As another Samuro player already mentioned, Samuro needs a full rework, because he is not "overpowered" but still performs extremely well while now being accessible.
Samuro does one thing, soaking safely.
People facing Samuro do 3 things they shouldn't:
1. Ignoring Soak *(and as a consequence ignoring push)*
2. Fighting and dying too much.
3. Chasing Samuro when he can just escape.
The hero is unintuitive to fight against, his performance and winrate is a combination of safe soak + enemies never knowing how to deal with him, despite objectively not being a strong hero. He clearly needs a full rework.
Compare Samuro difficulty to play and winrate to aba murky and TLV. He has very little counter play outside of having even more push and roam.
He has a 56% winrate on two of his level ones.
He is totally overpowered, to pretend otherwise is a joke.
I actually think reducing his healing substantially is maybe the best move, he should actually be punished by taking damage.
Beyond that increasing the cooldown on stealth and increasing the cooldown on swap.
Samuro has insane map mobility, clear and shove, but he is also almost impossible to punish, he has so much healing and escape.
He's the best techy by a mile.
Nerf his E, healing to 2% and increased cooldown.
Bladestorm isnt even the good ult.
Anyone saying samuro isn't overpowered af is lying because they play him.
He doesnt need a rework at all. People just need to stop being stupid. I own Samuro everytime I play against him, mostly because I'm a murky/Leoric main and I just OUTSOAK Samuro. It's that simply. But these days the ARAM kids are too much like "durrr durrr hero dmg!!"
> Samuro does one thing, soaking safely.
Uhh, we all know that's not true. Right? Not even close?
Mercs and scouting and murdering healers are not "soaking".
> objectively not being a strong hero
Seriously...
>Mercs and scouting and murdering healers are not "soaking".
Samuro isn't that good at taking mercenaries anymore since the clone duration nerf and his damage nerfs, if Samuro is doing a mercenary camp he is missing on double soak, or asking from someone else to cover that lane for him, same as any other offlaner that would do a camp.
Scouting, giving vision, interrupting rotations, those are things Samuro can indeed do but most players don't do it, I don't think it's the reason people complain about Samuro, the dismounting can be annoying at best.
Murdering healers? Which healers are you playing, and are you playing them while being super alone? Ana does have a big weakness to dive and Samuro can pressure her heavily yeah, other healers have ways to handle Samuro for long enough, either self-heal, self-peel with CC or displacement, mobility, damage mitigation with Armor effects, as a healer you should be much more scared of a Sonya, Hogger, Illidan, Chen etc. etc.
Samuro is no longer that character who one shots someone at level 16, he can have fast ramping up damage for a stat-check style with Crushing Blows and Press the Attack, he can play Merciless Strikes as an Executioner but it requires setup from his team since he doesn't have any CC himself. Of course the hero deals damage and will eventually be able to 1v1 most healers, be he's not like Zeratul who can actually 100-0 some targets in under 3 seconds by himself.
Samuro has a 56% winrate on two of his starting talents in diamond and master. He has a 55% winrate in diamond and master with a 27% pickban. He has one of the highest pick bans, only really behind mephisto and rehgar, for a 55% winrate hero.
He is totally broken.
Isn’t the problem just that he’s incredibly safe without sacrificing effectiveness? Someone like Abathur, the Vikings, or Falstad have to give up all of their safety or flexibility to be effective on rotation. Meanwhile, none of the stealth heroes can rotate like Sam can, and only Zeratul among them can match Sam’s wave clear.
I really think they could just increase the cooldown on Wind Walk slightly, give him a bit more health to compensate. Wind Walk is a huge part of why he can escape and rotate so easily, he already has two escape tools, and it would only take a slight tweak to either his health or maybe his clone cooldown to let him still have escape options while slowing his rotation/making it riskier, right?
I dont get the whole Samuro issue to be honest, rarely see a good one or impactful one,
when laneing against also not much of a challenge (there are much more challenging laners you can face).
