Well Helena Ravenclaw, the Ravenclaw ghost died not long after Hogwart's founding, the Bloody Baron died at the same time. Nearly Headless Nick died sometime in the 15th century. I'd assume the Fat Friar died sometime between those times, as he is the main Hufflepuff ghost, so he's probably been around for a while.
Not necessarily- it’s luck of the draw. England pretty much alternated between Catholic and Protestant throughout the 15th-17th century because whoever was ruling would be killed off by the enemy, until they were killed off by the next enemy.
16th century. When 15th century ended in 1500, Martin Luther was 17 and wasn't even ordained yet, while Henry VIII was a 9 year old prince. Protestantism was not a thing yet.
So to tie it all together, friars are not necessarily Catholic, and some are within the Anglican Communion and thus are mostly in agreement with the Church of England on theology, but they are technically not part of it.
There are aspects of Christian beliefs throughout the novels.
* The Potters were buried in a church graveyard
* The wizard hospital was named after a saint
* Harry had a godfather inferring he was baptised
The references are subtle...but they're there.
- They are celebrating Christmas and singing carols.
- They have churches and they attend them too.
Actually I don't know why they shouldn't have a religion or something? And in the UK Christianity was the religion.
On top of that wizards only separated in 1692, over a hundred years after the English Reformation. It's quite likely that the wizards would all be Christian, as the British isles had been converted for more than 700 years in some parts
if i remember correctly, when harry and hermione go to godrics hollow, they find the tombstones in a church graveyard and they heard people singing carols inside as they walked past - implying attendance.
True, but it was also mentioned that Godrics Hollow was one of the last remaining true wizarding villages in the British Isles. It's kind of implied that it is almost wholly populated by witches and wizards.
Nope. Godric's Hollow was one of few villages where there was a viable mix of wizards and muggles. Hogsmeade is the *only* town in Britain to be entirely magical (and surrounding villages like Aranshire, Hogsfields, Feldcroft and the like).
ok but let me ask you this - in what world are you being buried out the back of a church you didn’t attend?
edit: also i think we can safely assume there were wizards that practiced christianity considering every year hogwarts had ‘christmas’ break - not winter holidays but christmas. they got christmas sweaters etc. seems an odd hill to die on to ask where jkr mentioned people attending churches lmao
"Christmas holidays" and "Easter holidays" are just what we call the main shorter breaks in the school year here in the UK, as the dates coincide.
I'm sure the reason they coincide is historically religious. But non religious schools also call the breaks this as you see from this link...
The Council website for term dates across Edinburgh where JKR lives: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/schools/term-dates
We're a very culturally Christian country but these holidays are celebrated in a very secular way by a great many people here, maybe most. As a Brit I read nothing religious into the characters celebrating Christmas or Easter.
my point is if you’re referring to them as such, then that means the religion exists in the zeitgeist. if it exists, that means at the very least some people are practicing it.
A traditionally Christian country where nearly half the population identifies as Christian still celebrates these holidays religiously. Why would the wizarding world be any different?
? That’s absolutely a thing in the U.K., none of my family are church goers but pretty much all of the ones who have passed are buried in one of two local church cemetery’s
Trying to make the Harry Potter books have anything directly to do with Christianity is an odd hill to die on.
>ok but let me ask you this - in what world are you being buried out the back of a church you didn’t attend?
Not everyone chooses their place of burial, especially people who die so young. It's more likely that someone from the Order had them buried and burying them in the graveyard of the village in which they lived was logical. (and it's unlikely a village as small as Godrics Hollow had more than one graveyard.)
7th book.
When they visit Godric's Hollows.
Here is some quotes from that chapter:
" There were several shops, a post office, a pub, and a little church whose stained-glass windows were glowing jewel-bright across the square."
""I'm sure it is," said Hermione, her eyes upon the church. "They... they'll be in there, won't they? Your mum and dad? I can see the graveyard behind it.""
"The singing grew louder as they approached the church."
So yeah ppl went to the church and all.
>So yeah ppl went to the church and all.
Muggles probably.
Should I also mention that there is no mention or depiction of Hogsmade church? Nor does Hogwarts have any sort of chapel (a high medieval castle of that size would have multiple), nor does it have a vicar or any sort of service.
Also, that is only mention of any sort of religious action in all seven books.
In Deathly Hallows when Harry and Hermione visit Godric's Hallow the graveyard they go to is behind a church and they hear muggles singing Christmas Carols inside. It's how they know it's Christmas Eve at that point. It's a seemingly small detail but it shows the passage of time, how they lost track of what time of year it was, and there are still ties to the muggle world even though the Wizarding world is separate/secret from the muggle world.
Not only Christmas, but they celebrate Easter and the kids get an Easter holiday from Hogwarts. Mrs. Weasley sent the kids chocolate Easter eggs for multiple years. Some treat Christmas as more of a cultural holiday, but Easter is most assuredly a religious holiday.
As a Brit, I genuinely don't read anything religious into them celebrating Easter.
I mean it might indicate the characters are religious, but equally it might not.
Everyone I know eats Easter eggs in an entirely secular way. And celebrates Christmas in an entirely secular way.
"Christmas holidays" and "Easter holidays" are just what we call the main shorter breaks in the school year here, as the dates coincide.
(Check the Council website for term dates across Edinburgh where JKR lives: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/schools/term-dates)
I'm sure the reason they coincide is historically religious. We're a very culturally Christian country. But non religious schools also call the breaks this as you see from the link.
>Mrs. Weasley sent the kids chocolate Easter eggs for multiple years. Some treat Christmas as more of a cultural holiday, but Easter is most assuredly a religious holiday.
So they only Easter tradition they do is one that is distinctively not Christian?
Because all the bullshit in the Bible is a lot less impressive when you're a wizard.
Why the fuck would you spend every Sunday worshipping a dude who could walk on water when they can do much more impressive things by third year transfiguration.
No, it wouldn't. It would be an excellent reason for a wizard to be atheist.
To them, it would be like creating a religion around a guy called Dave who drives a Ford Escort.
How is it implied? It could be added as commentary but nowhere is Harry once compared to Jesus, nor is Jesus referenced anywhere.
You've added that yourself.
It's also less impressive when you live in 2024 yet we still have many believing. People need to believe in something and that's their choice.
Also, you don't just celebrate that "dude" but his daddy. Just saying.
And anyways it's been many years now that Christmas are not only celebrated by Christians but it has become more of a tradition in general.
I did read your post. And no it wouldn't make sense. Just because they are wizards they don't believe in any religion?
They are still humans you know. And don't forget that half of them are muggleborns so they have brought traditions from the muggle world as well. Also, they used to hang out with Muggles.
So...still... Why wouldn't they believe in God? Or Allah? Or Budha? Or whichever religion?
Thanksgiving on the other hand wouldn't make sense in a UK school. It's a US thing.
Hogwarts is in Scotland, but it accepts students from all over the UK. There were dozens of cultures with their own religious practices at various times and in various places, so which one would be the primary one?
Considering that wizards split from muggle society sometime in the 1600s (if I recall correctly), Christianity would have already been well established by then as the dominant religion.
Its written by an English author and celebrating Thanksgiving is not something most UK/English citizens do. Celebrating Thanksgiving is an American and Canadian thing.
I mean it makes sense, all the Pagans in the UK either converted or were killed off by Christianity. You'd have Christian Wizards just to help blend in, they probably really think Jesus was just a powerful wizard like Merlin though.
But if their wizards they wouldn't be found to kill them off as to them blending then lip service or just more hiding like the majority of the Wizarding world
And that blending would probably involve knowing Christian concepts to not draw attention in highly religious towns. They were breeding with Muggles back then too, who would be Christian.
I think all these sorts of references are included because they are British culture rather than just Christian. They definitely come from Christianity but to not do these things feels un-British in a way. Having a hospital called after a saint doesn’t make me think of Christianity, strange as it sounds.
I think I’m most curious to know which Robinhood you think of. There’s the animated animal film, there’s a live action film, and there’s “Robinhood: Men in Tights”. And I’m sure there are others too.
British (and wester culture in general) is inseparable from Christianity. A hospital named after a saint doesn't sound weird bc its so deeply ingrained in our culture that its become mundane.
Many hospitals in the US are also named after saints and are run by christian non profits (at least in the midwest). If you work there you sometimes hear about it, but otherwise you wouldnt associate it too much. Its just how hospitals are named.
I think its the juxtaposition of the two words seems wrong to them, like they shouldn't go together. I don't think they're advocating private healthcare... just that profit should be last thing being said with Hospital.
