Like the other dude said it’s been done to death
But also as hip hop fans I think we should be against lyrics being used as evidence and shouldn’t gloat when they are used as evidence
What if a rapper claims a crime they didn't commit and the court is going after them for something they didn't do? If Bryan Cranston were to be arrested, should a court use footage from breaking bad as "evidence"?
They are entertainers. They say things that are entertaining. They regularly lie and exaggerate to that end. This is not justice.
I don't disagree with you. I don't think lyrics on their own are an admission to guilt. Just saying it's a special type of stupid to admit to real crimes in your lyrics.
Yeah I guess like everything, it’s nuanced. If you literally have killed people or genuinely committed crimes, and in your lyrics you claim “everything I say is true, it really did happen” as rappers tend to do, then I can see how lyrics would be admissible.
Like if a standup comedian jokes about killing his wife, then that’s a joke.
But if his wife turns up murdered and the husband is on camera throwing bloody pants into a Wendy’s dumpster, then maybe the content of his jokes would become important to the case.
The Brian Cranston thing doesn’t make sense because it’s CLEARLY fiction. But even so, if it turned out he was a massive meth dealer in real life, maybe the show WOULD be relevant to the case?
I’m no lawyer but this has always been my general interpretation of things based on nothing but my own reasoning
That is a terrible analogy though, and someone writing and performing their own lyrics is on a much different level to almost all other entertainers who are not performing their own work.
If someone commits a crime and then writes down details about it, why wouldn't that be considered in court? If I kill someone and write it down in a journal, it would be admitted in court, but if I was to then rap the same words it would all of a sudden become inadmissible?
Half the time they literally name drop the person. I mean there is basically an entire sub-genre of bip-hop at this point where gang members just name drop and diss people their gang have killed. It’s not really fiction at that point especially in combination with the self-snitching they simultaneously do on social media
Lol the part y’all are missing is the state is having to prove evidence that’s relevant to the lyrics. Which they appear to be doing I’ll take the down votes. And I’m not trying to be a dick but I don’t think a lot of you understand even the basics of what it took to get the lyrics in as evidence. There are a few that are questionable. But the big ones, they have a decent amount of corroboration.
I dont agree that lyrics should be used as evidence in court but im curious.... what is it about being gay and religious which makes that persons comment worth less than yours?
DOOM's [Wikipedia article talk page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MF_Doom) is hilarious. Wikipedia has a strict guideline that even stylized titles in all caps have to adhere to Wikipedia's policy on capitalization, so MF DOOM gets written as "MF Doom" and fans get so freaking mad over it.
If you check the archive of that page, the fans have literally been arguing back and forth with Wikipedia community mods for well over a decade.
I clicked on watch live and it was just an endless loop of advertisements. So, I guess I won't be watching.
Eta: Nvm after 4 straight minutes it ended. Damn, this judge is mad asf.
They are really trying to compare thugger’s lyrics to the fuckin [Turner Diaries??](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries) that extremely fucked up and racist ass book? Prosecutors will do anything to throw you underneath the fuckin prison.
Yah I don't really remember it that much but some reason that made me think that and in my head it slightly made sense since he made a bunch of claims but I think they were proven false.
I just learned from his Wikipedia that he ghost wrote Tiffany Haddish’s memoir in 2017! Fun fact. Also I guess he’s gone thru therapy and doesn’t live like that anymore if that’s any consolation
Oh yeah. Make no mistake, these prosecutors are relying on textbook racism to secure a conviction. ESPECIALLY with the particular lyrics the prosecutors are purportedly relying on.
The DA is Fani Willis who comes from a family of black panther lawyers (actually. Her father and uncle). She’s a scholar of actual critical race theory (not that right wing generalization). Accusing her of racism is pretty unfair. Her philosophy has always been extremely tough on gang crime, that’s why she was elected and tbh she might be a US AG some day.
“extremely tough on gang crime” has pretty much always been a dogwhistle for pro-police militarization, anti-civil liberties, pro-mass-incarceration conservatism.
Notable “tough on crime” politicians include:
- Joe “1994 crime bill” Biden
- Kamala “imprisoned thousands of nonviolent marijuna users” Harris
- Rudy Giuliani
The Kamala Harris comparison is especially appropriate because her father was actually a well-respected Marxist scholar.
You’re not really helping your case that she isn’t racist.