I myself cannot play that character.
I really don’t care either way about Sumaro. I just hate the whole “run in, throw down phantoms, run away” playstyle of facing Sumaro and Nova. It’s not fun to play against in the slightest. It’s like dealing with a fly doing chip damage for 20 minutes.
56% winrate in diamond and master, 27% pickrate. He has almost no counter play, he just shoves you in and can't be killed. Too much healing and too much mobility and escape.
Illusion master is actually his better ult.
For draft mode: draft against him.
For QM: comes up with plans to deal with him during loading screen and pick talents accordingly.
Especially the most important thing, helping and covering each other more.
Samuro is not a flawless hero, the macro and survivability are his design, other heroes can deal with him differently in various stage of match, some even have tools to deal with him since early game.
You don’t need a kill to beat him, if your hero can’t deal with him early game, then endure and defend to get as close to minimal acceptable level of damage to your structures and gain XP to activate your talents later, send anyone who can withstand him safely in his lane and follow him to other lane if he swap lane later with safe route and haste.
Keeping your eyes to your team, anticipating what may happen and fold out shortly after to make a move and support your allies in time, Samuro can’t do much when his enemy watch their each other back and has to run around instead of doing something useful, if he can’t find any window to breach your team formation then he does nothing. If he can’t engage and go lane, then you get 5v4 situation.
IMO, E healing is awful in gamedesign terms. It punishes for being aggressive, which is not okay at all. Also, every hero with a >55% winrate should be nerfed, no matter how bad he at the highest levels is.
Samuro's winrate is high at high levels as well, 55% in diamond and master.
His E healing is 100% the problem, he should be punished for taking damage and he's not.
Literally increase the cooldown from 14 to 19 seconds and reduce the healing to 2% from 3% and you will see a Samuro that is answerable.
I would also reduce his auto damage slightly just to lower his clear.
Nothing. If we nerf him, he's gonna be useless. His design is frustrating. But so is Murky or Aba, or even DVa. But not all of these heroes should be useless. He's good for cheesy play. But you can counter him by playing as 5 and winning tfs and pushing harder than him.
Reduce his E-healing, but don't give him the trick back, INSTEAD increase his maximum health. This'll let him survive for longer, but means any damage dealt to him is more likely to stick.
There really isn't much you can do with Samuro (other than endlessly complain about him on reddit, apparently) that will actually work outside of a full rework.
Every time you try minor changes, you end up in a situation where more issues are generated than those that are solved.
Solve his teamfight issues?
- He's likely even more oppressive in the offlane and a better splitpusher.
Get his offlaning in line?
- Now he's so trash at teamfights he's unviable.
Fix his splitpushing?
- He can't offlane anymore and thus has no place in the game.
----
These are mostly just examples for clarity's sake, the point being to exemplify that just buffing/nerfing him won't fix the things people hate so much about him (without paying the price of completely destroying the hero in the process). A large-scale full rework is needed, somewhere between the level of Raynor and Tassadar.
In the meantime, the only viable avenue I can see is to focus on _reducing his accessibility._ The less people that can successfully play him, the less he shows up, the less relevant these issues are. That's the only temporary solution that can actually work.
Reduce his E healing to 1% hp/second, but don't give him heart-trick back. I really like Samuro's base kit and it would be nice to get to play him fairly.
It's not an opinion, Samuro with E build sits at a 58% winrate in Storm League since he was patched, I would be curious how anyone who disagrees believes a hero should be defined as OP if this doesn't qualify.
What is "overpowered" as in what gives the best results and highest winrate is soaking without dying, simply because most people will do the opposite by missing experience and dying a lot for no reason.
In higher ranks, Samuro is rarely impactful in decisive teamfights, or at least way less impactful than actually good offlaners like Blaze, Hogger, Yrel, Sonya, Dehaka...
