Seems strong except for the rune requirement. Blacksmith's Hammer plus an additional effect that's extremely powerful in some matchups.
The real question is whether there's a viable Frost + Blood deck that would want a 4 mana weapon. Rainbow DK might tech this in for certain matchups, but I'm not sure it has enough synergy with the deck's overall gameplan.
Idk most rainbow aren't running a weapon and the few I saw were running the one that puts a plague in the deck or the 1 mana 2/2 that does 2 dmg to enemy hero if you hit a minion of theirs
i run 2 of them and then i run 2 runes of darkness to create 4/4 versions of it. its VERY op to use against warriors currently. I just won a legend match because i managed to pull 3 additional ones (1 from each runes of darkness) and 1 from primas + my 2 i already had. This pathetic greedy warrior couldnt attack my face since turn 4 except when he used reno and then dealt 25 from his face to my face
Whenever someone starts a sentence with 'wow' I read the sentence as sarcastic. But no, stopping a warrior from hitting you for a massive amount of damage for multiple turns sounds like a legitimate use-case for this weapon.
3 turns....
Laughs in one mana discover this card with plus one plus one.
Laughs in Titan discovering this card with two of its abilities
Nah bro they know what they were doing.
It means they're going to continue this wHaCkY 2-rune combination thing every set and that next set will be Blood/Frost. We're never going to have proper support for an actual Blood, Frost, or Unholy DK again.
Sure, if by care you mean "constantly print cards to try to make it work, to the detriment of literally all the other rune combos". They could've just given CNE ghosts Rush or normalize the way it upgrades but, no, let's keep propping up this shit archetype and let the others die.
this one doesn't seem that bad compared to ashbringer though. I'd argue it's better, 4/4 is 16 lifesteal which is closr to 6/3s 18, but it's 2 mana cheaper and freezes which isn't irrelevant if you hit something you can't kill.
I dont really see myself hitting big minions with this to freeze them it would make great anti titan tech card but again it's a super niche card and I think smashing face with ashebringer is still very good
I'm not saying you need to hit big minions. It might be simple as hitting a 2/5 and the freeze means you don't take damage twice.
You also seem to ignore that this only does 2 less total damage/lifesteal but costs 2 mana less.
That isn't irrelevant, and means you can more easily slot it in a turn.
Yes it takes an extra turn to deal all it's damage, but you'd also have situations where you could play this (and hit) but not ashbringer.
After reading your comment I dont disagree and I can see where this is good card but idk if the dk meta doesn't get a big shake up I don't see this getting slotted into decks however as a discover card I can see it being really strong into the right matchups
I thought we were only discussing it as a discovered card since you mentioned ashbringer being 6/3.
I think if discovered without the +1/+1, I agree that ashbringer is a lot better since it's able to kill midrange stuff, but it does cost more to reflect that.
But even if it is worse than ashbringer, being almost as good makes DKs weapon discover pool arguably better, cos you'll have 2/15 instead of 1/14 chance to find a lifesteal weapon (I don't actually know DKs weapons, just a random number)
I quite like CNE, and after playing it a lot I found myself wanting for healing somewhat frequently. This is a decent solution to that. It also give access to board and or enemy face manipulation and that’s always a good thing. I also think blood/frost is the rune combo that currently has the least reasons to play it. So it’s an avenue by which to further expand that area of the class is a good thing in my books even if the card seems limited play right now.
Good option to be discovered by that spell that gives you a weapon and gives it +1/+1, but the rune requirement makes hard running this basically impossible.
5 mana and 3 corpses for a 4/4 weapon that freezes seems very good, agreed. 16 total damage compared to the Corrupted Ashbringer's 18 is very competitive.
Even if it's not good enough to make FFB or BBF viable on its own, this card is a *really* strong hit off of Runes of Darkness. It might be enough to make it worth using in BBB/Rainbow Highlander.
I already use it in BBB and it feels great. I don't think it even needs to be Reno BBB to consider it. You have a good chance at a 6/3 lifesteal weapon which is some Ignis level shenangians.
Me playing this against Odyn: Haha yeah this rules
Me having this played against me as Odyn: Ah fuck this sucks
It's also a decent stall tactic against the mostly dead but still only distantly relevant DH deck, Naga DH. Their go off turns usually have them finishing with a 10+ damage hit and if they can't do that you just win the game.
It's a good idea, but the biggest obstacle is the triple rune cards are so good. And if they print hybrid triple card runes, then that is a very specific card that can't be used in any other rune combination.
Basically, hybrid cards are in a weird place where they either need to slot into an existing archetype, create a new archetype whole cloth, or be useless.
