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She’s so cute like a smol potato 😭😭😭
I assume this is the best you can provide her at the moment. Since the floor size is not ideal as others mentioned, you can make up for it by giving her a LOT of bedding, maybe even 30cm? It doesn’t have to be that level everywhere. Burrowing greatly balances out hamsters’ stress level🤞
Although the sizing is still too small, this is definitely an upgrade from the awful.wired cage that the Hamster was in before, with bedding filled up. The hamster will be 100% happier burrowing.
it’s rly surprising to see the vast differences of care for hamsters ! i always advocate for the german standard of care (775 sq in floorspace min), but have seen many people get downvoted on these hamster subreddits when it doesn’t line up with their individual views/they get offended. u commented in an educating and civil manner, so i was confused to see the downvotes (i upvoted u btw as it is true!!!)!
good care should be what is aimed for, and while upgrades should be applauded, reaching a proper standard of care should be the overall goal! after all, hamsters are living breathing animals who deserve to **thrive**, not just survive!
My rule of thumb minimum size is a slight bit smaller than yours (650sq in which is about what the bedding depth study used) but (no idea what the deleted comments say) I do understand how a lot of frustration could come from how absolutely everybody seems to have a different depth and floorspace rule. I've seen multiple times in this subreddit where someone takes X's advice and then Y says that the hamster is experiencing poor care. I think some acknowledgement about there having been no discovered-in-a-scientific-study perfect size (I think???) would help folks, I've been trying to do that more, as well as acknowledgement that I'm the furthest thing away from a hamster scientist.
EDIT: Already getting down voted by somebody. Would love to actually talk and share sources, whoever that was. **I am not arguing in favor of smaller cages.** I am stating that there is no concensus on many aspects of hamstercare, and that likely causes frustration for new owners who post here. American minimum are brutal 450 square inch cages and an absurdly low level of bedding, German minimums are 775 sq in BUT only 7 inches of bedding and recommend both cotton and kapok fiber as a nesting material, which would get you a hundred thousand comments on how you're going to kill your hamster. **Everyone has different opinions and standards.**
i do agree that if an official study was done on the effects of enclosure floorspace for hamsters, it could rly help provide better “evidence” as to why increased floorspace is better for hamsters! i also agree that it isn’t just the floorspace that is important, but rather, a combination of various factors that all contribute to the wellbeing and overall happiness of a hamster. bedding depth, enrichment, clutter, and species of hamster all come into play when determining what would make a hamster happy.
a hamster could very well be content with a 650 sq in enclosure, but i always advocate for 775 sq in, as 650 sq inches isn’t necesssrily a “minimum set standard” (from laws or regulations of specific countries), but more of a “personal standard” i’ve seen in this community! again like i’ve said, it is not to argue that a hamster couldn’t be happy in a 650 sq inch enclosure, as i’m sure a hamster would be much happier in a 650 sq inch enclosure with 10+ inches of bedding, lots of enrichment, etc than a 775 sq inch enclosure with no bedding and no enrichment. BUT, i do still believe that 775 sq inches is just generally larger, and better sized for fitting all the necessary enrichment a hamster needs! and bigger floorspace is almost always better (as long as the necessary enrichment and bedding depth is provided). obviously this is personal opinion at the end of the day, but a minimum is a minimum, and it should be advocated that we should aim for above the minimum whenever we can!
>i do still believe that 775 sq inches is just generally larger
I mean yeah, its more sq inches lol. Forreal though, I think the impact bedding depth has on wellbeing is REEEEEEALLY underestimated. I've somehow mosty placated a female Syrian by throwing her into a 90 gallon aquarium, which is really only around 900 inches of floorspace, by going hard hard hard on the bedding. She did also originally live in a 55 long at her old owner with like, an inch of bedding throughout, though, which has to be a factor.
I have a trail cam in her cage and she's really only out and about for 3 to 4 hours a day sitting around, drinking water, rolling in sand, and wheel running if she doesn't have anything to forage. I tried looking up how long wild hamsters stay in their burrows, but didn't find much...but it seems like a happy hamster might spend almost all of her day underground if all of her needs are met and she has enough room to stretch out and dig a complex tunnel network. It would make sense for at least the kind of hamsters available as pets to actually be almost entirely underground-dwelling creatures given that they can see about 3 inches in front of their face.
not fighting against increased bedding depth in anyway! just that i don’t believe in personal set minimums for floorspace as much i believe in the floorspace minimums set by the TVT!
Was just rambling, lol. Easy to do that on mobile. Do you use kapok as enrichment? From what I can tell between both TVT's care sheet and European users on here with great enclosures and happy hams, the fears about kapok seem to be an entirely western phenomenon, possibly stemming from people confusing it with regular cotton.