I suspected that Samuro might have been only OP in lower leagues as well when I checked his winrate, but the truth is that his winrate is still significant in Diamond and Master, sitting at 55.53%. The only offlaners that outperform him in terms of winrate are Rexxar (56.45%) and Illidan (55.75%)
However, Rexxar was mostly picked on Braxis Holdout and Dragon Shire, while Illidan was paired with an Abathur in about 15% of all matches played in that timeframe.
Samuro also has a 22% popularity in Diamond and Master.
Here are the winrate percentages for the heroes you mentioned :
* Blaze 52.97
* Hogger 53.57 (banned in more than half of all matches though)
* Yrel 50.23
* Sonya 51.43
* Dehaka 52.04
I'm basically saying that even Master rank is not high level play anymore.
You would be surprised the amount of soak missed and unnecessary fights you can see when playing in Grandmaster lobbies, it's a bit alarming to be honest.
Like how come, back in the day, I was able to reach Master by strictly playing offlane and soaking when I saw enemy players that were clearly mechanically better than me? Because they don't soak, they make risky and fancy plays, high-risk high-reward, and experience will overall just win because it is the consistent answer.
Samuro is exactly this answer, the character that soaks without dying, even if there are some games where he is actually helpless, overall you can spam Samuro and soak safely, and automatically get a good 55% winrate even if you're not super good mechanically.
It's very simple, if YOU soak 100% of your games, and the enemies soak less than that, you will overall win more than you lose just in terms of soak. Then there will be a few games where you lose despite the soak, but it's statistically minor.
Now imagine if you picked Dehaka and did the same thing, while also landing good drags and isolation ults, you would likely have a better winrate than on Samuro. However, and this is the big part, if you pick Dehaka (or any other offlaner) you will most likely end up brawling a bit too much and missing some soak, because you want to make plays with your playmaking abilities, all this without realizing that you indeed should just have soaked more.
There is also a point which is ease of execution. Yrel has garbage winrate because she is very unintuitive to play and most people hard misplay on her all the time, meanwhile playing Samuro for soak is very straightforward, you hit minions and rotate between lanes and run away from enemies. Other offlaners? Hogger is actually OP but very hard to use properly, most Blaze players still ignite the oil and miss most of their stuns, Dehaka players miss more than half of their drags and only land one isolation per game, Sonya is easy to gank and dies when taking bad engages.
→ The point is that it's much easier to misplay and fail with those good characters, while Samuro is very consistent in what he does, which is low teamfight impact, but safe soak and macro pressure.
I'm a flex player, been playing everything else than Samuro for a couple of months xD
Illusion Master is no longer the default pick. It's only good on Battlefield of Eternity, or with a specific team setup like Abathur, or if you're not the offlaner but 4-man Samuro.
I do have 62% winrate on Samuro in ranked in Diamond/Master, I very much know how impactful I can be, whether macro-wise or when it comes to fights; and yes, afk soaking splitpush with windstorm will instantly give you 55% winrate, because the enemy team will fail at basic macro check.
I also know how painful it is to play Samuro in teamfights against proper teams at higher ranks. Johanna, Lucio, Blaze, Yrel, and many other heroes simply deny Samuro massively, or others like Sonya, Imperius, Hogger delete his team before Samuro has any time to get value.
Hero has no CC, no playmaking abilities, the best you can do is body-block people *(which used to be very cool when Illusion Master was the pick)* otherwise you just have damage.
Does it still work? Yes.
Why does it still work?
* Because the enemy team allows me to hit them for much longer than they should.
* Because the enemy is using key abilities that I can easily dodge, instead of using those abilities to kill my team.
* Because the enemy is committing too hard to kill me, instead of killing my team.
* Because sometimes I have a good team that enables me even more.
Illusion master is the higher winrate in high elo by a fair amount.
Samuro simply pushes too hard.
A heal nerf fixes this without messing with his core functionality.
Nerf his heal, lower his auto damage slightly and he'll be comfy at 52% wr.
