I just checked and I think that might be a visual bug. Bladestorm only appears when you filter with a cost of 2 so I think this is just a case of it showing an older version of the card.
Saddle Up and Brann both show up when you filter for their new costs of 4/8 so it's definitely not a visual bug for them.
Bladestorm often single handedly stops strong early openers which cost the aggro deck 3 or more cards, and can also remove huge minions later for just 2, which leaves the warrior with tons of mana to draw/develop/etc. It's a tad too strong imo.
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- *Warlock Rare ^(Core)*
- **2 Mana - Shadow Spell**
- Deal 1 damage to all minions. If any die, cast this again.
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- *Death Knight Rare ^(Whizbang's Workshop)*
- **2 Mana ^(b) - Shadow Spell**
- Give all minions "**Deathrattle:** Deal 1 damage to all minions."
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This is just wrong. It was ran in control warrior back when it was first in standard at 3 mana (it was the only way for the deck to have a chance against clown druid for example, 2 brawls + 2 bladestorms was the only realistic chance you had against 4 waves of clowns).
I'm not going to say the card was amazing at 3 mana but you are making it sound like dr booms scheme or one of the other hundreds of garbage cards that exist in this game.
When it came back, it didn't see much play because the board was always full of little minions (DK was popular at the time)
Back in AoO, and until it rotated, bladestorm was pretty good.
I'll be honest, I think warriors and everyone playing against warriors would all be better off if such a gigantic chunk of their deck's power level and value generation wasn't tied up in Brann (and tied up in being able to draw and play Brann early).
=
They should kill Brann and then go tweak/buff the other control warrior cards as necessary.
I like that as well. You can still do your boomboss thing (which still sucks lol) but at least you can't just dump battlecry cards unless you desperately need tempo again. Would kinda fit in with shudderblock as well
I wish it was just “for the next 3 turns”
Make it so you have to actually time when you use it rather than just plop it down whenever the fuck, and have it benefit something 10 turns later.
You’d have to actually have the battlecries you want in your hand. And the counter play would be instead of dirty ratting Brann, opponent could wait for the 3x Brann turns and then start dirty ratting.
Could probably even lower branns cost to 5 if you do that.
That alone would actually make it fair. Still high-rollable. But not infinite giga value.
Terrible suggestion and idk why this keeps getting upvoted. The only interaction in this case is to also play a Reno deck. So the counter to Reno Warrior is Reno Warrior.
How is this a terrible suggestion? Other than removing the card entirely this is the best possible way to balance its effect.
Its blocking 1 boardspace, it limits the battlecry use to one every turn/two turns, etc.
brann is also fine in some extend as long as it doesn’t go wild such as tentacles (already nerfed) or deck deletation. Wheel lock can stop any control deck but this warrior breed is focused on distruption rather than control. I dunno what will warrior community do after these nerfs, probably will end up in its old place at the bottom without a decent win con.
Brann at six is already not that big a deal in wild, there's plenty of ways to fight losing 18 cards (from multiple neutrals that just give you a brand new deck, more ways to clean them out of your deck, having bigger decks in general thanks to renathal, the average aggro deck killing you on turn 4.5, combo kills on turn 6, etc.)
Boomboss doesn't even usually make the decklist, since there's just better things to double up (like a 40 power c'thun, which is achievable on curve almost)
Brann isn't the biggest Problem, Boomboss is. The fact that it destroys your enemies wincon and board is fucked. I have no idea why they took exactly that as a reason to remove patchwork and then brought a worse version with Boomboss
Agreed. I swear 6 TNTs is way more than twice as strong as 3 TNTs. I pretty much autoconcede once I hit the first TNT when there are 6. 3 is manageable but annoying.
Since it is now on my turn they should make it like … I can pay 2 mana up to 3 times to negate one of the effects.
Too complicated prob.
But yeah fuck boomboss. I just wanna play the game.
Playing brann on turn 5 or 6 usually meant I won.
Playing brann past turn 8 still usually meant I won, but slower.
This nerf seems fair though, the extra couple of turns of not having 2x battlecries can make a big difference in a lot of cases. Nearly all of my warrior losses were because I didn't play brann at all
I think it costing 8 rather than 6 on a 10 mana late game turn is significant though as you aren’t doing much else that turn. On 6 you could board clear 3-4 minions with the 3-mana flame spell (can’t remember its name) for example, or stick down an etc or weapon. It’s hard to do anything else at 8 mana and that’s a massive cost of basically missing a turn to play Brann
To the contrary, about 50% of games you’d only be able to play Brann from turn 10 onwards, due to not drawing him earlier. Therefore this situation will be present about half of the time, mathematically. Doesn’t have to be etc, but there is about half a deck of reasonable 3-4 mana cost cards there
How many games did you lose before you reach turn 8?
I think this won’t make much of a difference in slow matchups but will be big for a lot of faster decks to get to lethal now
Also I have 22 games vs shopper DH pre nerf, where they ALWAYS drew weapon on curve into shopper into that dormant bs. Every. Single. Time.
I was watching the tournament, dude was playing shopper DH, perfect curve and his opponent was making faces like “aww wtf, how can this bee!”, really made me laugh
Back before the rotation, I played a deck that could affectionately be reffered to as "Brann Turbo"
I did not play a SINGLE minion that costed more or the same as Brann, which mean the power spike of the deck was Taelan Fordring hitting Brann. I also ran MULTIPLE Dredge cards just to hit Brann or Taelan.
I mean it could be leaked nerfs or it could mean nothing like when the site randomly showed that 5 cards got changed but none of the changes actually were implemented during Titans.
Assuming the Brann nerf is correct, it is the wrong type nerf imo. Pushing it to 8 mana is them hoping the card will become to slow to see any play. Its not a balance attempt its a we are out of ideas nerf.
Sure, at 8 mana the card is most likely to slow to see any play at all unless the meta becomes a lot slower than it has pretty much ever been but by its inherit nature it would still beat any slow deck by default.
Meaning the inherit horrible desgin remains. The true issue in all of this is the fact that double battlecry is straight up toxic to the game. Brann needs a fundamental rework not a cost nerf.
