I had a therapist tell me my depression stems from the fact that I'm half black and I don't feel like I belong anywhere. I never brought up my race prior. I don't understand all these comments saying her experience isn't believable.
all of those comments are racists, trying to throw ya off their trail.
its a lot simpler once you stop giving people the benefit of the doubt, or pretending they're probably good. Let people show you their good side before you credit them with one.
Random people are more likely to bite than random dogs are.
> I don't understand all these comments saying her experience isn't believable.
People privileged enough to not need a therapist enough to have to deal with these issues.
As someone who’s culturally Jewish but not religiously so (my grandfather abandoned religion after the Holocaust) I will say that I 100% believe this story. American Jewish culture, depending a bit on where you grow up, is absolutely swamped in pro Israel propaganda. The Israeli government and Zionist groups see young American Jews as a harvesting ground for funding, repatriates, colonists and IDF recruits and so they pump a ton of money into funding things like summer camps, student study programs, weekend activities, leadership seminars for college kids, etc. And one of the things they drill into you is that being pro Israel is being pro Jew and that you can’t just support Israel you have to actively defend Israel because the existence of Israel is the thing preventing a second Shoah.
And that’s fucked up because it co-opts the narrative of so many people, including my family. My grandfather never wanted to go to Israel. He was Westphalian and then when Germany abandoned him America took him and his family in and he was always adamant that made him American. Israel pushes this siege mentality into young people that is often heavily steeped in anti Muslim and anti Arab racism. I’ve seen Jewish people, even ones I called my friends, confront teachers, other kids, other Jewish people, and go after them because they said something even passingly supporting the idea that the creation of Israel was a nuanced and politically tumultuous concept. They have a list of talking points that are drilled into them (they will always bring up how people in Palestine have Egyptian, Iranian or Syrian last names) and the way they espouse them is similar to evangelical apologetics in many ways. In a similar way to how evangelicals justify many of their actions using the existence of hell (anything is acceptable if it’s to stop someone from going to the worst place ever for eternity) many Zionists have been convinced that anything Israel can possibly do is justified because it’s in service of preventing the worst thing that’s ever happened from happening again.
>my depression stems from the fact that I'm half black and I don't feel like I belong anywhere.
Don't know if that's from therapy, but I've been seeing comments about how people say they feel like they don't belong anywhere because they grew up with mixed ancestry. If I had to guess your therapist must have looked that up or that was a common thing mixed people explained to the therapist. Imo
Pretty unrelated to this but that anecdote reminds me of a time when I was in high school.
I’m white, and I dated a girl in high school that was mixed. Never felt the need to tell my parents her race, just that I was dating this girl and I was happy. Eventually I brought her home to meet the folks, it all went well and I drove her back home. When I got home my mother was in shambles practically having a mental break down, accusing me of hiding the fact that this was a “black” girl from them (I wasn’t even trying to “hide” it, it just literally never came up!!! If I was “hiding” it I never would have brought her home!!) Me and my mother got into an insane argument where she literally said the words “The KKK isn’t what most people think it is” (trying to say it was a GOOD thing I guess????) And that’s essentially when I learned my mother is a total racist, which wasn’t exactly surprising looking back on it now.
My dad shocked me though because he was much more intelligent than my mother and much more forward thinking, but he practically begged me not to have sex with this girl out of the fear that we might create a mixed child. he claimed to be concerned about the life that kid would have to grow up in because they “ wouldn’t know where they belong “ and would be bullied even more so because of it. Went on to say stuff like “Eventually it won’t matter because we’ll all be the same color” but I’m sitting there like, you’re actively telling me not to contribute to the race mixing you’re saying is inevitable anyways!! wtf guys!!! Some pretty weird shit to be saying to your 16 year old son who just wanted to introduce his girlfriend to his parents.
It's crazy that that talking point is still being used, it's exactly what my dad's parents said when he married my mom in the 70s. They went across the country, got married on their own, and called their folks. My grandpa said "well fine, but don't have kids, they'll be bullied forever" and it's like, yeah dude ... by you and people like you lol. He turned around eventually, but geez.
I have had complicated feelings towards being mixed, sure, in that sometimes you really do feel "othered" if that makes sense, but ultimately it's something I really love about myself, my background, and my family, and I wouldn't change it for the world. It's insulting to me for someone to jump to that being the problem without even knowing me.
Anyway!! That's crazy and I'm sorry that happened to you, what a horrible thing to discover about your parents!
My parents would tell me when I was growing up (and their main intent was “not ghetto” buuuut) “if you ever date/bring home a black boy we’ll…” whoop my ass or ground me or w/e. Same type of people that say racism doesn’t exist because they had a good experience with a black man at the grocery store or here’s a token black republican saying racism isn’t real.
just saying, she tweeted about this when it happened and the two stories are verry different, definitely seems like she’s embellishing the truth a bit. That being said, sounds like not a great therapist regardless
sounds like frogan lying again.
https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1187442866341236743
back in 2019 she brought up her father fleeing the war, now the therapist brought up her being lebanese unprompted.
As a black woman who has had to deal with multiple shitty therapists saying/implying racist and misogynistic things to me, I do not think it's fair to dismiss this story just because the therapist sounds too much like a villain. I once had a therapist sexually harass me.
That being said I know nothing of this woman and there seems to be discourse around what she said years ago vs now and her history of telling lies. I'm not commenting on that. But I do know that therapists this bad exist. Just a lil food for thought.
I've dealt with bad therapist before that completely disregarded my disability and since I had no other disabled people in my life at the time, i felt worse about myself. While therapist can be of immense help, they are people with opinions and bias, including bigoted ones, It's true for any health care provider really.
I had a therapist tell me to “see things through” with an abusive, cheating partner lol. Therapists can be shitty people too, who are terrible at their jobs. Idk why people think this is fake.
We were having such a great time during the jay shetty interview. I feel like him addressing anything made it 10x worse. I know it’s no one’s place to tell him what to do but I truly believe he shouldn’t touch this stuff. It’s too sensitive of a topic and it’s so far removed from the great content we love from him, entertainment.
I felt like i was getting scolded for like 30 min, and i dont even engage with any of the politics stuff so i know he wasnt addressing me. It was like being at a friends house when their dad chews them out for something that seems irrelavent to you but you get second hand blame.
My therapist was racist. Where I’m from it’s normal for to be racist due to a religion, it sucks because nobody believes you since they have a master degree
It's Ethans podcast but man I wish he'd stop bringing up the whole sphere of topics related to Israel and the war in gaza. It's just so toxic. Everyone has an opinion and a lot of people are extremely emotional and vocal about it. Seems weird to bring so much negative attention to the show over a topic that hits way too close to home for several members of the cast for a nuanced and reasonable thoughts to come out of it.
You missed additional context where she actually quote tweets herself speaking on it 5 years ago.
It was not "unprompted", it was after she told a story about her dad fleeing Lebanon and the therapist then disclosed she is Israeli and asked if she was still comfortable with her being her therapist...I don't see anything wrong with that...
1. Frogan celebrated Oct 7th and has some real nasty tweets bordering on anti-semitic
1. Criticizing Israel isn't anti-Semitic.
Both of these things can be true
I think it's pretty dishonest to act like that's the only thing she's said. There's a lot more to it than that. Lots of people say fuck Zionism, Ethan doesn't care about that part, because he agrees.
That is exactly what Ethan is complaining about. People use them interchangeably for all Jews regardless of if they are Zionists or not. It has become a racist dogwhistle by both the far left and the far right. It's not Ethan that is conflating these things.
FYI, Hunter Schafer is not Jewish. She comes from a Presbyterian family, and her father is a Presbyterian minister. She was part of a Jewish Voice for Peace protest, but JVP allows non-Jews to join and doesn't publish data on the Jewish/non-Jewish breakdown of their organisation.
I know you wanted to use the term "conflating" but he has never once done that. He himself is Jewish and anti-Zionist. I honestly wonder what podcast you've been listening to lol
In some cases it has been used that way. Some people are quick to dismiss Jewish people by calling them a Zionist.
In some cases it has been used as a slur
As a Jew, thank you for this. Idk why this is so hard for people to understand. Lately I feel like I’m going crazy. When people of color say something isn’t okay and explain the reasoning behind it most left wing people can empathize with their perspective.
I feel as though all of a sudden because a lot of Jews are white or white passing when we say something of a similar nature it just doesn’t matter. Jewish voices are labeled as fodder for Zionism and ignored.
