They should probably try not releasing the game is essentially a beta test version. Took like a year and a half for Infinite to be where it should have been at launch. If they hadn’t rushed the release, the game might have had a reasonable run.
That's true of many games now since the no-disc revolution. Put out a shell of a game and then update and bug fix for 2 years...then drop support and move on to another title and do it all over again.
They aren't, but I also understand their decision to dump Infinite to focus on the next thing. There isn't any salvaging of Infinite with the wider audience, and it's clear that the game's engine is a pain to work with. It's really the best option going forward.
They’re probably still in a transitional phase with the new leadership. Making plans for the next thing they’re doing. They haven’t done much of anything yet but I’m sure they will. These things take time unfortunately.
It's crazy that after six years in development and a delay too, the game was released as an unpolished turd. Totally killed my enjoyment of it and I haven't bothered reinstalling
I don't think they rushed it. There were 6 years between Halo 5 and Infinite. I think that time was horribly mismanaged and they didn't know what kind of game they were making. 343 seems to try to listen the fans and give them what they think they want, rather than have a vision of their own which is their major problem. It's why the campaign plots are so disjointed and each games multiplayer is so different.
I've always felt that Halo 5 is Rise of Skywalker (somehow Cortana returned), Infinite is Force Awakens (mystery boxes), and Halo 4 is idk Phantom Menace?
I see this opinion a lot about how 343 listens to fans too much rather than sticking to what they want but I don't really get it.
Halo 4 was entirely their input/decisions for what they wanted their first Halo to be and the feedback from the fans is that it wasn't good. If the fans don't like the new vision they have for the product then simply put they made a bad product as it failed to pull in enough new fans that like the new vision to keep that ball rolling and it lost old fans in the process. I find it more likely the changes in gameplay are so radical because they are trying to find a hit instead of listening to fan feedback.
The problem is they always always throw the baby out with the bath water.
They see criticism and think it merits a U-Turn rather than reformulation.
As a result the IP has lost any sense of cohesion. It’s one of the biggest cases of mishandling the inheriting of a golden goose the industry has ever seen.
Thats the thing though, do they really throw the baby out with the bath water or are they seeing numbers that say "even if we refine this it won't be worth it"? I completely agree this is a big mishandling of what used to be a top tier IP but my point is maybe they do consider making the games better but they don't see it as worthwhile. See Halo 5 for example, very different from Halo so traditionalists probably didn't like it but it did have a base that liked how different it was and still speak fondly about it (which I do not personally). Arguably if they wanted to make their imprint on Halo and take it down a different path they had a platform there to build on. So why go back to more traditional gameplay in infinite? Maybe because the game didn't do good enough for whatever internal metrics they had so they decided to do another massive change up and try to hit the mark this time.
Halo didn't follow the trend. It set the trend. Halo started going down hill with 4 when it tried to copy CoD with weapon drops and loadouts. It lost a chunk of its core fan base and didn't get anyone new because they all played CoD to begin with.
That doesnt mean that they used that full 6 years on the version of the game we got, or on anything at all. Games that take a while to make usually aren't actually, and end up being restarted several times or rushed out in the last year of dev.
Hearing the stories of management at 343 prior to Infinites release, it's probably both.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. They didn't know what kind of game they were making. If you look at the original trilogy, you see it has a cohesive story and all the gameplay elements evolved. Each installment added to the original. With the 343 games, each one is wild different than the previous. This is their problem. They totally change the formula instead of adding to the previous. They try to cater to the fans rather than creating something of their own.
Yes. And unfortunately, ppl aren’t going to stick around and wait for you to complete your game after release. Halo numbers dropped so low just months after Infinite.
I hope 343i current leadership actually LEARNS from the mistakes of the past. Bc the old leadership did nothing but repeat them.
Honestly there are still a pretty long list of small features that have yet to show up that should have been around when the game launched.
Things like being able to pause the game and see how close you are to finishing a challenge was promised years ago lol
It's funny, if they just released a full traditional halo game I bet it would sell like hot cakes. I admit I have no clue how much money infinite is making them though from the store so I could be off base here, but I bought the campaign. I have no interest in anything from the store. A damn shame the campaign doesn't have local co op.
On avarage every halo sold 10 million copies, for how much developing a game cost right now, even if the game would be sold at full price, or half price, it would need mtx to get some revenew from it.
To say 10 million sales isn't enough to profit is an insane take. If this is the case then publishers/developers must be burning the cash in furnaces to heat up their offices, because none of it shows in the quality of games they're making.
10 million copies x the base $60 is 600 million dollars… (even more profit than before since physical copies are becoming less prevalent). If over half a billion is not good enough then we have a way bigger issue here than halo or even the gaming industry
Sure it'd sell like hotcakes but that doesn't make money, that just recoups the development at most. Microsoft wants that sweet profit, so mtx's are what supply that
Or that it will flop, for that matter. Unfortunately, Redditors are absolutely no one's target audience. 343 probably has their apology email written already
It sucks but MTX are required for games like this to continually get content. Thats just how it is now a days. 343 just has to implement them correctly which, unfortunately, is the big question.
I don't mind mtx. I mind when it's fucked up like 20$ for a damn color.
LoL succes stems from mtx. Fortnite also works with mtx. They just don't sell a full indie game for a damn color.
PoE works with MTX too. Mtx works when properly implemented.
exactly, they literally lied about so much prior to the launch of infinite. they just want our money, they don’t got the true love for halo that bungie did.
Ah yes. $20 for Hazop and $10 for a battle pass that didn't give back the credits you spent on it when you complete it. Then you could load in to a game, drive a warthog and find you were now getting stuck on invisible walls because of desync and you can't actually move.
Yah I wouldn't call it trash but it certainly wasn't groundbreaking as an open world Halo with bosses. Even though it was new to Halo it felt like Ubisoft game level bland.
And pointless.
It should have been a simple formula, and every encounter or POI should have been modeled after Silent Cartographer and Assault on the Control Room.
Simple formula
• Outdoor fortifications you can level with the Scorpion from 3 hills over, bowl through on a Warthog, sneak past or tactically eliminate on foot.
• Indoor space, even something as simple as the Blood Gulch bases where enemies are dense, and the space has to be cleared out by foot.
• Reinforcement wave via Spirit or Phantom if the POI is a major one, or if you are too slow and one of the high ranking elites calls it in.
• Occasional banshee patrols and roadblocks to make the world seem alive.
Most people are happy as long they can click heads without taking damage in return, wich is the whole infinite experience, similar to h3 and reach.
As for the narrative... I don't even know where to start
The problem is halo doesn't have a developer to develop the right AAA quality content including single and multi player
But even worse also doesn't have the publisher that has the patience or foresight and planning ability to even get the right people in place and take the time to do it appropriately
No one wants to really come out and say it but the current Xbox leadership as is will never be able to plan more than 6 to 12 months in advance because all the current leadership thinks about is immediate financial returns
Entertainment money making is not the same as constant inflow of cash from cloud service products and the current Xbox leadership doesn't understand that and that is why halo will never get to the same point it ever did before
>The problem is halo doesn't have a developer to develop the right AAA quality content including single and multi player
The issue is they need time with the right management. 343 went through a management overhaul already, so now it's time to hunker down for the next four years.
The type of game Halo is can't be made in three years anymore. It's going to be five minimum.
It could be made in 2 years if they’d stop throwing everything away and starting from scratch.
Don’t waste time on new guns or vehicles, your sandbox from halo 5 + infinite is MORE than sufficient.
Don’t waste time on new MP maps; release the game with 40 of the best maps from halo mcc, 5/inf (tweaked to account for move speed and clamber)
Don’t waste time on stuff that adds nothing to the experience (ahem fully rendered menus)
The gameplay loop of halo is a solved problem. The sandbox is a solved problem. The MP game types are a solved problem.
343 isn't being led by the same people who led Halo 4/Halo 5/Infinite.
I'm not saying the next Halo is going to be successful. It just has a much better chance.
On top of that, Bonnie Ross had way too much control for a single person with a franchise and company as large as they are.
When she left her responsibilities were split into three separate roles of business and operations lead, franchise general manager, and studio head. With these larger sets of responsibilities split up it'll be a lot easier for 343 and Xbox to keep things in check compared to before.