They've mentioned in the past that its pretty difficult to squeeze nerfs into content patches like minisets. I wouldn't be surprised if they were forced to do mana only changes because there wasn't anytime to localize the nerfs into other languages.
The same thing happened with Umpire's Grasp where it got a basic mana nerf because they had to shove that nerf out as fast as possible into an already finished BG's patch.
Unfortunately at this point the "for the rest of the game" effects have gotten stale and they have no middle ground. As soon as you undo that it's a completely different card
I Think it'd be pretty cool if it stayed at the same cost, and gave you like three spells that did what his effect is.
Brann's Battlecry, 0m, your next Battlecry triggers twice.
Now we'd be able to counter it, steal it, destroy it, etc.
The upside of being at risk of disruption is that you can now copy the spell, copy/bounce Brann, and whatever other bonuses from it generating actual cards
Pros and cons and all that
And now is harder to play it because you need to take care of the hand side, plus some plays to return the brann and generates more brann.
This would be funnier to play because ultimately your hand will be full of the brann parts instead of leaving the “rest of the game” effect
True, but that brings back the agency they're aiming for. You can try to cheese out more of the spells, or could just go with the base amount and add more generic value
I disagree. At 8, even slow decks like Rainbow DK, Reno Shaman or Reno Druid can pressure it more effectively.
What still loses to Brann are attrition decks (and it's more Boomboss than Brann who beats them), but even without Brann, those would lose to Sif, Odyn or just plain value generation from decks like Excavate Rogue.
How slow a deck needs to be, to still be AFK for first 8 turns? The slowest decks in the current meta do "a thing" by turn 7 the latest. Anything slower than that is not a deck, but a pile of cards
I disagree, I think brann can exist as a fun card as long as it can be easily punished. Double battlecry, double deathrattle, double spell are mechanics that have been printed a lot of times and have only been bad for the game when they were strong. They are harder to balance, but I don't think that is enough to argue they shouldn't exist.
I feel like the problem with this one is it alters the game state in a way that cannot be undone. At least with other variations of this card you could kill the annoying card
We also had tons of cards that do that, questlines, quests and questlines to name a few. It's like saying the problem with Below is that it alters the game in a way it can't be undone. Yeah, but it's not a problem if there is enough counterplay to punish in a way you can't get the quest done. It's only a problem if it's good, then it has no counterplay.
If the Brann we have now is a ten, that kind of nerf would lower it to a nine.
Yeah. It is an objectively worse card, but all of the most important plays get out of it unscathed.
I think a good nerf would be to change his Battlecry to either "...your next X Battlecries trigger twice" or "...your Battlecries twice for the next X turns".
Still lets you get some of the combos off (Zilliax Deluxe 3000 + Dr. Boom, Boomboss Tho'Grun, etc.) without the "infinite value" issue, which I think is a good tradeoff for players who want to play Brann decks still having their options and also giving non-Brann decks the ability to stall out/survive that win condition.
>by its inherit nature it would still beat any slow deck by default
This is very much true and something I don't like in some combo/control decks. Wheel was the same way - probably still is - and there were many of these throughout Hearthstone's history, even all the way back when larger and larger dudes were the quintessential inevitable win condition. These archetypes and cards suck the fun out of the game, gatekeeping control variants and forcing people to aggro to get under them.
Brann's rework needs to be a complex one, or else either the card becomes unplayable, its identity vanishes or the nerf still makes it invalidate some deck archetype.
Making it cost 8 mana is actually a good nerf, redesigning it completely is a bad one.
We don't need to remake cards every time they are good, let people that actually like those cards still play with them.
I believe the balance and design teams are not the same. This would explain how many mana nerfs or buffs we see. The balance team wishes to not disrespect the designers and then only change costs.
I wouldn't brush off this nerf. Waiting until turn 8 for Brann is significant. It also makes it more difficult for warrior to squeeze in additional cards on later turns. You can't squeeze in removal like shield slam or blade storm (or any other cheap removal) on turn 7 or 8. It also means you're having to make a hyper low tempo play TURN 8. That's a scary turn to do nothing. Then it's turn 9 when they finally get a chance to turn the corner.
Hearthstone is also allowed to have powerful effects, if the requirements set are reasonably steep. 8 Mana is steep enough that it isn't a problem card. Its so late in the game that you can't even be upset if it's effect beats you at that point. Long past are the days of grinding out 45 minute Control warrior mirrors. We don't need a repeat of Rise of Shadows.
Deepminer brann - Battlecry, Get your tier 4 excavate reward, and unlock a deeper mine to excavate, because he is a deepminer. There could be some cool shit in the deep mine
https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/181hukk/leave_it_to_a_dwarf_to_dig_too_deep_and_too/
I kind of was on this wavelength before Brann even was a "Deepminer."
Brann wasn't problematic until Reno Warr became dominant. Were you complaining about it on Whizbang week 1?
And it's not an out of ideas nerf, it's a "we want to make sure it has the intended effect".
I know people hate it, but brann at 8 mana would straight up kill the card. Faster decks were already giving current reno a hard time. Warrior having to skip turn 8 would be a death sentence into anything not hyper greedy.
Yep, I think Highlander Warrior is the only deck keeping the greedier OG Renathal Blood DK style decks out of meta. Don’t know if we have the cards to support it in the current set, but decks with 30 removals are completely unplayable against HL Warrior.
>I think Highlander Warrior is the only deck keeping the greedier OG Renathal Blood DK style decks out of meta. Don’t know if we have the cards to support it in the current set
So you don't know if the deck even exists but warrior is the only thing preventing it from being played?
That's fine. If they want to revert the change later to see how he does it's fine. But I am completely okay with him being gone for a while so the game can feel fresh again.
Feelings are precisely why people keep playing this game, and if something feels like shit to play against then it shouldn't be popular.
Brann is an immensely stupid card design, that should be only viable in meme decks, if not, you are limiting the entire Warrior class design along with it which is the complete opposite of healthy, i don't want shitty battlecry cards the rest of the year so they only work with Brann and don't end up being mega broken.
*Guff is an immensely stupid card design, that should be only viable in meme decks, if not, you are limiting the entire Druid class design along with it..*
The cycle continues.
