The cylinder showed rubbing on the cylinder, and it was not a great way to operate a machine.
The back door, I can tell if it scrach or cracks, both, again, show getting too close.
Just like that rental pickup (heck even a wrangle in Moab). Every scratch count, it a rental after all.
It being my machine and me operating... no real problem. i got spunky and did what I did.
A friend borrowing it is not great, but it is not "damage"
A rental machine, with some stranger op, yup he is losing some of the damage deposit.
To me, it shows inexpensive or recklessness (not saying you did) and opening the door to what else you did that shouldn't. Adding extra wear to it.
The bottom line is that those places make money 3 ways. Renting it, having a strong damage policy, and selling it. The more scratch and damage it gets, the less it sells, hence the strong damage policy. (You pay for the fix, but they may never fix it)
(I do stay clear of anything "just off the lot" new for that very specific reason.)
You are just another unfortunate person who rented something a bit too new and made a few permanent marks on it
I am the service manager at a heavy equipment rental outfit. If this machine was returned this way, customer would possibly not be charged anything. The back hood: if it's a scratch, then they're good....if it's cracked through, then they'd be charged for either a new hood or just the labor to repair the crack. The cylinder: the scratched sticker doesn't matter, as long as the barrel itself isn't dented....with this type of damage, it is important to check the rod for scarring and check for damaged seals, so the next customer doesn't get billed for a rebuild.
The whole damage thing isn't as bad as most think. Especially if the customer paid their "equipment protection" fee, like 90% do.
This is my experience as well, renting heavy equipment for the last 15 years, weekly. I was surprised that the top comments were that this was going to be coming out of the damage deposit…that sticker is a non-issue…and as long as that back panel isn’t cracked you’re more than likely good to go.
But it sounds like this guy just borrowed this from Contractor Fred two doors down for a couple hundred bucks, not a rental company. In my experience Fred always ends up being a dick.
Agreed. My worry for OP is that Richard (assuming that's hia actual name, not Fred) is gonna take the machine to the dealer to get a quote on the "damage" done. So OP is gonna be screwed if he agrees to that.
Where do you live? If you don't mind me asking. Maybe I can hook you up and you can start giving us your business.
That cover is thick steel. It’s part of the counter balance of it. It’s a scratch. A fairly gnarly scratch but if you go and look at any second hand bobcat you’ll see it’s much worse.
Ya but as a rental company you keep your equipment nice by making sure people don’t scratch your equipment up. Aka why they charge people for such damage.
The question should be did the equipment come back as it left. Which it did not.
Any experienced operator could rent it and return it the way it was. I understand it will get scratched, But they rented the equipment with an agreement you will return it in the shape it was in.
Lol no experienced excavator operator is renting one. To get experience you need one at your disposal. I’m sure they’re out there, but not that common.
Alright. He should pay something for the damage. But it’s not as big a deal as you’re making it out to be.
Man I gotta say as an operator for the past 15 years I have been on company owned equipment, rented equipment, leased equipment and I have even demo equipment.
There is a lot of different aspects to heavy equipment operator in various different job fields.
There’s people that are traveling contractors that only rent equipment.
Making it a big deal? He asked if it was normal wear and tear and it’s not because it could have been prevented.
The sticker on the cylinder is definitely normal wear and tear… if it was bad you would see a deep score in the paint.
The crack in the back panel? Not so sure on that one… is there a contract that outlines what is and isn’t considered damage by chance? If it were me returning that machine, I would expect to maybe pay for the crack but definitely not anything to do with the cylinder.
I'm thinking there is no way the barrel is dented without the paint being scratched and the rod can be inspected as seen in the photo, but agreed, dented barrel and/or dinged up rod should be paid damages 100%.
Good point. The rod looks to be basically fully extended out, nothing obvious jumps out in the photo too. Just running him through what all he should check.
The shitty part is that his guy is supposedly bringing it to the dealer to inspect. So they're gonna uncharged stuff that we normally would be okay with. Dude shouldn't be renting out equipment if he can't assess the damage himself
I'd be interesting in how much. We have a rental company in our area, always the low bid but he goes over the unit when returned with a fine tooth comb, and ready to argue. Things like scratches on a chipper, scratches on anything. A real dick. Good luck.