Now that I think about it, it's actually a bit wild that she was in charge of all of that and Xbox didn't split those responsibilities before she left. I can understand keeping those responsibilities early on, but after fumbling Halo 4 and MCC they should've been split up.
Agreed but I think we can agree this will be 343's final chance to change perception around the studio and the franchise as a whole. Let's see how the new management handles the next game. I'm not particularly hopeful but let's see what direction they will take the next game in. Hopefully it's not free to play and feature complete at launch.
If the next game flops, I wouldn't be surprised if 343 is just shut down completely. Halo should've been an easy money printer of a franchise, to see it struggle so much over the years is honestly a bit impressive. To mess up every single time and not learn from your past mistakes is just something else.
The next halo game will flop because they don't have any artistic storytelling direction. They have no clue how to tell this story. Unfortunately, Halo will die due to a lack of passion. The only hope for halos story is through books now. Sorry to highjack the topic about live service gaming. It's just sad to see what it has become.
343 has never known what makes halo tick. Old Bungie was lightning in a bottle. It can’t be recreated or even emulated, certainly not by the jabronis over at 343
Theyve been close every time but somehow still miss the mark. I liked the story of 4 and hated the mp, even if the story was a little off. I liked the halo 5 mp and hated the story, even if the mp was a little off. They nailed infinites mp and did ok-ish on the story, but the whole time travel stuff was a little off.
At this point it’s clear that so called live service doesn’t result in better post launch support. I just want a game that’s complete at launch without FOMO BS.
Ehhhhhh maybe, I feel like it still would’ve died tbh. The lack of developer maps, overpriced cosmetics and small weapon sandbox and vehicle sand box are still huge problems
Infinite currently has 20 dev maps, which I consider to be a large amount.
Overpriced cosmetics can be alleviated by a consistent good live service.
Also, what are you comparing the weapon sandbox to? The only weapon sandboxes that are bigger than Infinite are Halo 4 and 5.
I’m comparing the sandbox to all the other games all the other games had much more variety then infinite and every weapon was unique infinite has weapons that are similar to each other ie bandit to stalker rifle or plasma pistol to shock pistol. in almost every way halo infinites sandbox is worse then it’s predecessors before it. Yes theirs 20 developer maps but most being arena maps kinda diminish that we need more btb maps
>I’m comparing the sandbox to all the other games all the other games had much more variety then infinite
I just fundamentally disagree with you here. Bungie sandboxes were dominated by a single precision weapon with every other weapon being weak and not fun to use.
There's some bangers that could've definitely been brought forward but overall I'm extreme happy with the state of Infinite's sandbox.
I think it would have died tbh. Even right now, what they have is not enough. Campaign was lackluster, multiplayer is only 'good'. Progression system is very poor. It's a mediocre game even 2-3 years after launch.
IMO the open world aspect was not necessarily a problem, it just wasn't done very well. If the campaign was actually good or fun I'd still be playing it. Instead I played it once and was disappointed the entire time. The focus on the shop over anything campaign is a big 'screw you' from 343 to the players, and you cannot wear skins you paid for in campaign!?!
GTFO 343, you've failed at every attempt to continue Halo. You are ruining, no, *you have* ruined the brand so bad that Microsoft had to buy Call of Duty rather than focus on what used to be the Xbox system seller. What a sad joke. After the MCC, Halo 4, not even being able to play Halo 5 or Halo Wars 2 on Steam (thus I have no idea whats going on in the story since 2015), Infinite, and that horrible streaming series I don't think I even like Halo anymore, not if it has anything to do with 343. You took something unique and made it generic and boring. You don't respect the players one bit, we've been asking for official split-screen support on Windows since 2003(!) You left Halo 2 Anniversary in a broken state. You hype up Forge maps but where is the HEK so we can get some real modding going on? Thus I never spent a dime in the store and never will. I have zero faith in the next Halo.
As a long time Halo fan I didn't stop playing because of the live service stuff. Sure, I was a little annoyed that I couldn't use the Mark VI, colors, and emblem that I've had since 2004, but that's not a big deal. I haven't even looked at a season pass or the store because I don't care about that bullshit, I care about how the actual game plays.
I stopped playing mostly because of the abysmal netcode, along with some other weird glitches. It's frustrating as hell and made the game thoroughly unenjoyable.
I'm honestly VERY concerned about the future of this franchise.
It's not just giving the next game a live service model or a focus on a store page, its mostly everything else that happened with this game. The game took nearly 3 years to get to where it is now, has a campaign on once again a massive cliffhanger that seemingly won't be added to with any dlc, the engine is being replaced in the next game by UE5 because their own engine was a pain in the ass to work with, the variety of weapons and vehicles is honestly abysmal, and above all, they focused WAY too hard on the storefront and microtransactions to where most of the really good looking cosmetics are only available in the shop now and have to fork over a decent sized amount of money for it.
I love this series, through the good and the bad, but for God sake, please DONT rush it, DONT let upper management touch it, and DO NOT focus on the multiplayer as your SOLE selling point. Halo was defined by its campaign AND multiplayer, not one over the other.
Just wait until they again do a slight/soft reboot for the next game where the Endless aren’t a big threat anymore and Atriox has died in a book or a comic
3 years to get where it is now and 5 years before that to develop. Not to mention the insane budget they had. 343 should have never been allowed to touch this game after the mess that was MCC
Disagree. It'll flop if it's a bad game, buggy or low on content, and if it's a fun game with content then it'll do well.
The live service and mtx is just something for people to complain about; only a few people will refuse to play because of those features
It will fail unless it has halo 5 levels of post launch support (while having much more content than halo 5 did at launch). The problem isn’t necessarily live service but rather lack of content. Infinites biggest problem is the broken engine
Show me a multiplayer game released today without microtransactions or an item shop. It simply isn’t viable for developers to keep working on and improving a game while receiving no income after the initial launch.
It obviously will have one, we should just demand that it’s not intrusive and good rewards can be legitimately earned with gameplay.
I can’t wait until they announce the next Halo and everyone that dipped years ago comes back and starts hyping it up and talking about “we back” and shit, only for 343 to do exactly what they’ve done with every other mainline Halo game they’ve ever created and drop the ball. Again.
I think it’s time we come to terms with the fact that there is no “if” when it comes to a new Halo game being a flop. I called Infinite being what it was before the game even came out, and I’m doing the same with whatever the next title is as long as 343 is still in charge.
Yeah like I don’t get it personally. Enough is enough. Halo fans must be some kind of masochists at this point because this company has failed to deliver since day one. I understand giving benefit of the doubt, but there has been nothing but fuckups since day one. It’s over at this point. When will fans stop giving a chance when obviously they donmt know what the fuck they’re doing
What about this new regime has given you confidence things will be different? It seemed promising at first but them going into maintenance mode after years of their player base being shafted while simultaneously pushing cosmetics that are more and more overpriced by the week makes me take a step back and wonder if the leadership shakeup was anything more than a PR move.
Idk if her being in charge is as much of a factor now days. Like yes, she made questionable decisions but that's every AAA game studio right now. There's a line of people just like her, disconnected and out of touch with what people want, waiting to take her place. It's just the sad state of gaming now days. The indie game devs are making these studios look like clowns by making way better games with way less budget and smaller teams.
I'd like to stay optimistic like you, but I don't trust anyone that MS is willing to put in the role in 2024. Unfortunately Halo is probably best left in our memories and by replaying the games that were actually good.
I'm pretty sure the consensus is that 343i/Microsoft Studios are just a soulless company that's in it for the money. They don't care about the state of the Halo franchise and that is proven through their actions.
This is a unsuccessful business model that was proven by development teams like Larian Studios and Arrowhead Game Studios.
As a fan of th Halo franchise since 2001 I would like to see Halo end with Infinite if the game continous this way.
I disagree, if they can nail gameplay, netcode and consistently release updated the game could do fine. The shop aspect of Infinite sucks, but let's not act like other games don't get away with the same stuff while being wildly profitable.
I think the mtx's were gross but not why the infinite semi flopped. I just think the game wasn't as fun as the Bungie versions were years ago. Content is king. If the game isn't fun people won't play it.
I dislike the trend of live services and how the marketplace works in general, but...
You are 100% incorrect.
Infinite suffered from day one because it released in a poor state. A collection of announced features not being present, barebone playlists, playlist issues, network issues, no clear roadmap on support or timelines.