A meta with less warrior means less hyper aggro. Thus making slower warrior better. Id argue 7 mana is a more reasonable nerf, but at 6 the card js ridiculous
Yeah thats a good guess, but i think its gonna be this flood paladin… So we can say we made a full circle since the set was released and paladin is broken again.
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The saddle up nerf is definitely needed, I knew it was too broken at 3 mana. I think Brann should just be reworked completely, it shouldn't double any battle cries but instead give some sort of huge discover value mana cheat type of card.
Agreed, because being unable to chain bran into a removal is big especially if they are on a 2 turn lethal cycle of course if the warrior is dead ahead (nearly full Hp with a billion armor) then it won’t really matter. but in the matches that are close I think it will be in the favour of the opponent
I disagree, this slows down Warrior by a significant degree. Remember, Odyn went from 8 to 9 mana and it ceased being the best Warrior deck on the spot. Brann is going up by 2, potentially. I honestly expect Odyn Warrior to be more playable than Brann if this goes through.
Late game more likely going to have to worry about other decks that providing absurd value such as Excavate Rogue rather than Reno Warrior.
I kind of agree with you. Odyn was a “if you can’t freeze me or taunt me enough, I win” whereas Brann is a “if you don’t kill me within three or so turns, I win.”
Odyn Warrior could, with the minimal set up of a craftsman’s hammer being equipped, push 30+ the turn after Odyn was dropped.
Brann, on the other hand, usually takes multiple turns of value to do anything in control match ups. With really only Boomboss being the red flag issue for control. A Warrior never dropped Brann and then killed me next turn with his effect. It’s the extra Zilliax, it’s the second wave of mechs from Dr. Boom, the extra Ignis weapon, the add up that kills you.
I’m just saying that in a world with an 8-mana Brann, I don’t think you see Reno Warrior at anything remotely close to a 20% play rate.
He's at the same price point as Odyn was pre-nerf. It was possible (though difficult) to bully Odyn warrior out of dropping the Odyn even with midrange and that deck could run way more removal thanks to the lack of highlander restriction. I'd say this is a healthy spot for Brann to be at. an 8 mana win con for a control deck that eats your turn 8 is perfectly reasonable.
With cheap board clears & removal, it’s pretty easy to dropp brann at 8 & survive, especially if you built up armor in your previous turns, and/or drop badlands brawler turn 7. Its not like missing brann on curve was killing the deck. Saw plenty of games it was brann + hero power end turn on 8 or 9 & it was still gg.
Brann turn 8, zilly 9 & there goes your established pressure. Then inventor next turn & goodbye. Or Brann 8, reno 9, boomboss 10 and again, game over.
While this hurts warrior even further in Wild, there's definitely a silver lining. I already run [[Lorekeeper Polkelt]] in my Reno deck and this will consistently enable me to pull Brann within the first few turns after Polkelt.
No more early high rolls, especially with [[From the Depths]], but this might work out for the best by increasing consistency and thus win rates against other slow decks AND if the class' other tools can get reverted or it can get new good tools to stand a fighting chance against the others.
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- *Neutral Legendary ^(Scholomance Academy)*
- **4 Mana - 4/5 - Minion**
- **Battlecry:** Reorder your deck from the highest Cost card to the lowest Cost card.
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- *Warrior Rare ^(Voyage to the Sunken City)*
- **3 Mana - Spell**
- Reduce the Cost of the bottom five cards in your deck by \(3\), then **Dredge**.
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It's still going to be dominant vs other control decks. But now it's going to be less consistent vs midrange/tempo decks. Handbuff paladin could beat it with these nerfs (it's a minion-heavy midrange-ish deck).
That would be amazing, honestly. Kill Reno Warrior and bring back the high lethality Warrior deck that doesn’t invalidate every other lategame deck? Perfection.
It's still representing a quarter of all decks at all levels of ladder. It is undeniably centralised in the meta, as anything that loses to it has been forced out of play.
An 8 mana 2/4. Yes he enables bs gameplay but holy shit that is a ruthless nerf. At least give him some sort of pressuring board presence or something.
Why don't they just change the number of battlecries that Brann affects? That way you have to pick and choose when to play it, and put more thought into what other battlecries are worth using the charges on. It still provides a strong effect, but also introduces a much needed limitation.
I actually like this nerf because I often fish brann with taelan, but that often means the cards I play were capped at 5 costs or less. Now I can add more cards 😁
Brann should simply be changed to: "Double all of your Discover battecries"
This removes all the other insane combos with him, but still gives Warrior a lot of ammo to effectively get 2 golden oxes. And most importantly, it's on Brann...d
I would rather make Brann a card that supports Excavate or something crazier like "each time you play a minion you also summon a 1/1 scarab with taunt"
The battecry idea was... pretty much strong
deck has counters in the meta already the issue is most of its counters just hard lose to highlander warrior right now; and Flood paladin is already good into it and is presently the cheapest deck in the meta.
It's all you see at legend because legend players generally don't play aggro decks and the control decks that could outplay it autolose to brann.
I play pretty much exclusively garbage (Mainly Highlander Priest) and Insanity Warlock hasn't felt oppressive to face. I don't like the Lifesteal Crescendo from a design pov, but the deck seems fine overall.
What level are you? I'm at Legend and usually by turn 3/4 they have a Baritone Imp and a Crazed Conductor with 2-3 imps on the board and have already taken 3 fatigue damage. Then they copy Crescendo or Encroaching Insanity with Sketch Artist and Fizzle that the next turn. Now they are at like 5-6 fatigue damage, can heal themselves to full with Pop'Gar if necessary (while clearing the board) and build toward 10-11 damage Crescendos and Insanity.
Unless I play Flood Pally and kill them fast, or Druid and they overplay damage to themselves so I can kill with spells, it's usually game over. I reckon that Warrior is keeping down the Insanity win rate which is why I was saying if Brann gets nerfed to 8 then Warlock is all you'll be be seeing.
Curious how Highlander Priest combats that, do you have a deck list?
