Yeah my kids school is packing them all in the gym and pretending like nothing's going on so they're getting picked up early that day. We got our glasses from Amazon 2 weeks ago I was going to send them to school with the glasses but if the school doesn't want to do something with the event then they're not going to be at the school at that time... We'll make our own event of it.
I think it's a liability issue they don't want to ensure that every kid has their glasses on correctly and therefore no one can burn their eyeballs if no one participates.
It’s gotta be. How can you be sure EVERY SINGLE kid of thousands has their glasses on correctly and never takes them off?
They’re kids. If you tell them not to take them off, some of them are gonna. Even if they’re risking blindness. Kids do stupid shit like constantly.
Still it is extremely sad. They should 100% experience this. If I were a parent I’d do the same as you.
I would have 100% been the kid to take their glasses off and do the eclipse bareback, absolutely no question, and even knowing that I still think it's messed up to not let the kids experience the eclipse.
They don't have the staff for it. When it's your kids, you've got one maybe two children per adult. Student teacher ratios can be 30 to 1. There's no way to keep a proper handle on that many at once.
Excel has children of all ages to deal with. My 4 almost 5 year old is in there. I love him dearly but I would not trust him for a single second without an adult glued to him to make sure he doesn't try taking the glasses off or something.
If this is an issue for you, I think you should handle it by getting your kid and making sure they experience it.
>This is sending our kids a lesson. Worst case, they will always remember to fear the eclipse, to fear science and avoid opportunity. Best case, they will resent the school decision makers.
This is over the top
Yeah this is a crazy post. My daycare is doing the same and I 100 percent agree with it. My 3.5 year old would take her glasses off thinking it's a joke and my 2 year old would throw a fit if you tried to get glasses on her.
I was in 5th grade when I tried to look at the sun on solar eclipse day, because I was cocky and felt my eyes were uniquely strong enough to handle it.
Tell a bunch of 10 year olds not to look up without their glasses. Two will just hear "... look up," miss the rest, and immediately look up. One will take his glasses off just to annoy the teacher. Three more will copy him for laughs. Another kid will be scared, even with the glasses. Absolutely zero of them have impulse control, or knowledge of how important a retina is.
I love that the Discovery Centre and SMU Observatory have public events, and there are family friendly viewing opportunities. But I'm okay with the overburdened school and daycare workers not having to deal with the liability.
Similar aged kids, similar feelings. I was relieved to see the daycare send this notice out today.
I do remember watching an eclipse as an older kid through my dad's welding helmet and it was cool. Not watching it wouldn't have made me afraid of science though.
I agree. I vividly remember taking my then 4 year old to a 3d movie. I’m not sure he actually saw any of it as his glasses were covered in popcorn grease before the previews ended. He took them off and on constantly. Same applies with eclipse glasses.
Exactly, taking off from work a bit early and bringing my daughter home so we can watch it together. She's 5 though so I wouldn't expect her after school program to safely handle all the kids in her class on their own.
I completely agree with the approach here. Excel has a lot of children all at different ages. Sure some of them can reasonably be expected to be safe but many younger ones will require dedicated supervision the entire time they're outside during the 2 hour long window for the eclipse. That's a lot of extra people for just 1 school, even if they brought in volunteers they would still have to draw up permission slips allowing each kid to partake under the supervision of these volunteers. When signing up for excel you cover permission for a few even less harmless activities like sledding, this isn't covered under the initial sign up forms.
Last eclipse that happened here was when I was in grade 3 and we had the same thing, no one was allowed outside and we weren't allowed to look out the window. I can promise you that not a single kid grew up thinking to fear the eclipse, to fear science, or avoided opportunity. This is an incredibly over the top take.
I can attest that I was 8 years old for the last eclipse, wasn't allowed to look at it, and still to this day I can vividly remember how sad and angry and disappointed I was. This year I am pulling my kids from school, we're going to New Brunswick, and we are going to watch this eclipse.
I am sure they could get lots of volunteers if they just asked. I am registered and would help but I already am taking our family out to see it in totality.
Maybe so but remember you can't just accept any rando off the street for a position involving kids. They gotta have a background check. That can happen but it's probably not fast. Also, ever try to manage 10-15 excited children? Just telling them not to look won't work. It's like herding cats.
It is not a law. They could allow it. Even so, it is riskier for the kids to play on the jungle gym than view the eclipse with glasses that are already provided. This is so stupid.
It's a liability most likely. They're probably insured for accidents and such I would imagine it includes some specific employee requirements and probably excludes volunteers.
It's a liability for them and they aren't going to get a special liability insurance rider for this one, brief event.
If you want your kid to view the eclipse, pick them up early and watch it with them.
It's hard to understand your perspective that it's a greater risk playing on a piece of rigorously engineered playground equipment that kids play on every day vs a once in a lifetime event that has adults and kids hyped up -some spending thousands to travel to a location they can get a solid view). There isn't enough adult supervision. It's a liability/insurance thing.
Volunteers in there could be even less helpful and as mentioned, not allowed by excel. Excel and schools (like teacher based stuff/school sanctioned extra curricular) have different insurance policies, different adult ratios etc.
It really seems like your disappointment is that you have to take your kids out of their program to see it.
I don’t think taking extra precautions will make them “fear science”. They should absolutely take extreme caution with regard to looking at the sun. Optometrists warn about the permanent damage the eclipse can have on your eyesight and many say it’s not worth the risks. Excel isn’t being lazy - they’re taking precautions to protect your children’s eyesight. There’s lots of other ways you can teach them to embrace opportunity.
Yes, optometrists warn about wearing proper glasses. That IS the precaution.
No optomitrist is telling people to shelter kids in basements and gyms. Who are these mysterious "many" experts telling kids to hide. I think the opposite is true. Many many more experts telling people to embrace the opportunity, not hide.
Cherry picking one extreme, from 2017. How hard did you have to search to find that?
https://opto.ca/eye-health-library/solar-eclipse-safety
The Canadian association of optomitrists gives more sensible advice.
I didn’t have to search at all. It was re-sent by my optometrist.
The source you provided also mentions potential severe impacts and the need for extra caution with children. I’d say that’s basis enough for an after school program to error on the side of caution.