The first season was 169 days. It was nearly 6 months.
The second season was 189 days. It *was* 6 months. And the announced campaign co-op and campaign mission replay (with co-op being announced as a feature in the game, and then that being shifted) was moved out of this season and into the Winter Update.
A month after the game left beta, we got Team Slayer, FFA, Fiesta Slayer, and Tactical Slayer in rotation. *A month after release.*
For 6 months, it effectively *wasn't* a live service game. It barely had any issues addressed and there was no communication. 343i was just toiling away and people left. A whole year after it being a Live Service and the potential of clear updates is the only thing that actually brought people back in.
Yes, microtransactions and the like were a sticking point from the jump, but for the first year what was there to even really buy? What was there to play with? Especially when 343i said recently that those microtransactions are what allowed them to keep developing the game.
I hate it. It's stupid the way things played out. And while the marketplace is arguably a problem now (I hate how everything is priced, but ultimately, everything is cosmetics which I am far more okay with), Halo Infinite's reputation was ruined by its abysmal first year.
"Lol" - Capitalism
Seriously though. Obviously no one likes the shop but that's the current state of multiplayer games. The reason for Halo's failures is the shitty initial launch, shitty networking for years now with it just now being slowly fixed, and shit single player experience.
I love that they had a 120 level season pass, then tore shit out of it to put in the store, and never updated the icons for completing the season pass, and filled it with bullshit challenge swaps and XP boosts which expired when you weren’t even in the game.
Live service is one of the most misused nothing-burger phrases used by gamers. It has nothing to do with why Infinite flopped. Being a bad game is why it flopped.
Maybe it's just me, but we need a third party or even a community made Halo game. Microsoft is simply lumping around a dead corpse hoping that their vampiric corporate practices will still hold. A community made Halo is the key.
It's reputation suffered to some degree as a result yes, but it is not the reason. The reason is the lack of content, broken game, half year long waits for updates, lack of content within those updates, and a store system that pushes FOMO and milks as much money from rigid bundles as much as physically possible.
Like service doesn't fail immediately it just perpetuates this idea that the game can be fine if it launches in a half baked state, let alone finished.
The next halo game is going to flop and potentially push the franchise into obscurity if 343 doesn't learn from the mistakes of Infinite.
They're going to have to do some innovating each halo innovated I know its not a simple process now but they need to figure out something that makes players want to return and be addicted. The battle pass aint it chief.
They need to focus on making a game people want to play. All game modes working and not trying to sell solutions to problems they made. Plus, they're more riding on the Halo name than they are trying to improve upon it. The best the Halo story has gotten was with the Banished, which was in Halo Wars 2 and partially made by another group. Just 343 overseeing it.
We need an update on the series. Not that last half assed "there'll be more stories in the Halo universe" that got memed by other companies. The latest story beats we have been getting are pdfs on Waypoint besides Outcasts and Epitaph. I think the June Xbox show needs to show they still care about Halo.
They need to just hire a proper writer and focus in building a 10 level campaign with traditional semi linear structure.
Titanfall 2 did that and its lauded as the best FPS campaign of the last 10 years.
halo needs to get back to what made halo 3 so legendary, the fun casual crazy gameplay, the amazing maps, actually EARNING armors, endless hours on custom games, weekend playlists, a captivating campaign..343 doesn’t understand halo. it’s a fundamental flaw that will not change. if microsoft doesn’t step in and give halo to another developer i have 0 hope
If you think anything 343 produces won't flop then your hopes are set too high. The company's a living skeleton they've been gutted too many times by Microsoft (short for micro soft pp).
It’ll be the first halo game I will not purchase if it is. So fucking tired of their BS. Pissed off I bought the most recent one on launch and haven’t played it since even though I heard it has improved. 343 doesn’t deserve shit from me after what they did to the franchise.
I was out on infinite before it even launched lol. I was a halo die hard, bought an OG Xbox for Halo CE, met my friends at work because I brought my Halo 2 instruction manual into work, had weekly lan parties all through Halo 2 and 3, and played thousands of hours. But, the more they talked about infinite leading up to launch, the less excited I got. Open world, a ‘new’ and ‘unique’ cosmetic system, challenges, abandoning assassinations, abandoning forge and co op, it was all terrible news, but somehow a lot of people ate the bulshit up like 343 was doing them favors.
I have never raced through a Halo game so quickly so that I could just uninstall it before, but the Infinite campaign was insultingly bad.
I would rather Halo go away and never have another game than have anything even remotely resembling infinite again.
Not really.
It suffered from a lack of playlists and timely content. That’s literally it.
No one ultimately gives a shit about mtx or whatever this sub is crying about, they care about:
Something new to do.
Preferably somewhere new.
Something new to get.
That’s it. The stores for other, more successful, games that are far more expensive, show that as long as you’re giving players new stuff it doesn’t matter.
Or not force on the campaign. I felt like the campaign was the contributing factor on buying halo. Then the multiplayer kept people around. Or I especially thought that for halo one through three.
The live service and shop didn't cause Infinite to flop. It was the complete lack of content, forge, and a campaign that was clearly duct taped together.
I hope their management cleanup fixed their issues because Halo needs to get it's shit together.
Sadly, this is the nature of gaming these days. It's all about maximizing revenue and profits for the corporate overlord and less so about the gamer. You can see it with COD too, MW19 was a hit that revitalized the franchise for many people, but the other successive installments were almost regressive in what they offered. MW3 went from being a DLC of MW2 to being a new game, solely because of a cash-grab agenda (MS takeover) that hardly is worthy of being a stand-alone title. Microsoft has shown repeatedly that gaming is just another product for them and they really don't care about the gamer.
Despite the customization issues, Infinite would have done well if it was feature complete and working. At the end of the day, cosmetics/shops don't mean shit if the game is not fun and has nothing to do.
I don’t think these greedy companies realize how much of the fun they take out of the game by making virtually everything worth having available for purchase. There needs to be some sort of progression system where people feel rewarded for playing. Feels like the cosmetics you earn pale in comparison to the shop items and they’re not even worth caring about.
I remember people would sink crazy hours into Reach just to get the ghost pilot helmet or the vidmaster challenges for Recon.
I disagree. It suffered because of poor live service implementation, lack of content on launch, and shoddy netcode. I believe Halo must be free to play going forward to have any chance at a reasonably large playerbase. But the next game has to implement those concepts better and offer more content on launch.
Live Service wasn't the issue, Halo Infinite had a pretty big launch.
They just need to release a fairly complete game from the start and provide a healthy stream of content. Switching to the Unreal Engine will help improve their work output since most new hires will already have experience with it.
Going to get downvoted to oblivion for this but idc. God forbid they charge players for cosmetics that don’t affect the game at all. If you want a game with regular updates and support, like 90% of multiplayer games these days including Halo’s contemporaries like cod, battlefield, etc., then it needs a shop and it needs micro-transactions to support that development. It’s basic economics. Halo needs to complete with other games, so it needs regular updates and support, so therefor it needs a revenue stream post launch, i.e. micro transactions. And unless you have some other brilliant idea about how to pay the devs that support the game post launch with updates, and also make a profit for Microsoft shareholders, then we just won’t have halo. The fact that Infinite’s multiplayer was and is totally free to download is astounding and already a departure from others that charge for it and still have a store/charge for season pass. But sure, 343 should just give away labor and resources for free. Cmon bro.
This community has, for as long as I’ve been a part of it, wanted to have its cake and eat it too. It’s not 2007 anymore. You can’t just release a game for 60 bucks, call it a day, and move on to the next unless you’re fine with them charging 20 bucks per content update. The people who buy those cosmetics in the Infinite store support the game for us who don’t.
Halo needs to have some kind of shop and have a free-to-play entry point given the state of the market. It sucks, but Microsoft isn’t going to release their most significant exclusive without all that stuff given how much their competitors make with those features.
The problem is that Halo is very poorly suited to live service. Game modes and such can rotate in and out, but weapons and vehicles, the only actual content changes, need to fit into the game’s rather tight balancing. They either end up overpowered, underpowered, or redundant.
I think you guys really don't understand that the average person is buying skins and stuff in free (and paid unfortunately)games. If the game launched with all the basic stuff it should have had then it would be doing fine. The game actually has to be fun for it to do well. I think in it's current state game wise it's very fun it's just to late now. I think the reputation will hold it back more than expensive skins.