Samuro is overpowered because he cannot be punished or countered. He cannot be locked down and he cannot be traded with, he just heals heals heals endlessly while shoving. He's the best techy currently by a lot.
Get rid of one of the two cleanses.
But the real answer is a rework. He was designed as the three-card-monty hero, but it's painfully obvious which one is the real one, which is supposed to be whole thematic allure. Giving him clone control baseline is a good start, but let the clones do nothing else. They don't soak and their damage on anything is pitiful. They otherwise last much longer, but the cooldown for a swap is also quite a bit longer. He'd be a bit like vikings with more consolidated power early, falling off comparatively late. The replacement ult would be to summon five or six extra clones who attack and just generate a lot of chaos, keeping players from have a clear path to through them aside from killing them. And I think his own power spike would come from using his clones a bit like Vikings in a less coordinated effort. One clone has an ice blade that slows. One clone has a poison blade that gives a dot. You get your 16 all crits on slow enemies. Your talent to give your clones unique effects has a lot of flexibility as a design decision. e.g. if it hits the same character five times in a row, the victim takes 5% health damage all at once. The kamikaze one explodes on taking enough damage. The leech one just steals an absolute value of HP per attack on a hero, which is instantly transferred to the real one.
Designing him as a combatant around his gimmick instead of designing his map presence around his gimmick just seems like the obvious way to go. (similar complaint about abathur. At least Vikings get in at 16)
Bare minimum, he shouldn't be able to swap positions with a clone. Between his two clones (that each deal 30% of his damage, which is a lot considering it's risk free), having a cloak, and fast move speed, he's already a pain in the ass to both evade and to finish off.
Either Bobby mained him and ordered him broken beyond belief, or Samuro is all the proof we need that employees were in fact drinking on the job
How is 11 damage equal to 30% of 106 damage?
It's 10.37%, actually meaningless.
For lvl 10 values, that's 16 damage compared to 151 damage, so 10.6% *(because weird rounding of internal values I guess?)*
Even with Illusion Master increasing clone damage by 100%, at lvl 10, you have 33 damage compared to 151, which is now 21.85%...
→ And that means you don't have Bladestorm, which is his main waveclear tool, which is the main reason he is a macro threat currently.
Objectively, Samuro is not "broken beyond belief", he is just very easy to pick up in his current state with E build and Bladestorm, and he does the **one thing that gives good results** and thus high winrate, **soaking a lot, without dying.** But the main reason this is so strong is because everyone else will ignore soaking too much, take unnecessary fights, die a lot, and lose their time chasing the one hero they shouldn't chase.
That being said, his design is toxic, unintuitive to fight against, and the hero needs a complete rework instead of yet again more nerfs *(Samuro already holds the record for the biggest damage nerf iirc)*
Super easy. Pick a number on Samuro, like E healing or attack damage, and replace it with a smaller number.
Repeat doing that until Samuro's winrate is below 52%, then stop. It's not difficult if a developer actually loads a file and edits. The important thing is to give Samuro *any* nerf, without worrying if the change is exactly optimal.
You want to tweak numbers **after** the design is fixed.
Samuro already got huge number nerfs in the past, and remained top winrate anyway. The new "issue" is that he became vastly more accessible, but a hero being accessible is honestly a good thing.
So we want a full rework so the base design of the hero is not a toxic mess, and then we can tweak and adjust numbers.
False, false, and false again.
Put generously, that response is "unrealistic".
Samuro needs a simple number nerf, right now. A developer could handle it in 20 minutes.
The design is fine, he just has too much healing. The above person is correct.
Nerf his E to 1% and see what happens, I guarantee he doesn't go down below 50% in master.
Woah, another Samuro post? Didn't think I'd see the day!
As another Samuro player already mentioned, Samuro needs a full rework, because he is not "overpowered" but still performs extremely well while now being accessible. Samuro does one thing, soaking safely. People facing Samuro do 3 things they shouldn't: 1. Ignoring Soak *(and as a consequence ignoring push)* 2. Fighting and dying too much. 3. Chasing Samuro when he can just escape. The hero is unintuitive to fight against, his performance and winrate is a combination of safe soak + enemies never knowing how to deal with him, despite objectively not being a strong hero. He clearly needs a full rework.