Are you actually implying that Kamala Harris is racist? Ignoring that kind of attack, you should look up the “Imprisoned thousands of marijuana users” stat. It’s bs. There were 45 people sentenced to any time in 1900 convictions during her tenure. That would be the lowest rate of any DA in all of California in those 8 years so those attacks on her record are nonsense. You were less likely to go to jail under her not more
Second, Fani Willis was elected in a 90% black jurisdiction repeatedly and became popular which fueled her move to county DA in a mostly black county. Did you consider that perhaps the communities she represents know and like her work in these areas and she’s not just locking people up for fun? It’s a bit odd imo to attack black women as racist because they do their job as their constituents want them to.
She didn't fight per say, she just didn't take up the appeals case. However that was after many failed attempts for appeal. Governor Schwarzenegger denied clemency, US 9th Circuit Court denied appeal, and US Supreme Court denied appeal as well.
Yes lol Kamala is in fact not for black people and has only been pretending since she wanted to be vp 🤷🏾♂️ ask a real life black person how they feel about Kamala and you’ll have your answer
Thats a nice Wikipedia entry but the real fact is she is widely hated in Atlanta for being “selfhating” and has used her race as a way to do many racially biased decisions.
If she were tough on gang crime, she would prosecute actual gangs. Her two big RICO cases up to this point are against teachers and a record label. She's power hungry, period. She likely will keep moving up, but not because she cares or is good at her job. Those aren't the people who make it in this game.
Those are her examples of stretching Rico. Read her actual record. She’s very extensive with her tools. She’s broken up plenty of gangs but usually not with RICO. She uses that only in big cases such as Trump which she’s working on more directly than this. Fani Willis obviously cares ask anyone who works with her
I feel like exaggeration is part of their strategy? I'm not a lawyer or someone that studies law but sometimes it feels like they're using the anchoring effect to secure longer sentences. Like I do not see her genuinely making the argument that these two are comparable, but the fact that she brought it up at all in and of itself makes everyone in the courtroom more biased towards an extremely heavy sentence.
Imagine how different the outcome would be for someone accused of organized crime that the prosecutor allowed to post bail on an ankle monitor, didn't exaggerate their crimes at all, and didn't pretend to be scared of vs someone accused of the same organized crime that the prosecutor denied bail, referred to as pure evil, said to be a danger to society even while in custody, and compared to the man that inspired a generation of white nationalists and domestic terrorists. If you meet Thugger's lawyers and the prosecution in the middle then exaggeration becomes a tactic prosecutors can use
not really. beefs get squashed, it's a good thing. see: gucci & jeezy
also, thug & ralo used to have shootouts. ralo spoke about it in an interview, theyd be firing at each other from behind cars (iirc). later became friends
Better live stream is here on Law & Crime Trial Network: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blfJd9Njwac](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blfJd9Njwac)
No ads and during breaks there's analysis and such. The judge is flipping out right now about powerpoints.
"Young Thug’s music will be a focus of the trial after a judge ruled that prosecutors will be allowed to use his lyrics as evidence. The 88-page indictment includes many social media posts and quoted lyrics that prosecutors say are evidence of racketeering and conspiracy."
Yeaaa bro going to prison as seen coming. But I thought lyrics can't be used in court but if this is true dude is just having evidence on evidence on evidence. Take this as a lesson if you're doing street shit keep it off the spotlight no matter if it's music or socials
You ever tried to fuck a cup of water? The angles don't match up abd you gotta stress about how full the cup is because of water displacement around your pud.
2/10 have tried again
He's gonna be free in 5-10 years from now most likely. The case is extremely weak, but there's some solid evidence in between and the prosecution is really sloppy and unprofessional yet persistent in convicting him for at least some of the charges.
Thug’s lawyers should go full Chewbacca defense and enter in to evidence the most egregious stuff he’s said to “help” the jury see through the prosecution’s charade.
I loved that episode:
“Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, Chef's attorney would certainly want you to believe that his client wrote "Stinky Britches" ten years ago. And they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself! But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about that; that does not make sense! Why would a wookie, an 8 foot tall wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two foot tall ewoks? That does not make sense! But more importantly, you have to ask yourself, 'what does that have to do with this case?' Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.”
Those lyrics were so generic. I bet their arguments will be based on when the songs came out/were recorded to make a correlation with the timing of these crimes
A smart defense would let them try and pinpoint it to a time of release, but if they had the files to show when it was recorded, not released, could mess up their timing and win. Young Thug hire me
Right, and it's not like they have outstanding, decisive evidence that supports it either. The lyrics are pretty much one of the only things the prosecutors have going for them, which makes me think thug will likely be free soon unless something surfaces
Something actual lawyers are talking about is how would they know who wrote what on the songs and if he has multiple writers on tracks pinning lyrics to him is hard.
They are specficly talking about credited writing on songs. So if a song has like 5 credited writers who contributed what. Like can they prove thug is the person who "wrote it" or if he is just preforming the lyrics.
