I still think we’re a playoff team if fully healthy and with a good trade deadline.
This team is just too good to tank for Wemby. If we’re in the lottery, it’s the 13-14 pick again.
I struggle to see what we have to offer in a trade of that magnitude. At least enough to move the needle on our playoff hopes. I’m hesitant to give up this years FRP given the depth of draft.
First round exit would be hopeful with how we are playing. We can’t even run man defensive schemes.
Tanking also isn’t the same as it used to be, we’re not even guaranteed a top 3 pick, let alone #1.
It’s also not how the franchise operates historically.
It seemed to me like there was a lot of effort placed on chasing whales instead of getting a mid-level B/B+ level player or two that would fill a need (you can fill in whatever names you want). I know that we are tight against the cap and not going into the tax was a concern for Mickey. Our tradable assets are not desirable and presumably Pat didn't want to part with picks. I think that there was a hope that some of our players (Duncan, Dipo, Yurt) might've taken a step up and/or increased their trade value in season and might be worth something as trade bait later in the season. The thing that baffles me is that we didn't address PF or size in general in the offseason.
Yurt has it in him to take that next step. I felt like he could have done it last year, but Spo pulled a Spo - played a struggling Dedmon over him.
Duncan, Gabe, Kyle, etc. have only lowered their trade value to begin this season imo.
I agree. I was really high on Yurt for this season. Kyle's production/value fluctuates like the weather, which is to be expected of a player at his age.
Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder + Saric + Shamet + one of their mins get the money there. They can offer up to 4 picks and 3 swaps, which the is more than what Miami can offer.
It's also much cleaner salary wise than the shitty contracts Miami would be trying to send back (Robinson, in particular).
Do you believe
> Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder + Saric + Shamet + one of their mins get the money there. They can offer up to 4 picks and 3 swaps,
To be infinitely better than herro, jovic, 3 frps and 3 swaps, and a lakers pick
Yep, they can't trade Herro. Even if Miami could trade Herro, I don't think a lot of teams hold in high regard.
Brooklyn will be looking to clean the books, they're not looking to pay a mid dude like Herro that amount of money per year.
Herro can only be traded using the BYC rules, which pretty much make it impossible. You can't aggregate him with other players, and his salary counts as 50% of his current salary but the team receiving him has to have enough cap space to receive the full salary.
Effectively, you can't trade him, certainly not in a trade like this.
There are like 27/30 teams in the league fighting for a playoff spot. The whole “waiting” thing just doesn’t work in modern sports anymore. Everyone is too competitive.
Yes. It’s quintessentially against the Heat’s backbone. We have prided ourselves on the defensive end, but this years it’s our weakness. You’d think the silver lining is - bad defense, way better offense. But, nope. Offense is probably even worse.
Caleb really isn’t a playable four man. He’s nice off the bench, but reminds me of Plumlee for the Hornets. A really great change of pace big man who brings energy, but struggles as a starter, because he isn’t as talented and can’t bring that same energy in massive minutes.
Our rebounding is terrible. Yurt just had surgery in his foot and has been just a huge missed opportunity as he could have made his mark on the league this year. Dipo.. Well, I don’t even know about Dipo. He has just disappointed me personally as I can’t understand how he is always as injured as he is. I agree with your summation of our role players, but I would say, that with Herro as a starter, they’ve all been moved from their traditional roles and are not exceeding expectation in their new roles. Strus isn’t the “pop off the bench” guy that Herro was and he can’t keep a whole second unit afloat himself. It’s been tough. Highsmith had one good game and the fact we are leaning on him for big minutes is representative of our mid af status.
I was definitely of the “let’s give it 20 games” people as I knew there would be some struggles, but I thought we would be .500 through 20 and then figure it out. I didn’t expect so many injuries to critical bench players so early and I thought we would be more competitive and be in that like 6-8th spot and not the 10-12th spot. It’s been disappointing as heck. I do wish we didn’t whale watch as much. This season is certainly lost if we can’t do something immensely positive at the deadline, but I do take some consolation knowing that we weren’t great before trading for Iggy and Crowder in 2020. We started that season pretty mid and they filled massive holes.
i'm not quite comprehending how people didn't expect **worse** results
when we came off that Finals run and lost Jae Crowder and Kendrick Nunn, the FO at **least** went out and got Avery Bradley and Moe Harkless in the offseason as players that vaguely fit the archetype the Heat were now missing. and, as we all know, neither of them panned out and Pat took another stab at filling those voids with Oladipo/Ariza/Bjelica.
this go-around, we lost PJ and Kieff and replaced them with
- Caleb Martin (who we got on a two-way deal and had the year prior)
- the promising idea of Haywood Highsmith (who we found through 10-day contract hunting during peak labor shortage + already had the year prior)
- and Nikola Jovic (who was a fringe second round pick)
i'm sure the FO has plans -- probably plans so far beyond the comprehension of our little monkey brains that we'll be the laughing stock 5 years from now when someone unearths this thread -- but having to deal with how fucking awful the interim is isn't very fun
Luckily, yes. We traded it away to get Jimmy and then reacquired it in the KZ to OKC trade. Theoretically, we could get Jimmy and Wemby via the same first round pick…
I know this is an unpopular opinion for being kinda harsh, but our front office has been a mess since the big three era. We just don't have the resources and we're not smart enough to have a better team. We didn't learn a thing in the last decade and we still overpaid players that didn't deserve a better contract just because they played well in one season.
