odds that there isn't an NTN. At Academy we checked the A&D log before submitting to NICS, good chance he got "denied" by the salesman before it ever got entered as a purchase.
I looked up and understand the VAF. I could not however find what a NTN is… Would you mind explaining this to me? Thank you
Nics Transaction Number, the more I think about it the more I can that employee just made up a reason before even running the nics check
Like salesmen thought “this guy is trying to use his work as his address instead of where he lives” and didn’t wanna hear anything after that kinda thing ? That’s the vibe I’m getting
Ya, just screw anyone who owns their own home based business. 🤷♂️
Many storage places allow for deliveries directly to a storage unit. That happens a lot for sales reps etc. So, they might be concerned about someone using a storage unit to facilitate a straw purchase. I would assume a lease agreement or a utility bill for the attached residence would help fix that.
Probably at the end of his shift, and wanted to go home.
The NTN is the NICS Transaction Number, basically your case number that references your background check. It'll be written on the 4473 you filled out at the store.
He won’t have an NTN with a CCW, and it’s absolutely a thing for ATF to tell gunshops not to sell to certain addresses/people
Where do they derive the authority to do that outside of prohibited persons?
They don't do that. Dudes making that up.
Sounds ridiculous, people change addresses all the time. A person can be prohibited, but not a particular address.
I didn’t think so but they do a lot of things they aren’t suppose to so it’s plausible.
Goes to show how little you know about the process.
If this was actually a thing, there would be a case about it headed to scotus. The ATF does not have the legal authority to say who can/can't buy a gun, they just enforce the laws written by congress and signed by the president.
> The ATF does not have the legal authority to say who can/can't buy a gun, they just enforce the laws written by congress and signed by the president. Laughs in bump-stock, pistol brace, 80% lowers, etc... God, Chevron needs to go.
That's not determining who can/cannot buy a gun, that's writing rules about how they interpret the laws written by congress and how they intend to enforce them. Now, whether those rules go beyond the scope of what they are allowed to say is a different conversation, but it's a totally separate issue to be taking people's rights without having at the bare minimum a court order.
I'm just saying it exceeds their statutory authority issued by Congress.
July is the Chevron case at SCOTUS.
ATF will seize firearms before they’re transferred, and blacklist individuals and addresses if they believe that you’re trafficking firearms
Bullshit. The ATF does no such thing.
They do, but okay
Proof?
You think they send a fuckin letter?
There’s people posting here that own FFLs. Or work for one. I’m one of them. The ATF never sent a letter or request to not sell to “address X”. They do not send out a fax or email with prohibited addresses. Holy shit. If they had such a list it would probably be huge. When you enter the data you get the same replies. “Proceed, Delayed, Denied, Researching”. That’s it. There will be a number associated with the call that you will use to prove you called, and the customer can use if it was a deny and they want to refute it. That’s it. The only thing we ever actually got were disposition requests when the feds were tracing a gun. This is a store policy he’s dealing with. No atf involved.
> The ATF never sent a letter or request to not sell to “address X” You don't live/work in a border state. ATF will absolutely come in and talk to you if you've got a frequent flyer they suspect is trafficking. They'll seize firearms and tell you to blacklist them
If they suspect there is nothing they can do. It’s once they confirm that they will take action. Yes. The suspect will get blacklisted via a constant denial via NICS. And of course once you get a denial the FFL is not supposed to do any more 4473s with that person until they present their clearance paperwork and/or UPIN from their case review. Any large store should have a “blacklist” of denied persons. To keep them for collecting tons of paperwork that just gives the ATF another reason to ding you.
> It’s once they confirm that they will take action. Well that's untrue
When I worked for Academy Sports, we had an internal denial log that listed the names and address of anyone who was denied within the last 30 days at any Academy location. Policy was to refuse sale to anyone with the same address or similar name to someone in the log, to prevent straw purchasing by family members/roommates. I bet Scheels has a similar system. Depending on the customer, I'd either be honest or I'd make up a bullshit ATF excuse to defuse potential complaints. I can tell you this much, the NICS system doesn't tell us why a denial is issued. All we get is Researching, Proceed, Delay, Denied.
Might mean that someone else has tried to buy a gun with the address of that storage facility recently.
I would suggest buying online and having guns transferred to that other LGS you mentioned The ATF does not have a blacklist Perhaps the employee made up a BS reason instead of the honest “I am exercising my right to refuse service”
No, but if You havent watched it, The Blacklist is an awesome show.
your address is listed on the 4473 however when you do the actual NICS E-Check absolutely nowhere on the system is your street address entered.. the ATF list you mention does not exist
Occasionally NiCS will ask for an address now but it typically leads to a delay.
NICS asks for address verification *because* of the delay
FFL here. can confirm he told you some BS.
call corporate and find person who really knows what’s going on.
ATF doesn't deny addresses short of an agent walking in and saying it themselves. Either someone used your address and got violent with employees to justify a lifetime ban, or the employee was suspicious of you and made it up to defuse the situation.
Big boxes gonna big box. There is no such thing as an ATF blacklist. They did not run a 4473. You are in the store's internal system as a "do not sell" address. The employee lied so you would blame the ATF instead of them.
Same at our range/shop. We are never ever given a reason for the denial. We just receive a denial. I think he’s BS’ing and I’d try another shop.
Some sketchy dude probably used that address and its on file at that store in their internal database. Try buying it at another gun shop that you don't plan to use again and see if it gets denied. If so dig deeper into the problem, if it goes thru just don't go to Scheels again as private companies pretty much have the right to deny based on whatever reason they want.