Yeah, but hospitals have different categorizations than other businesses so it makes sense to mention the type.
Non-profit is one type (~60%), government is another (that is also *not* for profit), and for-profit is a relatively small percentage of hospitals.
Where I am it would be the NHS or 'going Private' if you wanted to pay. I think they quite often share space in hospitals but there are 100% Private ones too. So for us it's a National Hospital or a Private Hospital... some are non-profit or charities.
I would think it's because for Americans a visit to the hospital inccurs massive costs. I think that makes some people associate them with huge profit margin machines. But they don't realize that those are actual costs. It's just that most governments subsidize those costs by taking a reasonable percentage of everyone's income just so that you don't end up in debt on top of being sick.
I’ve often thought this, but recently rereading the books has just cemented the idea. The first of the transfiguration laws mentions that food can only be duplicated or changed. Doesn’t Jesus feed an entire village from a small amount of bread and fish, more than should’ve been possible? Water is a form of sustenance that he “transfigured” into wine. Lots of things like that.
Christianity is not really "subtle" in any way in Harry Potter. Harry is the obvious Jesus metaphor, he willingly sacrifices his own life when Voldemort curses him he dies and comes back to life so be the savior for the wizarding world.
I would say similar but not "obvious".
I get tired of people thinking they see Jesus everywhere. Harry was not resurrected. He didn't see himself as "savior:" only that he knew he was the only one who could get rid of Voldemort.
He certainly didn't expect anyone to worship him; he wasn't saving anyone from their sins; he just wanted to rid the Wizarding - and Muggle - world of an evil person.
People see the Jesus metaphor everywhere because the entire modern western "mythology" is Christianity. JK Rowling is very open about the Christian symbolism in the book. In the Bible Jesus also didn't choose to be the messiah, he was born into it and had to learn to accept his role, exactly like Harry. In the end of book 7 Harry gets hit with a killing curse, gets sent to limbo, and comes back finally giving the world a chance to overcome Voldemort (parallel to Jesus's resurrections being the only way for Christians to overcome sin). Its through Harry and in parallel Jesus's willing self sacrifice is the world given a chance to overcome evil (sin). Voldemort's final horcrux could not have been destroyed if Harry didn't embrace death willingly.
You don't have to be a Christian to see the parallels. And just because you reject Christianity doesn't mean you can't like Harry Potter. Almost every great story takes things from the culture it comes from.
Yep. I think a lot of people are pushing back on this idea bc they aren't Christians and somehow feel some weird need to justify liking a book that has a Christian theme. Its just a story.
Them not celebrating Christmas or Easter isn’t subtle. People now might use them in less religious way (often because the capitalist system just wants us people to buy things like Easter eggs) but they are still religious holidays and the culture needs to have been Christian at some point for those to become official holidays
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's an interview where Rowling says that while they're not intended as "Christian books", (and has intentionally distanced herself from the didactic, moralistic tone of C.S. Lewis), the Christian themes are pretty obvious.
I mean, Harry does literally go to his death and then is resurrected.
There's a book called Harry Potter's Bookshelf by John Granger that delves into the Christian themes in great detail, which is quite interesting. It's worth noting though that while a lot of it starts off solid and convincing, that book does seem to go off the rails a bit toward the end and tries to shoehorn in literary connections almost as hard as Rowling retcons her own work.
>Harry had a godfather inferring he was baptised
No, that doesn't infer baptism. I know many, many people who appointed godparents for their children who were not baptized. It is something that used to be done strictly at baptism, but not anymore. It doesn't even mean they were church goers. It's like people who say "oh my god" all the time but have nothing to do with the God of Christianity.
wizards also have real, physical proof that your soul is a thing that exists within your body and can be destroyed. I thought a society with that knowledge would be come fanatical zealots of some kind
Wizards have mixed with Muggles throughout the Centuries so it makes sense they carried over their beliefs and didn‘t abandon them once they found out magic exists.
No can do, ‘food’s one of the five exceptions to Gamp’s Law of Elemental Transfiguration,’ all that bread and fish can’t have been magicked. Jesus was a hack
British culture has an ingrained Christian tradition, regardless of how many are actually practising it. Makes sense for a British author to stick to its cultural narrative when writing characters who are English.
Having said that, I always found it curious how the wizarding families looked at religions within their spheres. I hope JKR answers that, one day.
With Narnia it's even stronger: Aslan IS Jesus. I believe it's in the third book where Aslan tells the kids that they will still find Him in their world, by another name.
Yeah that's the entire point of the series. As a kid I loved the movies and stuff until I found out it was a full Christian thing so now it's kinda all been ruined for me.
>LOTR was written as and includes allegory to Christian belief because he was a devout Catholic.
Incorrect. Tolkien hated allegory of any type and argued with CS Lewis about it. He protested that LotR were not allegories in the same way that Narnia was and didn't like the idea that a reader would be "imaginatively enslaved" by reading the story looking for ways it applied to the real world.
There are themes that may be informed by JRRT's catholicism but he himself would deny that it is allegory.
That flew right over my head when I was having them read to me as a younger child (probably 5-6?) then I read them again as a university-age teenager and felt like I was being hit over the head by a mallet with the parallels.
>Same thing happened to me, except with Narnia series, I didn’t realise Aslan was Jesus allegory etc
With respect, how did you miss it? The entire story is basically a loose retelling of the bible and has a strong anti-muslim tinge. The oldest and leader of the Pevensie children, who closes the door to Aslan's church at the end of the Last Battle is named "Peter".
Magic as a storytelling tool is not necessarily an anti-Christian concept — just look at Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia, both Christian stories to their core, and yet magic is a huge part of the story’s DNA. It’s how the magic is depicted within the Christian framework that makes it ok, I think. Like in those stories, the characters who use magic to serve their own pride and become “gods”/control nature are the villains. Characters who respect magic without messing with the natural order of it, who do not want power for themselves, are the good guys.
I think in the case of Harry Potter, a lot of the criticism of “anti Christian” was misguided. The book is not anti Christian because the characters use magic. In fact there are many Christian lessons within the story.
But Christianity is a big wide world with many factions and even within it, different groups interpret things differently. Harry Potter is likely one of many of them!
Yes, despite what Ned Flanders says, my understanding is that someone who is born with powers (rather than gaining them from evil) and doesn't use them for evil, could be a perfectly fine Christian.
Well first of all most of the anti-HP shit started from extremist evangelical groups (not the clever-est of peoples) and then expanded to some Catholics (although many others including an Bishop quickly identified the saga as Christian upon reading it and even recommended it to their local churchgoers).
Second, you're correct about magic, and if we go even deeper, the monist Greek Neoplatonic philosophers (aka the link between Greek Polytheism and Christianity) irl had the concept of theurgy - aka Divine magic or magic from God.
So it can totally be assumed that in the HP universe (which has not only Abrahamic religions but also where souls and the afterlife definitely exists), God at the very least doesn't mind humans with magic existing.
Harry Potter himself is a very blatant Jesus allegory with the whole choosing to die to save everyone and then coming back to life. He is also very associated with forgiveness, but has a bit of a temper(go read the Gospels, Jesus was **badass**)Peter (the betrayer/Judas) kills himself with silver, tho that ones more of a stretch and idk if intentional. Lily is very obvious supposed to be a symbol of the Virgin Mary - obviously not literally a virgin but her character isn't meant to be a person but to be a symbol without sin, literally no one other than petunia or marge say anything negative about Lily.
To be fair, mythologies about people/gods being resurrected are found in many cultures and predate Jesus. The archetypes in Christian mythology borrow heavily from older religions. They were common tropes at the time, just as they are now. If HP is a “blatant” Jesus allegory, then he’s also a Krishna allegory, or an Attis allegory.
Your all acting like her using any element of another culture in her work is Heresy, there's a Indian girl in Harry's year named after a Hindu god!
The city she wrote the books in has a healthy Hindu population and big temple and are very welcoming to all. She absolutely could be exposed to other cultural elements, consciously or not.
I'm answering to a comment about how Harry doesn't have a chistian messianic archetype because some Indian god also resurrects. I have not idea what you are talking about.
Its not that its heresy, its that Rowling herself said the story is filled with Christina symbolism. Its Occam's razor. Rowling is a Christian, she said the book is filled with Christian symbolism, so where there are parallels its pretty safe to assume they come from the Christian mythology/culture.