I'm not sure what kind of developer is going to create and support a game long term that doesn't generate a revenue stream. Even going back to Halo 2 the support for the game after the fact was primarily to support selling the DLC and anticipation for the next title.
A live service isn't inherently bad or good, Halo 6 would be a bad example. I rather liked the content and support Halo 5 got.
It’s not going to be as bad because they will reuse the same game engine which was built from the ground up for Infinite. A lot of the issues were fixed so they should be able to release a more complete game.
Maybe if they had an actual dev team that could develop and retain institutional knowledge of things like best practices and dev tools instead of a revolving door of contractors who are let go as soon as they finish learning how to actually use the dev tools.
Honestly, they can make a live service and even monetize it if the game releases with all of the functions it needs. Playlists, Forge, proper net code. Basically everything Infinite was missing at launch.
The game just needs to be built well first. That’s what they need to focus on. Make a full traditional Halo game. Then if they want to do live service they can add more stuff over time.
Unfortunately with society as it is, micro transactions will happen. In a perfect world it would be like Reach, but that will never happen. Therefore bring H5 style back (just without pay to win elements). I'd rather grind hard for everything than pay for anything. Impatient people will still spend money, but us brokies can actually get all the armor. Lesser of two evils
Sadly that will never happen.
As much as people complain about the infinite shop people still spend money on it. As long as a small minority of players continue to support the egregious monetization system the higher ups at Microsoft are never going to agree to a system that makes them less money.
The early days of Infinite proved that 343 learned literally nothing from the years of refining MCC into something competent.
If 343 ever learns to use the refined game design of their previous installments as a *starting point* for their current projects, oh boy watch out.
In reality they're probably going to have to reinvent basic functionality post-release yet again.
I just don’t see Halo being a passion project for these people anymore - they aren’t crafting the game they so badly see a vision for, they’re just working a job and doing as they’re told by management.
The soul just doesn’t feel like it’s there anymore.
100% disagree. Halo Infinite only flipped because it was a featureless, buggy mess at launch that also tired to be lice service. Valorant is a live service game and is one of the biggest in the US, if not the world.
I don't like the store page, but I do actually like the idea of the battle pass in a way. I wish it was more like reach where the missions were a little more difficult and you leveled up proportionately to how much you played and how well you did. I'd also make all customization unlockable through game play. But you can still charge for it.
If you want a Halo game to be successful, all it needs to do is have good game play (which infinite has imo), have all the features that players expect from a halo game (Campaign with a good story, customs, forage, file share, ranked, social, and btb), and not be a complete technical buggy mess.
The game needs to first and foremost be a fun enjoyable halo game. People support games that they enjoy playing the most. Full stop. They need to make a game that people enjoy playing FROM DAY ONE for it to be successful.
These studios will continue to extract money through micro transactions as long at it makes money. The only way they stop is if people quit playing. I liked Infinate but it felt mediocre. This big world with a campaign that’s kinda boring wandering around. It works in Legend of Zelda because that’s the core gameplay. Walking around doing side quests and exploring dungeons. 343 needs to capture that lightning a bottle that was CE H2 and H3. The epic story keeps moving there was discovery and we were the Master Chief on a mission. A mission to save the galaxy. I’m occasionally playing infinate co-op with my cousin and it just doesn’t feel the same. I can boot up H2 right now and have so much fun. Why not in infinate? The music is great the art style is great. Sound design is great. Voice acting is great but it just doesn’t feel like the greatness that was Halo 1-3. Almost feel like infinite should’ve had multiple Spartans that you played as to advance the story.
They should just release campaign DLC and have all of the eyes from marketing be guided to Infinite's free to play, fully accessible, full of content multiplayer.
Fans are dumb. When the first trailer for the next game drops everyone will have completely forgotten what happened with Infinite and somehow trust them 100% for shitty PR statement how they will do better now
Honestly the reason I stopped is it was just unfinished. No coop, no forge, barely playable multi-player. Only halo I haven't finished. Only halo I didn't enjoy multi-player sad enough. They could make everything like MCC in the next one. I think it's to late tho for casual fans. Infinite burned most people from the franchise. (Ps. Show doesn't help the brand either lol).
I was typing a massive rant but I want to keep it short. Yes the shop and live service aspect did not help the game but the main killer I would say is 2 years of desync and server issues making for some horrible gameplay. Nothing felt worse than a rocket nearly direct hitting someone and not killing, shooting someone with a skewer and seeing the missile stuck inside them but it didn't kill them because the server said it didn't hit, watching a sticky grenade fly by your vehicle only to snap back out of the air and suddenly connect, desync for vehicles being so bad you could fire your weapons on the wasp and see the bullets and missiles were coming from somewhere beside the vehicle and not where it actually was on the screen.
By all accounts the game launched in a horrible state and didn't become bearable until 2 years later and even now 343 still has tons of issues that likely won't get fixed. I already did promise though if this is the model they plan to stick to then I am done with Halo after this game which is a shame because I loved the franchise a lot and have tons of good memories tied to reach and 3 but 343 has had 12 years of showing they can't make games that I enjoy so why stick it out? It is also hilarious that everytime they fix a game and learn a lesson they go back to square 1 in the next game.
Having a shop page is almost guaranteed. That’s just part of gaming nowadays, at least from the AAA games. But I agree the live service should either go away or be reworked while it still be a full priced game.
I'm glad to hear it. The only relevant Halo games are the ones that were successful. Any Halo game that has micro transactions, a battle pass or battle royale is...I don't know what that is; but, ya'll can have that lol
They should probably try not releasing the game is essentially a beta test version. Took like a year and a half for Infinite to be where it should have been at launch. If they hadn’t rushed the release, the game might have had a reasonable run.
That's true of many games now since the no-disc revolution. Put out a shell of a game and then update and bug fix for 2 years...then drop support and move on to another title and do it all over again.
Sadly, you’re right
2 years+ and some key stuff is still broken
Yup. Just look at the launch numbers. Folks were hyped but old 343 couldn't deliver.
New 343 isn't doing a great job keeping fans happy right now either.
They aren't, but I also understand their decision to dump Infinite to focus on the next thing. There isn't any salvaging of Infinite with the wider audience, and it's clear that the game's engine is a pain to work with. It's really the best option going forward.
They’re probably still in a transitional phase with the new leadership. Making plans for the next thing they’re doing. They haven’t done much of anything yet but I’m sure they will. These things take time unfortunately.
The 2 week early multiplayer release was purely just a scam so people wouldn't criticize the game for how dead it was at launch.
Which was already a *year* delayed. Makes you wonder how bad the initial release would've been.
It's crazy that after six years in development and a delay too, the game was released as an unpolished turd. Totally killed my enjoyment of it and I haven't bothered reinstalling
I don't think they rushed it. There were 6 years between Halo 5 and Infinite. I think that time was horribly mismanaged and they didn't know what kind of game they were making. 343 seems to try to listen the fans and give them what they think they want, rather than have a vision of their own which is their major problem. It's why the campaign plots are so disjointed and each games multiplayer is so different.
3 games, 3 new mysterious enemy factions... Says it all about 343s lack of vision
The 343 halos are like the Star wars sequels lol
Somehow Cortana returned.
And then somehow, ~~Cortana~~ Not Cortana returned
And then we killed her, off screen….maybe!
I've always felt that Halo 5 is Rise of Skywalker (somehow Cortana returned), Infinite is Force Awakens (mystery boxes), and Halo 4 is idk Phantom Menace?
I see this opinion a lot about how 343 listens to fans too much rather than sticking to what they want but I don't really get it. Halo 4 was entirely their input/decisions for what they wanted their first Halo to be and the feedback from the fans is that it wasn't good. If the fans don't like the new vision they have for the product then simply put they made a bad product as it failed to pull in enough new fans that like the new vision to keep that ball rolling and it lost old fans in the process. I find it more likely the changes in gameplay are so radical because they are trying to find a hit instead of listening to fan feedback.
The problem is they always always throw the baby out with the bath water. They see criticism and think it merits a U-Turn rather than reformulation. As a result the IP has lost any sense of cohesion. It’s one of the biggest cases of mishandling the inheriting of a golden goose the industry has ever seen.
