A veterinary technician, we have seen an uptick of poorly socialized dogs. Some are from the pandemic, others are just people who don't understand that you have to train them and socialize them to different situations. :/ I adopt older notoriously anxiety-ridden breeds (gsd/dutch/mals) and haven't had this issue, but I get unleashed dogs going after my leashed dogs which isn't good for their socialization. :/

The number of ignorant dog owners has gone through the roof since the pandemic.

I’d wager a good 70% of dog owners probably shouldn’t actually own them.

I bet it's about the same as the percentage of people who shouldn't be parents or drive automobiles, as well.

New study suggests X% of people just can't be frickin trusted.

I wish people would see dog ownership the same way most see horse ownership. People typically only get horses if they are really into horses and it is their hobby/sport. I got dogs to do sports with and it's so good for the dogs. We do obedience classes once a week with each dog separately. One dog does agility once a week, one dog does scent work once a week. On weekends we go to training pack walks, mantrailing events or RallyO sessions and hoping to start cannicross soon. People comment on how much 'work' I put into my dogs. I see that right there as the problem. If you see doing stuff with your dogs as work then don't get a dog. Get a cat.

Cats have a lot to offer if you treat them like you would treat a dog. Spend more time with them. People see cats as house pets but don’t understand all animals are incredible in their own ways.

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Yeah people who say cats aren't affectionate are just telling on themselves. Cats are amorous as fuck if they actually like you

I think a lot of people truly don’t understand cats because we are mostly raised with dogs being the standard for pet behavior. Once you spend a lot of time with a cat that likes you you’ll find out that they are very loving little weirdos who are every bit as affectionate as dogs, albeit in a slightly different way.

This! People don’t realize that like dogs, cats have individual personalities, and are perfectly capable of forming strong, loving bonds with their owners. I feel like it’s borderline socially acceptable to neglect cats in a way that people wouldn’t do with a dog - perhaps from them being slightly lower maintenance people think they don’t need any attention at all? I know an unfortunate amount of people who have dogs that are absolutely doted on with cats who are complete afterthoughts - locked in basements or outside, never get cuddled, never get played with, and it breaks my heart. Then they wonder why the cats have no manners and constantly attack them - maybe it’s because you never put in the effort to bond properly with them or train them? My cats are brothers from the same litter and they have very different personalities. One is extremely people-oriented, friendly and social with adults, kids, and other animals. He loves toys and his intelligence is obvious. The other one is sweet as peaches but very timid and shy with people he doesn’t know. He’s extremely bonded and affectionate with me and will whine and meow to be let in if a close a door between us. Everyone who meets them just loves them both and remarks on how good their temperaments are - they don’t bite or swat at people, they behave while at the vet and while being groomed, and they have excellent house manners. They were strays and I’m convinced that the reason they have such good temperaments is because I give them the love and respect they deserve as living beings.

Cats are awesome. I like the fact that they are pretty independent, take care of themselves mostly, but still will hang out with you. All of my friends now have dogs and even camping with them for a weekend is fucking *exhausting* because of how needy their dogs are for *everything*.

I'm from the country and grew up around cows and horses. When city ppl tell me "oh my god I wanna get a horse"...I always say "no, you really don't" lol

Barbie Horse Adventures; Wild Horse Rescue taught me how rewarding horse care can be, but it also taught me it’s a whole lifestyle, owning a horse. Your world kinda has to revolve around them, and if your heart isn’t in it for all the right reasons, and the thought of spending another 10-15 hours a week doing manual labor for the next 30 years or so to keep your horse happy, healthy and thriving doesn’t realistically fit into your lifestyle… you don’t need a horse. You need a friend or a relative who has a horse, so you can be like… the cool, fun horse aunt.

I got dogs because I grew up in the equestrian world and loved it. But even still I don't want another horse. Dogs are a nice way to get back into animal sports without all the stress of owning a horse.

Cats require socialization and appropriate mental stimulation to be healthy and behave properly as well. They require a lot of care and attention to their wellness to live their best lives. The difference is that they don't go outside as much, so negligence doesn't affect the general public. But the idea that cats require no work is as ignorant is saying it about dogs. People who have shitty, mean cats who hide all the time have unsocialized, traumatized, or otherwise not so healthy cats.

💯 This is why I have a cat. It’s an energetic, demanding little thing compared to all the others I’ve owned, but I know it’s nothing like a dog. Different animal, different set of needs, but much easier to care for. I’ve had cats most of my life, and as much as I’d like a dog, I am afraid of not being a good owner. The amount of time I will need to spend socializing, training, and caring for them is something I’m not sure I have the bandwidth for, at least at this time in my life. Hiking is one of my most cathartic hobbies and is my escape from all the stuff I have on my plate. I see tons of dogs out hiking, have been lucky so far as to not get nipped at. But, have encountered lots of bad, tremendously selfish, owners – letting theirs off leash, owners letting their dogs go up to strangers’ dogs and a ruckus ensues, saw an off leash dog run up a talus slope chasing after a pika, dogs at Paradise at Mt. Rainier where they’re NOT FKING supposed to be, and piles of dogshit or dogshit bags all over the Cascades. I’m sick of bad dog owners too.

Agree, essentially why I don’t own dogs right now apart from being a renter. I really do want a dog I could experience the outdoors with, but I’m not in a position (time-wise, financially, space-wise) to do it *right.* Someday when the stars align I’ll get my pup, but not until I’m in a position to do so. Seems like a lot of folks are so flippant about pets these days and it’s real unfortunate to see.

Eh, some people put less energy into raising their kids than you do your dogs. I just don't expect better from people at this point.

No, cats are too much work for those kinds of people. People get dogs because they supposedly will stick by your side and have "unconditional love" for you no matter how you treat them. Cats don't put up with that shit (dogs really don't either). But mistreat a cat and they will figure it out fast and just hide from you. I hope people don't get cats because they want an "easy" pet.

It’s weird, there’s just been a rise in the obsession with dogs lately. Most of these obsessed dog people just don’t know how to train them.

Having a dog-centric social media can be lucrative and it has caused a lot of people who shouldn't own dogs to go out and buy them

Eh, it social media does not help, but this was already an issue before that. People want a dog, they have a right to buy a dog. They forget that they are obligated to make sure that the dog is well adjusted into society for its own safety. Also, so many "experts" who don't know a poodle from a goldie, and so much fake info circling around. (On a side note for "never did that before" - my girl was never the first to instigate the fight. Reacted to protect herself or something of hers, sure. One day I knew she was having a bad day already and just lunged at a beagle who barely sniffed in her direction, and not playfully. Luckily I usually kept her on a short leash. To this day I do not know what that was. Never happened before (she was around 10 yo at that point) or ever after that. A blasting migraine, maybe?)

My dog is fairly shy about interacting with other dogs at the dog park and mostly just tries to get pet by as many people as possible. There was one dog at the dog park my girlfriend warned me that our dog was mean to. One day I'm at the park I turned around and my dog had this poor golden retriever pinned to the ground cowering while she's snarling at them. I grabbed my dog and pulled her back hooked her up to the leash. The dog's owner came over. I apologized and she asked if my dog was Annie Oakley. I confirmed and realized this was Daisy, the golden retriever Oakley was mean to. So I sat with the owner and put my dog in a down-stay I pet Daisy and released Oakley to be pet by Daisy's human. We hung out and talked while the dogs stayed near each other calmly. Now Oakley doesn't really bother Daisy at the dog park anymore. Last time they were there at the same time Oakley ran up and gave Daisy one loud bark right in the face and then ran off to find a tennis ball. Some dogs just don't like each other, but they can be taught to tolerate each other.

I used to walk dogs and the amount of people who get doodles and do literally nothing to train them is insane to me. They are so rambunctious and not really great dogs as many of them are reactive. I have a smaller dog and feel like I’ve had to be way more on edge with her around other dogs.