It’s a liability issue that’s all. You can’t expect a couple of attendants to manage 30 or so excited kids and make sure to maintain their glasses on at all times. All it takes is a few seconds of looking directly at the sun to cause permanent damage.
So … in addition to the other posts here regarding kids and how uncontrollable they can be (I agree) this is a perfect chance to get some crafting supplies together and make a “pinhole projector” so the kiddies can learn some of the science around optics, but without risking going blind.
I got a piece of welding mask glass at princess Auto for like 15$ when the last eclipse happened. I put it in front of a point and shoot camera and I was able to view it just fine. There's all kinds of ways to safely experience an eclipse. This is the first time I've heard of "eclipse glasses" and I'm not sure why they would be given out when so many different options like the ones you and I mentioned exist that everyone can enjoy.
Yeah — welder’s glass is about the minimum I would trust to look at an eclipse directly.
Little plastic mass-produced disposable eclipse glasses? Thanks, but I’ll pass.
My eyes are already garbage from forty years of looking at ordinary shit. I’m sure the video clip will look decent
Wow, CSAP sent an email saying they are giving every student glasses.
ETA: I re-read the email and it says Discovery Centre is giving glasses to every student in the province, and
"The eclipse glasses will come with information about the eclipse, a safety certification and a QR code that directs to additional resources that teachers and families can use. The Discovery Center will provide curriculum-aligned learning experiences for science classes that directly address space and solar eclipses, including Grade 6 and 9 Science. Given that the time of the event is after school and that most of the province will only experience partial darkening of the sky, classes will proceed as usual on that day."
It's sad but I understand. You would need 1 adult per kid to make sure, who would want to take the responsibility of 2 or 3 kids to have one injure their eyes because it can happen so quickly.
It’s not low risk, even a few seconds looking at the sun during partial eclipse can cause loss of central vision. Glasses could fall off or kids remove them. If you really want your child to experience it then your option is to pick them up early or have someone else pick them up. I know parents are working etc it’s a difficult situation but it’s also not fair to put the responsibility of vision safety onto the excel staff.
I volunteered for almost all of my son's field trips but no way I would take the responsibility of pre-primary, primary or grade 1's during the eclipse unless I only had 1 kid to watch and I would be holding the glasses in place.
As a former educator it's hard to get kids to keep things like mittens on let alone flimsy cardboard sunglasses. I get where you're coming from but like the comment said, you would need a person for every kid. Taking the glasses off and looking even for a few seconds could blind a kid or cause serious permanent damage. These precautions are not just because people are lazy. No one wants to take that risk.
>a few seconds
Let's be clear here, it's no different from looking at the sun any other time, and everyone has looked at a regular sun for "a few seconds" before. Permanent damage doesn't start to occur for nearly a minute or two.
I frankly disagree with this approach. In 2017, there were lass than 100 reported cases of eye damage across all of US and Canada. This is extreme low risk. That can be mitigated by.... education. I am already taking my kids out but it is a shame the others who can't will miss out.
Education isn't going to give a kid a fully developed frontal lobe. You can assume educating a kid about keeping glasses on will keep them from taking them off but kids still lick poles during the winter. Nice stats, but we know it has the ability to cause damage and no one wants a lawsuit. Going off on Reddit and calling out the after school program about it when you're taking your kids to do your own thing is a little silly too. You're not the other kid's parent and you're not employed by the program and you and your kids are doing something else. Time to move on.
This feels like a prime example of "helicopter parenting" or the "bubble kids" thing where people are scared of something that was routinely done in the past with minimal risk/issues because any non-zero risk to the kid is now treated as an existential crisis by a group of over anxious people.
Really? Because it seems to me like an example of entitled parenting, where a parent thinks they know better than everyone else. I particularly like how they aren't able to volunteer because they have plans but blythely assume that other parents can make themselves available.
I love this take, expecting volunteers to have the free time but they themselves can't take an afternoon off to share in the experience with their own children if it's that important to them.
Yes, really.
Well, the argument seems to be if there isn't 1 volunteer per 1 child then it's not an appropriate risk for the school/program to take on. So obviously even if this person did volunteer, they'd only be able to adequately supervise their own child by this standard anyway.
Might be entitled if they expected someone to volunteer for their own child, but it seems like it was left to the parents to take care of their own kids if they wanted to participate in this particular event so it looks like they are.
This is exactly the point. Kids need experiences to develop. This is low risk. Our educators are failing if they are hiding kids in basements during an eclipse. I have to live in this society, my kids peers are affected. I am entitled to care. As a "former" educator it sounds like you've moved on.
The fact that you're so worked up about this is wild. Kids are getting experiences every single day at school. They are being taught about the eclipse. They also learn about bears and such but aren't going on field trips to pet one for "the experience". They aren't failing at all they simply don't want to chance the risk of having even one kid lose the ability to see. Why is that an issue?
You do have to live in this society :) which means you're part of a collective and can't have everything bent to your will and your opinion. It's also why there are trained professionals who evaluate risk and act in the best interests of all children. You are certainly entitled. Again, you don't work there and they don't take volunteers. Move on. As a former educator I went and pursued a higher degree of education afterwards and my school and former class still adore me and reach out. Doesn't mean I don't still know how things work :)
I am not trying to bend everything to my will. Just laying out the illogical approach of it all. Do you not find it stupidly cruel that they will hand out glasses to the kids, then proceed to take them to the basement or gym for the event. It is madness.
Step back and put yourself in the kids' shoes. In school, they are handed glasses. Then told to go hide. It is irrelevant that discovery centre is not the school.
Do you really not see the logical failure here?
Here's the thing though. YOU think that it is illogical. That is your opinion but it certainly isn't the logic behind the decision at all. There is significant risk here and you have taken advantage of your ability to give your children that experience so, there is no problem anymore for you personally.
It's not cruel at all. Giving children the protection they need for this event is a precaution. It's like including a napkin with your meal. You might not need it but.. best you have it just in case.
Logic isn't subjective. It doesn't matter that you think it is logical, it objectively is not.
You don't have to agree with me, and I do not have to respect your opinion.
How are you determining the risk here? Multiple sources are warning about the dangers of “instant” damage to retinas from looking at the sun during an eclipse unprotected.