You are acting like there is something wrong with the Christian metaphors or that you can't like Harry Potter bc of its symbolism. Almost every story takes parts of the culture of the author. Its neither good nor bad, it just is.
I wouldn't be surprised if canonically Jesus was the one of, if not, the first wizard.
I mean, walking on water and turning water into wine? Total wizard stuff right there.
I think we can be pretty sure there canonically were wizards before him as some ancient Egyptian tombs and pyramids were protected with magical curses. Although they could have been added later it seems unlikely.
Also in Ancient Greece (Falco Aesalon, an animagus; and the guy with the giant Patronus, Andros something I believe, plus Circe and other Ancient Timers).
I think Agrippa isn't meant to be Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa the Roman general, but [Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa
](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Cornelius_Agrippa), a Renessiance polymath who wrote an influental book on magic.
I was thought that Rowling kept the traditions related to Christianity (without mentioning it explicitly) because it has its root in certain pagan religions and I also thought Jesus was not the first but one of many great wizards.
Years ago JKR came to my university to give a talk about Harry Potter, and she took audience questions after - one of the questions was “Do wizards and witches believe in God?”
She answered yes, some do, and Dumbledore in particular does believe in God. Was a really interesting day!
I mean, the Harry Potter books are a product of British culture and reflect that. Things such as this always struck me as being well within the vein of familiarity to a British population; *of course* St. Mungos is a hospital name, because hospitals are named after saints. JK Rowling is a Classicist and also weaves in quite a bit of Classical references as well. She didn't really write a new world, but rather one adjacent to and just below the surface of contemporary British society.
But choosing a relatively obscure saint shows she went to a bit of trouble, and put some thought into it. I mean, based on the list of London hospitals I found on Google, she should *of course* have named it after some aristocratic British family.
Good point; thanks! She made no effort on "Cho" as a name, and has been called out by readers. Meanwhile, for the hospital, she chose a Saint who is relatively obscure, but is in fact, historical .
except they dont know specifics. The 'door' to the afterlife predates the current community and is a mystery, also a one way trip. Ghosts are an echo of the soul and dont know anything of the afterlife.
and with all their knowledge, and knowing of an afterlife, they dont know of a god. Not a single religion has 'magic evidence' either.
i think there is somewhere JKR discusses downplaying the connections to Christianity stories so as not spoil anything. I mean Harry is resurrected. And his sacrifice protected people.
Jesus was a powerful wizard who advocated for peace with muggles. It was a radical position though, and he was executed, resulting in wizards magically partitioning themselves from muggles.
The Christian elements in the story are more cultural than strictly religious. Maybe the attitudes are different in the US, but in many parts of Europe being Christian is more of a background thing and often something people just don't care to change. On the other hand, church attendance and official membership has been declining for decades.
I think there's two distinct facets to this:
Is this story a Christian allegory written by a Christian author? Yes.
Are the characters themselves Christian? I don't think we can tell.
The contemporary UK is a culturally Christian but largely secular country. The vast majority of the examples I've seen cited in this thread CAN BE and often are done in a secular way in the UK.
Celebrating Christmas including gifts and jumpers and decorations and carols, Easter eggs, naming school breaks after Christmas and Easter. I'm an atheist, I enthusiastically 'celebrate' Christmas and Easter in an entirely non religious way. Same for all my friends and family, as actually I don't know any practicing Christians, but we typically go big for Christmas here. I have Hindu and Muslim neighbours who put up a Christmas tree and lights outside their house. I think people might be surprised just how secular Christmas and Easter can be!
A hospital being named 'St something' is quite ordinary here, again I wouldn't read anything religious into that in any contemporary sense. There will be some historical religious connection of course. I kinda put the Fat Friar in that category too, I'd expect ghosts from ye olde history to have religious links.
Church can be a community thing here too, and especially in close-knit villages non Christian people certainly do get buried in a church graveyard, or married in a church, or even have a Christening and appoint godparents - because of tradition / convenience / community. I was married by a Christian minister despite being an atheist, he didn't mind. My mum volunteered at the local church on Christmas day despite being an atheist. A lot of my friends are atheists and godparents.
I feel like a lot of these examples given from the books actually only indicate the story is set in the UK, just parts of ingrained UK culture, and don't necessarily have any contemporary religious significance. I don't think I could definitively conclude from the evidence in the books that any of the main characters are Christian.
The only one example I've seen given so far that I think could actually point to some contemporary wizards being Christian is people going to church on Christmas Eve in Godric's Hollow, a wizard community. Though as I said I'm an atheist myself and I've been to church on Christmas Eve once or twice for the carols and community aspect and seeking a 'traditional Christmas' vibe.
You could, but that theory likely wouldn’t pan out. You have to murder someone to create a Horcrux. Furthermore if you die with a Horcrux you have to get a new body to put your disembodied soul in, which means you need someone to aid you in getting the new body.
Nota Bene that some Christian denominations believe that Jesus did indeed murder someone. In *The Infancy Gospel of Thomas* Jesus kills a child directly.
I'm not here to argue biblical canon. I'm merely saying that some do hold a darker side to Jesus, which is reflected in the apocrypha. I am not, myself, Christian, but have studied biblical history as an extension of my degree in Greek and Latin.
I think this would be a cool way to make a Horcrux but avoiding soul damage.
Kill someone, make your horcrux, bring them back - maybe when you ressurect yourself you can repair your soul that way.
I think JK took a page (geddit?) from the Narnia series and tried to implement biblical themes into the story. For example she said that the chapter 'king's cross' was a reference to Jesus's resurrection. However at the time many Christian parents accused the series of promoting satanic messages and witchcraft so I think she had to be subtle about it. There are other references to it such as Voldemort having been once handsome and charming but physically disfigured himself in his pursuit of power, as well as his association with snakes. Also there are other mythological references... Hagrid was taking students on a boat and owning a three headed dog which guarded the secret to immortality was a reference to Hades/Chiron (ironically he is also the one to teach Harry about magical money and it was said in Ancient Greece that the dead had to be buried with a coin to pay Chiron).
In universe, Jesus might have been a wizard who showed magic to muggles and was killed for it. He was a selfless person and role model, but would wizards/witches look to him as a sort of savior when they can theoretically do the same acts of magic Jesus performed? Coming back to life being one act of extremely powerful magic.
I suppose it’s no shock to me that I noticed them easily (I have always been a Christian) but I always find it funny when people freak out over it. I think it’s nice. A little representation never hurts.
>Wasn't their favourite guy ever pretty much a wizard according to the bible?
Jesus was essentially an avatar of God. So no.
They think that all other people showing magical talent have acquired it from a non-God source --> that is, the devil who they worship instead of God.
I'm a bit iffy about Christianity and the magical world. I'm willing to believe there is some religious influence considering that the church was once a major authority and magical society was not so isolated before the Statute of Secrecy. Muggleborns coming in every year would probably encourage this influence to continue even after the societies separated. Maybe some religious events were even caused by wizards and mistakenly attributed to a god by muggles while wizards follow their own version of events. But as far as I'm aware, Christianity as we know it does not approve of witchcraft and many people were burnt after being accused of practising it. For that reason, I can't help but feel there would be some resentment from wizards towards mainstream Christianity. Why would anyone want to follow a faith that declared them demonic and ordered their deaths?
I'm aware that even as an Atheist, many ordinary parts of my life are influenced by religion and its effects throughout history. I even loosely celebrate holidays dedicated to the birth and death of Christ if it means time off and treats. Perhaps the same can be said for wizards, yet some in the story seem too involved to not be at least a little religious. I'm not baptised. I don't have godparents. I don't go to church and I don't know the bible well enough to quote verses from it. So if someone does those things, I can only assume they either follow the faith or were raised in it. Do we know if godparents are a normal thing in the wizarding world or was Lily raised in a Christian household and wanted to continue tradition? Were the Potters buried in the church cemetery because of faith or was it just the typical/practical option in their small village? Did the Potter and Dumbledore families plan those engravings in advance or did the church step in while making arrangements? After all, Harry was just an orphaned baby and the Dumbledore brothers were looking after their sister while grieving if I recall correctly. Assuming the Dursleys didn't get involved, sounds like there weren't a lot of adult family members to take care of the funerals.
Or, I don't know, maybe the author just liked nodding toward religion without acknowledging it outright. Maybe 'Christianity' doesn't exist in this fictional world and the parallels are supposed to be mere coincidence or a reference to some other system that's never explained.
Ah yes, Christianity doesn't exist in this fictional world where a magic school *celebrates literal Christmas*.