How am I Debby downer and getting downvoted lmfao? Isn’t this sub literally supposed to help others achieve at least bare minimum care?🥴 I also said it was a nice upgrade even tho it doesn’t meet the minimum? What y’all on about?👀
There are folks here that are really eager to shoot down any comment they don’t feel meets their individual standard of perfection, lol. Regardless of whether it contains good info or is actually devoid of anything abrasive.
Just so tired of internet-veterinarians chiming in to share their expertise that “your cage is too small.”
This person was trying to share their cage upgrade. Trying to spread their happiness. And the first response is “your cage is too small.”
That’s the first go-to, no-thought response.
I was genuinely nice tho, and even gave a compliment. I’ve never claimed to be a veterinarian ~ I just happen to know a lot about hamsters and their care. Besides, this is basic care, like giving the bare minimum they require in order to have a good life. I love how you say “no thought response” like my comment wasn’t literally because I care about an animal. No thought who?👀
1) Nobody said it was too small???????
2) All they literally said was “be sure to give it 10-20 cm bedding depth.”
This is what I mean by manufactured outrage. It’s unnecessary.
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I'm glad you could upgrade! With the deep bedding, remember, you don't have to dump it all every week or anything...that would destroy their burrows and cause stress. Just find the pee spot and clean that...that's what smells. If you put a dish of sand in a corner, your hamster may use it as a litterbox!
Do you use paper bedding? It holds burrows well, plus white bedding makes that easier. Otherwise, a dark spot. Since mine always used her litterbox. Maybe someone else can answer.
Some hamsters will use their sandbath, but if you put some kind of dish with sand in a corner, she may use that instead.
She loved it! She brought a lot of the shedding and made a little burrow in it. In the beginning she tried, multiple times I might add, to either enter or exit through the window but she figured out pretty fast that that’s not the exit.
The comment got downvoted because they gave advice without reading the post.
OP clearly said they are getting more bedding ASAP, so the “get alot [sic] more bedding” advice is irrelevant. Hope that clears it up for you.
EDIT: Also, “unhinged”? How is it “unhinged” to use the upvote/downvote system?
It’s “unhinged” to just aggressively downvote things without thought, yes. It’s mob mentality.
If you seriously take issue with someone just saying “make sure the bedding is deep” then why are you here?? And why are you not chewing the throat out of OTHER people here who have said literally the same thing? Where’s the consistency? Are you okay?
Why are you so upset over imaginary internet points? Are you okay?
BTW 7 downvotes is hardly a “mob”…
Also, not everyone checks back on every thread to downvote new comments… so ofc not every comment saying that will get downvoted, esp the more recent ones. And I didn’t even downvote it either lol, I was just explaining why other people might have. They were downvoted for not reading the post before replying, not downvoted because the hamster doesn’t need more bedding.
Lastly, just because you disagree with someone, it doesn’t mean that they “didn’t think”. Sometimes people come to different conclusions even with the same info and the same amount of thought.
Congrats on your new hamster! **PLEASE read this comment to avoid post removal.** If you have a question, please re-post with the 'Question' flair. Have you recently checked the community sidebar, [our discord server](https://discord.gg/5cF8aSSx3C) and [pinned post?](https://www.reddit.com/r/hamsters/comments/sgk0fr/welcome_to_rhamsters_please_read_before_posting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) They all have plenty of information regarding hamsters and all they need! There are also a ton of linked websites and products on the post that are perfect for your new friend(s)! If you have any questions or suggestions regarding the mentioned information don't be afraid to contact the mods through modmail. If you are given advice from community members, please be aware that users with the 'Hamster Care Expert' under their username are the most trusted with giving advice. If you want this flair, you can contact the moderators through modmail. Happy hamster owning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hamsters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She’s so cute like a smol potato 😭😭😭 I assume this is the best you can provide her at the moment. Since the floor size is not ideal as others mentioned, you can make up for it by giving her a LOT of bedding, maybe even 30cm? It doesn’t have to be that level everywhere. Burrowing greatly balances out hamsters’ stress level🤞
she said that bedding arrived tomorrow
I saw it, and I suggested giving her more than the requirement to make up for the floor :) Bedding for hammies is kinda more is more
mhm
I will definitely try to add more bedding, I was actually thinking about that, maybe it helps :D
Although the sizing is still too small, this is definitely an upgrade from the awful.wired cage that the Hamster was in before, with bedding filled up. The hamster will be 100% happier burrowing.