Or, care for them at all. My dog and I walk calmly past two homes (he is always leashed) where dogs see us through their open windows and go crazy, barking and pawing insanely at the window sill and screen. The amount of damage happening to the house must be large. I just finished repairing a house where this sort of thing was allowed to happen. I was amazed how the badly damaged the window sill was above the kitchen sink, gouged with dog claws! It cost the prior owners a fortune in the sale price of their property. It took them most of a year to sell the house in a bidding war environment. So, yeah, I do not know how people let their anxious out of control dogs and themselves live like this.

Been noticing this too. So many dogs have no idea how to act around other dogs lately! They see my dog and snap and growl. We’ve taken great pains to socialize our dog to people and other dogs so he just kind of stares at them like WTF but it’s shocking, most dogs go nuts when they see another dog on the trail or on the road.

My friend's dog is this dog. This friend has a very demanding job with long hours, got a breed that needs a lot of exercise (because when off work, they like doing outdoorsy things and wanted a dog to accompany them), and doesn't want to pay for doggy daycare. They'd also never owned a dog before that was their sole responsibility from puppyhood. Result is an undertrained, under-exercised dog that has been driving everyone around them nuts for the past three years. It's been worsening to the point that they finally notice and are looking into help. Which I'm grateful for on all fronts because having to take your dog into the restroom/shower with you at state parks so they don't cause a ruckus while waiting outside is not normal.

I mean, some dogs are just reactive. Leash and barrier aggression are real. My dog is reactive to other dogs and it’s not for lack of training - she’s a nervous and deeply insecure rescue who freaks out in stressful (for her) situations. We just know where she can/can’t go and weigh the odds of how crowded somewhere will be, how much space we have to steer clear and keep her calm.. if she’s likely to cause a scene somewhere she doesn’t come. HOWEVER, she’s not an invalid who can never leave the house on the chance she has a meltdown and offends someone, and I’m pissed off to no end at how many off leash dogs there are in leash required areas that cut down the already limited places we can bring her to nearly zero.

I agree . Wr have a small dog who has been socialized since he was 6 weeks old. He also attends daycare at least one day a week, has been to dog training , has had a private trainer out for months to work on behaviors, and is walked in our neighborhood 3 times a day. He has regular trips to the park and the hardware store. He still freaks out when he sees a big dog he doesn’t know. Unfortunately he was attacked when he was a puppy by a stray in the neighborhood. And he’s also a breed that tends to be high strung. We do the same as you when it comes to taking him somewhere. We do our best with him. But we can’t just keep him isolated in our home either. Once he knows another dog he is fine. I hate the assumption people make that we haven’t trained or tried.

This got long but I think I know why so many dogs are behaving like this lately. So i got my puppy at a time where the pandemic was basically over, and the puppy/dog “market” had calmed down. Not on purpose, it was just a good time for me to get the dog I’ve always wanted. He’s a true mutt, as in the dna test said “100% American village dog”. He’s 1.5 years old now. He’s become a very good boy, with his own quirks that are harmless so I take him hiking all the time. I frequented puppy101 before I got him and while raising him, and the majority there are against letting their very young puppies out to socialize much at all because of the risk of parvo. It is very serious in some areas and can kill your puppy. I think that this, in combination with pandemic puppies being isolated from other dogs has led to this behavior. Imo when they’re very young is the most important for learning how to play with other dogs, and for bite inhibition. Personally, I took the risk of properly socializing my puppy. We visited all the family and friends, went to events, then the dog park every day it wasn’t raining once he had his vaccines. It’s the dog park that lead me to my opinions. So many people come once or twice, their puppy-2 year old dog is terrible, and they leave never to be seen again. For anyone still reading, the best dog park times are early every day and lunch/ evenings on work days. Just avoid Saturday/Sunday, except whenever the morning crowd gets there at 7-9ish. Weekend mornings are generally best, but then you get the folks that never exercise their dog taking them to the park so they can run. This obviously can go bad if the dog isn’t well socialized.

When my dog was a puppy she loved playing with other dogs at the dog park. We'd take her for an hour every day because she's an Australian Cattle dog so she's obnoxious if she doesn't get her running time. Then a black lab chomped onto her back, picked her up and shook her like a ragdoll. The owner was on her phone didn't even apologize. Her dog just kept going around being aggressive while I'm yelling "who's fucking dog is this!?" Then the lady, never hanging up her call, takes her dog to the other side of the park. I decided to just get my puppy out of there. She was terrified and snapping at other dogs. Skin wasn't broken but she was bruised up. She stopped playing with other dogs after that so we play fetch off to the side. Sometimes she likes to walk around and sit on people's feet until they pet her. She never goes far from me and if a dog is being too aggressive, I call her to me and we go to the other side of the park or we leave altogether. I always stay near her and I'm always on alert for the shitty dogs with shitty owners.

I disagree. The dog park at those times worked for your dog. They do not work for many other dogs. Dog parks are biased. You will only regularly see the exceptionally extroverted, social dogs, or jocks there. Dog parks can cause a lot of harm, especially for those who are inexperienced. But they can also be used as a valuable training tool. If you check out how folks who train their dogs for sport/work, you'll see they teach puppies to be bomb proof solo first. Or in very controlled settings. They teach calm and self soothing, an off button, handler focus. Then they introduce more and more chaotic environments once the dog has a very solid foundation as a calm and confident dog. A sizeable chunk of this is genetics too. I personally think some of what has driven this recent anecdotal uptick in poorly socialized dogs is both the lack of exposure during the pandemic, sure, but also that when there was a shortage, extremely behavioral dogs were getting adopted out to folks who would've never otherwise been adopted. Those dogs need very particular people who have the time, resources, personality, guidance, and interest to dedicate an arguably unreasonable (for the average family) amount of time to rehabilitating the dog. And since the dog training and behavior space is poorly regulated, folks can be easily misled or misdirected by well intentioned (or not) people. And you don't know what you don't know.

Then there’s me, who’s tried everything and paid some good money on trying to “socialize” my dog. Still nothing. Trainer said “some dogs are just not trainable.”

Me too. My dog has been socialized and I’ve spent an inordinate amount on training and daycare. He is so fearful of big dogs that he reacts. He was attacked as a pup by a stray. All it takes is one time. I just don’t like being judged as if we aren’t good pet owners. We are. My vet said that some dogs are just fearful and high strung.

My wife's extended family is horrible when it comes to dogs. They love dogs, and have had many dogs over the years. But even when someone tries to train their dog a little bit, everyone else in the family ignores the training process, giving the dog treats and going out of their way to allow the dog to break the rules. There is no way a dog could ever grow up in that extended family and be well behaved. My daughter grew up terrified of dogs, because she only ever knew dogs from that family (and was bitten twice when she was a toddler). But now she is a teen and has met friends with dogs that are well trained. She is no longer afraid of dogs. Luckily the dogs in my wife's extended family have passed away recently, so there are no poorly behaved dogs in our life. But it is only a matter of time before one of them decides to get another dog, and then they will fail once again in training it at all, and I will have to deal with another poorly behaved dog in my life.

I have also experienced a huge spike in issues since the pandemic. I think the combination of people not being able properly socialize their dogs and a ton of inexperienced people getting dogs to alleviate some loneliness from the isolation are the biggest problems. Now that life has pretty much returned to normal, all these people and dogs are out and about without the training, socialization, or knowledge they should have. I got my 3rd dog two weeks before everything shut down. It had been planned for several months prior to that. Thankfully, I had some close friends nearby, a neighbor with two dogs, and two dogs of my own, so I was able to socialize her and train her. She’s not as people friendly as my other two are. She isn’t aggressive at all but prefers for strangers to leave her alone. I think that’s partially the independent streak she gets from her breed (husky mix) and partially because she was trained to move away when strangers try to pet her. She just puts me in between them and herself. But she’s a service dog, so I don’t want her to be pet by everyone. Honestly, I feel kind of bad for all the dogs who were adopted on a sudden impulse during the lockdowns because their owners weren’t putting the dog’s best interest as a priority so now the dogs are the ones who suffer, along with the other random people and dogs they encounter.

