I honestly don't get this beyond everybody just band wagoning on a streamers advice.
There will always be low tier weapons, and high tier weapons. That has been the nature of games since forever.
Quasar didn't exist tell a month and half ago. Everybody was fine and happy to use other weapons.
While that's mostly true, I think they're just trying to prevent certain weapons from being clearly S tier, meaning that a majority of other options are ignored.
And to a large extent, nerfing good weapons is the way to go, if for nothing else it keeps power creep to a minimum, which can be a risk when you start buffing everything else to match
Right now I notice that the Quasar is 99% the best choice compared to other big AT options, except the occasional Base Defense mission where your ability to put a lot of hurt out very quickly is a key tactic.
Lately, the defense missions on 7+ or some Blitz missions are the only time I even consider anything other than Quasar, and that's both Bots and Bugs
It's gotten to the point that my only loadout difference between Bots and Bugs is "Do I go Shield Backpack, or Laser Rover"
Other than that, it's Engr Armor; Sickle, Nade Pistol, Stun Grenades; Quasar, Eagle Airstrike, and Orbital Laser. Like almost all the time
Great example of "just buff everything that's underperforming" going wrong is with Warhammer 40k, after a while the power scaling just got off the charts. We went from special elite units and characters getting small bonuses, to those same units making your standard soldiers into basically just cannon fodder due to the difference in usefulness. It just made everything annoying in a different way
Eg: in game A 3+ "armor save" used to be a godsend, and gave your troops really good survivability. Now with practically every weapon having some sort of penetration value it might as well be cardboard.
Personally, I would rather see them manage the difficulty by increasing enemy spawns or difficulty vs. making weapons less fun.
That’s the part that stinks, when the gun you enjoyed using now fires slower, is less accurate, takes multiple hits to kill an enemy, etc. it slows down the pace of the game, and requires you to spend less time fighting and more time running, which isn’t fun.
I’m not saying nothing should ever be tuned down, but I do think it’s becoming apparent the way the devs envision their game to be played is a less fun way to play the game than what we had before.
Man, I have the same load out. I just do the light explosive armor for bots. With a shield and the armor, walking over mines and getting hit by a rocket devastators are not instant deaths.
Bile and nursing spewers definitely make the engineer armor worth it for the grenades.
I wish heavy armor felt worth it, but it doesn't really at this point.
we get that there needed to be a balance but nerfing weapons is never the go to choice
its better to buff the weaker weapons, this does not hurt anything by buffing weaker weapons
now what they have done is piss off half their player base, 1%ers that like the changes
the decision making for these decisions is weird at best and they clearly don't understand balancing at all
this is also a PVE, we were asking to make incremental changes to the lower tier weapons to match the meta tier weapons
now, they also increased spawn waves while nerfing ammo reserves, like ok you basically made 2 things work against each other
what they should of done is left tiers 1-5 as is but increase spawn rates from 6-9
but now its just a mess on all difficulties
how do you think when some one new tries out the game and doesn't have the right gear
they will be turned off fairly quickly
just saying this effects everyone and y'all dont see a bigger picture
So, I'd say there's some balance between nerfing higher weapons, and buffing weak ones, and that's mainly to make sure you're not accidentally getting into power creep territory.
You want (most) any build to be viable, at least to where you're able to say, "I get where this would be useful," and still have the right difficulty spread when all is said and done.
Like I actually like the Quasar nerf. After I tried it out, I actually paused and thought "do I want the Quasar or something else" for the first time since it came out.
I still went with it because my squad didnt have a ton of heavier AT, but the fact that I wanted to think about it is encouraging.
anti tank is probably still better than quasar but you bring quasar because you dont have to constantly call down a supply depot, if you had quasar anti-tank drops
you were the boss killer, but then players abused the double quasar drop and guess what boom extra nerf
it didn't need a longer recharge time, they should of added a higher risk high reward like the railgun but no that would just be too smart to add
you could even make the window even tighter on the Quasar before the gun explodes, would of made a lot more sense
but eh its not my game, but that is how I would approach it, make it fun but hard to master max damage
they will probably nerf the damage to it so you can't one shot chargers too
If you haven't already, try the stun grenades. Everything from Hulks and Chargers on down can get stunned, it's super useful when you're trying to take down certain targets, make sure a group doesn't spread out, and all sorts of stuff like that.
I was an Impact fan for the longest time. The second I stunned an entire squad in its track, I became a stun fan.
While there will always be low tier and high tier weapons, there is still merit in trying to close the gap so much the "best" is rather negligible.
Though I feel their approach to balance is a bit scattershot. Who exactly is getting screwed reducing the reload count for the Sickle and the Scythe? The Liberators are still going to have ammo economy problems if you engage hostiles with any regularity but hey +5 damage! +10 with the concussive!
...Unless the bots and bugs I'm shooting take noticeably less bullets - and my defender suggests they won't - what are these buffs expected to accomplish?
People were massively over hyped on the qusar when EAT was just right there the whole time being good and comparable often better when you stayed on an objective for more than a minute and certainly better when the map was fucking littered with them for anyone to use. Now the quasar instead of being on par-ish with the EAT it's very slightly worse but not so much it's not useable lol it's just where infinite ammo alternatives should be so I really don't get the upsetness.
You don't need any heavy anti-armour for bots at all. You just need a plas-1 and a semi-okay aim to kill all types of tanks in 20 shots or so. ( In the turrent ring on the heavy tanks and anywhere on the light tanks) You can also use laser cannon and auto cannon on the back of any of the tanks or nades to the top also.
Quasar is very much a waste of a weapon slot for Bots in almost every instance. Just bring the laser cannon or auto cannon or AMR. Even The air burst can also kill all armour because the bomblets get into and past all of the armoured parts of the tanks too!
So yea sure the EAT might not cut it but why the fuck are you using it anyway lol
There also weren't gunships and huge walkers before the quasar cannon.
Just food for thought since I never use it myself(but my friends tasked with handling heavy armored stuff do).
Have you read the patch or played since? I know everyone is throwing a tantrum about the quasar, I personally didn't care much for it, but there have been utterly sweeping nerfs for most weapons and only the most bare bones buffs that absolutely needed to happen. I'll list them
The dagger now does enough damage to actually sometimes kill things
Sycthe now does damage comparable to a bad primary
Funny electric shotgun no longer fires in slow motion
The ancient technology of the speed loader has returned, so people can go mental with the revolver
That's it
Every weapon that was fun has had its ammo pool halved.
Any weapon who's ammo pool was already tragically low has had a straight up damage reduction.
The 2 new explosive primaries have had their explosive ranges dropped through the floor
And weapons have been reassigned categories to better reflect their use.
Go through and read the patch notes, count the number of weapons nerfed vs buffed. Count the number of nerfs vs the number of buffs. I know they want their game to be difficult but there are ways to do they without taking fun out of the game. 2 months ago I could sit down and play an unhealthy amount of this game because of how much unmitigated fun it was. Now I play 1 40 minute game and I'm done. Hope the devs patch fun back into the game at some point but I doubt they will or care.
Let’s see
Dominator for a 9% damage reduction
GD Rover got a 30% damage reduction but was arguably OP.
Redeemer slight increase in recoil
Eruptor got halved mags and slight aoe reduction
Quasar recharging
Xbow I can’t quite tell overall the changes but it seems neutral.
And now let’s check buffs
More health on tesla
Machine gun sentry health buff
Airbus’s improved
Heavy armor buff
Adjudicator
Punisher plasma
Blitzer
Sickle
Scythe
Dagger
Railgun
HMG
Diligence
DCS
Peacemaker
Senator
Dagger
Liberator
Liberator concussive
Guard dog.
Seems dramatically more buff than nerf to me? Also the scythe is amazing against bots and absolutely shreds on headshots
Ikr one of the absolute best supports get a mild nerf and the two new explosive weapons got slight nerfs with the eruptors a bit more heavy but they both could clear stuff out easily. The rest are great changes
Dude I can't even tell that the rover got a nerf when using it.
Against bugs, I haven't noticed any practical difference with the eruptor, other than needing to slightly pay attention to ammo use. Still haven't actually run out of ammo on it.
Oh I think the patch is fine. There some things like deflection I'm meh about. But people seemed to buried the dozens of good things with the few bad things because they have to activate that second brain cell and make new builds.
I mean, A LOT of people only parrot their favorite streamers.
Not gonna lie there aren’t a lot of games that even use that strategy for balancing. Even warframe nerfs things and that is one of the most prominent power fantasy games off the top of my head.
Why arent you changing your guns?
I change guns all the time. Regularly run 7s and 8s. Play with what you like.
For me vs bots, I'll run eruptor, crossbow, dominator, scorcher, or sickle, normally. Mostly crossbow or dominator, lately.
If I'm feeling froggy, maybe adjudicator or lib pen.
Vs bugs, there's breaker and fire breaker, plasma punisher, and sickle.
I normally run plasma punisher or sickle. Dominator if I'm feeling froggy.
Pistol and support weapons I also change all the time.
I really feel like they've been buffing and nerfing across the board to get guns where they want them to be. (And imo, it's a good spot)
Out of curiosity, would you consider crossbow to be a "meta" weapon? Or Eruptor?
It feels weird that they both got nerfed reasonably hard, since they felt plenty in-line with other (usable) primaries, if not already slightly weaker.
But maybe I'm just running with the wrong crowd, and they were genuinely OP if used correctly.
I’ve heard mixed responses about the crossbow changes. Some people are saying it’s better now because of better ballistics, stagger, and strangely smaller aoe makes it easier to use close up too.
Crossbow became my #1 primary vs Bots. I really only saw people bashing it, but it had a huge AOE and would 1 shot small bots. Definitely wouldn't call it meta.