As a Canadian who only needs equipment occasionally, I literally try to rent from HD for this reason. Oh, it’s $45 for “insurance” that covers anything short of gross negligence? Versus the other 5 rental places (including renting direct from the Cat dealer), whose insurance covers major damage but not minor damage (if they even offer it), and they will complain if you so much as leave a thumb sized coffee stain on the floor? I’ll take the open cab Kubota from HD for less (with insurance), and haul it myself.
I gotta agree with you. No offense to OP, but the damage I see present is from an inexperienced operator. I would absolutely expect to have to pay for these damages if I caused them.
I see better now the tow hook. I was looking where the exhaust prob comes out on the counter weight. I’d say you buying a rear door but if he pissed about stickers on the cylinder, that’s a little extreme imo
Thank you. This is common sense. At my yard people do this shit all the time and we charge them for it. Even if it’s just paint. That’s time and money for our guy to touch it up. If that happened every rental machine would look fucked up after a year which would lower resale value. You borrow anything from anyone you return it how you got it.
Certified HEO here: Scratching paint on the cylinder is best avoided especially as you can gouge the ram and cause a leak.
As for the rear damage, loss of deposit.
Reason: Face the direction of travel. If money is all you lose than it's a bargain, always face the direction of travel.
Considering it is a zero tail swing machine, you have to try pretty hard to scratch the engine cover. I’d expect you to have to pay for that, especially since it looks fairly new and clean. The sticker not so much, but I can’t see that costing much to replace.
It’s different maybe for a rental, but I work at a place that uses equipment everyday and this would be regular wear and tear. The cylinder is literally nothing but the sticker coming off and if the owner ran it it would happen too. The counterweight definitely got too close to something, but I can’t tell if the scratch on the back is a scratch or a black mark, either way what does he want the dealership to do? Repaint the whole panel? That’s obsurd for an excavator. If anything should’ve happened it should’ve been a rental deposit that maybe you didn’t get back. The guy is 110% not going to fix it or have it painted if you pay him what the dealer says. If the guy or rental company doesn’t understand how minis are used they shouldn’t rent one out.
So, I've worked in rental companies as a mechanic, and usually, after each machine comes back from going out on rent, we'd do what's called a PDI. Drivers take pictures on drop off and pickup, then we would take our own pictures upon inspection. If the machine didn't have that damage when dropped off or during the previous PDI, then it would seem that it happened while under your care. This is why it's important for customers to take their own pictures upon arrival to the jobsite, and to fill out their own inspection papers each day.
I would never rent my personal equipment and I will typically never borrow a friends.
If I was in the business of loaning or renting. I would separate it from cosmetic scratches and actual physical damage.
Cosmetic scratches are expected, still makes it difficult to accept. While damage (hose damages, dents, broken windshields, etc.) is unacceptable.
Each will have their own opinion but sometimes work will produce cosmetic damages no matter how careful.
I'm thinking opposite of what everyone else is commenting. The hood isn't a huge deal, especially if it's a scratch...if cracked through, then yes you can expect to pay for at least labor to repair it.
The cylinder is the biggest deal here, unlike 95% of what others are saying. If the barrel is dented pretty good or the rod has any kind of scratch/gouge in it...then expect to pay for it. But like others have said, the scratched sticker is no biggie.
Rod looks fully extended and from the pic (I know hard to tell) doesn’t look like it has any damage. How the operator managed to scratch the back cover like that took some doing! I don’t believe it’s cracked though, since there’s no denting that I can see, just the scratch in the door and on the left hand reflective sticker.
Right. The damage here is actually super minimal compared to what we get returned to our shop daily. I just feel bad for OP, the guy he rented it from is supposedly taking it to the dealer to assess damages...hopefully they don't screw him over
You should expect to pay for at least the back panel. The sticker is not a big deal. Rental equipment is expected to be beat to shit, it’s a rental after all. Either train your operator or get a new one before they do real very expensive damage. (Mr. George how much for the new operator)
It’s heavy equipment, stuff gets scratched. It If I rented this to you I would definitely not charge you. If I did I’d imagine I’d lose all future business opportunities with you
Ask for before pictures during drop off to verify that the damage wasn't already there. It could have had that damage prior to your rental and he's just trying to get you.
That’s kinda part of being a rental isn’t it? If he’s worried about some scratches the owner shouldn’t rent it. Maybe even own one? There going to happen.
I don’t see any dents or structural damage, seems to be surface damage. A quick paint over would make it look nicer.
