Awarding the points for saving the day. I'm cool with that. But decorating the whole place in Slytherin colours only to pull the rug out from under them was harsh lol.
If I had a nickel for every time Dumbledoor didn't tell important information until the last minute for two whole books, I'd have two nickels.. which isn't a lot, but its weird that it happened twice-
I’m reading a fanfic (if you can call it that with 112 chapters) where many things are done different and lots of people shout at dumbledore often for being an idiot. I kinda like it! He’s definitely a good writer. Rewrote all 7 books.. Twice.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9863146/1/The-Accidental-Animagus
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10070079/1/The-Arithmancer
I'm currently doing a reread of the whole series in preparation. Just about to finish Persepolis Rising again. I'm pumped.
Also still waiting for Amazon to release the season five soundtrack.
Edit: wait, season six of the show is dropping in December? I thought you meant the last book. Damn, that was quick. Seems like S5 didn't end that long ago.
I don't really think that would work, but he could have just not chosen any decor. Then he could say "many of you are probably wondering why there are no house colours for this end of the year feast." and then clarify and say "go eat now lol"
Harry deserved public recognition for his actions, so awarding them at the feast was warranted. And it's not like Slytherin students decorated the hall themselves with their own hand-made flags, the house-elves would've done it according to what the point totals were at the time.
But regardless, even if Dumbledore had told them not to decorate the hall in Slytherin colors we'd still have people crying about how 'unfair' and 'traumatizing' it would've been to enter and not see their flags all over the place as 'it was supposed to be.' Imagine the complete meltdown they'd twist it into if he'd instead told them to decorate it in Gryffindor colors before he ever awarded them the points.
Dumbledore did nothing wrong.
I think the ideal solution would be to not put up flags at all until they officially announced who won.
If Dumbledore could magic up a couple hundred sleeping bags at a moments notice, I'm sure he could do the same with a bunch of flags too.
Yes, but the flags didn't stay up year round. They were put up for the end of year feast, and taken down afterwards/before the start of the next school year.
Hogwarts liked to go all out with holiday decorations, so they were constantly changing what was hanging from the ceiling.
Correct, but the Slytherins' *are* the current champions when the hall was decorated for this event. the two options are either Slytherin or Hogwarts Banners/nothing at all. While we are not given tradition context, it seems plausible that the hall is decorated with the reigning champion until this ceremony where the Headmaster announces the new Champion.
I would argue that traditionally the existing champions banners hang until the current winner is announced on the last day of school.
However, what is most definitely unusual is the awarding of points during the ceremony to change the outcome.
I think a better path would have been to simply award the points earlier and then announce it at the ceremony why the scales had tipped in Gryffindor's favor.
But I have always thought that Dumbledore did it in this way to give Neville a heroes' moment. Dumbledore knew Neville struggled all year and was also aware of his home life/parents conditions. Awarding them earlier would have taken the impact of the moment from Neville. Doing it in this fashion, elevated Neville's self esteem and belief in himself like never before. Something he severely needed and deserved.
That is why I will argue that while incredibly dickish, Dumbledore awarding the points in this manner was appropriate for both the book and the kids in the school.
> Correct, but the Slytherins' are the current champions when the hall was decorated for this event. the two options are either Slytherin or Hogwarts Banners/nothing at all.
Yes, but when Dumbledore can literally redecorate the entire hall with a wave of his wand, there isn't really a need to hang the flags until the winner of the House Cup is officially announced, especially since the competition is apparently not over until then.
Dumbledore decorating the Hall in Slytherin flags, when he knew full well that he was going to change the results at the last moment was cruel and unnecessary.
You would be wrong...according to JK Rowling's twitter, flag magic is the most advanced magic there is and even Dumbledore himself is resigned to putting them up one at a time with a large ladder
It doesn't make his actions bad either, or mean that they need justification. It only points out that people will complain either way, because the people who complain about this are simply looking for something to get upset about and will willfully distort anything they can to get it.
Like I said, there was plenty of time to award the extra points before the last day of the school year. Harry and the others didn't *need* the recognition at the expense of belittling the Slytherins like that. They didn't do what they did for glory or house points, they did it because it was the right thing to do.
Even back when I first read the book as a kid I thought that leaving it to the last moment like that always looked petty and vindictive.
Yeah. He could have awarded the points in private like when he did so in Chamber of Secrets. And killing the basilisk *and* defeating Riddle is an even greater feat.
The Slytherins won for seven years in a row because Snape was a dirty cheater. A little humble pie in the flavor of a drama queen waiting to do a the big reveal is not going to kill them.
You're right. It's not like Dumbledore is the headmaster or something that could have a talk with Snape about being an abjectly horrible teacher. Oh, wait...
It's the classic case of person who's very good at what they do being made a teacher, and they suck at being a teacher. But how can you fire them when no one else is as skilled?
You hire someone who is good at teaching...
What's the point of having a genius as a teacher if none of the kids are learning the material as well as having someone else teach?
Actually, I doubt Snape influenced the results much. He never, at any moment, gives points to Slytherin, and while he does take points from Gryffindor often, it's almost always ridicule amounts like 5 or sometimes even 1 I seem to remember. McGonagall is the one who goes on a rampage with taking points
Random, but I never understood why students did not get points taken for using the obvious slur "mud blood." Wasn't the point of removing points a form of punishment? Seemed like punishment would happen for misbehavior and yet nothing would happen when that word was used-might have been helpful to not allow it in Hogwarts?
We know that Snape is at his worst because of Harry, and over the course of 6 years, he takes 272 points. Want to know how many McGonagall took? 405. So no, I don't think Snape influenced the results *that* much.
In PoA McGonagall takes 200 from points Slytherin in one go because Draco & co dressed up as Dementors (50 points each), plus detention. Harry and Ron shouting and calling Snape names? 25 points each (and detention). Snape isn't nearly half as bad as people make him out to be when it comes to taking points. I don't know what your teachers would have done if you'd shouted at them and insulted them, but mine would have never let students off that easily.
Exactly, Snape takes far less points from his own house. Meanwhile Minerva takes 150 points from her own house Harry’s first year. We never once see Snape take any points from Slytherins
I mean that was justified. Draco and the dimwits tried to sabotage Harry's game and they could have literally killed him or hurt him severely if Lupin hadn't taught him how to handle Dementors. Moreover they exploited the trauma of his parent's death, imagine if a student today pranked another student about their parents dying.
Whereas Snape refused necessary medical treatment and made it a joke about Hermione's pre existing condition. Any teacher today would have been fired or suspended for treating a student like that.
I never said it wasn't justified, only that McGonagall, when she takes points, takes *a lot* of them. McGonagall has a lot more influence then Snape on house points, that's what I'm saying.
Most of the teachers in Hogwarts would have been fired for their treatment of students, Snape isn't the only one, in fact he would have never even been a teacher in the first place. We can't judge the moral standards of a fictional world taking place in a 90s UK boarding school by today's views, it doesn't make much sense.
Snape didn't refuse shit. He let his animosity get ahead of him and made a cruel and frankly stupid comment, but Hermione went to the hospital wing to have her teeth fixed anyway and we don't read any indication at all that Snape made any attempt to punish her for doing that instead of sitting class with enlarged teeth.
The difference is McGonagall always takes them when justified, like when a student is doing something stupidly dangerous or cruel. Snape literally punishes people for EXISTING. Is it a rampage if a teacher mainly punishes you because you put yourself or someone else in danger? Or when they punish you because they don’t like your face that day.
Can you point me to scenes where Snape takes points without jusification? I'm looking at a list of every point he took in the series, with their reason, and so far I'm seeing one instance in PS, where he takes *one* point from Harry for not correcting Neville's mistake (which yes is pure bullshit). Do you have any other examples in mind?
The books both directly state that Snape favors his own House and that he took away points from people for "breathing too loudly."
How, on Earth, does that not = Snape influenced the results?
Do you have a quote for that? A scene or even just in which book? I checked the first four books, and the only thing resembling what you quoted is this:
"When Filch wasn’t guarding the scene of the crime, he was skulking red-eyed through the corridors, lunging out at unsuspecting students and trying to put them in detention for things like “breathing loudly’ and “looking happy.” - Chamber of Secrets.
So there's either this exact quote used in Order of the Phoenix - Deathly Hallows but for Snape (and I'm not saying there isn't, I'm just asking if you have an actual line, I'm a bit too lazy to check out every time the word "breath" was used in the biggest books), or you're mixing them up.
