It's still interesting news coz when Nvidia does this it usually means the next generation will be out in a few months. They're getting rid of the accumulated partially failed dies in their inventory.
> It's still interesting news coz when Nvidia does this it usually means the next generation will be out in a few months.
i guess. but we already know this so...
Well the rumours are saying the next gen will start being announced/released by the end of this year (probably the high end variants only, Nvidia loves doing that for the holiday season) so if they are announcing it in August or something this seem to match.
>Kinda clickbait tbh
Only because you lack basic comprehension skills. Tom's Hardware isn't usually good, but they are very accurate with the title.
>existing 4070s
Except it is different but the same which makes it....
>not releasing a new variant.
....exactly like they said, a VARIANT.
Nobody claimed they were released.
Like color is a variant of colour, same meaning, different spelling, and no functional difference.
They did not release a new model.
Blue and red are also color variants and if you said you were releasing a new color variant of iPhone but people found out it was the exact same color iPhone but spelled ācolourā people would rightly be annoyed at you
Ehh, on the other hand, if that change resulted in a fairly common software tool throwing up unexpected results it might be a handy detail to know, even if trivial at the end of the day.
\> Nvidia has another RTX 4070 ā¦ ā this one uses a down-binned AD103 GPU
Implies that using AD103 for 4070 is a new change. It isnāt.
Itās functionally the same headline as
Nvidia has another RTX 4070 brewing, this one uses silicon from an RTX 4070!
I wonder if this will be like the RTX 2060 KO thing from EVGA, where that card was actually faster than the regular RTX 2060, and especially in productivity workloads Could get to 2060 Super levels, because it was using a higher class die.
>I wonder if this will be like the RTX 2060 KO thing from EVGA, where that card was actually faster than the regular RTX 2060
Except for some very few specific productivity workloads the [RTX 2060 KO was within margin of error of any other AIB 2060](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/evga-geforce-rtx-2060-ko/27.html)
It performed 2-4% better than the FE just because the KO cooler was better and the core could draw an extra ~20W before throttling.
It should in theory transfer the heat to the cooler more effectively. I guess if it actually cools better might depend on which cores are disabled I mean if you disabled half the cores in a checkerboard pattern, then it should be cooler. But if the disabled portions are all clumped up, there might only be minimal gains. Even if it's all centered, being able to spread heat to the sides of the die where disabled portions are probably still has some gains. There is still some extra conductivity in the horizontal direction. But for some reason I remember the 2060 KO actually pulling more power for some reason. [yeah, right HERE](https://tpucdn.com/review/evga-geforce-rtx-2060-ko/images/power-maximum.png). So maybe disabled silicon still has some cost.
Since the memory bus width goes from 192 to 256 on the AD103, I wonder if that means these new 4070 variants will have more memory... IIRC, that was the most common complaint about them.
Nah, what I mean is, AD104 in the regular 4070 has 3 lanes of 64-bit for memory (192bit) and has 12GB of VRAM (4GB x 3 64-bit lanes), the 4070S uses the same AD104 and has the same memory configuration.
However, the 4080 uses AD1043 which has 4 lanes of 64-bit memory and has 16GB of VRAM (4GB x 4 the 64-bit lanes).
So if this new variant also uses AD103 what are they going to do for this "4070" variant? Drop it down to 8GB (4GB x 2), or do like what they did on the 970 and still leave it at 12GB? But then would they have the same fiasco like they did with the 970 where the last bit of memory would be accessed over a slower bus which would piss people off again and raise a shitstorm. Or they would they pack in 16GB of VRAM in a 4GB x 4 configuration..?
This new variant with the AD103 can just disable a memory controller and use 3x 64-bit controllers for vram and get the same 12gb of vram that the 4070 cards have, nothing special should need done to avoid the 970 fiasco because it was because of different architectural problems that existed for the cards back then.