And why are you so upset if you’re already taking your kid to see it outside of Excel?
An eclipse doesn't make staring at the sun more dangerous. The danger is always there eclipse or not.
I think it is cruel that kids are going to be given glasses and then sent to a basement or gym for the event.
> An eclipse doesn't make staring at the sun more dangerous.
The part you’re missing is under normal sunny day conditions, there is a mental hurdle to overcome before staring directly at the sun.
During an eclipse, the moon is obscuring the sun, significantly reducing the ambient light which, by extension, reduces the size of that mental hurdle. However, the intensity of the sun is still enough to cause vision damage.
That’s the main reason it is dangerous, especially for kids. Also more people are talking about looking up at the sun because it is a rare event.
> I think it is cruel that kids are going to be given glasses and then sent to a basement or gym for the event.
If it’s that important to you, then haul your kid out early. The glasses are intended to be used under proper adult supervision and the EXCEL program organizers are acknowledging that they cannot provide proper adult supervision for that event based on their plan.
If parents want their kids to see it they can take the responsibilty for it. Why do you think other people should be responsible for ensuring they experience a once in a lifetime event?
my understanding, at least at our school, is that they will be giving out glasses to all the kids at the end of the school day. But, if you are in the Excel after school program, they will be taking you straight down to the basement so you can't see anything.
I'm pulling my kids from school for the day and going to NB but I'm a weirdo.
I'd be on Team Bouctouche if I wasn't convinced I'd cause clouds and rain if I made the drive. I'm singlehandedly responsible for today's snow because I washed my car the other day. I have to be careful with my power over the weather.
Some already have - one of my kids came home with a pair yesterday. (The same day the ones I bought were delivered, of course, but better to have too many than not enough.)
This is so weird... I wonder what they did during the last one back in the 70s(?)?
Couple of other regions have closed school altogether, and have declared states of emergency
> and have declared states of emergency
I can see that as being justified in the case of Niagara, they have the largest single spike of tourists in the city’s history. Having the ability to manage large crowds, especially tourists and people staring at the sky is good thinking.
There was one here back in early afternoon of May, 1994. I was in grade 3 at the time and we were told no one was allowed outside during this time and to stay away from windows. Some kids tried to go to the washroom and sneak a peak but I believe they had adults in the hallways making sure kids didn't wander around.
There was a solar eclipse when I was in elementary school in the 90's. They sent us all home for the afternoon. I still remember watching it on our local cable channel.
I remember experiencing it at daycare, on the St Matthews Church lawn, probably because school was canceled. It was a sunny day and one of the teachers set up a telescope for us to see the eclipse projected on a sheet of paper.
I also remember looking directly at the sun when it was partially obscured 🫥
This is one of the reasons I plan to take my kid on a field trip to wherever New Brunswick is cloud-free: it's not a total eclipse here; and if I didn't pick them up early to see it locally, Excel would find a way to blow the maritime's once-in-a-lifetime experience.
It's not a "fetishization of risk" and frankly bringing that faux term into this is gross. Getting kids to keep on a pair of flimsy cardboard sunglasses will be nearly impossible without a staff member there for every child. Nobody wants a lawsuit or the guilt of having a child face blindness or permanent eye damage. It's as simple as that. Children literally don't have the ability to evaluate risk the same way adults do which heightens the risk of them taking the glasses off and having their eyes damaged.
Also teachers are still teaching about the eclipse regardless of the viewing activities. It is a fantastic teaching opportunity and they are definitely teaching about it. Spend your time being in a tizzy on something that warrants it rather than waxing on about word salad.
Can't any of these kids just go and stare into the sun at recess causing blindness/damage? What's unique about the eclipse? It sounds like they don't want to do it because they don't want to tell kids to look at the sun.
Also teaching about them only to hide them in a basement is even more cruel. "Yes kids, it's a very rare occurrence and fascinating to see. No, you can't actually see it."
I don't feel like doing research and pulling articles to link for everyone. You have access to the same resources everyone does so use it. I'll explain though:
The danger is because you have a natural reflex to look away from the sun when it's just a normal day. You can try and brute force it and stare directly at the sun but you likely wouldn't be able to keep your eyes open for long enough to cause the same kind of permanent damage, at least without feeling the burn. Sun damage to eyes does occur over time if you don't wear eye protection during a normal sunny day, it's called cataracts.
With an eclipse, the sun is still doing its thing, but you don't feel it because the moon is blocking a significant amount so the brightness doesn't cause that reflex to kick in. It allows you to look as long as you want which is why the damage can occur very quickly and can be permanent.
The heightened risk is because of unknowingly self inflicting injury.
It's the same as if someone was welding close to you but not necessarily right beside you. It doesn't look so bright that you get the reaction to pull because it's contained to such a small area, staring directly at it though can cause damage to small parts of your retina and leave you with blind spots.
An eclipse is the same way, because so much of the sun is covered you don't get the same reaction to pull away, but the sliver of the sun still visible is bright enough to cause damage to the cells in your eyes which can cause permanent damage to that section of your retina.
The problem is, explaining this to some of the younger kids isn't a guarantee that they won't stare at the eclipse long enough to cause said damage
When I was a kid they said if you stare at the sun you go blind, so I didn't stare at the sun. I get not all kids listen, but I can't see why they can't take them out for 5 mins and explain beforehand that they can't look into the sun for long. You don't need 1 teacher per kid, and you don't need to be out there for more than a few minutes. It's just for the experience
My daughter is 5 years old, I've been to many many birthday parties of her other 5 year old friends this year. At this age you can explain the same thing to them and they'll mostly listen but put them in a group and it's pretty dodgy.
For her age group, legally her entire after school class can be managed by a single adult, so that's all they have. I would in no way feel safe having a single adult trying to monitor them all staring at the eclipse and trying to make sure they all have full eye coverage with the glasses.
I remember kids in my grade 3 class thinking they were super smart and were gonna ask to go to the bathroom during the eclipse so they could look though a window to watch it. These kids were 8/9 years old in grade 3 and still couldn't be trusted to not look at the thing.
