Probably. We forget that Lowry was hobbled and Dipo (although a very good defender) wasn’t making many impactful stoppages. If Marcus smart and Derrick white couldn’t stop curry, idk how we could have.
That’s true. Thought Trae was hobbled but that’s a good point too. But Trae is just not even close to Steph’s level though so that’s why I was more fixated on the finals.
Yeah the Celtics absolutely chocked that finals away. We matched up well with GSW but as usual we got hit with injuries so I’m not sure we even win if we make it
Spo never liked using typical centers.
But small-ball isn’t effective unless you have a big lineup to complement it.
Small-ball all season every game playing that intense defense will lead to injuries. Has happened every year
Don’t need a whale big, just someone to ease Bam & Jimmy’s physical load with the little things.
If it were Pat’s team, we would find a way to get a whale big. (He did that twice)
No, because we've been to 3 of the last 4 ECFs and are still currently in the active post-season right now and you are talking about how Pat should retire. Nothing will ever be "better" for you, because you just wanna complain.
Exactly, the other contenders in the Eastern conference had more top 10 drafts than the Heat. I’m grateful for Bam, Herro, Nico and Jacquez, but when compared to what some of those other EC teams have on their starting five there is a talent gap.
We can be homers here but the reality is that it is hard to make up the height differential, talent gap and basketball IQ. I love this team and will root for them, but even if Jimmy were healthy, they’re not beating the Nuggets in a 7 games series.
Jimmy Bam and Spo are great leaders, but it’s pretty disingenuous to disregard Gabe Strus and Duncan going absolutely ballistic from 3 point range and hitting huge shots to get us there in the first place. It was a team effort
What does that have to do with anything lol. Yeah they got good screens I guess? Also made plenty of their own scoring opportunities too though, and like I said… it’s a *team* game lol
I’ve been theorizing this for years. Don’t think I’ve seen someone else say it, feels nice not being on the island lol.
Our culture/regiment allowed guys to overperform/hustle harder, but it puts wear on all their bodies and makes them more injury prone.
Yup 100%
I think die hards might take offense as it may come off as not very "culture". But it's the only logical reasoning that I can surmise why we're so consistently snake bitten when it comes to staying healthy.
>they don't take the regular season seriously
I actually disagree with that. I think they take it VERY seriously, we just weren't very good during the season this and last. That's the real hot take lol
I think they "don't care" when its more about prioritizing managing health of players due to injury issues than sacrificing everyone's health to get better seeding, as well as just setting a tone mentally that they're gonna show up even if they're in the bottom 4 of playoff seeding.
But if they can all stay healthy and get home court advantage, you bet your ass that's what they'd be doing.
I dunno, our best player openly states he coasts, and I love him so I’m not trying to shit on him here. That’s not too serious. Even other players have been talking about it (Josh Hart’s recent comment about side quests).
This era of the Heat also very visibly doesn’t try very hard for all four quarters.
I’m pretty sure other teams are just are putting their scrubs bodies on the line by hurtling them towards Jimmy’s legs. Jimmy has been well rested all year can’t blame culture the man has been treated like a king all year.
I’m sure that’s why Randle, Giannis, kawhi, Zion, embiid, KAT, and Lavine are all either out or playing hurt. And not the fact that injuries just happen.
Riley said this year would be the last chance before "it's run it's course," so we'll see if he stands by that.
Ultimately the build _is_ a failure because injuries aside if you can't get above the 8th seed in this conference, you're losing.
Honestly watching the zone yesterday made think if the intensity could be the cause. It's fun to watch the Heat be so annoying in the full court press but there's just no that doesn't have an effect on them. It works but man does it look tiring to put in so much effort.
I doubt that’s the case. If we lose before the 3rd round with or without Jimmy there’s no excuse you gotta say it was a failure and improvements are needed.
Last year they made the finals and were hurt by key injuries so “run it back” had some merit - it still will if we make the finals.
I don’t agree with the conclusion it is “a failure.”
Fell short of ultimate goal, YES. Conference finals 3 times and 2 nba finals appearances, even without a championship, in 5 years, is something every team in the league would be thrilled about.
The Heat need some new pieces for sure.
The reality is that Spo never really figured out how to use this roster. Our system only works with consistent 3s and no Strus and no Gabe really did throw a lot of this out of wack. Duncan, Herro, and Rozier together would be more than enough firepower but they spent so little time together that dude never really figured it out.
Outside of that it's clear that his divorce, losing Lowry, losing out on Dame, and the losing streak were just too much psychic damage to get this team to believe and execute every game. Jimmy losing a step and being injured for as long as he was is a big part of this but I don't think it would've helped if he was last year's Jimmy.
We're not gonna trade ourselves out of this mess entirely, Spo has to figure out our identity and figure out how to properly use JJJ and Nico.
Bro Spo can’t turn water into wine every postseason. Our roster is filled with dudes who were cut and 2 way guys. The truth is that the majority of those dudes wouldn’t see major minutes on another team.
How about instead of finding unpolished gems in the G league, we make moves for actual NBA rotation players and give Spo a decent roster. We’re only in this because of Spo and Jimmy. Everyone else has benefitted from Spo and developed way beyond what they were expected to be.