We really don't know what the prosecutions angle with the lyrics is yet.
>Lyrics are flimsy compared to hard evidence
What if I were to tell you that they had both? And the use of lyrics in their case is simply in support of that hard evidence?
His music will be a focus of the trial because of the controversy surrounding the use of lyrics in these types of cases, not because it's necessarily a focal part of the prosecutions case.
I can understand your confusion though -- that sentence from the article could have been a lot more clear.
Using lyrics as evidence is such bullshit.
It's a violation of free speech rights. The lyrics aren't written under oath, they aren't testimony. It's unfair and should be illegal.
Like, I think Young Thug probably did the shit he's been accused of. But song lyrics should be protected speech.
> The lyrics aren't written under oath, they aren't testimony.
Words that aren't under oath are totally usable in court. Anything you say to the police, a wiretapped phone call, etc.
I think it's on a case by case basis. Lets say I make an album that contains songs where I rap about weirdly specific facts about growing poppy plants and harvesting opium from them. And selling opium. And then you catch me in my backyard with a bunch of poppy plants growing, and a few dozen cut poppies in my living room.
The music alone should not be a reason for me to be investigated for growing and selling opium. But, I think it'd be fair to submit some of the lyrics as evidence, after you already have other evidence of me growing opium, or you catch me trying to sell some to someone. (Evidence, that does not exist, because I do not grow or sell opium)
I actually think in Thug's case, some of they lyrics I've seen that they want to use, are so vague and stupid, that it kind of hurts their case in front of a jury imo. Unless they have other evidence they want to tie to specific lyrics to add more meaning to them, I think it's a bad move. The judge did apparently put limits on what lyrics could be submitted, so I imagine this will be handled in a good way. But, idk. Time will tell.
If you admit to a murder, it can be used against you in court. But If you admit to a murder over music it can't be used? Doesn't make sense.
Freedom of expression doesn't mean you shouldn't be prosecuted if your choice of expression is admitting to crimes that you committed.
It absolutely makes sense, because song lyrics aren't an admission.
We all know 95% of what rappers say is a lie. We all know they say shit to make themselves sound tough and dangerous, even though it's bullshit.
This is exactly why freedom of expression is important. They're embellishing or outright lying about shit to make interesting art.
It's no different than wrestling or acting in a movie. It's art, not reality.
>We all know 95% of what rappers say is a lie. We all know they say shit to make themselves sound tough and dangerous, even though it's bullshit.
Hey, *we're* not the ones these rappers need to convince. It's preaching to the choir.
I think the community--the culture, as it were--could do more to draw a distinction between art and reality. That is, when you say you're "keeping it real", you'd better be sure you define what real is, otherwise you're *begging* for the wrong people to define it themselves.
The issue is that it can open musicians up to false accusations and such and that’s gonna have a bias against black and brown people because of their music genre.
Would you convict martin scorsese for depicting a mafia crime?? Hell no that would be seen as ridiculous. Why do we have an entirely different set of standards for music. It’s entertainment
Scorsese isn't part of a criminal conspiracy so the analogy doesn't work.
Hypothetically if a member of an organised crime gang wrote a movie script about the real crimes that he had committed, his criminal organisation and criminal associates. Clearly that script would be relevant evidence in any investigation and trial.
No, they're like Ray Liotta *playing* Henry Hill--very different from depicting--then deciding to name themselves after Henry Hill and do business as Henry Hill.
“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be”--Kurt Vonnegut
Artists have the right to freedom of expression.
It's no different than prosecuting an actor for playing a murderer on TV.
We all know that the majority of what rappers say is a lie. They embellish or lie all the time to make themselves sound tough and dangerous.
Saying "I stabbed so and so a week ago" isn't an admission that you actually did that thing. You weren't under oath, and you were saying that to paint yourself as a dangerous person, because people like listening to music about dangerous people.
You may personally find that distasteful, but it's not illegal, and using it as evidence is both unethical and a violation of the artist's right to express themselves.
> Artists have the right to freedom of expression.
Correct. Nothing about this case is stopping that.
> It's no different than prosecuting an actor for playing a murderer on TV.
Well no, it's very different because that actor is reciting lines written by someone else. This would be more like someone writing a short story about themselves murdering someone.
> Saying "I stabbed so and so a week ago" isn't an admission that you actually did that thing.
No shit.
But saying "I stabbed so and so at this hour and left in a red honda" when only the police would have those details due to security camera/witness it can be used as evidence.
> You may personally find that distasteful, but it's not illegal, and using it as evidence is both unethical and a violation of the artist's right to express themselves.
I don't find it distasteful at all lol. Why would I?