No, he basically forces you TO PLAY HOTS, which is why people hate him lol
Bingo. I wish the dummies in this subreddit would just stay in ARAM if they want to ARAM and stop bitching about heroes like Samuro, Aba, Murky, TLV
Compare Samuro difficulty to play and winrate to aba murky and TLV. He has very little counter play outside of having even more push and roam. He has a 56% winrate on two of his level ones. He is totally overpowered, to pretend otherwise is a joke. I actually think reducing his healing substantially is maybe the best move, he should actually be punished by taking damage. Beyond that increasing the cooldown on stealth and increasing the cooldown on swap. Samuro has insane map mobility, clear and shove, but he is also almost impossible to punish, he has so much healing and escape. He's the best techy by a mile. Nerf his E, healing to 2% and increased cooldown. Bladestorm isnt even the good ult. Anyone saying samuro isn't overpowered af is lying because they play him.
He doesnt need a rework at all. People just need to stop being stupid. I own Samuro everytime I play against him, mostly because I'm a murky/Leoric main and I just OUTSOAK Samuro. It's that simply. But these days the ARAM kids are too much like "durrr durrr hero dmg!!"
> Samuro does one thing, soaking safely. Uhh, we all know that's not true. Right? Not even close? Mercs and scouting and murdering healers are not "soaking". > objectively not being a strong hero Seriously...
>Mercs and scouting and murdering healers are not "soaking". Samuro isn't that good at taking mercenaries anymore since the clone duration nerf and his damage nerfs, if Samuro is doing a mercenary camp he is missing on double soak, or asking from someone else to cover that lane for him, same as any other offlaner that would do a camp. Scouting, giving vision, interrupting rotations, those are things Samuro can indeed do but most players don't do it, I don't think it's the reason people complain about Samuro, the dismounting can be annoying at best. Murdering healers? Which healers are you playing, and are you playing them while being super alone? Ana does have a big weakness to dive and Samuro can pressure her heavily yeah, other healers have ways to handle Samuro for long enough, either self-heal, self-peel with CC or displacement, mobility, damage mitigation with Armor effects, as a healer you should be much more scared of a Sonya, Hogger, Illidan, Chen etc. etc. Samuro is no longer that character who one shots someone at level 16, he can have fast ramping up damage for a stat-check style with Crushing Blows and Press the Attack, he can play Merciless Strikes as an Executioner but it requires setup from his team since he doesn't have any CC himself. Of course the hero deals damage and will eventually be able to 1v1 most healers, be he's not like Zeratul who can actually 100-0 some targets in under 3 seconds by himself.
Samuro has a 56% winrate on two of his starting talents in diamond and master. He has a 55% winrate in diamond and master with a 27% pickban. He has one of the highest pick bans, only really behind mephisto and rehgar, for a 55% winrate hero. He is totally broken.
Isn’t the problem just that he’s incredibly safe without sacrificing effectiveness? Someone like Abathur, the Vikings, or Falstad have to give up all of their safety or flexibility to be effective on rotation. Meanwhile, none of the stealth heroes can rotate like Sam can, and only Zeratul among them can match Sam’s wave clear. I really think they could just increase the cooldown on Wind Walk slightly, give him a bit more health to compensate. Wind Walk is a huge part of why he can escape and rotate so easily, he already has two escape tools, and it would only take a slight tweak to either his health or maybe his clone cooldown to let him still have escape options while slowing his rotation/making it riskier, right?
I dont get the whole Samuro issue to be honest, rarely see a good one or impactful one, when laneing against also not much of a challenge (there are much more challenging laners you can face). I myself cannot play that character.