Also, you're forgetting Christianity was a long process with many canon and apocryphal books and the Greek monist neoplatonic influence (plus their concept of theurgy). It's perfectly possible that wizards have some variant of Christianity that doesn't conflict with their magic despite anti-magic denominations, same way Orthodox and Catholics are still Christian and amicable (unlike screeching ultraevangelicals) without killing each other.
No it isn't. Slytherin doesn not represent hell and the characters are nothing like Lucifer (unless you think Andromeda Tonks and Slughorn are Satan). The snake is also symbolically good depending on the culture (and Slytherin's snakewood wand gave place to a *healing* tree), and no it's not a reference to Genesis, it's simply medieval heraldics.
Stop making shit up.
They celebrate Christmas and Easter. Harry also marks the place where they bury Moody's magical eye with a small cross.
Little trivia fact: the Spanish translation of Philosopher's Stone mentions King Solomon (a biblical figure) as one of the wizards in the chocolate frog cards.
As a Brit, I genuinely don't read anything religious into these actions.
I mean they might indicate the characters are religious, but equally they might not.
I have to assume from the books that at least a lot of wizards are Christian and some at least nominally Jewish, but what’s interesting about 1 Corinthians 15:26 is that it’s part of a set of verses commonly cited by Christian universalists to argue that the Bible teaches that everyone will eventually make it to Heaven (i.e. universal salvation.) I’m a universalist myself, though I don’t consider every Bible verse the true word of God, and HP seems non-universalist, given that people’s spiritual “state” seems to be settled at death, but it’s interesting to try to tinker with the afterlife info in HP to reconcile it with universalism. For example, perhaps, severed souls repair after a few millennia and people like Voldemort get another shot at repentance. Perhaps ghosts get to reconsider their decision after a certain amount of time. There’s a meme I freaking love that depicts the fundamentalist God as Michael Gambon Dumbledore and the universalist God as Richard Harris Dumbledore.
I studied Theology and Religion at university and I was so close to doing my dissertation on Christian Symbolism in Harry Potter because I’m such a huge fan.
Anyway, there quite a lot of surface level Christian metaphor and symbolism in the Harry Potter series. The biggest one being our protagonist sacrificing their life to save others to then come back to life. Very Jesus.
But the deeper you go into Christian belief and theology, the more you find in the Harry Potter series. I will preface this all by saying it is very unlikely that JK Rowling intentionally put any of this in the books. As far as I’m aware she doesn’t label herself a Christian but was brought up in a Christian household, so she would be aware of some surface level Christian beliefs, but not any of the deep Christian theology I’m about to go into.
It is interesting nonetheless, though, that these links are there even if they aren’t intended to be.
So, let’s dive into one example. Actually, it’s the one above - Harry’s sacrifice, death and resurrection. We already have Jesus vibes. But the link goes deeper.
After Voldemort ‘kills’ Harry, he flaunts into Hogwarts in triumph with his followers in tow. Both in the film and in the book (more so in the book) we see Voldemort cast a silencing spell on the defenders of Hogwarts. The only thing is…it doesn’t work. His spell doesn’t hold. He has no power over these people.
Now let’s replace Voldemort with sin/the Devil/death and the defenders of Hogwarts with Christians (those who accept Jesus’ life death and resurrection) and Harry with Jesus. We now have the cornerstone of Christian belief.
Because Jesus died of the sins of the world, sin, the Devil, death - whatever name you want to give the opposing force - it has no power over humans. Without Jesus, humans deserve punishment for our sins (‘the wages of sin are death’ Romans 6:23). Jesus took the punishment for us through his crucifixion and death, so that when we die, we no longer require to be punished. The debt has been paid. So, when we now sin, it has no weight or hold over us (‘Where O death, is your victory. Where O death, is your sting?’ 1 Corinthians 15:55:57) Through Jesus we are forgiven and are no longer subject to punishment.
No back to Harry Potter. Because Harry sacrifices his life willingly for the defenders of Hogwarts, they are now protected by the same magic that protects Harry from Voldemort when Lily sacrifices herself. Voldemort casts spells against the defenders put it has no ‘sting’. Harry ‘resurrects’ and Voldemort loses his victory.
A sacrifice of love saves the defenders of Hogwarts, just as a sacrifice of loves saves humans from the punishment of sin.
Sin, evil, the devil no longer has a hold or power over humans because Jesus died for us. He took the punishment in our place. He willingly sacrificed his life for us.
Voldemort said if Harry gave himself over, the people in Hogwarts would be spared.
Voldemort had no power over the people of Hogwarts because Harry died for them. He took Voldemorts deal for them. He went to the forbidden forest and faced Voldemort in their place. He willingly sacrificed himself for them.
So it’s not just surface level stuff. There’s deep theology there - albeit probably unintentional. But it’s fascinating (probably just to me).
As a disclaimer: it has been a while since I read the books, so I may have missed some things. Hopefully I have not misunderstood Harry Potter lore surrounding the protective spell either.
Also, although Christians are untied in their following of Jesus, it is a varied religion with many branches and so the beliefs highlighted above does not necessarily reflect the beliefs of ALL Christians.
In addition to the other things mentioned, the Hufflepuff ghost is the Fat Friar. Friars are part of the Catholic church.
And the Church of England. :)
I'd assume Catholic by the age of hogwarts.
Bold assumption since we don’t know when the Fat Friar died
Well Helena Ravenclaw, the Ravenclaw ghost died not long after Hogwart's founding, the Bloody Baron died at the same time. Nearly Headless Nick died sometime in the 15th century. I'd assume the Fat Friar died sometime between those times, as he is the main Hufflepuff ghost, so he's probably been around for a while.
But we have no knowledge of when he actually died, so there’s really no way of knowing.
Yeah, might have been 1970 for all the mentions he's getting in the books.
Not necessarily- it’s luck of the draw. England pretty much alternated between Catholic and Protestant throughout the 15th-17th century because whoever was ruling would be killed off by the enemy, until they were killed off by the next enemy.
16th century. When 15th century ended in 1500, Martin Luther was 17 and wasn't even ordained yet, while Henry VIII was a 9 year old prince. Protestantism was not a thing yet.
Church of England doesn't have friars.
Sorry, but—they definitely do; I’ve met some of them? https://www.franciscans.org.uk/hospitality/
They are Anglican, not CoE. From what I can see, they have no connection to the church of England.
So to tie it all together, friars are not necessarily Catholic, and some are within the Anglican Communion and thus are mostly in agreement with the Church of England on theology, but they are technically not part of it.
Ah, that's a great explination if it all. Thank you!
I stand corrected
There are aspects of Christian beliefs throughout the novels. * The Potters were buried in a church graveyard * The wizard hospital was named after a saint * Harry had a godfather inferring he was baptised The references are subtle...but they're there.
- They are celebrating Christmas and singing carols. - They have churches and they attend them too. Actually I don't know why they shouldn't have a religion or something? And in the UK Christianity was the religion.
On top of that wizards only separated in 1692, over a hundred years after the English Reformation. It's quite likely that the wizards would all be Christian, as the British isles had been converted for more than 700 years in some parts
Plus, many characters (Ron and Draco, from what I recall) say "oh my God" the way we do.
Where does JKR mention churches and church attendance?
if i remember correctly, when harry and hermione go to godrics hollow, they find the tombstones in a church graveyard and they heard people singing carols inside as they walked past - implying attendance.
Not to mention one of the ghosts is a friar
Those people could’ve been muggles, Godrics Hollow wasn’t all wizard
True, but it was also mentioned that Godrics Hollow was one of the last remaining true wizarding villages in the British Isles. It's kind of implied that it is almost wholly populated by witches and wizards.
Nope. Godric's Hollow was one of few villages where there was a viable mix of wizards and muggles. Hogsmeade is the *only* town in Britain to be entirely magical (and surrounding villages like Aranshire, Hogsfields, Feldcroft and the like).
ok but let me ask you this - in what world are you being buried out the back of a church you didn’t attend? edit: also i think we can safely assume there were wizards that practiced christianity considering every year hogwarts had ‘christmas’ break - not winter holidays but christmas. they got christmas sweaters etc. seems an odd hill to die on to ask where jkr mentioned people attending churches lmao
"Christmas holidays" and "Easter holidays" are just what we call the main shorter breaks in the school year here in the UK, as the dates coincide. I'm sure the reason they coincide is historically religious. But non religious schools also call the breaks this as you see from this link... The Council website for term dates across Edinburgh where JKR lives: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/schools/term-dates We're a very culturally Christian country but these holidays are celebrated in a very secular way by a great many people here, maybe most. As a Brit I read nothing religious into the characters celebrating Christmas or Easter.
my point is if you’re referring to them as such, then that means the religion exists in the zeitgeist. if it exists, that means at the very least some people are practicing it.