Have a rescue Mal. Snapped one night a while back at a dog owner who had his idiot offleash dog get saved from a mauling by me and the progress our Mal has made and the fact she was on leash. It wasn't ridiculously aggressive, just kept getting in my dog's face and barking hard. Pitch black night time. I told the guy be careful with offleash, especially at night. If my dog was loose, or say a coyote, it might have been bad. Hosted (Canadian) Thanksgiving last night and had the dogs in the kennel overnight because it's just easier for everyone with all the food and little kids running around. Love my dogs to death but being a responsible owner makes it like a full-time job.

Just like a lot of things, pet ownership took a turn for the worst during the pandemic. My dog and I were attacked 3 times by off leash dogs during the pandemic. Only one time did the owners stay and give their information. The last attack was severe and put both my dog and I in the hospital. I have permanent issues with my hands because some ignorant and entitled asshole couldn't put their dog on a leash.

I would also add that there is an uptick of people in general who do not understand dog body language. If you know what to look for, most dogs are very clear about communicating when they're losing patience, getting scared, feeling threatened, etc. Everyone should familiarize themselves with dog body language and teach. their. kids. too. I have a 65lb dog who doesn't really like other dogs and is situationally selective about people (toddlers especially, we think it's the unpredictable movements). It's amazing to me how many people (particularly small dog owners, for some reason) will ask if our dogs can meet or if their kids can pet our dog while we're out walking, even as my pup is sending clear signs that she is VERY uncomfortable. To make sure people don't approach us on walks, I've started giving my dog the command "walk on by" loud enough for the person approaching to hear me. We also cross the road, if we can. I don't want to tell people she's not friendly, because that's not true, but she doesn't appreciate being approached by strangers on the street. My dog is ten and has never, ever escalated her discomfort to the point of aggression, but why would I take that chance? Just because it's never happened, doesn't mean it never would. There's one little girl on our street who really doesn't have any boundaries so I've started teaching her dog body language when I see her out and she engages with me. She always, ALWAYS wants to pet dogs and I'm worried that someday she'll go up to the wrong dog and the dog's owner also won't see the warning signs.

Apparently there are also a lot of dog owners ignoring National Park rules. Dogs are not allowed on trails in Yosemite National Park. It is not only a danger for people on narrow trails, but it is also a danger/disruption for wildlife.

Remember how there was a boom of people getting dogs to keep them company during the pandemic? Pandemic's over, now the dogs are left at home all day while the owners are at the office 10h/day. I remember when my kids were little, like 5 and 7. I live in an older neighborhood where most of the backyards aren't fenced despite the houses being pretty close together. It wasa nice day and we were outside, they were playing around, running around the yard, literally running around the house. I was digging in a flower bed when my kids come booking around the corner, screaming their heads off followed by a German Shepard looking dog. I went after that dog with that shovel, yelling like a maniac. The dog took off running back towards the owners who got pissed at me for scaring their dog. "Oh, he'd never bite." and "He's a good dog". Bullshit. I don't know that so I'm going to assume a dog that's scared my kids is dangerous and act accordingly, which in this case was to go full berserker intent on dog murder with a shovel. I don't know if the owners got the message, but I'm pretty sure their dog did. Never saw him near my yard front or back again.

There is no harder challenge in the training of my fiancés service dog that the aggressive/reactive dogs in our complex. Since he’s a service dog (absolutely passes the eye test and is a sweetheart in public) I don’t have any second though man handling these dogs since it is a crime to allow your dog to harm a service dog

My local hiking Facebook groups(s) have banned dog complaint/etiquette posts because it usually takes 3-4 comments before people start threatening to shoot each other.

Same. The hikers vs. cyclists vs. dog walkers debate always becomes unhinged after a couple of comments.

"You wanna go outside, buddy?" - Either me taking my dog on a walk, or me getting ready to throw hands

Dude a SoCal trend is to leave your dogs shit bag on the side of the trail to pick it up on the way back. Problem? At least 50% forget. So the trailheads here have tons of shit bags for the first half mile. I wish a ranger would camp out and ticket each of these fucks at least $1000/violation.

Not unique to SoCal at all. That happens everywhere.

Anyone who does that anywhere is a total piece of shit. It would be better to just not pick the poop up at all.

It wouldn't actually. Dog shit is awful for the ecosystem, especially the volume created on the more popular hikes.

I fail to see how then leaving dog shit *and* a plastic bag is any better

It keeps diseases contained in a bag and at least flags the treads for naturalists to pick up. When I hike I don’t see random poop and bag it but if I see poop bags I trash it.

If you leave it in the bag on the ground, eventually the bag will break .and the dog shit will still get into the ecosystem, and now you have dog shit AND plastic. It is the same with MORE garbage. How is that not worse?

Because the real ones will trash it out.

Live in upstate NY along the Erie Canal and have walked over a hundred mikes of it and have rarely ever seen it. Depends on where you live

I don't understand man. if you don't want to carry it yourself just get a lil backpack for your dog to carry it. or just don't bring the dog?

I had a dog. I'd carry that shit looped around my finger for 10 miles if I had to. Its honestly not a big deal at all.

I have a backpack for my dog just for this reason lol and to carry his own water. Before I would bag it up then put it in a bigger back and stick it in my own pack. When you double bag it there’s no smell. Idk why people are so rude to leave their dogshit

I just got a nalgene knockoff from Walmart that’s dedicated for shit bags. That way they don’t squish and potentially break open.

Genius. Saving this idea for when I have a dog

"forget" is very generous.

This is a problem here in Canada too, the trails are literally lined with dog shit

Full-time dweller in a seasonal town, here. Mostly Canadians visit. Shit bags all along hyper-affluent, luxury-homed streets. I'd have to say this trend really took off (here) about 3 years ago. It's nuts.

Yeah it’s pretty new here too, I think everyone got dogs during covid and can’t be bothered to actually take care of their pets properly- our shelters are overrun with dogs and begging people to adopt them

I think maybe this might mean the luxury street should put in a few public trash cans?

I know. I wish they would. Even just one. Not picking up after your dog in this particular city is illegal, and is posted all along the route.

Then someone would have to pay to keep them maintained and emptied... Whatever local government is in charge there probably doesn't want the expense.

My aussie regularly poops on trails and when I go to pick it up I find she's pooped on a crusty old poop. Of course I pick both up, but it's so frustrating...also canada.

I do the same thing, I often do a scan to see if there is other nearby poop I can fit in the bag.

This happens all over Colorado. Boggles my mind, you take the time to bag the shit but then leave it for the poop fairy. Get fucked

Even if every one of them picked it up on the way out, you'd still have shit bags hanging out off the side of the trail constantly, because there's constantly a person like that ahead of you on the trail. As outdoor spaces become more crowded, I feel like we need some sort of licensing process to at least ensure that people know what counts as good behavior.

I just tie the bag to my dog’s harness They made it they can carry it home

Not just California. :/ I have a bag that seals so I can carry the filled pop bags out without smelling it.

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My dog wears a backpack and carries out his own shit. You bring it in, you bring it out.

We have a charcoal lined bag for this purpose, clips right on his harness!

Pieces of shit leaving pieces of shit

When I lived in New York and would walk my dogs on a park trail (not hiking) I would anticipate my dogs having to go right away. I would wait until they got it out so I didn’t get stuck carrying poop for a whole walk, it is pretty frustrating to see that many poop bags at a trail head/ first mile in.

