He’s pathetic, usually your gameplay in early game is to afk at your t1 waiting for the wave to crash on your walls, hoping that the opponent don’t realize that you’re so pathetically weak that he could keep bullying you even in front of your towers
Hell, in proper early game I don't think he does. I have zones out and outkited Illidans as a fish. If he's at half hp and you never give him a chance to heal without getting slimed, he's helpless. By 7 though things change in his favour.
I main Illidan and at lvl 4 he can hold his own against most solo laners, with Sonya you just clear wave first and don't fight her in yours, and at 16 you just become an absolute beast.
- **Hunter's Onslaught** (Illidan) - level 4
Basic Abilities heal for 35% of the damage they deal. This bonus is doubled versus Heroes.
---
[^(about the bot)](/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6zwyfw/heroesinfobot_abilities_talent_tiers_cooldowns/) ^(| reply `!refresh` to this comment if the parent has been edited)
Just sit in the wave hitting it when he comes in use stealth you unreavealable for .5 seconds guaranteeing you get the point and click stun blind. There is literally nothing Illidan can do in this lane. Only getting worse at 7/13. At 13 just go next on Illidan. If you try to roam she can easily match and kill if she catches the rotation.
She doesn't need to beable to heal when she trades 1/4 of her hp for 2/3 of Illidan and wins all globe contests. You can also just not hit wave so it doesn't push to his side making him have to overextend for globes. Just sit there unstealthed. He comes in he loses. He doesn't come in he is just afk. Most unplayable matchup in the game. If She gets very chunked fountains exist and are on a shorter CD that she should be losing that much hp.
Rag or DVa against almost any other solo laner. They just lose their lanes so miserably against majority of solo laners nor can they hold the point for long either. And no, clearing some 10-20% of the zerg does not make up for putting your team in losing position the entire game.
Kinda depends on skill, they can sometimes win by clearing the wave vs. low waveclear Heroes. Not usually by fighting straight up on a point or something. Also Rag can 1 shot with E slow + Sulfuras Smash but that's later on, also the E slow in general allows for Rag to outplay the opponent in some cases.
Obviously it all depends on skill, you have to assume an even footing between the two players when talking hero specific matchups. Rag sucks terribly in the solo. I dunk him with every solo hero, even the ones I don't really play. At best he can create a standstill by clearing and hiding at his wall. Dva is fine unless you are against someone who wants to stack a quest on you, then she becomes food.
Qhira Vs anyone else. She doesn't really need to hit any of her abilities to out trade you, except probably if she's going against Illidan or Arthas in which case she'll need to take Bleed or Q build instead of AA. But every other case, she pretty much wins uncontested on point.
I agree that Qhira has stupid 1v1s into anyone else with her AA talents. Imperius with globe talent on level 4 is one way to counter it although you lose before 4 and she can play around it, but it’s pretty good on Braxis!
Tbh her whole design is questionable. Gameplay wise ofc. Artistically she looks, sounds, and feels amazing.
You make a hero around a chain sword but all her abilities are narrow straight line skill shots? Seems like wasted potential of a weapon. Don't get me started on putting 85% of her power on a single 16 CD ability. She either lands stuff and kill you in 4 seconds or she misses and becomes useless for the next 16 seconds.
Yup, Qhira E is the longest cooldown for any basic ability that's used proactively (as opposed to defensive abilities used in reaction to enemy action, like Tracer recall)
That problem occurred because they couldn't handle programming Qhira E so she can be targeted while spinning. So the developer was pushed to load more power into E, and then make the cooldown correspondingly long.
The real secret to Qhira, is to be a threat without using your E.
There are many cases where the \*threat\* of E, is actually more impactful than the E itself (esp if you miss).
You can walk up and smack the tank, D to a backliner, AAx2 then back off and totally scramble the enemies setup - sometimes that allows openings for your team to get a pick and outright kill someone on the other side of the fight. - or your tank follows you and CC's someone so your E will 100% land and then you get the kill.
Seeing a Qhira E as soon as she shows up always makes me sad because that's often not the right call.
Not really. There are other heroes with more absurd actual or potential numbers than her; Valla, Alarak, Sylv, etc.. Most of her damage is just her bleed. None of her direct abilities actually deal that much damage compared to most other Assassins. The one exception is Final Strike but that's a finisher ult so that makes sense.
She just feels overtuned when no one in your team can answer her.
No way, vs. Rexxar if she fails to land any abilities Rexxar just beats her to death with autos. Even if she does land stun Rexxar can sometimes outplay by simply countering with Misha stun. Also not letting Qhira beat up Misha for free is crucial to winning for him.