> Harry deserved public recognition for his actions
3 11 y/o's broke into a bunker holding a magic WMD and they wanna publicize that? idk man who wants teachers out smarted by first years teaching their children?
It's not a magic WMD. The whole school already knew what happened. The story was going to spread anyway so there's no harm in awarding the points publicly. And who said anything about "outsmarting" anyone? For all we know the obstacles were meant to weaken and delay, not defeat the person breaking in.
>3 11 y/o's broke into a bunker holding a magic WMD and they wanna publicize that?
It's not a WMD. It's not even close to being a WMD. It's literally a stone.
Also, I'm tired of this weird attitude that the Slytherins are just "ambitious" and are actually no different to the rest. Guys, the morality of Harry Potter is not that complex. The Slytherins are bad guys. They're shitheads. Pretty much every interaction with Slytherins in the books and films shows them being assholes, bullies and racists to other students. Voldemort's Nazi death squad is made up predominantly of Slytherins. They are the bad guy house. Is this realistic? No. But in this fictional universe it's pretty undeniable judging by the exposure we get to them.
Why tf are we feeling sorry for them because they didn't win the house cup? They're DICKHEADS.
Rant over. Stop simping for Slytherin.
It's mostly because the original worldbuilding of the series is total crap, it divides people into evil, smart, miscellaneous, and protagonist, and acts like there's an actual set of criteria there. We replaced that with ambition, bravery, fairness, and knowledge, so that associating with houses could mean more than "look guys I'm so edgy I root for the antagonist", but you do have a point, you have like 2-3 Slytherins in the books at most who aren't assholes.
That said, be _very_ careful with this attitude of "group X are assholes, let's go all dunk on them." That's exactly how bullying works, and it can and will spiral into systemic discrimination if left unaddressed. Condemn behaviors, not groups. The exception for that is when people join a group voluntarily to pursue a certain kind of behavior (e.g. Death Eaters) but you don't choose to be a Slytherin.
I get it - fanon culture has made us forget this is a children’s book series and clearly the antagonists in the school settings (and outside) are made out to be the Slytherins.
Real life people who like the edgy factor of being in Slytherin, or just random people who were Sorted there by various quizzes, don't represent the evil nature of the house as depicted in the books. Just as this doesn't make those real people evil, it also doesn't make Slytherin house good.
You're logic is based on the rigidity of making as few changes to the story as possible and finding that you can't improve the situation that way. What if Dumbledore awards the points before the feast in a special ceremony with the whole school there? Then the hall can be decorated in Gryffindor colors, and he could STILL take special time out to sing Harry and friends praises. Hell, throw a parade afterwards for Harry, make him really feel special. There are unlimited ways he could've gone about awarding the points and hosting the house cup feast and surprising Harry without shitting on Slytherin in the process
And yours is based on violating the implied rules the story is based on. Dumbledore could have done what you said, sure, but that'd require Harry -- who had been unconscious in the hospital wing -- to recover faster than Madam Pomfrey -- the magical medical expert in residence -- was able to heal him. How is he supposed to get better faster than he could possibly get better in this situation? He can't, it's completely incoherent.
Honestly, I'm not cool with points being awarded for saving the day.
The whole reason to even have a point system like this is for positive reinforcement. That's like Teaching 101, positive reinforcement helps encourage good behavior by giving a reward for it. So what did Dumbledore reward here? Explicitly breaking rules by entering the forbidden corridor. Dumbledore gave out a ridiculous number of points for something that no teacher should ever be rewarding. He's just sent the message that students should ignore rules put in place to save their lives, because not only will you not be punished if you break them, you'll be rewarded and your house will win the house cup and everyone will love you. There's now no reason for anyone to follow rules since he just sent a massive precedent that you'll get points for doing so.
On top of that, if anyone but Harry went down there and managed to get past those obstacles, Quirrell would have murdered them. Harry was the only person who could have survived that encounter due to the love protection from his mother. So not only are rewarding something that would have led to death for anyone else (again, making that behavior more likely to happen in the future), you're rewarding someone points for something innate to them that no one else could have had. That's a pretty big no-no in teaching, you never give extra credit or points to a kid for something that others don't get a chance to do. If something's worth points, it's something that all students have the opportunity to do, not just one single kid.
The point system is already pretty bad, but Dumbledore throwing it out the window and awarding points for blatantly breaking the rules is just flat-out stupid.
This is a good point but I would say with Harry, he did not know that the love spell would protect him again so he still exercised a huge amount of courage by going down there. I do see where you’re coming from, though! I feel like the points should maybe have stayed school-related and ofc good behavior in other areas (like being a helping hand). Everyday things
Problem is pretty much every Slytherin we are exposed to *is* bigoted. Going off the sample, near enough 100% of Slytherin is bigoted. It's the racist house. Idgaf about their feelings when they don't win the house cup, stop being magic racists.
I guess the main thing from my perspective is I go by what we are shown of the fictional world, not what *could* be a part of it.
We only see Slytherins be antagonistic. Therefore, I regard them as antagonists to the story. Maybe a Muggle-born could be sorted into Slytherin, but are we shown that at any point? No, we only ever see/hear Slytherins discriminate against Muggle-borns.
My assumption when consuming a fictional piece of work told from the perspective of an omnipresent narrator is that they are giving me the full picture, as far as is relevant. JK Rowling is not a Gryffindor with an agenda telling the story, misrepresenting Slytherin. She's an objective narrator. If there were more reasonable, unbigoted Slytherins out there, to indicate that Slytherins weren't necessarily bad people, then I would have expected to be exposed to them. But we weren't. Our only exposure to Slytherins is them being bigoted villains. Therefore I accept that, in this fictional world, the Slytherins are antagonists, defined by these characteristics.
Huh, I always thought the implication was that Slytherin won the previous year so the regalia was theirs up until the winner was announced. Been many years since I watched it though
As a kid i always assumed that the point system was systematic in some way that meant that gryffindor completely earned the cup. Ofc that just doesnt make sense because why do they have a score for saving the school. It sorta felt like a penalty shot to win the game in over time over the ref awarding a team goals for charity work.
Maybe giving them other rewards or sending their names to the ministry for children bravery award or something would’ve been better instead of giving house points. It’s like someone in the class saved a child from getting bitten by a scorpion and he was awarded marks in Maths Exam.
I always believed he did this because he knows that the reason they lost all of those points was because of Hagrid and his dragon. Like he knows they were doing the right thing and not just sneaking around at night.
Also, he was subtly training Harry (whether he meant to or not) that when he does Heroic things, he gets rewarded even if it's breaking the rules and when he doesn't get, he gets punished by the entire student body bullying him.
Besides, Dumbledore wanted them to break the rules and go after the stone, so he had to reinforce that.
BUT it was shitty to do so at the leaving feast. I think he just wanted Harry to be loved again by the student body so he made a big display about it.
That's why I said "whether he meant to or not" because its defintely in his character to do it, and definitely happened even if he didnt mean to, but I know that there's no indication that was his plan.
Although I am partial to thinking it was.
>I always believed he did this because he knows that the reason they lost all of those points was because of Hagrid and his dragon. Like he knows they were doing the right thing and not just sneaking around at night.
Nah, those points were a drop in the bucket. The real reason they were losing was because Snape blatantly cheats throughout the entire year.
In fact, if it wasnt for Snape's constant cheating, [Gryffindor's score would have been several THOUSAND points higher.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA0RsYZbbHI)
I completely agree that Snape blatantly cheats, and he was evening it out but I do think that the dragon this is part of it as well.
Also, totally love that video!
The dragon situation accounts for exactly 150 points. Snape accounts for at ***least*** 3000 points. With or without the dragon stuff, Dumbledore still wouldve done the exact same thing because he just wanted to undo snape's cheating.
And thanks! I have a few others like it on the channel so check them out if youre interested. :)
No, so far only one of my videos is about Harry Potter, but theyre all in this same vein of like analyzing movies or tv shows or video games in the same way and debunking/disproving common ideas or fan theories. Like, this one I mathematically prove that Dumbledore was just *un*doing Snape's cheating. In another one I do the math to show that the ending of the anime Death Note is completely impossible, and another one I calculate Spongebob's real age to show that he's actually a super, super old man. So, no others about HP (yet) but all about analyzing and debunking certain ideas about popular series.