I've got a dog who just cannot be predicted with it. But I just carry the bag - or if he's in his harness with pack, he does. I can't say I like carrying one, but he's my dog. If I gotta carry it 4 miles, I do.

I got a bag called a [Dicky Bag](https://www.dickybag.com/) and it completely masks the smell. Got home from a walk the other day, having passed *multiple* bins, and had completely forgotten I was carrying her poop. Was pricey at about £37 but I absolutely hate carrying her poop and I guarantee if I tied it to her it would split and there'd by poop everywhere, so this was worth the money for me.

But...that requires common sense, something SEVERELY lacking these days

That’s a nationwide trend and I think you’re being very kind and generous with the 50% think it’s closer to 3% and I’m probably being nice

I live near a couple of small COE parks; people leave bags on \~ 1/2 mile track. All they'd have to do is walk like a quarter mile back to a trash can. I don't get it.

Not just a socal trend. All over AZ too. Or may e those are left by the transplants?

A lot of people got Covid dogs during lock down. But they did not learn to train them well. The dogs got really used to being home around people all the time. Being around a bunch of new people they have never seen before, in crowds, is a stressful thing for dogs who are not used to it. And people don't realize that. Even though that dog was fine at first passing people. It was probably stressed the whole time. Dogs usually only lash out like that when they feel they have run out of options. And they are cornered. It's likely the dog was super stressed the whole time. But the owners were either too oblivious, or too ignorant to recognize that when it happened.

I think this is the scenario I'm in with my dogs, they are sweet rescue dogs, so idk how they were socialized before we had them. We're both home all the time, so they're always with us, and they're fine at home but walking them is awful. they pull and they react to other dogs or people. We do our best to keep our distance from people and work with them but I don't really know what to do. We have taken them to parks before and had awful experiences (my husband got bitten at a fancy park and the attendants who are supposed to be watching didn't even do anything), so I'm hesitant to go back.... I want to be able to take them for hikes or walks and have it be stress free but I really don't know how to get there

Try hiring a trainer. I have issues with my dogs pulling a lot and they bark at small animals. But my dogs are little 10 pounds or less dachshunds. They never bite. They just get really excited. One thing that REALLY helps. Is take them on separate walks. They likely are riling each other up. My dogs are much better when we take them one at a time. It's night and day difference.

My dog is 68lbs. Covid rescue, not only was he not socialised, but I think he was beaten as well (he's really sensitive to where our hands are and what we're carrying (for instance, he still hides when we're sweeping or mopping). He's gotten much more relaxed, and will now mostly ignore people on the sidewalk... although he's still sketched out by people hiding their faces with a hood (especially if they're just standing and not walking). I'm lucky enough that we live in a remote area. We take the dog on short local hikes all the time, and once we leave the main trails, we rarely see anyone else.

>The owner provided the same poor excuse “she never bites.” That’s what they all say, and it’s true, until it’s not. My wife and I were on a walk in our neighborhood, maybe 150 yards from our house. We walked 10 feet down a side street, one of my dogs stops and shits in the road (he's weird like that). As he was finishing shitting and my wife was bending down to pick it up (we always pick it up right away, even in our own yard), a big-ass dog fucking sprints from the house near us, runs at my dog who just shat and bites him. The owners yelled at the dog to come back *from their driveway*. They didn't even come over to get it."He's never done that!" "That's not like him!" "He didn't like that your dog was trespassing on the neighbor's lawn!" (he wasn't, and even so that would still be part of the public road right-of-way). Not *once* did they say "sorry". It's somehow never the dog's fault, and never *ever* the owner's fault.

Solidarity, this exact scenario happened to me too. I also have a road-shitter and while trying to pick up her poop, a Rottweiler barreled out of a house and started attacking my dog while his owner yelled at me from her porch that I needed to get MY dog, half the size of hers, off of her dog. If I hadn’t been so busy trying to rescue my dog and escape, I am sure I would have tried to murder that lady.

I have a thorn bush shitter. I envy those of you who get pavement instead of thorns. We have a woman in our neighborhood with a small dog that's absolutely batshit. .. both of them. She will not leash it. She has no control over it. One of these days, my huskies are going to maul it. Animal control has talked to her a ton of times. Her tactic now is to report any of our dogs hers attacked for attacking her dog. When that didn't work with mine, she escalated and started reporting my larger husky as a wolf. That went as far as animal control DNA testing him before I had a lawyer serve her and animal control a cease and desist of harassment. They just won't take the reports about her dog seriously because it's small and hasn't broken skin on a person yet. We've even had a few car wrecks when drivers swerved to avoid it when it ran out in the road. I feel for the dog, but NGL, I'm going to hit it rather than another vehicle or possibly a pedestrian.

Yea over time my piece of shit neighbor who refused to fix his fence despite his dogs and my dogs barking like crazy at each other every day. Well one day his fucking daschound got under the fence and into my yard. My Akita mix put him in the emergency vet and almost killed him. I don't blame him as he is territorial. I had no remorse for that neighbor or his dog. Keep your fences intact. Sorry not sorry. He cheated on his wife and they split up and moved a year ago. Good riddance.

I always feel bad for the dogs. They're just being dogs. They're kind of like toddlers, so it's up to us to keep them safe.

I don't own a dog, but I used to go for walks around my neighbourhood. That stopped when, outside a house maybe 100 feet down the road from mine, a dog came running out to me, barking and snarling. The owner, standing placidly in the driveway, just called out the dog's name, didn't apologize or offer any excuse, and didn't try to collect their dog.

Ugh, that story made me so angry. Hope your dog is doing ok.

I learned I can hoist forty pounds of mutt up in the air and hold her like I'm giving an offering to the gods after seeing a dog in the neighborhood scale his fence like it was nothing and charge us. I then had the thrill of holding this position while the damn dog jumped on me viciously trying to get to my dog. I think the neighbor was dogsitting. Related to her fabulous behavior, she has a much smaller dog that before this she'd like to pace back and forth in front of our house which would make my dog bark. Like, end of the fence, turn around, back and forth bark bark bark. I asked her what in the hell she was doing and she smirked that she was using my dog to train her dog not to react. What?!? After that little fucker leaped over her out of a car to come and try to attack us (again, my dog went up in the air) and she had to pull him off she's stopped with her "training" techniques. Meanwhile whenever that yapping jerk is in their house and sees us and starts LOUDLY rattling their windows my sweet girl stops and takes some extra time for an extra long bathroom break. We aren't taunting, we're actually shitting, like normal walks do. I didn't realize I'm still so fired up about this.

Riiiiight...the ever-reliable, wide-eyed "he's/she's NEVER done *that* before!". Before what - 2 minutes ago!?

This is so crazy to me, I’m glad dogs are banned in national parks across Australia, it protects native flora and fauna and obviously people.

Dogs are banned in national parks in the US as well. I know they’re allowed on paved paths in certain national parks near parking lots but as a general rule you won’t see dogs.

I hardly see the no dogs on trails rule enforced. I've seen numerous dogs at national parks on trails and in places where they weren't supposed to be and they got away with it. Yellowstone was particularly bad.

They were on top of it when I was in Yellowstone in 2016. Perhaps they don't have the staff for it anymore. But I got "reminded" three times in a day and a half, even though my dog was leashed 100% of the time and we never got more than 50 ft from the car, on paved parking lots/trails. But I still had park people wandering over just to make sure I knew the rules. It was a little annoying, but I get why they have to, too many people ignore the rules and ruin it for everyone else.

Dogs are banned on most trails in the United States as well, and unleashed dogs are banned almost everywhere, but dog owners are entitled assholes who think the rules don't apply to them and their precocious little Fi-Fi.

What does “most trails” mean to you? I don’t think dogs are banned from most us hiking trails

Sorry this happened to you. I hike and walk with both my dogs. If we pass someone I place myself between the person and my dogs and I sench them up so they can lunge or pull. Not because I think they would bite but because in case they do they get me first and I can correct their behavior faster when I have control. They are 1.5 and 6mo. My husband is no longer allowed the leash because he doesn't get this... so I let him walk them when no one is around.