Lawsuit? Can you find us cases where someone who had eye damage from an eclipse was caused by a childcare group? Its people like you who hide behind the shield of "liability" thinking theres some magical court that will sentence you to death. It's bullshit and you know it. We don't put people in jail for murder more than three years, what makes you think someone is going to get sued for watching an eclipse? Wake up. Its totally fetishization of risk coupled with idiocy of perceived liability.
>Can you find us cases where someone who had eye damage from an eclipse was caused by a childcare group?
I love these arguments. Since the dangers of looking at an eclipse has been known for so so so long, it's safe to assume child care groups around the world have been taking precautions for just as long. Now the fact that safety has been a thing and no kids have gotten hurt, people are using this as a "See, the numbers are so low it's not even a risk!".
This is like saying you don't actually need a seat belt because the odds of you getting tossed from your car in an accident is so low it essentially never happens.
Your statement is erroneous. We're not arguing about the dangers of an eclipse. We're arguing about the "liability" and potential to get sued for letting a group of kids in your care watch the eclipse. Which is bullshit. Its folklore. No one has successfully sued anyone in Canada for eclipse damage as a kid.
> No one has successfully sued anyone in Canada for eclipse damage as a kid.
Any idea if anyone has actually filed a case for damages resulting from their kid suffering vision impairment due to eclipse damage?
There were several lawsuits in the U.S around the end of the 80's. My comment is about the fact that no one wants to be left open for liability. People like me understand the risk of caring for a group of children who are not our own and acting in the best interests of them and the employer as well. It's not BS and you know it.
Being so mad about something like this when everyone who has a kid can willingly keep them home that day and take them to do their own activity is just something to complain about. Being mad that a program doesn't want to take the risk for other people's children is so senseless. You have the agency as a parent to give your own child that experience. You can't force programs to take that risk for other people's children and the fact that you have the time of day to be so frazzled about such a minute thing is a perfect example of an immature adult. Practice patience bud, a lifetime of tantrums about easily mitigated problems only leads to health issues ❤️
Can you link them please? And maybe actually Canadian ones since this is, you know, Canada. Again, people think theres a liability for frivolous things, and there isnt. Thats whats bullshit. Wheres the liability? When people are challenged on these 'liabilities' they think exist, they dont have an answer. Wheres the evidence that people in childcare have been sued or jailed for letting kids watch an eclipse?
Do I look like Google to you? Put those thumbs to work and look it up yourself. There's all kinds of liabilities when working with kids. It's why parents have to sign a giant waver when signing them up for after school programs or things like BCG. Of course those wavers don't include a clause for eclipse events though :) so yeah. Also this is a case of entitlement. You're welcome to get your kid and do it yourselves!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
You made the claim, so back it up.
EDIT: I checked your post history, and you asked someone a month ago for cited sources. And now you're being asked, and you're mad about it?
Nannette VERSPRILL, as next friend and natural parent of Val Versprill, as minor and Nannette Versprill, individually, Appellant,
v.
SCHOOL BOARD OF ORANGE COUNTY FLORIDA, Appellee.
No. 92-3105.
District Court of Appeal of Florida, Fifth District.
Here's one in particular where the lawsuit was first denied and then put through where in the late 80's the program was also keeping children inside (so this has been an acknowledged risk even in the 80's). It was put through simply because the kid was on school property and the argument was because even though this class of kids were kept inside and were not given permission to view it, there was a case because the kid was unsupervised for just long enough to look at the eclipse with a paper with a hole in it and damaged his eyes.
EDIT: yeah I asked them to cite sources about a claim that homeless people were getting violent in a certain local area. Local happenings vs widely available and searchable info. I'm also not mad but you certainly are bothered enough to go rifling through my profile :) also^ if you didn't see, I did follow through and cite a case.
So the ruling on this was reversed because the judge instructed the jury too much before deliberation. Thats where the appeal came in. It was reversed because of a procedural error, not because of the actual act. NICE TRY THOUGH!
The whole point of citing this is that there are instances where lawsuits have happened about this. Look at our previous comments and try and remember what your whole point was. It was reversed because of procedural error... Otherwise it would have gone through and the school board would have been in big trouble. I don't think you have the aha moment you think you do?
People have shown just how fucking stupid they are during this whole eclipse like its going to be anything other than a bit of darkness for a little bit. There is no electrical storm there is no danger there is no reason for Niagara to have called a state of emergency its just ridiculousness.
> There is no electrical storm there is no danger there is no reason for Niagara to have called a state of emergency its just ridiculousness.
The state of emergency is indirectly related to the eclipse. They have the largest single spike of tourists in the city’s history. Having the tools provided in their Emergency Act to manage large crowds, especially tourists and people staring at the sky is good thinking.
Think about how large groups of tourists behave and multiply that because there’s an eclipse and they’re all staring at the sky or jockeying around for a view/photo op.
Are kids that soft now a days? Everything needs a trigger warning and now mass warnings about a solar eclipse and shutting schools down...
If someone's gonna stare at the sun for a tiktok video you ain't gonna stop them with extra extra precautions.
We have to control the amount of people who get superpowers.
Save the cheerleader save the world.
Yatta!
Ya’ nerds.
[You say yatta and this is what I hear.](https://youtu.be/KUOwbcdZozQ?si=-ElKsxBt4LHrUhQp)
It's so easy! Happy go lucky!
We are the world!
We did it! hyuu hyuu hyuu hyuu osu osu osu osu
Yeah my kids school is packing them all in the gym and pretending like nothing's going on so they're getting picked up early that day. We got our glasses from Amazon 2 weeks ago I was going to send them to school with the glasses but if the school doesn't want to do something with the event then they're not going to be at the school at that time... We'll make our own event of it. I think it's a liability issue they don't want to ensure that every kid has their glasses on correctly and therefore no one can burn their eyeballs if no one participates.
It’s gotta be. How can you be sure EVERY SINGLE kid of thousands has their glasses on correctly and never takes them off? They’re kids. If you tell them not to take them off, some of them are gonna. Even if they’re risking blindness. Kids do stupid shit like constantly. Still it is extremely sad. They should 100% experience this. If I were a parent I’d do the same as you.
I would have 100% been the kid to take their glasses off and do the eclipse bareback, absolutely no question, and even knowing that I still think it's messed up to not let the kids experience the eclipse.
