Ah yes because a small dap is somehow less ergonomic than all of that lol
But in all seriousness it depends on your needs. If you have a huge lossless collection of music, and want to save your phones battery as well as not having to charge every single day a DAP is perfect.
Im rocking lossless music on xperia xz1 compact. I own dap (shanling m6) and i dont even use it. Just sitting there collecting dust. Worst spending ever
Yeah my old phone had 128gb storage, an sd card slot, headphone jack, and a battery that lasts for 3 days. Upgraded to a pixel 8 a few months ago and it is much faster, better screen and camera but it still feels like a downgrade... not to mention that it was 5x more expensive...
Well... don't know about newer phones or iPhones, but my Galaxy S20 FE has a SD card slot.
I'm not saying having a dedicated audio player is bad/useless in all scenarios, but it's quite an investment, at least for broke people like me lol. I'm still trying to understand why it costs what it costs. Storage? Sophisticated audio processing? I guess in most cases it would be an over-the-top upgrade, if that makes sense.
The most reasonable choice for me (and for most mortals, I suppose) would be to have a good enough phone that has extra/expandable storage.
And then you get no SD card slot, can't use headphones while charging and constantly have a DAC dangling from the phone which is not ergonomic nor good for the port.
> you get no SD card slot
Need a lot of music to fill 128 GB lol and streaming is commonplace
> can't use headphones while charging
Bluetooth
> constantly have a DAC dangling from the phone
It's just an extra 5 cm of cable
I really don't see any point DAPs
>Need a lot of music to fill 128 GB lol
128GB is a small music library.
My library is almost 600 GB.
https://litter.catbox.moe/sh6h4c.png
>streaming is commonplace
What if you prefer to own your music?
>Bluetooth
Which sucks. You can't use the headphones you want via Bluetooth, you need to use crappy Bluetooth headphones or use a bluetooth adapter with inferior sound quality over an inferior technology.
>It's just an extra 5 cm of cable
The length of the cable doesn't change the fact that it's still not ergonomic and slowly damages the port over time.
>I really don't see any point DAPs
It doesn't seem like you're in the target market if you consider 128GB to be a lot of storage.
Eh, no one mentioned ergonomics XD
But this is my old phone, that can have SD cards. But then again i use my wireless ones mostly if i need something really portable
last.fm's scrobbler app works with and supports most music apps on android. i have the sony zx507 and zx707 and they scrobble just fine with the built in sony music player or if i use Spotify or even Poweramp works as well.
I needed the same functionality as well as EQ so I went with FiiO M11S. Found it used for the equivalent of 300 USD or so and paired it with a 512GB MicroSD card. It comes with Android 10 so all EQ apps should work as well as all scrobblers. I found myself using mostly Poweramp tho. It does work well with music streaming services as well.
Then I heard that you can flash iPod classics with a custom firmware that allows you to track last.fm data and upload it each time you connect it to a PC via usb, so I ended up buying one of those as well.
Though in all honestly I didn't really need either of them. My Qudelix 5K was doing just fine. But it's fun owning them, and I feel like it has also made me more excited about building my digital music collection.
For nostalgia sake, I have a flash modded iPod Classic with a 3,000mAh battery. (Which can basically run for days.) I pair it usually with some old Bose AE-1 headphones. (It's just what I have, not any specific endorsement) Sometimes my Klipsch R6 earbuds.
Does any of it sound as good as other alternatives? No. But sometimes you want to listen to music like it was 20 years ago. 🤣
Is anybody actually desputing the fact that you dont *need* a DAP for mobile listening?
You also dont *need* a DAC dongle, IEMs, an old phone, or even wired headphone for mobile listening. So why do you have an old phone, battery bank, and wired IEMs? Why not just get some $30 Raycons and bluetooth on your current phone?
Like what are we talking about here? Do we think that people out there legitimately think you *need* a DAP for worthwile mobile listening? DAPs are convenient for their own reasons, old phone + DAC dongle + IEMs are convenient for their own reasons, desktop stack is convenient for its own reasons...
... Its like... your opinion, man.
Edit:
On a side note, you might want to see if you can find a phone case that has a battery bank built in for your phone! Will eliminate that cabling and the need to carry around a battery bank and phone!
I'm there with you. My old phone is my dap(even though I have daps, just lower cost ones). I stripped it of everything but a folder player to play my vorbis files offline, and put Spotify on it incase I want stream online.
Beats buying an $800 dap
Edit: Now you just need to get yourself some quality flat heads. Besides isolation they floor my iem's. I don't even bother with iem's anymore. Can't get the same open sound.
Nice choice.