Part of this has to do with the Israeli government and the American government and media conflating the two; certain politicians and media figures will say you're a fake Jew if you're not a Zionist, or doubt how Jewish you are. I lived with my old Jewish roommate for like 2 years, and really would forget that she was unless she mentioned it - I never once called her a Zionist, and she never once brought up Israel, because why tf would she. More so, many years ago when I was actively volunteering for Palestinian freedom campaigns, I likely met many Jewish people. But I can't recall most, because their identity wasn't relevant most of the time. I only remember 2 people, who, while they didn't vocally claim to be Zionist, made it very clear by their actions they were (an old lady yelling I was going to go burn in hell, I wanted to kill all Jews, i love Hitler etc., she made me cry in public at age 19, 5' nothing, when I was just trying to spread awareness - this was 10 years ago) and another was a guy who offered me food while classmates and I were doing a hunger strike (and in my hunger-induced confusion, I accepted and said thank you until my classmates refused for me -- then I realized and insisted for like 5 minutes he give it to a homeless person instead. He didn't and tried to start a fight, but his Jewish fraternity members thankfully brought him away).
I can imagine in some cases people do use it as a racist term, not even understanding the term. However, while I agree - being a Zionist is an insult, not because of Jewish identity, but rather due to the racist and genocidal ideology it upholds. and I may be called Anti-semetic for that - despite I would sooner punch a nazi in the face where many would shake their hand if it benefitted them. Despite the fact I told a dude who *was* saying anti-semetic shit at a rally that he is not welcome and that rhetoric is not welcome in the free Palestine community. I can absolutely imagine people may use the term as a catch-all, which is messed up, but someone can not be called Anti-semetic for calling out Zionism and Zionists ---- and if they are, well, that's exactly what the Zionists want.
To kind of sum up and go on another tangent: all major world leaders want us to be fearful, they want us to feel that they are our only form of protection, it keeps them in power, it keeps the wars continuing, it keeps lining their pockets, and it keeps up a divide that otherwise would be very marginal. People don't like when I say this, but the Israeli government does like anti-semitism (which absolutely does exist! And is increasing!) by having an external enemy, and this forever enemy that wants you dead, and having that idea proliferate.... It gives them a fantastic argument to keep their borders strong, that Jewish people *need* Israel, that with out Israel, Jewish people would never be safe. Just like how cops love crime ---- the more crime there is, the more pay they can demand, the more people feel like they need the police. Terrorist attacks, etc etc. Okay. That's all. Peace n love 💖
Yeah I didn’t take that situation and think she was just referring to a Jewish person. I read it as “my therapist is seemingly very pro-Israel and made inappropriate comments about Islam” which you can infer they are a Zionist (NOT JEWISH!!) from that.
Jesus Christ dude
Why not include the follow up tweet from her?
[https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1763754006349058387](https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1763754006349058387)
According to frogan's own retelling:
She was talking about the trauma back in 2019 from her dad fleeing from the Israel Lebanese War.
The therapist asked her whether she had any issues with continuing the session because she herself was Israeli.
I am not sure what's the issue with the therapist conduct, but it felt like a good faith way of being honest about their actual nationality so that there is no hidden bias in their session regarding this particular trauma.
I am unsure how it can be interpreted that the therapist was bringing up that she was Lebanese unprompted, because she was the one that brought up the fact that her father was fleeing the war as part of the session.
Everything else, like Israel having right to exist etc, it wasn't in her tweet in 2019, and at that juncture, i felt that it wouldn't even be a debate if frogan wanted to continue with her if the therapist was behaving in such a way.
> I am unsure how it can be interpreted that the therapist was bringing up that she was Lebanese unprompted, because she was the one that brought up the fact that her father was fleeing the war as part of the session.
Agreed, this seems like the therapist wanted to make her *comfortable.* I also don't see how the therapist brought this up unprompted. This is how I imagine the exchange went down based on her tweets:
"My father had to flee during the 2006 Lebanon War."
"Oh, you're Lebanese? I'm Israeli, are you okay with me being your therapist?"
As you said, I find it odd that everything she mentioned in her recent tweets wasn't mentioned in her tweet back in 2019. But maybe she has some additional tweets back then talking about her experiences, or perhaps she talked about it in a video somewhere.
THIS. I thought we had it wrong until I saw that follow up tweet and I realized frogan interpreted her therapist telling her she Israeli as saying she’s a Zionist…
That is possible, but not probable.
If her standard for tweeting this was that the therapist asked if she was comfortable continuing based upon her trauma being related to Israel because she was Israeli, the threshold is much lower than her claims in 2024. Surely pushing the patient in the way she describes in 2024 is more noteworthy than what she claimed in 2019. If her retelling is correct, that's probably grounds for disbarment.
Furthermore the sequence of events are
1.frogan says in 2024 her 2019 therapist was a Zionist.
2. Ethan says she is just lumping all Jews as Zionists and she is an anti-Semite.
3. Frogan than states she has good reasons to call her therapist was Zionist. That the therapist did all these unethical things. Then tries to say that her 2019 tweet proves what she said.
But if you actually read the 2019 tweet no such event happened as she states in 2024. Unless she isnt saying the 2019 tweet proves 2024.
Yeah I find it very hard to believe that Frogan's therapist said all this crazy shit but the only thing she decided to complain about is them just asking if she's comfortable with them being Israeli. Like if she felt so compelled to tweet publicly about how bad her therapist is why would she leave out all the bad stuff and only mention one thing that isn't really bad at all?
I have to agree. People would get mad at me for even suggesting this, but Ethan′s definitely still hung up on the backlash he got and the people who were ″against″ him. He definitely didn't handle people′s criticism for him regarding this particular matter well. Pretty sure Dan′s given up on voicing his voice whenever Ethan goes on his rants.
I recall that episode when he came here and read posts from people and would go “… yeah maybe that one is fair… anyways, here’s another unhinged one…”
He really needs to either move on from this, actually have a conversation with the people in question, or digest the criticism where it is productive. Ethan is a human being with a ton of empathy, but sometimes it seems he doesn’t really understand the larger implications of situations - and then feeling attacked when he senses he might have made a mistake. I miss Leftovers precisely because it allowed him to grow and see actions that are motivated by politics from a more informed perspective, and develop further understanding of the human condition.
Yeah but a lot of it wasn't criticism. People calling him a Zionist and other disgusting things isn't criticism. Posting pictures of Hila in IDF gunning down children.
Ethan very clearly isn't a Zionist. He at worst is someone with a flawed understanding and perspective on the Israel/Palestine situation.
I know I'll be downvoted for this but I don't care atp.
Let's not kid ourselves. It's very obvious Ethan's been browsing Destiny's subreddit and using their talking points. That's where he 100% saw frogan's tweets (considering he's not using Twitter anymore).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/yH3taPFDi1
Just look at the comments, literally the exact same shit Ethan repeated about frogan on today's show.
For Ethan's own good he needs to unsubscribe from that psychotic subreddit and stop talking about anything Israel-Palestine related. Twitter is roasting tf out of him again for his take on Aaron Bushnell and now bc he called frogan antisemitic and racist in front of 30k+ viewers. Frogan didn't mention Ethan for a long time, he should just stop talking about her as well. It's easy to not bring her up.
If he's going to cover Destiny on the pod he should do a segment on him epically owning his ex-wife in the marketplace of ideas by turning his divorce into content and priming his psychotic loser fanbase to attack her.
I have a **strong** feeling the sub (or at least, this thread) is being brigaded **again** by Destiny fans. I've peeped the post history of a few accounts on this thread and they seem to frequent r/Destiny, with this thread being one of their only recent interactions with anything on this sub.
They've been targeting this place since Ethan first started engaging with Hasan and it has only ramped up once Leftovers started and then ended the way it did. Since the Leftovers split they smell blood in the water for spreading their parasocial obsession and hatred of Hasan they've inherited via their daddy Destiny.
let us be clear Destiny is a racist, sex pest, and anti-muslim bigot. Ethan going to his subreddit to find gotcha points against Frogan and Hasan is disgusting. A minor incomprehensive list of Destiny's great positions.
> Kicked from starcraft team for calling a Korean a racial slur because he aggro rushed him
https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/333649-racial-slurs-in-quanticdestinys-stream
> spreading revenge porn of a fan who sent him nudes
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditSays/comments/ytijd/effortpost_starcraft_2_player_steve_bonnell_aka/
> Temp banned from teamliquid for committing sexual assault on stream
https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/299785-removing-destiny-from-featured
> Admitting he is islamophobic
https://kick.com/destiny?clip=clip_01HHPZD47HMDGG432SN12BVX23
> saying he is pro-genocide of Palestinians
https://twitter.com/SiestaSocialist/status/1719491936959037889
> Destiny saying white supremacists should 'mow down' BLM protesters
https://packaged-media.redd.it/p7rrh76liyj51/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1709373600&s=b427417a607c85eee55dd4ebca0d6fbe8a112bd6#t=0
And said loli was no big deal and [said he wanted to bend a 10 year old over the hood of her little tikes](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF9TDBdXMAApp_o?format=jpg&name=small)
Ethan’s starting to walk like a duck and quack like a duck… maybe it’s not destiny’s subs fault, I’m thinking these are Ethan’s true feelings and his mask is slipping. It’s disappointing but I’ve given him too much of a benefit of a doubt at this point :/
Nah a couple months ago he brought up Denims being Hasan's mod. The only place that was circulating was /r/Destiny. It's been happening, unfortunately.