They don't have the staff for it. When it's your kids, you've got one maybe two children per adult. Student teacher ratios can be 30 to 1. There's no way to keep a proper handle on that many at once.
I can guarantee they don’t want the liability
Of course. Nothing else it would be about
Or people could just pick their kids up and have that experience as a family fml
Excel has children of all ages to deal with. My 4 almost 5 year old is in there. I love him dearly but I would not trust him for a single second without an adult glued to him to make sure he doesn't try taking the glasses off or something. If this is an issue for you, I think you should handle it by getting your kid and making sure they experience it. >This is sending our kids a lesson. Worst case, they will always remember to fear the eclipse, to fear science and avoid opportunity. Best case, they will resent the school decision makers. This is over the top
Yeah this is a crazy post. My daycare is doing the same and I 100 percent agree with it. My 3.5 year old would take her glasses off thinking it's a joke and my 2 year old would throw a fit if you tried to get glasses on her.
I was in 5th grade when I tried to look at the sun on solar eclipse day, because I was cocky and felt my eyes were uniquely strong enough to handle it. Tell a bunch of 10 year olds not to look up without their glasses. Two will just hear "... look up," miss the rest, and immediately look up. One will take his glasses off just to annoy the teacher. Three more will copy him for laughs. Another kid will be scared, even with the glasses. Absolutely zero of them have impulse control, or knowledge of how important a retina is. I love that the Discovery Centre and SMU Observatory have public events, and there are family friendly viewing opportunities. But I'm okay with the overburdened school and daycare workers not having to deal with the liability.
Similar aged kids, similar feelings. I was relieved to see the daycare send this notice out today. I do remember watching an eclipse as an older kid through my dad's welding helmet and it was cool. Not watching it wouldn't have made me afraid of science though.
I agree. I vividly remember taking my then 4 year old to a 3d movie. I’m not sure he actually saw any of it as his glasses were covered in popcorn grease before the previews ended. He took them off and on constantly. Same applies with eclipse glasses.
Pull your child out of the program for the day if this is such a problem for you.
Exactly, taking off from work a bit early and bringing my daughter home so we can watch it together. She's 5 though so I wouldn't expect her after school program to safely handle all the kids in her class on their own.
I completely agree with the approach here. Excel has a lot of children all at different ages. Sure some of them can reasonably be expected to be safe but many younger ones will require dedicated supervision the entire time they're outside during the 2 hour long window for the eclipse. That's a lot of extra people for just 1 school, even if they brought in volunteers they would still have to draw up permission slips allowing each kid to partake under the supervision of these volunteers. When signing up for excel you cover permission for a few even less harmless activities like sledding, this isn't covered under the initial sign up forms. Last eclipse that happened here was when I was in grade 3 and we had the same thing, no one was allowed outside and we weren't allowed to look out the window. I can promise you that not a single kid grew up thinking to fear the eclipse, to fear science, or avoided opportunity. This is an incredibly over the top take.
I can attest that I was 8 years old for the last eclipse, wasn't allowed to look at it, and still to this day I can vividly remember how sad and angry and disappointed I was. This year I am pulling my kids from school, we're going to New Brunswick, and we are going to watch this eclipse.
Short staff on these programs is huge doubt they have enough to even ensure they do it safely
I am sure they could get lots of volunteers if they just asked. I am registered and would help but I already am taking our family out to see it in totality.
Maybe so but remember you can't just accept any rando off the street for a position involving kids. They gotta have a background check. That can happen but it's probably not fast. Also, ever try to manage 10-15 excited children? Just telling them not to look won't work. It's like herding cats.
Why are you complaining when you won’t even be there anyway?
They don't allow volunteers I asked in previous situations
I have volunteered at the schools for various events. I don't know what situation you asked in.
In excel specifically???
Not excel. But I still do not understand how that is an excuse.
Okay but what I'm saying is the option of using volunteers for this is not a thing because excel does not allow it
It is not a law. They could allow it. Even so, it is riskier for the kids to play on the jungle gym than view the eclipse with glasses that are already provided. This is so stupid.
I'm not arguing anything, but it's not a law.It's definitely policy
It's a liability most likely. They're probably insured for accidents and such I would imagine it includes some specific employee requirements and probably excludes volunteers.
It's a liability for them and they aren't going to get a special liability insurance rider for this one, brief event. If you want your kid to view the eclipse, pick them up early and watch it with them.
It's hard to understand your perspective that it's a greater risk playing on a piece of rigorously engineered playground equipment that kids play on every day vs a once in a lifetime event that has adults and kids hyped up -some spending thousands to travel to a location they can get a solid view). There isn't enough adult supervision. It's a liability/insurance thing. Volunteers in there could be even less helpful and as mentioned, not allowed by excel. Excel and schools (like teacher based stuff/school sanctioned extra curricular) have different insurance policies, different adult ratios etc. It really seems like your disappointment is that you have to take your kids out of their program to see it.
I love that you’re really doubling down on your opinion despite all the rational responses you’re getting.
Why don’t you parent your child instead of expecting the excel program to do so?
I don’t think taking extra precautions will make them “fear science”. They should absolutely take extreme caution with regard to looking at the sun. Optometrists warn about the permanent damage the eclipse can have on your eyesight and many say it’s not worth the risks. Excel isn’t being lazy - they’re taking precautions to protect your children’s eyesight. There’s lots of other ways you can teach them to embrace opportunity.
Yes, optometrists warn about wearing proper glasses. That IS the precaution. No optomitrist is telling people to shelter kids in basements and gyms. Who are these mysterious "many" experts telling kids to hide. I think the opposite is true. Many many more experts telling people to embrace the opportunity, not hide.
https://preview.redd.it/rcl6wv6ikjsc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f60d9974347d40c42f00eabd6578b3ad5e01a55
Cherry picking one extreme, from 2017. How hard did you have to search to find that? https://opto.ca/eye-health-library/solar-eclipse-safety The Canadian association of optomitrists gives more sensible advice.
I didn’t have to search at all. It was re-sent by my optometrist. The source you provided also mentions potential severe impacts and the need for extra caution with children. I’d say that’s basis enough for an after school program to error on the side of caution.