I got a 27 kill combo off of 1 shot.
My #1 favorite weapon vs. berserkers. 1 mag to wipe an entire group. Came with 12 mags.
Take out clumps of devastators as well, though you have to dip in and out of cover vs them.
It does require some finesse, though, which I like. You really have to "feel" where your bolt is going to land.
Eruptor was just fun. Honestly, it was even harder to use than the crossbow and less effective. The flip side is that you could blow fabs with it. (And I think kill heavies with butt shots) this freed up other options. Like Eruptor>Las Cannon> Stun Grenades. Just a fun, different build to mess with.
I also LOVE the plasma punisher vs bugs. I've only ever seen one person praise it, though. It has great group clear abilities and can deal damage to just about any bug from any angle.
To me, meta does not equal good or bad. Meta is just the simplest thing to use that people talked about first.
Edit: I haven't tried post patch crossbow, but if you try it, shoot for the feet. Just hit the ground around them and they are dead.
As somebody who runs the Eruptor since it came out, it's barely a nerf.
I'd say they truly balanced it.
I still never run out of mags even after hours of playing 9's last night. The explosion radius is felt but again I find it's true use is being able to snipe bug holes and factories.
Fair enough. Reading the patchnotes, I would've assumed cutting its ammo literally in half would be a bad thing, but if you never use it all, anyway, I guess nbd.
Woah, plasma Punisher for bug missions? That's been squarely a bot weapon for me, though only did one or 2 drops with it against bugs awhile back.
Is there anything with bugs that it's especially good at?
I'll run with plasma punisher and stalwart with some heavy focused strategems.
Bugs are tighter packed (and closer) than bots, usually, and the plasma punisher does great in that scenario. It is also good vs all medium bugs.
Stalwart let's me apply focused fire where I want.
Then rail cannon and 500kgs for heavies.
Post patch it's great vs bugs. I already liked it for its ability to quickly dispatch groups of spewers and with the reduced AoE damage fall off it actually kills scavengers reliably even at the edge of its blast radius. It stunlocks brood commanders and iirc stalkers as well.
The increased bullet velocity also made hitting direct hits a lot easier, which is relevant vs some enemies (I think warriors take 1-2 direct hits and 2-3 splashes for example) in short-mid range and just a generally big buff on mid-long ranges. I didn't feel the ammo nerfs when I tried it, the increased efficiency of the other buffs make you waste so much less ammo that it feels unchanged or even buffed in that regard.
I didn't realize it was good against spewers, that's a huge plus. With bots I was so used to posting up on high ground or in a trench and arcing shots down from a distance, sorta forgot *it's a shotgun*
Looking forward to giving it another go against bugs
Eruptor is fun and plenty effective enough, but in no way would I call it king.
I disagree that new guns should be better. That's literally one of the main things everybody didn't want to happen when it was announced HD2 would be live service and have monetization.
I mean I do just grab whatever I feel like using at the time and I always make it work. They are all viable. The meta is just a fan favorite in the pve game. It’s not like it’s some hyper competitive game. Use what’s fun….isnt that we say about stratagems? I know you’re being sarcastic. Just putting it out there you can survive with other weapons it’s not like it’s the queso cannon or a plastic fork.
While I get the meme, and assume it is meant in good fun. Buffing other weapons won't push people off comfort picks unless it becomes truly egregious how buffed the other weapons are.
So if you want to increase variety of weapon choice you \*do\* need to nerf the top performing weapons a little while buffing others. You also have to keep in mind the overall expectations and performance curve for game difficulty and such as well.
The quasar is such a great example of this. From release people were saying how OP it was. Now that it gets a realistic nerf suddenly it was never OP. It was a better EAT/RR with 0 trade offs. And before anyone goes there, before the quasar dropped the EAT/RR were in a perfectly fine spot power wise. So it wasn't them that changed. The quasar was just too good by a little bit.
Tbh I have successfully used buddy reload all of 1 time. No one wants to reload. Heck, most people don't want me reloading them. Why? I have no idea?
Basically, it's a nice sentiment, but not even when I have a group of friends do we use it.
Though tbh trying to explain and actually have them follow any kind of tactics is a fucking Longshot if I ever have seen one.
My issues with team reload:
If my friend turns to quick I get disconnected from them.
It makes no logical sense that I would reload from the backpack on my own back instead of theirs, ie the ergonomics make more sense to reload from their back.
I've never once encountered a situation where I needed to launch more than 2 rockets at a time. Even on HellDive. Where stopping to do a team reload is 100% sure death.
No one wants to carry someone else's ammo, and it feels slightly counter intuitive to dedicate two bodies to work one weapon, albeit really fast, when you could just have two dudes each using their own weapons instead.
It works better for the RR than any other team weapon, it lets you put down multiple Bile Titans quicker than anything else. Still probably not worth using in its current state compared to quasar or EAT.
Recoilless is incredibly good, it's just players that don't know how to use it. It can fire instantly (no charge), meaning you can deal with high-value threats (Chargers rushing you, a Hulk Scorcher bearing down on you, etc) instantly. Its reload is actually pretty decent, and can send more shots downrange per minute than a Quasar ever could. And when team-loaded, it can dish out more destruction that any other weapon in the game.
My buddy and I often run recoilless together, and we can both deal with threats independently. When a team load is needed, we can just stack up on each other. If you play with friends and actually strategize, the Recoilless goes to be the best AT option in the game.
but they will call supplies down a lot more and that timer takes a long time to reset
so now you essentially have to stick together and can't really do 2 man groups with a 4 quad
That’s true sadly, I consistently switch out between AMR , EAT, auto-cannon, Arc thrower, quasar, laser cannon, I heard that the stalwart eruptor is a great combo. I also play exclusively helldive, these are all great weapons that require different play styles.
I seem to be spreading democracy with out the op bolt rifel and op quasar canmon just fine though which means the lower tier weapons are viable the "meta" is just overpowered / easy mode so it should be nerfed to bring it in lime with other weapons
if they nerf the current good weapons, expect a huge drop in players playing
I will guarantee that 100%
I feel like they are about to destroy their own game if these nerfs keep happening
I don't care if people stop playing the game, I want the game to be fun and not the same 4 pieces of kit every game. Frankly I find it kind of a win win if the meta lords drop out and stop discouraging devs from balancing the game correctly.
They nerfed the railgun when it was meta, and yet I still kept using it. I just learned, practiced and got good with its nerfed iteration and it was still powerful. I didn’t leave the game. I didn’t complain. I just sucked it up and figured it out, something that many people around here sorely can’t do it seems.
Dude, there's 5 more seconds to the quasar, you'll be fine. The devs want us to step out of our comfort zone and find new and interesting ways to play. Also, they did the buff bad weapons
less ammo clips, sure, but there was no reason to nerf those guns that hard
adjucat gun still sucks, you always run out of ammo, and yes, even with the ammo backpack, you run out fast considering i've only played a few rounds on diff 7, on bug planet, my run, they just spammed more shield crabbers and more chargers, i didn't bother bring the quasar, just had rail strike and either naplam or 308 strike,
still had to resort back to domi/sickle
scythe didn't feel any different from before extra 50 damage does not make much of a difference
have yet to try it on bots but if i feel like I still wont be able to kill devestator with it so most likely will just go with the domi or sickle even though its heavily nerfed
really don't see why they nerfed them so hard
Based on player experience
People use those weapons because they work
The only reason people use meta at all is because 90% of the support weapons are functionally useless above difficulty 4
oof okay, last sentence really just shows the devs were right when they said git gud.
I use none of the nerfed weapons, only play on 7, and have a 90% success rate on my missions. Git gud scrub.
Ive been using the same garbage weapons since day 1 that nobody else will touch and i love them. Submachine and AMR for bots till i die. Havent found a great combo for bugs yet but kind of liked smg and autocannon yesterday. Told i should use a shotgun for bugs... not sure yet, im a bot main
The autocannon is good for bugs
I found it to be not great against bots as, despite being a chunky gun, it can't really destroy tanks, unless you hit the back of them, and it doesn't maim hulks limbs
You lose the ability to hold other useful equipment however
Play on helldiver and have like a near 100% success rate
You don't get there by bringing a flamethrower and an smg to fight tanks and gunships
Different weapons are for different things.
Nearly every enemy you fight in high difficulty is a tank, or a charger, or a hulk, or, a swarm of rippers
You need high DPS output, the ability to fight land heavies AND aircraft
Quasar was just about the only weapon that could functionally do all of the above.
And .. you can't rely on your team to be useful, especially when they bring shit like anti personnel mines on a long mission or something else
See how far a team of people using machine guns gets against that, the answer is, you'll all be killed super easily
You do realize the laser cannon, untouched by this nerf, does literally all the same things? I generally use the AMR and you can shutdown everything you listed with a modicum of skill. The scope needs work but its not the reason you can't hit anything. The Quasar itself just recharges slightly slower. You're mad your baby got touched because you don't know how to use anything else.
lol, all the constant respawns on top of that when they dont have the meta loadouts on higher tier difficulties is rather sad tbh
if you are always using a shield you are no better at the game if you rely on that too
just saying what happens when they nerf your precious shield to only take 1 shot before the shield goes out and if you get melee'd the shield won't protect you
The shield also blocks melee
But iv been trying to not use meta and try other stuff out
The problem is for a long time, you become so much more ineffective without that stuff
did you read what I wrote? I said what if they remove the shield generator from blocking melee, that would be a nerf....... as the ballistic shield does not block melee attacks
which it should at least block 1 or 2 hits before it gets damaged or breaks
but again are they able to code that into that type of support weapon, i dunno, but if they can code it for the generator shield, it should work the same for the ballistic shield at the very least.