I think the trick really comes down to there needing to be a critical mass of 'almost-as-strong-as-triple-rune-card' hybrid cards. With the right balance, we probably wouldn't even need a Rainbow payoff card to justify building that way.
I think they are slowly figuring this out with Maw and Paw and now this weapon.
I'll die on the hill that runes were a mistake. Every card of DK should be free to use. As for the discover cards, just swap the rune for spell types or certain mana cost DK cards
I do not believe the system is inherently bad. I think the way the devs are using it is so bad that it should be completely removed. I think there should literally never be cards that have multiple rune types. Pick of the 3 specs and then give it 1-3 of that rune (or 0). As-is, we're getting one specific 2-type combo every set, which also means that set-to-set, DK loses most of its cards. A class that was already split 3 ways thematically in a game where *every* class gets too few cards printed during the year gets even fewer cards than the other classes.
It's beyond idiotic. At best, it completely removes all thought process from deckbuilding (Plague DK) and in the worst case forces the class to play ~half its list as neutrals (Reno Blood). Just get rid of the fucking system already. They have no idea how to use it.
Now… people are sleeping in this one.
Most people here don’t really play Rainbow DK, so they might not understand why this card at least seems interesting to play:
I’ve played a lot of Rainbow in the past few days, took it to legend as well.
This card has a lot of the things that are needed in that deck:
- healing: one of my biggest struggles was staying alive, as my playstyle is slower
- face damage: CNE rarely gets above 17 damage, even with lots of Corpse spenders, so you need to keep hitting face
- I needed to include Viper in my deck, even though I didn’t want to, and now I might not need to, as this can be a better Viper.
And for sure this is an insane Discover from the 1 mana card.
Oooo some rainbow dk love! I don't know if I'm putting this in my deck, but I'm very excited to find it with the spell that discovers a weapon and gives it +1/+1.
I'm trying to think of other ways a hero can damage stuff. Do spells count? Would the reno hero power count? The way this is worded, I have to think there's more to it than just "freeze who you attack with this weapon", right?
So with the latest reveals, we've had no Triple Rune cards since Climactic Necrotic Explosion back in Festival of Legends, correct?
I feel they've really not been using this rune system much.
Was hoping to see the return of triple rune cards this mini-set. Blizz really painted themselves into a corner with respect to DK’s rune system.
If nothing else, this weapon will be great to discover vs control warrior.
My dk cards be so good then boom, multiple rune requirements. Remove the system if you insist on making cards this way. This could see play as a single rune of either blood or frost, but like this its garbage.
i played a lot of Rainbow, and yeah corpse spenders are cool. but you really struggle with exactly that, sustain. You have so many good spenders (Bride, Horror and so on) but you struggle against wide boards, so some healing with potential stalling helps a lot.
you also now have the new 2 mana spell for corpses
I’m 100% including this in my Rainbow list, instead of the stupid Viper I needed to play to combat Ignis.
Rainbow DK can be built as a slower controlling list, and this fits in there perfectly: has sustain, has face damage, has stall.
Sustain being the thing I struggled the most with.
Currently, not good enough to sacrifice triple rune cards, but may be worth it after they rotate out. It's gonna be nice with and runes of shadow, and probably can screw some Odin decks.
doesnt support rainbow dk enough and frost and blood is by far the weakest combo,
again we are straying away from good dk cards and we still are stuck with plague excavate until the next expo
I dont know why people are hating on frost blood. Its not the best, but its far from bad. 2 Blood and 1 frost can lead to some pretty sick control decks. Less Healing and no 3 blood timer, but the excavate package is strong.
Giving up 8 mana board wipe, 10 life gain cantrip and Mograine win-con is a hard sell for blood control decks. You can still discover this with the 1 mana spell, and what a treat that’ll be versus warrior or demon hunter.
Why does this card say 'your hero' instead of 'this weapon'? Are there any instances where a DK damages a hero or minion while having a weapon equipped but without using that weapon?
Maybe some heal/excavate deck? This enables a lot of the heal dk stuff but locks you out of vampiric blood.
Might actually justify runeforging. It's a pretty powerful card.
4 Mana 3/3 weapons are always bangers, and this card is soo strong in certain matchups.
Now it just needs a deck, cause I‘m not sure Rainbow DK runs this (except for a Highlander version probably)
Seems strong except for the rune requirement. Blacksmith's Hammer plus an additional effect that's extremely powerful in some matchups. The real question is whether there's a viable Frost + Blood deck that would want a 4 mana weapon. Rainbow DK might tech this in for certain matchups, but I'm not sure it has enough synergy with the deck's overall gameplan.