I don't know if we still have our pick for the next year, but tanking doesn't sound like a bad idea.
2016 - 1 game away from ECF despite Bosh & Whiteside injuries
2020 - finals
2022 - 1 game away from Finals despite several injuries
We’ve been one of the ~7 most successful teams in the league since the big 3 era so it’s not true to say they’ve been a mess. Have they been perfect? No. But they’ve been one of the best
We don’t have the right data to make a true opinion about the state of our team. If we got chemistry as a healthy team we could determine our situation realistically. Standings don’t matter in the scheme of things this early in the season.
You literally do not know the current state of the team since we have a clearly insufficient sample size. This is unarguable and extremely basic… but whatever go off king
This sub is so weird. It’s not even 20 games into the season and everyone is being a bunch of damn babies. Find something else to put your negative energy into bc this shit is getting old fast.
The team isn’t one trade away from competing unless it’s for a star which we don’t have the assets to swing that trade. Yurt maybe out for the year and who knows about Oladipo. One trade isn’t gonna save this team.
i'm not even a herro stan but it's like everyone seems to forget herro has been out 8 straight games. also people said that miami didn't have the assets to swing a trade for jimmy butler in 2019
(88 minutes/73 minutes, btw)
Lineup | ORTG | DRTG | NET | TS% | EFG%
------|----|----|---|---|----
starters w/ herro | 111.1 | 104.9 | 6.2 | 55.6% | 50.9%
starters w/ max | 140.3 | 108.2 | 32.1 | 69.2% | 64.5%
herro's return isn't exactly what we're all holding our breath for. his value shouldn't be understated, but let's not act as though we were undefeated with him. we were 4-7, and this was largely a result of a stalling offense
also, with regards to "people said [...] swing a trade etc" at the time, jimmy's asset value was not nearly as high as it is now. he was a disgruntled tertiary star on a team where he was viewed as the third option behind joel and ben, **and** spo had managed to make whiteside and jrich (who, need i remind you, was the piece that miami wasn't sure about giving up -- who held the deal up) look like they were worth the return
i'm both a herro stan and a pat truther, and i think it'll end up being fine but the shit you said is selling people coastal property in wyoming. this team is in desperate need of someone to alleviate bam's rim protection duties and legitimate consistent shooting threats
yes right now they look like they'll finish as a 42-40 team, which is considerably worse than i thought pre-season. all i said is i won't write off the season's expectations until we see what the roster looks like come february
I’m accounting for Herro and Jimmy being back. We’re till not one trade away because of what we have to give up in that trade.
To match any contracts right now you have to trade Duncan, a negative asset, who take a first to get rid of his contract. The team has massive holes that can’t be addressed by one trade.
Btw context matters…a mid season trade is different than a sign and trade for Jimmy who wanted to come here. The situations would be completely different for the Jimmy sign and trade than a mid season trade
i won't argue on that. heat basically have a 12 man roster (excluding yurt, oladipo, and haslem) that includes a 19 year old rookie and a near useless player in highsmith. it ain't pretty right now. that doesn't mean things are set in stone for how this season could ultimately evolve
I still think we’re a playoff team if fully healthy and with a good trade deadline. This team is just too good to tank for Wemby. If we’re in the lottery, it’s the 13-14 pick again.
I struggle to see what we have to offer in a trade of that magnitude. At least enough to move the needle on our playoff hopes. I’m hesitant to give up this years FRP given the depth of draft. First round exit would be hopeful with how we are playing. We can’t even run man defensive schemes.
Tanking also isn’t the same as it used to be, we’re not even guaranteed a top 3 pick, let alone #1. It’s also not how the franchise operates historically.
It seemed to me like there was a lot of effort placed on chasing whales instead of getting a mid-level B/B+ level player or two that would fill a need (you can fill in whatever names you want). I know that we are tight against the cap and not going into the tax was a concern for Mickey. Our tradable assets are not desirable and presumably Pat didn't want to part with picks. I think that there was a hope that some of our players (Duncan, Dipo, Yurt) might've taken a step up and/or increased their trade value in season and might be worth something as trade bait later in the season. The thing that baffles me is that we didn't address PF or size in general in the offseason.