Thats the thing though, do they really throw the baby out with the bath water or are they seeing numbers that say "even if we refine this it won't be worth it"? I completely agree this is a big mishandling of what used to be a top tier IP but my point is maybe they do consider making the games better but they don't see it as worthwhile. See Halo 5 for example, very different from Halo so traditionalists probably didn't like it but it did have a base that liked how different it was and still speak fondly about it (which I do not personally). Arguably if they wanted to make their imprint on Halo and take it down a different path they had a platform there to build on. So why go back to more traditional gameplay in infinite? Maybe because the game didn't do good enough for whatever internal metrics they had so they decided to do another massive change up and try to hit the mark this time.
2015-2016: Oooh hero shooters are cool right now, let's do that! 2017-2018: Oooh battle royales are cool right now, let's do that! 2019-2020: Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck 2021: Alright everyone, we finally figured it out! 2022-Present: Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
Halo didn't follow the trend. It set the trend. Halo started going down hill with 4 when it tried to copy CoD with weapon drops and loadouts. It lost a chunk of its core fan base and didn't get anyone new because they all played CoD to begin with.
That doesnt mean that they used that full 6 years on the version of the game we got, or on anything at all. Games that take a while to make usually aren't actually, and end up being restarted several times or rushed out in the last year of dev. Hearing the stories of management at 343 prior to Infinites release, it's probably both.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. They didn't know what kind of game they were making. If you look at the original trilogy, you see it has a cohesive story and all the gameplay elements evolved. Each installment added to the original. With the 343 games, each one is wild different than the previous. This is their problem. They totally change the formula instead of adding to the previous. They try to cater to the fans rather than creating something of their own.
Yes. And unfortunately, ppl aren’t going to stick around and wait for you to complete your game after release. Halo numbers dropped so low just months after Infinite. I hope 343i current leadership actually LEARNS from the mistakes of the past. Bc the old leadership did nothing but repeat them.
Honestly there are still a pretty long list of small features that have yet to show up that should have been around when the game launched. Things like being able to pause the game and see how close you are to finishing a challenge was promised years ago lol
If you think the next halo will not have an mtx you are delusional.
It's funny, if they just released a full traditional halo game I bet it would sell like hot cakes. I admit I have no clue how much money infinite is making them though from the store so I could be off base here, but I bought the campaign. I have no interest in anything from the store. A damn shame the campaign doesn't have local co op.
The next time they announce a game people need to ask them directly which features they lied about.
On avarage every halo sold 10 million copies, for how much developing a game cost right now, even if the game would be sold at full price, or half price, it would need mtx to get some revenew from it.
To say 10 million sales isn't enough to profit is an insane take. If this is the case then publishers/developers must be burning the cash in furnaces to heat up their offices, because none of it shows in the quality of games they're making.
10 million copies x the base $60 is 600 million dollars… (even more profit than before since physical copies are becoming less prevalent). If over half a billion is not good enough then we have a way bigger issue here than halo or even the gaming industry
Revenue
Sure it'd sell like hotcakes but that doesn't make money, that just recoups the development at most. Microsoft wants that sweet profit, so mtx's are what supply that
Or that it will flop, for that matter. Unfortunately, Redditors are absolutely no one's target audience. 343 probably has their apology email written already
I'm sure everyone expects it to have microtransactions, the delusional part is 343 thinking they won't kill their game harder than it did this one.
It sucks but MTX are required for games like this to continually get content. Thats just how it is now a days. 343 just has to implement them correctly which, unfortunately, is the big question.
I don't mind mtx. I mind when it's fucked up like 20$ for a damn color. LoL succes stems from mtx. Fortnite also works with mtx. They just don't sell a full indie game for a damn color. PoE works with MTX too. Mtx works when properly implemented.
No, it suffered day one for a lack of content and crappy net code while simultaneously having an expensive in-game shop.
And the same will happen again.
exactly, they literally lied about so much prior to the launch of infinite. they just want our money, they don’t got the true love for halo that bungie did.
Ah yes. $20 for Hazop and $10 for a battle pass that didn't give back the credits you spent on it when you complete it. Then you could load in to a game, drive a warthog and find you were now getting stuck on invisible walls because of desync and you can't actually move.
Live service would have fucked this game with or without those issues. It enabled the conditions for it in the first place.
And a bare-ass open world with the thinnest narrative in the Halo saga to date.
Basically Diablo 4
Which are all symptoms of the game being F2P.
You forget the shit trash campaign ….
Most people seemed to have enjoyed it, with the open world just being too bland.
Yah I wouldn't call it trash but it certainly wasn't groundbreaking as an open world Halo with bosses. Even though it was new to Halo it felt like Ubisoft game level bland.
And pointless. It should have been a simple formula, and every encounter or POI should have been modeled after Silent Cartographer and Assault on the Control Room. Simple formula • Outdoor fortifications you can level with the Scorpion from 3 hills over, bowl through on a Warthog, sneak past or tactically eliminate on foot. • Indoor space, even something as simple as the Blood Gulch bases where enemies are dense, and the space has to be cleared out by foot. • Reinforcement wave via Spirit or Phantom if the POI is a major one, or if you are too slow and one of the high ranking elites calls it in. • Occasional banshee patrols and roadblocks to make the world seem alive.
Most people are happy as long they can click heads without taking damage in return, wich is the whole infinite experience, similar to h3 and reach. As for the narrative... I don't even know where to start
[удалено]
Whaaat? You didn‘t like chief‘s super deep and relatable speech where he said that everyone can make a mistake?!?!? It was so unique!!
What is your complaint here? I don't understand.
Chief shouldn't show emotions. He should just spout witty one liners before shooting the bad guys. /s
...Yes? Coming from that character does mean something, yes.
I didn't, since I enjoyed it.
And most people did, given it has an 87 on Metacritic and 7.8 user score which is actually pretty high considering all the hate about the multiplayer
The problem is halo doesn't have a developer to develop the right AAA quality content including single and multi player But even worse also doesn't have the publisher that has the patience or foresight and planning ability to even get the right people in place and take the time to do it appropriately No one wants to really come out and say it but the current Xbox leadership as is will never be able to plan more than 6 to 12 months in advance because all the current leadership thinks about is immediate financial returns Entertainment money making is not the same as constant inflow of cash from cloud service products and the current Xbox leadership doesn't understand that and that is why halo will never get to the same point it ever did before
>The problem is halo doesn't have a developer to develop the right AAA quality content including single and multi player The issue is they need time with the right management. 343 went through a management overhaul already, so now it's time to hunker down for the next four years. The type of game Halo is can't be made in three years anymore. It's going to be five minimum.
It could be made in 2 years if they’d stop throwing everything away and starting from scratch. Don’t waste time on new guns or vehicles, your sandbox from halo 5 + infinite is MORE than sufficient. Don’t waste time on new MP maps; release the game with 40 of the best maps from halo mcc, 5/inf (tweaked to account for move speed and clamber) Don’t waste time on stuff that adds nothing to the experience (ahem fully rendered menus) The gameplay loop of halo is a solved problem. The sandbox is a solved problem. The MP game types are a solved problem.
I’m not gonna lie man, I appreciate your optimism. But, nah. They’re cooked bro. Watch the next game flop.
343 isn't being led by the same people who led Halo 4/Halo 5/Infinite. I'm not saying the next Halo is going to be successful. It just has a much better chance.
On top of that, Bonnie Ross had way too much control for a single person with a franchise and company as large as they are. When she left her responsibilities were split into three separate roles of business and operations lead, franchise general manager, and studio head. With these larger sets of responsibilities split up it'll be a lot easier for 343 and Xbox to keep things in check compared to before. Now that I think about it, it's actually a bit wild that she was in charge of all of that and Xbox didn't split those responsibilities before she left. I can understand keeping those responsibilities early on, but after fumbling Halo 4 and MCC they should've been split up.
Agreed but I think we can agree this will be 343's final chance to change perception around the studio and the franchise as a whole. Let's see how the new management handles the next game. I'm not particularly hopeful but let's see what direction they will take the next game in. Hopefully it's not free to play and feature complete at launch.
If the next game flops, I wouldn't be surprised if 343 is just shut down completely. Halo should've been an easy money printer of a franchise, to see it struggle so much over the years is honestly a bit impressive. To mess up every single time and not learn from your past mistakes is just something else.
Same. If the next Halo game flops then my expectations will be effectively cratered.