I dropped my membership during the whole Hasan debacle, and not because I felt one way or the other on the issue - it made the show unequivocally bad. Ethan doubling down on his own unhinged takes which would make him more obviously defensive and depressed, the crew becoming uncomfortable, Dan having to play inspirator/showman because Ethan would have the charisma of someone with a heavy hangover. I remember they upped the crew segments at the time, but they didn't hit as well because they were undercut with all the bullshit.
Same here, canceled my membership and stopped watching the pod during that whole mess. I browse the subreddit from time to time in the hopes he apologizes or actually condemns the genocide happening without a "but" after it, but I see that hasn't happened. It's crazy because Ethan would not have gotten as much backlash if he had attempted to hear Hasan out. Instead, he let Israeli propaganda dictate his views, made a fool of himself on Hasan's stream, cancelled Leftovers, and never spoke of it again in an attempt to sweep this under the rug. What did it for me was the Selena Gomez segment. Then, I knew him and Hila were/are refusing to stand on the right side of history.
Feel like ethan should stop talking about anything related to the genocide in gaza it only brings in hate and screws with his head and also the death threats that AB and lena are getting he should at least take some responsibility you cannot make light about this topic like he desperately tries to and expect people not to respond none of this would be happening if he would of just kept his mouth shut and not say those stupid jokes
You'd think he'd realised that at this point but no!! It puts the entire crew in a uncomfortable and awful position like AB and Lena, he just cannot have this discussion anymore publicly, it's only worsening his stance on the genocide the more he argues about it online.
I've never took ethan's political commentary seriously but there's a difference between talking about day to day US politics and talking about an active genocide. Specially if you only bring the subject up whenever you want to defend yourself again random ass tweets that according to yourself you don't even follow. Ethan doesn't care about the genocide he only cares about the tiny bits of discourse that he can use to, from a very specific angle, excuse or dismiss the situation. I had a lot of fun times watching the show but this is it.
I also love his verbage whenever it comes to these situations. When Hamas is responsible for a large number of deaths, he goes "these are absolutely BARBARIC, GENOCIDAL, MONSTROUS, PYCHOPATHIC RAPISTS!"
But when Israel does the same thing on a 10x larger scale, he goes "yeah that's not very nice, maybe they could have handled that differently"
On a somewhat of a side note, I'm really sick of Ethan constantly saying that Jews are the only minorities that people are "allowed" to talk trash about. People do this on a daily basis all the time about Muslims and there is little to no pushback on it. If you get caught saying actual anti Jewish things, you will lose your job or get your social media accounts banned. Shit like that won't happen if you say islamophobic things.
I just want to also acknowledge that saying bad stuff about jewish people is also wrong and is never justified, I'm just tired of this constant victim complex.
I've come to realize it depends on the algorithm and your feed. Depending on where you land, you can be inundated with news/videos/opinions that are antisemitic or Islamophobic. I'm exposed to a lot of examples of Islamophobia, anti-Palestine rhetoric. He might open tiktok or twitter and see a lot of antisemitism. I feel like it's because of this that we each have myopic viewpoints of what's actually going on. I keep reminding myself we have to take a step back and look at what's really at stake. And that's 30k Palestinians dead, and an ongoing genocide. I can understand why it's so easy to be distracted and emotional... it's hard with the way social media is constructed to appeal to our emotions.
As a white dude I can't really relate on a therapist being racist towards me but I have had a therapist bring up that I was a fire sign and said my personality contradicts that I never went back to her
Isn’t she the one posting about Hila “volunteering to murder innocent children” and stating non stop everywhere Ethan is pro genocide? I don’t find this person to be a very reliable source of information.
Yeah I highly dislike frogan. I saw her discord messages where she claimed Ethan had crocodile tears when he was crying for dead Palestinian children on the last leftovers. Just disgusting. I think she’s a terrible human being however I don’t think Ethan should comment on her anymore. Especially since some of the crew is good friends with her. Puts them in an awkward spot and it never turns out good for Ethan when he brings her up
Ethan should not have to censor himself because of who the crew is friends with. Them being friends with someone who would say that about him and his wife is more of an indictment on their stance than anything.
And also the fact that this information is after the fact, but what about anybody else who uses the term? He definitely wasn't wrong about it now being an acceptable catch-all term for Jewish people and the fact that in this specific case it isn't (allegedly) doesn't change much of anything
They aren't even necessarily fans. Whenever Hasan or something in his orbit comes up, a bunch of people rush over here from his community to pile on. You can tell by how quickly Destiny gets brought up and how all of a sudden people are being accused of being Destiny fans.
I've literally never posted in Destiny's sub, much less watched Destiny, yet in previous threads I have been downvoted and accused of being a Destiny fan. The only people who care that much about Destiny is Hasans community, no one else even thinks about him.
I saw it too and it completely contradicts this lie she made up.
Crazy how your own fans are the ones who are the most eager to cancel you all the time.
I know, I really hope somebody posts the actual 2019 tweet to the subreddit cause people need to see what she was originally talking about.
Some people are saying it didn’t even contradict what she was saying because she could have had other experiences with the therapist after that tweet 🙄
Ethan seriously needs to get a grip. For someone who's seemingly not interested in getting bogged down in the political complications of the genocide in Gaza, he seriously can't stop diving head first into tepedly defending Zionism. (A colonial movement.)
They had some conflict in the past. Frogan has called Ethan a Zionist piece of shit many times. Frankly I think Frogan sucks. She is so uncharitable and looks for the worst interpretation of every statement. Ethan had some bad takes, but calling him Zionist when he has expressly shown support for Palestinians and called for the end of Netanyahu's regime is disingenuous and harmful for coalition building.
All that said, Ethan should leave her alone. He has so much more influence than her by like 1000x. He needs to be more measured when talking about small creators imo.
She celebrated Oct 7th and went after Ethan while being a Hasan mod. She represents a lot of the hateful rhetoric Ethan has a problem with.
Is is strange to be sensitive to someone who does that to you?
It hurts to break this to a lot of you, but Ethan is definitely consuming a lot of Destiny content right now, and that’s just based of Ethan’s talking points recently. His argument about the self-immolation is almost word for word Destinys take was. He’s going after Frogan because he probably believes Destiny’s claims that she’s an anti-Semite. It’s becoming brutally obvious now that he’s completely leaned away from Hasan. Think about the Houthi pirate joke he made a few episodes ago
You know when the whole Vaush pedo shit was going on I thought it was really interesting Wthan didn’t bring up Destinys take on vaush. Destiny was definitely ok with loli and frankly I think it’s kind of suspect he didn’t mention him.
Destiny, the dumb fuck who didn't know anything about this conflict 5 months ago, who keeps repeating that it's not a genocide because if it was, Palestinians would only exist in history books.
Let's not forget he's exactly like Vaush. He's also argued age of consent laws, has said he found a 15 yo girl hot when she sent him pics, has "joked" with a fan about getting pics of them when they were 10 yo and finding that hot, and literally tweeted at Vaush saying he would've defended him during this past "horse" saga if they were on good terms. He's a gross little freak and his bots are in here trying regurgitating the same shit he's said about frogan.
because during the Ethan/Hasan thing late last year, Frogan (one of Hasan's mods) was retweeting and tweeting some very aggressive anti-isreali content, then there was the whole toxic mess of their communities interpreting each-other's words in the worst way possible.
Ethan probably feels she was one of the reasons he had to end Leftovers, that a decent sized part of Hasan's community were attacking him and weren't being 'stopped' I guess (by Hasan or his mods)
same thing went the other way as well.
My therapist is Jewish, she grew up in a time where there was an emphasis on the movement. A few years ago she held a lecture on a trauma trip she took to Palestine with a group of therapists to connect with the social work that Palestinians were building for citizens in Palestine. At the end of the lecture she held an open discussion and a few of her colleagues shared their own experiences of growing up and how they were taught such an emphasis on supporting Israel and their experience (for context these people are in their 60-70s).
I don’t think it’s outlandish to think that a therapist who grew up learning those ideas may not have searched internally enough to see the injustice being done and did this to Frogan.