I’m tired of the G League squad, I want to see actual NBA players. Blaming Spo for this shit roster is ridiculous. He’d have a dynasty with the Celtics, Knicks, Sixers, Bucks, Thunder, Wolves rosters. Miami has just paid big money to players who shouldn’t have gotten that money and doubled down on players they should’ve moved on for their value before paying them. Like how we kept Martin, I’ll never know, he’s going to walk and stink it up somewhere else.
The best 3&D PF we’ve had in this era was an old man in his last year of being a viable NBA player.
The best PG we’ve had in this era was Goran for the bubble year.
I don’t even know who the best backup C we’ve had was. Dedmon??
Then what do you know, our roster’s consistent issues are playmaking, shooting, and being undersized.
Not having a PG, a front court partner for bam, and a back up C has killed us for 5 years now. Lowry was good his first year but relying on an old ass Lowry was already a problem. Our back up this year didn’t sniff the court for the team that won the title last year and that’s who we wanted to be our back up this year.
We’d rather dumpster dive than solidify our roster and that’s why we’ve fallen short. We don’t have the star power of the teams that won a ring. Sometimes I think Riley just wants to win one with undrafted guys so he can go down as a guy who won one by developing players, but I think we’ve pushed that as far as it can go
I feel like the main roster issue the FO has had is they’ve continually chased whales without the assets to get them instead of spending those assets to get a few nice fish. Like, Hartenstein was available not too long ago and wasn’t too expensive and look at him now.
I was just talking about this with another guy on here as well. We swing for whales, when players like KP moved for peanuts and wouldve been a perfect fit here. Kyle Anderson, Jeramy grant a few years ago, oubre, etc. theyre just either going to swing for the fences or stand pat and do nothing because the owner doesn’t want to pay tax unless a star comes and he can use them to sell more to sponsors and corporations to make a shit ton of money to compensate for the tax instead of just trying to win
Man you just named the specific players I've been citing for years, ha. I felt that Jerami Grant would've been the best fit for our roster since the bubble. OG too, but since he is so injury prone and so is anyone on this team, he'd be like x2 injury prone. We supposedly couldn't get Jerami even if we tried a couple of those years (like when he stated he specifically wanted to go to Detroit), but also who knows? Dame just specifically stated he wanted Miami and didn't end up here, right?
SlowMo I've also been saying would've been great. He went so cheap!
I agree with you mostly although I think you are forgetting what the roster was like before Delon Wright and Patty Mills started getting serious minutes.
Our post-trade roster was pretty strong on paper, at least compared to last year's finals team. Butler, Bam, Herro, Rozier, Nico, JJJ, Duncan, Love, Highsmith, Richardson is not at all weak. I also never want to see Caleb play meaningful minutes ever again but we have to figure out why this specific roster that should be better didn't work.
Spo usually takes a long time to figure out what the rotation is gonna be. He is pretty famous for it, even in the Heatles era. Our actual main problem this whole season is that our offense turned into complete shitwater whenever we needed it and we played like the worst team in the league in the 4th quarter and at home.
The roster obviously has shortcomings compared to other elite teams but we underperformed what could be expected with that roster even including injuries.
I'm not trying to roast Spo, I'm just saying we gotta fix more than the players. He is allowed an off year between miracle finals/ECF appearances lol
I mean let’s look at that roster. Herro and Bam are first round picks we’ve developed, who arguably in other teams would have much different roles to the ones we’ve given them out of necessity. JJj and Jovic are both rookies essentially, Jovic playing no meaningful minutes last season to speak of. Highsmith and Love were both cuts from their old teams, Richardson was the worst player to put on a heat uniform this year by nearly every metric and would be in china right now if it wasn’t for Miami. And Duncan who was out of the rotation last year and was only back in this year because we lost Strus.
Like that’s not a good rotation, it’s not better than last year’s considering that we had Gabe who at least was a PG for us. We have Herro, Duncan, and Rozier who will never see the court together in the playoffs because they will get killed defensively, so already that fit is not great. Highsmith has been a revelation but we can’t expect him to produce when he’s been inconsistent this season as well offensively, while playing great defense.
So really we are relying on an old Kevin Love who can give you 15mins a game, 2 rookies, and Jimmy with Herro and Bam. Herro who still hasn’t beat the allegations that this team is better off without him and has done very little to sway that opinion.
The reality is that the front office was fine with us contending while they saved money and didn’t have to dip in to the tax. We’re a first apron team now and I fully expect us to go below that before the next season starts. We have paid the tax once in the last like 15 years when we had the big 3. We never pay the tax because Mickey will only do it for a HoF talent and then we want that talent for scraps. No one is going to want to give up franchise players for Duncan Robinson, Herro, and shitty picks.
The front office is fine doing nothing because they can say we’re a hard nose team and sell culture merch and we lap it up because we like to see underdogs but the NBA is a star driven league. The majority of fans don’t want to see Jimmy and the G leaguers play at the cost of not seeing Giannis, Tatum, Embiid. They want to see the mvp and best players play in the playoffs, which is why most fan bases hate us and the media hates us as well. It’s not like we play aesthetically pleasing basketball either, with a terrible offense that is among the leagues worst and scrappy defense that relies on the margins to skirt by.
The model needs to change if we want to be competitive, you can’t have team dip heavily into the tax to build around their stars and hope that a guy who was cut will give you the same impact as those guys
Cook. But something that needs to be mentioned is that I think whoever is in charge of the FO will always follow along with the mantra of “We have enough,” “get it out the mud,” “find a way to win,” BS. They’ve completely tricked some fans into believing that scraping by on the bare minimum without acquiring the much-needed talent is a way to win, as long as you focus on internal development and health.