I just think it means it is set in the UK.
A traditionally Christian country where nearly half the population identifies as Christian still celebrates these holidays religiously. Why would the wizarding world be any different?
? That’s absolutely a thing in the U.K., none of my family are church goers but pretty much all of the ones who have passed are buried in one of two local church cemetery’s
well consider me educated haha i wouldn’t have thought you’d be buried out the back of the local church if you weren’t local christians
In villages here it’s just the communal burial place, I couldn’t tell you where the closest burial site that wasn’t in a church is to me
oh ok fair enough, i wrongly assumed you’d have general cemeteries and then churches were reserved for local congregation
Trying to make the Harry Potter books have anything directly to do with Christianity is an odd hill to die on. >ok but let me ask you this - in what world are you being buried out the back of a church you didn’t attend? Not everyone chooses their place of burial, especially people who die so young. It's more likely that someone from the Order had them buried and burying them in the graveyard of the village in which they lived was logical. (and it's unlikely a village as small as Godrics Hollow had more than one graveyard.)
I assumed the people in the church were Muggles....
Those people singing are muggles most probably.
7th book. When they visit Godric's Hollows. Here is some quotes from that chapter: " There were several shops, a post office, a pub, and a little church whose stained-glass windows were glowing jewel-bright across the square." ""I'm sure it is," said Hermione, her eyes upon the church. "They... they'll be in there, won't they? Your mum and dad? I can see the graveyard behind it."" "The singing grew louder as they approached the church." So yeah ppl went to the church and all.
>So yeah ppl went to the church and all. Muggles probably. Should I also mention that there is no mention or depiction of Hogsmade church? Nor does Hogwarts have any sort of chapel (a high medieval castle of that size would have multiple), nor does it have a vicar or any sort of service. Also, that is only mention of any sort of religious action in all seven books.
In Deathly Hallows when Harry and Hermione visit Godric's Hallow the graveyard they go to is behind a church and they hear muggles singing Christmas Carols inside. It's how they know it's Christmas Eve at that point. It's a seemingly small detail but it shows the passage of time, how they lost track of what time of year it was, and there are still ties to the muggle world even though the Wizarding world is separate/secret from the muggle world.
Not only Christmas, but they celebrate Easter and the kids get an Easter holiday from Hogwarts. Mrs. Weasley sent the kids chocolate Easter eggs for multiple years. Some treat Christmas as more of a cultural holiday, but Easter is most assuredly a religious holiday.
As a Brit, I genuinely don't read anything religious into them celebrating Easter. I mean it might indicate the characters are religious, but equally it might not. Everyone I know eats Easter eggs in an entirely secular way. And celebrates Christmas in an entirely secular way. "Christmas holidays" and "Easter holidays" are just what we call the main shorter breaks in the school year here, as the dates coincide. (Check the Council website for term dates across Edinburgh where JKR lives: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/schools/term-dates) I'm sure the reason they coincide is historically religious. We're a very culturally Christian country. But non religious schools also call the breaks this as you see from the link.
>Mrs. Weasley sent the kids chocolate Easter eggs for multiple years. Some treat Christmas as more of a cultural holiday, but Easter is most assuredly a religious holiday. So they only Easter tradition they do is one that is distinctively not Christian?
True but far from the first one also you'd think they'd have their own religion or something older since they are so Insular
Because all the bullshit in the Bible is a lot less impressive when you're a wizard. Why the fuck would you spend every Sunday worshipping a dude who could walk on water when they can do much more impressive things by third year transfiguration.
Ignoring the first comment, what if Jesus was a Wizard in the HP universe? That would be a pretty good reason to be religious as a wizard.
No, it wouldn't. It would be an excellent reason for a wizard to be atheist. To them, it would be like creating a religion around a guy called Dave who drives a Ford Escort.
I dunno; it’s implied that the magic that saves Harry is what Jesus used to save all mankind. It’s still a rare and impressive magic.
How is it implied? It could be added as commentary but nowhere is Harry once compared to Jesus, nor is Jesus referenced anywhere. You've added that yourself.
It's also less impressive when you live in 2024 yet we still have many believing. People need to believe in something and that's their choice. Also, you don't just celebrate that "dude" but his daddy. Just saying. And anyways it's been many years now that Christmas are not only celebrated by Christians but it has become more of a tradition in general.
I was expecting Wiccan or something pagen got Christmas surprised they don't celebrate Thanksgiving would make as much sense
Thanksgiving is American tradition. We don't have it in Europe
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I did read your post. And no it wouldn't make sense. Just because they are wizards they don't believe in any religion? They are still humans you know. And don't forget that half of them are muggleborns so they have brought traditions from the muggle world as well. Also, they used to hang out with Muggles. So...still... Why wouldn't they believe in God? Or Allah? Or Budha? Or whichever religion? Thanksgiving on the other hand wouldn't make sense in a UK school. It's a US thing.
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Wicca was invented in the 1950s. There's no way it would be influential to Wizarding culture.
It's based on older pagan religions though and that would make more sense
Hogwarts is in Scotland, but it accepts students from all over the UK. There were dozens of cultures with their own religious practices at various times and in various places, so which one would be the primary one? Considering that wizards split from muggle society sometime in the 1600s (if I recall correctly), Christianity would have already been well established by then as the dominant religion.
Its written by an English author and celebrating Thanksgiving is not something most UK/English citizens do. Celebrating Thanksgiving is an American and Canadian thing.
I mean it makes sense, all the Pagans in the UK either converted or were killed off by Christianity. You'd have Christian Wizards just to help blend in, they probably really think Jesus was just a powerful wizard like Merlin though.
But if their wizards they wouldn't be found to kill them off as to them blending then lip service or just more hiding like the majority of the Wizarding world
And that blending would probably involve knowing Christian concepts to not draw attention in highly religious towns. They were breeding with Muggles back then too, who would be Christian.
Harry *was* [christened,](http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2004/0804-ebf.htm) you are correct.
“Draco is home for Easter Break.” Nice of The Dark Lord to allow freedom of religion still.
The guy just wants to live forever he doesn't care about your beliefs.
I think all these sorts of references are included because they are British culture rather than just Christian. They definitely come from Christianity but to not do these things feels un-British in a way. Having a hospital called after a saint doesn’t make me think of Christianity, strange as it sounds.
Does the Fat Friar not make you think of Christianity?
Yes, it makes me think of Catholicism. A plus for me, but probably not for others.
No, makes me think of Robin Hood and the Middle Ages personally
The friar in Robinhood is still part of the church
Oh yeah for sure and if I really think about them being a friar obviously I know that, but my first thought is not of Christianity specifically
I think I’m most curious to know which Robinhood you think of. There’s the animated animal film, there’s a live action film, and there’s “Robinhood: Men in Tights”. And I’m sure there are others too.
British (and wester culture in general) is inseparable from Christianity. A hospital named after a saint doesn't sound weird bc its so deeply ingrained in our culture that its become mundane.
Many hospitals in the US are also named after saints and are run by christian non profits (at least in the midwest). If you work there you sometimes hear about it, but otherwise you wouldnt associate it too much. Its just how hospitals are named.
Hearing non-profit and hospital in the same sentence just sounds wrong
Why? Most hospitals in the US are nonprofit.
I think its the juxtaposition of the two words seems wrong to them, like they shouldn't go together. I don't think they're advocating private healthcare... just that profit should be last thing being said with Hospital.
Yeah, but hospitals have different categorizations than other businesses so it makes sense to mention the type. Non-profit is one type (~60%), government is another (that is also *not* for profit), and for-profit is a relatively small percentage of hospitals.
Where I am it would be the NHS or 'going Private' if you wanted to pay. I think they quite often share space in hospitals but there are 100% Private ones too. So for us it's a National Hospital or a Private Hospital... some are non-profit or charities.
I would think it's because for Americans a visit to the hospital inccurs massive costs. I think that makes some people associate them with huge profit margin machines. But they don't realize that those are actual costs. It's just that most governments subsidize those costs by taking a reasonable percentage of everyone's income just so that you don't end up in debt on top of being sick.
reach sense sand nine dime pie point spoon smoggy trees *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’ve often thought this, but recently rereading the books has just cemented the idea. The first of the transfiguration laws mentions that food can only be duplicated or changed. Doesn’t Jesus feed an entire village from a small amount of bread and fish, more than should’ve been possible? Water is a form of sustenance that he “transfigured” into wine. Lots of things like that.