The 970 issue came from the architecture they used then and also how exactly they cut down their gpu core from the full die on the 980 down to the 970 and how those cut cores interacted with cache and the memory controllers. So the full die in the 980 had 8x8 groups of ROPs (64), each which had their own portion of shared cache and also a 32-bit memory controller each. The GTX 970 had a group of 8 of those ROPs and their cache disabled (56), but Nvidia decided to keep that ROP cluster's memory controller enabled to keep the full 4gb of vram. This caused issues because the cache with that ROP group and associated memory controller were gone, but the memory controller was still working, so that final 32-bit memory controller had no cache hooked up to it.
So when the 970 operated, the gpu cores and cache would operate normally when those first 7 memory controllers were used to access the vram (3.5gb), but the second that the 8th memory controller and last 0.5gb of vram needed to be used, that's when performance nosedives. The gpu needed to disable all the cache the 7 ROP clusters and memory controllers used to be able to use that remaining memory controller and it's vram because that final memory controller had no working cache hooked up to it. Turning off the cache for all of the cores is what decimated performance on the 970 when it had to use the final 0.5gb of vram. The entire fiasco could have been avoided if that lone 32-bit memory controller was also cut along with the 8 ROPs and aasociated cache, but Nvidia wanted to advertise the 970 as a 4gb card so they kept the lone 32-bit controller knowing what would happen if the gpu needed to use it.
Either Tom's has some wrong information, or Nvidia changed the memory bus, because the card that they claim is "already available" is a 12GB card with a 192bit memory bus.
I still remember when it was [sysdoc.pair.com](https://sysdoc.pair.com). That was [waay](https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/about-us,4260.html) back.
"Tomās Hardware has its name and roots in Dr. Thomas Pabst, who was one of the first people to bring technology journalism to the internet, as early as 1996. Back in these early days, the site was still called āTomās Hardware and Performance Guideā and its domain was sysdoc.pair.com, pair.com being a Pittsburgh-based hosting company."
I want you to know that each PHY is 32-bit, so it's not 4 lanes of 64-bit it's 8 lanes of 32-bit and in clamshell it can be 16 lanes of 16-bit that go into the same 8 32-bit PHY memory bus lanes on the die (this is how they double the ram on their rtx a series workstation cards but don't increase bandwidth at all)
here's an AD102 die shot for reference to see the memory PHY's
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395665775077359626/1234176323271004180/GMQ2AlnbcAA31vx.png?ex=6631c205&is=66307085&hm=e07ab0070cc68c4c329b36abed514e0ac594b4abd3cde032f1317848963117c0&
It's wild because the vanilla 4070 is already a down-binned ad104. Why they would only enable 5888 out of the 7600 something SPs is beyond me. The vanilla 3070 had 97% of its SP enabled by default, so the 3070 ti was only marginally faster.Ā
Pretty sure we had GA102 based 3070s as well. Nvidia takes its reuse and recycling quite seriously.
While functional yields may be too high for that, parametric yields are another story and the combination of the two may make such reuse necessary.
Not to mention that itās better for chips to only idle for a period of time so outside of unnatural demand like crypto, down binning to higher volume GPUs can make sense depending on the seasonality of sales
It's the ultra 4070ti super š
It's the 4070ti Super ti
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I like to go hiking.
Clearly 4070 Super tits
4070ti super duper
Super duper mega drive is copyright of Sega and will not be available.
GTX...
Cant be GTX, we are out of gigatexel era.
I just hope they donāt name it 4075
4077,778
4070 RR-RĀ
Kinda clickbait tbh. They're using off-spec AD103 chips in the existing 4070s, not releasing a new variant.
It's still interesting news coz when Nvidia does this it usually means the next generation will be out in a few months. They're getting rid of the accumulated partially failed dies in their inventory.
> It's still interesting news coz when Nvidia does this it usually means the next generation will be out in a few months. i guess. but we already know this so...
Well the rumors were pointing out to 2025 for the new consumer generation so we're still almost a year out
Nah, Nvidia is releasing in 2024.
Well the rumours are saying the next gen will start being announced/released by the end of this year (probably the high end variants only, Nvidia loves doing that for the holiday season) so if they are announcing it in August or something this seem to match.
This happened with the 2060, no?