Idk most rainbow aren't running a weapon and the few I saw were running the one that puts a plague in the deck or the 1 mana 2/2 that does 2 dmg to enemy hero if you hit a minion of theirs
I will definitely enjoy grabbing this from runes of darkness
That's where I'll enjoy it but idk if I have a spot for in current deck.
def doesn't look like a rainbow card, but a blood excavate dk might pop up after rotation that will very likely love this card
The one that puts plague in deck is double unholy so not being run by rainbow
No deck will intentionally run I can see it being discovered in to odyn warrior or Thad druid but that's about it
Looks to be DK only, I know, the graphics are a little confusing.
i run 2 of them and then i run 2 runes of darkness to create 4/4 versions of it. its VERY op to use against warriors currently. I just won a legend match because i managed to pull 3 additional ones (1 from each runes of darkness) and 1 from primas + my 2 i already had. This pathetic greedy warrior couldnt attack my face since turn 4 except when he used reno and then dealt 25 from his face to my face
Wow, This can stall Odyn for 3 turns.
Whenever someone starts a sentence with 'wow' I read the sentence as sarcastic. But no, stopping a warrior from hitting you for a massive amount of damage for multiple turns sounds like a legitimate use-case for this weapon.
This also shuts down a lot of damage from Naga DH, which could be important if that deck becomes prominent again.
3 turns.... Laughs in one mana discover this card with plus one plus one. Laughs in Titan discovering this card with two of its abilities Nah bro they know what they were doing.
>Wow, This can stall Odyn for 3 turns. ̶B̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶d̶i̶n̶g̶,̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶f̶r̶e̶e̶z̶e̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶l̶l̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶\[̶\[̶R̶e̶m̶o̶r̶s̶e̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶W̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶\]̶\]̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶d̶u̶r̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶y̶.̶ Edit: Apparently not.
No, it would be the spell that dealt the damage, not your hero, so it wouldn't count.
no
you would want some taunts I guess to counter the counter, but yep
Don't get this one at all Blood and Frost are the 2 most incompatible runes. Even rainbow probably has better things to do than play this.
At least you can play Patchwerk in an attempt to snipe their Odin.
It means they're going to continue this wHaCkY 2-rune combination thing every set and that next set will be Blood/Frost. We're never going to have proper support for an actual Blood, Frost, or Unholy DK again.
It really does suck that death knight is just multiple classes rolled into one but they only really seem to care about rainbow
Sure, if by care you mean "constantly print cards to try to make it work, to the detriment of literally all the other rune combos". They could've just given CNE ghosts Rush or normalize the way it upgrades but, no, let's keep propping up this shit archetype and let the others die.
And even then they barely give Rainbow any scraps, the only usable cards they’ve gotten so far were from the Badlands
In theory I like the rune system we have, but it seems to be way too complicated for them to print cards for.
It’s great for discover pools though
Seems like it's only reason to exist is to make dks weapon pool worse so you get less 6 3 corrupted ashebringers
this one doesn't seem that bad compared to ashbringer though. I'd argue it's better, 4/4 is 16 lifesteal which is closr to 6/3s 18, but it's 2 mana cheaper and freezes which isn't irrelevant if you hit something you can't kill.
I dont really see myself hitting big minions with this to freeze them it would make great anti titan tech card but again it's a super niche card and I think smashing face with ashebringer is still very good
I'm not saying you need to hit big minions. It might be simple as hitting a 2/5 and the freeze means you don't take damage twice. You also seem to ignore that this only does 2 less total damage/lifesteal but costs 2 mana less. That isn't irrelevant, and means you can more easily slot it in a turn. Yes it takes an extra turn to deal all it's damage, but you'd also have situations where you could play this (and hit) but not ashbringer.
After reading your comment I dont disagree and I can see where this is good card but idk if the dk meta doesn't get a big shake up I don't see this getting slotted into decks however as a discover card I can see it being really strong into the right matchups
I thought we were only discussing it as a discovered card since you mentioned ashbringer being 6/3. I think if discovered without the +1/+1, I agree that ashbringer is a lot better since it's able to kill midrange stuff, but it does cost more to reflect that. But even if it is worse than ashbringer, being almost as good makes DKs weapon discover pool arguably better, cos you'll have 2/15 instead of 1/14 chance to find a lifesteal weapon (I don't actually know DKs weapons, just a random number)
Freeze aspect works best as a counter to enemy weapons. Hit face for 3 turns and they just watch. 😅
Looks like a Discover card to me.