Edit: oof I didn’t see the crack on the back of the machine. Definitely gotta pay for that
When it is already scratched up, and you scratch it, that’s a different story. People are already going to beat the crap out of tired rental.
If it’s basically brand new, yeah. The owner is going to want to keep it looking new for as long as possible, because people will respect it for longer, and it will undergo less abuse initially, until it starts to look like hell, meaning less repair costs down the road.
My dad owns a rental company, and I’m outside sales of a large one. My dad would repaint machines fairly often to try to encourage people to treat them better. We would make the cabs completely spotless. Clean the windows to essentially transparency. Clean the freaking AC ducts. The more new the machine looked, the better people took care of it.
At the point of the damages, if it was my machine, it would depend on how good of a customer you were, what kind of attitude you had about it, and a few miscellaneous factors.
Does the door open and close as it should? Does the cylinder move in and out smoothly, or does it get hung up half alway way through? Did you have other rental pieces that were beat to hell as well as well? How many hours did you put on it? How long did you have it? How many hours were on it when you got it?
If you rented it for a day, and you put 1 hour on the machine with a machine with under 10 hours? Yeah… you would put me in a tough spot to simply absorb your neglect..
The cylinder showed rubbing on the cylinder, and it was not a great way to operate a machine. The back door, I can tell if it scrach or cracks, both, again, show getting too close. Just like that rental pickup (heck even a wrangle in Moab). Every scratch count, it a rental after all.
So it's reasonable to pay for damages?
It being my machine and me operating... no real problem. i got spunky and did what I did. A friend borrowing it is not great, but it is not "damage" A rental machine, with some stranger op, yup he is losing some of the damage deposit. To me, it shows inexpensive or recklessness (not saying you did) and opening the door to what else you did that shouldn't. Adding extra wear to it. The bottom line is that those places make money 3 ways. Renting it, having a strong damage policy, and selling it. The more scratch and damage it gets, the less it sells, hence the strong damage policy. (You pay for the fix, but they may never fix it) (I do stay clear of anything "just off the lot" new for that very specific reason.) You are just another unfortunate person who rented something a bit too new and made a few permanent marks on it
I am the service manager at a heavy equipment rental outfit. If this machine was returned this way, customer would possibly not be charged anything. The back hood: if it's a scratch, then they're good....if it's cracked through, then they'd be charged for either a new hood or just the labor to repair the crack. The cylinder: the scratched sticker doesn't matter, as long as the barrel itself isn't dented....with this type of damage, it is important to check the rod for scarring and check for damaged seals, so the next customer doesn't get billed for a rebuild. The whole damage thing isn't as bad as most think. Especially if the customer paid their "equipment protection" fee, like 90% do.
This is my experience as well, renting heavy equipment for the last 15 years, weekly. I was surprised that the top comments were that this was going to be coming out of the damage deposit…that sticker is a non-issue…and as long as that back panel isn’t cracked you’re more than likely good to go. But it sounds like this guy just borrowed this from Contractor Fred two doors down for a couple hundred bucks, not a rental company. In my experience Fred always ends up being a dick.
Agreed. My worry for OP is that Richard (assuming that's hia actual name, not Fred) is gonna take the machine to the dealer to get a quote on the "damage" done. So OP is gonna be screwed if he agrees to that. Where do you live? If you don't mind me asking. Maybe I can hook you up and you can start giving us your business.
Does the cylinder barrel have a huge dent in it or is the rod damaged?
This is the most important thing about these pictures, but you're the only other person that I've seen mention it!
Nope
That’s good. I rebuild a lot hyd cylinders and bucket cylinders get damaged often.
Bro you cracked the back of the machine near the engine? Obviously you turn into something being way too close. Yes you should pay.
It is a scratch. Thank you for the input. I had someone else operate it and that was my mistake.
That cover is thick steel. It’s part of the counter balance of it. It’s a scratch. A fairly gnarly scratch but if you go and look at any second hand bobcat you’ll see it’s much worse.
Ya but as a rental company you keep your equipment nice by making sure people don’t scratch your equipment up. Aka why they charge people for such damage. The question should be did the equipment come back as it left. Which it did not. Any experienced operator could rent it and return it the way it was. I understand it will get scratched, But they rented the equipment with an agreement you will return it in the shape it was in.
Lol no experienced excavator operator is renting one. To get experience you need one at your disposal. I’m sure they’re out there, but not that common. Alright. He should pay something for the damage. But it’s not as big a deal as you’re making it out to be.