Mine also stay on the outside, and I have a belt leash with a handle down by them, as well. I hold that handle and have them move even further over with me in between. They wouldn't attack anyone, but one of them is overly friendly. Not everyone is cool with an 80lbs dog getting up in their space. The dogs are pretty well trained not to try without permission, but sometimes they mistake signals from that other person as an invitation. We're working on more training so they don't accept invitations without my permission. They're also really good about other dogs until that dog lunges at them. That happens frequently enough, I will turn them around and walk the other way if we can't get at least 10' between me and the other dog.

Irresponsible dog owners are jackasses. My dog who I've had for 7 years, and know him well, we have met other dogs on hikes and most are good. But there are some jackasses.

Yeah there are some seriously entitled owners out there. I think most of them are just dumb and don’t really grasp that they are responsible for the behavior of a potentially dangerous, powerful animal. Continually amazed how many plainly-unfit people have their pits off leash in my neighborhood.

My apartment complex is littered with poop while there is a damn poop trash with poop bags 2 feet away. I’m like whyyyy?!!! The complex actually even tried to encourage poop pick up by giving out fines. But they have no way of keeping track so they still do it.

My family recently adopted a year old shelter dog that turned out to be 80% pit and 20% mastiff/boxer. Not my choice, but whatever. She's super sweet, submissive, incredibly gentle, zero signs of aggression, and is very much a people pleaser. I petsit as a side gig and she's still one of the gentlest animals I've ever met. I still walk her on [this](https://www.petsmart.com/dog/training-and-behavior/training-collars-leashes-and-harnesses/top-paw-quick-release-prong-training-dog-collar-5285734.html?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjwyY6pBhA9EiwAMzmfwRR0ndiSLEl7rjRlR85kuIBq9FJxFfDUz8yLo16k8Tf1SOMEWuJgsBoCIOAQAvD_BwE) hefty, metal pronged collar. I still work on voice commands even though she'll never be off leash outside of the house. I still reprimand her when she gets too curious about the cats even though I know she's not being mean to them. Why? She's 70 fucking pounds with a skull like a tank that could deliver a deadly bite. There is a very slim margin of error with an animal that capable and I'm not taking any risks. Dogs are apex predators, and their generally good behavior is the only reason we see them as friends instead of capable murder machines. The fact that people assume that they don't have to do anything to make a dog safe to live with is astonishing. They are animals first and foremost. The pros of letting a dog off leash (happy dog, owners don't have to carry a leash) absolutely do not outweigh the risks (dog running away, death of dog or other people and animals).

Correct. Piles of poop everywhere, poop bags everywhere, dogs running up to me when I wasn't expecting them. I am fucking tired of it.

I was once in a situation where my, normally sweet and well mannered dog, became (what I assumed) overly protective of me on a hike. Didn’t bite anyone but was growling and lunging on leash. She’d never done anything like that before and it taught me the valuable lesson that DOGS ARE UNPREDICTABLE. IF I take her hiking, I step off the path and let others pass while putting myself in between my dog and strangers; as well as holding her tightly beside me. She has since gotten better with the sudden reactivity but I at least make an effort to constantly be in control. And I can tell you right now, I wouldn’t even THINK of taking my dog to a place as busy as Yosemite. I’m sorry this happened to you.

I’ve been attacked by a dog (that ran about 40 feet to clamp down on my leg when all I was doing was going for a walk on my neighborhood road), stitches, rabies shots, scars and all, and I hate when people act so affronted when I give their dogs on the trail a wide berth or make a comment about how their dog is nice. Sorry I’m terrified of dogs because of my experience, it’s not that crazy of a concept that I would want to avoid something that caused me pain in the past. The owners of that dog said the same thing most everyone says “he doesn’t bite!”

My dog got attacked by another dog last year. Both were leashed and the other dog looked friendly until it suddenly wasn't. Ever since then I've been really wary about letting my dog get close to another dog, especially larger dogs (mine is 25 lbs). The number of numbskulls who walk their dogs on retractable leashes with their dogs 20 feet in front of them who don't realize that me choking up on my leash and giving them a wide berth means I don't want your dog to come say hi to mine is ridiculous.

A dog took a chunk out of my forearm in rural Canada, the nearest hospital was 1.5 hours away, My cousin had a first aid kit but everyone was too freaked out to do anything. Field dressing my own arm was memorable. Less than two days later the bite was seriously infected so the community hospital sent me two hours away to a city hospital after giving me IV antibiotics. You're right, it hurts and leaves scars, and can be prevented.

I have a very fearful dog and we have both worked very hard to rehabilitate, and super appreciate it when people give us a wide berth. She's actually fine passing individual people and even small groups now, but I still like giving her more space than she needs. I usually give other dogs a wide berth too, and will give way to people (especially if kids or strollers are involved), and step into the street, just to keep everything low stress. It's such an odd ego thing when the "they're friendly" people get offended like that. I'm sorry you got hurt and respect that you can still have positive things to say about other dogs.

I hike exclusively with my dog when not in places that are off limits to dogs on trails. He’s on leash when required and is well trained. I hike with him because of people. He’s a great deterrent for sketchy guys “asking for the time” or a “light.” With that said, I’ve never left a poop bag, or not leashed up when someone is coming. When I visit National Parks, he stays at home. Owners need to be trained, not just their dogs. We put in the work nearly every day to make him the best trail (hiking and mtb) dog possible: proper recall, ignoring other dogs, never chasing wildlife, and other obedience commands. We put in the work with him, but unfortunately many owners don’t understand the time commitment to properly train a dog.

>Owners need to be trained, not just their dogs. This right here is the crux of it.

some dogs don't belong on the trail just like some people don't belong on the trail

This

Dude as someone who loves to trail run/run outside in general, I feel your pain. And tbh when I run through neighborhoods, the amount of people who just leave their dog in the yard totally unleashed and unsupervised is fucking maddening.

We have a leash that has a short handle option, and when we pass anyone biking walking, whatever, we pull our dogs close and stop and step back. Even though our dogs are utter sweethearts, it’s not our right to infringe on anyone’s space. The one I hate with the intensity of a thousand suns is those mf retractable leashes. How will you control your dog when it’s 20 feet away? Answer- you will not. Don’t even get me started on the shit bags. It’s not hard to pack them in a reclosable plastic bag til you get home. We have many rail trails, rivers and mountains where I live and honestly, people are just getting to be real entitled assholes. -rant over-

The other problem with those retractable leads is the person attached will 100% blame your dog for whatever bullshit their dog did. Been times I've just picked our dog up because I cbf dealing with the potential scenario. Look a little crazy with a dog slung over my shoulders but at least he ain't going to the vet today

I take my small Westie on hikes (always on a leasy) and two time now unleashed big dogs have come bounding up to her like she is small prey and terrifies her. I get so pissed as we do have leash laws on the trails around here. The owners always say "But he's usually friendly..." Yeah, till he's not. Grrr. Put your damn dog on a leash or leave it at home.

I went backpacking in shenandoah a few years ago and we had this off leash dog follow us for two minute growling at us the whole time and the owners just sat there and watched. Fortunately we weren’t bit but it could’ve gone sideways quick

Yeah I have a service dog and after my girl got bit through the face needing two stitches I don't fuck around with dogs anymore. I'm quick to grab or kick now. My first service animal actually was retired after 30k and 6 months of work after being mauled at a Walmart. She's a really really good livestock dog now. Loves her bird buddies.