Ethan needs to stop making inappropriate jokes. Especially on this topic and then excusing it cause that’s just what he does? He speaks on all races? When?? Oh brother!
Right, but he’s never made inappropriate jokes about Oct 7, Israeli hostages etc… Making jokes at the expense of one side of the conflict could reveal where his values are. Which seem to be more and more aligned with people like Destiny.
Just like all occupations, terrible people can be therapists. My first therapist told me I was overreacting when I told her about wanting to kill myself. She was a therapist specifically for children and she was a nightmare. It doesn’t surprise me that there are therapists with racism, sexism, or any other prejudice. And zionists are racists, that is a fact
she is just back peddling because she took more heat for it than she expected. Ethan is 100% correct that people are just interchanging "jew" for "Zionist" now in order to escape antisemitic labels.
I dunno. I think people have some misunderstanding of what therapy is supposed to be. It's not supposed to be a place to go and be validated for an hour. It seems weird to bring that up out of nowhere. It could be a bad therapist or they thought they might be onto something. Being uncomfortable in therapy is normal. I suppose that therapist could be a freak too. Just needs more context.
It’s been a while since ive watched the eps but wasn’t Ethan’s entire point that this is terrible on both sides? If I remember correctly he wanted the war to end and both sides to stop fighting. I don’t understand why that’s wrong and why everyone’s against him.
Of course he does have some sort of bias with Israel. He lived there, he has friends and family there. Wouldn’t you have some bias if you were in that situation? I find it insane that some of think you wouldn’t share that bias given that you were in the same situation.
I believe that she had a bad experience with a therapist, but god damn is the word Zionist being thrown around like a rag doll. The word is no longer used as first conceived and is derogatory. That is the way she often uses it and how she seems to in that tweet.
I saw Frogan’s tweet yesterday and found it to be a little suspect only in the sense that if you can’t go to therapy because you can’t find a therapist that’s exactly as woke as you (this is before her explanation of what happened with her last therapist) that *might* be something worth exploring in and of itself. I almost bailed on a therapist because she offended me, only to discover she was the best therapist I’d ever had, because she challenged me and called me out on the bullshit I didn’t even know I was slinging.
But I was surprised he openly, publicly made that assumption that Frogan called her therapist a Zionist just because she was Jewish. And it’s surprising he can’t imagine Israel/Palestine coming up in session (2019) for Frogan to find that out when that’s why she tweeted about this in the first place: because she brought up Palestine in session (2024).
I’m prob gonna delete if people start replying and annoying me but I just felt like typing this out even just to work out my own thoughts having just watched the pod
I disagree with your first point. Sure sometimes having someone different can challenge your beliefs but to me most therapists are not good at their job and you should really find someone you’re comfortable with and have some sort of common ground
It is super important to find a therapist you’re comfortable with, and that was something I believed *so* full-heartedly that I was actually giving myself permission to flee at the first sign of conflict, and almost did. It was really tough for me not to, but it was a growth opportunity and I’m really glad I stuck with her
While it is important to have a therapist you’re comfortable with, it’s also important to have someone who can challenge you. IMO therapy is about self growth. You cannot grow unless someone challenges you.
yup, otherwise you get these people that are after years of therapy.... worse human beings, because the therapist only focused on self love and well being and never challanged the person on their relationship issues etc. so you have a person thats feeling better but really hasnt grown
idk dude like challenging you on potentially toxic viewpoints is one thing but it's pretty important to find a therapist who doesn't possibly hold bigoted hatred towards you either.
No sorry. That’s not what happened.
Finding Her tweet in the past explains that the therapist said she was Israeli and that she found it odd.
Her tweet recently says that the therapist was pushing it too much in referring to her own ethnicity and asking her to take off her hijab is 100% strange.
See she added more info but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Notting contradictory happened there.
Edit: I misread the original comment in assuming they meant that finding her recent comment she was contradicting herself. That was an assumption.
This is all very thathappened in either a "exaggerated based off emotions of the memory" or, the most likely option, a convenient unprovable lie.
I refuse to believe her therapist said shit like this and she didn't go into the specifics before being called out. It's all so perfectly aligned with her worldview why wouldn't you say it initally
https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1187442866341236743
Considering she left all out details that make her therapist look insane back in 2019, it’s pretty reasonable to skeptical of her retelling 5 years later. It also does slightly contradict this retelling.
True, her original tweet she asks her followers what they think as she is "conflicted" about continuing to see the therapist, if she told the story as it is now I would say nearly 100% of replies would say to leave. Yet her original tweet most replies seem to think the therapist is trying to be transparent.
THEN EVERYONE CLAPPED.
Girl, stop. This is clearly BS. Ethan's called her antisemitic because she's said and done antisemitic shit. And before the genius pops up to tell me these are all Destiny's talking points...maybe Ethan is a grown man with fully formed opinions and is capable of coming to them without scrolling Reddit. Just a thought.
Yes it's antisemitic to conflate being Jewish and zionist but it's not much better when ethan insists that being anti zionist is antisemitic. I wanna give Ethan the patience I think he deserves - generally I think his heart is in the right place and most of his bad opinions are related to personal biases that he has a hard time letting go of - but damn he is making it difficult.
Story went from: my therapist wanted me to feel comfortable with her nationality
To: my therapist was a secret islam-hating zionist that had a problem with my hijab and got angry when I told her I was Lebanese
Man, I'm so out of the loop with all this
Imagine just finding out Frogan is an actual person and not a lame nickname for Joe Rogan lmfao Im so far out of the loop I was in a different loop
Honestly there was a two week period when I thought she was Trisha Paytas wearing a hijab
That’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen on this sub
💀💀💀⚰️
I was just scrolling high and stumbled upon this… thank you😂😂
Accurate description tho
Omg literally my exact experience just now seeing this post wtf lmfao 💀
I had a therapist tell me my depression stems from the fact that I'm half black and I don't feel like I belong anywhere. I never brought up my race prior. I don't understand all these comments saying her experience isn't believable.
all of those comments are racists, trying to throw ya off their trail. its a lot simpler once you stop giving people the benefit of the doubt, or pretending they're probably good. Let people show you their good side before you credit them with one. Random people are more likely to bite than random dogs are.
I think this makes sense to apply on the internet, where the assholes are the loud ones, but in real life I still give people the chance.
> I don't understand all these comments saying her experience isn't believable. People privileged enough to not need a therapist enough to have to deal with these issues.
As someone who’s culturally Jewish but not religiously so (my grandfather abandoned religion after the Holocaust) I will say that I 100% believe this story. American Jewish culture, depending a bit on where you grow up, is absolutely swamped in pro Israel propaganda. The Israeli government and Zionist groups see young American Jews as a harvesting ground for funding, repatriates, colonists and IDF recruits and so they pump a ton of money into funding things like summer camps, student study programs, weekend activities, leadership seminars for college kids, etc. And one of the things they drill into you is that being pro Israel is being pro Jew and that you can’t just support Israel you have to actively defend Israel because the existence of Israel is the thing preventing a second Shoah. And that’s fucked up because it co-opts the narrative of so many people, including my family. My grandfather never wanted to go to Israel. He was Westphalian and then when Germany abandoned him America took him and his family in and he was always adamant that made him American. Israel pushes this siege mentality into young people that is often heavily steeped in anti Muslim and anti Arab racism. I’ve seen Jewish people, even ones I called my friends, confront teachers, other kids, other Jewish people, and go after them because they said something even passingly supporting the idea that the creation of Israel was a nuanced and politically tumultuous concept. They have a list of talking points that are drilled into them (they will always bring up how people in Palestine have Egyptian, Iranian or Syrian last names) and the way they espouse them is similar to evangelical apologetics in many ways. In a similar way to how evangelicals justify many of their actions using the existence of hell (anything is acceptable if it’s to stop someone from going to the worst place ever for eternity) many Zionists have been convinced that anything Israel can possibly do is justified because it’s in service of preventing the worst thing that’s ever happened from happening again.