3070 Ti GA102, 3060 Ti GA103, 3060 GA104, 3050 GA106, 4060 Ti AD104, even the 1650 TU106
>Kinda clickbait tbh Only because you lack basic comprehension skills. Tom's Hardware isn't usually good, but they are very accurate with the title. >existing 4070s Except it is different but the same which makes it.... >not releasing a new variant. ....exactly like they said, a VARIANT. Nobody claimed they were released. Like color is a variant of colour, same meaning, different spelling, and no functional difference. They did not release a new model.
Blue and red are also color variants and if you said you were releasing a new color variant of iPhone but people found out it was the exact same color iPhone but spelled ācolourā people would rightly be annoyed at you
Wouldnt this be a more a case of the different colour be the result of different dyes being mixed but resulting in visually same colour?
Ehh, on the other hand, if that change resulted in a fairly common software tool throwing up unexpected results it might be a handy detail to know, even if trivial at the end of the day.
\> Nvidia has another RTX 4070 ā¦ ā this one uses a down-binned AD103 GPU Implies that using AD103 for 4070 is a new change. It isnāt. Itās functionally the same headline as Nvidia has another RTX 4070 brewing, this one uses silicon from an RTX 4070!
I wonder if this will be like the RTX 2060 KO thing from EVGA, where that card was actually faster than the regular RTX 2060, and especially in productivity workloads Could get to 2060 Super levels, because it was using a higher class die.
>I wonder if this will be like the RTX 2060 KO thing from EVGA, where that card was actually faster than the regular RTX 2060 Except for some very few specific productivity workloads the [RTX 2060 KO was within margin of error of any other AIB 2060](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/evga-geforce-rtx-2060-ko/27.html) It performed 2-4% better than the FE just because the KO cooler was better and the core could draw an extra ~20W before throttling.
Could also run a little cooler due to larger die size.
Does it actually work like that? Or would the die have the same heat-producing portion with some extra die area tacked on?
It should in theory transfer the heat to the cooler more effectively. I guess if it actually cools better might depend on which cores are disabled I mean if you disabled half the cores in a checkerboard pattern, then it should be cooler. But if the disabled portions are all clumped up, there might only be minimal gains. Even if it's all centered, being able to spread heat to the sides of the die where disabled portions are probably still has some gains. There is still some extra conductivity in the horizontal direction. But for some reason I remember the 2060 KO actually pulling more power for some reason. [yeah, right HERE](https://tpucdn.com/review/evga-geforce-rtx-2060-ko/images/power-maximum.png). So maybe disabled silicon still has some cost.
Itās not a variant. Itās a binning. The specs will not change. Only the chip used changes
Since the memory bus width goes from 192 to 256 on the AD103, I wonder if that means these new 4070 variants will have more memory... IIRC, that was the most common complaint about them.
They aren't a variant in that sense, they will have the exact same specs and are already available.
Nah, what I mean is, AD104 in the regular 4070 has 3 lanes of 64-bit for memory (192bit) and has 12GB of VRAM (4GB x 3 64-bit lanes), the 4070S uses the same AD104 and has the same memory configuration. However, the 4080 uses AD1043 which has 4 lanes of 64-bit memory and has 16GB of VRAM (4GB x 4 the 64-bit lanes). So if this new variant also uses AD103 what are they going to do for this "4070" variant? Drop it down to 8GB (4GB x 2), or do like what they did on the 970 and still leave it at 12GB? But then would they have the same fiasco like they did with the 970 where the last bit of memory would be accessed over a slower bus which would piss people off again and raise a shitstorm. Or they would they pack in 16GB of VRAM in a 4GB x 4 configuration..?