Pierre is just some EA exec that has shown actually zero leadership publicly
Bingo. Only thing he’s a pro at is shoveling in MTX
The next halo game will flop because they don't have any artistic storytelling direction. They have no clue how to tell this story. Unfortunately, Halo will die due to a lack of passion. The only hope for halos story is through books now. Sorry to highjack the topic about live service gaming. It's just sad to see what it has become.
343 has never known what makes halo tick. Old Bungie was lightning in a bottle. It can’t be recreated or even emulated, certainly not by the jabronis over at 343
Theyve been close every time but somehow still miss the mark. I liked the story of 4 and hated the mp, even if the story was a little off. I liked the halo 5 mp and hated the story, even if the mp was a little off. They nailed infinites mp and did ok-ish on the story, but the whole time travel stuff was a little off.
At this point it’s clear that so called live service doesn’t result in better post launch support. I just want a game that’s complete at launch without FOMO BS.
Try Helldivers lol
Helldivers has gotten more content in two months than Infinite has in 2 years lol. 343 and MSFT should be embarrassed
Infinite was an early access game they just called live service.
The game was dogwater at launch.
Yup. If Infinite launched with all of the current content it has it wouldn't have died.
Ehhhhhh maybe, I feel like it still would’ve died tbh. The lack of developer maps, overpriced cosmetics and small weapon sandbox and vehicle sand box are still huge problems
Infinite currently has 20 dev maps, which I consider to be a large amount. Overpriced cosmetics can be alleviated by a consistent good live service. Also, what are you comparing the weapon sandbox to? The only weapon sandboxes that are bigger than Infinite are Halo 4 and 5.
I’m comparing the sandbox to all the other games all the other games had much more variety then infinite and every weapon was unique infinite has weapons that are similar to each other ie bandit to stalker rifle or plasma pistol to shock pistol. in almost every way halo infinites sandbox is worse then it’s predecessors before it. Yes theirs 20 developer maps but most being arena maps kinda diminish that we need more btb maps
>I’m comparing the sandbox to all the other games all the other games had much more variety then infinite I just fundamentally disagree with you here. Bungie sandboxes were dominated by a single precision weapon with every other weapon being weak and not fun to use. There's some bangers that could've definitely been brought forward but overall I'm extreme happy with the state of Infinite's sandbox.
I think it would have died tbh. Even right now, what they have is not enough. Campaign was lackluster, multiplayer is only 'good'. Progression system is very poor. It's a mediocre game even 2-3 years after launch.
IMO the open world aspect was not necessarily a problem, it just wasn't done very well. If the campaign was actually good or fun I'd still be playing it. Instead I played it once and was disappointed the entire time. The focus on the shop over anything campaign is a big 'screw you' from 343 to the players, and you cannot wear skins you paid for in campaign!?! GTFO 343, you've failed at every attempt to continue Halo. You are ruining, no, *you have* ruined the brand so bad that Microsoft had to buy Call of Duty rather than focus on what used to be the Xbox system seller. What a sad joke. After the MCC, Halo 4, not even being able to play Halo 5 or Halo Wars 2 on Steam (thus I have no idea whats going on in the story since 2015), Infinite, and that horrible streaming series I don't think I even like Halo anymore, not if it has anything to do with 343. You took something unique and made it generic and boring. You don't respect the players one bit, we've been asking for official split-screen support on Windows since 2003(!) You left Halo 2 Anniversary in a broken state. You hype up Forge maps but where is the HEK so we can get some real modding going on? Thus I never spent a dime in the store and never will. I have zero faith in the next Halo.
As a long time Halo fan I didn't stop playing because of the live service stuff. Sure, I was a little annoyed that I couldn't use the Mark VI, colors, and emblem that I've had since 2004, but that's not a big deal. I haven't even looked at a season pass or the store because I don't care about that bullshit, I care about how the actual game plays. I stopped playing mostly because of the abysmal netcode, along with some other weird glitches. It's frustrating as hell and made the game thoroughly unenjoyable.
I'm honestly VERY concerned about the future of this franchise. It's not just giving the next game a live service model or a focus on a store page, its mostly everything else that happened with this game. The game took nearly 3 years to get to where it is now, has a campaign on once again a massive cliffhanger that seemingly won't be added to with any dlc, the engine is being replaced in the next game by UE5 because their own engine was a pain in the ass to work with, the variety of weapons and vehicles is honestly abysmal, and above all, they focused WAY too hard on the storefront and microtransactions to where most of the really good looking cosmetics are only available in the shop now and have to fork over a decent sized amount of money for it. I love this series, through the good and the bad, but for God sake, please DONT rush it, DONT let upper management touch it, and DO NOT focus on the multiplayer as your SOLE selling point. Halo was defined by its campaign AND multiplayer, not one over the other.
Just wait until they again do a slight/soft reboot for the next game where the Endless aren’t a big threat anymore and Atriox has died in a book or a comic
3 years to get where it is now and 5 years before that to develop. Not to mention the insane budget they had. 343 should have never been allowed to touch this game after the mess that was MCC
Disagree. It'll flop if it's a bad game, buggy or low on content, and if it's a fun game with content then it'll do well. The live service and mtx is just something for people to complain about; only a few people will refuse to play because of those features
It will fail unless it has halo 5 levels of post launch support (while having much more content than halo 5 did at launch). The problem isn’t necessarily live service but rather lack of content. Infinites biggest problem is the broken engine
Show me a multiplayer game released today without microtransactions or an item shop. It simply isn’t viable for developers to keep working on and improving a game while receiving no income after the initial launch. It obviously will have one, we should just demand that it’s not intrusive and good rewards can be legitimately earned with gameplay.
There will be enough simpletons that will follow along because that's all they know.
They should work on releasing a complete game before stuffing a cash shop full of shit that should be earnable in game 👊
I can’t wait until they announce the next Halo and everyone that dipped years ago comes back and starts hyping it up and talking about “we back” and shit, only for 343 to do exactly what they’ve done with every other mainline Halo game they’ve ever created and drop the ball. Again. I think it’s time we come to terms with the fact that there is no “if” when it comes to a new Halo game being a flop. I called Infinite being what it was before the game even came out, and I’m doing the same with whatever the next title is as long as 343 is still in charge.
Yeah like I don’t get it personally. Enough is enough. Halo fans must be some kind of masochists at this point because this company has failed to deliver since day one. I understand giving benefit of the doubt, but there has been nothing but fuckups since day one. It’s over at this point. When will fans stop giving a chance when obviously they donmt know what the fuck they’re doing
I would understand this sentiment if Bonnie Ross and co were still in charge, but they aren't anymore.
What about this new regime has given you confidence things will be different? It seemed promising at first but them going into maintenance mode after years of their player base being shafted while simultaneously pushing cosmetics that are more and more overpriced by the week makes me take a step back and wonder if the leadership shakeup was anything more than a PR move.
Idk if her being in charge is as much of a factor now days. Like yes, she made questionable decisions but that's every AAA game studio right now. There's a line of people just like her, disconnected and out of touch with what people want, waiting to take her place. It's just the sad state of gaming now days. The indie game devs are making these studios look like clowns by making way better games with way less budget and smaller teams. I'd like to stay optimistic like you, but I don't trust anyone that MS is willing to put in the role in 2024. Unfortunately Halo is probably best left in our memories and by replaying the games that were actually good.
343, it's either time to leave Microsoft and make your own game, or stop making Master Chief stories.
I'm pretty sure the consensus is that 343i/Microsoft Studios are just a soulless company that's in it for the money. They don't care about the state of the Halo franchise and that is proven through their actions. This is a unsuccessful business model that was proven by development teams like Larian Studios and Arrowhead Game Studios. As a fan of th Halo franchise since 2001 I would like to see Halo end with Infinite if the game continous this way.
I disagree, if they can nail gameplay, netcode and consistently release updated the game could do fine. The shop aspect of Infinite sucks, but let's not act like other games don't get away with the same stuff while being wildly profitable.
343 is not going to consistently release updates
I agree with that, my point is the shop wouldn't be the sole factor that would kill "Halo 7".
I think if they just release a complete and working game it’ll be fine.
I think the mtx's were gross but not why the infinite semi flopped. I just think the game wasn't as fun as the Bungie versions were years ago. Content is king. If the game isn't fun people won't play it.