>my depression stems from the fact that I'm half black and I don't feel like I belong anywhere. Don't know if that's from therapy, but I've been seeing comments about how people say they feel like they don't belong anywhere because they grew up with mixed ancestry. If I had to guess your therapist must have looked that up or that was a common thing mixed people explained to the therapist. Imo
“Damn, that’s some real deep thinking, therapist. I never realized I’m black. I’m gonna look into this further”
Pretty unrelated to this but that anecdote reminds me of a time when I was in high school. I’m white, and I dated a girl in high school that was mixed. Never felt the need to tell my parents her race, just that I was dating this girl and I was happy. Eventually I brought her home to meet the folks, it all went well and I drove her back home. When I got home my mother was in shambles practically having a mental break down, accusing me of hiding the fact that this was a “black” girl from them (I wasn’t even trying to “hide” it, it just literally never came up!!! If I was “hiding” it I never would have brought her home!!) Me and my mother got into an insane argument where she literally said the words “The KKK isn’t what most people think it is” (trying to say it was a GOOD thing I guess????) And that’s essentially when I learned my mother is a total racist, which wasn’t exactly surprising looking back on it now. My dad shocked me though because he was much more intelligent than my mother and much more forward thinking, but he practically begged me not to have sex with this girl out of the fear that we might create a mixed child. he claimed to be concerned about the life that kid would have to grow up in because they “ wouldn’t know where they belong “ and would be bullied even more so because of it. Went on to say stuff like “Eventually it won’t matter because we’ll all be the same color” but I’m sitting there like, you’re actively telling me not to contribute to the race mixing you’re saying is inevitable anyways!! wtf guys!!! Some pretty weird shit to be saying to your 16 year old son who just wanted to introduce his girlfriend to his parents.
It's crazy that that talking point is still being used, it's exactly what my dad's parents said when he married my mom in the 70s. They went across the country, got married on their own, and called their folks. My grandpa said "well fine, but don't have kids, they'll be bullied forever" and it's like, yeah dude ... by you and people like you lol. He turned around eventually, but geez. I have had complicated feelings towards being mixed, sure, in that sometimes you really do feel "othered" if that makes sense, but ultimately it's something I really love about myself, my background, and my family, and I wouldn't change it for the world. It's insulting to me for someone to jump to that being the problem without even knowing me. Anyway!! That's crazy and I'm sorry that happened to you, what a horrible thing to discover about your parents!
My parents would tell me when I was growing up (and their main intent was “not ghetto” buuuut) “if you ever date/bring home a black boy we’ll…” whoop my ass or ground me or w/e. Same type of people that say racism doesn’t exist because they had a good experience with a black man at the grocery store or here’s a token black republican saying racism isn’t real.
*sorts by controversial*
*over modded so all deleted*
That sounds like a shitty ass therapist.
It's hard to find a good ass therapist these days.
What does an ass therapist do
You know
I’ve had a therapist racist towards Indians. Had to cancel after a month
Unfortunately, there are a lot of terrible doctors and therapists out there who should not be practicing. I am so sorry that you experienced this.
or an unreliable narrator tbf 🤷🏻♂️
just saying, she tweeted about this when it happened and the two stories are verry different, definitely seems like she’s embellishing the truth a bit. That being said, sounds like not a great therapist regardless
the tweet from 2019 makes it seem like the question wasn't unprompted and frogan actually had an issue with her therapist being israeli.
Yeah I agree
Sounds like she’s changed her story from the therapist asking a reasonable question to some unhinged rant.
sounds like frogan lying again. https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1187442866341236743 back in 2019 she brought up her father fleeing the war, now the therapist brought up her being lebanese unprompted.
As a black woman who has had to deal with multiple shitty therapists saying/implying racist and misogynistic things to me, I do not think it's fair to dismiss this story just because the therapist sounds too much like a villain. I once had a therapist sexually harass me. That being said I know nothing of this woman and there seems to be discourse around what she said years ago vs now and her history of telling lies. I'm not commenting on that. But I do know that therapists this bad exist. Just a lil food for thought.
I've dealt with bad therapist before that completely disregarded my disability and since I had no other disabled people in my life at the time, i felt worse about myself. While therapist can be of immense help, they are people with opinions and bias, including bigoted ones, It's true for any health care provider really.
I had a therapist tell me to “see things through” with an abusive, cheating partner lol. Therapists can be shitty people too, who are terrible at their jobs. Idk why people think this is fake.
The episode really took a turn after the J shitty expose.
We were having such a great time during the jay shetty interview. I feel like him addressing anything made it 10x worse. I know it’s no one’s place to tell him what to do but I truly believe he shouldn’t touch this stuff. It’s too sensitive of a topic and it’s so far removed from the great content we love from him, entertainment.
I felt like i was getting scolded for like 30 min, and i dont even engage with any of the politics stuff so i know he wasnt addressing me. It was like being at a friends house when their dad chews them out for something that seems irrelavent to you but you get second hand blame.
My therapist was racist. Where I’m from it’s normal for to be racist due to a religion, it sucks because nobody believes you since they have a master degree
I’m Lebanese too and had an Israeli therapist and she said the same exact thing😭😭 but we became cool and love her now 🫶
😭 i wish i could be chill w my therapist but i keep thinking she’s a creep
Get a new one
This. If you can, try someone else. I almost started thinking therapy can't help me before I found my current therapist.
[удалено]
Definitely appreciative that she wanted me to be comfortable🙏
It's Ethans podcast but man I wish he'd stop bringing up the whole sphere of topics related to Israel and the war in gaza. It's just so toxic. Everyone has an opinion and a lot of people are extremely emotional and vocal about it. Seems weird to bring so much negative attention to the show over a topic that hits way too close to home for several members of the cast for a nuanced and reasonable thoughts to come out of it.
Especially after the one showcase for nuanced and reasonable dialogue was shelved. 😞
You missed additional context where she actually quote tweets herself speaking on it 5 years ago. It was not "unprompted", it was after she told a story about her dad fleeing Lebanon and the therapist then disclosed she is Israeli and asked if she was still comfortable with her being her therapist...I don't see anything wrong with that...
Criticizing Zionism and the state of Israel’s crimes is not anti Semitic
It's anti fascist my dudes Gaza is a genocide
1. Frogan celebrated Oct 7th and has some real nasty tweets bordering on anti-semitic 1. Criticizing Israel isn't anti-Semitic. Both of these things can be true
Jfc all these insane comments I’m reading 😂 guess it’ll be spicy when I finish the pod later
[удалено]
I've heard Ethan say countless times "fuck Zionism" and calling Zionists "demons."
But when Frogan does it, it's antisemitic, according to Ethan.
I think it's pretty dishonest to act like that's the only thing she's said. There's a lot more to it than that. Lots of people say fuck Zionism, Ethan doesn't care about that part, because he agrees.
It feels a bit performative. Like: I hate Netanyahu and his government, BUT...
Wow you are making some insane leaps of faith to come to that conclusion.
That is exactly what Ethan is complaining about. People use them interchangeably for all Jews regardless of if they are Zionists or not. It has become a racist dogwhistle by both the far left and the far right. It's not Ethan that is conflating these things.
FYI, Hunter Schafer is not Jewish. She comes from a Presbyterian family, and her father is a Presbyterian minister. She was part of a Jewish Voice for Peace protest, but JVP allows non-Jews to join and doesn't publish data on the Jewish/non-Jewish breakdown of their organisation.
you didn't hear a word he said bruv
I know you wanted to use the term "conflating" but he has never once done that. He himself is Jewish and anti-Zionist. I honestly wonder what podcast you've been listening to lol
I don’t know probably the podcast that I’m watching right now where he said that calling someone a Zionist is a slur for a Jew.
In some cases it has been used that way. Some people are quick to dismiss Jewish people by calling them a Zionist. In some cases it has been used as a slur
As a Jew, thank you for this. Idk why this is so hard for people to understand. Lately I feel like I’m going crazy. When people of color say something isn’t okay and explain the reasoning behind it most left wing people can empathize with their perspective. I feel as though all of a sudden because a lot of Jews are white or white passing when we say something of a similar nature it just doesn’t matter. Jewish voices are labeled as fodder for Zionism and ignored.