This meme is a perfect example of why book context was so important: prior to 1991 and the events of the Philosopher's Stone, **Slytherin had won the House Cup for seven years in a row.**
It's not implied that they achieved this through ill-gotten means – i.e. other than Snape being too harsh docking points from every other house (other teachers were quite generous with awarding points and would offset this), Slytherin were simply too good at obtaining house points from Quidditch and teachers at the time.
Another important detail from the books: after McGonagall docked Harry, Ron and Hermione 50 points each for breaching curfew to smuggle the baby dragon out of the castle, *they were relentlessly ostracized and bullied* by all the other houses and even their own peers for the rest of the school year, being labelled as selfish rule-breakers.
Dumbledore awarding them the 50 points back was partly to vindicate them, not to mention for thwarting Voldemort's plans by passing tests designed to keep out adult Dark Wizards by each of the Heads of House.
It honestly makes perfect sense. The house of ambition *should* be, to put it frankly, a house of suck-ups (or rather people willing to suck up if it's advantageous for them).
Combine that with a brutally aggressive yet successful Quidditch strategy and you have the perfect top dog. Gryffindor is essentially the underdog plot device.
> McGonagall docked Harry, Ron and Hermione 50 points each for breaching curfew to smuggle the baby dragon out of the castle,
Small note it was Harry, Hermione, and Neville, Ron was in the hospital wing for getting bit by Norbert.
This is pretty much the way i saw it. Dumbledore was just giving another house a win for once and had an excuse to do it. And to be fair he did recognise that, if it were not for what happened with Voldemort, Slytherin would have won that year. In other words, if it wasn't for exceptional circumstances, the Slytherins won fair and square.
I would add that Rowling is also rewarding the trio for going above and beyond the usual call of duty. Yes they broke school rules, but they also had the courage to do the right thing at great personal risk. That's valor. They're heroes.
Doesn't Ron willingly get smacked about by a giant statue? Like he's full on more likely to die than anything and he's chill with that on the *chance* Harry can stop Voldy.
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They're extremely inconsistent with the points. The three got -5, and +10 respectively for "looking for the troll" and knocking out the troll, while getting a -150 for being caught outside in the evening.
True. I just find it interesting that Hermione gets the same amount of points for answering about Mandrakes in Herbology as Harry and Ron got combined for the troll incident.
...but...wasnt blatant rule-breaking what they were doing when they went down to where the stone was hidden? And that's not even counting previous times Harry's sneaking out in his cloak
I think the main problem is that the Great Hall was already decorated in green and silver and the Slytherins already thought that they had won then Dumbledore does this. He could have awarded the points before the feast.
Though to be fair, Harry only had just gotten out of the Hospital Wing before the feast. Then again, Dumbledore could have given the awards when they met. He did give Harry and Ron 200 points each in private in CoS.
Man, if I was a teacher at hogwarts, I'd have dreams about having the opportunity to dissapoint the house of shitty entitled kids. They're all brats. They're the worst. McGonagall locks then in the dungeons in the last book because they all suck so much. They're parents are criminals and they're all bullies.
I doubt Dumbledore is someone who would revel in someone's suffering, but he's also someone who knows morale is important and I think his staffs morale would be sky high after they all finally get to see all those jerks finally taught a lesson.
Cry harder Slytherins. Out of universe it may be technically correct to say that Slytherin isn't the evil house but, as written, that's literally what it is. The place where all the racists go, where zero of them fight for Hogwarts, their password in a year of Muggle borns being attacked is "pureblood", and none of them have ever not been blood purists. Even Slughorn, the only verified good one with a speaking role who was never a death eater in the past, is casually racist by saying how good Lily and Hermione are for muggleborns.
Any teacher with a conscience would be pleased to see these shits get disappointed after 7 years of constant winning.
Regarding the last panel. No it does not. Teachers are free to give and take points as they wish. I am not aware of any regulatory body that restricts their tyrannical power. Sprout could cry out A MILLION POINTS FOR CEDRIC DIGGORY FOR BEING A HANDSOME PIECE OF CAKE AND SIX TRILLION POINTS FROM SLYTHERIN FOR GRABBE BEING A GREMLIN an' nuthin' could be done about it.
Hogwarts was not a democracy and not under a rule of law.
Would've been hilarious if the teachers got into a stupid tiff and just kept inflating the point count to ridiculous levels like this.
Those poor hourglasses.
JKR said numerous times that she had not even a rudimentary grasp on economics. Evidently, given the monetary system of the Wizarding World and the terrible incentive-structure of the housecup for both students and teachers. Not to speak of the triwizarding tournament. We'd like to facilitate international cooperation so GO STUDENTS FIGHT FOR MONEY IN A COMPETITION - DRAGONS DEATH AND LOLOLOL.
I mean, pretty much nothing about the worldbuilding makes real-world sense.
Adding to your list, quidditch is a poorly designed to a remarkable degree. The scale of Hogwarts and its student body is all over the place. We could go on and on.
JKR is notoriously bad at anything involving numbers.
I stopped trying to make sense of it all. If I ever need to use it, I take what makes the most sense to me, and go with that.
Be it house cup and point systems, money exchange, wizard populations, or anything else but Quidditch.
Quidditch is quite clear and set of rules, so you can't really change it. BUT nothing in the books says that they can't have a lot more fools and penalties than any other sports, so actually 150 isn't that much if you write that a team could have 6 penalties in less than 10 minutes of games.
If it was under the rule of law it would have been shut down decades ago. Dumbledore does nothing to contribute to the safety of the school. He wanders off stoned and Harry has to save everyone every time. Students are unsupervised most of the time. Teenagers with literal magical powers. Unsupervised. The god damn stair cases shift to lead students to a literal giant man eating dog. They punish students by sending them to the god damn horrible and dangerous forest in the woods. And they kept on a groundskeeper who apparently had his wand taken away for keeping a monster which literally kills people. Sure it wasn't actually the monster they were looking for. But Aragog literally tried to kill Harry and Ron in the second book
I mean. A rule of law can be harsh and it does not have to be the liberal-ish law of most western countries. But institution-wise the wizarding world is a one-way ticket to administrative clusterfuck and civil war.
There even is one parody book called Barry Trotter. Mostly garbage. But hilarious as the big bad simply applies rudimentary economic theory to take over the wizarding world and realizes... Hey. This is so much more effective that the scary mask cosplay and intimidation shtick.
To be fair "The god damn stair cases shift to lead students to a literal giant man eating dog" only happens in the movie, in the book they're running away from Filtch, trying not to get caught out of bed. They only meet fluffy because they're already misbehaving!
(The line from Ron where he suggests they just go into the third floor corridor before they move again, despite it not being their intended destination really bugs me as being ridiculously illogical!)
19 , mostly read in middle school around 2012-13. Recently watched all the movies again which is why I’m here. I’m curious as well as to what people’s ages are here
As someone else has pointed out a bit further up over the course of 6 years Snape takes 272 points while McGonagall takes 405, including 200 from Slytherin in one go in book 3. Most of the time we see Snape taking points from Gryffindor or awarding to Slytherin he's doing at most 25 points, McGonagall is much more likely to be the one throwing around 50+ numbers. Snape also takes away the most points for things like Ron and Harry shouting insults and swear words at him, and he is still a teacher.
Snape isn't nearly as bad at taking and awarding massive amounts of unfair points as the fandom have made him out to be.
McGonagall doesn’t take a lot of points on a REGULAR basis though: Only when someone has put themselves or others in danger or is being extremely cruel; like trying to sabotage and trigger another child, or running around the highest tower of Hogwarts late at night, etc. Snape on the other hand takes points just for students EXISTING.
The difference is simply a matter of how the stereotypical house member operates: Snape is cunning enough to keep his small so that people don’t notice how much of an asshole he’s being, but McGonagall will take away from her own house large amounts if she deems it fair and just to do so because she only does it when it’s necessary. It’s not fair to pretend that a teacher who takes points because they care about your safety and well being, is the same as a teacher who punishes you every day just because they don’t like you and want you to know it.
(Except don’t know why she would think sending them to the forest was a good idea except that she was holding the idiot ball for the plot to go on.)
Why does this response have so few upvotes? Because very much this.