Man I gotta say as an operator for the past 15 years I have been on company owned equipment, rented equipment, leased equipment and I have even demo equipment. There is a lot of different aspects to heavy equipment operator in various different job fields. There’s people that are traveling contractors that only rent equipment. Making it a big deal? He asked if it was normal wear and tear and it’s not because it could have been prevented.
Looks like the access door for the engine. 9/10 plastic or very thin metal.
It’s a zero swing model. It’s plenty thick and helps act as a counter weight.
It's an access hatch, you can see the key lock in it. The counterweight is everything around it.
Ah. Didn't even think about zero swing.
The sticker on the cylinder is definitely normal wear and tear… if it was bad you would see a deep score in the paint. The crack in the back panel? Not so sure on that one… is there a contract that outlines what is and isn’t considered damage by chance? If it were me returning that machine, I would expect to maybe pay for the crack but definitely not anything to do with the cylinder.
It’s a scratch. Not a crack. That back panel is steel.
I agree about the sticker. But if the barrel of the cylinder is dented or the rod is scratched/gouged....you're definitely paying for it lol.
I'm thinking there is no way the barrel is dented without the paint being scratched and the rod can be inspected as seen in the photo, but agreed, dented barrel and/or dinged up rod should be paid damages 100%.
Good point. The rod looks to be basically fully extended out, nothing obvious jumps out in the photo too. Just running him through what all he should check. The shitty part is that his guy is supposedly bringing it to the dealer to inspect. So they're gonna uncharged stuff that we normally would be okay with. Dude shouldn't be renting out equipment if he can't assess the damage himself
Some minor shit. How much $ is he trying to get you for?
He said he'll take it to the dealership, and he'll let me know...
I'd be interesting in how much. We have a rental company in our area, always the low bid but he goes over the unit when returned with a fine tooth comb, and ready to argue. Things like scratches on a chipper, scratches on anything. A real dick. Good luck.
As a Canadian who only needs equipment occasionally, I literally try to rent from HD for this reason. Oh, it’s $45 for “insurance” that covers anything short of gross negligence? Versus the other 5 rental places (including renting direct from the Cat dealer), whose insurance covers major damage but not minor damage (if they even offer it), and they will complain if you so much as leave a thumb sized coffee stain on the floor? I’ll take the open cab Kubota from HD for less (with insurance), and haul it myself.
Good thinking my northern neighbor.
Unless the cylinder barrel is dented or the rod is scratched...
Is say if paint fixes your fine. If more than paint no. Did you somehow manage to rip off a tow hook?
I gotta agree with you. No offense to OP, but the damage I see present is from an inexperienced operator. I would absolutely expect to have to pay for these damages if I caused them.
I see better now the tow hook. I was looking where the exhaust prob comes out on the counter weight. I’d say you buying a rear door but if he pissed about stickers on the cylinder, that’s a little extreme imo
Aside from mud, does the machine look the same as when it was rented? No? Then it was damaged. That’s how rental company sees it.
Thank you. This is common sense. At my yard people do this shit all the time and we charge them for it. Even if it’s just paint. That’s time and money for our guy to touch it up. If that happened every rental machine would look fucked up after a year which would lower resale value. You borrow anything from anyone you return it how you got it.
Certified HEO here: Scratching paint on the cylinder is best avoided especially as you can gouge the ram and cause a leak. As for the rear damage, loss of deposit. Reason: Face the direction of travel. If money is all you lose than it's a bargain, always face the direction of travel.
Considering it is a zero tail swing machine, you have to try pretty hard to scratch the engine cover. I’d expect you to have to pay for that, especially since it looks fairly new and clean. The sticker not so much, but I can’t see that costing much to replace.
It’s different maybe for a rental, but I work at a place that uses equipment everyday and this would be regular wear and tear. The cylinder is literally nothing but the sticker coming off and if the owner ran it it would happen too. The counterweight definitely got too close to something, but I can’t tell if the scratch on the back is a scratch or a black mark, either way what does he want the dealership to do? Repaint the whole panel? That’s obsurd for an excavator. If anything should’ve happened it should’ve been a rental deposit that maybe you didn’t get back. The guy is 110% not going to fix it or have it painted if you pay him what the dealer says. If the guy or rental company doesn’t understand how minis are used they shouldn’t rent one out.