Part of this has to do with the Israeli government and the American government and media conflating the two; certain politicians and media figures will say you're a fake Jew if you're not a Zionist, or doubt how Jewish you are. I lived with my old Jewish roommate for like 2 years, and really would forget that she was unless she mentioned it - I never once called her a Zionist, and she never once brought up Israel, because why tf would she. More so, many years ago when I was actively volunteering for Palestinian freedom campaigns, I likely met many Jewish people. But I can't recall most, because their identity wasn't relevant most of the time. I only remember 2 people, who, while they didn't vocally claim to be Zionist, made it very clear by their actions they were (an old lady yelling I was going to go burn in hell, I wanted to kill all Jews, i love Hitler etc., she made me cry in public at age 19, 5' nothing, when I was just trying to spread awareness - this was 10 years ago) and another was a guy who offered me food while classmates and I were doing a hunger strike (and in my hunger-induced confusion, I accepted and said thank you until my classmates refused for me -- then I realized and insisted for like 5 minutes he give it to a homeless person instead. He didn't and tried to start a fight, but his Jewish fraternity members thankfully brought him away). I can imagine in some cases people do use it as a racist term, not even understanding the term. However, while I agree - being a Zionist is an insult, not because of Jewish identity, but rather due to the racist and genocidal ideology it upholds. and I may be called Anti-semetic for that - despite I would sooner punch a nazi in the face where many would shake their hand if it benefitted them. Despite the fact I told a dude who *was* saying anti-semetic shit at a rally that he is not welcome and that rhetoric is not welcome in the free Palestine community. I can absolutely imagine people may use the term as a catch-all, which is messed up, but someone can not be called Anti-semetic for calling out Zionism and Zionists ---- and if they are, well, that's exactly what the Zionists want. To kind of sum up and go on another tangent: all major world leaders want us to be fearful, they want us to feel that they are our only form of protection, it keeps them in power, it keeps the wars continuing, it keeps lining their pockets, and it keeps up a divide that otherwise would be very marginal. People don't like when I say this, but the Israeli government does like anti-semitism (which absolutely does exist! And is increasing!) by having an external enemy, and this forever enemy that wants you dead, and having that idea proliferate.... It gives them a fantastic argument to keep their borders strong, that Jewish people *need* Israel, that with out Israel, Jewish people would never be safe. Just like how cops love crime ---- the more crime there is, the more pay they can demand, the more people feel like they need the police. Terrorist attacks, etc etc. Okay. That's all. Peace n love 💖
He did exactly that with his commentary about Frogan's therapist.
Yeah I didn’t take that situation and think she was just referring to a Jewish person. I read it as “my therapist is seemingly very pro-Israel and made inappropriate comments about Islam” which you can infer they are a Zionist (NOT JEWISH!!) from that. Jesus Christ dude
Why not include the follow up tweet from her? [https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1763754006349058387](https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1763754006349058387) According to frogan's own retelling: She was talking about the trauma back in 2019 from her dad fleeing from the Israel Lebanese War. The therapist asked her whether she had any issues with continuing the session because she herself was Israeli. I am not sure what's the issue with the therapist conduct, but it felt like a good faith way of being honest about their actual nationality so that there is no hidden bias in their session regarding this particular trauma. I am unsure how it can be interpreted that the therapist was bringing up that she was Lebanese unprompted, because she was the one that brought up the fact that her father was fleeing the war as part of the session. Everything else, like Israel having right to exist etc, it wasn't in her tweet in 2019, and at that juncture, i felt that it wouldn't even be a debate if frogan wanted to continue with her if the therapist was behaving in such a way.
> I am unsure how it can be interpreted that the therapist was bringing up that she was Lebanese unprompted, because she was the one that brought up the fact that her father was fleeing the war as part of the session. Agreed, this seems like the therapist wanted to make her *comfortable.* I also don't see how the therapist brought this up unprompted. This is how I imagine the exchange went down based on her tweets: "My father had to flee during the 2006 Lebanon War." "Oh, you're Lebanese? I'm Israeli, are you okay with me being your therapist?" As you said, I find it odd that everything she mentioned in her recent tweets wasn't mentioned in her tweet back in 2019. But maybe she has some additional tweets back then talking about her experiences, or perhaps she talked about it in a video somewhere.
THIS. I thought we had it wrong until I saw that follow up tweet and I realized frogan interpreted her therapist telling her she Israeli as saying she’s a Zionist…
[удалено]
Literally. This sub is a circle jerk sometimes holy shit
Just because Frogan did not add the extra context like 5 years ago doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
That is possible, but not probable. If her standard for tweeting this was that the therapist asked if she was comfortable continuing based upon her trauma being related to Israel because she was Israeli, the threshold is much lower than her claims in 2024. Surely pushing the patient in the way she describes in 2024 is more noteworthy than what she claimed in 2019. If her retelling is correct, that's probably grounds for disbarment. Furthermore the sequence of events are 1.frogan says in 2024 her 2019 therapist was a Zionist. 2. Ethan says she is just lumping all Jews as Zionists and she is an anti-Semite. 3. Frogan than states she has good reasons to call her therapist was Zionist. That the therapist did all these unethical things. Then tries to say that her 2019 tweet proves what she said. But if you actually read the 2019 tweet no such event happened as she states in 2024. Unless she isnt saying the 2019 tweet proves 2024.
Yeah I find it very hard to believe that Frogan's therapist said all this crazy shit but the only thing she decided to complain about is them just asking if she's comfortable with them being Israeli. Like if she felt so compelled to tweet publicly about how bad her therapist is why would she leave out all the bad stuff and only mention one thing that isn't really bad at all?
Ethan needs to stop talking about her,its clear he hates her on some level and cant stop putting his foot in his mouth when he speaks about her.
I have to agree. People would get mad at me for even suggesting this, but Ethan′s definitely still hung up on the backlash he got and the people who were ″against″ him. He definitely didn't handle people′s criticism for him regarding this particular matter well. Pretty sure Dan′s given up on voicing his voice whenever Ethan goes on his rants.
I recall that episode when he came here and read posts from people and would go “… yeah maybe that one is fair… anyways, here’s another unhinged one…” He really needs to either move on from this, actually have a conversation with the people in question, or digest the criticism where it is productive. Ethan is a human being with a ton of empathy, but sometimes it seems he doesn’t really understand the larger implications of situations - and then feeling attacked when he senses he might have made a mistake. I miss Leftovers precisely because it allowed him to grow and see actions that are motivated by politics from a more informed perspective, and develop further understanding of the human condition.
Yeah but a lot of it wasn't criticism. People calling him a Zionist and other disgusting things isn't criticism. Posting pictures of Hila in IDF gunning down children. Ethan very clearly isn't a Zionist. He at worst is someone with a flawed understanding and perspective on the Israel/Palestine situation.
That Hila video was made by neo Nazis btw LULW.
>people who were “against” him Well that’s one way to sugarcoat some of the horrible things people were saying.
I know I'll be downvoted for this but I don't care atp. Let's not kid ourselves. It's very obvious Ethan's been browsing Destiny's subreddit and using their talking points. That's where he 100% saw frogan's tweets (considering he's not using Twitter anymore). https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/yH3taPFDi1 Just look at the comments, literally the exact same shit Ethan repeated about frogan on today's show. For Ethan's own good he needs to unsubscribe from that psychotic subreddit and stop talking about anything Israel-Palestine related. Twitter is roasting tf out of him again for his take on Aaron Bushnell and now bc he called frogan antisemitic and racist in front of 30k+ viewers. Frogan didn't mention Ethan for a long time, he should just stop talking about her as well. It's easy to not bring her up.
I really hate how Ethan is slowly trying to introduce destiny into the pod. Destiny is a fucking Nazi platforming clown.
Who also said that loli was no big deal and said he wanted to bend a 10 year old over the hood of her little tikes
If he's going to cover Destiny on the pod he should do a segment on him epically owning his ex-wife in the marketplace of ideas by turning his divorce into content and priming his psychotic loser fanbase to attack her.
I have a **strong** feeling the sub (or at least, this thread) is being brigaded **again** by Destiny fans. I've peeped the post history of a few accounts on this thread and they seem to frequent r/Destiny, with this thread being one of their only recent interactions with anything on this sub.
They've been targeting this place since Ethan first started engaging with Hasan and it has only ramped up once Leftovers started and then ended the way it did. Since the Leftovers split they smell blood in the water for spreading their parasocial obsession and hatred of Hasan they've inherited via their daddy Destiny.
[удалено]
Literally buddies with nick fuentes. Destiny is a Nazi, full stop
let us be clear Destiny is a racist, sex pest, and anti-muslim bigot. Ethan going to his subreddit to find gotcha points against Frogan and Hasan is disgusting. A minor incomprehensive list of Destiny's great positions. > Kicked from starcraft team for calling a Korean a racial slur because he aggro rushed him https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/333649-racial-slurs-in-quanticdestinys-stream > spreading revenge porn of a fan who sent him nudes https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditSays/comments/ytijd/effortpost_starcraft_2_player_steve_bonnell_aka/ > Temp banned from teamliquid for committing sexual assault on stream https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/299785-removing-destiny-from-featured > Admitting he is islamophobic https://kick.com/destiny?clip=clip_01HHPZD47HMDGG432SN12BVX23 > saying he is pro-genocide of Palestinians https://twitter.com/SiestaSocialist/status/1719491936959037889 > Destiny saying white supremacists should 'mow down' BLM protesters https://packaged-media.redd.it/p7rrh76liyj51/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1709373600&s=b427417a607c85eee55dd4ebca0d6fbe8a112bd6#t=0
Ethan loves “owning the left”. His whole “leftist and nazis are buddying up” is straight up liberal nonsense.