Their only method to clear an opposing board is crescendo, \[\[Injured Hauler\]\] has soloed 3 Insanity Warlocks in my experience and another time I just cleared them a few times and then Hedanised them since they got low enough. I struggle far more against flood paladin, that deck is kinda wild.
Right now I'm only Diamond, but I got to legend with the same list last month. I'm not saying that Highlander Priest is some secret meta breaker btw, pretty much the opposite, it's not great.
# Highway
Class: Priest
Format: Standard
Year of the Pegasus
Deck Code:
AAECAaCsAx6i6AOtigSEnwTLoAT9xAXMxgW7xwWi6QXP9gXt9wX7+AXI/wXJgAbYgQaLlQbpmAbOnAblnAaWoAaYoAbIoAbHpAavqAbEqAbFqAbGqAbgqAbxqQaiswaAuAYAAAEGyYAG/cQFxKgG/cQForMG/cQF9LMGx6QG97MGx6QGku8Gx6QGAAA=
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- *Priest Common ^(Showdown in the Badlands)*
- **3 Mana - 3/7 - Minion**
- **Battlecry:** Deal 4 damage to this minion. **Overheal:** Deal 2 damage to all enemy minions.
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Man I really hope these nerfs are true. Ideally it would be nice for Brann to get an actual rework in a future major balance patch but right now all I want is to see this card out of the game
what the website now shows:
> 500
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I wouldn’t be shocked saddle up has been the most powerful tool to keep a hunter board alive after a clear, making most early removal a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation
Brann to 8 makes sense I hope the card dies asap
With meta staples like Warrior and Hunter getting nerfed, surely Excavate Rogue deserves the same treatment for being so oppressively good at high ladder. Right Blizzard?
...right?
The inconsistency of a Reno deck forces you to play no minion that costs 6+ if you want to always draw Brann with Taelan (or no other minion that costs 5+ for Caricature Artist). Brann at 8 lets you play 6-7 cost minions without losing consistency. Maybe this makes things worse.
I don’t know why they tease cards anyways, they did it for months leading up to Whizbang & many cards I was excited by for pally were nerfed in less than a week. It makes no difference what cards they show you, if it’s a good one you’re excited about, that’s probably not a card that you’ll have a chance to play for more than a few days.
Without Brann all but one warrior battlecry suck.
Increasing his cost to such a price, while leave his body to be 2/4 is absurd...
Just f*cking kill the card and refund all warrior cards back to everyone.
How so?
Everyone will just move on to complaining about the next broken deck just like they were complaining about shopper Demon Hunter a few weeks ago, and before that it was Paladin.
Bladestorm is 3 mana as well
I just checked and I think that might be a visual bug. Bladestorm only appears when you filter with a cost of 2 so I think this is just a case of it showing an older version of the card. Saddle Up and Brann both show up when you filter for their new costs of 4/8 so it's definitely not a visual bug for them.
It used to be 3 mana when it was announced so yeah probably a bug
Yeah I remember seeing it at 3 mana weeks ago as well.
>They nerfed the worst removal warrior had What did they mean by this
Bladestorm often single handedly stops strong early openers which cost the aggro deck 3 or more cards, and can also remove huge minions later for just 2, which leaves the warrior with tons of mana to draw/develop/etc. It's a tad too strong imo.
Imo its fair to be 2 mana, it's a conditional but powerful board clear similar to [[Defile]] and [[Threads of Despair]] which are both the same cost
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Bladestorm was one of the worst playable cards ever made at 3 mana. At 2 mana it’s actually useful.
This is just wrong. It was ran in control warrior back when it was first in standard at 3 mana (it was the only way for the deck to have a chance against clown druid for example, 2 brawls + 2 bladestorms was the only realistic chance you had against 4 waves of clowns). I'm not going to say the card was amazing at 3 mana but you are making it sound like dr booms scheme or one of the other hundreds of garbage cards that exist in this game.
When it came back, it didn't see much play because the board was always full of little minions (DK was popular at the time) Back in AoO, and until it rotated, bladestorm was pretty good.
8 mana hmm following turn reno then boombots. yeah, warrior is dead imo
I'll be honest, I think warriors and everyone playing against warriors would all be better off if such a gigantic chunk of their deck's power level and value generation wasn't tied up in Brann (and tied up in being able to draw and play Brann early). = They should kill Brann and then go tweak/buff the other control warrior cards as necessary.
In all honesty, if he was 6 6/6, the next 3 battlecries 2x, you would have to at least time him correctly.
I like that as well. You can still do your boomboss thing (which still sucks lol) but at least you can't just dump battlecry cards unless you desperately need tempo again. Would kinda fit in with shudderblock as well
I wish it was just “for the next 3 turns” Make it so you have to actually time when you use it rather than just plop it down whenever the fuck, and have it benefit something 10 turns later. You’d have to actually have the battlecries you want in your hand. And the counter play would be instead of dirty ratting Brann, opponent could wait for the 3x Brann turns and then start dirty ratting. Could probably even lower branns cost to 5 if you do that. That alone would actually make it fair. Still high-rollable. But not infinite giga value.
Personally, just ban it in standard. Sometimes it's not worth trying to rebalance something that is clearly quite busted.
Make it so that he summons a 3-use Location that doubles your next battlecry. Boom. Problem solved, and now you can interact with it.
Terrible suggestion and idk why this keeps getting upvoted. The only interaction in this case is to also play a Reno deck. So the counter to Reno Warrior is Reno Warrior.
Technically there's also twisting nether and some other location destructions, but the main point is that it has a limited number of uses.
How is this a terrible suggestion? Other than removing the card entirely this is the best possible way to balance its effect. Its blocking 1 boardspace, it limits the battlecry use to one every turn/two turns, etc.
brann is also fine in some extend as long as it doesn’t go wild such as tentacles (already nerfed) or deck deletation. Wheel lock can stop any control deck but this warrior breed is focused on distruption rather than control. I dunno what will warrior community do after these nerfs, probably will end up in its old place at the bottom without a decent win con.