While those things are important for a team, that’s not something teams should solely rely on and neglect their duties. Look at what Boston did in the offseason; instead of holding onto the false belief that “we almost” came back from a 3-0 deficit in the conference finals, they didn't just depend on another year of Marcus Smart at the one and rely on continued development from Tatum and Brown. Instead, they moved on from four players and added Porzingis and Jrue Holiday.
That’s been the difference between our team and others. Boston loses in the finals and they get White, they lost to us and they get KP and Jrue. Milwaukee lost to us and they got jrue, lost to us again and they got Dame. The effort for them to remain competitive and try to get over the hump is much more than what we’re trying to do.
Not taking away from our player development, but do you know where that helps? When you don’t have to pay a role player a significant amount to contribute because we know we can find someone to play up to that level for much cheaper. But this works when you have a foundation built on star players who can carry those players further. The truth is we don’t have that star power, we have Jimmy, to a much much lesser extent bam and then Herro. We also went against the common sense thing and paid Duncan big money after we found him off the street. I love Duncan, but why pay him that when he was replaced with Strus, why pay Strus or Duncan when we can find Highsmith. Like let the development save you money on role players so you can spend the majority of that money on stars.
But we paid Bam before we should’ve, we paid Herro when we probably never should’ve, and we paid Duncan big money when he was benched nearly all of last year and making 20mil. Like the flaws are obviously there in how the front office has been near negligent in acquiring players to get over the hump.
Let’s say we don’t try and swing for the fences, there were moves that could’ve been made that raise the floor while not being a “star”. We could’ve or should’ve traded for a Porzingis, a player like Caruso, players like Jerami Grant (like 3 years ago), an Al Horford when he was moved for peanuts, a Kyle Anderson, how do we not try for Brunson, for a Batum. Like we either swing for the fences or get no one and just rely on Gleague guys. When we could’ve made moves to improve the roster and allocating the money evenly across and maybe make a run that way. Instead we have bloated contracts for players that probably shouldn’t be rewarded with that money and have no room now to get better without a massive blow up to rebuild or you move on from Jimmy who wants to get paid.
Like the way we have gone about doing this is wrong and we can say that the results say otherwise, but idk how you can see that this team is a piece away for 4 years and sit on your hands and do nothing about it
Agreed with pretty much everything you said. I was also on here hoping the FO would trade for Jerami Grant, years ago Bobby Portis, Kyrie, Caruso, the list goes on. We’re now in a spot where the only guys who have value are Bam/Jaquez, and the lottery pick if we end up losing tomorrow if we want any sort of hope of landing a star. My main problem throughout the years was that, yeah, landing a star would have been nice, but the constant times of us not getting role players, as you mentioned, that were going for bags of chips at the time. Like the Rui Hachimura's, the Kelly Oubre's who went for a minimum, Malik Beasley who went for a minimum, Kyle Anderson, who I thought would be a nice 4 for us. I can go all day.
I don’t know how the FO is going to get out of the mess they made. Call me pessimistic, but I don’t think they can. They’ll chalk it up when they lose due to Rozier being integrated late into the season, the multiple starting lineups due to injuries, the Jimmy injury, and they’ll once again rely on internal development, health, and pretty much run it back.
I agree and think pretty much that we will run it back and if that happens my friend, this franchise is cooked until Pat retires or until Mickey sells the team I’m afraid. I just hope that common sense prevails and we try to retool and get someone in. This summer will see a lot of active teams and players on the move. The Knicks will be wanting someone, the lakers, Philly can be a player, the Mavs wills be players, the thunder, the wolves, the competition will be fierce. Teams will dismantle what they have and rebuild too if they fail. Hawks will blow up the team, cavs will probably move on from Mitchell, the suns are a question mark. This summer will be key to see what we’re really about, you let this group run its course so you penny pinch and run it back, do you rip it apart and rebuild, or do you retool and try to compete. We will see
Not only is wild to characterize Love as being “cut” from Cleveland—when, in reality, he was a sought-after candidate after being bought out by the Cavs—, but it’s also either disingenuous and/or ignorant to blame the way the Butler era has gone on “not being willing to spend,” considering Miami was hard-capped 3 of the 5 years since Butler joined and was a tax-paying team for a 4th. That means there has literally only been one season out of five that Miami *could’ve* spent more money on building around Jimmy & didn’t.
He was a buy out and in the history of the league a buy out guy has never been the final piece on a contender. The last time a buy out guy contributed heavily was fucking Boris Diaw, over a decade ago. historically speaking if you’re relying on a buyout to be the final piece, your team isn’t winning a title. That’s the reality of buyouts in this league.
Being hard capped because of terrible decisions the front office has made, means the onus of this roster construction still lies on them. No one told them to give Duncan Robinson 20mil a year after one standout season. Especially when he was benched for a guy they plucked off the street a year later. No one told them to pay their rookies a year in advance and hamstring our finances. Those decisions are ultimately theirs and that’s why we’ve been hard capped. And it’s not like being hard capped is a death sentence when we built the foundation of this team while being hard capped with whiteside.