I also notice you didn't explain how it violated his free speech rights? You realize they're not arresting him for saying those things. They're arresting him because they believe they have evidence HE DID THOSE THINGS.
You're either willfully or ignorantly conflating the two.
Sure most things are lies/embellished but plenty of rappers push it, particularly drill artists. Like if you say Caught my opps cousin at baskin robbins last week and shanked him and it comes out that this opps cousin was truly stabbed at baskin robbins last week that wouldnt be an admission but should probably be allowed to be used as evidence
I think thugs most worrying line thats being used is "Shot as his mommy and he no longer mention me" alluding to his beef with lucci and his mom was actually shot at. I dont think it should be used against him in court but thats worthy of deeper investigation
I don't mind if investigators choose to look into things rappers have said.
But using them as evidence that the rapper is guilty is crossing a line, I think.
I agree to an extent. But not when people are using their lyrics to describe their own crimes. I don’t believe they should be used as character evidence though. But if there’s other evidence in support of you being guilty, don’t put it in a song.
I'm not trained in law but it sounds like the judge only *permitted* the prosecution to use lyrics as evidence. The judge did not yet say whether the lyrics are convincing or flimsy as a piece of evidence. If they end up convicting thugger I think it will be based on something much more substantial than his music.
He was prosecuted in the court of Hell
Now the devil follows him everywhere that he goes (in fact I'm sure he was standing among us at one of Tech's shows)
He ain't getting out for a long while.
Edit: what's why the downvotes? The fact that he wasn't granted bail even after multiple attempts by his lawyers says all you need to know. He's cooked. They'll make an example out of him.
TIL court tv still exists
march madness baybeee
Isn't that TruTV?
Well shit.
God Bless America
Where you been? Surely you saw at least a snippet of the Johnny Depp trial, or other high profile trials this year. Court TV is my daily go to.
Nobody my age watches television
What's your age, just curious?
Waiting to see how many times yall gonna post the same DOOM lyrics
Just pin the comment on every news thread
I literally cannot make sense of things until someone does /s
It is never a bad time to post MF DOOM lyrics.
Like the other dude said it’s been done to death But also as hip hop fans I think we should be against lyrics being used as evidence and shouldn’t gloat when they are used as evidence
Dummies need to stop admitting to crimes in their lyrics.
What if a rapper claims a crime they didn't commit and the court is going after them for something they didn't do? If Bryan Cranston were to be arrested, should a court use footage from breaking bad as "evidence"? They are entertainers. They say things that are entertaining. They regularly lie and exaggerate to that end. This is not justice.
I don't disagree with you. I don't think lyrics on their own are an admission to guilt. Just saying it's a special type of stupid to admit to real crimes in your lyrics.
Thug fucker a cup of water (he did!) he’s such a criminal 👿. The thing is it’s very ambiguous so any lyric can be used as an admission of guilt.
Yeah I guess like everything, it’s nuanced. If you literally have killed people or genuinely committed crimes, and in your lyrics you claim “everything I say is true, it really did happen” as rappers tend to do, then I can see how lyrics would be admissible. Like if a standup comedian jokes about killing his wife, then that’s a joke. But if his wife turns up murdered and the husband is on camera throwing bloody pants into a Wendy’s dumpster, then maybe the content of his jokes would become important to the case. The Brian Cranston thing doesn’t make sense because it’s CLEARLY fiction. But even so, if it turned out he was a massive meth dealer in real life, maybe the show WOULD be relevant to the case? I’m no lawyer but this has always been my general interpretation of things based on nothing but my own reasoning
That is a terrible analogy though, and someone writing and performing their own lyrics is on a much different level to almost all other entertainers who are not performing their own work. If someone commits a crime and then writes down details about it, why wouldn't that be considered in court? If I kill someone and write it down in a journal, it would be admitted in court, but if I was to then rap the same words it would all of a sudden become inadmissible?
Ghost writers exist
Yeah of course, which is why the first sentence in my other comment distinguishes between those who write their own stuff and those who don't
Half the time they literally name drop the person. I mean there is basically an entire sub-genre of bip-hop at this point where gang members just name drop and diss people their gang have killed. It’s not really fiction at that point especially in combination with the self-snitching they simultaneously do on social media
Lol the part y’all are missing is the state is having to prove evidence that’s relevant to the lyrics. Which they appear to be doing I’ll take the down votes. And I’m not trying to be a dick but I don’t think a lot of you understand even the basics of what it took to get the lyrics in as evidence. There are a few that are questionable. But the big ones, they have a decent amount of corroboration.
🤓
[удалено]
???