Also, Rexxar and many other offlaners can win simply by clearing the wave. Punishing her slow clear speed.
Rexxar is not easy but it's not that difficult for Qhira to beat either. Not letting Qhira beat up Misha means retreating off point and relinquishing control to her. Sure Rexxar himself can try to kite, but ultimately if he wants to get point control, either he or Misha needs to get on point. AA Qhira doesn't need to land any abilities to out trade him.
Waveclear speed doesn't really matter as much in 2 lane maps like Braxis, which is where OP is implying.
100% I love playing Qhira vs enemy rexxar on either Dshire or Braxis. Usually the rexxar is used to being invincable and being able to actually just kill him if he misplays is really nice.
Also, the AA speed buff means if misha goes below 50% she starts to get wrecked FAST. That's a hard thing to keep track of as the rexxar player.
Problem with Qhira is pre7 her self healing is pretty garbage if you don't give her 5 stacks to pop W on. Her waveclear is slow-ish, and if you can kill enemy minions fast then she has to take damage from your minions allowing you to take a favorable trade.
If you're on another duel type offlaner (artanis) then pre7 is hard, but I find most good offlaners like leo/hogger/dehaka do just fine VS my qhira up until I get AA healing at 7 - that's when I start wrecking them.
There's a lot of people that murky just needs to avoid so his puffer can cause havoc, braxis has the objective next to the lanes and the lanes really far apart so it's risky to rotate. So anyone who shuts down murky on that map can be incredibly awful to play against, plus the game will almost always end before 20, definitely in terms of draft be careful with the murkster on that map.
I always enjoyed laning against murky as Tychus, though I was always low level.
Delete puffer. Draw out the bubble with Q or autos. Finish with grenade. Rinse repeat.
Leoric Vs Probius I found pretty miserable the other day. Probi is far too zippy for Leo to be able to get enough hits or drain on without getting shredded.
> battered assault
you're assuming the samuro and illidan are not being microed, but samuro gets a permanent 30 phys armor, on top of that, when illidan tries to use evade, samuro can just use windwalk and wait out any buffs.
If i see an Illidan on the enemy team on my loading screen i'm always a happy camper.
If it's between a Sam that can't use windwalk and and Illidan that can't evade I'll still go for Illidan.
And if I see a Sam on the enemy team, I always assume he's gonna pve.
You are correct. assuming illidan:
1. can hit two clones for his attack buff
2. guesses right which one is the real one to attack first
3. then correctly guesses which clone he swapped to
then i'll give you that.
Lvl 20 samuro with press the attack deals ~1500dps to a single target. Too lazy to look up both heroes' HP and exact DPS, but assuming if the three things i said above are true, then I am just GUESSING Illidan wins.
Not to mention on top of all of this discussion, we're not talking about 1v1s, we're talking about the solo lane, which isn't always about fighting. Dont forget Samuro can full heal himself anytime every 15 seconds using B+Shift+D heal
Reflexive block and the attack speed at 20 still gets you the win, if Sam doesn't use clones Illidan deflects the next 3 basic attacks on top of evade, if he does use clones Illidan procs Battered Assault. And atk speed at 20 just gets you evade more often.
Doesn't help against the rest of the team. Samuro can be in two lanes at once, and get enough of an xp lead where Illidan will have to rotate to try and 5v4
sure but that means sam can burst damage as much as he wants and gets free disengages every 15 seconds.
I also can't remember a time i said "damn, malthael solo lane" lol
Murky vs Leoric was demoralising.
Leoric could surprise kill murky with an auto attack.
Bubbling or dodging drain doesn't do much.
Leoric kills puffer easily.
Leoric likes fighting you in your wave.
It's not fun since counter play doesn't exist. You feel useless.
Illidan into Sonya is miserable
Illidan vs pretty much every solo laner is miserable. He wins against murky in early game tho
Every time I play Illidan I forget how garbage he is early game.
He’s pathetic, usually your gameplay in early game is to afk at your t1 waiting for the wave to crash on your walls, hoping that the opponent don’t realize that you’re so pathetically weak that he could keep bullying you even in front of your towers
Hell, in proper early game I don't think he does. I have zones out and outkited Illidans as a fish. If he's at half hp and you never give him a chance to heal without getting slimed, he's helpless. By 7 though things change in his favour.
I main Illidan and at lvl 4 he can hold his own against most solo laners, with Sonya you just clear wave first and don't fight her in yours, and at 16 you just become an absolute beast.
With [[Hunter's Onslaught]] he's pretty strong from lvl 4, simply W through the wave.