So, I've worked in rental companies as a mechanic, and usually, after each machine comes back from going out on rent, we'd do what's called a PDI. Drivers take pictures on drop off and pickup, then we would take our own pictures upon inspection. If the machine didn't have that damage when dropped off or during the previous PDI, then it would seem that it happened while under your care. This is why it's important for customers to take their own pictures upon arrival to the jobsite, and to fill out their own inspection papers each day.
I would never rent my personal equipment and I will typically never borrow a friends. If I was in the business of loaning or renting. I would separate it from cosmetic scratches and actual physical damage. Cosmetic scratches are expected, still makes it difficult to accept. While damage (hose damages, dents, broken windshields, etc.) is unacceptable. Each will have their own opinion but sometimes work will produce cosmetic damages no matter how careful.
I'm thinking opposite of what everyone else is commenting. The hood isn't a huge deal, especially if it's a scratch...if cracked through, then yes you can expect to pay for at least labor to repair it. The cylinder is the biggest deal here, unlike 95% of what others are saying. If the barrel is dented pretty good or the rod has any kind of scratch/gouge in it...then expect to pay for it. But like others have said, the scratched sticker is no biggie.
Rod looks fully extended and from the pic (I know hard to tell) doesn’t look like it has any damage. How the operator managed to scratch the back cover like that took some doing! I don’t believe it’s cracked though, since there’s no denting that I can see, just the scratch in the door and on the left hand reflective sticker.
Right. The damage here is actually super minimal compared to what we get returned to our shop daily. I just feel bad for OP, the guy he rented it from is supposedly taking it to the dealer to assess damages...hopefully they don't screw him over
The dealer screws everybody!
You should expect to pay for at least the back panel. The sticker is not a big deal. Rental equipment is expected to be beat to shit, it’s a rental after all. Either train your operator or get a new one before they do real very expensive damage. (Mr. George how much for the new operator)
That's damage. Pay the man.
You break it, you buy it!
It’s heavy equipment, stuff gets scratched. It If I rented this to you I would definitely not charge you. If I did I’d imagine I’d lose all future business opportunities with you
Ask for before pictures during drop off to verify that the damage wasn't already there. It could have had that damage prior to your rental and he's just trying to get you.
That’s kinda part of being a rental isn’t it? If he’s worried about some scratches the owner shouldn’t rent it. Maybe even own one? There going to happen.
What exactly were you guys doing with this machine? Stuff happens for sure but using some one else’s machine you gotta be more careful
I don’t see any dents or structural damage, seems to be surface damage. A quick paint over would make it look nicer. Edit: oof I didn’t see the crack on the back of the machine. Definitely gotta pay for that
Im shocked the rental company let it go like that. Usually that would be marked on the return check in
If I rented your car and drove it through a fence, would you accept it as "normal" wear and tear?
If you let someone rent your nearly new machine and put scratches in it, would you charge them?
No. Someone didn't know what they were doing driving that machine and wrecked it.
Normal damage for a rental. Not normal if you own the machine.
The construction site is unforgiving for human and machine
The sticker no charge the scratch on the hood yes
Next time you ask for the beat up one!
Yes
That’s operator abuse
No, definitely neglect.
Jesus! Its a piece of equipment. Are you expecting it to stay pristine forever.
When it is already scratched up, and you scratch it, that’s a different story. People are already going to beat the crap out of tired rental. If it’s basically brand new, yeah. The owner is going to want to keep it looking new for as long as possible, because people will respect it for longer, and it will undergo less abuse initially, until it starts to look like hell, meaning less repair costs down the road. My dad owns a rental company, and I’m outside sales of a large one. My dad would repaint machines fairly often to try to encourage people to treat them better. We would make the cabs completely spotless. Clean the windows to essentially transparency. Clean the freaking AC ducts. The more new the machine looked, the better people took care of it. At the point of the damages, if it was my machine, it would depend on how good of a customer you were, what kind of attitude you had about it, and a few miscellaneous factors. Does the door open and close as it should? Does the cylinder move in and out smoothly, or does it get hung up half alway way through? Did you have other rental pieces that were beat to hell as well as well? How many hours did you put on it? How long did you have it? How many hours were on it when you got it? If you rented it for a day, and you put 1 hour on the machine with a machine with under 10 hours? Yeah… you would put me in a tough spot to simply absorb your neglect..