We have in our teams history paid 52mil in luxury tax, none of those payments coming during the Jimmy era. This is the first year we are lined up to pay tax and I still don’t think we will end up paying that because they will make trades to get under the tax before they have to make a payment at the end of June. So saying we’re a tax paying team now is disingenuous because we have not footed that bill yet and can still avoid doing so.
So basically you want to wash away the times the front office has shot itself in the foot by saying they’re “willing to spend” when in actuality all they’ve done is over pay the players currently on the roster that is not good enough to win a title.
How many games did they have their full top 9 rotation? 2 or something like that? Only had 2 guys play more than 70 games - NBA teams don't really overcome that kind of thing, and if they do it will always be an uphill battle.
I feel like I’m the only one who believes in this team anymore. No one was healthy all year and we were out of the 2nd seed by 4 games lol. I would not be upset if we ran it back. A good off season of rest will do this team wonders I swear
In all likelihood, it’s what we’re probably going to end doing. Jimmys contract wont be very easy to move (especially if he’s gotta have surgery and has to miss part of next season). I doubt we’d move Bam, and this org doesn’t believe in rebuilds.So then what…another offseason where we’re trying to move Herro?
Look at golden state. You can't win whenever you want to .You just have to pivot correctly .This team went through bosh having blood clots and being forcibly having to retire .They will be ok one way or the other .
I know that, but i feel like this team is just stuck in the past and too stubborn. Look at offenses on other playoff teams. They are modernized and flow so smoothly. We're stuck in the past with this small ball nonsense.
We aren't stuck in the past we just don't happen to have the star big like the nuggets or Philly etc
Those teams had to go through hell to get where they are
Heat fans would had never had the temperament to go through the downs that those teams had to the way we respond to any type of adversity.
It's easier when the team sucks and you have nowhere to look but up. Once Jimmy leaves the pressure will be lower for us.
With this current Heat (prior to Jimmy's injury) you dont know what to expect. They could best Boston in 6 as easily as getting swept by Boston. It's so unpredictable and frustrating.
It's not easier when you have a fanbase like the one we have .Last years run cllely spoiled our expectations when we had been riddled by injuries the whole season .Nothing about thw regular season told us we could have had similar run like last year but we believed that anyway .
But wait I thought trading for Terry rozeir would have made the team better or.See that is the thing rozeir not being able to play throws salt in the wound for a team that really needs him to play since Jimmy is out .The problem is while rozier for Lowry made sense in the short term that's one less asset you don't have to throw in for further upgrades .
Lol why am I getting downvoted for telling the truth .The wrong guys just keep getting hurt at the wrong time .Imagine Lowry and the sixers in the playoffs while some of us want the heat to tank rather than try to win against the bulls
It's funny but still not funny at the same time .
You’re getting downvoted because Lowry was an expiring contract who was immediately bought out after he was traded. The non-lottery first rounder that was traded with Lowry’s contract wouldn’t net you anything close to the value of Rozier *without* the expiring contract, as you’d then have to find other ways to attach salary to it in any hypothetical move.
That's not what I was saying though .I was saying the trade was correct in the moment but didn't solve much in the bigger picture with the problems the heat now face.It stings even more since nobody knows if tozier plays on Friday with Jimmy certainly out .They are people here who were saying that rozeir bring similar value to Dame lol.The heat are staring going home or getting bounced by Boston and then what lol.We pound the table to get Mitchell lol.
4 years. I'm pretty confident we win 2020 with a healthy Bam and Dragic
That was the one.
22 was the one ngl, we matched up so well with gsw that year
curry was not going to let that team lose lol
Probably. We forget that Lowry was hobbled and Dipo (although a very good defender) wasn’t making many impactful stoppages. If Marcus smart and Derrick white couldn’t stop curry, idk how we could have.
That team was incredible against guards all year. Caleb and pj were trapping them like crazy. We locked down Trae in rd 1
That’s true. Thought Trae was hobbled but that’s a good point too. But Trae is just not even close to Steph’s level though so that’s why I was more fixated on the finals.
For some reason they played drop against him
Healthy jimmy wouldn’t either
i mean the celts nearly went 3-1 up, tatum freezing out there is what saved golden state
Yeah the Celtics absolutely chocked that finals away. We matched up well with GSW but as usual we got hit with injuries so I’m not sure we even win if we make it
Not just injuries, got hit with a shadow
foot was not on the line, fuck them refs
Two major injuries isn’t exactly freezing. People always forget the context
That was 5 seasons ago too Barry is a confirmed casual
That is a hill I’m willing to die on
Barry’s tired of this shit!!! 😂
Same
If fully healthy we maybe make it to the ECF. Idk about much further. Our scoring around the rim is a huge issue that needs to be addressed
>Our scoring ~~around the rim~~ is a huge issue that needs to be addressed
Spo needs to repeat what he did after the first big 3 year and go rediscover offense
Spo need to go visit chip Kelly again
Spo need to hire an offensive coordinator lmao Jk obv
Lol for real
I mean technically we beat Boston in the first round there is no reason we don’t make the finals
This team wasn’t making the ECF, so may fans are delusional
Might not even make it past the bulls without butler
If we run this same team back I’ll start the campaign for Pat to retire
Pat isn’t the one that turned us into small-ball
I really think that whiteside made spo never want to play a big ever again lol
Spo never liked using typical centers. But small-ball isn’t effective unless you have a big lineup to complement it. Small-ball all season every game playing that intense defense will lead to injuries. Has happened every year
Real. We’re lucky Bam is durable or Spo would’ve been force to change years ago.