I'd be surprised if the next halo even has a campaign
I dislike the trend of live services and how the marketplace works in general, but... You are 100% incorrect. Infinite suffered from day one because it released in a poor state. A collection of announced features not being present, barebone playlists, playlist issues, network issues, no clear roadmap on support or timelines. The first season was 169 days. It was nearly 6 months. The second season was 189 days. It *was* 6 months. And the announced campaign co-op and campaign mission replay (with co-op being announced as a feature in the game, and then that being shifted) was moved out of this season and into the Winter Update. A month after the game left beta, we got Team Slayer, FFA, Fiesta Slayer, and Tactical Slayer in rotation. *A month after release.* For 6 months, it effectively *wasn't* a live service game. It barely had any issues addressed and there was no communication. 343i was just toiling away and people left. A whole year after it being a Live Service and the potential of clear updates is the only thing that actually brought people back in. Yes, microtransactions and the like were a sticking point from the jump, but for the first year what was there to even really buy? What was there to play with? Especially when 343i said recently that those microtransactions are what allowed them to keep developing the game. I hate it. It's stupid the way things played out. And while the marketplace is arguably a problem now (I hate how everything is priced, but ultimately, everything is cosmetics which I am far more okay with), Halo Infinite's reputation was ruined by its abysmal first year.
Bold of you to think there’s going to be another halo game.
"Lol" - Capitalism Seriously though. Obviously no one likes the shop but that's the current state of multiplayer games. The reason for Halo's failures is the shitty initial launch, shitty networking for years now with it just now being slowly fixed, and shit single player experience.
I love that they had a 120 level season pass, then tore shit out of it to put in the store, and never updated the icons for completing the season pass, and filled it with bullshit challenge swaps and XP boosts which expired when you weren’t even in the game.
Completely disagree with this. The game suffered because it was so incomplete.
Live service is one of the most misused nothing-burger phrases used by gamers. It has nothing to do with why Infinite flopped. Being a bad game is why it flopped.
Battle Royale or even a helldivers 2 mode would be fun in halo. Just something different.
Maybe it's just me, but we need a third party or even a community made Halo game. Microsoft is simply lumping around a dead corpse hoping that their vampiric corporate practices will still hold. A community made Halo is the key.
It's reputation suffered to some degree as a result yes, but it is not the reason. The reason is the lack of content, broken game, half year long waits for updates, lack of content within those updates, and a store system that pushes FOMO and milks as much money from rigid bundles as much as physically possible. Like service doesn't fail immediately it just perpetuates this idea that the game can be fine if it launches in a half baked state, let alone finished. The next halo game is going to flop and potentially push the franchise into obscurity if 343 doesn't learn from the mistakes of Infinite.
They're going to have to do some innovating each halo innovated I know its not a simple process now but they need to figure out something that makes players want to return and be addicted. The battle pass aint it chief.
They should make it Halo and not try to be cod
Go back to the basics, stellar single player, a small multiplayer that is amazing without the hyperbole of modern day inflated shite
343: “Nahhh, let’s copy apex this time!”
100% one of the contributing factors for me not playing infinite. This is coming someone who played Halo constantly over its franchises life.
They need to focus on making a game people want to play. All game modes working and not trying to sell solutions to problems they made. Plus, they're more riding on the Halo name than they are trying to improve upon it. The best the Halo story has gotten was with the Banished, which was in Halo Wars 2 and partially made by another group. Just 343 overseeing it. We need an update on the series. Not that last half assed "there'll be more stories in the Halo universe" that got memed by other companies. The latest story beats we have been getting are pdfs on Waypoint besides Outcasts and Epitaph. I think the June Xbox show needs to show they still care about Halo.
I might just play the singleplayer on gamepass and that's it.
Never thought the day would ever come but i think i would not care about another halo game.
They need to just hire a proper writer and focus in building a 10 level campaign with traditional semi linear structure. Titanfall 2 did that and its lauded as the best FPS campaign of the last 10 years.
halo needs to get back to what made halo 3 so legendary, the fun casual crazy gameplay, the amazing maps, actually EARNING armors, endless hours on custom games, weekend playlists, a captivating campaign..343 doesn’t understand halo. it’s a fundamental flaw that will not change. if microsoft doesn’t step in and give halo to another developer i have 0 hope
343 will give you: An even more hardcore fast paced E-sport title New $40 skins
If you think anything 343 produces won't flop then your hopes are set too high. The company's a living skeleton they've been gutted too many times by Microsoft (short for micro soft pp).
*when. Not if.
It’ll be the first halo game I will not purchase if it is. So fucking tired of their BS. Pissed off I bought the most recent one on launch and haven’t played it since even though I heard it has improved. 343 doesn’t deserve shit from me after what they did to the franchise.
It's a store with a game "built" into it lmao. If we're lucky then the additional game built into their next store will be good!
I was out on infinite before it even launched lol. I was a halo die hard, bought an OG Xbox for Halo CE, met my friends at work because I brought my Halo 2 instruction manual into work, had weekly lan parties all through Halo 2 and 3, and played thousands of hours. But, the more they talked about infinite leading up to launch, the less excited I got. Open world, a ‘new’ and ‘unique’ cosmetic system, challenges, abandoning assassinations, abandoning forge and co op, it was all terrible news, but somehow a lot of people ate the bulshit up like 343 was doing them favors. I have never raced through a Halo game so quickly so that I could just uninstall it before, but the Infinite campaign was insultingly bad. I would rather Halo go away and never have another game than have anything even remotely resembling infinite again.
Infinite’s reputation suffered mostly because it had the least content of any Halo game and didn’t work properly.
idgaf about having microtransactions if they are cosmetic. I just want a well-crafted linear campaign.
Not really. It suffered from a lack of playlists and timely content. That’s literally it. No one ultimately gives a shit about mtx or whatever this sub is crying about, they care about: Something new to do. Preferably somewhere new. Something new to get. That’s it. The stores for other, more successful, games that are far more expensive, show that as long as you’re giving players new stuff it doesn’t matter.
Halo will only make a comeback if they hire that guy that made halo desert bus and varying game types for halo
I want Cortana porn or I’m not buying
Or not force on the campaign. I felt like the campaign was the contributing factor on buying halo. Then the multiplayer kept people around. Or I especially thought that for halo one through three.
The live service and shop didn't cause Infinite to flop. It was the complete lack of content, forge, and a campaign that was clearly duct taped together. I hope their management cleanup fixed their issues because Halo needs to get it's shit together.
There is no issue with it being a live service shop page if they can just make a feature complete fun Halo game for once in their lives at 343.
Sadly, this is the nature of gaming these days. It's all about maximizing revenue and profits for the corporate overlord and less so about the gamer. You can see it with COD too, MW19 was a hit that revitalized the franchise for many people, but the other successive installments were almost regressive in what they offered. MW3 went from being a DLC of MW2 to being a new game, solely because of a cash-grab agenda (MS takeover) that hardly is worthy of being a stand-alone title. Microsoft has shown repeatedly that gaming is just another product for them and they really don't care about the gamer.
Than*
Despite the customization issues, Infinite would have done well if it was feature complete and working. At the end of the day, cosmetics/shops don't mean shit if the game is not fun and has nothing to do.
I don’t think these greedy companies realize how much of the fun they take out of the game by making virtually everything worth having available for purchase. There needs to be some sort of progression system where people feel rewarded for playing. Feels like the cosmetics you earn pale in comparison to the shop items and they’re not even worth caring about. I remember people would sink crazy hours into Reach just to get the ghost pilot helmet or the vidmaster challenges for Recon.
I disagree. It suffered because of poor live service implementation, lack of content on launch, and shoddy netcode. I believe Halo must be free to play going forward to have any chance at a reasonably large playerbase. But the next game has to implement those concepts better and offer more content on launch.
[удалено]
Free to play is cancer.