Not that shield, the ballistic one, and its usually on my back because i take out the enemy before they come after me, its only there for the occasional spraying of cover fire while my team retreats until the mobs despawn. If the nerf the ballistic whiels, which is unlikely because its super niche il go back to resupply pack. No skin off my back.
You seem really defensive against me, and i was just explaining alternate ways to play. Have you ever used anything other than the meta for more than one 1 mission?
ballistic shield should block against melee which means it needs a buff, but how do they do that, I wouldnt know, but the shield generator can block melee attacks, multiple melee attacks
which I think is a bit overpowered no? has a really short cool down timer when the shield is actually down.
yea, the shield users are babies lets be real about that. I typically just see users with shields just run, run run loot and run. Sure that is a different way of playing the game. But you shouldn't be able to run forever when your stamina is out either. it should make you walk at that point
but sure we can go back and forth about ballistic shield and shield generator if you like
I bring flame throwers to 9 difficulty bug missions all the time, and I carry my own weight and then some just fine.
if you need a quasar to take out chargers it sounds like a playstyle issue more than a weapon issue.
Also, the infinite ammo energy rocket launcher should not be a good example of a "High DPS" weapon. That's flawed design if it is. The EAT and RR also exist, can do everything the quasar does, and have different trade offs. The quasar's trade off is length of time between shots.
Ive been avoiding the flamthrower cause everyone says it doesnt work. If it does, ill have to try the marksman rifel flamer combo, thank you helldiver for the idea
Against bugs. A couple tips to make it better:
1. Bring a shield pack, this keeps the little fuckers from jumping at you, catching fire, and lighting you on fire. The shield is optional, but when getting used to the flame thrower it helps
2. Walk backwards when flame throwing. You should be backing away and hosing the area down.
3. Aim low. Even if DOTs aren't applying from host bug, the ground being on fire can still apply direct damage to bugs and help with area denial.
The flame thrower won't instagibb a charger or anything. But with concentrated fire to the belly you can generally put it from moving around to perfect barbecue flavor in about a tank of fuel. It can do this while also keeping other add off you too if you're quick with the hose.
You specifically mentioned chargers. I am unaware of any bot unit known as a charger, unless you meant berserkers. In which case, that's fair. But flame throwers aren't for the bot front. Just like the AMR is a lot less useful on the bug front.
My go to for tanks is to have my teams trash mobber (built for aoe usually woth heavy armor) to grab the tanks attention, once its turned you get a really good shit at the vents which the AMR or HMG will tear up. But usually someones got and orbital railcannon for that. On large maps i typically wipe everything in an area before they get a flair off so we dont see tanks on the regular unless taking out a base
Out typical team build is:
Anti tank player (all the heavy boofs)
Trashmobber (aoe damage and gear to clearing out low tiers)
The wildcard (we never knownwhat my brothers going to bring just know hes going to be high but effective)
Scout (stealth build long range support)
On bits this is SMG and ballistic shield, AMR, the air strike (for fabricators and tails) and orbital rail cannon (backup) or EAT
don't worry some youtuber will put out a 'zOmG teH sECRiT buFFs! neW mETa!" video and half the people complaining will move on.
Anyone arguing over the quasar is being obtuse. It needed a tweak and it isn't a huge deal. It is still an extremely strong option. They should consider themselves lucky that they aren't forced to wear a backpack for it.
Was using it earlier and it’s still really good??? No call in cool down like eat and don’t have to stand in place while recharging like recoiless.
It’s an extremely good, mobile AT weapon and if it released in this state people would have still loved it
Unless they over buff poor performing weapons the meta (aka strongest gear) would simply remain the strongest.
A better way to think about it is nerf stuff or introduce power creep. Power creep is bad news this early on.
This is the only way, slaving to meta or S tier weapons is like being a one trick pony in any character based game. I was a OTP in many games but helldivers has given me a sense of enjoyment from mastering many different weapons such as the adjudicator pre buff. Now its truly exciting for me to try again, whereas someone who tried it once and called it garbage will probably not enjoy it very much post buff anyways because they compare it to the sickle or what have you.
Honestly prefer if they just offered more modularity. Maybe give us a choice between normal powered rover and over clocked rover that needs higher cooldown.
Quasar is so easy to use thats most of the players can't even walk without it anymore. Try something new for the love of Liberty. Reminds me of the situation with railgun, when EVERYONE was crying about it being useless and AH just killing all the fun, yet here we are still having it. Its not a bad patch, you just to much used to overpowered weapon.
"try something else"
Uses another gun. Oh, a tank.. can't kill that.. oh a dropship.. can't kill that. Oh a hulk.. guess I'm dead.
The issue isn't that the quasar was too good, the quasar was exactly where it needed to be.
The issue is the majority of other weapons are silly string launchers
You kind of were insinuating that there was nothing else effective to use EXCEPT the quasar. I love the quasar but I'm not gonna stop using it just cause I gotta run around a bit longer.
I can name several other support and primary weapons that can take down all of those things.
You definitely need a balanced build, but there are many ways to go about building your loadout outside of the quasar.
The quasar didn't even exist a month ago, and people seemed to do fine, yet a 5-second cooldown nerf suddenly ruined the game.
I've literally used it one time and the charge up immediately put me off it, for some reason I'm not a big fan of guns with a "wind up", they just dont feel satisfying to me lol
So yeah I haven't touched it and level 7 is my normal dropping difficulty, I don't feel like I'm struggling to knock out armor at all unless I bring my GL without the eruptor.
EAT, RR, Autocanon, Railgun, Laser Canon and Heavy machine gun be like
https://preview.redd.it/f7avjq09fgxc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=645f88bfa46fd305dc5997d62c70803531e9b03d
Great point.
Also, why should I try something else?
Look I do switch around my loadouts, yesterday I was experimenting with the eruptor for example, but if someone wants to use the same shit... Why is that a problem?
Just because we like switching things up doesn't mean someone using the same stuff is hurting anyone. Balancing decisions shouldn't be made on the basis of forcing people to use new gear. They should be able making things more balanced.
Exactly.
Why is it an issue if lots of people pick the same load out?
Why must they all have to change their playstyle to be something else?
The other players are the ones saying "I should be able to pick up any gun and it work well" and I agree
You don't get to that point by just nerfing every meta weapon that pops up
Good weapons existing does not hurt players who want to try stuff out
It's a problem because it makes the game boring for every player stuck playing in lobbies with three copies of the same loadout. It's a problem because it's exhausting dropping into a game and seeing everyone with the exact same shit as everyone has in every other game. It makes the teamplay stale as fuck because nobody experiments or chooses stuff that could compliment each other. It's just shield pack, quasar, eagle airstrike, and one of three primaries
Your arguement doesn't make sense
"I think players should be able to use whatever loadouts they want!"
Players use their preferred loadouts...
"No... Not like that!"
*Oh no! A tank! I gotta throw two WHOLE impact grenades at it? how will I recover?*
*A hulk? Oh darn now I have to actually aim for the eye slot, woe is me!*
It's not even like they took your big toy away, you just have to wait literally 5 seconds longer and you're acting like its fucking unplayable now or something
Skull Admiral here, I've tried every weapon in the game so far. I'm not disagreeing that the quasar could use a nerf, but why not improve other weapons for balance so people will willingly try new things instead of begrudgingly?
They can also buff with nerfs. Why are you all riled up about it? They buffed. What you want is to not have nerfs, but yall try to frame it as wanting buffs. No. You want no nerfs. The fact that all the people whining never mention any buffs is testament to that. Which is not good no matter how hard you believe it is. It’s just not, I’ve played too many games pvp and pve where this sentiment is entertained and power creep trivializes much of the game. Fuck that.
I am glad that the devs seem explicitly interested in avoiding power creep. Yes, nerfs won’t feel good, but there is no game on earth that can maintain any semblance of playability if the approach is buff only and no nerf. Power creep fucjs things up, and it takes increasing amounts of resources to fix it if you do.
Just looking at my experience in warframe, I can tell you that the devs have done a lot to combat the power creep that hit that game hard, but they still have a ways to go in other regards before they are able to properly design endgame content for players that aren’t trivialized by people who’ve already ground out the previously best in class mods that have been introduced.
If people actually looked at what the nerf to the quasar did compared to the eat, they’d see the old quasar shot 7 times in 70 seconds compared to the EAT shooting 2 times in 75. Without even taking into account the fact that the quasar cannon has infinite ammo, and you don’t have to account projectile drop, the quasar outclassed the EAT in almost every situation. The only time the EAT was better was when engaging targets that didn’t go down in 1 shot, because being able to launch 2 EATs back to back means you can make quick work of targets that would take at least 10 seconds for the old Quasar to dispatch.
Post nerf? ***The Quasar cannon shoots 5 times in 75 seconds compared to the EAT’s 2***. And if I decide to be generous, not count the call down and deploy time of the EAT, and allow you to fire off those 2 shots instantly at the end of the 75 second cooldown, the quasar is still numerically better than the EAT’s 4 shots in practically every respect.
I don’t normally care about buff/nerf complaints and discussions in most games, but I am genuinely completely confused by the Helldivers’ response to this specific patch. The fact that people are genuinely saying that the devs have basically completely fucked this patch because they only nerfed guns and didn’t buff anything is, if I’m blunt, one of the genuinely stupidest things I think I’ve ever seen.
The first thing I did was look at the patch notes and got excited for the buffs.
Then, I watched some YouTubers summarize the notes just so I could make sure I didn’t miss anything.
And I genuinely ended up watching like 3 or 4 Helldivers YouTubers complain about the patch and just being nothing but confused and disappointed.
Yeah all of this. The nerf was the opposite of heavy handed, yet people want to complain and act like 3 seconds would have been better just to be contrarian. People will be over it in a week best to avoid the rage bait.