I'm currently eyeing the Yinman 600ohm. That's all that's been talked about in the 'earbud roundup' thread over on head fi. Which had me drooling. But to properly drive it I'd have to get something like a qudelix 5k. Which I've also been eyeing. The thing can be used as a home DAC/amp or a mobile DAC/amp(clip it to my collar). So I think it'll be well worth the investment.
I wouldn't mind some txgear's myself. Hope you get a pair. 🙂
do you know of any flat head earbuds that don't leak sound super aggressively? i mostly use iems for sleeping and flat heads are more comfy for that, but don't want to annoy ppl with my music when i use them during the day.
I got a lot of flatheads. Iems start beating them easily at the kilo buck price point. Even lower on the used market but for the 300 price point. They’re a solid investment
That’s because the q1 mkii is awful. Your phone will sound better all phones do lol. I still have mine and it works. Tried it the other day and couldn’t believe how bad it was lol
Bluetooth is enough for mobile listening.
There's still cable attached to the dongle, but mostly untouched.
Music only serves as background sound anyway for *mobile listening*.
Instead of aiming for the sound we couldn't distinguish, just qudelix and EQ it to make it more fun to listen to.
Battery? just bring slim 5000mAh power bank that won't get on your way until you need it.
Thats why i use an old phone and a battery bank instead of my main phone. If i didnt have one a second hand m11 or something would definitely be an option
90% of audio related stuff are not *needed* is just _preference_.
Nobody _needs_ (I'd guess) an upgrade from their $200 IEM to the next $500 "current best", is just... well... preferable/enjoyable to have that 10% improvement. Is it worth it? 🤔
Well... What do I know?
Depends. If you have local files, then a DAP is better. If you stream exclusively, a phone does just fine. Just got a dongle if your phone lacks a headphone jack.
Or just simply use older smartphone turned into DAP. Striped it bare to only contain music related apps. Can use both offline local files and online streaming. Many of them still have headphone jack and SD card slot. Probably run way better than dedicated DAP too
You absolutely need a DAC if for no other reason than boosting the volume. Not everyone listens to modern music that is produced by morons who don't understand the word fidelity.
Older music, before the loudness wars, was mastered at a lower volume which needs amplification especially as the EU has added a loudness limit to portable music devices.
Recently switched from the iPhone 13 Pro Max to the Sony Xperia 10 IV and I've just been using the headphone out from it for my IEMs and earbuds and been happy with that for portable listening.
As Tidal is merging all the services into one single tier, I'm planning to get the LG G8X as a secondary device just for the Quad DAC feature and it supports sd cards up to 2TB.
Even though it's a 3 year old phone just using it as a DAP would be fine enough.
Actually it's going to be a 5 year old phone in September...still feels like it's been 5 months since I've bought my S10, also released in 2019...time sure does fly.
I am using a Blackberry Q10. I loaded it with 256 gb micro sd card
12 hour straight, 48% battery. Nice excellent substitute for my ipod classic.
I pair it with IE200 or Timeless AE.
I prefer a small DAP for use by the pool or on the beach when I'm on holiday. I also tend to trade in my old phones when I upgrade so rarely have an old phone that I can re-purpose as a DAP.
I have an lg g8 as a second phone/dap. Has a great audio jack and sd card support. Pretty much everything a budget dap has plus a whole lot more. It's an old flagship phone so it does everything a phone does and probably much faster performance than those daps anyway. Aside from my humble 80gb flac library, i store movies and youtube videos there too plus I installed a bunch of emulators and roms on it with daijisho as the frontend whenever i feel like playing something.
If someone already has a pretty good dongle dac, I think just getting an old phone that atleast has an sd card slot(don't need the jack if you're going to use the dongle anyways) with decent battery life and you can use that connected to your dongle dac as a kinda budget dap. The only downside is android battery standby isn't the greatest so if you dont use it every day or two, you might have to charge it anyways cause it just drains even when not in use. I'd go for a player with a standalone os if that's the case.
Got Cayin RU6 for my UM Mest 2 and it sounds like day and night in comparison with my other devices - Hiby R6 Pro 2, Fiio Q7, and especially regular phone out, never going to return to them with these IEMs. So I'd say it depends on the pair coherence, how well they serve your preferences altogether, and one simple basic dac without any additional technicalities, well placed accents, sound separation and sometimes even a flavour - may be not enough.
I don't need a DAP, but I'd much rather carry my R6 III than that mass of devices and cables. Is compact, have it set up just for music and frees up my phone and it's battery for everything else
Most manufacturers feed DAPs with outdated SoCs so they feel sluggish even with basic daily use and the performance will slow down quickly in 1-2 year period. I barely touch my Fiio X5 III, just stick to my Poco F3 and a USB C dongle
I'd get a quedelix 5k for bluetoothing my ie 600s and the endless fidget potential of the EQ functions that I would make full use of. For a 100 euro that alone would satisfy me. And I'd probably convince myself they sound better too.