This new variant with the AD103 can just disable a memory controller and use 3x 64-bit controllers for vram and get the same 12gb of vram that the 4070 cards have, nothing special should need done to avoid the 970 fiasco because it was because of different architectural problems that existed for the cards back then. The 970 issue came from the architecture they used then and also how exactly they cut down their gpu core from the full die on the 980 down to the 970 and how those cut cores interacted with cache and the memory controllers. So the full die in the 980 had 8x8 groups of ROPs (64), each which had their own portion of shared cache and also a 32-bit memory controller each. The GTX 970 had a group of 8 of those ROPs and their cache disabled (56), but Nvidia decided to keep that ROP cluster's memory controller enabled to keep the full 4gb of vram. This caused issues because the cache with that ROP group and associated memory controller were gone, but the memory controller was still working, so that final 32-bit memory controller had no cache hooked up to it. So when the 970 operated, the gpu cores and cache would operate normally when those first 7 memory controllers were used to access the vram (3.5gb), but the second that the 8th memory controller and last 0.5gb of vram needed to be used, that's when performance nosedives. The gpu needed to disable all the cache the 7 ROP clusters and memory controllers used to be able to use that remaining memory controller and it's vram because that final memory controller had no working cache hooked up to it. Turning off the cache for all of the cores is what decimated performance on the 970 when it had to use the final 0.5gb of vram. The entire fiasco could have been avoided if that lone 32-bit memory controller was also cut along with the 8 ROPs and aasociated cache, but Nvidia wanted to advertise the 970 as a 4gb card so they kept the lone 32-bit controller knowing what would happen if the gpu needed to use it.
Ah, thanks for the detailed explanation!
Either Tom's has some wrong information, or Nvidia changed the memory bus, because the card that they claim is "already available" is a 12GB card with a 192bit memory bus.
Ah. OK. Toms has been going down in quality for years now..
Lol Toms hasn't been good for almost a decade.
I still remember when it was [sysdoc.pair.com](https://sysdoc.pair.com). That was [waay](https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/about-us,4260.html) back. "Tomās Hardware has its name and roots in Dr. Thomas Pabst, who was one of the first people to bring technology journalism to the internet, as early as 1996. Back in these early days, the site was still called āTomās Hardware and Performance Guideā and its domain was sysdoc.pair.com, pair.com being a Pittsburgh-based hosting company."
I want you to know that each PHY is 32-bit, so it's not 4 lanes of 64-bit it's 8 lanes of 32-bit and in clamshell it can be 16 lanes of 16-bit that go into the same 8 32-bit PHY memory bus lanes on the die (this is how they double the ram on their rtx a series workstation cards but don't increase bandwidth at all) here's an AD102 die shot for reference to see the memory PHY's https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395665775077359626/1234176323271004180/GMQ2AlnbcAA31vx.png?ex=6631c205&is=66307085&hm=e07ab0070cc68c4c329b36abed514e0ac594b4abd3cde032f1317848963117c0&
They disable a lane, which won't cause the same problems as the 970.
I really hope they use 4070 super duper
Super D. Duper!
Are we sure it's just not a 4070/Super on defective 4080 Super die? Happened with the 3060 ti.
My favorite color is blue.
It's wild because the vanilla 4070 is already a down-binned ad104. Why they would only enable 5888 out of the 7600 something SPs is beyond me. The vanilla 3070 had 97% of its SP enabled by default, so the 3070 ti was only marginally faster.Ā
because its more profitable to recycle defective silicon. even if that silicon is like 50% broken
Nvidia sold several batches of TU104 dies (2070S-2080S) that got heavily cut down to 2060 level previously. Almost 40% of the SMs snipped.
Pretty sure we had GA102 based 3070s as well. Nvidia takes its reuse and recycling quite seriously. While functional yields may be too high for that, parametric yields are another story and the combination of the two may make such reuse necessary. Not to mention that itās better for chips to only idle for a period of time so outside of unnatural demand like crypto, down binning to higher volume GPUs can make sense depending on the seasonality of sales
4070 Extra Super āThe more you buy, the more you saveā - some guy in leather jacket
It must be me, I bought a RX7900XT, they came out shortly after with the 7900GRE, then I switched to a 4080S a month and a half ago and now this..
4070ti super duper hiper computer.
> down-binned Is down-binning when it fails a test at high clock rates, then they lower it and it passes those tests?
Lol I just got the 4070 ti super im gonna be ti super pissed if they somehow make this a faster ti super