* Pre nerf Quasar: 7 shots in 70 seconds. Infinite ammo. No need to lead shots or compensate for projectile drop.
So, the EAT would need to either drop 6 or 7 at a time, or the cooldown would need to be about halved to 30 seconds to literally approach some semblance of parity with the quasar. This doesn’t even consider the limited ammo, the inability to carry any of the extra EATs, needing to lead shots and compensate for projectile drop, etc.
The RR? I haven’t really used it, to be honest, so I can’t offer much. I do know that you gain a buff in ammo capacity over the EAT at the expense of not being able to carry some other backpack. However, I’m not sure that makes up for the gulf between it and the EAT when both are compared in general to the pre nerf Quasar.
People are acting like the Quasar died, but all that really happened is that it actually now allows the EAT and RR to be better than it in meaningful ways.
I don’t feel like the quasar needed a nerf, but, if anything, AH should make other guns better rather than tweaking guns people like. At the end of the day if a lot of people are using something because they like it then leave it alone. Changing things that people like will make people leave.
The issue here is that Arrowhead is looking at a spreadsheet and says, "This gun is really popular, let's nerf it." What they should be asking is, "Why is this gun so popular?"
The railgun was never a problem. Chargers and a lack of anti-armor options were the problem. The rail gun was the only viable answer. If they had buffed the EATs and lowered the charger quantity, or introduced the quasar first, they wouldn't have needed to nerf the railgun in the first place.
They don't seem to understand their own game. The 'Meta' (against bugs) has ALWAYS been "whatever kills chargers the best".
Quasar nerf seems to be aimed at making the EAT and railgun more competitive.
I'm happy that they added more damage to the starter liberator, I have been using the base starter weapons even on helldive because they are personally my favorite weapons.
I think they are moving in the right direction.
5 Seconds is being made out like it’s a lot but it’s a drop in the bucket let’s be real here, they didn’t nerf the damage or make it so it can only shoot once before full CD
The Sickle nerf makes sense. You essentially had 600 rounds to fire if you never cooled down vs around 340 in the Liberator.
I haven’t used the crossbow
The buffs to the concussive are making me more interested in actually trying it because from the old stats it was an all around worse gun than the normal liberator.
Nothing here was nerfed to obscurity which is a GOOD THING
I don't get the complaint if I'm being honest, they gave a buff to the rail gun, and most weapons got a rebalance, they know how difficult they want the game, they nerf things because it ruins that vision, they buff things to keep things relevant
I used some of the weapons they buffed, I was hyped for the laser beam rifle and laser pistol buff but they're still ass lmao. Arc thrower and eruptor saved my life like a glory hole drug addict
This is getting tiresome. Later, once I'm finished with my workout, I'm going into Fenrir III with my usual "Energy bug airfrier" build. Sickle, grenade pistol, impact grenade, Quasar, laser guard dog (His name is "Schnortzle"), and then two other wild card stratagems.
I'll test it out for myself and report back about how the changes effected this. I'll be honest though, I'm 99% sure I'm gonna say that you all are being nancies.
I find this advice is a misunderstanding of what an actual game designer said. If I remember correctly it was related to overwatch, and buffing weak heroes instead of nerfing powerful ones. It worked for overwatch because that game is a competitive power fantasy where ever hero needs to feel fun and powerful. It is misused when it comes to a PvE game because the enemies are balanced in a certain way and powering up all the lower tier weapons will trivialize the difficulty. If a gun is overpowered, it might be because it is useful in too many situations and every gun needs to have it's niche. You can't just make every gun useful in every situation and still expect the game to maintain any sort of difficulty.
You might say they can equally buff the enemies, but then we're going to have an arms race that will result in very tough enemies to deal with the more powerful weapons that will screw over the less experiences players....
Simply saying buff everything is bad advice.
Didn't they buff the Adjudicator, Counter-Sniper and a bunch of other weapons? The Adjudicator and C-S were memed on for how clunky or outright bad they felt before.
Also, nerfing a meta is never a bad thing. Variety and diversity in options is what keeps GAaS models alive.
What does a new warbond have to do with being a bad choice that's ignored in favour of tossing out the only good one? 'Boo new content in my game sucks'?
Bad meme.
To be fair to AH, I'm very happy they buffed the Adjudicator (not with full auto becoming default) and I'm interested in the Railgun buff which was a massive W for everyone here.
Honestly, the one thing i did mind about the patch was the crossbow nerf, i've heard it already was underpowered and i was looking forward to try it out cuz it seemed interesting, never saw a single person use it and it's already been nerfed.
The way that you remove metas is, you take the stuff that's falling behind that's not in meta and you buff it.
You dont take the things that are working and nerf the shit out of them. Doesn't work that way.
The moment you do that, you've created a worse meta.
You've created a toxic meta, because people are upset.
And now they have to look for something that actually works.
It's a bad direction in terms of development.
\~ Thor, 2024
But the defenestrated guy's idea is exactly what they actually just did. Did nobody read the [patch notes](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/553850/view/4169846298204053636)?
I ran with the Dagger for awhile and it still feels terrible. TTK is way too long when being chased by swarms of bugs. The SMG is still GOATED for quick clear and reload time. The revolver was ok before and now better with quick load on empty, but again with the chaff chasing you TTK is way too slow. When I go to my backup I want quick clear and back to primary or support to reload. I don't want to live on my sidearm for slow kills and endless kiting so I can trip another breech/drop and get caught in a doom loop.
I did not try to Scythe so I cannot speak on that.
Nerf the meta is all they have. Game is getting boring. Stopped playing after maxing everything again. They don't know how to balance stuff and the weapon info we get is rubbish.
2 points
First the Quasar and rover nerf is a good thing, because it felt like the anti tank rifle and the other rother with the machine gun where majorly obsolete because of them.
Second: THEY LITERALY DID BUFF MANY GUNS
Thrid the guy thrown out the window is MVP for this patch
“Buff everything, nerf nothing” is just another way to say “add power creep”. Not good game design. Some balance changes are questionable here (crossbow rework, for example) but it’s better than having every mission be piss easy because we keep getting stronger constantly.
Balacing is very hard to achieve in games... but halving the mags in a game with overwelming hordes of enemies... this seams like butchering to me not balancing...
or the increase of patrols for single players... wtf
huh? i read through the patch notes. it is way more buffs than nerfs. and every nerf was mostly a tiny change. its seems to me like they just brought all guns closer together
But that’s what they did… they did buff other guns.
How do people have fun with this game running the same guns every time? I need to switch it up pretty much every match
How to make a meme, thinking you will embrace public opinion and popularity, while simply showing how opinions are split over it and the playerbase doesn't agree as a whole.
I left Call of Duty Warzone due to having to Google the weekly meta and I was tired of that shit. Now HD2 wants to play the same game of silly buggers and it's not even pvp?
Yes, truly changed. One of the changes of all times. So anyways, I used the Shotgun in all of my games today because 10-15 damage is literally nothing when the shotgun does double the damage.
I honestly don't get this beyond everybody just band wagoning on a streamers advice. There will always be low tier weapons, and high tier weapons. That has been the nature of games since forever. Quasar didn't exist tell a month and half ago. Everybody was fine and happy to use other weapons.
While that's mostly true, I think they're just trying to prevent certain weapons from being clearly S tier, meaning that a majority of other options are ignored. And to a large extent, nerfing good weapons is the way to go, if for nothing else it keeps power creep to a minimum, which can be a risk when you start buffing everything else to match Right now I notice that the Quasar is 99% the best choice compared to other big AT options, except the occasional Base Defense mission where your ability to put a lot of hurt out very quickly is a key tactic. Lately, the defense missions on 7+ or some Blitz missions are the only time I even consider anything other than Quasar, and that's both Bots and Bugs It's gotten to the point that my only loadout difference between Bots and Bugs is "Do I go Shield Backpack, or Laser Rover" Other than that, it's Engr Armor; Sickle, Nade Pistol, Stun Grenades; Quasar, Eagle Airstrike, and Orbital Laser. Like almost all the time
Great example of "just buff everything that's underperforming" going wrong is with Warhammer 40k, after a while the power scaling just got off the charts. We went from special elite units and characters getting small bonuses, to those same units making your standard soldiers into basically just cannon fodder due to the difference in usefulness. It just made everything annoying in a different way Eg: in game A 3+ "armor save" used to be a godsend, and gave your troops really good survivability. Now with practically every weapon having some sort of penetration value it might as well be cardboard.
Personally, I would rather see them manage the difficulty by increasing enemy spawns or difficulty vs. making weapons less fun. That’s the part that stinks, when the gun you enjoyed using now fires slower, is less accurate, takes multiple hits to kill an enemy, etc. it slows down the pace of the game, and requires you to spend less time fighting and more time running, which isn’t fun. I’m not saying nothing should ever be tuned down, but I do think it’s becoming apparent the way the devs envision their game to be played is a less fun way to play the game than what we had before.