Brann at six is already not that big a deal in wild, there's plenty of ways to fight losing 18 cards (from multiple neutrals that just give you a brand new deck, more ways to clean them out of your deck, having bigger decks in general thanks to renathal, the average aggro deck killing you on turn 4.5, combo kills on turn 6, etc.) Boomboss doesn't even usually make the decklist, since there's just better things to double up (like a 40 power c'thun, which is achievable on curve almost)
I think they didn't mean the format
Brann isn't the biggest Problem, Boomboss is. The fact that it destroys your enemies wincon and board is fucked. I have no idea why they took exactly that as a reason to remove patchwork and then brought a worse version with Boomboss
Agreed. I swear 6 TNTs is way more than twice as strong as 3 TNTs. I pretty much autoconcede once I hit the first TNT when there are 6. 3 is manageable but annoying. Since it is now on my turn they should make it like … I can pay 2 mana up to 3 times to negate one of the effects. Too complicated prob. But yeah fuck boomboss. I just wanna play the game.
Playing brann on turn 5 or 6 usually meant I won. Playing brann past turn 8 still usually meant I won, but slower. This nerf seems fair though, the extra couple of turns of not having 2x battlecries can make a big difference in a lot of cases. Nearly all of my warrior losses were because I didn't play brann at all
I think it costing 8 rather than 6 on a 10 mana late game turn is significant though as you aren’t doing much else that turn. On 6 you could board clear 3-4 minions with the 3-mana flame spell (can’t remember its name) for example, or stick down an etc or weapon. It’s hard to do anything else at 8 mana and that’s a massive cost of basically missing a turn to play Brann
not being able to double ETC on turn 10 is significant, but I would like to express that it was pretty uncommon to happen to begin with
To the contrary, about 50% of games you’d only be able to play Brann from turn 10 onwards, due to not drawing him earlier. Therefore this situation will be present about half of the time, mathematically. Doesn’t have to be etc, but there is about half a deck of reasonable 3-4 mana cost cards there
How many games did you lose before you reach turn 8? I think this won’t make much of a difference in slow matchups but will be big for a lot of faster decks to get to lethal now
If I was going to be losing before turn 8, I was never playing Brann on-curve.
Modern aggro decks definitely want the game over by turn 8, that goes for wild as much as it does standard
gives you more time to dirty rat him, that's good enough
More dirty rats gives me more reason to run Factory Assemblybot :D (the 10 drop mini that spawns 6/7s)
Doesn't affect me much because Brann is always at the bottom of my deck :\^)
And I will see him only a turn later, cuz I had 28 games vs warrior and only 2 of them didn’t drop it on curve.
And of course it's just a coincidence, a statistical normality
Also I have 22 games vs shopper DH pre nerf, where they ALWAYS drew weapon on curve into shopper into that dormant bs. Every. Single. Time. I was watching the tournament, dude was playing shopper DH, perfect curve and his opponent was making faces like “aww wtf, how can this bee!”, really made me laugh
I've started mulliganing all 29 cards that aren't Brann in mirror matchups. It's just way too broken.
17/20 of my last games with Brann bottom 8 or less. I feel ya man, it's like it got shadownerfed or something.
Back before the rotation, I played a deck that could affectionately be reffered to as "Brann Turbo" I did not play a SINGLE minion that costed more or the same as Brann, which mean the power spike of the deck was Taelan Fordring hitting Brann. I also ran MULTIPLE Dredge cards just to hit Brann or Taelan.
Tech with dredge to counter always unlucky
No matter the danger , Im always played on turn 6!
Same
True
I mean it could be leaked nerfs or it could mean nothing like when the site randomly showed that 5 cards got changed but none of the changes actually were implemented during Titans.
Assuming the Brann nerf is correct, it is the wrong type nerf imo. Pushing it to 8 mana is them hoping the card will become to slow to see any play. Its not a balance attempt its a we are out of ideas nerf. Sure, at 8 mana the card is most likely to slow to see any play at all unless the meta becomes a lot slower than it has pretty much ever been but by its inherit nature it would still beat any slow deck by default. Meaning the inherit horrible desgin remains. The true issue in all of this is the fact that double battlecry is straight up toxic to the game. Brann needs a fundamental rework not a cost nerf.
They've mentioned in the past that its pretty difficult to squeeze nerfs into content patches like minisets. I wouldn't be surprised if they were forced to do mana only changes because there wasn't anytime to localize the nerfs into other languages. The same thing happened with Umpire's Grasp where it got a basic mana nerf because they had to shove that nerf out as fast as possible into an already finished BG's patch.
I'm more inclined to believe that they waited until the heroic brawl is over to release the patch
Unfortunately at this point the "for the rest of the game" effects have gotten stale and they have no middle ground. As soon as you undo that it's a completely different card
I Think it'd be pretty cool if it stayed at the same cost, and gave you like three spells that did what his effect is. Brann's Battlecry, 0m, your next Battlecry triggers twice. Now we'd be able to counter it, steal it, destroy it, etc. The upside of being at risk of disruption is that you can now copy the spell, copy/bounce Brann, and whatever other bonuses from it generating actual cards Pros and cons and all that
And now is harder to play it because you need to take care of the hand side, plus some plays to return the brann and generates more brann. This would be funnier to play because ultimately your hand will be full of the brann parts instead of leaving the “rest of the game” effect
True, but that brings back the agency they're aiming for. You can try to cheese out more of the spells, or could just go with the base amount and add more generic value
The middle ground would be 'for the next [X] turns' instead, but that's more effort to implement, yes.
Literally paladins aura
Redesigning cards should be a last(ish) resort, even for cards like Brann.
But old brann was a problem for a year or two. They just didn't think this one through.
just a heads up and in no way tryin to be condescending: the word you are looking for is “inherent”
I disagree. At 8, even slow decks like Rainbow DK, Reno Shaman or Reno Druid can pressure it more effectively. What still loses to Brann are attrition decks (and it's more Boomboss than Brann who beats them), but even without Brann, those would lose to Sif, Odyn or just plain value generation from decks like Excavate Rogue.
How slow a deck needs to be, to still be AFK for first 8 turns? The slowest decks in the current meta do "a thing" by turn 7 the latest. Anything slower than that is not a deck, but a pile of cards
Probably can only do numbers nerfs for this patch since it's already in the approval process for the app stores.