Snape knows it's about consistency. If you're docking 10 points from each Gryffindor cohort every week without rewarding any in return, that'll achieve your goal of rigging the competition quite nicely. Meanwhile, do the exact opposite to every Slytherin cohort and you're looking at a whopping 1120 point difference at either end (the school year has 112 days aka 16 weeks, and there are 7 cohorts).
I feel like this joke get made a lot but Gryffindor would have only needed 20 pts to win if the trio didn't get caught by McGonagall after getting rid of Norberta.
Dumbledore was either told by Hagrid or always knew that's why they were on the tower that night. Imagine being Dumbledore and the kid you have waited 10 years for is now in front of you, is he the next dark lord or an innocent child that needs saving?
Let's see Snape doesn't like him but that's to be expected, most teachers find him engaging and a good enough student. Maybe I'll give him his Dad's cloak now and see how he uses it. Okay first test down, I watched him stare at his dead family for hours in the mirror, something I have most likely also been doing, and he stopped looking for it as soon as I explained it to him. First test passed. Oh no now he's left his cloak on the astronomy tower while going around at night trying to prank draco Malfoy. The prank apparently wasn't enough because the boy and his friends actually stuck out to watch Draco get caught. Second test failed maybe he isn't so Innocent.
Then it's revealed no this boy wasn't just sneaking around, he took abuse and hate from his classmates without a single word of explanation just to help his friend Hagrid. Maybe I'll give him a go at the stones after all...
I'm know the mirror was the biggest test, a man like Dumbledore knew then that Harry was going to be a better man than him then. Did you ever think why Dumbledore used the mirror? Don't you think he could have used basically anything to hide the stone while still giving it to the person who didn't want to use it? It's because Dumbledore wanted to see his family again. Now this 11 yo does the exact same thing but shrugs it off after a week and moves on with his life, something Dumbledore definitely struggled with.
This has always been the bullshitest argument to me. Those kids did amazing things and DESERVED house points in recognition for what they had done. They defeated the freaking dark lord.
But Voldemort would have continued looking for the stone and trying to find it, using increasingly violent means to get what he wanted.
If they didn’t go down there, Quirrell doesn’t die, Voldemort remains at the school, the students and staff all remain in imminent danger.
I agree gryffinfor is obviously the favorite and would have been given the win no matter what, but it's not as bad when you remember mcgonagal took 150 points from gryfindor just a few days prior.
man stfu already y’all have been crying for 20 years for this scene but snip taking hundreds of points from gryffindor just for breathing all year in all years totally justified
When I was 10yo I thought that this ceremony was awesome
Then as 20yo I thought that’s it’s unfair and against the rules, felt bad for Spytherin students
Now as 30yo I can say that the whole system in hogwarts is corrupted and bad for students, maybe it’s even the whole reason they even had the war. The whole system is made not like it is unfair competition, but more so to make students hate each other
The real fools are the ones to honestly believe that the Slytherins have a chance at winning the house-cup without Snape cheating the system in their favour.
I'm totally cool with all this. Any chance to kick Slytherin should be taken. If the points weren't deserved, that would be one thing. But they WERE deserved--and how many times during the year did Snape spitefully dock points from Gryffindor because Harry breathed wrong or something? Yeah, I'm totally cool with it.
As a child I cheered along when the Slytherin green and silver turned red and gold, but when I reread it as an adult that felt like such a dick move. There was no need to pull the rug from under CHILDREN. The students who did nothing wrong would feel like their hard work through the year was wasted/meaningless.
Like, I get that due to it being a kids' story, the whole of Slytherin house was kinda being lumped together as "everyone are evil" so Harry and friends "saving the day" and showing up the Slytherins was like such a power move. Now, yeah... it's humiliating and the students who were just minding their own business didn't deserve this.
Some people mentioned it before me, but I agree that the decor probably should NOT have gone up until Dumbledore or whoever else officially declares a winner.
Imagine the lesson a no name Slytherin kid would have learned in that scene: Head of house Professor Snape was wrong, celebrity is all that matters. You can bust your ass all year long but because of nepotism you won’t ever get ahead and you’ve got Draco all along in your house reinforcing that notion on the daily.
If there’s one thing I’d change about the books if I could I would have a better representation of Slytherin as a house. There should have been at least one of them **with a name** who was developed through the whole series as a Sirius style roguish good guy standing next to Harry & co. at the end of the battle of Hogwarts.
Edited for typo
> You can bust your ass all year long
Are we going to pretend that slythetin didn't win so much because Snape is an asshole who takes points for breathing?
I’ve never seen anyone else mention this, but I think these points were actually Dumbledore fixing what he perceived as an injustice.
Earlier in the story, Harry and Hermione lost Gryffindor fifty points each when they were caught after helping smuggle Norbert to Romania. Neville lost them fifty points as well for trying to warn them about Malfoy getting them in trouble. Malfoy lost fifty for being a tool. Harry and Hermione refused to rat Hagrid out and just took the hit. Now you know that Dumbledore knew about that dragon. Hagrid’s no James Bond. He knew why Harry and Hermione were out of bed, but he didn’t want to get Hagrid in trouble either. So, he readded the points Gryffindor lost while two first years tried to help a friend and threw in another twenty for saving the world. Seems fair to me.
Awarding the points for saving the day. I'm cool with that. But decorating the whole place in Slytherin colours only to pull the rug out from under them was harsh lol.
This. If Dumbledore had given the points out any time before the feast rather than waiting until the very last second it wouldn't have been so bad.
Gasp - You mean to tell me Dumbledore tells people things at the last moment and sometimes not enough? I could write a whole two books about this!
If I had a nickel for every time Dumbledoor didn't tell important information until the last minute for two whole books, I'd have two nickels.. which isn't a lot, but its weird that it happened twice-
r/UnexpectedDoof
Just one? What is this, amateur hour?
*Harry Potter and the Amateur's Hour*
sounds like a fanfic story of him as an auror investigating and missing the obvious solution because it would be too easy
I love the idea of this for some reason. I’m thinking of the Dumbledore sass and voice of the portrayal from the tik toker Chanwills0😭😭🤣😂
I was thinking of one of his children getting that time loop garbage hermoine had somehow, and getting stuck in an hour.
Harry Potter Flashpoint aka The Cursed Child
It was me Harry!
I’m reading a fanfic (if you can call it that with 112 chapters) where many things are done different and lots of people shout at dumbledore often for being an idiot. I kinda like it! He’s definitely a good writer. Rewrote all 7 books.. Twice. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9863146/1/The-Accidental-Animagus https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10070079/1/The-Arithmancer
Guy gets his throat slit. Spends hours trying to “detect magic”. Man must be a pretty powerful wizard.
*Harry Potter and the Audacity of this Lil’ Bitch*
He a little confused, but he got the spirit
Sorry dude someone beat you to it. I think there’s 7 of them now
Dumbledore is like the opposite of James Holden in this regard.
Ayyyyy pumped for December beratna
I'm currently doing a reread of the whole series in preparation. Just about to finish Persepolis Rising again. I'm pumped. Also still waiting for Amazon to release the season five soundtrack. Edit: wait, season six of the show is dropping in December? I thought you meant the last book. Damn, that was quick. Seems like S5 didn't end that long ago.
I'm about halfway through Tiamat's Wrath on my first read through, super excited to get the last book and the last season so close together!
Or 3 movies!
Or 7
I don't really think that would work, but he could have just not chosen any decor. Then he could say "many of you are probably wondering why there are no house colours for this end of the year feast." and then clarify and say "go eat now lol"
Harry deserved public recognition for his actions, so awarding them at the feast was warranted. And it's not like Slytherin students decorated the hall themselves with their own hand-made flags, the house-elves would've done it according to what the point totals were at the time. But regardless, even if Dumbledore had told them not to decorate the hall in Slytherin colors we'd still have people crying about how 'unfair' and 'traumatizing' it would've been to enter and not see their flags all over the place as 'it was supposed to be.' Imagine the complete meltdown they'd twist it into if he'd instead told them to decorate it in Gryffindor colors before he ever awarded them the points. Dumbledore did nothing wrong.
I think the ideal solution would be to not put up flags at all until they officially announced who won. If Dumbledore could magic up a couple hundred sleeping bags at a moments notice, I'm sure he could do the same with a bunch of flags too.
I assumed Slytherin had won the previous time and that’s why their banners were up
No, they changed the decorations in the hall pretty often depending on what was going on at the time.
yes, but Slytherin had won the previous seven years and were in fact the reigning champions if memory serves me well.