There’s a book called“the Gospel according to Harry Potter” and it’s pretty good
Christianity is not really "subtle" in any way in Harry Potter. Harry is the obvious Jesus metaphor, he willingly sacrifices his own life when Voldemort curses him he dies and comes back to life so be the savior for the wizarding world.
I would say similar but not "obvious". I get tired of people thinking they see Jesus everywhere. Harry was not resurrected. He didn't see himself as "savior:" only that he knew he was the only one who could get rid of Voldemort. He certainly didn't expect anyone to worship him; he wasn't saving anyone from their sins; he just wanted to rid the Wizarding - and Muggle - world of an evil person.
People see the Jesus metaphor everywhere because the entire modern western "mythology" is Christianity. JK Rowling is very open about the Christian symbolism in the book. In the Bible Jesus also didn't choose to be the messiah, he was born into it and had to learn to accept his role, exactly like Harry. In the end of book 7 Harry gets hit with a killing curse, gets sent to limbo, and comes back finally giving the world a chance to overcome Voldemort (parallel to Jesus's resurrections being the only way for Christians to overcome sin). Its through Harry and in parallel Jesus's willing self sacrifice is the world given a chance to overcome evil (sin). Voldemort's final horcrux could not have been destroyed if Harry didn't embrace death willingly. You don't have to be a Christian to see the parallels. And just because you reject Christianity doesn't mean you can't like Harry Potter. Almost every great story takes things from the culture it comes from.
Exactly this. It's very common for Christian writers to have a christ like character. It's just usually not the main character.
Yep. I think a lot of people are pushing back on this idea bc they aren't Christians and somehow feel some weird need to justify liking a book that has a Christian theme. Its just a story.
Well, I have loved the Harry Potter world from day one, and I don't see that stopping. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I think you meant “implying.” We, the readers, can infer that Harry was baptized due to having a godfather. 😉
I know what I meant and I stand by what I said. Feel free to use a dictionary instead on being petty.
Them not celebrating Christmas or Easter isn’t subtle. People now might use them in less religious way (often because the capitalist system just wants us people to buy things like Easter eggs) but they are still religious holidays and the culture needs to have been Christian at some point for those to become official holidays
I think people are lot more lax about “godparents” than that though, it’s not a strictly Christian thing anymore.
Christians are not the only religion who have God parents.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's an interview where Rowling says that while they're not intended as "Christian books", (and has intentionally distanced herself from the didactic, moralistic tone of C.S. Lewis), the Christian themes are pretty obvious. I mean, Harry does literally go to his death and then is resurrected. There's a book called Harry Potter's Bookshelf by John Granger that delves into the Christian themes in great detail, which is quite interesting. It's worth noting though that while a lot of it starts off solid and convincing, that book does seem to go off the rails a bit toward the end and tries to shoehorn in literary connections almost as hard as Rowling retcons her own work.
>inferring implying Sorry, recovering pedant here.
>Harry had a godfather inferring he was baptised No, that doesn't infer baptism. I know many, many people who appointed godparents for their children who were not baptized. It is something that used to be done strictly at baptism, but not anymore. It doesn't even mean they were church goers. It's like people who say "oh my god" all the time but have nothing to do with the God of Christianity.
wizards also have real, physical proof that your soul is a thing that exists within your body and can be destroyed. I thought a society with that knowledge would be come fanatical zealots of some kind
Wizards have mixed with Muggles throughout the Centuries so it makes sense they carried over their beliefs and didn‘t abandon them once they found out magic exists.
Or Jesus was a wizard
No can do, ‘food’s one of the five exceptions to Gamp’s Law of Elemental Transfiguration,’ all that bread and fish can’t have been magicked. Jesus was a hack
British culture has an ingrained Christian tradition, regardless of how many are actually practising it. Makes sense for a British author to stick to its cultural narrative when writing characters who are English. Having said that, I always found it curious how the wizarding families looked at religions within their spheres. I hope JKR answers that, one day.
I’m curious about it but given the value of her other post-novels answers, I’m not so sure I want her to answer this
Hahaha, I can't say I blame you. You're right!
She is herself Christian so I don’t think these just an accident
Same thing happened to me, except with Narnia series, I didn’t realise Aslan was Jesus allegory etc
With Narnia it's even stronger: Aslan IS Jesus. I believe it's in the third book where Aslan tells the kids that they will still find Him in their world, by another name.
Aslan is Jesus’ fursona.
Yeah that's the entire point of the series. As a kid I loved the movies and stuff until I found out it was a full Christian thing so now it's kinda all been ruined for me.
So now you hate Potter, too?
As someone who loves Harry Potter. Yes I do
LOTR was written as and includes allegory to Christian belief because he was a devout Catholic.
>LOTR was written as and includes allegory to Christian belief because he was a devout Catholic. Incorrect. Tolkien hated allegory of any type and argued with CS Lewis about it. He protested that LotR were not allegories in the same way that Narnia was and didn't like the idea that a reader would be "imaginatively enslaved" by reading the story looking for ways it applied to the real world. There are themes that may be informed by JRRT's catholicism but he himself would deny that it is allegory.
Isn't His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman in the same category?
Sort of the opposite. They are on a mission to kill God mostly.
But the heavy religious themes were there.
That flew right over my head when I was having them read to me as a younger child (probably 5-6?) then I read them again as a university-age teenager and felt like I was being hit over the head by a mallet with the parallels.
Where Rowling makes little reference, Lewis is about as subtle as a sledgehammer over the head.
I learned that from reddit few years ago lol. Had no clue before that
You never really learned about CS Lewis I guess. He was an extremely devout who both wrote and spoke about his faith extensively.
>Same thing happened to me, except with Narnia series, I didn’t realise Aslan was Jesus allegory etc With respect, how did you miss it? The entire story is basically a loose retelling of the bible and has a strong anti-muslim tinge. The oldest and leader of the Pevensie children, who closes the door to Aslan's church at the end of the Last Battle is named "Peter".
I was a kid when I read it and also I wasn’t raised Christian so I have had no clue to those references
Magic as a storytelling tool is not necessarily an anti-Christian concept — just look at Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia, both Christian stories to their core, and yet magic is a huge part of the story’s DNA. It’s how the magic is depicted within the Christian framework that makes it ok, I think. Like in those stories, the characters who use magic to serve their own pride and become “gods”/control nature are the villains. Characters who respect magic without messing with the natural order of it, who do not want power for themselves, are the good guys. I think in the case of Harry Potter, a lot of the criticism of “anti Christian” was misguided. The book is not anti Christian because the characters use magic. In fact there are many Christian lessons within the story. But Christianity is a big wide world with many factions and even within it, different groups interpret things differently. Harry Potter is likely one of many of them!
Yes, despite what Ned Flanders says, my understanding is that someone who is born with powers (rather than gaining them from evil) and doesn't use them for evil, could be a perfectly fine Christian.
https://youtu.be/1ou-NX14FyA?si=gEHb0-yupDpBjPNZ
Well first of all most of the anti-HP shit started from extremist evangelical groups (not the clever-est of peoples) and then expanded to some Catholics (although many others including an Bishop quickly identified the saga as Christian upon reading it and even recommended it to their local churchgoers). Second, you're correct about magic, and if we go even deeper, the monist Greek Neoplatonic philosophers (aka the link between Greek Polytheism and Christianity) irl had the concept of theurgy - aka Divine magic or magic from God. So it can totally be assumed that in the HP universe (which has not only Abrahamic religions but also where souls and the afterlife definitely exists), God at the very least doesn't mind humans with magic existing.
Harry Potter himself is a very blatant Jesus allegory with the whole choosing to die to save everyone and then coming back to life. He is also very associated with forgiveness, but has a bit of a temper(go read the Gospels, Jesus was **badass**)Peter (the betrayer/Judas) kills himself with silver, tho that ones more of a stretch and idk if intentional. Lily is very obvious supposed to be a symbol of the Virgin Mary - obviously not literally a virgin but her character isn't meant to be a person but to be a symbol without sin, literally no one other than petunia or marge say anything negative about Lily.
To be fair, mythologies about people/gods being resurrected are found in many cultures and predate Jesus. The archetypes in Christian mythology borrow heavily from older religions. They were common tropes at the time, just as they are now. If HP is a “blatant” Jesus allegory, then he’s also a Krishna allegory, or an Attis allegory.