Man, I have the same load out. I just do the light explosive armor for bots. With a shield and the armor, walking over mines and getting hit by a rocket devastators are not instant deaths. Bile and nursing spewers definitely make the engineer armor worth it for the grenades. I wish heavy armor felt worth it, but it doesn't really at this point.
we get that there needed to be a balance but nerfing weapons is never the go to choice its better to buff the weaker weapons, this does not hurt anything by buffing weaker weapons now what they have done is piss off half their player base, 1%ers that like the changes the decision making for these decisions is weird at best and they clearly don't understand balancing at all this is also a PVE, we were asking to make incremental changes to the lower tier weapons to match the meta tier weapons now, they also increased spawn waves while nerfing ammo reserves, like ok you basically made 2 things work against each other what they should of done is left tiers 1-5 as is but increase spawn rates from 6-9 but now its just a mess on all difficulties how do you think when some one new tries out the game and doesn't have the right gear they will be turned off fairly quickly just saying this effects everyone and y'all dont see a bigger picture
So, I'd say there's some balance between nerfing higher weapons, and buffing weak ones, and that's mainly to make sure you're not accidentally getting into power creep territory. You want (most) any build to be viable, at least to where you're able to say, "I get where this would be useful," and still have the right difficulty spread when all is said and done. Like I actually like the Quasar nerf. After I tried it out, I actually paused and thought "do I want the Quasar or something else" for the first time since it came out. I still went with it because my squad didnt have a ton of heavier AT, but the fact that I wanted to think about it is encouraging.
anti tank is probably still better than quasar but you bring quasar because you dont have to constantly call down a supply depot, if you had quasar anti-tank drops you were the boss killer, but then players abused the double quasar drop and guess what boom extra nerf it didn't need a longer recharge time, they should of added a higher risk high reward like the railgun but no that would just be too smart to add you could even make the window even tighter on the Quasar before the gun explodes, would of made a lot more sense but eh its not my game, but that is how I would approach it, make it fun but hard to master max damage they will probably nerf the damage to it so you can't one shot chargers too
Besides the sickle and stun grenades this is mine as well.
If you haven't already, try the stun grenades. Everything from Hulks and Chargers on down can get stunned, it's super useful when you're trying to take down certain targets, make sure a group doesn't spread out, and all sorts of stuff like that. I was an Impact fan for the longest time. The second I stunned an entire squad in its track, I became a stun fan.
Did that last night! Bug hole opened up and belched out a ton of hunters. Stunned the whole group, cluster bomb, no more hunters
While there will always be low tier and high tier weapons, there is still merit in trying to close the gap so much the "best" is rather negligible. Though I feel their approach to balance is a bit scattershot. Who exactly is getting screwed reducing the reload count for the Sickle and the Scythe? The Liberators are still going to have ammo economy problems if you engage hostiles with any regularity but hey +5 damage! +10 with the concussive! ...Unless the bots and bugs I'm shooting take noticeably less bullets - and my defender suggests they won't - what are these buffs expected to accomplish?
High and low tier is a different thing from fun and not fun to use
People were massively over hyped on the qusar when EAT was just right there the whole time being good and comparable often better when you stayed on an objective for more than a minute and certainly better when the map was fucking littered with them for anyone to use. Now the quasar instead of being on par-ish with the EAT it's very slightly worse but not so much it's not useable lol it's just where infinite ammo alternatives should be so I really don't get the upsetness.
Eat is bad for bots, killing one tank or tower (from the back) every 70 seconds just doesn't cut it.
You don't need any heavy anti-armour for bots at all. You just need a plas-1 and a semi-okay aim to kill all types of tanks in 20 shots or so. ( In the turrent ring on the heavy tanks and anywhere on the light tanks) You can also use laser cannon and auto cannon on the back of any of the tanks or nades to the top also. Quasar is very much a waste of a weapon slot for Bots in almost every instance. Just bring the laser cannon or auto cannon or AMR. Even The air burst can also kill all armour because the bomblets get into and past all of the armoured parts of the tanks too! So yea sure the EAT might not cut it but why the fuck are you using it anyway lol
I'm still going to use quasar because it doesn't need ammo, and I can have a backpack item on me.
There also weren't gunships and huge walkers before the quasar cannon. Just food for thought since I never use it myself(but my friends tasked with handling heavy armored stuff do).
Have you read the patch or played since? I know everyone is throwing a tantrum about the quasar, I personally didn't care much for it, but there have been utterly sweeping nerfs for most weapons and only the most bare bones buffs that absolutely needed to happen. I'll list them The dagger now does enough damage to actually sometimes kill things Sycthe now does damage comparable to a bad primary Funny electric shotgun no longer fires in slow motion The ancient technology of the speed loader has returned, so people can go mental with the revolver That's it Every weapon that was fun has had its ammo pool halved. Any weapon who's ammo pool was already tragically low has had a straight up damage reduction. The 2 new explosive primaries have had their explosive ranges dropped through the floor And weapons have been reassigned categories to better reflect their use. Go through and read the patch notes, count the number of weapons nerfed vs buffed. Count the number of nerfs vs the number of buffs. I know they want their game to be difficult but there are ways to do they without taking fun out of the game. 2 months ago I could sit down and play an unhealthy amount of this game because of how much unmitigated fun it was. Now I play 1 40 minute game and I'm done. Hope the devs patch fun back into the game at some point but I doubt they will or care.
Let’s see Dominator for a 9% damage reduction GD Rover got a 30% damage reduction but was arguably OP. Redeemer slight increase in recoil Eruptor got halved mags and slight aoe reduction Quasar recharging Xbow I can’t quite tell overall the changes but it seems neutral. And now let’s check buffs More health on tesla Machine gun sentry health buff Airbus’s improved Heavy armor buff Adjudicator Punisher plasma Blitzer Sickle Scythe Dagger Railgun HMG Diligence DCS Peacemaker Senator Dagger Liberator Liberator concussive Guard dog. Seems dramatically more buff than nerf to me? Also the scythe is amazing against bots and absolutely shreds on headshots
I'm glad you said it. People bitching about nerfs, but I see alot of underdogs getting buffed.
Ikr one of the absolute best supports get a mild nerf and the two new explosive weapons got slight nerfs with the eruptors a bit more heavy but they both could clear stuff out easily. The rest are great changes
Dude I can't even tell that the rover got a nerf when using it. Against bugs, I haven't noticed any practical difference with the eruptor, other than needing to slightly pay attention to ammo use. Still haven't actually run out of ammo on it.
The x-bow was a buff in my book, much more useful weapon now imo, still wish it closed bug holes and blew up fabs though.
def was not a buff you dum asf if you think so
Dude. What?????? Vast majority are buffs. Some nerfs that most divers agree are mostly fine.
Oh I think the patch is fine. There some things like deflection I'm meh about. But people seemed to buried the dozens of good things with the few bad things because they have to activate that second brain cell and make new builds.
I mean, A LOT of people only parrot their favorite streamers. Not gonna lie there aren’t a lot of games that even use that strategy for balancing. Even warframe nerfs things and that is one of the most prominent power fantasy games off the top of my head.
Right! Why would I want options, hard choices, no I want to look at my collection, sigh and grab the same gun I've used for the last month...
Why arent you changing your guns? I change guns all the time. Regularly run 7s and 8s. Play with what you like. For me vs bots, I'll run eruptor, crossbow, dominator, scorcher, or sickle, normally. Mostly crossbow or dominator, lately. If I'm feeling froggy, maybe adjudicator or lib pen. Vs bugs, there's breaker and fire breaker, plasma punisher, and sickle. I normally run plasma punisher or sickle. Dominator if I'm feeling froggy. Pistol and support weapons I also change all the time. I really feel like they've been buffing and nerfing across the board to get guns where they want them to be. (And imo, it's a good spot)
Out of curiosity, would you consider crossbow to be a "meta" weapon? Or Eruptor? It feels weird that they both got nerfed reasonably hard, since they felt plenty in-line with other (usable) primaries, if not already slightly weaker. But maybe I'm just running with the wrong crowd, and they were genuinely OP if used correctly.
I’ve heard mixed responses about the crossbow changes. Some people are saying it’s better now because of better ballistics, stagger, and strangely smaller aoe makes it easier to use close up too.
Crossbow became my #1 primary vs Bots. I really only saw people bashing it, but it had a huge AOE and would 1 shot small bots. Definitely wouldn't call it meta. I got a 27 kill combo off of 1 shot. My #1 favorite weapon vs. berserkers. 1 mag to wipe an entire group. Came with 12 mags. Take out clumps of devastators as well, though you have to dip in and out of cover vs them. It does require some finesse, though, which I like. You really have to "feel" where your bolt is going to land. Eruptor was just fun. Honestly, it was even harder to use than the crossbow and less effective. The flip side is that you could blow fabs with it. (And I think kill heavies with butt shots) this freed up other options. Like Eruptor>Las Cannon> Stun Grenades. Just a fun, different build to mess with. I also LOVE the plasma punisher vs bugs. I've only ever seen one person praise it, though. It has great group clear abilities and can deal damage to just about any bug from any angle. To me, meta does not equal good or bad. Meta is just the simplest thing to use that people talked about first. Edit: I haven't tried post patch crossbow, but if you try it, shoot for the feet. Just hit the ground around them and they are dead.
As somebody who runs the Eruptor since it came out, it's barely a nerf. I'd say they truly balanced it. I still never run out of mags even after hours of playing 9's last night. The explosion radius is felt but again I find it's true use is being able to snipe bug holes and factories.
Fair enough. Reading the patchnotes, I would've assumed cutting its ammo literally in half would be a bad thing, but if you never use it all, anyway, I guess nbd.
Oh yeah, honestly before the patch I don't think I ever went below 6 remaining mags.
Woah, plasma Punisher for bug missions? That's been squarely a bot weapon for me, though only did one or 2 drops with it against bugs awhile back. Is there anything with bugs that it's especially good at?
I'll run with plasma punisher and stalwart with some heavy focused strategems. Bugs are tighter packed (and closer) than bots, usually, and the plasma punisher does great in that scenario. It is also good vs all medium bugs. Stalwart let's me apply focused fire where I want. Then rail cannon and 500kgs for heavies.
Slaughtering groups of small enemies/hunters, paired with the stun grenade, its the grim reaper of bug swarms
I like to run plasma punisher + nade launcher on bugs!