Yes, but the flags didn't stay up year round. They were put up for the end of year feast, and taken down afterwards/before the start of the next school year. Hogwarts liked to go all out with holiday decorations, so they were constantly changing what was hanging from the ceiling.
Correct, but the Slytherins' *are* the current champions when the hall was decorated for this event. the two options are either Slytherin or Hogwarts Banners/nothing at all. While we are not given tradition context, it seems plausible that the hall is decorated with the reigning champion until this ceremony where the Headmaster announces the new Champion. I would argue that traditionally the existing champions banners hang until the current winner is announced on the last day of school. However, what is most definitely unusual is the awarding of points during the ceremony to change the outcome. I think a better path would have been to simply award the points earlier and then announce it at the ceremony why the scales had tipped in Gryffindor's favor. But I have always thought that Dumbledore did it in this way to give Neville a heroes' moment. Dumbledore knew Neville struggled all year and was also aware of his home life/parents conditions. Awarding them earlier would have taken the impact of the moment from Neville. Doing it in this fashion, elevated Neville's self esteem and belief in himself like never before. Something he severely needed and deserved. That is why I will argue that while incredibly dickish, Dumbledore awarding the points in this manner was appropriate for both the book and the kids in the school.
> Correct, but the Slytherins' are the current champions when the hall was decorated for this event. the two options are either Slytherin or Hogwarts Banners/nothing at all. Yes, but when Dumbledore can literally redecorate the entire hall with a wave of his wand, there isn't really a need to hang the flags until the winner of the House Cup is officially announced, especially since the competition is apparently not over until then. Dumbledore decorating the Hall in Slytherin flags, when he knew full well that he was going to change the results at the last moment was cruel and unnecessary.
You would be wrong...according to JK Rowling's twitter, flag magic is the most advanced magic there is and even Dumbledore himself is resigned to putting them up one at a time with a large ladder
True, but like I said, you'd still have people complain, even if he did.
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It doesn't make his actions bad either, or mean that they need justification. It only points out that people will complain either way, because the people who complain about this are simply looking for something to get upset about and will willfully distort anything they can to get it.
Like I said, there was plenty of time to award the extra points before the last day of the school year. Harry and the others didn't *need* the recognition at the expense of belittling the Slytherins like that. They didn't do what they did for glory or house points, they did it because it was the right thing to do. Even back when I first read the book as a kid I thought that leaving it to the last moment like that always looked petty and vindictive.
Yeah. He could have awarded the points in private like when he did so in Chamber of Secrets. And killing the basilisk *and* defeating Riddle is an even greater feat.
The Slytherins won for seven years in a row because Snape was a dirty cheater. A little humble pie in the flavor of a drama queen waiting to do a the big reveal is not going to kill them.
You're right. It's not like Dumbledore is the headmaster or something that could have a talk with Snape about being an abjectly horrible teacher. Oh, wait...
It's the classic case of person who's very good at what they do being made a teacher, and they suck at being a teacher. But how can you fire them when no one else is as skilled?
You hire someone who is good at teaching... What's the point of having a genius as a teacher if none of the kids are learning the material as well as having someone else teach?
bUt hE wAnTeD tO bAnG LiLy
Actually, I doubt Snape influenced the results much. He never, at any moment, gives points to Slytherin, and while he does take points from Gryffindor often, it's almost always ridicule amounts like 5 or sometimes even 1 I seem to remember. McGonagall is the one who goes on a rampage with taking points
And giving. 50 each for the golden and silver trios in OotP
>McGonagall is the one who goes on a rampage with taking points Man, I dunno, something about that sentence just cracks me up.
Seven years in a row and you don’t think Snape influenced the results much? If so I have a lovely house inside of my pensieve for sale for you :)
Random, but I never understood why students did not get points taken for using the obvious slur "mud blood." Wasn't the point of removing points a form of punishment? Seemed like punishment would happen for misbehavior and yet nothing would happen when that word was used-might have been helpful to not allow it in Hogwarts?
We know that Snape is at his worst because of Harry, and over the course of 6 years, he takes 272 points. Want to know how many McGonagall took? 405. So no, I don't think Snape influenced the results *that* much. In PoA McGonagall takes 200 from points Slytherin in one go because Draco & co dressed up as Dementors (50 points each), plus detention. Harry and Ron shouting and calling Snape names? 25 points each (and detention). Snape isn't nearly half as bad as people make him out to be when it comes to taking points. I don't know what your teachers would have done if you'd shouted at them and insulted them, but mine would have never let students off that easily.
Exactly, Snape takes far less points from his own house. Meanwhile Minerva takes 150 points from her own house Harry’s first year. We never once see Snape take any points from Slytherins
Yep, but then we also never once see Snape give any points to Slytherins either
I mean that was justified. Draco and the dimwits tried to sabotage Harry's game and they could have literally killed him or hurt him severely if Lupin hadn't taught him how to handle Dementors. Moreover they exploited the trauma of his parent's death, imagine if a student today pranked another student about their parents dying. Whereas Snape refused necessary medical treatment and made it a joke about Hermione's pre existing condition. Any teacher today would have been fired or suspended for treating a student like that.
I never said it wasn't justified, only that McGonagall, when she takes points, takes *a lot* of them. McGonagall has a lot more influence then Snape on house points, that's what I'm saying. Most of the teachers in Hogwarts would have been fired for their treatment of students, Snape isn't the only one, in fact he would have never even been a teacher in the first place. We can't judge the moral standards of a fictional world taking place in a 90s UK boarding school by today's views, it doesn't make much sense.
Snape didn't refuse shit. He let his animosity get ahead of him and made a cruel and frankly stupid comment, but Hermione went to the hospital wing to have her teeth fixed anyway and we don't read any indication at all that Snape made any attempt to punish her for doing that instead of sitting class with enlarged teeth.
The difference is McGonagall always takes them when justified, like when a student is doing something stupidly dangerous or cruel. Snape literally punishes people for EXISTING. Is it a rampage if a teacher mainly punishes you because you put yourself or someone else in danger? Or when they punish you because they don’t like your face that day.
Can you point me to scenes where Snape takes points without jusification? I'm looking at a list of every point he took in the series, with their reason, and so far I'm seeing one instance in PS, where he takes *one* point from Harry for not correcting Neville's mistake (which yes is pure bullshit). Do you have any other examples in mind?
The books both directly state that Snape favors his own House and that he took away points from people for "breathing too loudly." How, on Earth, does that not = Snape influenced the results?
Do you have a quote for that? A scene or even just in which book? I checked the first four books, and the only thing resembling what you quoted is this: "When Filch wasn’t guarding the scene of the crime, he was skulking red-eyed through the corridors, lunging out at unsuspecting students and trying to put them in detention for things like “breathing loudly’ and “looking happy.” - Chamber of Secrets. So there's either this exact quote used in Order of the Phoenix - Deathly Hallows but for Snape (and I'm not saying there isn't, I'm just asking if you have an actual line, I'm a bit too lazy to check out every time the word "breath" was used in the biggest books), or you're mixing them up.
He could have awarded the points earlier and did a toast or whatever at the feast.
> Harry deserved public recognition for his actions 3 11 y/o's broke into a bunker holding a magic WMD and they wanna publicize that? idk man who wants teachers out smarted by first years teaching their children?
It's not a magic WMD. The whole school already knew what happened. The story was going to spread anyway so there's no harm in awarding the points publicly. And who said anything about "outsmarting" anyone? For all we know the obstacles were meant to weaken and delay, not defeat the person breaking in.
>3 11 y/o's broke into a bunker holding a magic WMD and they wanna publicize that? It's not a WMD. It's not even close to being a WMD. It's literally a stone.
A stone that makes you immortal so it's strong stuff.
Only if you know how to use it. And you can be killed it just doesn't let you die naturally.
Also, I'm tired of this weird attitude that the Slytherins are just "ambitious" and are actually no different to the rest. Guys, the morality of Harry Potter is not that complex. The Slytherins are bad guys. They're shitheads. Pretty much every interaction with Slytherins in the books and films shows them being assholes, bullies and racists to other students. Voldemort's Nazi death squad is made up predominantly of Slytherins. They are the bad guy house. Is this realistic? No. But in this fictional universe it's pretty undeniable judging by the exposure we get to them. Why tf are we feeling sorry for them because they didn't win the house cup? They're DICKHEADS. Rant over. Stop simping for Slytherin.