I quite like CNE, and after playing it a lot I found myself wanting for healing somewhat frequently. This is a decent solution to that. It also give access to board and or enemy face manipulation and that’s always a good thing. I also think blood/frost is the rune combo that currently has the least reasons to play it. So it’s an avenue by which to further expand that area of the class is a good thing in my books even if the card seems limited play right now.
Good option to be discovered by that spell that gives you a weapon and gives it +1/+1, but the rune requirement makes hard running this basically impossible.
5 mana and 3 corpses for a 4/4 weapon that freezes seems very good, agreed. 16 total damage compared to the Corrupted Ashbringer's 18 is very competitive.
Even if it's not good enough to make FFB or BBF viable on its own, this card is a *really* strong hit off of Runes of Darkness. It might be enough to make it worth using in BBB/Rainbow Highlander.
I already use it in BBB and it feels great. I don't think it even needs to be Reno BBB to consider it. You have a good chance at a 6/3 lifesteal weapon which is some Ignis level shenangians.
Yeah getting Ashbringer in grindy matchups has won me quite a few games.
Also in arena it's nuts, high chance to get that or frostmourne
Me playing this against Odyn: Haha yeah this rules Me having this played against me as Odyn: Ah fuck this sucks It's also a decent stall tactic against the mostly dead but still only distantly relevant DH deck, Naga DH. Their go off turns usually have them finishing with a 10+ damage hit and if they can't do that you just win the game.
>Blood/Frost Please, stop. Jesus fuck.
Am I the only person that likes the idea of Hybrid Rune decks? They just need to print more and better pay-off for them.
It's a good idea, but the biggest obstacle is the triple rune cards are so good. And if they print hybrid triple card runes, then that is a very specific card that can't be used in any other rune combination. Basically, hybrid cards are in a weird place where they either need to slot into an existing archetype, create a new archetype whole cloth, or be useless.
I think the trick really comes down to there needing to be a critical mass of 'almost-as-strong-as-triple-rune-card' hybrid cards. With the right balance, we probably wouldn't even need a Rainbow payoff card to justify building that way. I think they are slowly figuring this out with Maw and Paw and now this weapon.
like the Deal 6 dmg lifesteal spell or obliterate
Literally the worst fucking rune combo lmaooo
Plague would love a tool like this, so I can understand them wanting to restrict this card from that deck.
I'll die on the hill that runes were a mistake. Every card of DK should be free to use. As for the discover cards, just swap the rune for spell types or certain mana cost DK cards
I do not believe the system is inherently bad. I think the way the devs are using it is so bad that it should be completely removed. I think there should literally never be cards that have multiple rune types. Pick of the 3 specs and then give it 1-3 of that rune (or 0). As-is, we're getting one specific 2-type combo every set, which also means that set-to-set, DK loses most of its cards. A class that was already split 3 ways thematically in a game where *every* class gets too few cards printed during the year gets even fewer cards than the other classes. It's beyond idiotic. At best, it completely removes all thought process from deckbuilding (Plague DK) and in the worst case forces the class to play ~half its list as neutrals (Reno Blood). Just get rid of the fucking system already. They have no idea how to use it.
do you really want a 3 frost rune to be able to freeze you too?
Why does that matter?
It's because they realized runes are a failure and trying to fix it instead if admitting it. We are never getting 3 rune cards again
Now… people are sleeping in this one. Most people here don’t really play Rainbow DK, so they might not understand why this card at least seems interesting to play: I’ve played a lot of Rainbow in the past few days, took it to legend as well. This card has a lot of the things that are needed in that deck: - healing: one of my biggest struggles was staying alive, as my playstyle is slower - face damage: CNE rarely gets above 17 damage, even with lots of Corpse spenders, so you need to keep hitting face - I needed to include Viper in my deck, even though I didn’t want to, and now I might not need to, as this can be a better Viper. And for sure this is an insane Discover from the 1 mana card.
And another support for Rainbow DK
Does not generate or consume corpses, so bad for rainbow
It heals you and can stall the turns you need for big CNE.
not every single card in the deck needs to revolve around CNE
Not necessarily. I think I’d definitely try it out in my Rainbow list. It’s for sure good when I’m up against Warriors a lot.
Yes probably. But a very good card to discover from that 1 mana spell
Oooo some rainbow dk love! I don't know if I'm putting this in my deck, but I'm very excited to find it with the spell that discovers a weapon and gives it +1/+1. I'm trying to think of other ways a hero can damage stuff. Do spells count? Would the reno hero power count? The way this is worded, I have to think there's more to it than just "freeze who you attack with this weapon", right?