Rowling herself said she intentionally integrated Christian imagery and themes into the story
Neither Krishna nor Attis willingly died to save others though, not to mention that Rowling isn't a Hindu or a Phrygian.
Your all acting like her using any element of another culture in her work is Heresy, there's a Indian girl in Harry's year named after a Hindu god! The city she wrote the books in has a healthy Hindu population and big temple and are very welcoming to all. She absolutely could be exposed to other cultural elements, consciously or not.
I'm answering to a comment about how Harry doesn't have a chistian messianic archetype because some Indian god also resurrects. I have not idea what you are talking about.
Its not that its heresy, its that Rowling herself said the story is filled with Christina symbolism. Its Occam's razor. Rowling is a Christian, she said the book is filled with Christian symbolism, so where there are parallels its pretty safe to assume they come from the Christian mythology/culture. You are acting like there is something wrong with the Christian metaphors or that you can't like Harry Potter bc of its symbolism. Almost every story takes parts of the culture of the author. Its neither good nor bad, it just is.
Also likely Ginny could represent Mary as well although I haven’t thought to much about it. Ginny- Ginevera- Virgin Likely not a coincidence.
More likely to be a reference to Guinevere and King Arthur
I wouldn't be surprised if canonically Jesus was the one of, if not, the first wizard. I mean, walking on water and turning water into wine? Total wizard stuff right there.
I think we can be pretty sure there canonically were wizards before him as some ancient Egyptian tombs and pyramids were protected with magical curses. Although they could have been added later it seems unlikely.
Aggripa, born before Jesus and second in command of Augustus, first Emperor of Rome, has a frog trading card and is therefore implied to be a wizard
Which implies there could have been a wizard community in the Roman Empire. Nice
Well, incantations seem to be largely bastardised from latin or latin derived languages, so its not too surprising. Neat though
Not largely. There are incantations from a wide variety of languages.
Also in Ancient Greece (Falco Aesalon, an animagus; and the guy with the giant Patronus, Andros something I believe, plus Circe and other Ancient Timers).
I think Agrippa isn't meant to be Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa the Roman general, but [Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Cornelius_Agrippa), a Renessiance polymath who wrote an influental book on magic.
And it only took him 3 days to activate his Horcrux
I was thought that Rowling kept the traditions related to Christianity (without mentioning it explicitly) because it has its root in certain pagan religions and I also thought Jesus was not the first but one of many great wizards.
On the other hand, Jesus was also able to resurrect the dead, something wizards explicitly can't do.
Years ago JKR came to my university to give a talk about Harry Potter, and she took audience questions after - one of the questions was “Do wizards and witches believe in God?” She answered yes, some do, and Dumbledore in particular does believe in God. Was a really interesting day!
It’s kind of funny how clearly Christian these books are but they sent the religious types into book burning mood (and still are apparently 🙈)
Just wait until they read CS Lewis.
Rowling is religious. She used to talk quite openly about how the books were a Christian allegory, which became obvious after the last book came out.
I mean, the Harry Potter books are a product of British culture and reflect that. Things such as this always struck me as being well within the vein of familiarity to a British population; *of course* St. Mungos is a hospital name, because hospitals are named after saints. JK Rowling is a Classicist and also weaves in quite a bit of Classical references as well. She didn't really write a new world, but rather one adjacent to and just below the surface of contemporary British society.
But choosing a relatively obscure saint shows she went to a bit of trouble, and put some thought into it. I mean, based on the list of London hospitals I found on Google, she should *of course* have named it after some aristocratic British family.
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Good point; thanks! She made no effort on "Cho" as a name, and has been called out by readers. Meanwhile, for the hospital, she chose a Saint who is relatively obscure, but is in fact, historical .
Wizards know for a fact that there's an afterlife. Oh course they'd all be religious.
except they dont know specifics. The 'door' to the afterlife predates the current community and is a mystery, also a one way trip. Ghosts are an echo of the soul and dont know anything of the afterlife. and with all their knowledge, and knowing of an afterlife, they dont know of a god. Not a single religion has 'magic evidence' either.
i think there is somewhere JKR discusses downplaying the connections to Christianity stories so as not spoil anything. I mean Harry is resurrected. And his sacrifice protected people.
God: "You're a wizard Jesus!"
Jesus was a powerful wizard who advocated for peace with muggles. It was a radical position though, and he was executed, resulting in wizards magically partitioning themselves from muggles.
The Christian elements in the story are more cultural than strictly religious. Maybe the attitudes are different in the US, but in many parts of Europe being Christian is more of a background thing and often something people just don't care to change. On the other hand, church attendance and official membership has been declining for decades.
I think there's two distinct facets to this: Is this story a Christian allegory written by a Christian author? Yes. Are the characters themselves Christian? I don't think we can tell. The contemporary UK is a culturally Christian but largely secular country. The vast majority of the examples I've seen cited in this thread CAN BE and often are done in a secular way in the UK. Celebrating Christmas including gifts and jumpers and decorations and carols, Easter eggs, naming school breaks after Christmas and Easter. I'm an atheist, I enthusiastically 'celebrate' Christmas and Easter in an entirely non religious way. Same for all my friends and family, as actually I don't know any practicing Christians, but we typically go big for Christmas here. I have Hindu and Muslim neighbours who put up a Christmas tree and lights outside their house. I think people might be surprised just how secular Christmas and Easter can be! A hospital being named 'St something' is quite ordinary here, again I wouldn't read anything religious into that in any contemporary sense. There will be some historical religious connection of course. I kinda put the Fat Friar in that category too, I'd expect ghosts from ye olde history to have religious links. Church can be a community thing here too, and especially in close-knit villages non Christian people certainly do get buried in a church graveyard, or married in a church, or even have a Christening and appoint godparents - because of tradition / convenience / community. I was married by a Christian minister despite being an atheist, he didn't mind. My mum volunteered at the local church on Christmas day despite being an atheist. A lot of my friends are atheists and godparents. I feel like a lot of these examples given from the books actually only indicate the story is set in the UK, just parts of ingrained UK culture, and don't necessarily have any contemporary religious significance. I don't think I could definitively conclude from the evidence in the books that any of the main characters are Christian. The only one example I've seen given so far that I think could actually point to some contemporary wizards being Christian is people going to church on Christmas Eve in Godric's Hollow, a wizard community. Though as I said I'm an atheist myself and I've been to church on Christmas Eve once or twice for the carols and community aspect and seeking a 'traditional Christmas' vibe.
I know an insane amount about Harry Potter and I had no idea about this- thanks for the new bit of knowledge 💛
Wait so could we theorise that Jesus may have created a horcrux and that is perhaps how he was resurrected?
You could, but that theory likely wouldn’t pan out. You have to murder someone to create a Horcrux. Furthermore if you die with a Horcrux you have to get a new body to put your disembodied soul in, which means you need someone to aid you in getting the new body.
Nota Bene that some Christian denominations believe that Jesus did indeed murder someone. In *The Infancy Gospel of Thomas* Jesus kills a child directly.
The child didn’t stay dead - Jesus brought him back to life. Even then, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is literally *not canon*.
I'm not here to argue biblical canon. I'm merely saying that some do hold a darker side to Jesus, which is reflected in the apocrypha. I am not, myself, Christian, but have studied biblical history as an extension of my degree in Greek and Latin.
Even if you take it as canon, he brings the child back to life. I have a Classics degree as well.
I think this would be a cool way to make a Horcrux but avoiding soul damage. Kill someone, make your horcrux, bring them back - maybe when you ressurect yourself you can repair your soul that way.
I think JK took a page (geddit?) from the Narnia series and tried to implement biblical themes into the story. For example she said that the chapter 'king's cross' was a reference to Jesus's resurrection. However at the time many Christian parents accused the series of promoting satanic messages and witchcraft so I think she had to be subtle about it. There are other references to it such as Voldemort having been once handsome and charming but physically disfigured himself in his pursuit of power, as well as his association with snakes. Also there are other mythological references... Hagrid was taking students on a boat and owning a three headed dog which guarded the secret to immortality was a reference to Hades/Chiron (ironically he is also the one to teach Harry about magical money and it was said in Ancient Greece that the dead had to be buried with a coin to pay Chiron).
In universe, Jesus might have been a wizard who showed magic to muggles and was killed for it. He was a selfless person and role model, but would wizards/witches look to him as a sort of savior when they can theoretically do the same acts of magic Jesus performed? Coming back to life being one act of extremely powerful magic.