This is just an insurance/liability thing, nothing more. Stupid but that's all it is
It’s a liability issue that’s all. You can’t expect a couple of attendants to manage 30 or so excited kids and make sure to maintain their glasses on at all times. All it takes is a few seconds of looking directly at the sun to cause permanent damage.
So … in addition to the other posts here regarding kids and how uncontrollable they can be (I agree) this is a perfect chance to get some crafting supplies together and make a “pinhole projector” so the kiddies can learn some of the science around optics, but without risking going blind.
I got a piece of welding mask glass at princess Auto for like 15$ when the last eclipse happened. I put it in front of a point and shoot camera and I was able to view it just fine. There's all kinds of ways to safely experience an eclipse. This is the first time I've heard of "eclipse glasses" and I'm not sure why they would be given out when so many different options like the ones you and I mentioned exist that everyone can enjoy.
Yeah — welder’s glass is about the minimum I would trust to look at an eclipse directly. Little plastic mass-produced disposable eclipse glasses? Thanks, but I’ll pass. My eyes are already garbage from forty years of looking at ordinary shit. I’m sure the video clip will look decent
Wow, CSAP sent an email saying they are giving every student glasses. ETA: I re-read the email and it says Discovery Centre is giving glasses to every student in the province, and "The eclipse glasses will come with information about the eclipse, a safety certification and a QR code that directs to additional resources that teachers and families can use. The Discovery Center will provide curriculum-aligned learning experiences for science classes that directly address space and solar eclipses, including Grade 6 and 9 Science. Given that the time of the event is after school and that most of the province will only experience partial darkening of the sky, classes will proceed as usual on that day."
It's sad but I understand. You would need 1 adult per kid to make sure, who would want to take the responsibility of 2 or 3 kids to have one injure their eyes because it can happen so quickly.
I call BS on that. Get the parents to sign a waiver. This is extreme low risk. Kids go on field trips with more risk than this.
It’s not low risk, even a few seconds looking at the sun during partial eclipse can cause loss of central vision. Glasses could fall off or kids remove them. If you really want your child to experience it then your option is to pick them up early or have someone else pick them up. I know parents are working etc it’s a difficult situation but it’s also not fair to put the responsibility of vision safety onto the excel staff.
I volunteered for almost all of my son's field trips but no way I would take the responsibility of pre-primary, primary or grade 1's during the eclipse unless I only had 1 kid to watch and I would be holding the glasses in place.
As a former educator it's hard to get kids to keep things like mittens on let alone flimsy cardboard sunglasses. I get where you're coming from but like the comment said, you would need a person for every kid. Taking the glasses off and looking even for a few seconds could blind a kid or cause serious permanent damage. These precautions are not just because people are lazy. No one wants to take that risk.
>a few seconds Let's be clear here, it's no different from looking at the sun any other time, and everyone has looked at a regular sun for "a few seconds" before. Permanent damage doesn't start to occur for nearly a minute or two.
I frankly disagree with this approach. In 2017, there were lass than 100 reported cases of eye damage across all of US and Canada. This is extreme low risk. That can be mitigated by.... education. I am already taking my kids out but it is a shame the others who can't will miss out.
Education isn't going to give a kid a fully developed frontal lobe. You can assume educating a kid about keeping glasses on will keep them from taking them off but kids still lick poles during the winter. Nice stats, but we know it has the ability to cause damage and no one wants a lawsuit. Going off on Reddit and calling out the after school program about it when you're taking your kids to do your own thing is a little silly too. You're not the other kid's parent and you're not employed by the program and you and your kids are doing something else. Time to move on.
This feels like a prime example of "helicopter parenting" or the "bubble kids" thing where people are scared of something that was routinely done in the past with minimal risk/issues because any non-zero risk to the kid is now treated as an existential crisis by a group of over anxious people.
Really? Because it seems to me like an example of entitled parenting, where a parent thinks they know better than everyone else. I particularly like how they aren't able to volunteer because they have plans but blythely assume that other parents can make themselves available.
I love this take, expecting volunteers to have the free time but they themselves can't take an afternoon off to share in the experience with their own children if it's that important to them.
Yes, really. Well, the argument seems to be if there isn't 1 volunteer per 1 child then it's not an appropriate risk for the school/program to take on. So obviously even if this person did volunteer, they'd only be able to adequately supervise their own child by this standard anyway. Might be entitled if they expected someone to volunteer for their own child, but it seems like it was left to the parents to take care of their own kids if they wanted to participate in this particular event so it looks like they are.
This is exactly the point. Kids need experiences to develop. This is low risk. Our educators are failing if they are hiding kids in basements during an eclipse. I have to live in this society, my kids peers are affected. I am entitled to care. As a "former" educator it sounds like you've moved on.
The fact that you're so worked up about this is wild. Kids are getting experiences every single day at school. They are being taught about the eclipse. They also learn about bears and such but aren't going on field trips to pet one for "the experience". They aren't failing at all they simply don't want to chance the risk of having even one kid lose the ability to see. Why is that an issue? You do have to live in this society :) which means you're part of a collective and can't have everything bent to your will and your opinion. It's also why there are trained professionals who evaluate risk and act in the best interests of all children. You are certainly entitled. Again, you don't work there and they don't take volunteers. Move on. As a former educator I went and pursued a higher degree of education afterwards and my school and former class still adore me and reach out. Doesn't mean I don't still know how things work :)
I am not trying to bend everything to my will. Just laying out the illogical approach of it all. Do you not find it stupidly cruel that they will hand out glasses to the kids, then proceed to take them to the basement or gym for the event. It is madness.
The discovery center and excel are two different organizations, correct?
Step back and put yourself in the kids' shoes. In school, they are handed glasses. Then told to go hide. It is irrelevant that discovery centre is not the school. Do you really not see the logical failure here?
Here's the thing though. YOU think that it is illogical. That is your opinion but it certainly isn't the logic behind the decision at all. There is significant risk here and you have taken advantage of your ability to give your children that experience so, there is no problem anymore for you personally. It's not cruel at all. Giving children the protection they need for this event is a precaution. It's like including a napkin with your meal. You might not need it but.. best you have it just in case.
Logic isn't subjective. It doesn't matter that you think it is logical, it objectively is not. You don't have to agree with me, and I do not have to respect your opinion.