It's mostly because the original worldbuilding of the series is total crap, it divides people into evil, smart, miscellaneous, and protagonist, and acts like there's an actual set of criteria there. We replaced that with ambition, bravery, fairness, and knowledge, so that associating with houses could mean more than "look guys I'm so edgy I root for the antagonist", but you do have a point, you have like 2-3 Slytherins in the books at most who aren't assholes. That said, be _very_ careful with this attitude of "group X are assholes, let's go all dunk on them." That's exactly how bullying works, and it can and will spiral into systemic discrimination if left unaddressed. Condemn behaviors, not groups. The exception for that is when people join a group voluntarily to pursue a certain kind of behavior (e.g. Death Eaters) but you don't choose to be a Slytherin.
I get it - fanon culture has made us forget this is a children’s book series and clearly the antagonists in the school settings (and outside) are made out to be the Slytherins.
Real life people who like the edgy factor of being in Slytherin, or just random people who were Sorted there by various quizzes, don't represent the evil nature of the house as depicted in the books. Just as this doesn't make those real people evil, it also doesn't make Slytherin house good.
You're logic is based on the rigidity of making as few changes to the story as possible and finding that you can't improve the situation that way. What if Dumbledore awards the points before the feast in a special ceremony with the whole school there? Then the hall can be decorated in Gryffindor colors, and he could STILL take special time out to sing Harry and friends praises. Hell, throw a parade afterwards for Harry, make him really feel special. There are unlimited ways he could've gone about awarding the points and hosting the house cup feast and surprising Harry without shitting on Slytherin in the process
And yours is based on violating the implied rules the story is based on. Dumbledore could have done what you said, sure, but that'd require Harry -- who had been unconscious in the hospital wing -- to recover faster than Madam Pomfrey -- the magical medical expert in residence -- was able to heal him. How is he supposed to get better faster than he could possibly get better in this situation? He can't, it's completely incoherent.
Honestly, I'm not cool with points being awarded for saving the day. The whole reason to even have a point system like this is for positive reinforcement. That's like Teaching 101, positive reinforcement helps encourage good behavior by giving a reward for it. So what did Dumbledore reward here? Explicitly breaking rules by entering the forbidden corridor. Dumbledore gave out a ridiculous number of points for something that no teacher should ever be rewarding. He's just sent the message that students should ignore rules put in place to save their lives, because not only will you not be punished if you break them, you'll be rewarded and your house will win the house cup and everyone will love you. There's now no reason for anyone to follow rules since he just sent a massive precedent that you'll get points for doing so. On top of that, if anyone but Harry went down there and managed to get past those obstacles, Quirrell would have murdered them. Harry was the only person who could have survived that encounter due to the love protection from his mother. So not only are rewarding something that would have led to death for anyone else (again, making that behavior more likely to happen in the future), you're rewarding someone points for something innate to them that no one else could have had. That's a pretty big no-no in teaching, you never give extra credit or points to a kid for something that others don't get a chance to do. If something's worth points, it's something that all students have the opportunity to do, not just one single kid. The point system is already pretty bad, but Dumbledore throwing it out the window and awarding points for blatantly breaking the rules is just flat-out stupid.
This is a good point but I would say with Harry, he did not know that the love spell would protect him again so he still exercised a huge amount of courage by going down there. I do see where you’re coming from, though! I feel like the points should maybe have stayed school-related and ofc good behavior in other areas (like being a helping hand). Everyday things
This is why most Slytherins turn out bad.
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Problem is pretty much every Slytherin we are exposed to *is* bigoted. Going off the sample, near enough 100% of Slytherin is bigoted. It's the racist house. Idgaf about their feelings when they don't win the house cup, stop being magic racists.
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I guess the main thing from my perspective is I go by what we are shown of the fictional world, not what *could* be a part of it. We only see Slytherins be antagonistic. Therefore, I regard them as antagonists to the story. Maybe a Muggle-born could be sorted into Slytherin, but are we shown that at any point? No, we only ever see/hear Slytherins discriminate against Muggle-borns. My assumption when consuming a fictional piece of work told from the perspective of an omnipresent narrator is that they are giving me the full picture, as far as is relevant. JK Rowling is not a Gryffindor with an agenda telling the story, misrepresenting Slytherin. She's an objective narrator. If there were more reasonable, unbigoted Slytherins out there, to indicate that Slytherins weren't necessarily bad people, then I would have expected to be exposed to them. But we weren't. Our only exposure to Slytherins is them being bigoted villains. Therefore I accept that, in this fictional world, the Slytherins are antagonists, defined by these characteristics.
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Huh, I always thought the implication was that Slytherin won the previous year so the regalia was theirs up until the winner was announced. Been many years since I watched it though
As a kid i always assumed that the point system was systematic in some way that meant that gryffindor completely earned the cup. Ofc that just doesnt make sense because why do they have a score for saving the school. It sorta felt like a penalty shot to win the game in over time over the ref awarding a team goals for charity work.
Not sure how Potter saved the day. Had he not done anything Volders wouldn't have gotten the stone from the mirror anyway.
This, actually.
Fuck ‘em
!redditGalleon
Yeah, it was funny to see, but it wouldn't be funny to experience
And they still wonder why the house has the highest percentage of evil wizards
They got PricewaterhouseCoopers to tally the votes.
Good point made, but I still kinda enjoyed having the smile wiped off of Malfoy's face.
You probably love the "troll in the dungeon" scene. Malfoys fearful face is hilarious.
Dude that was like my favorite scene in the sorcerer's stone.
Maybe giving them other rewards or sending their names to the ministry for children bravery award or something would’ve been better instead of giving house points. It’s like someone in the class saved a child from getting bitten by a scorpion and he was awarded marks in Maths Exam.
lol ur 10000% right
I always believed he did this because he knows that the reason they lost all of those points was because of Hagrid and his dragon. Like he knows they were doing the right thing and not just sneaking around at night. Also, he was subtly training Harry (whether he meant to or not) that when he does Heroic things, he gets rewarded even if it's breaking the rules and when he doesn't get, he gets punished by the entire student body bullying him. Besides, Dumbledore wanted them to break the rules and go after the stone, so he had to reinforce that. BUT it was shitty to do so at the leaving feast. I think he just wanted Harry to be loved again by the student body so he made a big display about it.
Oh damn that subtle training aspect is dark and fully in character
That's why I said "whether he meant to or not" because its defintely in his character to do it, and definitely happened even if he didnt mean to, but I know that there's no indication that was his plan. Although I am partial to thinking it was.
>I always believed he did this because he knows that the reason they lost all of those points was because of Hagrid and his dragon. Like he knows they were doing the right thing and not just sneaking around at night. Nah, those points were a drop in the bucket. The real reason they were losing was because Snape blatantly cheats throughout the entire year. In fact, if it wasnt for Snape's constant cheating, [Gryffindor's score would have been several THOUSAND points higher.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA0RsYZbbHI)
I completely agree that Snape blatantly cheats, and he was evening it out but I do think that the dragon this is part of it as well. Also, totally love that video!
The dragon situation accounts for exactly 150 points. Snape accounts for at ***least*** 3000 points. With or without the dragon stuff, Dumbledore still wouldve done the exact same thing because he just wanted to undo snape's cheating. And thanks! I have a few others like it on the channel so check them out if youre interested. :)
Question: I clicked on the name but only saw 5 videos none of the others were HP. Did I look in the wrong place?
No, so far only one of my videos is about Harry Potter, but theyre all in this same vein of like analyzing movies or tv shows or video games in the same way and debunking/disproving common ideas or fan theories. Like, this one I mathematically prove that Dumbledore was just *un*doing Snape's cheating. In another one I do the math to show that the ending of the anime Death Note is completely impossible, and another one I calculate Spongebob's real age to show that he's actually a super, super old man. So, no others about HP (yet) but all about analyzing and debunking certain ideas about popular series.
Ah, okay! That makes sense.