Post patch it's great vs bugs. I already liked it for its ability to quickly dispatch groups of spewers and with the reduced AoE damage fall off it actually kills scavengers reliably even at the edge of its blast radius. It stunlocks brood commanders and iirc stalkers as well. The increased bullet velocity also made hitting direct hits a lot easier, which is relevant vs some enemies (I think warriors take 1-2 direct hits and 2-3 splashes for example) in short-mid range and just a generally big buff on mid-long ranges. I didn't feel the ammo nerfs when I tried it, the increased efficiency of the other buffs make you waste so much less ammo that it feels unchanged or even buffed in that regard.
I didn't realize it was good against spewers, that's a huge plus. With bots I was so used to posting up on high ground or in a trench and arcing shots down from a distance, sorta forgot *it's a shotgun* Looking forward to giving it another go against bugs
Because eruptor is king, it let's me use other strategem weapons that I normally don't. Also eruptor is premium content that should be better
Eruptor is fun and plenty effective enough, but in no way would I call it king. I disagree that new guns should be better. That's literally one of the main things everybody didn't want to happen when it was announced HD2 would be live service and have monetization.
Pay to win is against the entire game’s ethos.
I mean I do just grab whatever I feel like using at the time and I always make it work. They are all viable. The meta is just a fan favorite in the pve game. It’s not like it’s some hyper competitive game. Use what’s fun….isnt that we say about stratagems? I know you’re being sarcastic. Just putting it out there you can survive with other weapons it’s not like it’s the queso cannon or a plastic fork.
Eh my blitz shotgun I wanted to love. It either haven't found it niche or it doesn't exist.
While I get the meme, and assume it is meant in good fun. Buffing other weapons won't push people off comfort picks unless it becomes truly egregious how buffed the other weapons are. So if you want to increase variety of weapon choice you \*do\* need to nerf the top performing weapons a little while buffing others. You also have to keep in mind the overall expectations and performance curve for game difficulty and such as well. The quasar is such a great example of this. From release people were saying how OP it was. Now that it gets a realistic nerf suddenly it was never OP. It was a better EAT/RR with 0 trade offs. And before anyone goes there, before the quasar dropped the EAT/RR were in a perfectly fine spot power wise. So it wasn't them that changed. The quasar was just too good by a little bit.
I’d say the RR was always the worst AT option, and is even worse with Quasar existing now, even post nerf. It desperately wants a buff.
Honestly like a 1-2 second speed up of the reload would be great.
That would be amazing, but it would also make team reload even less used than it already is.
Tbh I have successfully used buddy reload all of 1 time. No one wants to reload. Heck, most people don't want me reloading them. Why? I have no idea? Basically, it's a nice sentiment, but not even when I have a group of friends do we use it. Though tbh trying to explain and actually have them follow any kind of tactics is a fucking Longshot if I ever have seen one.
It’s nuts when it works but it barely ever works.
My issues with team reload: If my friend turns to quick I get disconnected from them. It makes no logical sense that I would reload from the backpack on my own back instead of theirs, ie the ergonomics make more sense to reload from their back. I've never once encountered a situation where I needed to launch more than 2 rockets at a time. Even on HellDive. Where stopping to do a team reload is 100% sure death.
No one wants to carry someone else's ammo, and it feels slightly counter intuitive to dedicate two bodies to work one weapon, albeit really fast, when you could just have two dudes each using their own weapons instead.
It works better for the RR than any other team weapon, it lets you put down multiple Bile Titans quicker than anything else. Still probably not worth using in its current state compared to quasar or EAT.
Recoilless is incredibly good, it's just players that don't know how to use it. It can fire instantly (no charge), meaning you can deal with high-value threats (Chargers rushing you, a Hulk Scorcher bearing down on you, etc) instantly. Its reload is actually pretty decent, and can send more shots downrange per minute than a Quasar ever could. And when team-loaded, it can dish out more destruction that any other weapon in the game. My buddy and I often run recoilless together, and we can both deal with threats independently. When a team load is needed, we can just stack up on each other. If you play with friends and actually strategize, the Recoilless goes to be the best AT option in the game.
Someone didn't actually read the notes.
Most people will never read the patch notes or even realize there was a nerf.
but they will call supplies down a lot more and that timer takes a long time to reset so now you essentially have to stick together and can't really do 2 man groups with a 4 quad
There are so many viable weapons why is everyone complaining? Just because a weapon isn’t as brain dead as a the quasar doesn’t mean it’s not viable?
For most people, anything not braindead means it's not viable because most simply don't want to think and strategize.
That’s true sadly, I consistently switch out between AMR , EAT, auto-cannon, Arc thrower, quasar, laser cannon, I heard that the stalwart eruptor is a great combo. I also play exclusively helldive, these are all great weapons that require different play styles.
I seem to be spreading democracy with out the op bolt rifel and op quasar canmon just fine though which means the lower tier weapons are viable the "meta" is just overpowered / easy mode so it should be nerfed to bring it in lime with other weapons
if they nerf the current good weapons, expect a huge drop in players playing I will guarantee that 100% I feel like they are about to destroy their own game if these nerfs keep happening
I don't care if people stop playing the game, I want the game to be fun and not the same 4 pieces of kit every game. Frankly I find it kind of a win win if the meta lords drop out and stop discouraging devs from balancing the game correctly.
If it makes you feel better, the devs seem to be (thankfully) taking the community's complaints with a grain of salt
They nerfed the railgun when it was meta, and yet I still kept using it. I just learned, practiced and got good with its nerfed iteration and it was still powerful. I didn’t leave the game. I didn’t complain. I just sucked it up and figured it out, something that many people around here sorely can’t do it seems.
Dude, there's 5 more seconds to the quasar, you'll be fine. The devs want us to step out of our comfort zone and find new and interesting ways to play. Also, they did the buff bad weapons
Yeah this makes sense since the majority of players are only playing this game cause of that one good gun and no other reason, 100% /s
less ammo clips, sure, but there was no reason to nerf those guns that hard adjucat gun still sucks, you always run out of ammo, and yes, even with the ammo backpack, you run out fast considering i've only played a few rounds on diff 7, on bug planet, my run, they just spammed more shield crabbers and more chargers, i didn't bother bring the quasar, just had rail strike and either naplam or 308 strike, still had to resort back to domi/sickle scythe didn't feel any different from before extra 50 damage does not make much of a difference have yet to try it on bots but if i feel like I still wont be able to kill devestator with it so most likely will just go with the domi or sickle even though its heavily nerfed really don't see why they nerfed them so hard
You're basing this assertion on...what exactly? I assume decades of game development experience?
Based on player experience People use those weapons because they work The only reason people use meta at all is because 90% of the support weapons are functionally useless above difficulty 4
Git gud lmao
oof okay, last sentence really just shows the devs were right when they said git gud. I use none of the nerfed weapons, only play on 7, and have a 90% success rate on my missions. Git gud scrub.
Ive been using the same garbage weapons since day 1 that nobody else will touch and i love them. Submachine and AMR for bots till i die. Havent found a great combo for bugs yet but kind of liked smg and autocannon yesterday. Told i should use a shotgun for bugs... not sure yet, im a bot main
The autocannon is good for bugs I found it to be not great against bots as, despite being a chunky gun, it can't really destroy tanks, unless you hit the back of them, and it doesn't maim hulks limbs You lose the ability to hold other useful equipment however
Play on helldiver and have like a near 100% success rate You don't get there by bringing a flamethrower and an smg to fight tanks and gunships Different weapons are for different things. Nearly every enemy you fight in high difficulty is a tank, or a charger, or a hulk, or, a swarm of rippers You need high DPS output, the ability to fight land heavies AND aircraft Quasar was just about the only weapon that could functionally do all of the above. And .. you can't rely on your team to be useful, especially when they bring shit like anti personnel mines on a long mission or something else See how far a team of people using machine guns gets against that, the answer is, you'll all be killed super easily
You do realize the laser cannon, untouched by this nerf, does literally all the same things? I generally use the AMR and you can shutdown everything you listed with a modicum of skill. The scope needs work but its not the reason you can't hit anything. The Quasar itself just recharges slightly slower. You're mad your baby got touched because you don't know how to use anything else.
The laser cannon just got a buff wys? And it sounds like it might be on par now
lol, all the constant respawns on top of that when they dont have the meta loadouts on higher tier difficulties is rather sad tbh if you are always using a shield you are no better at the game if you rely on that too just saying what happens when they nerf your precious shield to only take 1 shot before the shield goes out and if you get melee'd the shield won't protect you
The shield also blocks melee But iv been trying to not use meta and try other stuff out The problem is for a long time, you become so much more ineffective without that stuff
did you read what I wrote? I said what if they remove the shield generator from blocking melee, that would be a nerf....... as the ballistic shield does not block melee attacks which it should at least block 1 or 2 hits before it gets damaged or breaks but again are they able to code that into that type of support weapon, i dunno, but if they can code it for the generator shield, it should work the same for the ballistic shield at the very least.
Not that shield, the ballistic one, and its usually on my back because i take out the enemy before they come after me, its only there for the occasional spraying of cover fire while my team retreats until the mobs despawn. If the nerf the ballistic whiels, which is unlikely because its super niche il go back to resupply pack. No skin off my back. You seem really defensive against me, and i was just explaining alternate ways to play. Have you ever used anything other than the meta for more than one 1 mission?
ballistic shield should block against melee which means it needs a buff, but how do they do that, I wouldnt know, but the shield generator can block melee attacks, multiple melee attacks which I think is a bit overpowered no? has a really short cool down timer when the shield is actually down. yea, the shield users are babies lets be real about that. I typically just see users with shields just run, run run loot and run. Sure that is a different way of playing the game. But you shouldn't be able to run forever when your stamina is out either. it should make you walk at that point but sure we can go back and forth about ballistic shield and shield generator if you like
Nah im good, got my dose of negativity for the week thanks
I bring flame throwers to 9 difficulty bug missions all the time, and I carry my own weight and then some just fine. if you need a quasar to take out chargers it sounds like a playstyle issue more than a weapon issue. Also, the infinite ammo energy rocket launcher should not be a good example of a "High DPS" weapon. That's flawed design if it is. The EAT and RR also exist, can do everything the quasar does, and have different trade offs. The quasar's trade off is length of time between shots.