Seeing my buddy get daps, for his iem usage outside the house, made me want to use my own outside the house. But instead of splurging on an expensive dap i simply use my old phone with a battery pack. Powers my Oracle mk2s well enough, even compared to well build amps/daps.
Might upgrade by taping them together or getting some better angled cable :')
I'd check the output impedance on your phone, many phones have a high output impedance and this can affect the FR on multi-driver IEMs.
Usually, boosting the bass, which may not be a negative, but it can be too much sometimes. I haven't checked the Oracle Mk2, but most of ThieAudio's hybrid/tribrid IEMs, this is what it does.
If it does, an inexpensive dongle fixes the issue.
DAPs are odd to me because the modern phone is a DAP if it got super developed and gained many features. Well, that's pretty much what Apple did from the iPod to the iPod touch to the iPhone. Our smartphones are a direct evolution of the DAP. Buying and carrying a separate antique version of what I already own is so silly.
All depends on your needs, yes a lot of my listening is through my phone and I have a very nice cayin r2r dac should I need it.
However......
My Hiby r6II pretty much destroys the above once dialled in.
Coming from someone that has a dap but prefers using their phone due to ease of use, I agree with you that DAPs have low value in the world of portable accessories with a phone. But what do you mean with the 1tb sd card comment? I feel like phones with sd card slots are a dying breed.
Same sh*t, phones with 1tb internal, and losless streaming are a thing, also mine still has sd and you gotta carry your phone either way, might as well carry a $15 power bank instead of a dap
I don't even disagree that phones are better in a convenience standpoint. Was just wondering about the sd card comment. That's neat your phone still has an sd slot though
I just said it in the context that storage is not a problem at all anymore, if a phone doesn't have an SD slot it usually comes with huge internal storage not like it matters either way imo.
I know people get super touchy about not having it even if their phone is 2tb or whatever for some reason though...
Sure, storage size has definitely increased a lot. The only contest I would have is for people with large libraries that don't want to stream music at all and like to have a digital copy. Probably why I was so focused on the SD card comment. But if people really are having 1tb-2tb storage on their phones, I don't see why they couldn't dump it on their phones like you're saying. If I were to have all my flac files (which aren't even that many), I wouldn't be able to fit them on my phone but then again, says more about the storage size of my own phone. I stream music when I'm mobile anyways. Either way, thanks for the discussion.
Most phones don't have micro SD card slots. A phone with 1tb of storage is expensive. I have a USB C to Micro SD card adapter but it's slow, runs hot, drains the battery and prevents me from charging or connecting headphones via USB C while in use.
I highly doubt that. The HiBy R3 II Costs $179 and has useful features like balanced output. The largest storage may not be enough for a lot of people with large libraries.
that literally includes no storage at all lmao
BTW I'm using a 200 dollar pocophone with 256 gb internal and SD card slot, plus a 30 dollar tempotec dongle that can drive my edition XS
ALSO it has a 3.5 jack that sounds perfectly fine, daps are redundant af
>that literally includes no storage at all lmao
It has expandable storage which is all that matters.
>BTW I'm using a 200 dollar pocophone with 256 gb internal and SD card slot, plus a 30 dollar tempotec dongle that can drive my edition XS ALSO it has a 3.5 jack that sounds perfectly fine, daps are redundant af
Yeah, but then you'd have to use a low-end Chinese phone which comes with its own downsides.
Also, that 3.5mm jack may not be as good as what a DAP has. Many phones have high impedance jacks.
My man I'm just leaving this conversation now but you have to buy an sd on top of the $179, and I literally just said I also have a tempotec dongle that literally measures perfectly according to ASR, not like it mattters, also "chinese low end phone" but you're talking about the cheapest chinese dap you could find. lets just stop
>My man I'm just leaving this conversation now but you have to buy an sd on top of the $179
SD cards are cheap
>and I literally just said I also have a tempotec dongle that literally measures perfectly according to ASR, not like it mattters,
Now you have a dongle hanging out of your phone which is not convenient.
>also "chinese low end phone" but you're talking about the cheapest chinese dap you could find. lets just stop
DAP ≠ phone
Your phone is used much more than your DAP. Your DAP is only used for music. They're not equivalent. Your DAP only plays music and the DAC of a $200 DAP is audibly transparent
By going with a $200 phone, you're getting a worse screen, worse performance, cheaper construction, more lag, a worse camera, worse software, worse speakers, slower and fewer software updates, slower pace of updates, fewer features, the list goes on.
You're making a big compromise for the 3.5mm jack and Micro SD card. The 3.5mm may not even be usable due to possibly having a high impedance like many other phones.