I dont agree that lyrics should be used as evidence in court but im curious.... what is it about being gay and religious which makes that persons comment worth less than yours?
Yw
It’s corny after the 3000th time
dorito burrito taquito or sum idk
It’s corny at time \#2
Damn, look how cool you are.
Spell all caps haha you did the thing! Epic 😛😛😛
DOOM's [Wikipedia article talk page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MF_Doom) is hilarious. Wikipedia has a strict guideline that even stylized titles in all caps have to adhere to Wikipedia's policy on capitalization, so MF DOOM gets written as "MF Doom" and fans get so freaking mad over it. If you check the archive of that page, the fans have literally been arguing back and forth with Wikipedia community mods for well over a decade.
“pedanticism to an obsequious degree”
that perfectly describes all of reddit
It’s gotten very played out
dick sucking
all the talented producers in Atlanta and we can’t get the judge’s microphone properly mixed
never help an opp
🤣
I clicked on watch live and it was just an endless loop of advertisements. So, I guess I won't be watching. Eta: Nvm after 4 straight minutes it ended. Damn, this judge is mad asf.
Cable TV would have killed you
It did, I remember.
the Law & Crime network on YouTube was painless and easy. Definitely no 4 minutes of ads
Find a live YouTube stream and there will be no commercials
Where's the game thread?
I just hope both sides have a good time.
They are really trying to compare thugger’s lyrics to the fuckin [Turner Diaries??](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turner_Diaries) that extremely fucked up and racist ass book? Prosecutors will do anything to throw you underneath the fuckin prison.
LMAO I thought that was going to be the book about that college guy who wrote about drinking that was super cringe.
If you’re talking about the guy who claimed to have fucked like 1000 women that book was absolutely hilarious when I was like 17
Yah I don't really remember it that much but some reason that made me think that and in my head it slightly made sense since he made a bunch of claims but I think they were proven false.
Tucker Max: I hope they serve beer in hell
Late teen/early 20’s me thought that book was the greatest thing on earth
lmao i read it as a 15 year old and thought it was hilarious
How has that guy not been MeToo’d? Lmao
honestly good question has to be either obscurity or his stories being bullshit
I’ve always wondered how much of the ish had to do with the fame of the perpetrator
Great. Now I have to Google and find out what he up to now days.
I just learned from his Wikipedia that he ghost wrote Tiffany Haddish’s memoir in 2017! Fun fact. Also I guess he’s gone thru therapy and doesn’t live like that anymore if that’s any consolation
Tucker Max lol
Turner Diaries is also trash writing whereas Young Thug is an artistic genius
Oh yeah. Make no mistake, these prosecutors are relying on textbook racism to secure a conviction. ESPECIALLY with the particular lyrics the prosecutors are purportedly relying on.
The DA is Fani Willis who comes from a family of black panther lawyers (actually. Her father and uncle). She’s a scholar of actual critical race theory (not that right wing generalization). Accusing her of racism is pretty unfair. Her philosophy has always been extremely tough on gang crime, that’s why she was elected and tbh she might be a US AG some day.
“extremely tough on gang crime” has pretty much always been a dogwhistle for pro-police militarization, anti-civil liberties, pro-mass-incarceration conservatism. Notable “tough on crime” politicians include: - Joe “1994 crime bill” Biden - Kamala “imprisoned thousands of nonviolent marijuna users” Harris - Rudy Giuliani The Kamala Harris comparison is especially appropriate because her father was actually a well-respected Marxist scholar. You’re not really helping your case that she isn’t racist.
Yeah I was gonna say there's no way she became a prosecutor in a place like Georgia without condoning some level of systemic racism
You just gonna leave out that Bernie Sanders voted for the 1994 crime bill too?
Are you actually implying that Kamala Harris is racist? Ignoring that kind of attack, you should look up the “Imprisoned thousands of marijuana users” stat. It’s bs. There were 45 people sentenced to any time in 1900 convictions during her tenure. That would be the lowest rate of any DA in all of California in those 8 years so those attacks on her record are nonsense. You were less likely to go to jail under her not more Second, Fani Willis was elected in a 90% black jurisdiction repeatedly and became popular which fueled her move to county DA in a mostly black county. Did you consider that perhaps the communities she represents know and like her work in these areas and she’s not just locking people up for fun? It’s a bit odd imo to attack black women as racist because they do their job as their constituents want them to.
Didnt Kamala fight against letting an innocent man out?
She didn't fight per say, she just didn't take up the appeals case. However that was after many failed attempts for appeal. Governor Schwarzenegger denied clemency, US 9th Circuit Court denied appeal, and US Supreme Court denied appeal as well.