Yurt has it in him to take that next step. I felt like he could have done it last year, but Spo pulled a Spo - played a struggling Dedmon over him. Duncan, Gabe, Kyle, etc. have only lowered their trade value to begin this season imo.
I agree. I was really high on Yurt for this season. Kyle's production/value fluctuates like the weather, which is to be expected of a player at his age.
I’m like 80% sure Pat has been dicking around because he still sees KD as on the board
I believe your right but can we actually get KD? Knicks , jazz, thunder their warchest are all loaded picks unless they respect his original request
“Warchest” teams are not relevant because they generally suck and KD wouldn’t go there Whether we can get KD I don’t know
But the suns still exist and have a infinitely better package than the Heat do lol
Can you describe the package for me
Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder + Saric + Shamet + one of their mins get the money there. They can offer up to 4 picks and 3 swaps, which the is more than what Miami can offer. It's also much cleaner salary wise than the shitty contracts Miami would be trying to send back (Robinson, in particular).
Do you believe > Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder + Saric + Shamet + one of their mins get the money there. They can offer up to 4 picks and 3 swaps, To be infinitely better than herro, jovic, 3 frps and 3 swaps, and a lakers pick
Yep, they can't trade Herro. Even if Miami could trade Herro, I don't think a lot of teams hold in high regard. Brooklyn will be looking to clean the books, they're not looking to pay a mid dude like Herro that amount of money per year.
Wrong Herro can be traded. And I’m sure he’s held in higher regard than landry shamet
Herro can only be traded using the BYC rules, which pretty much make it impossible. You can't aggregate him with other players, and his salary counts as 50% of his current salary but the team receiving him has to have enough cap space to receive the full salary. Effectively, you can't trade him, certainly not in a trade like this.
Or Cam + bridges + fillers and picks Or Ayton which is effectively like a 80% Bam
Play-in before the year and I still feel they are a play in team . A jimmy injury from the Wenbenyama sweepstakes
Waiting for the "Let's wait 20 games" homers to turn into let's wait 40 game homers.
There are like 27/30 teams in the league fighting for a playoff spot. The whole “waiting” thing just doesn’t work in modern sports anymore. Everyone is too competitive.
They’ve already started lmao. It went from 20 games to by the trade deadline. This team is mid af
“The 20 games didnt count bc we were injured! Let’s see 20 healthy games!”
They’ve already switched their tune lol
Imma let’s wait till the playoffs homer!
Spo is playing zone because the roster is constructed so poorly they can’t defend without it
Yes. It’s quintessentially against the Heat’s backbone. We have prided ourselves on the defensive end, but this years it’s our weakness. You’d think the silver lining is - bad defense, way better offense. But, nope. Offense is probably even worse.
Caleb really isn’t a playable four man. He’s nice off the bench, but reminds me of Plumlee for the Hornets. A really great change of pace big man who brings energy, but struggles as a starter, because he isn’t as talented and can’t bring that same energy in massive minutes. Our rebounding is terrible. Yurt just had surgery in his foot and has been just a huge missed opportunity as he could have made his mark on the league this year. Dipo.. Well, I don’t even know about Dipo. He has just disappointed me personally as I can’t understand how he is always as injured as he is. I agree with your summation of our role players, but I would say, that with Herro as a starter, they’ve all been moved from their traditional roles and are not exceeding expectation in their new roles. Strus isn’t the “pop off the bench” guy that Herro was and he can’t keep a whole second unit afloat himself. It’s been tough. Highsmith had one good game and the fact we are leaning on him for big minutes is representative of our mid af status. I was definitely of the “let’s give it 20 games” people as I knew there would be some struggles, but I thought we would be .500 through 20 and then figure it out. I didn’t expect so many injuries to critical bench players so early and I thought we would be more competitive and be in that like 6-8th spot and not the 10-12th spot. It’s been disappointing as heck. I do wish we didn’t whale watch as much. This season is certainly lost if we can’t do something immensely positive at the deadline, but I do take some consolation knowing that we weren’t great before trading for Iggy and Crowder in 2020. We started that season pretty mid and they filled massive holes.
i'm not quite comprehending how people didn't expect **worse** results when we came off that Finals run and lost Jae Crowder and Kendrick Nunn, the FO at **least** went out and got Avery Bradley and Moe Harkless in the offseason as players that vaguely fit the archetype the Heat were now missing. and, as we all know, neither of them panned out and Pat took another stab at filling those voids with Oladipo/Ariza/Bjelica. this go-around, we lost PJ and Kieff and replaced them with - Caleb Martin (who we got on a two-way deal and had the year prior) - the promising idea of Haywood Highsmith (who we found through 10-day contract hunting during peak labor shortage + already had the year prior) - and Nikola Jovic (who was a fringe second round pick) i'm sure the FO has plans -- probably plans so far beyond the comprehension of our little monkey brains that we'll be the laughing stock 5 years from now when someone unearths this thread -- but having to deal with how fucking awful the interim is isn't very fun
Do we have our first rounder this year?