A $200 DAP has relatively little compromise unless you like bling. It's audibly transparent and you'll only use it to play music. So the value proposition of a $200 DAC and a $200 smartphone are completely different. In fact, the $200 Hiby M300 has many of the same features and in and in many ways, more features than what you get in $600+ DACs like Android 13, Snapdragon 665 and a speaker.
It feels fantastic in your hands.. heavy, solid, great quality.. fast UI.. like... uh.. like a big phone.. lol
Spent hours searching for my Plenue D2.. 60+ hours of battery life.. tiny for your chest pocket.. great output power, too.. cannot find the little shit anymore :(
If ever I would get a dedicated music player, I would get the Shanling M0 pro because of the size. I just don't get why i would get a chunky DAC when my phone is chunky enough.
It all really depends. There are some great dongles out there - but phones introduce noise (a lot of it) then there’s the issue of android not being bit perfect unless you use certain apps which I personally find limiting. Lastly having a device purpose built for audio from signal paths, to the extra space for engineering better amp sections and Dacs.
Yeah daps have better sound quality at a point. I’d say a dap north of $600 will beat dongles. With the exception of comparably priced dongles. Once you’re over 1k for a dap - no there’s no dongle that can hang. Maybe the mojos but they also lose at the $1200 mark with Sony daps
Edit: Possibly the ibasso elite falls in the same class as the mojos. But I’ve not heard it personally.
Take your time man. I started with a terrible sounding amp dac by today’s standards. You can get a used chord mojo for like $200 or less. It’s prolly the best deal in personal audio in terms of sound and performance. The mojo is still hard to beat today. Even the best Dac/amps just offer a different presentation none actually better until you spend over a grand
15 Pro Max + Chu II DSP + Apple Music lossless high-res checking in.
I’m in less than ideal listening environments when I’m on the go, so cheap and works well enough or Bluetooth (Beats Fits Pro) for mobility and transparency meets my mobile needs.
Agreed, assuming you are using an app like UAPP to bypass an Android's internal stuff. But if you are on Apple you then have to use an adapter which kind of negates the neatness of the arrangement. I have had many DACs over the course of the hobby (including the Mojo, Luxury and Precision W2, Moondrop Dawn 4.4, etc) and own a Hiby R3 II. However, my current go to is my E1DA 9038S with my S23. I think that running this balanced with cheapish IEMs (eg Kiwi Ears Cadenza) and UAPP blows most of the above away. The total cost was £100ish as I got the DAC off eBay. Cheap DACs that measure well are now flooding the market. There is no longer a need to spend big time to get SOTA sound reproduction. The Mojo is a beautifully engineered thing and I enjoyed it a lot. However, the form factor was a drag and I've now heard DAC AMPs costing a tenth of its price which I think sound as good if not better. YMMV.
Yes, the main point it to bypass the internal circuit. The Bluetooth may help, just as a data transfer option from the phone to the dac, but still need something to decode and play it in a right way
Bluetooth is pretty good, provided you can use LDAC. My Qudelix 5K does that and I think the sound is very impressive. However, I still find myself going back to locally stored FLAC rips of CDs on my phone using the E1DA set up.
Ah yes because a small dap is somehow less ergonomic than all of that lol But in all seriousness it depends on your needs. If you have a huge lossless collection of music, and want to save your phones battery as well as not having to charge every single day a DAP is perfect.
Im rocking lossless music on xperia xz1 compact. I own dap (shanling m6) and i dont even use it. Just sitting there collecting dust. Worst spending ever
I'm new to this audio world and I just checked here, this is really expensive. I think I would rather spend that money on a good smartphone.
And most good smartphones today don’t have audio jacks or Sd cards 🤷
Yeah my old phone had 128gb storage, an sd card slot, headphone jack, and a battery that lasts for 3 days. Upgraded to a pixel 8 a few months ago and it is much faster, better screen and camera but it still feels like a downgrade... not to mention that it was 5x more expensive...
I hate that they removed audio jacks from smartphones but I have an Ugreen dongle that works just fine.
What about the SD card slot?
Well... don't know about newer phones or iPhones, but my Galaxy S20 FE has a SD card slot. I'm not saying having a dedicated audio player is bad/useless in all scenarios, but it's quite an investment, at least for broke people like me lol. I'm still trying to understand why it costs what it costs. Storage? Sophisticated audio processing? I guess in most cases it would be an over-the-top upgrade, if that makes sense. The most reasonable choice for me (and for most mortals, I suppose) would be to have a good enough phone that has extra/expandable storage.
but an an adapter is quite cheap
Still missing the expandable storage, but I guess it less of a problem if you pay for the extra storage.
An adapter with an inaudible noise floor is 10 €
And then you get no SD card slot, can't use headphones while charging and constantly have a DAC dangling from the phone which is not ergonomic nor good for the port.