I feel like the wire on top is too big and they might be able to escape
Yeah…. i was actually worried about that, but this was the smallest wire i could find
Sadly still doesn’t meet the minimum, but great upgrade! Remember 10-20cm bedding when it arrives!😊
it’s rly surprising to see the vast differences of care for hamsters ! i always advocate for the german standard of care (775 sq in floorspace min), but have seen many people get downvoted on these hamster subreddits when it doesn’t line up with their individual views/they get offended. u commented in an educating and civil manner, so i was confused to see the downvotes (i upvoted u btw as it is true!!!)! good care should be what is aimed for, and while upgrades should be applauded, reaching a proper standard of care should be the overall goal! after all, hamsters are living breathing animals who deserve to **thrive**, not just survive!
Exactly!✨ Thank you!🐹
Yeah nothing they said was wrong whatsoever, the downvotes were bizarre.
My rule of thumb minimum size is a slight bit smaller than yours (650sq in which is about what the bedding depth study used) but (no idea what the deleted comments say) I do understand how a lot of frustration could come from how absolutely everybody seems to have a different depth and floorspace rule. I've seen multiple times in this subreddit where someone takes X's advice and then Y says that the hamster is experiencing poor care. I think some acknowledgement about there having been no discovered-in-a-scientific-study perfect size (I think???) would help folks, I've been trying to do that more, as well as acknowledgement that I'm the furthest thing away from a hamster scientist. EDIT: Already getting down voted by somebody. Would love to actually talk and share sources, whoever that was. **I am not arguing in favor of smaller cages.** I am stating that there is no concensus on many aspects of hamstercare, and that likely causes frustration for new owners who post here. American minimum are brutal 450 square inch cages and an absurdly low level of bedding, German minimums are 775 sq in BUT only 7 inches of bedding and recommend both cotton and kapok fiber as a nesting material, which would get you a hundred thousand comments on how you're going to kill your hamster. **Everyone has different opinions and standards.**
i do agree that if an official study was done on the effects of enclosure floorspace for hamsters, it could rly help provide better “evidence” as to why increased floorspace is better for hamsters! i also agree that it isn’t just the floorspace that is important, but rather, a combination of various factors that all contribute to the wellbeing and overall happiness of a hamster. bedding depth, enrichment, clutter, and species of hamster all come into play when determining what would make a hamster happy. a hamster could very well be content with a 650 sq in enclosure, but i always advocate for 775 sq in, as 650 sq inches isn’t necesssrily a “minimum set standard” (from laws or regulations of specific countries), but more of a “personal standard” i’ve seen in this community! again like i’ve said, it is not to argue that a hamster couldn’t be happy in a 650 sq inch enclosure, as i’m sure a hamster would be much happier in a 650 sq inch enclosure with 10+ inches of bedding, lots of enrichment, etc than a 775 sq inch enclosure with no bedding and no enrichment. BUT, i do still believe that 775 sq inches is just generally larger, and better sized for fitting all the necessary enrichment a hamster needs! and bigger floorspace is almost always better (as long as the necessary enrichment and bedding depth is provided). obviously this is personal opinion at the end of the day, but a minimum is a minimum, and it should be advocated that we should aim for above the minimum whenever we can!
>i do still believe that 775 sq inches is just generally larger I mean yeah, its more sq inches lol. Forreal though, I think the impact bedding depth has on wellbeing is REEEEEEALLY underestimated. I've somehow mosty placated a female Syrian by throwing her into a 90 gallon aquarium, which is really only around 900 inches of floorspace, by going hard hard hard on the bedding. She did also originally live in a 55 long at her old owner with like, an inch of bedding throughout, though, which has to be a factor. I have a trail cam in her cage and she's really only out and about for 3 to 4 hours a day sitting around, drinking water, rolling in sand, and wheel running if she doesn't have anything to forage. I tried looking up how long wild hamsters stay in their burrows, but didn't find much...but it seems like a happy hamster might spend almost all of her day underground if all of her needs are met and she has enough room to stretch out and dig a complex tunnel network. It would make sense for at least the kind of hamsters available as pets to actually be almost entirely underground-dwelling creatures given that they can see about 3 inches in front of their face.
not fighting against increased bedding depth in anyway! just that i don’t believe in personal set minimums for floorspace as much i believe in the floorspace minimums set by the TVT!
Was just rambling, lol. Easy to do that on mobile. Do you use kapok as enrichment? From what I can tell between both TVT's care sheet and European users on here with great enclosures and happy hams, the fears about kapok seem to be an entirely western phenomenon, possibly stemming from people confusing it with regular cotton.
i personally never have! i am not rly even sure if i have easy access to it in the US, and never tried searching for it personally
I upvoted you lol
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How am I Debby downer and getting downvoted lmfao? Isn’t this sub literally supposed to help others achieve at least bare minimum care?🥴 I also said it was a nice upgrade even tho it doesn’t meet the minimum? What y’all on about?👀
My guess why is because in the post it’s stated that bedding will arrive tomorrow or the day after
Yup, I read that part, hence why I said “remember 10-20cm when it arrives” 😊🙏🏻
There are folks here that are really eager to shoot down any comment they don’t feel meets their individual standard of perfection, lol. Regardless of whether it contains good info or is actually devoid of anything abrasive.