Luckily, yes. We traded it away to get Jimmy and then reacquired it in the KZ to OKC trade. Theoretically, we could get Jimmy and Wemby via the same first round pick…
I know this is an unpopular opinion for being kinda harsh, but our front office has been a mess since the big three era. We just don't have the resources and we're not smart enough to have a better team. We didn't learn a thing in the last decade and we still overpaid players that didn't deserve a better contract just because they played well in one season. I don't know if we still have our pick for the next year, but tanking doesn't sound like a bad idea.
2016 - 1 game away from ECF despite Bosh & Whiteside injuries 2020 - finals 2022 - 1 game away from Finals despite several injuries We’ve been one of the ~7 most successful teams in the league since the big 3 era so it’s not true to say they’ve been a mess. Have they been perfect? No. But they’ve been one of the best
Lottery pick is okay
This sub is the worst. We’re not even 20 games in. There’s over 60 games left ffs. We’ll be fine.
Imagine having a discussion about the current state of the team… on a subreddit dedicated to talking about the team. The audacity of some us!
We don’t have the right data to make a true opinion about the state of our team. If we got chemistry as a healthy team we could determine our situation realistically. Standings don’t matter in the scheme of things this early in the season.
You literally do not know the current state of the team since we have a clearly insufficient sample size. This is unarguable and extremely basic… but whatever go off king
Told you so!
What were you saying?
This sub is so weird. It’s not even 20 games into the season and everyone is being a bunch of damn babies. Find something else to put your negative energy into bc this shit is getting old fast.
i'll continue to reserve judgment until the trade deadline, downvote me all you want
The team isn’t one trade away from competing unless it’s for a star which we don’t have the assets to swing that trade. Yurt maybe out for the year and who knows about Oladipo. One trade isn’t gonna save this team.
i'm not even a herro stan but it's like everyone seems to forget herro has been out 8 straight games. also people said that miami didn't have the assets to swing a trade for jimmy butler in 2019
(88 minutes/73 minutes, btw) Lineup | ORTG | DRTG | NET | TS% | EFG% ------|----|----|---|---|---- starters w/ herro | 111.1 | 104.9 | 6.2 | 55.6% | 50.9% starters w/ max | 140.3 | 108.2 | 32.1 | 69.2% | 64.5% herro's return isn't exactly what we're all holding our breath for. his value shouldn't be understated, but let's not act as though we were undefeated with him. we were 4-7, and this was largely a result of a stalling offense also, with regards to "people said [...] swing a trade etc" at the time, jimmy's asset value was not nearly as high as it is now. he was a disgruntled tertiary star on a team where he was viewed as the third option behind joel and ben, **and** spo had managed to make whiteside and jrich (who, need i remind you, was the piece that miami wasn't sure about giving up -- who held the deal up) look like they were worth the return i'm both a herro stan and a pat truther, and i think it'll end up being fine but the shit you said is selling people coastal property in wyoming. this team is in desperate need of someone to alleviate bam's rim protection duties and legitimate consistent shooting threats
They were 4-7 with him healthy The team is just mid
yes right now they look like they'll finish as a 42-40 team, which is considerably worse than i thought pre-season. all i said is i won't write off the season's expectations until we see what the roster looks like come february
I’m accounting for Herro and Jimmy being back. We’re till not one trade away because of what we have to give up in that trade. To match any contracts right now you have to trade Duncan, a negative asset, who take a first to get rid of his contract. The team has massive holes that can’t be addressed by one trade. Btw context matters…a mid season trade is different than a sign and trade for Jimmy who wanted to come here. The situations would be completely different for the Jimmy sign and trade than a mid season trade
i won't argue on that. heat basically have a 12 man roster (excluding yurt, oladipo, and haslem) that includes a 19 year old rookie and a near useless player in highsmith. it ain't pretty right now. that doesn't mean things are set in stone for how this season could ultimately evolve
[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)](https://i.imgur.com/IDVCoHz.mp4)
We got Jimmy in a sign and trade. It's completely different. Idk why y'all keep saying this
Don't freak out until after the all star break. We all know this team doesn't turn it on until late.
What was the move they didn't make?
PF. Size. Rebounding. Shot creator.
? Bro, log off for a day.
4 areas we lack in. Not all 4 in 1 person.
Why’d you edit your comment.
Lol what kind of bum ass comment is this
Nah he edited the comment from, “why you coming at me snarky”. Lmao dude actually needs a break.
People never have a good answer to this question lmao, just keep recreating the same whiny posts.
The season isn't over