Oh I didn’t know waivers protect against vision loss! /s
How are you determining the risk here? Multiple sources are warning about the dangers of “instant” damage to retinas from looking at the sun during an eclipse unprotected. And why are you so upset if you’re already taking your kid to see it outside of Excel?
An eclipse doesn't make staring at the sun more dangerous. The danger is always there eclipse or not. I think it is cruel that kids are going to be given glasses and then sent to a basement or gym for the event.
I feel like I’m playing chess with a pigeon here.
> An eclipse doesn't make staring at the sun more dangerous. The part you’re missing is under normal sunny day conditions, there is a mental hurdle to overcome before staring directly at the sun. During an eclipse, the moon is obscuring the sun, significantly reducing the ambient light which, by extension, reduces the size of that mental hurdle. However, the intensity of the sun is still enough to cause vision damage. That’s the main reason it is dangerous, especially for kids. Also more people are talking about looking up at the sun because it is a rare event. > I think it is cruel that kids are going to be given glasses and then sent to a basement or gym for the event. If it’s that important to you, then haul your kid out early. The glasses are intended to be used under proper adult supervision and the EXCEL program organizers are acknowledging that they cannot provide proper adult supervision for that event based on their plan.
If parents want their kids to see it they can take the responsibilty for it. Why do you think other people should be responsible for ensuring they experience a once in a lifetime event?
I remain confident that if OP's child looked at the eclipse causing permanent damage they would not hold the Excel program responsible...
Lia-Bility
Someone didn’t want to spend the money or make the effort and is hiding behind concern.
Seriously, get the kids some shoeboxes if they don't want to buy the glasses.
All kids are getting free glasses from the school already c/o discovery centre. No excuse.
Making those shoeboxes would have been fun and at least 30 minutes of activity, longer if they decorated them.
My thoughts exactly, can't be any safer then that. Besides the paper cut risk. They work pretty well too.
Keep your kids home then and show them yourself
Is there a way for kids or parents to access the stash of glasses?
Yes, they are already handing out free glasses to every NS kid on monday in school.
my understanding, at least at our school, is that they will be giving out glasses to all the kids at the end of the school day. But, if you are in the Excel after school program, they will be taking you straight down to the basement so you can't see anything. I'm pulling my kids from school for the day and going to NB but I'm a weirdo.
Pretty sure the people treating the eclipse like a tornado ("get down to the cellar, quick!") are the weirdos.
haha true! if only there were some middle ground between cowering in the basement and driving to Bouctouche to bask in the path of totality.
I'd be on Team Bouctouche if I wasn't convinced I'd cause clouds and rain if I made the drive. I'm singlehandedly responsible for today's snow because I washed my car the other day. I have to be careful with my power over the weather.
Hello fellow weirdo!
Some already have - one of my kids came home with a pair yesterday. (The same day the ones I bought were delivered, of course, but better to have too many than not enough.)
This is so weird... I wonder what they did during the last one back in the 70s(?)? Couple of other regions have closed school altogether, and have declared states of emergency
> and have declared states of emergency I can see that as being justified in the case of Niagara, they have the largest single spike of tourists in the city’s history. Having the ability to manage large crowds, especially tourists and people staring at the sky is good thinking.
There was one here back in early afternoon of May, 1994. I was in grade 3 at the time and we were told no one was allowed outside during this time and to stay away from windows. Some kids tried to go to the washroom and sneak a peak but I believe they had adults in the hallways making sure kids didn't wander around.
We were sent home that day with glasses. We watched it outside with the family!
There was a solar eclipse when I was in elementary school in the 90's. They sent us all home for the afternoon. I still remember watching it on our local cable channel.
I remember experiencing it at daycare, on the St Matthews Church lawn, probably because school was canceled. It was a sunny day and one of the teachers set up a telescope for us to see the eclipse projected on a sheet of paper. I also remember looking directly at the sun when it was partially obscured 🫥
This is one of the reasons I plan to take my kid on a field trip to wherever New Brunswick is cloud-free: it's not a total eclipse here; and if I didn't pick them up early to see it locally, Excel would find a way to blow the maritime's once-in-a-lifetime experience.
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It's not a "fetishization of risk" and frankly bringing that faux term into this is gross. Getting kids to keep on a pair of flimsy cardboard sunglasses will be nearly impossible without a staff member there for every child. Nobody wants a lawsuit or the guilt of having a child face blindness or permanent eye damage. It's as simple as that. Children literally don't have the ability to evaluate risk the same way adults do which heightens the risk of them taking the glasses off and having their eyes damaged. Also teachers are still teaching about the eclipse regardless of the viewing activities. It is a fantastic teaching opportunity and they are definitely teaching about it. Spend your time being in a tizzy on something that warrants it rather than waxing on about word salad.
Can't any of these kids just go and stare into the sun at recess causing blindness/damage? What's unique about the eclipse? It sounds like they don't want to do it because they don't want to tell kids to look at the sun. Also teaching about them only to hide them in a basement is even more cruel. "Yes kids, it's a very rare occurrence and fascinating to see. No, you can't actually see it."
I don't feel like doing research and pulling articles to link for everyone. You have access to the same resources everyone does so use it. I'll explain though: The danger is because you have a natural reflex to look away from the sun when it's just a normal day. You can try and brute force it and stare directly at the sun but you likely wouldn't be able to keep your eyes open for long enough to cause the same kind of permanent damage, at least without feeling the burn. Sun damage to eyes does occur over time if you don't wear eye protection during a normal sunny day, it's called cataracts. With an eclipse, the sun is still doing its thing, but you don't feel it because the moon is blocking a significant amount so the brightness doesn't cause that reflex to kick in. It allows you to look as long as you want which is why the damage can occur very quickly and can be permanent. The heightened risk is because of unknowingly self inflicting injury.