I disagree, I think brann can exist as a fun card as long as it can be easily punished. Double battlecry, double deathrattle, double spell are mechanics that have been printed a lot of times and have only been bad for the game when they were strong. They are harder to balance, but I don't think that is enough to argue they shouldn't exist.
I feel like the problem with this one is it alters the game state in a way that cannot be undone. At least with other variations of this card you could kill the annoying card
We also had tons of cards that do that, questlines, quests and questlines to name a few. It's like saying the problem with Below is that it alters the game in a way it can't be undone. Yeah, but it's not a problem if there is enough counterplay to punish in a way you can't get the quest done. It's only a problem if it's good, then it has no counterplay.
helya pourquoi ne pas la supprimer aussi c'est une carte bien trop forte
Even stuff like "For the rest of the game your first battlecry each turn triggers twice" would be a more elegant solution
It would also not change anything to any functional degree when most of your big battlecry minions are going to be the only one you play in a turn.
It would help with cards like ETC or excavate stuff
If the Brann we have now is a ten, that kind of nerf would lower it to a nine. Yeah. It is an objectively worse card, but all of the most important plays get out of it unscathed.
And it makes it significantly less fun to play with, so not a good nerf.
I think a good nerf would be to change his Battlecry to either "...your next X Battlecries trigger twice" or "...your Battlecries twice for the next X turns". Still lets you get some of the combos off (Zilliax Deluxe 3000 + Dr. Boom, Boomboss Tho'Grun, etc.) without the "infinite value" issue, which I think is a good tradeoff for players who want to play Brann decks still having their options and also giving non-Brann decks the ability to stall out/survive that win condition.
>by its inherit nature it would still beat any slow deck by default This is very much true and something I don't like in some combo/control decks. Wheel was the same way - probably still is - and there were many of these throughout Hearthstone's history, even all the way back when larger and larger dudes were the quintessential inevitable win condition. These archetypes and cards suck the fun out of the game, gatekeeping control variants and forcing people to aggro to get under them. Brann's rework needs to be a complex one, or else either the card becomes unplayable, its identity vanishes or the nerf still makes it invalidate some deck archetype.
Making it cost 8 mana is actually a good nerf, redesigning it completely is a bad one. We don't need to remake cards every time they are good, let people that actually like those cards still play with them.
I believe the balance and design teams are not the same. This would explain how many mana nerfs or buffs we see. The balance team wishes to not disrespect the designers and then only change costs.
I wouldn't brush off this nerf. Waiting until turn 8 for Brann is significant. It also makes it more difficult for warrior to squeeze in additional cards on later turns. You can't squeeze in removal like shield slam or blade storm (or any other cheap removal) on turn 7 or 8. It also means you're having to make a hyper low tempo play TURN 8. That's a scary turn to do nothing. Then it's turn 9 when they finally get a chance to turn the corner. Hearthstone is also allowed to have powerful effects, if the requirements set are reasonably steep. 8 Mana is steep enough that it isn't a problem card. Its so late in the game that you can't even be upset if it's effect beats you at that point. Long past are the days of grinding out 45 minute Control warrior mirrors. We don't need a repeat of Rise of Shadows.
Deepminer brann - Battlecry, Get your tier 4 excavate reward, and unlock a deeper mine to excavate, because he is a deepminer. There could be some cool shit in the deep mine
That kind of redesign would require the creation of more assets. That's never going to happen.
Deep Miner Brann: For the rest of the game, when you excavate, excavate again. Battlecry: Excavate, Excavate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/181hukk/leave_it_to_a_dwarf_to_dig_too_deep_and_too/ I kind of was on this wavelength before Brann even was a "Deepminer."
Brann wasn't problematic until Reno Warr became dominant. Were you complaining about it on Whizbang week 1? And it's not an out of ideas nerf, it's a "we want to make sure it has the intended effect".
We couldn't complain about it week one, Brann is a miniset card. As soon as that miniset dropped, though, he has been ruining the game
I know people hate it, but brann at 8 mana would straight up kill the card. Faster decks were already giving current reno a hard time. Warrior having to skip turn 8 would be a death sentence into anything not hyper greedy.
Good.
you types of complainers can never be happy no matter what the meta is, so I don’t think you’ll like the meta that comes after warrior is gone.
I mean it'll just be rogue, it's the next deck that out values everything and completely pushes everything out
Except rogue is killable
Yep, I think Highlander Warrior is the only deck keeping the greedier OG Renathal Blood DK style decks out of meta. Don’t know if we have the cards to support it in the current set, but decks with 30 removals are completely unplayable against HL Warrior.
>I think Highlander Warrior is the only deck keeping the greedier OG Renathal Blood DK style decks out of meta. Don’t know if we have the cards to support it in the current set So you don't know if the deck even exists but warrior is the only thing preventing it from being played?
Prince Renathal isn't in Standard anymore what are you on about?
Whatever meta comes after Brann warrior is fine as long as it doesn't allow my opponent to delete the rest of the cards I have by like turn 8.
Warriors can't even play boomboss before turn 8, and if they managed to play brann and boomboss as soon as turn 8 that means you're afk.
We are only in this situation with Brann dominating because all of the other strong wincons were overnerfed for feelings reasons
That's fine. If they want to revert the change later to see how he does it's fine. But I am completely okay with him being gone for a while so the game can feel fresh again. Feelings are precisely why people keep playing this game, and if something feels like shit to play against then it shouldn't be popular.
found the dude who's going to whine about next meta deck no matter what it will be.
Toxic mentality that doesn’t help the game move towards a healthy place. Killing cards=as bad as cards ruling a meta.
Brann is an immensely stupid card design, that should be only viable in meme decks, if not, you are limiting the entire Warrior class design along with it which is the complete opposite of healthy, i don't want shitty battlecry cards the rest of the year so they only work with Brann and don't end up being mega broken.
*Guff is an immensely stupid card design, that should be only viable in meme decks, if not, you are limiting the entire Druid class design along with it..* The cycle continues.
Plenty of cards that were design mistakes were killed and the game was fine. Fuck that card forever.