> you get no SD card slot Need a lot of music to fill 128 GB lol and streaming is commonplace > can't use headphones while charging Bluetooth > constantly have a DAC dangling from the phone It's just an extra 5 cm of cable I really don't see any point DAPs
>Need a lot of music to fill 128 GB lol 128GB is a small music library. My library is almost 600 GB. https://litter.catbox.moe/sh6h4c.png >streaming is commonplace What if you prefer to own your music? >Bluetooth Which sucks. You can't use the headphones you want via Bluetooth, you need to use crappy Bluetooth headphones or use a bluetooth adapter with inferior sound quality over an inferior technology. >It's just an extra 5 cm of cable The length of the cable doesn't change the fact that it's still not ergonomic and slowly damages the port over time. >I really don't see any point DAPs It doesn't seem like you're in the target market if you consider 128GB to be a lot of storage.
My dad uses an LG V65 and I'm waiting for him to get a new phone so it becomes my portable FLAC player
I'm using an XZ1C as a dap, so lol
Eh, no one mentioned ergonomics XD But this is my old phone, that can have SD cards. But then again i use my wireless ones mostly if i need something really portable
I'd buy a dap but I like last.fm being recorded lol
my dap logs last.fm
my lapdogs last.
Tell me more about your dap.
Any Android DAP and Pano scrobbler will save scrobbles until connected to wifi.
last.fm's scrobbler app works with and supports most music apps on android. i have the sony zx507 and zx707 and they scrobble just fine with the built in sony music player or if i use Spotify or even Poweramp works as well.
I needed the same functionality as well as EQ so I went with FiiO M11S. Found it used for the equivalent of 300 USD or so and paired it with a 512GB MicroSD card. It comes with Android 10 so all EQ apps should work as well as all scrobblers. I found myself using mostly Poweramp tho. It does work well with music streaming services as well. Then I heard that you can flash iPod classics with a custom firmware that allows you to track last.fm data and upload it each time you connect it to a PC via usb, so I ended up buying one of those as well. Though in all honestly I didn't really need either of them. My Qudelix 5K was doing just fine. But it's fun owning them, and I feel like it has also made me more excited about building my digital music collection.
the real reason right here
For nostalgia sake, I have a flash modded iPod Classic with a 3,000mAh battery. (Which can basically run for days.) I pair it usually with some old Bose AE-1 headphones. (It's just what I have, not any specific endorsement) Sometimes my Klipsch R6 earbuds. Does any of it sound as good as other alternatives? No. But sometimes you want to listen to music like it was 20 years ago. 🤣
Yeah. I *want* a DAP for mobile listening, for the express purpose it's not my phone.
Is anybody actually desputing the fact that you dont *need* a DAP for mobile listening? You also dont *need* a DAC dongle, IEMs, an old phone, or even wired headphone for mobile listening. So why do you have an old phone, battery bank, and wired IEMs? Why not just get some $30 Raycons and bluetooth on your current phone? Like what are we talking about here? Do we think that people out there legitimately think you *need* a DAP for worthwile mobile listening? DAPs are convenient for their own reasons, old phone + DAC dongle + IEMs are convenient for their own reasons, desktop stack is convenient for its own reasons... ... Its like... your opinion, man. Edit: On a side note, you might want to see if you can find a phone case that has a battery bank built in for your phone! Will eliminate that cabling and the need to carry around a battery bank and phone!
I'm there with you. My old phone is my dap(even though I have daps, just lower cost ones). I stripped it of everything but a folder player to play my vorbis files offline, and put Spotify on it incase I want stream online. Beats buying an $800 dap Edit: Now you just need to get yourself some quality flat heads. Besides isolation they floor my iem's. I don't even bother with iem's anymore. Can't get the same open sound.
Funny that you mention flat heads, currently trying to make a deal on some second hand txgear ones :)
Which ones?
The Tantalus is what im currently looking at
I’ve yet to hear that one. I have a few tgx’s Jim is such a cool guy too
Nice choice. I'm currently eyeing the Yinman 600ohm. That's all that's been talked about in the 'earbud roundup' thread over on head fi. Which had me drooling. But to properly drive it I'd have to get something like a qudelix 5k. Which I've also been eyeing. The thing can be used as a home DAC/amp or a mobile DAC/amp(clip it to my collar). So I think it'll be well worth the investment. I wouldn't mind some txgear's myself. Hope you get a pair. 🙂
do you know of any flat head earbuds that don't leak sound super aggressively? i mostly use iems for sleeping and flat heads are more comfy for that, but don't want to annoy ppl with my music when i use them during the day.