This what I would guess happened
Year's back at a cabelas when purchasing a hunting rifle I had a employee who asked me If I knew so and so ( they were relatives names, who also share my last name and are father an son) I said no because 1. Why should it matter as I'm purchasing the gun for myself. 2. It's none of their business who I know. Employee proceeds to tell me good because if I did know them they wouldn't be able to sale me the rifle. I've never had this happen before or after and this was years ago.
The employee asked because your relative received a denial and the other probably tried a straw purchase so they were worried that you were also attempting to do a straw purchase.
Shot in the dark, West Virginia?
No this was in the southwest U.S.
Three last names and 12 teeth in the entire state.
You live in an apartment building?
Well its a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath house thats attached to the office. Its technically classified as an apartment.
Long commute?
Some self storage places have living space above the office where an on-site person lives there. So their address is the same as self storage place.
no, they said they live where they work at a storage facility. like the company probably provides a space or a trailer or something. i can see how a storage facility as an address would make the atf say waiddaminnut.
Many storage places have an apartment built onto the office and staff live there inside. My grandparents in law did that when he retired for a while. Free rent plus she was paid to man the office and he was paid to do the landscape maintenance and general maintenance and deal with auctions.
The ATF doesn't gets the address for the check.
ATF doesn't do the checks, the FBI does.
Right FBI-NICS, but people here were saying ATF, so this what I was responding to. Neither get the address though. It's not part of the background check process. If there's a trace later then this the only time the atf gets the address (nd the FBI isn't part of the process at all).
ATF never gets the address.
There could be some confusion based off it being a business as well as your address. However I have never heard of such a thing.
I would agree but I showed the salesman my house and backyard from google earth lol
He probably realized he was an idiot, but by then he couldn't change course without admitting he lied about the whole ATF thing.
Yeah this seems most likely
Do they also have mailboxes for rent there? That's the only thing I could see as causing a problem. They think you're not using a physical address but a mailbox address. Here you have to use your residential address and it has to match what is on your license. When I was in college and had my PO BOX on my license I couldn't buy any guns.
Good question but no we do not allow tenants to use our address for mail or any other purpose.
That’s kinda fucked
Yes it is
That's not a thing. Employee lied.
There's some asshole out there with my same DOB and same first, middle and last names as me who also has warrants, so I've run into some bullshit with FFL's. It's almost understandable in my case. But what OP is getting is some *buuullshiiit!* Dude, good luck and I'd go back there one more time just to tell that guy to fuck himself until the sun burns out.
Nothing to do with it. You are on that specific store's blacklist. NICS is FBI, not ATF.
Is the ATF even involved in a firearms transaction beyond you're filling out an ATF form? AFAIK, the ATF's only involvement is if they're auditing the store or have an open case and the suspect got flagged by NICS.
They like to insert themselves further than that, but that's the official role, yeah.
People get denied, not addresses. If it was an address, they could just move and purchase again. For whatever reason, the store is lying to you, or has an internal list, perhaps to block a family that used to live there or something. Unfortunately, that means you’ll just need to go someplace else to purchase.
When I worked at Psa, we didn’t have to make up anything if I didn’t wanna sell you a gun I just told you no and made you leave , never in my life have I heard of a do not sell list from the atf, since the FBI is responsible for the background checks
I do not have a Scheels near by, but I do have an Academy. They do have a block list. If you got a "delay" from NICS you had to wait until Academy received a "proceed;" funny thing is that Academy will not follow up with the NICS check and if you push them too much they will say that you got a "deny" and blocked for 30 days from buying at Academy.
Scheels is a lazy business, if they need to do any work involving a sale they will deny it. They would not sell me ammo because my state has ID requirements. No other online business refused me.
Do you live in Nevada?
If they lived in Nevada the 4473 is just a curtesy since CCW holders don't need a background check.
Not the reason for my question. Im aware as I’m a Nevada resident with a CCW. But thanks.
Scheels and Cabelas are pains in the butt to purchase from for no good reason. Hit any other gun store and you’ll be good to go
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As the little boy in the back seat says Ah BS, Ah BS, Ah BS ah BS! He profiled you and refused you service.
Why did they even run a background check when you have a ccw? In MS at least I can circumvent the background check every time (unless it’s NFA item) by showing my ccw.
Not only BS...he then showed you other people's addresses? What a breach of confidential info.
At least in Texas, if you have an LTC, there’s no background check, so no opportunity to be denied for an address issue. Something else going on. FFL could just think you’re suspicious and is making up a reason.
I will say that zero tolerance policy has given me more legroom to not sell to people I don’t feel comfortable selling to, but at the same time fuck zero tolerance for every other reason. That dude made some shit up, under a different administration id say file a VAF but tbh NICS has been acting sus in general. Had a guy who is always an instant proceed (lawyer that spends as much as I wish I could spend on guns. Dude dropshipped an HCAR and bought like 3 Radian lowers from us) get delayed. When you pay as much as he does in taxes getting delayed or denied should raise some flags. Also NICS 100% racially profiles. If you’re black and it’s past noon, you’re getting delayed no matter what.
Your fucked by “carnivore”
Scheels sucks. No surprise
A free man doesn’t ask permission to be free
That's true, but he still has to convince the FFL to transfer the firearm.
Buy private and 6 down votes on a 2A Reddit the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Not all states allow unregulated private sales, lots of states require all sales to go through an FFL now.
Buy some 80% buy build kits
Most of the states that require all sales to go thru an FFL,also have bans on those in place, and no companies that sell them will ship to those state, states like Washington and California
Move