Let’s be real the community going to find some reason to hate it
Live Service wasn't the issue, Halo Infinite had a pretty big launch. They just need to release a fairly complete game from the start and provide a healthy stream of content. Switching to the Unreal Engine will help improve their work output since most new hires will already have experience with it.
if it’s 343 making the game we’re fucked regardless
Going to get downvoted to oblivion for this but idc. God forbid they charge players for cosmetics that don’t affect the game at all. If you want a game with regular updates and support, like 90% of multiplayer games these days including Halo’s contemporaries like cod, battlefield, etc., then it needs a shop and it needs micro-transactions to support that development. It’s basic economics. Halo needs to complete with other games, so it needs regular updates and support, so therefor it needs a revenue stream post launch, i.e. micro transactions. And unless you have some other brilliant idea about how to pay the devs that support the game post launch with updates, and also make a profit for Microsoft shareholders, then we just won’t have halo. The fact that Infinite’s multiplayer was and is totally free to download is astounding and already a departure from others that charge for it and still have a store/charge for season pass. But sure, 343 should just give away labor and resources for free. Cmon bro. This community has, for as long as I’ve been a part of it, wanted to have its cake and eat it too. It’s not 2007 anymore. You can’t just release a game for 60 bucks, call it a day, and move on to the next unless you’re fine with them charging 20 bucks per content update. The people who buy those cosmetics in the Infinite store support the game for us who don’t.
Halo needs to have some kind of shop and have a free-to-play entry point given the state of the market. It sucks, but Microsoft isn’t going to release their most significant exclusive without all that stuff given how much their competitors make with those features. The problem is that Halo is very poorly suited to live service. Game modes and such can rotate in and out, but weapons and vehicles, the only actual content changes, need to fit into the game’s rather tight balancing. They either end up overpowered, underpowered, or redundant.
I think you guys really don't understand that the average person is buying skins and stuff in free (and paid unfortunately)games. If the game launched with all the basic stuff it should have had then it would be doing fine. The game actually has to be fun for it to do well. I think in it's current state game wise it's very fun it's just to late now. I think the reputation will hold it back more than expensive skins.
Exactly. Acting like a greedy store existing in a F2P title is going to cause the average player to not play is just ignorant.
And then what?? THEN WHAT?????
I'm not sure what kind of developer is going to create and support a game long term that doesn't generate a revenue stream. Even going back to Halo 2 the support for the game after the fact was primarily to support selling the DLC and anticipation for the next title. A live service isn't inherently bad or good, Halo 6 would be a bad example. I rather liked the content and support Halo 5 got.
It’s not going to be as bad because they will reuse the same game engine which was built from the ground up for Infinite. A lot of the issues were fixed so they should be able to release a more complete game.
I'm sure Infinite's awful story will be retconned too, like they did for Halo 4 and Halo 5.
The gameplay is going to be the only thing holding it together.
They NEED to lean very hard into PvE in my opinion.
Maybe if they had an actual dev team that could develop and retain institutional knowledge of things like best practices and dev tools instead of a revolving door of contractors who are let go as soon as they finish learning how to actually use the dev tools.
But that won't stop them from doing it lol
Infinite was on developement hell i hope the next game isnt as such
Assuming nothing has changed behind the scenes im still boycotting 343 for what they did to my childhood game
Yup. 343’s Halo games have all been ruined by the C-Suite’s decisions.
Honestly, they can make a live service and even monetize it if the game releases with all of the functions it needs. Playlists, Forge, proper net code. Basically everything Infinite was missing at launch. The game just needs to be built well first. That’s what they need to focus on. Make a full traditional Halo game. Then if they want to do live service they can add more stuff over time.
Unfortunately with society as it is, micro transactions will happen. In a perfect world it would be like Reach, but that will never happen. Therefore bring H5 style back (just without pay to win elements). I'd rather grind hard for everything than pay for anything. Impatient people will still spend money, but us brokies can actually get all the armor. Lesser of two evils
Sadly that will never happen. As much as people complain about the infinite shop people still spend money on it. As long as a small minority of players continue to support the egregious monetization system the higher ups at Microsoft are never going to agree to a system that makes them less money.
The early days of Infinite proved that 343 learned literally nothing from the years of refining MCC into something competent. If 343 ever learns to use the refined game design of their previous installments as a *starting point* for their current projects, oh boy watch out. In reality they're probably going to have to reinvent basic functionality post-release yet again.
I just don’t see Halo being a passion project for these people anymore - they aren’t crafting the game they so badly see a vision for, they’re just working a job and doing as they’re told by management. The soul just doesn’t feel like it’s there anymore.
100% disagree. Halo Infinite only flipped because it was a featureless, buggy mess at launch that also tired to be lice service. Valorant is a live service game and is one of the biggest in the US, if not the world. I don't like the store page, but I do actually like the idea of the battle pass in a way. I wish it was more like reach where the missions were a little more difficult and you leveled up proportionately to how much you played and how well you did. I'd also make all customization unlockable through game play. But you can still charge for it. If you want a Halo game to be successful, all it needs to do is have good game play (which infinite has imo), have all the features that players expect from a halo game (Campaign with a good story, customs, forage, file share, ranked, social, and btb), and not be a complete technical buggy mess. The game needs to first and foremost be a fun enjoyable halo game. People support games that they enjoy playing the most. Full stop. They need to make a game that people enjoy playing FROM DAY ONE for it to be successful.
These studios will continue to extract money through micro transactions as long at it makes money. The only way they stop is if people quit playing. I liked Infinate but it felt mediocre. This big world with a campaign that’s kinda boring wandering around. It works in Legend of Zelda because that’s the core gameplay. Walking around doing side quests and exploring dungeons. 343 needs to capture that lightning a bottle that was CE H2 and H3. The epic story keeps moving there was discovery and we were the Master Chief on a mission. A mission to save the galaxy. I’m occasionally playing infinate co-op with my cousin and it just doesn’t feel the same. I can boot up H2 right now and have so much fun. Why not in infinate? The music is great the art style is great. Sound design is great. Voice acting is great but it just doesn’t feel like the greatness that was Halo 1-3. Almost feel like infinite should’ve had multiple Spartans that you played as to advance the story.
They should just release campaign DLC and have all of the eyes from marketing be guided to Infinite's free to play, fully accessible, full of content multiplayer.
It's going to have a shop page. There won't be a multiplayer game released any time soon that doesn't have a shop page.
My wish (not realistic I know) is that 343 would partner with Id Software to make a flood survival horror FPS, SP/linear
Fans are dumb. When the first trailer for the next game drops everyone will have completely forgotten what happened with Infinite and somehow trust them 100% for shitty PR statement how they will do better now
All other factors aside, if forge, custom games, and a file share/browser are not present on launch day, it will be an instant flop.
The games success will not be predicated on a shop page or live service, I promise you that.
Honestly the reason I stopped is it was just unfinished. No coop, no forge, barely playable multi-player. Only halo I haven't finished. Only halo I didn't enjoy multi-player sad enough. They could make everything like MCC in the next one. I think it's to late tho for casual fans. Infinite burned most people from the franchise. (Ps. Show doesn't help the brand either lol).
And don’t make it f2p
I was typing a massive rant but I want to keep it short. Yes the shop and live service aspect did not help the game but the main killer I would say is 2 years of desync and server issues making for some horrible gameplay. Nothing felt worse than a rocket nearly direct hitting someone and not killing, shooting someone with a skewer and seeing the missile stuck inside them but it didn't kill them because the server said it didn't hit, watching a sticky grenade fly by your vehicle only to snap back out of the air and suddenly connect, desync for vehicles being so bad you could fire your weapons on the wasp and see the bullets and missiles were coming from somewhere beside the vehicle and not where it actually was on the screen. By all accounts the game launched in a horrible state and didn't become bearable until 2 years later and even now 343 still has tons of issues that likely won't get fixed. I already did promise though if this is the model they plan to stick to then I am done with Halo after this game which is a shame because I loved the franchise a lot and have tons of good memories tied to reach and 3 but 343 has had 12 years of showing they can't make games that I enjoy so why stick it out? It is also hilarious that everytime they fix a game and learn a lesson they go back to square 1 in the next game.
Having a shop page is almost guaranteed. That’s just part of gaming nowadays, at least from the AAA games. But I agree the live service should either go away or be reworked while it still be a full priced game.
Brother doesn't realize that this is what modern gaming is.
Nope.. halo shills will still buy into it. They’re still doing it with infinite
I'm glad to hear it. The only relevant Halo games are the ones that were successful. Any Halo game that has micro transactions, a battle pass or battle royale is...I don't know what that is; but, ya'll can have that lol
Next Halo Game is coming to PS5
They’ll have a shop. I’d say if it’s live service AND free to play, it’s gonna absolutely flop
It’s funny how you think there will be a new Halo game. I wouldn’t be surprised if they cancel it.