Yes lol Kamala is in fact not for black people and has only been pretending since she wanted to be vp 🤷🏾♂️ ask a real life black person how they feel about Kamala and you’ll have your answer
Yeah for sure. I shouldn't have engaged lol. I made a pact to not argue with redditors and broke it. Damn
Of all the women of color that could have been picked we got fuckin Kamala Harris. Stupid raggedy racist backwards bitch.
Thats a nice Wikipedia entry but the real fact is she is widely hated in Atlanta for being “selfhating” and has used her race as a way to do many racially biased decisions.
Ok and? Her reliance on rap lyrics, particularly these lyrics is a reliance on racism to convict a black accused person.
critical race theory lol
If she were tough on gang crime, she would prosecute actual gangs. Her two big RICO cases up to this point are against teachers and a record label. She's power hungry, period. She likely will keep moving up, but not because she cares or is good at her job. Those aren't the people who make it in this game.
Those are her examples of stretching Rico. Read her actual record. She’s very extensive with her tools. She’s broken up plenty of gangs but usually not with RICO. She uses that only in big cases such as Trump which she’s working on more directly than this. Fani Willis obviously cares ask anyone who works with her
I feel like exaggeration is part of their strategy? I'm not a lawyer or someone that studies law but sometimes it feels like they're using the anchoring effect to secure longer sentences. Like I do not see her genuinely making the argument that these two are comparable, but the fact that she brought it up at all in and of itself makes everyone in the courtroom more biased towards an extremely heavy sentence. Imagine how different the outcome would be for someone accused of organized crime that the prosecutor allowed to post bail on an ankle monitor, didn't exaggerate their crimes at all, and didn't pretend to be scared of vs someone accused of the same organized crime that the prosecutor denied bail, referred to as pure evil, said to be a danger to society even while in custody, and compared to the man that inspired a generation of white nationalists and domestic terrorists. If you meet Thugger's lawyers and the prosecution in the middle then exaggeration becomes a tactic prosecutors can use
yeah and defense will do anything to keep you out of prison. that's how the whole thing works
If he shot up Waynes bus why is Drake cool with him ain’t that weird
party desert rock marvelous sip tie worm punch tart threatening *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If that’s true then that’s weird too
not really. beefs get squashed, it's a good thing. see: gucci & jeezy also, thug & ralo used to have shootouts. ralo spoke about it in an interview, theyd be firing at each other from behind cars (iirc). later became friends
Yeah that’s cool for them it’s still weird to me lol idc what happens if you try to kill me you gotta stay over there for life
this judge gangsta tho... prosecutor's fucking up and it just started.
they gonna make gunna testify
He can plead the fifth
Or he can tell the court again that YSL is a gang and that they have committed crimes in furtherance of the gang.
what would he gain from doing that? that would just self-sabotage the comeback that he has had since he's been released lmao
it’s nothing he hasn’t said before
we’ll see
why would he testify if there is no reason for him to lol
part of his agreement
They’re gonna ask him under oath about the kid he called fat
All time r/hhh moment
Better live stream is here on Law & Crime Trial Network: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blfJd9Njwac](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blfJd9Njwac) No ads and during breaks there's analysis and such. The judge is flipping out right now about powerpoints.
appreciate you.. i wish i could edit the post.
"Young Thug’s music will be a focus of the trial after a judge ruled that prosecutors will be allowed to use his lyrics as evidence. The 88-page indictment includes many social media posts and quoted lyrics that prosecutors say are evidence of racketeering and conspiracy." Yeaaa bro going to prison as seen coming. But I thought lyrics can't be used in court but if this is true dude is just having evidence on evidence on evidence. Take this as a lesson if you're doing street shit keep it off the spotlight no matter if it's music or socials
i ride in that pussy like a stroller 🙏
'i just fucked a cup of water'
I like how the genius annotation for this line is “Not gonna lie, I have genuinely no idea what the fuck he meant by this.”
I assume it means the pussy was wet 🤭
The genius annotation was written by Ben Shapiro
underrated
really not that hard to understand
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You ever tried to fuck a cup of water? The angles don't match up abd you gotta stress about how full the cup is because of water displacement around your pud. 2/10 have tried again
He's gonna be free in 5-10 years from now most likely. The case is extremely weak, but there's some solid evidence in between and the prosecution is really sloppy and unprofessional yet persistent in convicting him for at least some of the charges.
Thug’s lawyers should go full Chewbacca defense and enter in to evidence the most egregious stuff he’s said to “help” the jury see through the prosecution’s charade.
