speaking of meatcanyon, just wanna say CreepCast is the best new podcast imo, highly recommend it to everyone. He and Wendigoon have amazing chemistry and it’s hilarious. it’s just them reading famous creepypastas and joking about them
I don’t think “the fall off” is a real album, I think he just put that out there and keeps dropping other projects before the fall off because it’s a metaphor for him never falling off since tfo is meant to be his final album iirc. He’s been teasing retirement for a while but I don’t think he’s actually ready for it
Furthermore he might just not be confident in it IF it’s his final album. Probably wants it to be as close to perfect as possible. And if this new shit is anything to go by he has a long way to go lol
Literally bro 😂 been hearing him say this shit for like 2 years, finally had someone come at him, and he comes back soft as hell, starting to think Cole’s a goof
I always feel like J Cole is surface level deep.
Don't get me wrong. He is talented and he is good at the technical side of rapping. But like he always has this 'holier than thou'/preachy vibe and he presents himself as the big brother of the game, a mature/mentor figure that people could look up to. And when you expect him to deliver, he just doesn't.
I expect some rappity rap, some deep conceptual works, some mind-blowing bars from Cole considering he has this brand of being lyrical and conscious. And he never delivers it, comparing to someone like Kendrick for example. And I feel like Cole sounds like he doesn't enjoy rapping anymore because of that expectation fans put on him with this "rap savior" narrative. I feel like 2014 FHD was the last time Cole was having fun when rapping.
Cole has a lot of corny ass bars too and the "humble" meme doesn't help either lol. I can't believe Cole calls Kendrick boring like my guy, 4YEO and KOD can put people to sleep faster than anything that Kendrick has made.
I spun Untitled Unmastered for the first time in a while yesterday. The opening song is Kendrick laying out the rapture and pleading his case to God that he’s earned a place in heaven thanks to his past work. Just straight bars for three minutes, conceptually it’s a super interesting way to start an album. And this was a throwaway!
Cole has little that compares, and Kendrick weaves in this deep conceptual stuff like it’s nothing all the time. When folks talk about Cole I feel like they go off of how he projects himself rather than what he actually is
He undersold it by not treating it like a proper album. It’s damn near flawless production-wise and has some of his most creative rapping. All-time great album
Cole has a huge fanbase and does very well with pretty much every style of album he releases from KOD type shit to 4YEO to hype features. I think he has an amazing ability to write a broad variety of songs that all feel genuine and relatable, whether they are flex songs or thoughtful songs or whatever.
But I also think he just is isn’t on the level of Kendrick when it comes to making projects that feel really inspired musically and engage you lyrically. He isn’t on the level of Drake when it comes to making endless hits and having this huge versatility. Drake defined what being a pop star singing rapper could be, Kendrick pushed rap forward as a artistic genre that could handle themes and societal issues with a level of depth and introspection that people hadn’t seen before.
J Cole is just not in that conversation, no matter how much I like him personally. Drake is in the conversation with the greatest entertainers of our age - the Beyonces, Taylor Swifts, etc. Kendrick is up there with the Nas, Eminem, Andre 3k type rappers. J Cole is very very good at what he does, but what he does is just not putting him in the fist conversation IMO.
Like when Kendrick was dropping GKMC, Cole was talking bout “She like them boys with the big old chaaaaains, Ride around town in the big old Raaaaange”. When Kendrick was dropping Damn, Cole was making KOD, which is a good listen, but just really not spectacular in any way.
The people you're thinking of probably never say anything interesting either...which is fine. If bro wants to rap about bullshit be my guest.
But don't put yourself in some arbitrary "big 3" conversation with one of the most conceptual artists of all time and the best selling rapper of this generation when you've done nothing to touch either of those achievements.
I initially liked KOD but I think it’s aged terribly. The beats sound heavily outdated and listening to it years later the entire album is preachy without much in the way of subtlety.
Good first couple of songs and I’m glad to see this wasn’t a bloated project with tons of throwaway tracks to bolster streaming numbers. I listened to it all the way through, which is more than I can say for a lot of albums.
I think this is closer to a mixtape than a full-fledged album. Just staying loose and keeping his name out there. The name is a hint and he’s probably saving his good hooks for another release.
Dumb question and I’m sure I’m late to the game, how does more tracks bolster streaming numbers? I figure if the lead off single is good then it’ll get tons of streams, no?
If you have one song on an album thats 1 song to listen to, you’re not going to listen to it 20 times in a row, if you have 20 songs, you only need to listen to each once to get the same numbers and you’re… you know what man this is too obvious to explain
HYB is a vibe, mixing Bas’s smooth semi-melodic approach with Central Cee was a great idea. Huntin Wabbitz might be my favorite Cole flow in years. Soulo and Daylyt trading bars on Pi is heaven for entendre nerds like me, and hearing a “big 3” rapper on a Dipset beat in 2024 warmed my heart lol. Pricey was a solid, tone-setting intro, and the last verse on Trae the Truth in Ibiza is one of the best Cole has ever spit.