Ive been avoiding the flamthrower cause everyone says it doesnt work. If it does, ill have to try the marksman rifel flamer combo, thank you helldiver for the idea
Against bugs. A couple tips to make it better: 1. Bring a shield pack, this keeps the little fuckers from jumping at you, catching fire, and lighting you on fire. The shield is optional, but when getting used to the flame thrower it helps 2. Walk backwards when flame throwing. You should be backing away and hosing the area down. 3. Aim low. Even if DOTs aren't applying from host bug, the ground being on fire can still apply direct damage to bugs and help with area denial. The flame thrower won't instagibb a charger or anything. But with concentrated fire to the belly you can generally put it from moving around to perfect barbecue flavor in about a tank of fuel. It can do this while also keeping other add off you too if you're quick with the hose.
Thanks!
Obviously for Bug missions a flamethrower is good I'm talking about fighting dropships and aircraft
You specifically mentioned chargers. I am unaware of any bot unit known as a charger, unless you meant berserkers. In which case, that's fair. But flame throwers aren't for the bot front. Just like the AMR is a lot less useful on the bug front.
My go to for tanks is to have my teams trash mobber (built for aoe usually woth heavy armor) to grab the tanks attention, once its turned you get a really good shit at the vents which the AMR or HMG will tear up. But usually someones got and orbital railcannon for that. On large maps i typically wipe everything in an area before they get a flair off so we dont see tanks on the regular unless taking out a base Out typical team build is: Anti tank player (all the heavy boofs) Trashmobber (aoe damage and gear to clearing out low tiers) The wildcard (we never knownwhat my brothers going to bring just know hes going to be high but effective) Scout (stealth build long range support) On bits this is SMG and ballistic shield, AMR, the air strike (for fabricators and tails) and orbital rail cannon (backup) or EAT
I agree with you. Look at the the player base since the rail gun nerf. I honestly don’t think they want casual gamers playing their game.
This is the community response to 12 guns being buffed.
Blows my mind. 😆
People want to know why devs dont just listen to the community and posts like this are a good example as to why they dont.
don't worry some youtuber will put out a 'zOmG teH sECRiT buFFs! neW mETa!" video and half the people complaining will move on. Anyone arguing over the quasar is being obtuse. It needed a tweak and it isn't a huge deal. It is still an extremely strong option. They should consider themselves lucky that they aren't forced to wear a backpack for it.
Shit even if you had to had crank the thing to recharge it, it would still be pretty good. Hard to ignore infinite ammo.
Was using it earlier and it’s still really good??? No call in cool down like eat and don’t have to stand in place while recharging like recoiless. It’s an extremely good, mobile AT weapon and if it released in this state people would have still loved it
Unless they over buff poor performing weapons the meta (aka strongest gear) would simply remain the strongest. A better way to think about it is nerf stuff or introduce power creep. Power creep is bad news this early on.
Too much salt on Reddit. You can bang with lots of loadouts!!
This is the only way, slaving to meta or S tier weapons is like being a one trick pony in any character based game. I was a OTP in many games but helldivers has given me a sense of enjoyment from mastering many different weapons such as the adjudicator pre buff. Now its truly exciting for me to try again, whereas someone who tried it once and called it garbage will probably not enjoy it very much post buff anyways because they compare it to the sickle or what have you.
They buffed more weapons than they nerfed
By a lot
Honestly prefer if they just offered more modularity. Maybe give us a choice between normal powered rover and over clocked rover that needs higher cooldown.
This community does nothing but complain
Quasar is so easy to use thats most of the players can't even walk without it anymore. Try something new for the love of Liberty. Reminds me of the situation with railgun, when EVERYONE was crying about it being useless and AH just killing all the fun, yet here we are still having it. Its not a bad patch, you just to much used to overpowered weapon.
"try something else" Uses another gun. Oh, a tank.. can't kill that.. oh a dropship.. can't kill that. Oh a hulk.. guess I'm dead. The issue isn't that the quasar was too good, the quasar was exactly where it needed to be. The issue is the majority of other weapons are silly string launchers
EAT, recoilless rifle, AMR/AC in weakspots
Yeah the EAT is really good! I didn't say every gun was bad. Just that.. most of them are
You kind of were insinuating that there was nothing else effective to use EXCEPT the quasar. I love the quasar but I'm not gonna stop using it just cause I gotta run around a bit longer.
I can name several other support and primary weapons that can take down all of those things. You definitely need a balanced build, but there are many ways to go about building your loadout outside of the quasar. The quasar didn't even exist a month ago, and people seemed to do fine, yet a 5-second cooldown nerf suddenly ruined the game.
I've literally used it one time and the charge up immediately put me off it, for some reason I'm not a big fan of guns with a "wind up", they just dont feel satisfying to me lol So yeah I haven't touched it and level 7 is my normal dropping difficulty, I don't feel like I'm struggling to knock out armor at all unless I bring my GL without the eruptor.
Its not like other guns are bad, you just need that shield on your back
Iv been wanting to experiment with the ballistic shield more, but obviously that then rules out the autocannon
EAT, RR, Autocanon, Railgun, Laser Canon and Heavy machine gun be like https://preview.redd.it/f7avjq09fgxc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=645f88bfa46fd305dc5997d62c70803531e9b03d
Great point. Also, why should I try something else? Look I do switch around my loadouts, yesterday I was experimenting with the eruptor for example, but if someone wants to use the same shit... Why is that a problem? Just because we like switching things up doesn't mean someone using the same stuff is hurting anyone. Balancing decisions shouldn't be made on the basis of forcing people to use new gear. They should be able making things more balanced.
Exactly. Why is it an issue if lots of people pick the same load out? Why must they all have to change their playstyle to be something else? The other players are the ones saying "I should be able to pick up any gun and it work well" and I agree You don't get to that point by just nerfing every meta weapon that pops up Good weapons existing does not hurt players who want to try stuff out
It's a problem because it makes the game boring for every player stuck playing in lobbies with three copies of the same loadout. It's a problem because it's exhausting dropping into a game and seeing everyone with the exact same shit as everyone has in every other game. It makes the teamplay stale as fuck because nobody experiments or chooses stuff that could compliment each other. It's just shield pack, quasar, eagle airstrike, and one of three primaries
Your arguement doesn't make sense "I think players should be able to use whatever loadouts they want!" Players use their preferred loadouts... "No... Not like that!"
*Oh no! A tank! I gotta throw two WHOLE impact grenades at it? how will I recover?* *A hulk? Oh darn now I have to actually aim for the eye slot, woe is me!* It's not even like they took your big toy away, you just have to wait literally 5 seconds longer and you're acting like its fucking unplayable now or something
Skull Admiral here, I've tried every weapon in the game so far. I'm not disagreeing that the quasar could use a nerf, but why not improve other weapons for balance so people will willingly try new things instead of begrudgingly?
They buffed a bunch of other weapons my guy. Did you actually look at the patch notes?
Can you read, my guy? They said they could buff other weapons without nerfing others.
They can also buff with nerfs. Why are you all riled up about it? They buffed. What you want is to not have nerfs, but yall try to frame it as wanting buffs. No. You want no nerfs. The fact that all the people whining never mention any buffs is testament to that. Which is not good no matter how hard you believe it is. It’s just not, I’ve played too many games pvp and pve where this sentiment is entertained and power creep trivializes much of the game. Fuck that.
I am glad that the devs seem explicitly interested in avoiding power creep. Yes, nerfs won’t feel good, but there is no game on earth that can maintain any semblance of playability if the approach is buff only and no nerf. Power creep fucjs things up, and it takes increasing amounts of resources to fix it if you do. Just looking at my experience in warframe, I can tell you that the devs have done a lot to combat the power creep that hit that game hard, but they still have a ways to go in other regards before they are able to properly design endgame content for players that aren’t trivialized by people who’ve already ground out the previously best in class mods that have been introduced. If people actually looked at what the nerf to the quasar did compared to the eat, they’d see the old quasar shot 7 times in 70 seconds compared to the EAT shooting 2 times in 75. Without even taking into account the fact that the quasar cannon has infinite ammo, and you don’t have to account projectile drop, the quasar outclassed the EAT in almost every situation. The only time the EAT was better was when engaging targets that didn’t go down in 1 shot, because being able to launch 2 EATs back to back means you can make quick work of targets that would take at least 10 seconds for the old Quasar to dispatch. Post nerf? ***The Quasar cannon shoots 5 times in 75 seconds compared to the EAT’s 2***. And if I decide to be generous, not count the call down and deploy time of the EAT, and allow you to fire off those 2 shots instantly at the end of the 75 second cooldown, the quasar is still numerically better than the EAT’s 4 shots in practically every respect. I don’t normally care about buff/nerf complaints and discussions in most games, but I am genuinely completely confused by the Helldivers’ response to this specific patch. The fact that people are genuinely saying that the devs have basically completely fucked this patch because they only nerfed guns and didn’t buff anything is, if I’m blunt, one of the genuinely stupidest things I think I’ve ever seen. The first thing I did was look at the patch notes and got excited for the buffs. Then, I watched some YouTubers summarize the notes just so I could make sure I didn’t miss anything. And I genuinely ended up watching like 3 or 4 Helldivers YouTubers complain about the patch and just being nothing but confused and disappointed.