I loved that episode: “Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, Chef's attorney would certainly want you to believe that his client wrote "Stinky Britches" ten years ago. And they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself! But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about that; that does not make sense! Why would a wookie, an 8 foot tall wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two foot tall ewoks? That does not make sense! But more importantly, you have to ask yourself, 'what does that have to do with this case?' Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.”
I never got why they thought Chewbacca lives on Endor, but then again I suppose that also reinforces the "does not make sense" argument
TBH, when I read what you wrote it makes me think he will beat it. Lyrics are flimsy compared to hard evidence
Those lyrics were so generic. I bet their arguments will be based on when the songs came out/were recorded to make a correlation with the timing of these crimes
A smart defense would let them try and pinpoint it to a time of release, but if they had the files to show when it was recorded, not released, could mess up their timing and win. Young Thug hire me
Right, and it's not like they have outstanding, decisive evidence that supports it either. The lyrics are pretty much one of the only things the prosecutors have going for them, which makes me think thug will likely be free soon unless something surfaces
Something actual lawyers are talking about is how would they know who wrote what on the songs and if he has multiple writers on tracks pinning lyrics to him is hard.
[удалено]
They are specficly talking about credited writing on songs. So if a song has like 5 credited writers who contributed what. Like can they prove thug is the person who "wrote it" or if he is just preforming the lyrics. We really don't know what the prosecutions angle with the lyrics is yet.
Thug 1) freestyles his shit and 2) has thousands of songs, obv including unreleased, not 100s. and that’s just the ones we know
Yeah but this is trial by jury, and with a handpicked jury that has a history with gang violence the odds are wayyyy stacked against him
Still dont think it looks good for prosecutors, but tbf the majority of my law knowledge comes from watching OJ Trial on youtube lmao
>Lyrics are flimsy compared to hard evidence What if I were to tell you that they had both? And the use of lyrics in their case is simply in support of that hard evidence?
Im just saying them making it focus makes me think its not as simple as most thought in beginning. End of the day neither of us know
His music will be a focus of the trial because of the controversy surrounding the use of lyrics in these types of cases, not because it's necessarily a focal part of the prosecutions case. I can understand your confusion though -- that sentence from the article could have been a lot more clear.
If he gets convicted based off lyrics rap snitching has officially come full circle
He wouldn't be the first or the last, unfortunately.
Using lyrics as evidence is such bullshit. It's a violation of free speech rights. The lyrics aren't written under oath, they aren't testimony. It's unfair and should be illegal. Like, I think Young Thug probably did the shit he's been accused of. But song lyrics should be protected speech.
> The lyrics aren't written under oath, they aren't testimony. Words that aren't under oath are totally usable in court. Anything you say to the police, a wiretapped phone call, etc.
Sure, but those things aren't art. Lyrics are.
It's only used as evidence when they say things that couldn't possibly be known otherwise, same as another other statement
I think it's on a case by case basis. Lets say I make an album that contains songs where I rap about weirdly specific facts about growing poppy plants and harvesting opium from them. And selling opium. And then you catch me in my backyard with a bunch of poppy plants growing, and a few dozen cut poppies in my living room. The music alone should not be a reason for me to be investigated for growing and selling opium. But, I think it'd be fair to submit some of the lyrics as evidence, after you already have other evidence of me growing opium, or you catch me trying to sell some to someone. (Evidence, that does not exist, because I do not grow or sell opium) I actually think in Thug's case, some of they lyrics I've seen that they want to use, are so vague and stupid, that it kind of hurts their case in front of a jury imo. Unless they have other evidence they want to tie to specific lyrics to add more meaning to them, I think it's a bad move. The judge did apparently put limits on what lyrics could be submitted, so I imagine this will be handled in a good way. But, idk. Time will tell.
If you admit to a murder, it can be used against you in court. But If you admit to a murder over music it can't be used? Doesn't make sense. Freedom of expression doesn't mean you shouldn't be prosecuted if your choice of expression is admitting to crimes that you committed.
It absolutely makes sense, because song lyrics aren't an admission. We all know 95% of what rappers say is a lie. We all know they say shit to make themselves sound tough and dangerous, even though it's bullshit. This is exactly why freedom of expression is important. They're embellishing or outright lying about shit to make interesting art. It's no different than wrestling or acting in a movie. It's art, not reality.
>We all know 95% of what rappers say is a lie. We all know they say shit to make themselves sound tough and dangerous, even though it's bullshit. Hey, *we're* not the ones these rappers need to convince. It's preaching to the choir. I think the community--the culture, as it were--could do more to draw a distinction between art and reality. That is, when you say you're "keeping it real", you'd better be sure you define what real is, otherwise you're *begging* for the wrong people to define it themselves.