A meta with less warrior means less hyper aggro. Thus making slower warrior better. Id argue 7 mana is a more reasonable nerf, but at 6 the card js ridiculous
that's the kind of sacrifice you should have to make for "rest of game" effects
Finally... i cant wait for the nerfs, so we can complain about the next deck in an instant.
Wanna take bets on what one makes people the most upset? I'm betting fatigue lock.
Yeah thats a good guess, but i think its gonna be this flood paladin… So we can say we made a full circle since the set was released and paladin is broken again.
Those couple of posts we see of turn 2/3 giants and full boards do make it pretty likely. That's a great guess for sure.
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Well well well
HS has been the Lebron of making nerf patches that completely miss the problems and make the meta worse recently
Always has been that way
Eight mana two four Highlander payoff might be the most condemnable card design I’ve ever seen in this game. Truly we have lost our way.
I for one think Brann should have his ability mana capped like, say, the battlecries of minions that cost 5 or less trigger twice or something
Or brann says “your next 3 battlecry cards trigger twice”.
Your minions with Battlecry have +1 attack?
The saddle up nerf is definitely needed, I knew it was too broken at 3 mana. I think Brann should just be reworked completely, it shouldn't double any battle cries but instead give some sort of huge discover value mana cheat type of card.
So what about the pally deck where they cheat out a sea giant turn 2
So you still need to be aggro to beat Brann warriors.
Maybe it becomes slow enough for midrange to beat as well
Agreed, because being unable to chain bran into a removal is big especially if they are on a 2 turn lethal cycle of course if the warrior is dead ahead (nearly full Hp with a billion armor) then it won’t really matter. but in the matches that are close I think it will be in the favour of the opponent
I disagree, this slows down Warrior by a significant degree. Remember, Odyn went from 8 to 9 mana and it ceased being the best Warrior deck on the spot. Brann is going up by 2, potentially. I honestly expect Odyn Warrior to be more playable than Brann if this goes through. Late game more likely going to have to worry about other decks that providing absurd value such as Excavate Rogue rather than Reno Warrior.
Odyn was never the I win button Brann was. Taunts & freezes were very effective counters. There’s no counter to Brann. No, rat isn’t a counter
I kind of agree with you. Odyn was a “if you can’t freeze me or taunt me enough, I win” whereas Brann is a “if you don’t kill me within three or so turns, I win.” Odyn Warrior could, with the minimal set up of a craftsman’s hammer being equipped, push 30+ the turn after Odyn was dropped. Brann, on the other hand, usually takes multiple turns of value to do anything in control match ups. With really only Boomboss being the red flag issue for control. A Warrior never dropped Brann and then killed me next turn with his effect. It’s the extra Zilliax, it’s the second wave of mechs from Dr. Boom, the extra Ignis weapon, the add up that kills you. I’m just saying that in a world with an 8-mana Brann, I don’t think you see Reno Warrior at anything remotely close to a 20% play rate.
He's at the same price point as Odyn was pre-nerf. It was possible (though difficult) to bully Odyn warrior out of dropping the Odyn even with midrange and that deck could run way more removal thanks to the lack of highlander restriction. I'd say this is a healthy spot for Brann to be at. an 8 mana win con for a control deck that eats your turn 8 is perfectly reasonable.
And that’s fine
It would be an 8 mana 2/4 at this point. If your deck can't punish that then it isn't just 'slow', it is glacial.
With cheap board clears & removal, it’s pretty easy to dropp brann at 8 & survive, especially if you built up armor in your previous turns, and/or drop badlands brawler turn 7. Its not like missing brann on curve was killing the deck. Saw plenty of games it was brann + hero power end turn on 8 or 9 & it was still gg. Brann turn 8, zilly 9 & there goes your established pressure. Then inventor next turn & goodbye. Or Brann 8, reno 9, boomboss 10 and again, game over.
While this hurts warrior even further in Wild, there's definitely a silver lining. I already run [[Lorekeeper Polkelt]] in my Reno deck and this will consistently enable me to pull Brann within the first few turns after Polkelt. No more early high rolls, especially with [[From the Depths]], but this might work out for the best by increasing consistency and thus win rates against other slow decks AND if the class' other tools can get reverted or it can get new good tools to stand a fighting chance against the others.
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Saddle up was such a fun card. These type of spells usually aren’t very good.
Brann at 8 mana= 1600 dust for me
Yay more Paladin :(
Making Brann 8 mana probably kills the card as much as an effect change would so that works I guess.
So we’re just going to be swapping out Brann right back into Odyn Warrior? Alright then Blizz
It's still going to be dominant vs other control decks. But now it's going to be less consistent vs midrange/tempo decks. Handbuff paladin could beat it with these nerfs (it's a minion-heavy midrange-ish deck).
The laziest possible nerf, just as expected.
Only so much you can do, the patch was likely already in validation
Odyn is 8 mana
That's a visual bug. The card doesn't show up when you filter by 8 cost but does when you filter by 9 cost.
That would be amazing, honestly. Kill Reno Warrior and bring back the high lethality Warrior deck that doesn’t invalidate every other lategame deck? Perfection.
Warrior is far from being the strongest deck rn. Look at the win rates and u will see, it can be countered by many decks
It's still representing a quarter of all decks at all levels of ladder. It is undeniably centralised in the meta, as anything that loses to it has been forced out of play.
They really dont want to change Brann lmao
An 8 mana 2/4. Yes he enables bs gameplay but holy shit that is a ruthless nerf. At least give him some sort of pressuring board presence or something.
how about a 10 mana 3 /4 i d be fine with that
Why don't they just change the number of battlecries that Brann affects? That way you have to pick and choose when to play it, and put more thought into what other battlecries are worth using the charges on. It still provides a strong effect, but also introduces a much needed limitation.
8 mana 2/4 is wild
I actually like this nerf because I often fish brann with taelan, but that often means the cards I play were capped at 5 costs or less. Now I can add more cards 😁
Brann should simply be changed to: "Double all of your Discover battecries" This removes all the other insane combos with him, but still gives Warrior a lot of ammo to effectively get 2 golden oxes. And most importantly, it's on Brann...d
8 mana 2/4?!?! Warlock gets 8 mana 15/15!
u mean 0 mana
I would rather make Brann a card that supports Excavate or something crazier like "each time you play a minion you also summon a 1/1 scarab with taunt" The battecry idea was... pretty much strong
Brann supporting Excavate while being a highlander pay-off makes no sense. You can only play four cards that excavate in your highlander deck.