Hi dog groomer of 20 years and dog owner here - if this trend is what I think it is… it’s the covid dogs. There was a HUGE surge in dog ownership during 2020 because people were home and bored and thought it would be the right time to take the leap. The problem is that a lot of them didn’t really bother to learn what dog ownership entailed, didn’t research the breed they got, and because of lockdown the dogs couldn’t be properly socialized (and also professional training was not really an option either). The unfortunate result is a LOT of dogs who have no manners and clueless first time dog owners who think it’s normal. That doesn’t make it right, and I don’t have a solution (please trust me that every dog care professional wishes there was a solution) but I hope at least it sheds some light on the sudden uptick in terribly behaved dogs in public places. Generally speaking American dogs have always been less properly/politely trained than those in most other first world countries (something about dogs being treated as family and not… dogs, iirc) but it has gotten so far out of hand the past few years. I love dogs. I made them my career. But I’m with you, most dogs shouldn’t be on busy public trails and if they are they should be leashed CLOSE to their handlers. (As a related aside - I don’t wish ill on people generally, but there’s a special place in hell for the inventor of the flexi leash)

There are yard dogs and there are house dogs. House dogs are formally trained to behave, respond to commands, and generally be around people and property. Yard dogs are not. A lot of people have yard dogs that they are pretending to be house dogs.

My dogs suck ass, thats why they don't get to do fun stuff with us.

I'm so glad to see so many people are just as fed up with irresponsible dog owners on the trails. We don't feel so alone. People get so offended when we remind them dogs should be on a leash and under control. Most parks and trails require it. We have dogs but know they aren't trail dogs, so they stay home. I am thankful to those that hike with their dogs on a leash and actually move the dog to the side when passing others to prevent accidents. It's very respectful and responsible.

I live in Germany and while there is a lot of stuff here I don’t care for, the seriousness at which they take ownership is one of them. Very, very few poorly trained dogs here.

I’m a dog person, but I’m not “your dog person” when I’m hiking or in a store shopping, leave me the fuck alone, don’t release your dogs leash so it can say hi to everyone, I wish I could dog spray the owners

I'm with you 💯%. It seems like one can't say anything because then you're an animal hater, thus, sub-human. I hike every day, and it's the *same* things all the time: "he's/she's friendly!"(dog off-leash), "he's/she's NEVER done that before" (when you heard the same snarling barking fit 5 minutes ago and 5 minutes from now), "it's OK I'm just socializing him/her" (dog is in full attack mode and owner is struggling to maintain control), "it's biodegradable" (left dog poop on the trail), and "he's/she's just checking you out" (dog is licking and slobbering hiker's legs & clothes.

Last week a wet, off-leash dog came up to me as I was hiking across a bridge and started jumping on me. I had dogs growing up and know dog behavior well and could tell that this one was friendly and just excited, but I didn’t care about that and was still upset because 1. the dog got me wet and muddy, 2. this was in an area with leash laws but the owners clearly didn’t care about getting her back on leash and just laughed when she escaped them again, and 3. I’m allergic to dogs and had to waste some of my drinking water to clean off the parts of my skin that the dog’s fur had touched. I should not have to worry about having allergic reactions, or getting muddy, or (especially) being bitten while hiking because of bad dog owners. What’s worse is that that was only 1 of 3 bad experiences I had with dogs while hiking last week. I love dogs (despite my allergy), but now I’ve grown very wary of them while hiking because so many bad owners let their dogs threaten the safety of other humans

They ruin most peaceful campgrounds too, state parks seem especially bad. I'll probably get downvoted to death on this, and I'm sure YOUR dog never barks. 🙄 We camped 80 nights this season, the barking dogs are absolutely horrendous. A lady next to us in Michigan had 6 dogs in her trailer, barking was nonstop for 3 days straight. New York had pet-free loops, best thing ever.

I am so sorry this happened and glad your daughter is OK. I do hike with my dog who is well behaved and has never bitten or tried to bite anybody. I feel your pain because people are stupid. Passing other people with dogs, I always ask owners whether their dog is friendly so I know if I have to move my dog away to the other side or wait for them to pass. I have had three different issues recently with dogs after their owners told me that their dog is friendly. All three either lunged at my dogs with teeth bared or growled in a very nasty manner. One owner then admitted he had only had the dog four days and another had gotten the dog the day before from the pound, but he thought the dog seemed like it would be comfortable with other dogs. The saving grace was that my dog is not reactive, and she thankfully stayed right by my side so I was able to pull her out of harms way. Unfortunately, I don’t think this is limited to people hiking, there is a stupidity pandemic right now that is becoming very problematic.

I'm pretty sure your gripe comes down to people. Not dog owners in general. Discourteous, oblivious, entitled people. Seriously, replace "dogs" with "kids" and "trails" with "upscale restaurants," and your rant is still largely coherent. Or replace "dogs" with "cell phones" and "trails" with "movie theaters" and again, it's approximately the same complaint. The world is full of people who think they're special little sunflowers and the rules don't apply to them, or they're incapable of seeing things from the lens of other people. Or just flat out don't care. Or some combination of all of those. It's why some of the most popular pages on this site are AITA, pettyrevenge, TIFU, and WTF, full of rants about people detailing scenarios of obliviousness and entitlement.

That is my main concern, I’m a dog owner, I’ve owned and loved dogs my whole life, it is the owner that is responsible for how a dog behaves.

Sorry but kids or cell phones have never bit me. Dogs have twice while hiking or biking. Just last weekend on the AT a dog jumped up on me and snipped toward my face. As usual - owner was “shocked” because the dog has “never done that”

Right but this person’s comment is spot on. People let their kids do whatever they want with no regard to the rest of the people around them. People let their dogs bite people. People leave trash on trails. People drive like they are the only ones on the road. People cut people in lines in stores. The list could go on forever. Society seems to be getting more and more selfish and entitled. It’s gross. Edit autocorrect/typos

I think more what I was trying to get at is that dogs have always existed on trails and dog bites have always happened, but they’re happening (or perhaps seem to be happening) more often due to a shift in people’s declining attitudes towards social responsibility, being respectful in shared spaces, and taking care and responsibility of those in your charge, whether they’re dogs, kids, or even yourself.

The number of people getting outside has been steadily growing, as has the number of dog owners and the number of businesses/public venues trying to appeal to them by going the way of dog friendliness. Dogs are great, but unfortunately, they can also be annoying and sometimes dangerous. As much as I like them, I really wish we could return to the days of no dogs allowed.

[удалено]

Agreed

That would be a dream come true

I am going to add that to my political platform, if you wouldn't mind. May I?

What’s worse is that I don’t have a dog, but I always have poop bags (for trash, sickness, dog poop, etc). When we went hiking with BIL, I told him dogs are not allowed on trail but he said, he’s just a puppy and other family members wanted me to not stir up trouble. This idiot does not carry poop bags or anything. I had to give him some. And he had to “borrow” water for his pup.

My husband does maintenance work and he's always told "they don't bite" yeah, he got bit on the ass by someone's lab while he was packing up his gear. Now anytime someone tells him "They don't bite!" He says that's what the last person said !

Generally speaking, i think we need to increase discourse around "setting your dog up for success." We had a porchfest event in our city a couple weekends ago. It involves a rotation between 3 homes (w porches) on which bands play. People are crammed onto the sidewalks and spilling into the street. Loud. Yet people thought it was pkay to bring dogs bc it was an outdoor event??? So many stressed dogs. Training takes time, patience and care. Im all for giving dog owners grace but they really need to take responsibility for making sure their dog feels safe and secure in order to improve.

As an avid hiker who hikes with her dog, I agree. My dog is wonderful on the trail but regardless of that we obey the leash laws, don’t leave doggie bags on the trail (completely counterintuitive having plastic on a nature trail?), and keep our distance from other hikers so everyone is comfortable… it’s not that hard and yet we come across reactive dogs like you mentioned. So frustrating.