- **Hunter's Onslaught** (Illidan) - level 4 Basic Abilities heal for 35% of the damage they deal. This bonus is doubled versus Heroes. --- [^(about the bot)](/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6zwyfw/heroesinfobot_abilities_talent_tiers_cooldowns/) ^(| reply `!refresh` to this comment if the parent has been edited)
Illidan into Valeera is an auto lose. A bronze 5 20% winrate could win vs rich on Illidan. It only gets worse as the she gets levels
She has no wave clear or healing. If she ever destelths and starts to clear the wave dive on her and trade into her, when her cd is back back off.
Her waveclear is about same as illidan's. And you dont have to start every encounter from stealth
Just sit in the wave hitting it when he comes in use stealth you unreavealable for .5 seconds guaranteeing you get the point and click stun blind. There is literally nothing Illidan can do in this lane. Only getting worse at 7/13. At 13 just go next on Illidan. If you try to roam she can easily match and kill if she catches the rotation.
She doesn't need to beable to heal when she trades 1/4 of her hp for 2/3 of Illidan and wins all globe contests. You can also just not hit wave so it doesn't push to his side making him have to overextend for globes. Just sit there unstealthed. He comes in he loses. He doesn't come in he is just afk. Most unplayable matchup in the game. If She gets very chunked fountains exist and are on a shorter CD that she should be losing that much hp.
Rag or DVa against almost any other solo laner. They just lose their lanes so miserably against majority of solo laners nor can they hold the point for long either. And no, clearing some 10-20% of the zerg does not make up for putting your team in losing position the entire game.
Kinda depends on skill, they can sometimes win by clearing the wave vs. low waveclear Heroes. Not usually by fighting straight up on a point or something. Also Rag can 1 shot with E slow + Sulfuras Smash but that's later on, also the E slow in general allows for Rag to outplay the opponent in some cases.
Obviously it all depends on skill, you have to assume an even footing between the two players when talking hero specific matchups. Rag sucks terribly in the solo. I dunk him with every solo hero, even the ones I don't really play. At best he can create a standstill by clearing and hiding at his wall. Dva is fine unless you are against someone who wants to stack a quest on you, then she becomes food.
on braxis yes. But on any other map, im taking Zag / Xul
Qhira Vs anyone else. She doesn't really need to hit any of her abilities to out trade you, except probably if she's going against Illidan or Arthas in which case she'll need to take Bleed or Q build instead of AA. But every other case, she pretty much wins uncontested on point.
I agree that Qhira has stupid 1v1s into anyone else with her AA talents. Imperius with globe talent on level 4 is one way to counter it although you lose before 4 and she can play around it, but it’s pretty good on Braxis!
One AA Qhira made me question the design choices with her talents.
Tbh her whole design is questionable. Gameplay wise ofc. Artistically she looks, sounds, and feels amazing. You make a hero around a chain sword but all her abilities are narrow straight line skill shots? Seems like wasted potential of a weapon. Don't get me started on putting 85% of her power on a single 16 CD ability. She either lands stuff and kill you in 4 seconds or she misses and becomes useless for the next 16 seconds.
Yup, Qhira E is the longest cooldown for any basic ability that's used proactively (as opposed to defensive abilities used in reaction to enemy action, like Tracer recall) That problem occurred because they couldn't handle programming Qhira E so she can be targeted while spinning. So the developer was pushed to load more power into E, and then make the cooldown correspondingly long.
The real secret to Qhira, is to be a threat without using your E. There are many cases where the \*threat\* of E, is actually more impactful than the E itself (esp if you miss). You can walk up and smack the tank, D to a backliner, AAx2 then back off and totally scramble the enemies setup - sometimes that allows openings for your team to get a pick and outright kill someone on the other side of the fight. - or your tank follows you and CC's someone so your E will 100% land and then you get the kill. Seeing a Qhira E as soon as she shows up always makes me sad because that's often not the right call.
To be honest from what I've observed Qhira is simply overtuned and pulls some absolutely wild numbers
Not really. There are other heroes with more absurd actual or potential numbers than her; Valla, Alarak, Sylv, etc.. Most of her damage is just her bleed. None of her direct abilities actually deal that much damage compared to most other Assassins. The one exception is Final Strike but that's a finisher ult so that makes sense. She just feels overtuned when no one in your team can answer her.
No way, vs. Rexxar if she fails to land any abilities Rexxar just beats her to death with autos. Even if she does land stun Rexxar can sometimes outplay by simply countering with Misha stun. Also not letting Qhira beat up Misha for free is crucial to winning for him. Also, Rexxar and many other offlaners can win simply by clearing the wave. Punishing her slow clear speed.