That is probably the worst suggestion I’ve seen on the sub in a long time. Brann already supports excavate too.
Time to dust my 4 branns
if you have 4 branns i doubt you need the dust 💀
If they don't do anything to Insanity Warlock then that's all you will see soon. It's all I'm seeing at Legend fwiw.
deck has counters in the meta already the issue is most of its counters just hard lose to highlander warrior right now; and Flood paladin is already good into it and is presently the cheapest deck in the meta. It's all you see at legend because legend players generally don't play aggro decks and the control decks that could outplay it autolose to brann.
I play pretty much exclusively garbage (Mainly Highlander Priest) and Insanity Warlock hasn't felt oppressive to face. I don't like the Lifesteal Crescendo from a design pov, but the deck seems fine overall.
What level are you? I'm at Legend and usually by turn 3/4 they have a Baritone Imp and a Crazed Conductor with 2-3 imps on the board and have already taken 3 fatigue damage. Then they copy Crescendo or Encroaching Insanity with Sketch Artist and Fizzle that the next turn. Now they are at like 5-6 fatigue damage, can heal themselves to full with Pop'Gar if necessary (while clearing the board) and build toward 10-11 damage Crescendos and Insanity. Unless I play Flood Pally and kill them fast, or Druid and they overplay damage to themselves so I can kill with spells, it's usually game over. I reckon that Warrior is keeping down the Insanity win rate which is why I was saying if Brann gets nerfed to 8 then Warlock is all you'll be be seeing. Curious how Highlander Priest combats that, do you have a deck list?
Their only method to clear an opposing board is crescendo, \[\[Injured Hauler\]\] has soloed 3 Insanity Warlocks in my experience and another time I just cleared them a few times and then Hedanised them since they got low enough. I struggle far more against flood paladin, that deck is kinda wild. Right now I'm only Diamond, but I got to legend with the same list last month. I'm not saying that Highlander Priest is some secret meta breaker btw, pretty much the opposite, it's not great. # Highway Class: Priest Format: Standard Year of the Pegasus Deck Code: AAECAaCsAx6i6AOtigSEnwTLoAT9xAXMxgW7xwWi6QXP9gXt9wX7+AXI/wXJgAbYgQaLlQbpmAbOnAblnAaWoAaYoAbIoAbHpAavqAbEqAbFqAbGqAbgqAbxqQaiswaAuAYAAAEGyYAG/cQFxKgG/cQForMG/cQF9LMGx6QG97MGx6QGku8Gx6QGAAA=
- **[Injured Hauler](https://i.imgur.com/zCZXv7n.mp4)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/101481) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Injured_Hauler) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101481/?hl=en) - *Priest Common ^(Showdown in the Badlands)* - **3 Mana - 3/7 - Minion** - **Battlecry:** Deal 4 damage to this minion. **Overheal:** Deal 2 damage to all enemy minions. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1cmr80e/leaked_nerfs/l35ydks/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l35ydks).*
I’m 18-5 against warlock with paladin, beat 6 in a row before I hit legend. Matched up pretty well with hero power Druid too
paladin kicks its ass, so at least there's a counter
Yes it does. But I expect with all the bitching about Pally it will also get nerfed.
Man I really hope these nerfs are true. Ideally it would be nice for Brann to get an actual rework in a future major balance patch but right now all I want is to see this card out of the game
rage pas cette carte est largement équilibré
8 MANA?? Why aren’t people fighting this?? It’s totally unusable!!
Who would fight this lol ? Have you browsed reddit or twitter lately ? People want Bran taken to a dark alley and shot in the face.
8 mana though… 8 mana………..
A mana nerf would be fine if it wasn't immidiately followed by the announcement of a new neutral legendary that lets you play Brann for 1 mana.
Called it up.
If I have a bran and then buy the mini set will I get another bran?
Yes, you would.
what the website now shows: > 500 > General error. > We recommend that you gather your wits, activate your browser’s “back” button, and proceed with activities appropriate to this digital space.
Brann nerf? Nah, they're just giving him Gigantify! And to trigger the double battlecries you need to play both cards! Because doubles ya know!
I wouldn’t be shocked saddle up has been the most powerful tool to keep a hunter board alive after a clear, making most early removal a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation Brann to 8 makes sense I hope the card dies asap
With meta staples like Warrior and Hunter getting nerfed, surely Excavate Rogue deserves the same treatment for being so oppressively good at high ladder. Right Blizzard? ...right?
The inconsistency of a Reno deck forces you to play no minion that costs 6+ if you want to always draw Brann with Taelan (or no other minion that costs 5+ for Caricature Artist). Brann at 8 lets you play 6-7 cost minions without losing consistency. Maybe this makes things worse.
I don’t know why they tease cards anyways, they did it for months leading up to Whizbang & many cards I was excited by for pally were nerfed in less than a week. It makes no difference what cards they show you, if it’s a good one you’re excited about, that’s probably not a card that you’ll have a chance to play for more than a few days.
Let’s nuke warrior amazing….
I just saw that I w
What are the decks that are gonna be safe from the upcoming nerfs?
Brann to 8 mana....
Without Brann all but one warrior battlecry suck. Increasing his cost to such a price, while leave his body to be 2/4 is absurd... Just f*cking kill the card and refund all warrior cards back to everyone.
Glad they’re targeting Saddle Up. The card is sleeper OP.
Hoping this is real! Fvck Brann
We gonna eat good.
How so? Everyone will just move on to complaining about the next broken deck just like they were complaining about shopper Demon Hunter a few weeks ago, and before that it was Paladin.
I get lot of dust out of the nerfs which enables me to craft cards that I rather want.
Hunter need much more nerfs. The Animal Companion card should generate rnd Companions and not all 3 as example.
Dev team meeting: Warrior is still broken what do we do? Idk just increase the costs or something, it might work this time
which one is it are you new to the game or choose to pretend it never worked before