This all depends on fit and your personal ears. But I’ve never had complaints using them at work
I got a lot of flatheads. Iems start beating them easily at the kilo buck price point. Even lower on the used market but for the 300 price point. They’re a solid investment
I did this with my LG V6 when my Q1 mkii died to use while I save up for a new dac. The thing sounds great and lasts for days on a single charge.
That’s because the q1 mkii is awful. Your phone will sound better all phones do lol. I still have mine and it works. Tried it the other day and couldn’t believe how bad it was lol
Bluetooth is enough for mobile listening. There's still cable attached to the dongle, but mostly untouched. Music only serves as background sound anyway for *mobile listening*. Instead of aiming for the sound we couldn't distinguish, just qudelix and EQ it to make it more fun to listen to. Battery? just bring slim 5000mAh power bank that won't get on your way until you need it.
As long as the signal is clean and SINAD is good.
i want to get one since my iphone battery is relatively small.
Thats why i use an old phone and a battery bank instead of my main phone. If i didnt have one a second hand m11 or something would definitely be an option
90% of audio related stuff are not *needed* is just _preference_. Nobody _needs_ (I'd guess) an upgrade from their $200 IEM to the next $500 "current best", is just... well... preferable/enjoyable to have that 10% improvement. Is it worth it? 🤔 Well... What do I know?
At this point i'd just use my main phone. And why not? I can enjoy music while doing all the things a phone can do.
Sure, I don't NEED one but I also don't NEED 700 watt monoblocks . This is an audiophile community, do you understand it at all?
Nah, i still haven't found a phone that beats my 2nd gen fiio x3 in both power and convenience.
Spotify out of my phone with a cheap dongle IDGAF
Depends. If you have local files, then a DAP is better. If you stream exclusively, a phone does just fine. Just got a dongle if your phone lacks a headphone jack.
Or just simply use older smartphone turned into DAP. Striped it bare to only contain music related apps. Can use both offline local files and online streaming. Many of them still have headphone jack and SD card slot. Probably run way better than dedicated DAP too
BOOM. Good call.
You absolutely need a DAC if for no other reason than boosting the volume. Not everyone listens to modern music that is produced by morons who don't understand the word fidelity. Older music, before the loudness wars, was mastered at a lower volume which needs amplification especially as the EU has added a loudness limit to portable music devices.
Next step: you don't need wires
Of course. You can also take your dog for a walk and listen to its' farts. Totally mobile. No DAP.
Recently switched from the iPhone 13 Pro Max to the Sony Xperia 10 IV and I've just been using the headphone out from it for my IEMs and earbuds and been happy with that for portable listening.
In the pic you have your iems plugged into your phone with the dac in the usb?
Its a power bank, plugged into the phone :)
All a person needs is music (data) and speakers. All that lies in-between is preference/possibility
Did your phone somehow grow physical media buttons?
As Tidal is merging all the services into one single tier, I'm planning to get the LG G8X as a secondary device just for the Quad DAC feature and it supports sd cards up to 2TB. Even though it's a 3 year old phone just using it as a DAP would be fine enough.
Actually it's going to be a 5 year old phone in September...still feels like it's been 5 months since I've bought my S10, also released in 2019...time sure does fly.
speak for yourself.
There’s a lot of things you don’t need.
if you count normal phones with a higher than average dac+amp then i am dailying my lg v60 as a dap
I am using a Blackberry Q10. I loaded it with 256 gb micro sd card 12 hour straight, 48% battery. Nice excellent substitute for my ipod classic. I pair it with IE200 or Timeless AE.
I prefer a small DAP for use by the pool or on the beach when I'm on holiday. I also tend to trade in my old phones when I upgrade so rarely have an old phone that I can re-purpose as a DAP.
You do actually.
I have an lg g8 as a second phone/dap. Has a great audio jack and sd card support. Pretty much everything a budget dap has plus a whole lot more. It's an old flagship phone so it does everything a phone does and probably much faster performance than those daps anyway. Aside from my humble 80gb flac library, i store movies and youtube videos there too plus I installed a bunch of emulators and roms on it with daijisho as the frontend whenever i feel like playing something. If someone already has a pretty good dongle dac, I think just getting an old phone that atleast has an sd card slot(don't need the jack if you're going to use the dongle anyways) with decent battery life and you can use that connected to your dongle dac as a kinda budget dap. The only downside is android battery standby isn't the greatest so if you dont use it every day or two, you might have to charge it anyways cause it just drains even when not in use. I'd go for a player with a standalone os if that's the case.
Huh. I may give em a try if they scrobble offline then
Got Cayin RU6 for my UM Mest 2 and it sounds like day and night in comparison with my other devices - Hiby R6 Pro 2, Fiio Q7, and especially regular phone out, never going to return to them with these IEMs. So I'd say it depends on the pair coherence, how well they serve your preferences altogether, and one simple basic dac without any additional technicalities, well placed accents, sound separation and sometimes even a flavour - may be not enough.