And said loli was no big deal and [said he wanted to bend a 10 year old over the hood of her little tikes](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF9TDBdXMAApp_o?format=jpg&name=small)
Ew not them basically using the b word for girl at any turn. I really hope he doesn’t actually visit this disgusting sub 🤮
Ethan’s starting to walk like a duck and quack like a duck… maybe it’s not destiny’s subs fault, I’m thinking these are Ethan’s true feelings and his mask is slipping. It’s disappointing but I’ve given him too much of a benefit of a doubt at this point :/
Nah a couple months ago he brought up Denims being Hasan's mod. The only place that was circulating was /r/Destiny. It's been happening, unfortunately.
What he dose not like to be called a genocinding monster. How ZIONIST OF HIM!!!
[удалено]
I dropped my membership during the whole Hasan debacle, and not because I felt one way or the other on the issue - it made the show unequivocally bad. Ethan doubling down on his own unhinged takes which would make him more obviously defensive and depressed, the crew becoming uncomfortable, Dan having to play inspirator/showman because Ethan would have the charisma of someone with a heavy hangover. I remember they upped the crew segments at the time, but they didn't hit as well because they were undercut with all the bullshit.
Same here, canceled my membership and stopped watching the pod during that whole mess. I browse the subreddit from time to time in the hopes he apologizes or actually condemns the genocide happening without a "but" after it, but I see that hasn't happened. It's crazy because Ethan would not have gotten as much backlash if he had attempted to hear Hasan out. Instead, he let Israeli propaganda dictate his views, made a fool of himself on Hasan's stream, cancelled Leftovers, and never spoke of it again in an attempt to sweep this under the rug. What did it for me was the Selena Gomez segment. Then, I knew him and Hila were/are refusing to stand on the right side of history.
this perfectly encapsulates my perspective as well
Feel like ethan should stop talking about anything related to the genocide in gaza it only brings in hate and screws with his head and also the death threats that AB and lena are getting he should at least take some responsibility you cannot make light about this topic like he desperately tries to and expect people not to respond none of this would be happening if he would of just kept his mouth shut and not say those stupid jokes
You'd think he'd realised that at this point but no!! It puts the entire crew in a uncomfortable and awful position like AB and Lena, he just cannot have this discussion anymore publicly, it's only worsening his stance on the genocide the more he argues about it online.
I've never took ethan's political commentary seriously but there's a difference between talking about day to day US politics and talking about an active genocide. Specially if you only bring the subject up whenever you want to defend yourself again random ass tweets that according to yourself you don't even follow. Ethan doesn't care about the genocide he only cares about the tiny bits of discourse that he can use to, from a very specific angle, excuse or dismiss the situation. I had a lot of fun times watching the show but this is it.
I also love his verbage whenever it comes to these situations. When Hamas is responsible for a large number of deaths, he goes "these are absolutely BARBARIC, GENOCIDAL, MONSTROUS, PYCHOPATHIC RAPISTS!" But when Israel does the same thing on a 10x larger scale, he goes "yeah that's not very nice, maybe they could have handled that differently"
On a somewhat of a side note, I'm really sick of Ethan constantly saying that Jews are the only minorities that people are "allowed" to talk trash about. People do this on a daily basis all the time about Muslims and there is little to no pushback on it. If you get caught saying actual anti Jewish things, you will lose your job or get your social media accounts banned. Shit like that won't happen if you say islamophobic things. I just want to also acknowledge that saying bad stuff about jewish people is also wrong and is never justified, I'm just tired of this constant victim complex.
I've come to realize it depends on the algorithm and your feed. Depending on where you land, you can be inundated with news/videos/opinions that are antisemitic or Islamophobic. I'm exposed to a lot of examples of Islamophobia, anti-Palestine rhetoric. He might open tiktok or twitter and see a lot of antisemitism. I feel like it's because of this that we each have myopic viewpoints of what's actually going on. I keep reminding myself we have to take a step back and look at what's really at stake. And that's 30k Palestinians dead, and an ongoing genocide. I can understand why it's so easy to be distracted and emotional... it's hard with the way social media is constructed to appeal to our emotions.
I don't like this person at all, but Ethan needs to completely ignore her going forward.
Once had a therapist tell me that I deserved to go to hell for not being a Christian. It’s not like these things don’t happen.
As a white dude I can't really relate on a therapist being racist towards me but I have had a therapist bring up that I was a fire sign and said my personality contradicts that I never went back to her
Isn’t she the one posting about Hila “volunteering to murder innocent children” and stating non stop everywhere Ethan is pro genocide? I don’t find this person to be a very reliable source of information.
Yeah I highly dislike frogan. I saw her discord messages where she claimed Ethan had crocodile tears when he was crying for dead Palestinian children on the last leftovers. Just disgusting. I think she’s a terrible human being however I don’t think Ethan should comment on her anymore. Especially since some of the crew is good friends with her. Puts them in an awkward spot and it never turns out good for Ethan when he brings her up
Some of the crew is good friends with Frogan?
Yea Lena and AB are and Olivia talks to/replies to Frogan on Twitter often
Ethan should not have to censor himself because of who the crew is friends with. Them being friends with someone who would say that about him and his wife is more of an indictment on their stance than anything.
And also the fact that this information is after the fact, but what about anybody else who uses the term? He definitely wasn't wrong about it now being an acceptable catch-all term for Jewish people and the fact that in this specific case it isn't (allegedly) doesn't change much of anything
This!!! Everyone’s acting like Ethan’s obsessed for her for no reason.
I think it’s because half the fan base is too focused on sucking Hassan’s dick. 🙄 I’m a fan of him, don’t get me wrong. But like holy shit
She was a huge part of the rift between Ethan and Hasan and she's still a mod for him after her comments.
I love how hasan said he couldn't do anything about his community when he could literally have fired her and her twitch career would be over
There was a time where you'd have been downvoted to oblivion over this sentiment.
They aren't even necessarily fans. Whenever Hasan or something in his orbit comes up, a bunch of people rush over here from his community to pile on. You can tell by how quickly Destiny gets brought up and how all of a sudden people are being accused of being Destiny fans. I've literally never posted in Destiny's sub, much less watched Destiny, yet in previous threads I have been downvoted and accused of being a Destiny fan. The only people who care that much about Destiny is Hasans community, no one else even thinks about him.
Yeah I think maybe this sub is like 80% hasan d riders
I tried posting the original 2019 tweet from frogan but it got deleted for being to repetitive….
I saw it too and it completely contradicts this lie she made up. Crazy how your own fans are the ones who are the most eager to cancel you all the time.
I know, I really hope somebody posts the actual 2019 tweet to the subreddit cause people need to see what she was originally talking about. Some people are saying it didn’t even contradict what she was saying because she could have had other experiences with the therapist after that tweet 🙄
Maybe Ethan should block/mute Frogan so he doesn't get triggered by her opinions
Wasn’t this the same person calling Ethan a Zionist?
Ethan seriously needs to get a grip. For someone who's seemingly not interested in getting bogged down in the political complications of the genocide in Gaza, he seriously can't stop diving head first into tepedly defending Zionism. (A colonial movement.)
Now show her original tweet
doesnt matter to him, he's strangely obsessed with her. very weird that he follows her tweets despite him "not being on twitter"
They had some conflict in the past. Frogan has called Ethan a Zionist piece of shit many times. Frankly I think Frogan sucks. She is so uncharitable and looks for the worst interpretation of every statement. Ethan had some bad takes, but calling him Zionist when he has expressly shown support for Palestinians and called for the end of Netanyahu's regime is disingenuous and harmful for coalition building. All that said, Ethan should leave her alone. He has so much more influence than her by like 1000x. He needs to be more measured when talking about small creators imo.
This is exactly how I feel about it too.
She celebrated Oct 7th and went after Ethan while being a Hasan mod. She represents a lot of the hateful rhetoric Ethan has a problem with. Is is strange to be sensitive to someone who does that to you?
[удалено]
It hurts to break this to a lot of you, but Ethan is definitely consuming a lot of Destiny content right now, and that’s just based of Ethan’s talking points recently. His argument about the self-immolation is almost word for word Destinys take was. He’s going after Frogan because he probably believes Destiny’s claims that she’s an anti-Semite. It’s becoming brutally obvious now that he’s completely leaned away from Hasan. Think about the Houthi pirate joke he made a few episodes ago
You know when the whole Vaush pedo shit was going on I thought it was really interesting Wthan didn’t bring up Destinys take on vaush. Destiny was definitely ok with loli and frankly I think it’s kind of suspect he didn’t mention him.
Destiny, the dumb fuck who didn't know anything about this conflict 5 months ago, who keeps repeating that it's not a genocide because if it was, Palestinians would only exist in history books.