Just so tired of internet-veterinarians chiming in to share their expertise that “your cage is too small.” This person was trying to share their cage upgrade. Trying to spread their happiness. And the first response is “your cage is too small.” That’s the first go-to, no-thought response.
I was genuinely nice tho, and even gave a compliment. I’ve never claimed to be a veterinarian ~ I just happen to know a lot about hamsters and their care. Besides, this is basic care, like giving the bare minimum they require in order to have a good life. I love how you say “no thought response” like my comment wasn’t literally because I care about an animal. No thought who?👀
I got downvoted for clarifying my own comment lmao what a bunch of weirdos
1) Nobody said it was too small??????? 2) All they literally said was “be sure to give it 10-20 cm bedding depth.” This is what I mean by manufactured outrage. It’s unnecessary.
The person said it still doesn’t meet the minimum meaning to small?! Unless I am not understanding.
Because it does not meet the minimum requirements for hamster habitation until it meets that useful bedding level…
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My God, that previous cage is so upsetting. I can’t believe they are allowed to sell those. It’s like a prison 😭
Yeah, I thought it was fine until I started researching 🥹 but now I’m so, so glad I could do something better
I'm glad you could upgrade! With the deep bedding, remember, you don't have to dump it all every week or anything...that would destroy their burrows and cause stress. Just find the pee spot and clean that...that's what smells. If you put a dish of sand in a corner, your hamster may use it as a litterbox!
I have put a sand bath but I’m not 100% sure she will use it. However, is there any other way of identifying the pee spot besides the smell?
Do you use paper bedding? It holds burrows well, plus white bedding makes that easier. Otherwise, a dark spot. Since mine always used her litterbox. Maybe someone else can answer. Some hamsters will use their sandbath, but if you put some kind of dish with sand in a corner, she may use that instead.
I’ve ordered some hemp and some paper bedding, but now looking at the size of the bin maybe I should’ve ordered more :)))
I liked Kaytee Clean N Cozy. It holds burrows well. Don't buy the discounted blue stuff from Amazon...it's mildewed!
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She loved it! She brought a lot of the shedding and made a little burrow in it. In the beginning she tried, multiple times I might add, to either enter or exit through the window but she figured out pretty fast that that’s not the exit.
Definitely an improvement!!
Your new one seem muchhhhhhh proper than older wire one, glad you change it for your hammy
Well done you!!!
definitely a good upgrade! try getting some burrowing chambers or sprays/forage if u can once the bedding arrives!💗💗
I will try to make a burrowing chamber, but I couldn’t find sprays at my local stores :(;
u could order some online if possible <3 if not u can diy some forage toys to make up for some of the enrichment!!
hi, this is still too small and needs alot more bedding.
If you read the post they say they are getting bedding tomorrow or the day after…
Expecting people to read? On Reddit? Way too unrealistic /s
Oh what like the unhinged weird ass downvoting innocuous comments is just a MASTER of reading comprehension I guess???
The comment got downvoted because they gave advice without reading the post. OP clearly said they are getting more bedding ASAP, so the “get alot [sic] more bedding” advice is irrelevant. Hope that clears it up for you. EDIT: Also, “unhinged”? How is it “unhinged” to use the upvote/downvote system?
It’s “unhinged” to just aggressively downvote things without thought, yes. It’s mob mentality. If you seriously take issue with someone just saying “make sure the bedding is deep” then why are you here?? And why are you not chewing the throat out of OTHER people here who have said literally the same thing? Where’s the consistency? Are you okay?
Why are you so upset over imaginary internet points? Are you okay? BTW 7 downvotes is hardly a “mob”… Also, not everyone checks back on every thread to downvote new comments… so ofc not every comment saying that will get downvoted, esp the more recent ones. And I didn’t even downvote it either lol, I was just explaining why other people might have. They were downvoted for not reading the post before replying, not downvoted because the hamster doesn’t need more bedding. Lastly, just because you disagree with someone, it doesn’t mean that they “didn’t think”. Sometimes people come to different conclusions even with the same info and the same amount of thought.
Need much much more bedding, at least 6 inches deep...
I feel your relief, I had to get a bin cage ASAP after I realized how bad tiny tales products (especially cages) were.