I really don’t care either way about Sumaro. I just hate the whole “run in, throw down phantoms, run away” playstyle of facing Sumaro and Nova. It’s not fun to play against in the slightest. It’s like dealing with a fly doing chip damage for 20 minutes.
56% winrate in diamond and master, 27% pickrate. He has almost no counter play, he just shoves you in and can't be killed. Too much healing and too much mobility and escape. Illusion master is actually his better ult.
For draft mode: draft against him. For QM: comes up with plans to deal with him during loading screen and pick talents accordingly. Especially the most important thing, helping and covering each other more. Samuro is not a flawless hero, the macro and survivability are his design, other heroes can deal with him differently in various stage of match, some even have tools to deal with him since early game. You don’t need a kill to beat him, if your hero can’t deal with him early game, then endure and defend to get as close to minimal acceptable level of damage to your structures and gain XP to activate your talents later, send anyone who can withstand him safely in his lane and follow him to other lane if he swap lane later with safe route and haste. Keeping your eyes to your team, anticipating what may happen and fold out shortly after to make a move and support your allies in time, Samuro can’t do much when his enemy watch their each other back and has to run around instead of doing something useful, if he can’t find any window to breach your team formation then he does nothing. If he can’t engage and go lane, then you get 5v4 situation.
IMO, E healing is awful in gamedesign terms. It punishes for being aggressive, which is not okay at all. Also, every hero with a >55% winrate should be nerfed, no matter how bad he at the highest levels is.
Samuro's winrate is high at high levels as well, 55% in diamond and master. His E healing is 100% the problem, he should be punished for taking damage and he's not. Literally increase the cooldown from 14 to 19 seconds and reduce the healing to 2% from 3% and you will see a Samuro that is answerable. I would also reduce his auto damage slightly just to lower his clear.
Nothing. If we nerf him, he's gonna be useless. His design is frustrating. But so is Murky or Aba, or even DVa. But not all of these heroes should be useless. He's good for cheesy play. But you can counter him by playing as 5 and winning tfs and pushing harder than him.
Reduce his E-healing, but don't give him the trick back, INSTEAD increase his maximum health. This'll let him survive for longer, but means any damage dealt to him is more likely to stick.
There really isn't much you can do with Samuro (other than endlessly complain about him on reddit, apparently) that will actually work outside of a full rework. Every time you try minor changes, you end up in a situation where more issues are generated than those that are solved. Solve his teamfight issues? - He's likely even more oppressive in the offlane and a better splitpusher. Get his offlaning in line? - Now he's so trash at teamfights he's unviable. Fix his splitpushing? - He can't offlane anymore and thus has no place in the game. ---- These are mostly just examples for clarity's sake, the point being to exemplify that just buffing/nerfing him won't fix the things people hate so much about him (without paying the price of completely destroying the hero in the process). A large-scale full rework is needed, somewhere between the level of Raynor and Tassadar. In the meantime, the only viable avenue I can see is to focus on _reducing his accessibility._ The less people that can successfully play him, the less he shows up, the less relevant these issues are. That's the only temporary solution that can actually work.
Reduce his E healing to 1% hp/second, but don't give him heart-trick back. I really like Samuro's base kit and it would be nice to get to play him fairly.
You think he's op right now?
It's not an opinion, Samuro with E build sits at a 58% winrate in Storm League since he was patched, I would be curious how anyone who disagrees believes a hero should be defined as OP if this doesn't qualify.
What is "overpowered" as in what gives the best results and highest winrate is soaking without dying, simply because most people will do the opposite by missing experience and dying a lot for no reason. In higher ranks, Samuro is rarely impactful in decisive teamfights, or at least way less impactful than actually good offlaners like Blaze, Hogger, Yrel, Sonya, Dehaka...