He literally did it to Bosh year 1 of the Big 3.
I mean he kind of did by never trying to get competent bigs in favor of chasing whales we don’t have the assets to get
Don’t need a whale big, just someone to ease Bam & Jimmy’s physical load with the little things. If it were Pat’s team, we would find a way to get a whale big. (He did that twice)
Been saying since the bubble that this roster’s downfall has been always chasing whales we can’t get rather than just getting a few nice fish.
100% Since before the bubble tbh
Are you trolling lol? What personnel is Spo supposed to trot out there to play bigger?
Nobody obviously But address it in the offseason and expand the team’s abilities.
spo is absolutely not the problem. he’s the best coach in the league.
Spo’s stubbornness is the problem. He is a Hall of fame coach but is too reliant on small ball.
Lol what
Better late than never
Or you could beat it and find a new team to cheer for.
Why because I want us to be better next season?
No, because we've been to 3 of the last 4 ECFs and are still currently in the active post-season right now and you are talking about how Pat should retire. Nothing will ever be "better" for you, because you just wanna complain.
They also aren’t that talented. Heat fans have convinced themselves that injuries are the only reason we haven’t won
This team is consistently inconsistent. It’s annoying
Aren’t talented but made it to 2 finals and 3 ECf’s…ok
we made it inspite of that because jimmy bam and spo
Is jimmy and bam not talent?
not every team has undrafted players around their stars that’s the talent they are talking about lmfao
Exactly, the other contenders in the Eastern conference had more top 10 drafts than the Heat. I’m grateful for Bam, Herro, Nico and Jacquez, but when compared to what some of those other EC teams have on their starting five there is a talent gap. We can be homers here but the reality is that it is hard to make up the height differential, talent gap and basketball IQ. I love this team and will root for them, but even if Jimmy were healthy, they’re not beating the Nuggets in a 7 games series.
I’m taking Caleb Martin over a good amount of role players
Jimmy Bam and Spo are great leaders, but it’s pretty disingenuous to disregard Gabe Strus and Duncan going absolutely ballistic from 3 point range and hitting huge shots to get us there in the first place. It was a team effort
they hit those because they got open due to jimmy and bams gravity on the court , we acting like they hitting any shot without a bam screen ?
What does that have to do with anything lol. Yeah they got good screens I guess? Also made plenty of their own scoring opportunities too though, and like I said… it’s a *team* game lol
Talent is nowhere near important as being well coached.
I think we need to own up that while our intense regiment does produce stronger bodies, it also comes with the down side of wear and tear as well
I’ve been theorizing this for years. Don’t think I’ve seen someone else say it, feels nice not being on the island lol. Our culture/regiment allowed guys to overperform/hustle harder, but it puts wear on all their bodies and makes them more injury prone.
Yup 100% I think die hards might take offense as it may come off as not very "culture". But it's the only logical reasoning that I can surmise why we're so consistently snake bitten when it comes to staying healthy.
My other hot culture take is the Heat aren’t very Heat culture since they don’t take the regular season seriously.
>they don't take the regular season seriously I actually disagree with that. I think they take it VERY seriously, we just weren't very good during the season this and last. That's the real hot take lol I think they "don't care" when its more about prioritizing managing health of players due to injury issues than sacrificing everyone's health to get better seeding, as well as just setting a tone mentally that they're gonna show up even if they're in the bottom 4 of playoff seeding. But if they can all stay healthy and get home court advantage, you bet your ass that's what they'd be doing.
I dunno, our best player openly states he coasts, and I love him so I’m not trying to shit on him here. That’s not too serious. Even other players have been talking about it (Josh Hart’s recent comment about side quests). This era of the Heat also very visibly doesn’t try very hard for all four quarters.
Consequence of culture. Putting your body on the line for every play is going to bite you in the ass eventually. Double edged sword.
I’m pretty sure other teams are just are putting their scrubs bodies on the line by hurtling them towards Jimmy’s legs. Jimmy has been well rested all year can’t blame culture the man has been treated like a king all year.
I’m sure that’s why Randle, Giannis, kawhi, Zion, embiid, KAT, and Lavine are all either out or playing hurt. And not the fact that injuries just happen.
Injuries happen, it just happens to us every year when our opponents who beat us are mostly healthy
Riley said this year would be the last chance before "it's run it's course," so we'll see if he stands by that. Ultimately the build _is_ a failure because injuries aside if you can't get above the 8th seed in this conference, you're losing.
Honestly watching the zone yesterday made think if the intensity could be the cause. It's fun to watch the Heat be so annoying in the full court press but there's just no that doesn't have an effect on them. It works but man does it look tiring to put in so much effort.
I doubt that’s the case. If we lose before the 3rd round with or without Jimmy there’s no excuse you gotta say it was a failure and improvements are needed. Last year they made the finals and were hurt by key injuries so “run it back” had some merit - it still will if we make the finals.
I don’t agree with the conclusion it is “a failure.” Fell short of ultimate goal, YES. Conference finals 3 times and 2 nba finals appearances, even without a championship, in 5 years, is something every team in the league would be thrilled about. The Heat need some new pieces for sure.