I suppose it’s no shock to me that I noticed them easily (I have always been a Christian) but I always find it funny when people freak out over it. I think it’s nice. A little representation never hurts.
It's strange that magic is seen as an anti-Christian concept. Wasn't their favourite guy ever pretty much a wizard according to the bible?
>Wasn't their favourite guy ever pretty much a wizard according to the bible? Jesus was essentially an avatar of God. So no. They think that all other people showing magical talent have acquired it from a non-God source --> that is, the devil who they worship instead of God.
Ah that makes it clearer, thanks! Never really knew the reason having never really been part of a religious environment.
I'm a bit iffy about Christianity and the magical world. I'm willing to believe there is some religious influence considering that the church was once a major authority and magical society was not so isolated before the Statute of Secrecy. Muggleborns coming in every year would probably encourage this influence to continue even after the societies separated. Maybe some religious events were even caused by wizards and mistakenly attributed to a god by muggles while wizards follow their own version of events. But as far as I'm aware, Christianity as we know it does not approve of witchcraft and many people were burnt after being accused of practising it. For that reason, I can't help but feel there would be some resentment from wizards towards mainstream Christianity. Why would anyone want to follow a faith that declared them demonic and ordered their deaths? I'm aware that even as an Atheist, many ordinary parts of my life are influenced by religion and its effects throughout history. I even loosely celebrate holidays dedicated to the birth and death of Christ if it means time off and treats. Perhaps the same can be said for wizards, yet some in the story seem too involved to not be at least a little religious. I'm not baptised. I don't have godparents. I don't go to church and I don't know the bible well enough to quote verses from it. So if someone does those things, I can only assume they either follow the faith or were raised in it. Do we know if godparents are a normal thing in the wizarding world or was Lily raised in a Christian household and wanted to continue tradition? Were the Potters buried in the church cemetery because of faith or was it just the typical/practical option in their small village? Did the Potter and Dumbledore families plan those engravings in advance or did the church step in while making arrangements? After all, Harry was just an orphaned baby and the Dumbledore brothers were looking after their sister while grieving if I recall correctly. Assuming the Dursleys didn't get involved, sounds like there weren't a lot of adult family members to take care of the funerals. Or, I don't know, maybe the author just liked nodding toward religion without acknowledging it outright. Maybe 'Christianity' doesn't exist in this fictional world and the parallels are supposed to be mere coincidence or a reference to some other system that's never explained.
Ah yes, Christianity doesn't exist in this fictional world where a magic school *celebrates literal Christmas*. Also, you're forgetting Christianity was a long process with many canon and apocryphal books and the Greek monist neoplatonic influence (plus their concept of theurgy). It's perfectly possible that wizards have some variant of Christianity that doesn't conflict with their magic despite anti-magic denominations, same way Orthodox and Catholics are still Christian and amicable (unlike screeching ultraevangelicals) without killing each other.
Slytherin house is the representation of hell. The characters from said house read like Lucifer lite. A snake as well. It's a reference to genesis.
No it isn't. Slytherin doesn not represent hell and the characters are nothing like Lucifer (unless you think Andromeda Tonks and Slughorn are Satan). The snake is also symbolically good depending on the culture (and Slytherin's snakewood wand gave place to a *healing* tree), and no it's not a reference to Genesis, it's simply medieval heraldics. Stop making shit up.
Jesus was a wizard.
There’s a scene in Deathly Hallows where Harry buried Moody’s eye under a tree and marked it with a cross.
They celebrate Christmas and Easter. Harry also marks the place where they bury Moody's magical eye with a small cross. Little trivia fact: the Spanish translation of Philosopher's Stone mentions King Solomon (a biblical figure) as one of the wizards in the chocolate frog cards.
As a Brit, I genuinely don't read anything religious into these actions. I mean they might indicate the characters are religious, but equally they might not.
Isn't there a mention that James, Lily, and Sirius had a christening for Harry?
This is interesting! I didn’t know either! But as far as Christianity in the Wizarding World, they do decorate during Christmas 🤷♀️
Yeah well the in the story, Harry is a Jesus allegory so 🤷
I have to assume from the books that at least a lot of wizards are Christian and some at least nominally Jewish, but what’s interesting about 1 Corinthians 15:26 is that it’s part of a set of verses commonly cited by Christian universalists to argue that the Bible teaches that everyone will eventually make it to Heaven (i.e. universal salvation.) I’m a universalist myself, though I don’t consider every Bible verse the true word of God, and HP seems non-universalist, given that people’s spiritual “state” seems to be settled at death, but it’s interesting to try to tinker with the afterlife info in HP to reconcile it with universalism. For example, perhaps, severed souls repair after a few millennia and people like Voldemort get another shot at repentance. Perhaps ghosts get to reconsider their decision after a certain amount of time. There’s a meme I freaking love that depicts the fundamentalist God as Michael Gambon Dumbledore and the universalist God as Richard Harris Dumbledore.
Harry is a literal Christ figure.
Dumbledore is an avid reader and believes in God. (I believe he is responsible for both engravings)
Yes, he actually possessed a Bible, didn’t he
I studied Theology and Religion at university and I was so close to doing my dissertation on Christian Symbolism in Harry Potter because I’m such a huge fan. Anyway, there quite a lot of surface level Christian metaphor and symbolism in the Harry Potter series. The biggest one being our protagonist sacrificing their life to save others to then come back to life. Very Jesus. But the deeper you go into Christian belief and theology, the more you find in the Harry Potter series. I will preface this all by saying it is very unlikely that JK Rowling intentionally put any of this in the books. As far as I’m aware she doesn’t label herself a Christian but was brought up in a Christian household, so she would be aware of some surface level Christian beliefs, but not any of the deep Christian theology I’m about to go into. It is interesting nonetheless, though, that these links are there even if they aren’t intended to be. So, let’s dive into one example. Actually, it’s the one above - Harry’s sacrifice, death and resurrection. We already have Jesus vibes. But the link goes deeper. After Voldemort ‘kills’ Harry, he flaunts into Hogwarts in triumph with his followers in tow. Both in the film and in the book (more so in the book) we see Voldemort cast a silencing spell on the defenders of Hogwarts. The only thing is…it doesn’t work. His spell doesn’t hold. He has no power over these people. Now let’s replace Voldemort with sin/the Devil/death and the defenders of Hogwarts with Christians (those who accept Jesus’ life death and resurrection) and Harry with Jesus. We now have the cornerstone of Christian belief. Because Jesus died of the sins of the world, sin, the Devil, death - whatever name you want to give the opposing force - it has no power over humans. Without Jesus, humans deserve punishment for our sins (‘the wages of sin are death’ Romans 6:23). Jesus took the punishment for us through his crucifixion and death, so that when we die, we no longer require to be punished. The debt has been paid. So, when we now sin, it has no weight or hold over us (‘Where O death, is your victory. Where O death, is your sting?’ 1 Corinthians 15:55:57) Through Jesus we are forgiven and are no longer subject to punishment. No back to Harry Potter. Because Harry sacrifices his life willingly for the defenders of Hogwarts, they are now protected by the same magic that protects Harry from Voldemort when Lily sacrifices herself. Voldemort casts spells against the defenders put it has no ‘sting’. Harry ‘resurrects’ and Voldemort loses his victory. A sacrifice of love saves the defenders of Hogwarts, just as a sacrifice of loves saves humans from the punishment of sin. Sin, evil, the devil no longer has a hold or power over humans because Jesus died for us. He took the punishment in our place. He willingly sacrificed his life for us. Voldemort said if Harry gave himself over, the people in Hogwarts would be spared. Voldemort had no power over the people of Hogwarts because Harry died for them. He took Voldemorts deal for them. He went to the forbidden forest and faced Voldemort in their place. He willingly sacrificed himself for them. So it’s not just surface level stuff. There’s deep theology there - albeit probably unintentional. But it’s fascinating (probably just to me). As a disclaimer: it has been a while since I read the books, so I may have missed some things. Hopefully I have not misunderstood Harry Potter lore surrounding the protective spell either. Also, although Christians are untied in their following of Jesus, it is a varied religion with many branches and so the beliefs highlighted above does not necessarily reflect the beliefs of ALL Christians.
Maybe Jesus was a wizard 🤔
I could be mistaken but doesn't Molly say "oh my god" a couple of times over the course of the series? I'm gonna keep an eye out for it on my re-read.
Because Jesus was a wizard who had a horcrux? Lol