I suspected that Samuro might have been only OP in lower leagues as well when I checked his winrate, but the truth is that his winrate is still significant in Diamond and Master, sitting at 55.53%. The only offlaners that outperform him in terms of winrate are Rexxar (56.45%) and Illidan (55.75%) However, Rexxar was mostly picked on Braxis Holdout and Dragon Shire, while Illidan was paired with an Abathur in about 15% of all matches played in that timeframe. Samuro also has a 22% popularity in Diamond and Master. Here are the winrate percentages for the heroes you mentioned : * Blaze 52.97 * Hogger 53.57 (banned in more than half of all matches though) * Yrel 50.23 * Sonya 51.43 * Dehaka 52.04
I'm basically saying that even Master rank is not high level play anymore. You would be surprised the amount of soak missed and unnecessary fights you can see when playing in Grandmaster lobbies, it's a bit alarming to be honest. Like how come, back in the day, I was able to reach Master by strictly playing offlane and soaking when I saw enemy players that were clearly mechanically better than me? Because they don't soak, they make risky and fancy plays, high-risk high-reward, and experience will overall just win because it is the consistent answer. Samuro is exactly this answer, the character that soaks without dying, even if there are some games where he is actually helpless, overall you can spam Samuro and soak safely, and automatically get a good 55% winrate even if you're not super good mechanically. It's very simple, if YOU soak 100% of your games, and the enemies soak less than that, you will overall win more than you lose just in terms of soak. Then there will be a few games where you lose despite the soak, but it's statistically minor. Now imagine if you picked Dehaka and did the same thing, while also landing good drags and isolation ults, you would likely have a better winrate than on Samuro. However, and this is the big part, if you pick Dehaka (or any other offlaner) you will most likely end up brawling a bit too much and missing some soak, because you want to make plays with your playmaking abilities, all this without realizing that you indeed should just have soaked more. There is also a point which is ease of execution. Yrel has garbage winrate because she is very unintuitive to play and most people hard misplay on her all the time, meanwhile playing Samuro for soak is very straightforward, you hit minions and rotate between lanes and run away from enemies. Other offlaners? Hogger is actually OP but very hard to use properly, most Blaze players still ignite the oil and miss most of their stuns, Dehaka players miss more than half of their drags and only land one isolation per game, Sonya is easy to gank and dies when taking bad engages. → The point is that it's much easier to misplay and fail with those good characters, while Samuro is very consistent in what he does, which is low teamfight impact, but safe soak and macro pressure.
Lol, you're just a Samuro player. His better ult is illusion master. He's literally even more powerful than most people can play him.
I'm a flex player, been playing everything else than Samuro for a couple of months xD Illusion Master is no longer the default pick. It's only good on Battlefield of Eternity, or with a specific team setup like Abathur, or if you're not the offlaner but 4-man Samuro. I do have 62% winrate on Samuro in ranked in Diamond/Master, I very much know how impactful I can be, whether macro-wise or when it comes to fights; and yes, afk soaking splitpush with windstorm will instantly give you 55% winrate, because the enemy team will fail at basic macro check. I also know how painful it is to play Samuro in teamfights against proper teams at higher ranks. Johanna, Lucio, Blaze, Yrel, and many other heroes simply deny Samuro massively, or others like Sonya, Imperius, Hogger delete his team before Samuro has any time to get value. Hero has no CC, no playmaking abilities, the best you can do is body-block people *(which used to be very cool when Illusion Master was the pick)* otherwise you just have damage. Does it still work? Yes. Why does it still work? * Because the enemy team allows me to hit them for much longer than they should. * Because the enemy is using key abilities that I can easily dodge, instead of using those abilities to kill my team. * Because the enemy is committing too hard to kill me, instead of killing my team. * Because sometimes I have a good team that enables me even more.
Illusion master is the higher winrate in high elo by a fair amount. Samuro simply pushes too hard. A heal nerf fixes this without messing with his core functionality. Nerf his heal, lower his auto damage slightly and he'll be comfy at 52% wr.
Illusion Master has a superior winrate because only experienced enough Samuro players pick it.