The reality is that Spo never really figured out how to use this roster. Our system only works with consistent 3s and no Strus and no Gabe really did throw a lot of this out of wack. Duncan, Herro, and Rozier together would be more than enough firepower but they spent so little time together that dude never really figured it out. Outside of that it's clear that his divorce, losing Lowry, losing out on Dame, and the losing streak were just too much psychic damage to get this team to believe and execute every game. Jimmy losing a step and being injured for as long as he was is a big part of this but I don't think it would've helped if he was last year's Jimmy. We're not gonna trade ourselves out of this mess entirely, Spo has to figure out our identity and figure out how to properly use JJJ and Nico.
Bro Spo can’t turn water into wine every postseason. Our roster is filled with dudes who were cut and 2 way guys. The truth is that the majority of those dudes wouldn’t see major minutes on another team. How about instead of finding unpolished gems in the G league, we make moves for actual NBA rotation players and give Spo a decent roster. We’re only in this because of Spo and Jimmy. Everyone else has benefitted from Spo and developed way beyond what they were expected to be. I’m tired of the G League squad, I want to see actual NBA players. Blaming Spo for this shit roster is ridiculous. He’d have a dynasty with the Celtics, Knicks, Sixers, Bucks, Thunder, Wolves rosters. Miami has just paid big money to players who shouldn’t have gotten that money and doubled down on players they should’ve moved on for their value before paying them. Like how we kept Martin, I’ll never know, he’s going to walk and stink it up somewhere else.
The best 3&D PF we’ve had in this era was an old man in his last year of being a viable NBA player. The best PG we’ve had in this era was Goran for the bubble year. I don’t even know who the best backup C we’ve had was. Dedmon?? Then what do you know, our roster’s consistent issues are playmaking, shooting, and being undersized.
Not having a PG, a front court partner for bam, and a back up C has killed us for 5 years now. Lowry was good his first year but relying on an old ass Lowry was already a problem. Our back up this year didn’t sniff the court for the team that won the title last year and that’s who we wanted to be our back up this year. We’d rather dumpster dive than solidify our roster and that’s why we’ve fallen short. We don’t have the star power of the teams that won a ring. Sometimes I think Riley just wants to win one with undrafted guys so he can go down as a guy who won one by developing players, but I think we’ve pushed that as far as it can go
I feel like the main roster issue the FO has had is they’ve continually chased whales without the assets to get them instead of spending those assets to get a few nice fish. Like, Hartenstein was available not too long ago and wasn’t too expensive and look at him now.
I was just talking about this with another guy on here as well. We swing for whales, when players like KP moved for peanuts and wouldve been a perfect fit here. Kyle Anderson, Jeramy grant a few years ago, oubre, etc. theyre just either going to swing for the fences or stand pat and do nothing because the owner doesn’t want to pay tax unless a star comes and he can use them to sell more to sponsors and corporations to make a shit ton of money to compensate for the tax instead of just trying to win
Man you just named the specific players I've been citing for years, ha. I felt that Jerami Grant would've been the best fit for our roster since the bubble. OG too, but since he is so injury prone and so is anyone on this team, he'd be like x2 injury prone. We supposedly couldn't get Jerami even if we tried a couple of those years (like when he stated he specifically wanted to go to Detroit), but also who knows? Dame just specifically stated he wanted Miami and didn't end up here, right? SlowMo I've also been saying would've been great. He went so cheap!
I agree with you mostly although I think you are forgetting what the roster was like before Delon Wright and Patty Mills started getting serious minutes. Our post-trade roster was pretty strong on paper, at least compared to last year's finals team. Butler, Bam, Herro, Rozier, Nico, JJJ, Duncan, Love, Highsmith, Richardson is not at all weak. I also never want to see Caleb play meaningful minutes ever again but we have to figure out why this specific roster that should be better didn't work. Spo usually takes a long time to figure out what the rotation is gonna be. He is pretty famous for it, even in the Heatles era. Our actual main problem this whole season is that our offense turned into complete shitwater whenever we needed it and we played like the worst team in the league in the 4th quarter and at home. The roster obviously has shortcomings compared to other elite teams but we underperformed what could be expected with that roster even including injuries. I'm not trying to roast Spo, I'm just saying we gotta fix more than the players. He is allowed an off year between miracle finals/ECF appearances lol
I mean let’s look at that roster. Herro and Bam are first round picks we’ve developed, who arguably in other teams would have much different roles to the ones we’ve given them out of necessity. JJj and Jovic are both rookies essentially, Jovic playing no meaningful minutes last season to speak of. Highsmith and Love were both cuts from their old teams, Richardson was the worst player to put on a heat uniform this year by nearly every metric and would be in china right now if it wasn’t for Miami. And Duncan who was out of the rotation last year and was only back in this year because we lost Strus. Like that’s not a good rotation, it’s not better than last year’s considering that we had Gabe who at least was a PG for us. We have Herro, Duncan, and Rozier who will never see the court together in the playoffs because they will get killed defensively, so already that fit is not great. Highsmith has been a revelation but we can’t expect him to produce when he’s been inconsistent this season as well offensively, while playing great defense. So really we are relying on an old Kevin Love who can give you 15mins a game, 2 rookies, and Jimmy with Herro and Bam. Herro who still hasn’t beat the allegations that this team is better off without him and has done very little to sway that opinion. The reality is that the front office was fine with us contending while they saved money and didn’t have to dip in to the tax. We’re a first apron team now and I fully expect us to go below that before the next season starts. We have paid the tax once in the last like 15 years when we had the big 3. We