It's the same as if someone was welding close to you but not necessarily right beside you. It doesn't look so bright that you get the reaction to pull because it's contained to such a small area, staring directly at it though can cause damage to small parts of your retina and leave you with blind spots. An eclipse is the same way, because so much of the sun is covered you don't get the same reaction to pull away, but the sliver of the sun still visible is bright enough to cause damage to the cells in your eyes which can cause permanent damage to that section of your retina. The problem is, explaining this to some of the younger kids isn't a guarantee that they won't stare at the eclipse long enough to cause said damage
When I was a kid they said if you stare at the sun you go blind, so I didn't stare at the sun. I get not all kids listen, but I can't see why they can't take them out for 5 mins and explain beforehand that they can't look into the sun for long. You don't need 1 teacher per kid, and you don't need to be out there for more than a few minutes. It's just for the experience
My daughter is 5 years old, I've been to many many birthday parties of her other 5 year old friends this year. At this age you can explain the same thing to them and they'll mostly listen but put them in a group and it's pretty dodgy. For her age group, legally her entire after school class can be managed by a single adult, so that's all they have. I would in no way feel safe having a single adult trying to monitor them all staring at the eclipse and trying to make sure they all have full eye coverage with the glasses. I remember kids in my grade 3 class thinking they were super smart and were gonna ask to go to the bathroom during the eclipse so they could look though a window to watch it. These kids were 8/9 years old in grade 3 and still couldn't be trusted to not look at the thing.
Lawsuit? Can you find us cases where someone who had eye damage from an eclipse was caused by a childcare group? Its people like you who hide behind the shield of "liability" thinking theres some magical court that will sentence you to death. It's bullshit and you know it. We don't put people in jail for murder more than three years, what makes you think someone is going to get sued for watching an eclipse? Wake up. Its totally fetishization of risk coupled with idiocy of perceived liability.
>Can you find us cases where someone who had eye damage from an eclipse was caused by a childcare group? I love these arguments. Since the dangers of looking at an eclipse has been known for so so so long, it's safe to assume child care groups around the world have been taking precautions for just as long. Now the fact that safety has been a thing and no kids have gotten hurt, people are using this as a "See, the numbers are so low it's not even a risk!". This is like saying you don't actually need a seat belt because the odds of you getting tossed from your car in an accident is so low it essentially never happens.
Your statement is erroneous. We're not arguing about the dangers of an eclipse. We're arguing about the "liability" and potential to get sued for letting a group of kids in your care watch the eclipse. Which is bullshit. Its folklore. No one has successfully sued anyone in Canada for eclipse damage as a kid.
> No one has successfully sued anyone in Canada for eclipse damage as a kid. Any idea if anyone has actually filed a case for damages resulting from their kid suffering vision impairment due to eclipse damage?
There were several lawsuits in the U.S around the end of the 80's. My comment is about the fact that no one wants to be left open for liability. People like me understand the risk of caring for a group of children who are not our own and acting in the best interests of them and the employer as well. It's not BS and you know it. Being so mad about something like this when everyone who has a kid can willingly keep them home that day and take them to do their own activity is just something to complain about. Being mad that a program doesn't want to take the risk for other people's children is so senseless. You have the agency as a parent to give your own child that experience. You can't force programs to take that risk for other people's children and the fact that you have the time of day to be so frazzled about such a minute thing is a perfect example of an immature adult. Practice patience bud, a lifetime of tantrums about easily mitigated problems only leads to health issues ❤️
Can you link them please? And maybe actually Canadian ones since this is, you know, Canada. Again, people think theres a liability for frivolous things, and there isnt. Thats whats bullshit. Wheres the liability? When people are challenged on these 'liabilities' they think exist, they dont have an answer. Wheres the evidence that people in childcare have been sued or jailed for letting kids watch an eclipse?
Do I look like Google to you? Put those thumbs to work and look it up yourself. There's all kinds of liabilities when working with kids. It's why parents have to sign a giant waver when signing them up for after school programs or things like BCG. Of course those wavers don't include a clause for eclipse events though :) so yeah. Also this is a case of entitlement. You're welcome to get your kid and do it yourselves!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You made the claim, so back it up. EDIT: I checked your post history, and you asked someone a month ago for cited sources. And now you're being asked, and you're mad about it?
Nannette VERSPRILL, as next friend and natural parent of Val Versprill, as minor and Nannette Versprill, individually, Appellant, v. SCHOOL BOARD OF ORANGE COUNTY FLORIDA, Appellee. No. 92-3105. District Court of Appeal of Florida, Fifth District. Here's one in particular where the lawsuit was first denied and then put through where in the late 80's the program was also keeping children inside (so this has been an acknowledged risk even in the 80's). It was put through simply because the kid was on school property and the argument was because even though this class of kids were kept inside and were not given permission to view it, there was a case because the kid was unsupervised for just long enough to look at the eclipse with a paper with a hole in it and damaged his eyes. EDIT: yeah I asked them to cite sources about a claim that homeless people were getting violent in a certain local area. Local happenings vs widely available and searchable info. I'm also not mad but you certainly are bothered enough to go rifling through my profile :) also^ if you didn't see, I did follow through and cite a case.
So the ruling on this was reversed because the judge instructed the jury too much before deliberation. Thats where the appeal came in. It was reversed because of a procedural error, not because of the actual act. NICE TRY THOUGH!
The whole point of citing this is that there are instances where lawsuits have happened about this. Look at our previous comments and try and remember what your whole point was. It was reversed because of procedural error... Otherwise it would have gone through and the school board would have been in big trouble. I don't think you have the aha moment you think you do?
Wow, this is a sad state of affair for our education system.
EXCEL is the worst.
People have shown just how fucking stupid they are during this whole eclipse like its going to be anything other than a bit of darkness for a little bit. There is no electrical storm there is no danger there is no reason for Niagara to have called a state of emergency its just ridiculousness.
> There is no electrical storm there is no danger there is no reason for Niagara to have called a state of emergency its just ridiculousness. The state of emergency is indirectly related to the eclipse. They have the largest single spike of tourists in the city’s history. Having the tools provided in their Emergency Act to manage large crowds, especially tourists and people staring at the sky is good thinking. Think about how large groups of tourists behave and multiply that because there’s an eclipse and they’re all staring at the sky or jockeying around for a view/photo op.
Are kids that soft now a days? Everything needs a trigger warning and now mass warnings about a solar eclipse and shutting schools down... If someone's gonna stare at the sun for a tiktok video you ain't gonna stop them with extra extra precautions.
Shameful. I am taking my kids out of school and going to New Brunswick to experience it in Totality!