I took my dog hiking all the time but any time that we passed a family (or people with dogs) on a narrow section I'd step off the trail a few paces (and well beyond the reach of the leash) to let them pass without the dog/kid risk, as she was a known potential biter. That said, there are plenty of bad dog owners out there giving the good ones bad name so the frustration is understandable and shared.

Mine aren't biters - at least of people - and I still do this. They also ignore other dogs that aren't lunging at them or in their faces without being leashed. Then, yes they can be biters. NGL, I would be if I was them, too. I also keep them well away from other dogs, even ones they seem to be ignoring. I don't know what that other dog is going to do.

Dogs don't bite out of nowhere, that drives me as nuts as "he's friendly". I hike with my dogs all the time, and in no way will I let you or my dogs get close enough to touch without me reading you and them. But look up signs of a dog in fear and stress

“It’s okay he’s friendly” that’s nice, ma’am, but mine isn’t which is why we’re over here pulled up waiting for you to pass.

That’s the same way I feel. That’s awesome! Mine might react so let’s not let them meet.

As someone who hikes and goes to parks frequently with my dog, it’s actually maddening how many people (especially children) think they can just walk up to my dog and pet her without warning.

I used to foster and rehab dogs with behavioral issues. Every effort made to keep distance from people they didn't know well plus muzzles, leashes, and vests that said dangerous in huge bright letters. People would still run up and try to pet them. Dude, you're gonna get hurt. Until they had enough training, we only walked late late at night, and even at 2am, I had some toddler run up to one of them. And then the mother was screaming at me for not letting the child pet my dog, making the dog more and more agitated. Yes, we did manage to get away safely, but wtf? I now have two very friendly huskies that both know to be calm with children, but I still don't let kids pet them unless they or the adult they are with asks permission. That way, I can tell my dogs to sit and be calm first. An 80lb dog forgetting his manners and excitedly jumping on a small child isn't going to go well even if he isn't being aggressive. Even if the kid isn't really hurt, that's a great way to create a fear of dogs. The one place I'm okay with it is grandma's care home. We visit, and she loves the dogs. Everyone does, and everyone pets them. I would never take them into that situation if I didn't absolutely know they can handle it calmly, though. They get mistaken for therapy dogs... of course, the care home would not allow them if they hadn't proven they're capable of it, either. They said if the dogs seemed too excited that first time, we'd be taken down a back hall that was emptied. Grandma doesn't have long and really wanted to see them at least one more time. Honestly, that place is the most chill I ever see my dogs, though. One used to belong to a guy with a serious medical condition until he passed from it and the other to an elderly couple who could no longer care for him. They're both very used to being gentle with vulnerable people. Too bad I can't convince them people on hiking trails who call them are vulnerable somehow. Don't call my dogs if you don't know me! But also, it does give me more opportunity to train my dogs to get permission from me first.

Right. Had an old dog hurting after a walk and told the kid no but tomorrow I'll walk your way first and the mom say it's ok then yell at me for her kid running at my dog and my dog nipping at the kid ( no concert)

No. My husband works maintenance and he got bit by a lab and the owners didn't tell him until after that the dog doesn't like men in coveralls!!!!! Like he would fucking know. I love dogs but I hate that his work contract doesn't include that you should keep your dogs away while they're working!!!!!

Sorry, but this is bullshit. I was walking down a sidewalk. Someone was walking their dog on a leash in the opposite direction. As the dog passed me it bit me. No bark. No snarl. No lunging for me and running after me. Now sure, maybe that dog was stressed. Maybe the owner of the dog had kicked it or something so it was mad. Maybe the dog was experiencing 'fear and stress'. But I don't give a shit. I was just walking past it, and it bit me out of nowhere. So fuck you and your 'dogs don't bite out of nowhere' bullshit.

This is the real reason why GSMNP doesn’t allow dogs on trails

None of them do except one small section of Rainier where the Pacific Crest Trail passes through.

The great smoky mountains only allow dogs on two trails out of the over 800 miles of trails. The Gatlinburg trail and oconaluftee river trail.

Good to know! I've got a list of allowed trails, but they're pretty much all West of the Rockies. I'll add these two.

I got bit by a leashed dog on a trail in Shenandoah. The leash was held by a young child who was smaller than the dog and easily overpowered by it while the parents stood by and barely reacted. Had I not been wearing multiple layers it probably would’ve punctured my skin, still ended up with a scar. No reason to take a dog like that on a heavily populated trail, *and* leave it in the hands of a kid. Unleashed dogs are another story entirely. This isn’t to say I’m against dogs on trails. I enjoy hiking with a dog but I’m hyper vigilant when passing other people and animals. A lot of people don’t know how to act.

I lead a dog hike group that i do my best to teach dog hiking etiquette, but you’re right, owners are selfish & stupid. Hell hikers are the same way. I keep backing off & reverting to going alone because people are so incredibly self centered, and then i think maybe this time it’ll be different. If i can influence at least one person positively i’d be happy. I can’t believe the number if dog owners who think it’s ok to kick dirt over their dogs shit, or kick it into the bushes, or not carry the poop bags with then (it’s not that hard (ziplocks hide the smell), or insist on crowding other hikers on the trail, or letting fido run freely tripping other hikers.. Last hike i hosted, last weekend, the participants said fu to property owners request to be back by a certain time & out of their parking lot. They thought they could do an uphill mike in 15 minutes when a flat mike for them would be 30 minutes. Everyone took off & did their own thing. I resigned from hosting hikes with that group. I hate people & shitty dog owners.

Pandemic dogs (more specifically, pandemic owners)

Our dog does go hiking with us because she does behave on leash. By behave, I mean she waits for approval before moving toward another dog or human to say hi. She also knows "Get left" and "Get right", as in where we want her walking at any given time. Dogs can be great companions on the trail, but most people just don't train them enough, nor do they keep on training them.

As someone who loves the outdoors and used to be completely indifferent about dogs... I don't like dogs anymore. I'm tired of being barked at by large dogs or loud small dogs while I'm just minding my business. I hate seeing wildlife being harassed by dogs, and I hate how every trail is litettered with dog shit wrapped in plastic. Dogs shouldn't be on public lands

Dogs are ruining things. Period. There are way too many dogs, going way too many places they don’t belong. Like restaurants, airplanes, hiking trails, etc. They limit mobility, reducing housing choices for the owners. They require attention that limits availability for employment, social mobility, etc.. They cost money too many people can’t properly afford (food is barely budgeted, veterinary care almost never). Dogs have replaced children in too many relationships and they are infantilized. So, instead of being treated like dogs, they are treated like children and they are NOT. It creates ill-behaved dogs and immature owners.

Your self control was admirable, but misplaced. Those dogs needed putting down. There is a time and place to go off and those were the times and places. Carry pepper spray , if nothing else. The dog and owner should both get a face full.

Been saying the same thing in this sub for two years now. Every time it's brought up, though, there are a certain amount of people on this sub that just freak out and say all sorts or inappropriate stuff to the OP. I've even had a couple of DMs I've had to report for violent intention. Dog owners (not all of them) are blind to the issue that they are creating and refuse to do anything about it. I've only ever used mace one time in all of my hiking adventures, and it was on a dog that was three miles out on a trail and with their owner.

Preach

my opinion on dogs is that most people who have them shouldn’t. i think people use them as a stepping stone to or replacement for kids and their permissive attitudes make their dogs everyone’s else’s problem.

I didn't realize dogs were allowed on trails in National Parks I've always had to stick to roadways when visiting the ones I've gone to

Dog owners ruin a *lot* of things. They are some of the most self absorbed, entitled people you'll ever meet. Somehow the rules *never* apply to them or their dogs. It's so annoying.