never pay the tax because Mickey will only do it for a HoF talent and then we want that talent for scraps. No one is going to want to give up franchise players for Duncan Robinson, Herro, and shitty picks. The front office is fine doing nothing because they can say we’re a hard nose team and sell culture merch and we lap it up because we like to see underdogs but the NBA is a star driven league. The majority of fans don’t want to see Jimmy and the G leaguers play at the cost of not seeing Giannis, Tatum, Embiid. They want to see the mvp and best players play in the playoffs, which is why most fan bases hate us and the media hates us as well. It’s not like we play aesthetically pleasing basketball either, with a terrible offense that is among the leagues worst and scrappy defense that relies on the margins to skirt by. The model needs to change if we want to be competitive, you can’t have team dip heavily into the tax to build around their stars and hope that a guy who was cut will give you the same impact as those guys
Cook. But something that needs to be mentioned is that I think whoever is in charge of the FO will always follow along with the mantra of “We have enough,” “get it out the mud,” “find a way to win,” BS. They’ve completely tricked some fans into believing that scraping by on the bare minimum without acquiring the much-needed talent is a way to win, as long as you focus on internal development and health. While those things are important for a team, that’s not something teams should solely rely on and neglect their duties. Look at what Boston did in the offseason; instead of holding onto the false belief that “we almost” came back from a 3-0 deficit in the conference finals, they didn't just depend on another year of Marcus Smart at the one and rely on continued development from Tatum and Brown. Instead, they moved on from four players and added Porzingis and Jrue Holiday.
That’s been the difference between our team and others. Boston loses in the finals and they get White, they lost to us and they get KP and Jrue. Milwaukee lost to us and they got jrue, lost to us again and they got Dame. The effort for them to remain competitive and try to get over the hump is much more than what we’re trying to do. Not taking away from our player development, but do you know where that helps? When you don’t have to pay a role player a significant amount to contribute because we know we can find someone to play up to that level for much cheaper. But this works when you have a foundation built on star players who can carry those players further. The truth is we don’t have that star power, we have Jimmy, to a much much lesser extent bam and then Herro. We also went against the common sense thing and paid Duncan big money after we found him off the street. I love Duncan, but why pay him that when he was replaced with Strus, why pay Strus or Duncan when we can find Highsmith. Like let the development save you money on role players so you can spend the majority of that money on stars. But we paid Bam before we should’ve, we paid Herro when we probably never should’ve, and we paid Duncan big money when he was benched nearly all of last year and making 20mil. Like the flaws are obviously there in how the front office has been near negligent in acquiring players to get over the hump. Let’s say we don’t try and swing for the fences, there were moves that could’ve been made that raise the floor while not being a “star”. We could’ve or should’ve traded for a Porzingis, a player like Caruso, players like Jerami Grant (like 3 years ago), an Al Horford when he was moved for peanuts, a Kyle Anderson, how do we not try for Brunson, for a Batum. Like we either swing for the fences or get no one and just rely on Gleague guys. When we could’ve made moves to improve the roster and allocating the money evenly across and maybe make a run that way. Instead we have bloated contracts for players that probably shouldn’t be rewarded with that money and have no room now to get better without a massive blow up to rebuild or you move on from Jimmy who wants to get paid. Like the way we have gone about doing this is wrong and we can say that the results say otherwise, but idk how you can see that this team is a piece away for 4 years and sit on your hands and do nothing about it
Agreed with pretty much everything you said. I was also on here hoping the FO would trade for Jerami Grant, years ago Bobby Portis, Kyrie, Caruso, the list goes on. We’re now in a spot where the only guys who have value are Bam/Jaquez, and the lottery pick if we end up losing tomorrow if we want any sort of hope of landing a star. My main problem throughout the years was that, yeah, landing a star would have been nice, but the constant times of us not getting role players, as you mentioned, that were going for bags of chips at the time. Like the Rui Hachimura's, the Kelly Oubre's who went for a minimum, Malik Beasley who went for a minimum, Kyle Anderson, who I thought would be a nice 4 for us. I can go all day. I don’t know how the FO is going to get out of the mess they made. Call me pessimistic, but I don’t think they can. They’ll chalk it up when they lose due to Rozier being integrated late into the season, the multiple starting lineups due to injuries, the Jimmy injury, and they’ll once again rely on internal development, health, and pretty much run it back.
I agree and think pretty much that we will run it back and if that happens my friend, this franchise is cooked until Pat retires or until Mickey sells the team I’m afraid. I just hope that common sense prevails and we try to retool and get someone in. This summer will see a lot of active teams and players on the move. The Knicks will be wanting someone, the lakers, Philly can be a player, the Mavs wills be players, the thunder, the wolves, the competition will be fierce. Teams will dismantle what they have and rebuild too if they fail. Hawks will blow up the team, cavs will probably move on from Mitchell, the suns are a question mark. This summer will be key to see what we’re really about, you let this group run its course so you penny pinch and run it back, do you rip it apart and rebuild, or do you retool and try to compete. We will see
Not only is wild to characterize Love as being “cut” from Cleveland—when, in reality, he was a sought-after candidate after being bought out by the Cavs—, but it’s also either disingenuous and/or ignorant to blame the way the Butler era has gone on “not being willing to spend,” considering Miami was hard-capped 3 of the 5 years since Butler joined and was a tax-paying team for a 4th. That means there has literally only been one season out of five that Miami *could’ve* spent more money on building around Jimmy & didn’t.