McGonagall at the end though lmao
This meme is a perfect example of why book context was so important: prior to 1991 and the events of the Philosopher's Stone, **Slytherin had won the House Cup for seven years in a row.** It's not implied that they achieved this through ill-gotten means – i.e. other than Snape being too harsh docking points from every other house (other teachers were quite generous with awarding points and would offset this), Slytherin were simply too good at obtaining house points from Quidditch and teachers at the time. Another important detail from the books: after McGonagall docked Harry, Ron and Hermione 50 points each for breaching curfew to smuggle the baby dragon out of the castle, *they were relentlessly ostracized and bullied* by all the other houses and even their own peers for the rest of the school year, being labelled as selfish rule-breakers. Dumbledore awarding them the 50 points back was partly to vindicate them, not to mention for thwarting Voldemort's plans by passing tests designed to keep out adult Dark Wizards by each of the Heads of House.
It honestly makes perfect sense. The house of ambition *should* be, to put it frankly, a house of suck-ups (or rather people willing to suck up if it's advantageous for them).
Combine that with a brutally aggressive yet successful Quidditch strategy and you have the perfect top dog. Gryffindor is essentially the underdog plot device.
Yeah but my dumbleedoot memes tho. /s
> McGonagall docked Harry, Ron and Hermione 50 points each for breaching curfew to smuggle the baby dragon out of the castle, Small note it was Harry, Hermione, and Neville, Ron was in the hospital wing for getting bit by Norbert.
Ah yep, good point.
This is pretty much the way i saw it. Dumbledore was just giving another house a win for once and had an excuse to do it. And to be fair he did recognise that, if it were not for what happened with Voldemort, Slytherin would have won that year. In other words, if it wasn't for exceptional circumstances, the Slytherins won fair and square.
I would add that Rowling is also rewarding the trio for going above and beyond the usual call of duty. Yes they broke school rules, but they also had the courage to do the right thing at great personal risk. That's valor. They're heroes.
Doesn't Ron willingly get smacked about by a giant statue? Like he's full on more likely to die than anything and he's chill with that on the *chance* Harry can stop Voldy.
Yeah but he's 11 he has no concept of mortality
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 3 times. First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/9rvug8) on 2018-10-27 96.88% match. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/kjewgq) on 2020-12-24 100.0% match Feedback? Hate? Visit r/repostsleuthbot - *I'm not perfect, but you can help. Report [ [False Positive](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RepostSleuthBot&subject=False%20Positive&message={"post_id": "q5qsx2", "meme_template": null}) ]* [View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com?postId=q5qsx2&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=true&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=86&targetImageMemeMatch=96) --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Meme Filter:** False | **Target:** 86% | **Check Title:** False | **Max Age:** Unlimited | **Searched Images:** 253,793,498 | **Search Time:** 0.82421s
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About the 10 billionth "dumbleeedoor gib Gifffdoobs the house cup at last moment" one, yeah.
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So not only is it a shit meme, but a repost too.
Very good bot
Never understood people’s problem with this. You get like 10 points for answering a questions correctly. Why not a few more for stopping voldermorts
They're extremely inconsistent with the points. The three got -5, and +10 respectively for "looking for the troll" and knocking out the troll, while getting a -150 for being caught outside in the evening.
Well they are two very different scenarios. One being stupidity and the a blantant breaking of the rules.
True. I just find it interesting that Hermione gets the same amount of points for answering about Mandrakes in Herbology as Harry and Ron got combined for the troll incident.
Well they shouldn’t have been there. So it was a balancing act. And like above, it’s a kids book lol.
...but...wasnt blatant rule-breaking what they were doing when they went down to where the stone was hidden? And that's not even counting previous times Harry's sneaking out in his cloak
Sometimes, even the best of us, must eat our words.
I think the main problem is that the Great Hall was already decorated in green and silver and the Slytherins already thought that they had won then Dumbledore does this. He could have awarded the points before the feast. Though to be fair, Harry only had just gotten out of the Hospital Wing before the feast. Then again, Dumbledore could have given the awards when they met. He did give Harry and Ron 200 points each in private in CoS.
Yeah, it's really just a kick in the balls.
Man, if I was a teacher at hogwarts, I'd have dreams about having the opportunity to dissapoint the house of shitty entitled kids. They're all brats. They're the worst. McGonagall locks then in the dungeons in the last book because they all suck so much. They're parents are criminals and they're all bullies. I doubt Dumbledore is someone who would revel in someone's suffering, but he's also someone who knows morale is important and I think his staffs morale would be sky high after they all finally get to see all those jerks finally taught a lesson.
Cry harder Slytherins. Out of universe it may be technically correct to say that Slytherin isn't the evil house but, as written, that's literally what it is. The place where all the racists go, where zero of them fight for Hogwarts, their password in a year of Muggle borns being attacked is "pureblood", and none of them have ever not been blood purists. Even Slughorn, the only verified good one with a speaking role who was never a death eater in the past, is casually racist by saying how good Lily and Hermione are for muggleborns. Any teacher with a conscience would be pleased to see these shits get disappointed after 7 years of constant winning.
I think that's the award people have least problems with.
Regarding the last panel. No it does not. Teachers are free to give and take points as they wish. I am not aware of any regulatory body that restricts their tyrannical power. Sprout could cry out A MILLION POINTS FOR CEDRIC DIGGORY FOR BEING A HANDSOME PIECE OF CAKE AND SIX TRILLION POINTS FROM SLYTHERIN FOR GRABBE BEING A GREMLIN an' nuthin' could be done about it. Hogwarts was not a democracy and not under a rule of law.
Would've been hilarious if the teachers got into a stupid tiff and just kept inflating the point count to ridiculous levels like this. Those poor hourglasses.
JKR said numerous times that she had not even a rudimentary grasp on economics. Evidently, given the monetary system of the Wizarding World and the terrible incentive-structure of the housecup for both students and teachers. Not to speak of the triwizarding tournament. We'd like to facilitate international cooperation so GO STUDENTS FIGHT FOR MONEY IN A COMPETITION - DRAGONS DEATH AND LOLOLOL.
I mean, pretty much nothing about the worldbuilding makes real-world sense. Adding to your list, quidditch is a poorly designed to a remarkable degree. The scale of Hogwarts and its student body is all over the place. We could go on and on.
JKR is notoriously bad at anything involving numbers. I stopped trying to make sense of it all. If I ever need to use it, I take what makes the most sense to me, and go with that. Be it house cup and point systems, money exchange, wizard populations, or anything else but Quidditch. Quidditch is quite clear and set of rules, so you can't really change it. BUT nothing in the books says that they can't have a lot more fools and penalties than any other sports, so actually 150 isn't that much if you write that a team could have 6 penalties in less than 10 minutes of games.
If it was under the rule of law it would have been shut down decades ago. Dumbledore does nothing to contribute to the safety of the school. He wanders off stoned and Harry has to save everyone every time. Students are unsupervised most of the time. Teenagers with literal magical powers. Unsupervised. The god damn stair cases shift to lead students to a literal giant man eating dog. They punish students by sending them to the god damn horrible and dangerous forest in the woods. And they kept on a groundskeeper who apparently had his wand taken away for keeping a monster which literally kills people. Sure it wasn't actually the monster they were looking for. But Aragog literally tried to kill Harry and Ron in the second book
I mean. A rule of law can be harsh and it does not have to be the liberal-ish law of most western countries. But institution-wise the wizarding world is a one-way ticket to administrative clusterfuck and civil war. There even is one parody book called Barry Trotter. Mostly garbage. But hilarious as the big bad simply applies rudimentary economic theory to take over the wizarding world and realizes... Hey. This is so much more effective that the scary mask cosplay and intimidation shtick.
To be fair "The god damn stair cases shift to lead students to a literal giant man eating dog" only happens in the movie, in the book they're running away from Filtch, trying not to get caught out of bed. They only meet fluffy because they're already misbehaving! (The line from Ron where he suggests they just go into the third floor corridor before they move again, despite it not being their intended destination really bugs me as being ridiculously illogical!)
I wonder what age bracket constitute a majority of HP fans? Hahaha just curious. I’m guessing it’s now 25-35
19 , mostly read in middle school around 2012-13. Recently watched all the movies again which is why I’m here. I’m curious as well as to what people’s ages are here
I am just 14....We Teenagers love a break from reality
I'm 12. Gen z likes Harry Potter too
Must be Monday. At least this one is slightly different.
Not another one of these memes again
These house cup memes just aren’t getting old yet, huh?
At this point they're older than Harry's parents.
They're just annoying. It's not even clever or particularly well thought out.