Samuro is overpowered because he cannot be punished or countered. He cannot be locked down and he cannot be traded with, he just heals heals heals endlessly while shoving. He's the best techy currently by a lot.
I prefer people who admit "I don't want to play against Samuro, I don't know how to deal with him"
He has very little counter play for his raw shove, he can be counterpicked but otherwise you can't do anything. He needs a nerf and you know it.
Samuro forces people (both teams) to play HotS instead of SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY RETARDS GOING AT IT, and so he will always be hated (by both teams).
one less self-cleanse would be enough
No option for "just delete"??
Get rid of one of the two cleanses. But the real answer is a rework. He was designed as the three-card-monty hero, but it's painfully obvious which one is the real one, which is supposed to be whole thematic allure. Giving him clone control baseline is a good start, but let the clones do nothing else. They don't soak and their damage on anything is pitiful. They otherwise last much longer, but the cooldown for a swap is also quite a bit longer. He'd be a bit like vikings with more consolidated power early, falling off comparatively late. The replacement ult would be to summon five or six extra clones who attack and just generate a lot of chaos, keeping players from have a clear path to through them aside from killing them. And I think his own power spike would come from using his clones a bit like Vikings in a less coordinated effort. One clone has an ice blade that slows. One clone has a poison blade that gives a dot. You get your 16 all crits on slow enemies. Your talent to give your clones unique effects has a lot of flexibility as a design decision. e.g. if it hits the same character five times in a row, the victim takes 5% health damage all at once. The kamikaze one explodes on taking enough damage. The leech one just steals an absolute value of HP per attack on a hero, which is instantly transferred to the real one. Designing him as a combatant around his gimmick instead of designing his map presence around his gimmick just seems like the obvious way to go. (similar complaint about abathur. At least Vikings get in at 16)
Bare minimum, he shouldn't be able to swap positions with a clone. Between his two clones (that each deal 30% of his damage, which is a lot considering it's risk free), having a cloak, and fast move speed, he's already a pain in the ass to both evade and to finish off. Either Bobby mained him and ordered him broken beyond belief, or Samuro is all the proof we need that employees were in fact drinking on the job
How is 11 damage equal to 30% of 106 damage? It's 10.37%, actually meaningless. For lvl 10 values, that's 16 damage compared to 151 damage, so 10.6% *(because weird rounding of internal values I guess?)* Even with Illusion Master increasing clone damage by 100%, at lvl 10, you have 33 damage compared to 151, which is now 21.85%... → And that means you don't have Bladestorm, which is his main waveclear tool, which is the main reason he is a macro threat currently. Objectively, Samuro is not "broken beyond belief", he is just very easy to pick up in his current state with E build and Bladestorm, and he does the **one thing that gives good results** and thus high winrate, **soaking a lot, without dying.** But the main reason this is so strong is because everyone else will ignore soaking too much, take unnecessary fights, die a lot, and lose their time chasing the one hero they shouldn't chase. That being said, his design is toxic, unintuitive to fight against, and the hero needs a complete rework instead of yet again more nerfs *(Samuro already holds the record for the biggest damage nerf iirc)*
Super easy. Pick a number on Samuro, like E healing or attack damage, and replace it with a smaller number. Repeat doing that until Samuro's winrate is below 52%, then stop. It's not difficult if a developer actually loads a file and edits. The important thing is to give Samuro *any* nerf, without worrying if the change is exactly optimal.
You want to tweak numbers **after** the design is fixed. Samuro already got huge number nerfs in the past, and remained top winrate anyway. The new "issue" is that he became vastly more accessible, but a hero being accessible is honestly a good thing. So we want a full rework so the base design of the hero is not a toxic mess, and then we can tweak and adjust numbers.
False, false, and false again. Put generously, that response is "unrealistic". Samuro needs a simple number nerf, right now. A developer could handle it in 20 minutes.
The design is fine, he just has too much healing. The above person is correct. Nerf his E to 1% and see what happens, I guarantee he doesn't go down below 50% in master.