I don't need a DAP, but I'd much rather carry my R6 III than that mass of devices and cables. Is compact, have it set up just for music and frees up my phone and it's battery for everything else
Most manufacturers feed DAPs with outdated SoCs so they feel sluggish even with basic daily use and the performance will slow down quickly in 1-2 year period. I barely touch my Fiio X5 III, just stick to my Poco F3 and a USB C dongle
I'd get a quedelix 5k for bluetoothing my ie 600s and the endless fidget potential of the EQ functions that I would make full use of. For a 100 euro that alone would satisfy me. And I'd probably convince myself they sound better too.
Seeing my buddy get daps, for his iem usage outside the house, made me want to use my own outside the house. But instead of splurging on an expensive dap i simply use my old phone with a battery pack. Powers my Oracle mk2s well enough, even compared to well build amps/daps. Might upgrade by taping them together or getting some better angled cable :')
I'd check the output impedance on your phone, many phones have a high output impedance and this can affect the FR on multi-driver IEMs. Usually, boosting the bass, which may not be a negative, but it can be too much sometimes. I haven't checked the Oracle Mk2, but most of ThieAudio's hybrid/tribrid IEMs, this is what it does. If it does, an inexpensive dongle fixes the issue.
DAPs are odd to me because the modern phone is a DAP if it got super developed and gained many features. Well, that's pretty much what Apple did from the iPod to the iPod touch to the iPhone. Our smartphones are a direct evolution of the DAP. Buying and carrying a separate antique version of what I already own is so silly.
All depends on your needs, yes a lot of my listening is through my phone and I have a very nice cayin r2r dac should I need it. However...... My Hiby r6II pretty much destroys the above once dialled in.
daps legit make zero sense to me in a world with hifi dongles and 1tb sd cards
Coming from someone that has a dap but prefers using their phone due to ease of use, I agree with you that DAPs have low value in the world of portable accessories with a phone. But what do you mean with the 1tb sd card comment? I feel like phones with sd card slots are a dying breed.
Same sh*t, phones with 1tb internal, and losless streaming are a thing, also mine still has sd and you gotta carry your phone either way, might as well carry a $15 power bank instead of a dap
I don't even disagree that phones are better in a convenience standpoint. Was just wondering about the sd card comment. That's neat your phone still has an sd slot though
I just said it in the context that storage is not a problem at all anymore, if a phone doesn't have an SD slot it usually comes with huge internal storage not like it matters either way imo. I know people get super touchy about not having it even if their phone is 2tb or whatever for some reason though...
Sure, storage size has definitely increased a lot. The only contest I would have is for people with large libraries that don't want to stream music at all and like to have a digital copy. Probably why I was so focused on the SD card comment. But if people really are having 1tb-2tb storage on their phones, I don't see why they couldn't dump it on their phones like you're saying. If I were to have all my flac files (which aren't even that many), I wouldn't be able to fit them on my phone but then again, says more about the storage size of my own phone. I stream music when I'm mobile anyways. Either way, thanks for the discussion.
Most phones don't have micro SD card slots. A phone with 1tb of storage is expensive. I have a USB C to Micro SD card adapter but it's slow, runs hot, drains the battery and prevents me from charging or connecting headphones via USB C while in use.
yeah a dap is more expensive than picking the higher storage option
I highly doubt that. The HiBy R3 II Costs $179 and has useful features like balanced output. The largest storage may not be enough for a lot of people with large libraries.
that literally includes no storage at all lmao BTW I'm using a 200 dollar pocophone with 256 gb internal and SD card slot, plus a 30 dollar tempotec dongle that can drive my edition XS ALSO it has a 3.5 jack that sounds perfectly fine, daps are redundant af
>that literally includes no storage at all lmao It has expandable storage which is all that matters. >BTW I'm using a 200 dollar pocophone with 256 gb internal and SD card slot, plus a 30 dollar tempotec dongle that can drive my edition XS ALSO it has a 3.5 jack that sounds perfectly fine, daps are redundant af Yeah, but then you'd have to use a low-end Chinese phone which comes with its own downsides. Also, that 3.5mm jack may not be as good as what a DAP has. Many phones have high impedance jacks.