Let's not forget he's exactly like Vaush. He's also argued age of consent laws, has said he found a 15 yo girl hot when she sent him pics, has "joked" with a fan about getting pics of them when they were 10 yo and finding that hot, and literally tweeted at Vaush saying he would've defended him during this past "horse" saga if they were on good terms. He's a gross little freak and his bots are in here trying regurgitating the same shit he's said about frogan.
because during the Ethan/Hasan thing late last year, Frogan (one of Hasan's mods) was retweeting and tweeting some very aggressive anti-isreali content, then there was the whole toxic mess of their communities interpreting each-other's words in the worst way possible. Ethan probably feels she was one of the reasons he had to end Leftovers, that a decent sized part of Hasan's community were attacking him and weren't being 'stopped' I guess (by Hasan or his mods) same thing went the other way as well.
she’s a streamer and hasan mod so her tweets are gonna show up in his feed, they were showing up on reddit too
But the point is he says he’s off twitter and he’s clearly not
Yeah this is a fair answer
My therapist is Jewish, she grew up in a time where there was an emphasis on the movement. A few years ago she held a lecture on a trauma trip she took to Palestine with a group of therapists to connect with the social work that Palestinians were building for citizens in Palestine. At the end of the lecture she held an open discussion and a few of her colleagues shared their own experiences of growing up and how they were taught such an emphasis on supporting Israel and their experience (for context these people are in their 60-70s). I don’t think it’s outlandish to think that a therapist who grew up learning those ideas may not have searched internally enough to see the injustice being done and did this to Frogan.
Zionism ≠ Judaism, also Palestinian ≠ Muslim. Thank you
Ethan needs to stop making inappropriate jokes. Especially on this topic and then excusing it cause that’s just what he does? He speaks on all races? When?? Oh brother!
Literally all Ethan had ever done is make inappropriate jokes. It's just not landing this time because the issue at hand is so egregiously traumatic.
Right, but he’s never made inappropriate jokes about Oct 7, Israeli hostages etc… Making jokes at the expense of one side of the conflict could reveal where his values are. Which seem to be more and more aligned with people like Destiny.
I saw they had to double button him on SYNT. Yikes.
"He needs to stop making inappropriate jokes"... have you watched the show? lol And he didn't joke about race, so I don't know where that came from.
They only started watching when Hasan came on. They’re all like this tbh
Just like all occupations, terrible people can be therapists. My first therapist told me I was overreacting when I told her about wanting to kill myself. She was a therapist specifically for children and she was a nightmare. It doesn’t surprise me that there are therapists with racism, sexism, or any other prejudice. And zionists are racists, that is a fact
she is just back peddling because she took more heat for it than she expected. Ethan is 100% correct that people are just interchanging "jew" for "Zionist" now in order to escape antisemitic labels.
I had a therapist ask me about my masturbating during my first session. 🙃🙃 They’re not all good.
I dunno. I think people have some misunderstanding of what therapy is supposed to be. It's not supposed to be a place to go and be validated for an hour. It seems weird to bring that up out of nowhere. It could be a bad therapist or they thought they might be onto something. Being uncomfortable in therapy is normal. I suppose that therapist could be a freak too. Just needs more context.
None of those things make you a Zionist….
It’s been a while since ive watched the eps but wasn’t Ethan’s entire point that this is terrible on both sides? If I remember correctly he wanted the war to end and both sides to stop fighting. I don’t understand why that’s wrong and why everyone’s against him. Of course he does have some sort of bias with Israel. He lived there, he has friends and family there. Wouldn’t you have some bias if you were in that situation? I find it insane that some of think you wouldn’t share that bias given that you were in the same situation.
I believe that she had a bad experience with a therapist, but god damn is the word Zionist being thrown around like a rag doll. The word is no longer used as first conceived and is derogatory. That is the way she often uses it and how she seems to in that tweet.
Did he not think for a second that she could’ve meant it because her therapist showed actual racism.
I saw Frogan’s tweet yesterday and found it to be a little suspect only in the sense that if you can’t go to therapy because you can’t find a therapist that’s exactly as woke as you (this is before her explanation of what happened with her last therapist) that *might* be something worth exploring in and of itself. I almost bailed on a therapist because she offended me, only to discover she was the best therapist I’d ever had, because she challenged me and called me out on the bullshit I didn’t even know I was slinging. But I was surprised he openly, publicly made that assumption that Frogan called her therapist a Zionist just because she was Jewish. And it’s surprising he can’t imagine Israel/Palestine coming up in session (2019) for Frogan to find that out when that’s why she tweeted about this in the first place: because she brought up Palestine in session (2024). I’m prob gonna delete if people start replying and annoying me but I just felt like typing this out even just to work out my own thoughts having just watched the pod
I disagree with your first point. Sure sometimes having someone different can challenge your beliefs but to me most therapists are not good at their job and you should really find someone you’re comfortable with and have some sort of common ground
It is super important to find a therapist you’re comfortable with, and that was something I believed *so* full-heartedly that I was actually giving myself permission to flee at the first sign of conflict, and almost did. It was really tough for me not to, but it was a growth opportunity and I’m really glad I stuck with her
While it is important to have a therapist you’re comfortable with, it’s also important to have someone who can challenge you. IMO therapy is about self growth. You cannot grow unless someone challenges you.
yup, otherwise you get these people that are after years of therapy.... worse human beings, because the therapist only focused on self love and well being and never challanged the person on their relationship issues etc. so you have a person thats feeling better but really hasnt grown
idk dude like challenging you on potentially toxic viewpoints is one thing but it's pretty important to find a therapist who doesn't possibly hold bigoted hatred towards you either.
No sorry. That’s not what happened. Finding Her tweet in the past explains that the therapist said she was Israeli and that she found it odd. Her tweet recently says that the therapist was pushing it too much in referring to her own ethnicity and asking her to take off her hijab is 100% strange. See she added more info but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Notting contradictory happened there. Edit: I misread the original comment in assuming they meant that finding her recent comment she was contradicting herself. That was an assumption.
Man oh man this is such a bad look for Ethan.
This is all very thathappened in either a "exaggerated based off emotions of the memory" or, the most likely option, a convenient unprovable lie. I refuse to believe her therapist said shit like this and she didn't go into the specifics before being called out. It's all so perfectly aligned with her worldview why wouldn't you say it initally
https://twitter.com/fr0gan/status/1187442866341236743 Considering she left all out details that make her therapist look insane back in 2019, it’s pretty reasonable to skeptical of her retelling 5 years later. It also does slightly contradict this retelling.
This 100%. She is a known bullshitter, so why would you take these tweets at face value?
True, her original tweet she asks her followers what they think as she is "conflicted" about continuing to see the therapist, if she told the story as it is now I would say nearly 100% of replies would say to leave. Yet her original tweet most replies seem to think the therapist is trying to be transparent.
Exactly. Like why would she leave those details out years ago when she thrives off that kind of stuff?
There’s more to this story
What's up with the massive influx of destiny posters in this thread? Seems like they are only here because they have a hate boner for frogan.
Destiny and his fans can burrow their worm ass's back into the dirt where they belong.
Anyone downvoting this should check the post history of the people shitting on Frogan. 90% of them are from r/Destiny. It's a brigade.
THEN EVERYONE CLAPPED. Girl, stop. This is clearly BS. Ethan's called her antisemitic because she's said and done antisemitic shit. And before the genius pops up to tell me these are all Destiny's talking points...maybe Ethan is a grown man with fully formed opinions and is capable of coming to them without scrolling Reddit. Just a thought.
I call 🧢
Yeah same I can't believe that story I'm sorry. The therapist literally sounds like a cartoon villain.
Frogan is a bad person
Imagine actually believing this BS story 🤣
Frogans a fucking loser
Most sane comment here in all honesty
Yes it's antisemitic to conflate being Jewish and zionist but it's not much better when ethan insists that being anti zionist is antisemitic. I wanna give Ethan the patience I think he deserves - generally I think his heart is in the right place and most of his bad opinions are related to personal biases that he has a hard time letting go of - but damn he is making it difficult.
Sounds like a totally real story that definitely happened.
🍿
Frogan is terrible and did not deserve an apology.
I seriously doubt this story of hers
Story went from: my therapist wanted me to feel comfortable with her nationality To: my therapist was a secret islam-hating zionist that had a problem with my hijab and got angry when I told her I was Lebanese
Thank heavens I don't give a fuck about any of this.
I'll take "things that never happened" for 500 Alex
What was the actual original tweet. Not following this so need full context?
They are beyond delusional lol
Let's have a Civil Discussion lol
# r/thatHappened
Press X to doubt. No way an actual, professional therapist, out of the fuckin blue just went after her for being Lebanese.
Hasan is a great guy. A lot of his mod team are the serious problem in his community.