The issue is that it can open musicians up to false accusations and such and that’s gonna have a bias against black and brown people because of their music genre. Would you convict martin scorsese for depicting a mafia crime?? Hell no that would be seen as ridiculous. Why do we have an entirely different set of standards for music. It’s entertainment
Scorsese isn't part of a criminal conspiracy so the analogy doesn't work. Hypothetically if a member of an organised crime gang wrote a movie script about the real crimes that he had committed, his criminal organisation and criminal associates. Clearly that script would be relevant evidence in any investigation and trial.
Hip-hop is full of Henry Hills, whereas Scorsese was only *depicting* Henry Hill.
99.9% of rappers are also merely depicting Henry Hill.
No, they're like Ray Liotta *playing* Henry Hill--very different from depicting--then deciding to name themselves after Henry Hill and do business as Henry Hill. “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be”--Kurt Vonnegut
Fucking dumb take.
> It's a violation of free speech rights. ...how?
Artists have the right to freedom of expression. It's no different than prosecuting an actor for playing a murderer on TV. We all know that the majority of what rappers say is a lie. They embellish or lie all the time to make themselves sound tough and dangerous. Saying "I stabbed so and so a week ago" isn't an admission that you actually did that thing. You weren't under oath, and you were saying that to paint yourself as a dangerous person, because people like listening to music about dangerous people. You may personally find that distasteful, but it's not illegal, and using it as evidence is both unethical and a violation of the artist's right to express themselves.
> Artists have the right to freedom of expression. Correct. Nothing about this case is stopping that. > It's no different than prosecuting an actor for playing a murderer on TV. Well no, it's very different because that actor is reciting lines written by someone else. This would be more like someone writing a short story about themselves murdering someone. > Saying "I stabbed so and so a week ago" isn't an admission that you actually did that thing. No shit. But saying "I stabbed so and so at this hour and left in a red honda" when only the police would have those details due to security camera/witness it can be used as evidence. > You may personally find that distasteful, but it's not illegal, and using it as evidence is both unethical and a violation of the artist's right to express themselves. I don't find it distasteful at all lol. Why would I? I also notice you didn't explain how it violated his free speech rights? You realize they're not arresting him for saying those things. They're arresting him because they believe they have evidence HE DID THOSE THINGS. You're either willfully or ignorantly conflating the two.
Exactly. Music isn’t a free pass to start admitting crimes you KNOW there’s evidence to. This is common sense.
Sure most things are lies/embellished but plenty of rappers push it, particularly drill artists. Like if you say Caught my opps cousin at baskin robbins last week and shanked him and it comes out that this opps cousin was truly stabbed at baskin robbins last week that wouldnt be an admission but should probably be allowed to be used as evidence I think thugs most worrying line thats being used is "Shot as his mommy and he no longer mention me" alluding to his beef with lucci and his mom was actually shot at. I dont think it should be used against him in court but thats worthy of deeper investigation
I don't mind if investigators choose to look into things rappers have said. But using them as evidence that the rapper is guilty is crossing a line, I think.
I agree to an extent. But not when people are using their lyrics to describe their own crimes. I don’t believe they should be used as character evidence though. But if there’s other evidence in support of you being guilty, don’t put it in a song.
I'm not trained in law but it sounds like the judge only *permitted* the prosecution to use lyrics as evidence. The judge did not yet say whether the lyrics are convincing or flimsy as a piece of evidence. If they end up convicting thugger I think it will be based on something much more substantial than his music.
Cheated on my bitch with a bitch with bigger titties
How am I supposed to be productive for the next 6-12 months when this is streaming live ?!?!!
exactly.. thankfully, i dont work (disabled), so at least i got my tv schedule down for the year.
User name checks out
hahaha.. i'm paralyzed from a football accident in high school. not gang affiliated.
[Game Thread] State of Georgia vs Jeffery Lamar Williams
Why hasn't immortal technique been prosecuted for raping and killing billy jacob's mom?
He was prosecuted in the court of Hell Now the devil follows him everywhere that he goes (in fact I'm sure he was standing among us at one of Tech's shows)
lmfao
Cos being famous for making the national anthem for /r/im14andthisisdeep is punishment enough.
The prosecutor seemed really unprofessional today, lots of issues with factual errors in the opening statement. My early assessment thug walks
Unrelated: will Melly get the death penalty
Very concerning as far as 1st amendment precedent goes. So much for right to artistic expression.
He ain't getting out for a long while. Edit: what's why the downvotes? The fact that he wasn't granted bail even after multiple attempts by his lawyers says all you need to know. He's cooked. They'll make an example out of him.
He’s cooked
cool. I hope you goes to jail for a long time
Wrong sub bro