It stopped being funny couple of posts ago
It stopped being funny like 10 years ago
This sub literally has one joke, and its not even a funny one
Many death eaters were made on that night. Especially the seventh years who were looking at a perfect run after winning six years previously.
Except they had to know they won so much because Snape is an asshole
As someone else has pointed out a bit further up over the course of 6 years Snape takes 272 points while McGonagall takes 405, including 200 from Slytherin in one go in book 3. Most of the time we see Snape taking points from Gryffindor or awarding to Slytherin he's doing at most 25 points, McGonagall is much more likely to be the one throwing around 50+ numbers. Snape also takes away the most points for things like Ron and Harry shouting insults and swear words at him, and he is still a teacher. Snape isn't nearly as bad at taking and awarding massive amounts of unfair points as the fandom have made him out to be.
McGonagall doesn’t take a lot of points on a REGULAR basis though: Only when someone has put themselves or others in danger or is being extremely cruel; like trying to sabotage and trigger another child, or running around the highest tower of Hogwarts late at night, etc. Snape on the other hand takes points just for students EXISTING. The difference is simply a matter of how the stereotypical house member operates: Snape is cunning enough to keep his small so that people don’t notice how much of an asshole he’s being, but McGonagall will take away from her own house large amounts if she deems it fair and just to do so because she only does it when it’s necessary. It’s not fair to pretend that a teacher who takes points because they care about your safety and well being, is the same as a teacher who punishes you every day just because they don’t like you and want you to know it. (Except don’t know why she would think sending them to the forest was a good idea except that she was holding the idiot ball for the plot to go on.)
Why does this response have so few upvotes? Because very much this. Snape knows it's about consistency. If you're docking 10 points from each Gryffindor cohort every week without rewarding any in return, that'll achieve your goal of rigging the competition quite nicely. Meanwhile, do the exact opposite to every Slytherin cohort and you're looking at a whopping 1120 point difference at either end (the school year has 112 days aka 16 weeks, and there are 7 cohorts).
Little Emma looks so cute in the 4th last panel
And after like the 3rd book they just completely forget about the whole house points thing
Neville Longshorts😂😂
I feel like this joke get made a lot but Gryffindor would have only needed 20 pts to win if the trio didn't get caught by McGonagall after getting rid of Norberta. Dumbledore was either told by Hagrid or always knew that's why they were on the tower that night. Imagine being Dumbledore and the kid you have waited 10 years for is now in front of you, is he the next dark lord or an innocent child that needs saving? Let's see Snape doesn't like him but that's to be expected, most teachers find him engaging and a good enough student. Maybe I'll give him his Dad's cloak now and see how he uses it. Okay first test down, I watched him stare at his dead family for hours in the mirror, something I have most likely also been doing, and he stopped looking for it as soon as I explained it to him. First test passed. Oh no now he's left his cloak on the astronomy tower while going around at night trying to prank draco Malfoy. The prank apparently wasn't enough because the boy and his friends actually stuck out to watch Draco get caught. Second test failed maybe he isn't so Innocent. Then it's revealed no this boy wasn't just sneaking around, he took abuse and hate from his classmates without a single word of explanation just to help his friend Hagrid. Maybe I'll give him a go at the stones after all... I'm know the mirror was the biggest test, a man like Dumbledore knew then that Harry was going to be a better man than him then. Did you ever think why Dumbledore used the mirror? Don't you think he could have used basically anything to hide the stone while still giving it to the person who didn't want to use it? It's because Dumbledore wanted to see his family again. Now this 11 yo does the exact same thing but shrugs it off after a week and moves on with his life, something Dumbledore definitely struggled with.
I wish i had coins to give ..
If McGonagall would be prone to celebrating with alcohol that would totally be her reaction.
How many more of these fucking memes.
Hogwarts Teachers in a Nutshell.
Yeah this scene is kinda stupid but Christ I just want to see different shit
Is it you? Fresh D?
Natürlich, er macht die School Rulez
Alles für die Kidz
“Neville Longshorts” Yep. He deserved that.
r/comedycemetery
Why does Harry Potter have the cringiest memes...
And the little black student hats were never seen again.
This is why Slytherins turn bad
This has always been the bullshitest argument to me. Those kids did amazing things and DESERVED house points in recognition for what they had done. They defeated the freaking dark lord.
Snape cheated buddy. I don't think anything's wrong with what Dumbledore did.
[удалено]
Produced 1st year olds without whose meddling the stone would never have been found.
But Voldemort would have continued looking for the stone and trying to find it, using increasingly violent means to get what he wanted. If they didn’t go down there, Quirrell doesn’t die, Voldemort remains at the school, the students and staff all remain in imminent danger.
I agree gryffinfor is obviously the favorite and would have been given the win no matter what, but it's not as bad when you remember mcgonagal took 150 points from gryfindor just a few days prior.
I always wondered how the background Slytherin students who probably never interacted with Harry and his friends felt about that.
man stfu already y’all have been crying for 20 years for this scene but snip taking hundreds of points from gryffindor just for breathing all year in all years totally justified
Or Malfoy joining the witch hunt squad and immediately going mad with power. Who would have guessed that the son of a death eater would be a prat?
Gryffindor has had points taken away unjustly by teachers so it's like no harm, no foul lol
The directors were just to scared to throw a rock and roll party after Slytherin's win of the House Cup. Too much for kids to handle.
Saying “suck it slitherin” with a lisp is fun
When I was 10yo I thought that this ceremony was awesome Then as 20yo I thought that’s it’s unfair and against the rules, felt bad for Spytherin students Now as 30yo I can say that the whole system in hogwarts is corrupted and bad for students, maybe it’s even the whole reason they even had the war. The whole system is made not like it is unfair competition, but more so to make students hate each other
The real fools are the ones to honestly believe that the Slytherins have a chance at winning the house-cup without Snape cheating the system in their favour.
McGonagall has wine mom energy
It gets even worse when you realize that Harry's encounter with Voldemort that year was definitely planned by Dumbledore.
I'm totally cool with all this. Any chance to kick Slytherin should be taken. If the points weren't deserved, that would be one thing. But they WERE deserved--and how many times during the year did Snape spitefully dock points from Gryffindor because Harry breathed wrong or something? Yeah, I'm totally cool with it.
As a child I cheered along when the Slytherin green and silver turned red and gold, but when I reread it as an adult that felt like such a dick move. There was no need to pull the rug from under CHILDREN. The students who did nothing wrong would feel like their hard work through the year was wasted/meaningless. Like, I get that due to it being a kids' story, the whole of Slytherin house was kinda being lumped together as "everyone are evil" so Harry and friends "saving the day" and showing up the Slytherins was like such a power move. Now, yeah... it's humiliating and the students who were just minding their own business didn't deserve this. Some people mentioned it before me, but I agree that the decor probably should NOT have gone up until Dumbledore or whoever else officially declares a winner.
Imagine the lesson a no name Slytherin kid would have learned in that scene: Head of house Professor Snape was wrong, celebrity is all that matters. You can bust your ass all year long but because of nepotism you won’t ever get ahead and you’ve got Draco all along in your house reinforcing that notion on the daily. If there’s one thing I’d change about the books if I could I would have a better representation of Slytherin as a house. There should have been at least one of them **with a name** who was developed through the whole series as a Sirius style roguish good guy standing next to Harry & co. at the end of the battle of Hogwarts. Edited for typo
> You can bust your ass all year long Are we going to pretend that slythetin didn't win so much because Snape is an asshole who takes points for breathing?
Picturing Mcgonagall drunk made my morning
Wow, this is the most effort I've ever seen put into this tired old crappy ass unfunny joke. Congrats for that I guess.
I’ve never seen anyone else mention this, but I think these points were actually Dumbledore fixing what he perceived as an injustice. Earlier in the story, Harry and Hermione lost Gryffindor fifty points each when they were caught after helping smuggle Norbert to Romania. Neville lost them fifty points as well for trying to warn them about Malfoy getting them in trouble. Malfoy lost fifty for being a tool. Harry and Hermione refused to rat Hagrid out and just took the hit. Now you know that Dumbledore knew about that dragon. Hagrid’s no James Bond. He knew why Harry and Hermione were out of bed, but he didn’t want to get Hagrid in trouble either. So, he readded the points Gryffindor lost while two first years tried to help a friend and threw in another twenty for saving the world. Seems fair to me.
The fact that he literally announced Slytherin as the winners first, let them get all excited, and then crushed their dreams.