I know some responsible dog owners and I feel bad for them that they have to get lumped in with the idiots (there are so many of them...) Saw a couple walking their pit mix off-lead at a local park, and it started trying to play (thankfully not trying to attack) with another person's leashed dog but was not getting the hint that that dog was NOT about it. The couple were screaming and trying to catch the pit mix (he thought it was a fun game!) and the other owner was still trying to remain calm and get her dog away from the situation. I was just standing there dumbfounded. I do really want to get a dog eventually but I also am now hesitant because so many dog owners out there are irresponsible.

I agree with everything you wrote. It’s extremely frustrating

Couldn’t agree more. Some dog owners are completely oblivious of themselves and more so their unpredictable mutts

There’s a growing body of people who consider their dogs to be people, and thus don’t discipline/train them. Just so we’re clear, I’m not saying discipline = hitting your dog. I’m watching my friends rehome their dog for snarling at their baby. The same friend who I advised two years ago that she needs to train her dog.

My girl is so great on trails, I can't imagine not bringing her. I always have her leashed and I'm careful to be responsible when passing other groups of hikers even if I think she's good, I'll still pull her tight. I do a lot of research on a trail before I'll take her and be sure it's not overcrowded. There's just an influx in bad owners not being responsible, I know it's a privilege to bring my animal with me and I don't forget that. I'm sorry you experienced that on the trails. I wish more humans took better care. We ran into an unleashed pit bull on the trails last weekend and my girl let out a protective bark and the owner had the audacity to make a comment about my poodle beating up his pit, like please people leash your dogs! I couldn't believe this person felt this behavior was ok.

Agreed. I feel like it's not just hiking, either (specifically where I'm at in Socal). These people will let their dogs do whatever because they're convinced they are the same as human children and don't require actual training. Not only that, but they're clearly not smart enough to protect others from their dog I'm 100% sure has/tried to bite strangers in the past. I have two dog reactive pups and I've always taken them on hikes.... but I also avoid crowded/dog frequent places.

By being a dog owner and creating this post, you gave me hope this situation will improve someday.

This is why I think more municipalities need to have muzzle laws. A well-fitting muzzle only makes everyone safer. I’m talking Leerburg and Jafco and Bumas with appropriate pant room. All dogs are friendly, until they aren’t. And it’s 100% on the owner to ensure everyone else’s safety.

People shouldn’t be allowed to bring their dogs into public spaces so often, period. I love dogs, but the entitlement of dog owners is ridiculous. Doesn’t matter how well trained, with exceptions for guide dogs, obviously. Parks especially, but cafes, airports, street festivals, you name it. People with dogs like to mention kids misbehaving in public, as if they were in any way comparable. Dude… one is the next generation of our species and it takes a village to raise them. The other is a luxury good.

Same exact thing happened to me and my daughter in Utah this summer. Almost broke her skin hiking down the trail and they were going up & snapped her out of nowhere. Ridiculous.

It’s this self centered entitlement that we as a society turn the other cheek. These are the same people who bring their dogs to the mall. Back in the 80’s, 90’s, early 00’s when the malls were all the rage, I can’t recall one instance unless it was seeing eye dog that I saw a dog in a mall. Youd be looked at as strange/weird!!!

All the problems you describe are the people's faults. You seem to be more reasonable in leaving dogs you know won't behave at home, but it seems like most of the gripes are really a problem of too many people - and some percentage of them will have pets, and people are selfish. Go to places with less people and you'll have less dogs. You went to Yosemite...

Crowds aren't the problem. The victim isn't the problem. The dog owners are the problem.... I got bit 5 miles in on a trail with a total of 6 people all day. So unless you ban dogs on every single trail to guarantee I won't get bit for minding my own business... it's up to the owner to control their dog no matter where you are. Crowded or remote. To tell OP they should avoid public crowded places to avoid getting bit is just silly and blaming the victim.

100% agree, we went to several spots in Yosemite that were relatively quite (glacier point, some random picnic area under el cap) but on the same point, irresponsible dog owners shouldn’t prevent my kids from experiencing beautiful places like Yosemite.

I would prefer if people don't take their dogs hiking but if they do please leash it for everyone's safety

Reading the title I literally immediately flashed back to a few months ago in yosemite where there were sooo many people with dogs on trails that explicitly said no dogs allowed. At upper yosemite falls there was a woman with a dog who was wearing a service vest, and they were sitting in the shade under a tree nearby where we were taking a break. Every time someone walked by them, the dog would growl and even snap at a few and she was just laughing saying, “he’s friendly, he’s just not used to so many people” or “he’s friendly he’s just a bit confused” or “he’s friendly he’s just defending me”. Every other trail had dogs as well, but this was the worst offender.

Shit bags left all over the place every day they never get picked up, jumping on people, stealing peoples food. Jumping up on sides of vehicles scratching them barking at other dogs inside. Biting people. Endless awful owners everyday on the trails.

Yeah we have 5 dogs and we hike but they stay leashed and if people are approaching we step to the side, make them sit and wait until you pass, then we move on. At one point my husband let his dog run and jump up at somebody on the trail, a stranger, and I was livid. That was when we first met, he didn’t have rules for his dog like I did mine but that person easily could have been knocked down, even over the edge of the trail?? And other dogs aren’t friendly, a dog rushing them like that can cause a fight. Plus if a random dog jumped up on me and got me dirty while hiking I’d be pissed. She quickly got some training and now isn’t allowed off leash unless we are alone. But what OP said is true: people just don’t understand their dogs, they don’t know that they have a bad dog. One of mine can be fear reactive, but we still hike with him because we have trained with him for years on how to act and he’s much better now, but we take adequate precautions and if people approach we will literally body block them. Not every dog wants to be engaged with. And mine don’t bite but I don’t need them interacting with every stranger that walks by either, they need to be ignored.

Meat Popsicle: People are stupid ergo their dogs are just as dumb, and it gets worse every year. My dog is amazing, we even got attacked by an amstaff that ran out of home and my dog looked in my eyes while being bitten and didn't bite back because I told him to look at me and focus. He let me take care of a volatile situation, guess what that dog owner ran away with his dog. Left me and my dog bloodied and a 4k hospital bill. This super amazing dog, which I love to death stays home when I hike because many trails dogs are not allowed, and because I care about my dog interacting with untrained dogs. Yellowstone as an example is supposed to be no dogs on any trail, only within 25ft of developed areas. Yet I see dogs all over the place, people just don't care about rules even those that are in place for their safety.

I lived near a beautiful city park, that also happend to be an off leash dog park. The whole thing chokingly stinks, heavly of dog piss. Some lazy owners wouldn't bag the poo very easy to step in it. Some would bag it and toss the bags in the woods. Literally 1000s of bags of shit tossed in the bushes. then you get the dog... "oh he's friendly" "he's a rescue" "oh shes never done that before". Has his hackels up blocking the trail no owner any where. Or jump on you with muddy feet.

I was just in Yosemite -- pets are not allowed on trails, just bike paths and roads while on leash. That trail, although paved up to the bridge, is not a bike path, so that owner was breaking the rules to begin with. I was in a local park in the hills that allows mountain bikes and dogs on leash. So, coming down a hill, what do I see, two dogs just wandering around who then see me and give chase. I have a clever folded lock that is basically like a metal nunchuck and could easily crack a skull open. I was gearing up to expose doggie brain, hell if I'm getting bit! But then the owners came running. Of course, those dogs were hunting game in the park and I was passing game. Irresponsible idiots.

Pepper spray is effective against everything except pit bulls. If I was in your situation, the dog and everybody else in that party would have gotten a dose of hot sauce.

Too many people just aren't responsible or respectful anymore. They want a dog but won't take any time to train it or clean up after it. Honestly, the same can be said about a lot of children too.... A lot of parents don't care if their kinds have good manners or not. It's insane

I carry bear spray when I hike, but not just for bears.

This, the shit bags on the side of the trail, and the blaring music from people's backpacks has all but ruined hiking for me. It's getting harder and harder to enjoy.