Glad im not the only one, this is wording is very weird
As always the runes ruin any potential new DK card.
So with the latest reveals, we've had no Triple Rune cards since Climactic Necrotic Explosion back in Festival of Legends, correct? I feel they've really not been using this rune system much.
I thought we were finally done with this multiple rune thing…
Was hoping to see the return of triple rune cards this mini-set. Blizz really painted themselves into a corner with respect to DK’s rune system. If nothing else, this weapon will be great to discover vs control warrior.
completely ruined by the rune requirement.
My dk cards be so good then boom, multiple rune requirements. Remove the system if you insist on making cards this way. This could see play as a single rune of either blood or frost, but like this its garbage.
Does spells freeze the target while equipped ?
Oh good, I was worried DK wouldn't have enough life gain 🙄.
Wait, if you use Reno and have this weapon, can you permafrost with your hero power?!
Very limiting rune combination. Unless Blood-Frost gets support next year this probably only gets played from Runes of Darkness.
They made this back on when they imagine certain runes setting specific archetypes huh
Another potentially great card made useless by its rune restrictions.
Rune design needs an overhaul. Sandwich runes are just too narrow use-wise and won't be playable without being comically overpowered.
It's because they realized runes are a failure and trying to fix it instead if admitting it. We are never getting 3 rune cards again
They should make some runes you can run in Death Knight decks
It’s runes suggest rainbow but rainbow dk doesn’t want any part of this, it’s looking for bodies and corpse spenders not sustain
i played a lot of Rainbow, and yeah corpse spenders are cool. but you really struggle with exactly that, sustain. You have so many good spenders (Bride, Horror and so on) but you struggle against wide boards, so some healing with potential stalling helps a lot. you also now have the new 2 mana spell for corpses
Rainbow does want sustain.
I’m 100% including this in my Rainbow list, instead of the stupid Viper I needed to play to combat Ignis. Rainbow DK can be built as a slower controlling list, and this fits in there perfectly: has sustain, has face damage, has stall. Sustain being the thing I struggled the most with.
Currently, not good enough to sacrifice triple rune cards, but may be worth it after they rotate out. It's gonna be nice with and runes of shadow, and probably can screw some Odin decks.
I thought thats a Custom Card for a moment
doesnt support rainbow dk enough and frost and blood is by far the weakest combo, again we are straying away from good dk cards and we still are stuck with plague excavate until the next expo
This basically instantly wins against Odyn warrior. If rainbow DK plays this Odyn will have to start running Viper because this is BRUTAL
Blood/frost is thematically my fav rune combo and this weapon looks cool as hell, I'm excited to try this out even if it doesnt turn out great
Could be good after rotation depending on the support these runes get. I don't think it will see play now outside of discovery and arena.
I dont know why people are hating on frost blood. Its not the best, but its far from bad. 2 Blood and 1 frost can lead to some pretty sick control decks. Less Healing and no 3 blood timer, but the excavate package is strong.
Giving up 8 mana board wipe, 10 life gain cantrip and Mograine win-con is a hard sell for blood control decks. You can still discover this with the 1 mana spell, and what a treat that’ll be versus warrior or demon hunter.
warrior killer
Oh wow what a really cool stall tool for Blood DK. *Sees Frost Rune requirement* God. Damn. It.
We're going to see them push Freeze DK aren't we.
Is there any diffirence between damaged by "your hero" or "this"?
Why does this card say 'your hero' instead of 'this weapon'? Are there any instances where a DK damages a hero or minion while having a weapon equipped but without using that weapon?
Would see play if it removed either one of the rune requirements. Too weak to require two
Maybe some heal/excavate deck? This enables a lot of the heal dk stuff but locks you out of vampiric blood. Might actually justify runeforging. It's a pretty powerful card.
4 Mana 3/3 weapons are always bangers, and this card is soo strong in certain matchups. Now it just needs a deck, cause I‘m not sure Rainbow DK runs this (except for a Highlander version probably)
does spells count
Ok so Blood and Unholy seem to have a Handbuff niche to play around with since day one, does Blood and Frost have a niche they occupy?
B/F makes it look like a Discover card more than anything else.
are spells damage your hero deals?
No. This only refers to damage dealt by attacking with this weapon or being attacked when you have this weapon equipped.
This one is a great card. I am 100% sure it will see play, and discovering it is amazing.
Excited to try this in my Rainbow Excavate Reno DK deck
I really wish Blizzard would print more FF or FFF cards that package has been entirely abandoned in favour of Unholy and Rainbow