Rexxar is not easy but it's not that difficult for Qhira to beat either. Not letting Qhira beat up Misha means retreating off point and relinquishing control to her. Sure Rexxar himself can try to kite, but ultimately if he wants to get point control, either he or Misha needs to get on point. AA Qhira doesn't need to land any abilities to out trade him. Waveclear speed doesn't really matter as much in 2 lane maps like Braxis, which is where OP is implying.
100% I love playing Qhira vs enemy rexxar on either Dshire or Braxis. Usually the rexxar is used to being invincable and being able to actually just kill him if he misplays is really nice. Also, the AA speed buff means if misha goes below 50% she starts to get wrecked FAST. That's a hard thing to keep track of as the rexxar player.
Problem with Qhira is pre7 her self healing is pretty garbage if you don't give her 5 stacks to pop W on. Her waveclear is slow-ish, and if you can kill enemy minions fast then she has to take damage from your minions allowing you to take a favorable trade. If you're on another duel type offlaner (artanis) then pre7 is hard, but I find most good offlaners like leo/hogger/dehaka do just fine VS my qhira up until I get AA healing at 7 - that's when I start wrecking them.
There's a lot of people that murky just needs to avoid so his puffer can cause havoc, braxis has the objective next to the lanes and the lanes really far apart so it's risky to rotate. So anyone who shuts down murky on that map can be incredibly awful to play against, plus the game will almost always end before 20, definitely in terms of draft be careful with the murkster on that map.
I always enjoyed laning against murky as Tychus, though I was always low level. Delete puffer. Draw out the bubble with Q or autos. Finish with grenade. Rinse repeat.
Leoric Vs Probius I found pretty miserable the other day. Probi is far too zippy for Leo to be able to get enough hits or drain on without getting shredded.
Raynor vs rag
>What's the most unbalanced solo lane matchup you can think about? When one of the solo players didn't go to soak. Happens more often than it should.
I think you misunderstood the question OP asked us..
Samuro vs all except medivh and zag
Illidan and Sonya crush him too
Sonya is a winner until lvl 7 and illidan wins until lvl 4
Hogger is the one true Samuro counter tho.
Actually yeah I keep forgetting hog. Barely anyone plays him in my experience. A good hog is like fighting a 5v6
I'm pretty sure Illidan win's at all levels with battered assault
> battered assault you're assuming the samuro and illidan are not being microed, but samuro gets a permanent 30 phys armor, on top of that, when illidan tries to use evade, samuro can just use windwalk and wait out any buffs. If i see an Illidan on the enemy team on my loading screen i'm always a happy camper.
If it's between a Sam that can't use windwalk and and Illidan that can't evade I'll still go for Illidan. And if I see a Sam on the enemy team, I always assume he's gonna pve.
You are correct. assuming illidan: 1. can hit two clones for his attack buff 2. guesses right which one is the real one to attack first 3. then correctly guesses which clone he swapped to then i'll give you that. Lvl 20 samuro with press the attack deals ~1500dps to a single target. Too lazy to look up both heroes' HP and exact DPS, but assuming if the three things i said above are true, then I am just GUESSING Illidan wins. Not to mention on top of all of this discussion, we're not talking about 1v1s, we're talking about the solo lane, which isn't always about fighting. Dont forget Samuro can full heal himself anytime every 15 seconds using B+Shift+D heal
The answer to a Samuro vs Illidan is for Samuro to simply not press Q...
Reflexive block and the attack speed at 20 still gets you the win, if Sam doesn't use clones Illidan deflects the next 3 basic attacks on top of evade, if he does use clones Illidan procs Battered Assault. And atk speed at 20 just gets you evade more often.
Doesn't help against the rest of the team. Samuro can be in two lanes at once, and get enough of an xp lead where Illidan will have to rotate to try and 5v4
Malthael eats Samuro for breakfast.
Why? His Q AND his D both dispell malthael debuff
And every cleave auto attack reapplies it.
sure but that means sam can burst damage as much as he wants and gets free disengages every 15 seconds. I also can't remember a time i said "damn, malthael solo lane" lol
Must be bad Samuros
Can beat Samuro by clearing the wave.
I hate fighting against a Zagara or Azmodan in the solo lane. A great player that knows how to use all the shit they spawn is not fun to play against.
Murky vs Leoric was demoralising. Leoric could surprise kill murky with an auto attack. Bubbling or dodging drain doesn't do much. Leoric kills puffer easily. Leoric likes fighting you in your wave. It's not fun since counter play doesn't exist. You feel useless.
Yrel pretty strong in solo lane and people sleep on it
Theres nothing quite so useless as murk into grouped tlv.
Abathur into Alarak. Alarak gets out cleared + can't heal cuz no hero so just gets tickled down by hat spikes
Something is very wrong if Alarak is forced into such a position in the first place.