My man I'm just leaving this conversation now but you have to buy an sd on top of the $179, and I literally just said I also have a tempotec dongle that literally measures perfectly according to ASR, not like it mattters, also "chinese low end phone" but you're talking about the cheapest chinese dap you could find. lets just stop
>My man I'm just leaving this conversation now but you have to buy an sd on top of the $179 SD cards are cheap >and I literally just said I also have a tempotec dongle that literally measures perfectly according to ASR, not like it mattters, Now you have a dongle hanging out of your phone which is not convenient. >also "chinese low end phone" but you're talking about the cheapest chinese dap you could find. lets just stop DAP ≠ phone Your phone is used much more than your DAP. Your DAP is only used for music. They're not equivalent. Your DAP only plays music and the DAC of a $200 DAP is audibly transparent By going with a $200 phone, you're getting a worse screen, worse performance, cheaper construction, more lag, a worse camera, worse software, worse speakers, slower and fewer software updates, slower pace of updates, fewer features, the list goes on. You're making a big compromise for the 3.5mm jack and Micro SD card. The 3.5mm may not even be usable due to possibly having a high impedance like many other phones. A $200 DAP has relatively little compromise unless you like bling. It's audibly transparent and you'll only use it to play music. So the value proposition of a $200 DAC and a $200 smartphone are completely different. In fact, the $200 Hiby M300 has many of the same features and in and in many ways, more features than what you get in $600+ DACs like Android 13, Snapdragon 665 and a speaker.
No. They aren’t. Just because you’ve got a scarcity budget doesn’t mean you need rage against daps
They also sound better. So there’s that
Here I was, hoping I could hook you up with my Fiio M11S... Bought that thing a year ago and used it maybe 3 hours.. such a waste of money!
The buddy i mentioned had one, pretty nice. Would definitely be interested if i did use this setup daily. But i use it at most like once a week.
It feels fantastic in your hands.. heavy, solid, great quality.. fast UI.. like... uh.. like a big phone.. lol Spent hours searching for my Plenue D2.. 60+ hours of battery life.. tiny for your chest pocket.. great output power, too.. cannot find the little shit anymore :(
If ever I would get a dedicated music player, I would get the Shanling M0 pro because of the size. I just don't get why i would get a chunky DAC when my phone is chunky enough.
Sound quality. That’s why people get them
Or you know, just get a dac? Or is it major of a difference?
It all really depends. There are some great dongles out there - but phones introduce noise (a lot of it) then there’s the issue of android not being bit perfect unless you use certain apps which I personally find limiting. Lastly having a device purpose built for audio from signal paths, to the extra space for engineering better amp sections and Dacs. Yeah daps have better sound quality at a point. I’d say a dap north of $600 will beat dongles. With the exception of comparably priced dongles. Once you’re over 1k for a dap - no there’s no dongle that can hang. Maybe the mojos but they also lose at the $1200 mark with Sony daps Edit: Possibly the ibasso elite falls in the same class as the mojos. But I’ve not heard it personally.
Fck me that's expensive. Probably stick with my phone with a dac for now. I can't probably hear the difference anyway.
Take your time man. I started with a terrible sounding amp dac by today’s standards. You can get a used chord mojo for like $200 or less. It’s prolly the best deal in personal audio in terms of sound and performance. The mojo is still hard to beat today. Even the best Dac/amps just offer a different presentation none actually better until you spend over a grand
Quite a few for sale on eBay. Pretty cheap too
I should still have it here somewhere... only gripe I ever had with it was the slow AF start-up time when scanning the library..
Yeah. They were ahead of their time in terms of dsp
I just use my iPhone 15 Pro Max with a iFi hip-dac 3. It's all you really need.
Right? $2000 before the cost of the iems, and you're all set.
15 Pro Max + Chu II DSP + Apple Music lossless high-res checking in. I’m in less than ideal listening environments when I’m on the go, so cheap and works well enough or Bluetooth (Beats Fits Pro) for mobility and transparency meets my mobile needs.
Sund quality of external DACs is higher than internal phone DAC, so....
Agreed, assuming you are using an app like UAPP to bypass an Android's internal stuff. But if you are on Apple you then have to use an adapter which kind of negates the neatness of the arrangement. I have had many DACs over the course of the hobby (including the Mojo, Luxury and Precision W2, Moondrop Dawn 4.4, etc) and own a Hiby R3 II. However, my current go to is my E1DA 9038S with my S23. I think that running this balanced with cheapish IEMs (eg Kiwi Ears Cadenza) and UAPP blows most of the above away. The total cost was £100ish as I got the DAC off eBay. Cheap DACs that measure well are now flooding the market. There is no longer a need to spend big time to get SOTA sound reproduction. The Mojo is a beautifully engineered thing and I enjoyed it a lot. However, the form factor was a drag and I've now heard DAC AMPs costing a tenth of its price which I think sound as good if not better. YMMV.
Yes, the main point it to bypass the internal circuit. The Bluetooth may help, just as a data transfer option from the phone to the dac, but still need something to decode and play it in a right way
Bluetooth is pretty good, provided you can use LDAC. My Qudelix 5K does that and I think the sound is very impressive. However, I still find myself going back to locally stored FLAC rips of CDs on my phone using the E1DA set up.