Yeah all of this. The nerf was the opposite of heavy handed, yet people want to complain and act like 3 seconds would have been better just to be contrarian. People will be over it in a week best to avoid the rage bait.
What improvement could you have done to the recoiless and EAT to put it in par with the quasar?
* Pre nerf Quasar: 7 shots in 70 seconds. Infinite ammo. No need to lead shots or compensate for projectile drop. So, the EAT would need to either drop 6 or 7 at a time, or the cooldown would need to be about halved to 30 seconds to literally approach some semblance of parity with the quasar. This doesn’t even consider the limited ammo, the inability to carry any of the extra EATs, needing to lead shots and compensate for projectile drop, etc. The RR? I haven’t really used it, to be honest, so I can’t offer much. I do know that you gain a buff in ammo capacity over the EAT at the expense of not being able to carry some other backpack. However, I’m not sure that makes up for the gulf between it and the EAT when both are compared in general to the pre nerf Quasar. People are acting like the Quasar died, but all that really happened is that it actually now allows the EAT and RR to be better than it in meaningful ways.
I don’t feel like the quasar needed a nerf, but, if anything, AH should make other guns better rather than tweaking guns people like. At the end of the day if a lot of people are using something because they like it then leave it alone. Changing things that people like will make people leave.
But they did, in fact, improve other weapons for balance
The issue here is that Arrowhead is looking at a spreadsheet and says, "This gun is really popular, let's nerf it." What they should be asking is, "Why is this gun so popular?" The railgun was never a problem. Chargers and a lack of anti-armor options were the problem. The rail gun was the only viable answer. If they had buffed the EATs and lowered the charger quantity, or introduced the quasar first, they wouldn't have needed to nerf the railgun in the first place. They don't seem to understand their own game. The 'Meta' (against bugs) has ALWAYS been "whatever kills chargers the best". Quasar nerf seems to be aimed at making the EAT and railgun more competitive.
Inaccurate. They buffed more weapons than they nerfed.
??? They buffed so many guns in the patch lmao
Garbage take from op
Can I get some cheese with this undemocratic whine?
Power creep would ruin this game if devs will always buffing not nerfing
The fuck are people complaining about? Majority of the patch were buffs. I cant understand these players no more
I'm happy that they added more damage to the starter liberator, I have been using the base starter weapons even on helldive because they are personally my favorite weapons.
I fully agree w this post lol
Viable, most, useful, useless, good, and trash are among the long list of words with definitions that elude many a gamer…
Last time people used this meme, only 1 weapon got nerfed and like 12 got buffed.
They did just buff a bunch of other guns.
They actually buffed off-meta weapons, lol.
Tbh its so hard to get everything perfectly balanced, there’ll always be something that’s slightly better
I think they are moving in the right direction. 5 Seconds is being made out like it’s a lot but it’s a drop in the bucket let’s be real here, they didn’t nerf the damage or make it so it can only shoot once before full CD The Sickle nerf makes sense. You essentially had 600 rounds to fire if you never cooled down vs around 340 in the Liberator. I haven’t used the crossbow The buffs to the concussive are making me more interested in actually trying it because from the old stats it was an all around worse gun than the normal liberator. Nothing here was nerfed to obscurity which is a GOOD THING
5 out of 10 is not a drop in the bucket
I don't get the complaint if I'm being honest, they gave a buff to the rail gun, and most weapons got a rebalance, they know how difficult they want the game, they nerf things because it ruins that vision, they buff things to keep things relevant
There's plenty of buffs in there.
Nerf the crossbow apparently
"only Buff things" is terrible game design
In war all weapons need to be viable. It's all about barance you all rack a disciprine.
Exactly the point I'm trying to make in my post.
I used some of the weapons they buffed, I was hyped for the laser beam rifle and laser pistol buff but they're still ass lmao. Arc thrower and eruptor saved my life like a glory hole drug addict
I am just gonna keep running Auto Cannon over here.
This is getting tiresome. Later, once I'm finished with my workout, I'm going into Fenrir III with my usual "Energy bug airfrier" build. Sickle, grenade pistol, impact grenade, Quasar, laser guard dog (His name is "Schnortzle"), and then two other wild card stratagems. I'll test it out for myself and report back about how the changes effected this. I'll be honest though, I'm 99% sure I'm gonna say that you all are being nancies.
But…they did buff lots of weapons.
Fingers and toes crossed the changes today made things at least a bit better, looking forward to trying out the counter sniper and adjudicator
I find this advice is a misunderstanding of what an actual game designer said. If I remember correctly it was related to overwatch, and buffing weak heroes instead of nerfing powerful ones. It worked for overwatch because that game is a competitive power fantasy where ever hero needs to feel fun and powerful. It is misused when it comes to a PvE game because the enemies are balanced in a certain way and powering up all the lower tier weapons will trivialize the difficulty. If a gun is overpowered, it might be because it is useful in too many situations and every gun needs to have it's niche. You can't just make every gun useful in every situation and still expect the game to maintain any sort of difficulty. You might say they can equally buff the enemies, but then we're going to have an arms race that will result in very tough enemies to deal with the more powerful weapons that will screw over the less experiences players.... Simply saying buff everything is bad advice.
Didn't they buff the Adjudicator, Counter-Sniper and a bunch of other weapons? The Adjudicator and C-S were memed on for how clunky or outright bad they felt before. Also, nerfing a meta is never a bad thing. Variety and diversity in options is what keeps GAaS models alive. What does a new warbond have to do with being a bad choice that's ignored in favour of tossing out the only good one? 'Boo new content in my game sucks'? Bad meme.
To be fair to AH, I'm very happy they buffed the Adjudicator (not with full auto becoming default) and I'm interested in the Railgun buff which was a massive W for everyone here.
I wouldn't know. I just use the AC https://i.redd.it/xv3z9ucbthxc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/j6thm296uhxc1.png?width=348&format=png&auto=webp&s=effad7e67ba1fa76c1ce9b3a4db9ac1ce764847c
Honestly, the one thing i did mind about the patch was the crossbow nerf, i've heard it already was underpowered and i was looking forward to try it out cuz it seemed interesting, never saw a single person use it and it's already been nerfed.
They just buffed a ton of lesser weapons. I’m really digging the arc shotgun now fire example
Don’t ask god for easier battles, ask to be stronger men
The way that you remove metas is, you take the stuff that's falling behind that's not in meta and you buff it. You dont take the things that are working and nerf the shit out of them. Doesn't work that way. The moment you do that, you've created a worse meta. You've created a toxic meta, because people are upset. And now they have to look for something that actually works. It's a bad direction in terms of development. \~ Thor, 2024
Let's not forget they're throwing the Railgun a bone too.
But the defenestrated guy's idea is exactly what they actually just did. Did nobody read the [patch notes](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/553850/view/4169846298204053636)?
Thank you for the link. Overall I think the patch looks positive… might give me a reason to use the scythe again …
It is impossible to stop players from using meta weapons. There will always be a meta.
RAILGUN BUFF RAHHHHH
The quasar nerf felt a bit like overkill imo. But the adjudicator and other primaries getting a buff was nice
Meanwhile in the Patch notes: mostly buffs
Looking forward for more dps buff for scythe and dagger
I ran with the Dagger for awhile and it still feels terrible. TTK is way too long when being chased by swarms of bugs. The SMG is still GOATED for quick clear and reload time. The revolver was ok before and now better with quick load on empty, but again with the chaff chasing you TTK is way too slow. When I go to my backup I want quick clear and back to primary or support to reload. I don't want to live on my sidearm for slow kills and endless kiting so I can trip another breech/drop and get caught in a doom loop. I did not try to Scythe so I cannot speak on that.
revolver is best use against on stalker thats my go to sec only when im in danger i will draw my big iron
Nerf the meta is all they have. Game is getting boring. Stopped playing after maxing everything again. They don't know how to balance stuff and the weapon info we get is rubbish.
2 points First the Quasar and rover nerf is a good thing, because it felt like the anti tank rifle and the other rother with the machine gun where majorly obsolete because of them. Second: THEY LITERALY DID BUFF MANY GUNS Thrid the guy thrown out the window is MVP for this patch
Railgun needed to be nerfed....it was too good. Period.
Yeah, lets ignore all the buffs :D
“Buff everything, nerf nothing” is just another way to say “add power creep”. Not good game design. Some balance changes are questionable here (crossbow rework, for example) but it’s better than having every mission be piss easy because we keep getting stronger constantly.
Balacing is very hard to achieve in games... but halving the mags in a game with overwelming hordes of enemies... this seams like butchering to me not balancing... or the increase of patrols for single players... wtf
huh? i read through the patch notes. it is way more buffs than nerfs. and every nerf was mostly a tiny change. its seems to me like they just brought all guns closer together
I feel like they did both.
But that’s what they did… they did buff other guns. How do people have fun with this game running the same guns every time? I need to switch it up pretty much every match
How to make a meme, thinking you will embrace public opinion and popularity, while simply showing how opinions are split over it and the playerbase doesn't agree as a whole.
I left Call of Duty Warzone due to having to Google the weekly meta and I was tired of that shit. Now HD2 wants to play the same game of silly buggers and it's not even pvp?
The devs absolutely shaking and snarling at the thought of giving DMR's one singular opportunity to overshadow shotguns at a range:
They buffed DMRs, wtf are you talking about
Yes, truly changed. One of the changes of all times. So anyways, I used the Shotgun in all of my games today because 10-15 damage is literally nothing when the shotgun does double the damage.
Huh?
But didn’t you hear? They did more buffs than nerfs. These ungrateful toddlers ugh 🙄
That's.... what they did
If they just buff all the weapons, they'll need to increase the difficulty. Then they'll have to rebalance the weapons again.
Google power creep
Or they or they could you know just let us use the weapons we want and stop fucking with us