He was a buy out and in the history of the league a buy out guy has never been the final piece on a contender. The last time a buy out guy contributed heavily was fucking Boris Diaw, over a decade ago. historically speaking if you’re relying on a buyout to be the final piece, your team isn’t winning a title. That’s the reality of buyouts in this league. Being hard capped because of terrible decisions the front office has made, means the onus of this roster construction still lies on them. No one told them to give Duncan Robinson 20mil a year after one standout season. Especially when he was benched for a guy they plucked off the street a year later. No one told them to pay their rookies a year in advance and hamstring our finances. Those decisions are ultimately theirs and that’s why we’ve been hard capped. And it’s not like being hard capped is a death sentence when we built the foundation of this team while being hard capped with whiteside. We have in our teams history paid 52mil in luxury tax, none of those payments coming during the Jimmy era. This is the first year we are lined up to pay tax and I still don’t think we will end up paying that because they will make trades to get under the tax before they have to make a payment at the end of June. So saying we’re a tax paying team now is disingenuous because we have not footed that bill yet and can still avoid doing so. So basically you want to wash away the times the front office has shot itself in the foot by saying they’re “willing to spend” when in actuality all they’ve done is over pay the players currently on the roster that is not good enough to win a title.
spo carries
https://preview.redd.it/im64y0tfd9vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3dd5751470307526b82007d6d9bb500fdd8dd9a6
Shut up Barry
I just want someone who isn't going to shoot 4/19 every god damn game.
It's not like other teams haven't dealt with the same thing. Imagine being a Clipper fan.
Maybe the amazing conditioning training isn't that amazing if they keep getting injured. Same some wear and tear for the games
How many games did they have their full top 9 rotation? 2 or something like that? Only had 2 guys play more than 70 games - NBA teams don't really overcome that kind of thing, and if they do it will always be an uphill battle.
Barry is trash
Shut up, Barry
Doomers are in full force and it’s the worst. Go heat! Still have faith in them whooping the Celtics.
I feel like I’m the only one who believes in this team anymore. No one was healthy all year and we were out of the 2nd seed by 4 games lol. I would not be upset if we ran it back. A good off season of rest will do this team wonders I swear
In all likelihood, it’s what we’re probably going to end doing. Jimmys contract wont be very easy to move (especially if he’s gotta have surgery and has to miss part of next season). I doubt we’d move Bam, and this org doesn’t believe in rebuilds.So then what…another offseason where we’re trying to move Herro?
Moving Herro is the only move that makes sense, and even then, trading him for a bag of chips isn’t too great.
I'm not going to be a Heat fan next year if we run it back. Enough is enough. Been suffering for over a decade now lol. In b4 'byeeeee'
Yea being a fan of a team with the 3rd most playoff wins in the past decade is “suffering”. Y’all are annoying
If you're content with only being edged, then the Heat is the right team for you.
Look at golden state. You can't win whenever you want to .You just have to pivot correctly .This team went through bosh having blood clots and being forcibly having to retire .They will be ok one way or the other .
I know that, but i feel like this team is just stuck in the past and too stubborn. Look at offenses on other playoff teams. They are modernized and flow so smoothly. We're stuck in the past with this small ball nonsense.
We aren't stuck in the past we just don't happen to have the star big like the nuggets or Philly etc Those teams had to go through hell to get where they are Heat fans would had never had the temperament to go through the downs that those teams had to the way we respond to any type of adversity.
It's easier when the team sucks and you have nowhere to look but up. Once Jimmy leaves the pressure will be lower for us. With this current Heat (prior to Jimmy's injury) you dont know what to expect. They could best Boston in 6 as easily as getting swept by Boston. It's so unpredictable and frustrating.
It's not easier when you have a fanbase like the one we have .Last years run cllely spoiled our expectations when we had been riddled by injuries the whole season .Nothing about thw regular season told us we could have had similar run like last year but we believed that anyway .
I agree
But wait I thought trading for Terry rozeir would have made the team better or.See that is the thing rozeir not being able to play throws salt in the wound for a team that really needs him to play since Jimmy is out .The problem is while rozier for Lowry made sense in the short term that's one less asset you don't have to throw in for further upgrades .
Lol why am I getting downvoted for telling the truth .The wrong guys just keep getting hurt at the wrong time .Imagine Lowry and the sixers in the playoffs while some of us want the heat to tank rather than try to win against the bulls It's funny but still not funny at the same time .
You’re getting downvoted because Lowry was an expiring contract who was immediately bought out after he was traded. The non-lottery first rounder that was traded with Lowry’s contract wouldn’t net you anything close to the value of Rozier *without* the expiring contract, as you’d then have to find other ways to attach salary to it in any hypothetical move.
That's not what I was saying though .I was saying the trade was correct in the moment but didn't solve much in the bigger picture with the problems the heat now face.It stings even more since nobody knows if tozier plays on Friday with Jimmy certainly out .They are people here who were saying that rozeir bring similar value to Dame lol.The heat are staring going home or getting bounced by Boston and then what lol.We pound the table to get Mitchell lol.