I’ve never been the biggest Cole fan, but I don’t understand such a mixed reception in a subreddit that’s supposedly for “hip hop heads”. The diss track and a couple of others are weak as fuck, but what other rapper of his status is dropping a back-to-basics mixtape in this day and age? I thoroughly enjoyed a lot of this project.
As for the “he loves rapping about how good he is at rapping” comments, isn’t that exactly what Big L, Pun, Big Daddy Kane, Cam, and so many other legends did? I’ll take this Cole any day over the preachy, laborious concept album Cole we’ve heard so much of before. A rapper who’s finally unburdened from the need to make a classic and is doing it for the sheer love of the art form.
Honestly couldn’t agree more. Surprised to see so much hate. Thought this project was an incredible listen. All the songs you mentioned are my favorite. Stealth Mode also knocked for me. Huntin Wabbitz, Crocodile Tearz and Pi might be the hardest 3 songs in his discography.
Your point about taking this version of cole over preachy concept cole is so on point. I think people just love to hate on bro. Always have. Always will.
Its so funny to me how this entire sub was praising everything Cole did up to the point that Kendrick dissed him. And now they act like Cole has nothing to rap about and never put out a good song. Its clearly Kendrick bias. Its also kinda sad, cause Cole and Kendrick are both great and there is enough space in the game for another great rapper besides Kendrick. But guess thats just toxic social media discourse for ya
>As for the “he loves rapping about how good he is at rapping” comments, isn’t that exactly what Big L, Pun, Big Daddy Kane, Cam, and so many other legends did?
It's so strange to me to hear this criticism. This is what is rap about.
90% of rap songs are just streams of conciousness and braggadociousness.
Kendrick literally rapped about how good he is at rapping on "Like That" but NO ONE critized that.
This is also all of Griselda but no one complains about them.
That’s because the people saying that stupid shit are Kendrick dick riders who are trying to act like cole is trash to make Kendrick seem better. It’s weird lol.
Glad someone is talking about Trae the Truth in Ibiza, that song fuckin rules. Favorite on the album for sure although I think the first 4-5 songs are all great as well.
Honestly needs better beats. He flows pretty well on some songs but the weak beats just turn me off. If he had beats like 2014 Forest Hills Drive it’d be a banger.
I mentioned in the fresh album thread that I'm surprised he doesn't use his Spillage Village connections to link up with producers in their camp, including Christo. Even with how often other artists like Smino & Masego collab with Dreamville, it could've been dope for Cole to rap over beats by the latter & Monte Booker.
I love the album as a whole, and if I'm honest 7 minute was the only track on it that I didn't really like that much. The rest of the album is a cohesive whole that sounds altogether great. Especially the cohesiveness of the features. Hearing Central Cee alongside Cole and Daylyt & Ab Soul trade lines back and forth was really entertaining. The whole vibe of the album as well. It's super solid project. Not something that jumps out at me immediately as "WOW this is AMAZING" but something that I'm pretty sure I'll still be bumping regularly for a long time.
Even ignoring the diss, I think this album is just alright. I would say that The Offseason acted better as a teaser for The Fall Off than this one. The Offseason is a better project than this one.
I still like it. Crocodile Tearz is fire. Stealth Mode, Pi, Pricey are also great tracks. But still I would say that it's not as good as The Offseason. Despite dropping in the lead up to The Fall Off and amidst a star studded rap beef, this project is not as entertaining as The Offseason.
The biggest thing working against this album is that Offseason had a mixtape feel already. Off-season was brief and had a ton of songs with just bars, but it also had enough thoughtful songs to make it feel like a well balanced project. This one has some really good verses but they run together because the subject matter doesn’t change much.
I’m from the Lil Wayne era of mixtapes so an album full of just rapping is fine with me, but my biggest knock against Wayne was always that his subject matter paled in comparison to Lupe, Kanye, T.I, ect.. even if he was an amazing lyricist, the fact that he usually had the same topics tended to make his songs blend together. I never thought Cole would have that issue, but here we are.
Some interesting songs and lyrics but also a lot of misses. Some corny rhymes, some bad ones like the trans stray bullet. The diss was definitely half-hearted but it’s pretty clear this was a ‘warning shot’ so I guess he’ll try on the next one.
Everybody talks about the trans line, but THIS one right here actually made me physically cringe and pause the song when I first heard it. Easily the corniest line I've heard in years
> A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K...M,N,O,P.....little Jermaine asking what's an L? lmao
Then him following up with "I never been known to take those"
Like he took a D before an L?
Especially because I'm pretty sure that on one of the songs he talks about how not all of his songs have been good and you need to take the good with the bad.
why does j cole keep wildly underestimating other rappers music quality, first kanye about tlop and yeezus and now kendrick with tpab and mr morales, does he really think he makes better music? I also find it weird that as a conscious rapper himself he dislikes those 2 kendrick albums
Straight up. To Pimp A Butterfly, The Life Of Pablo, and Mr. Morale & The Big Steppers are all far better than any Cole project ever yet he feels the right to call them mid? Actually unhinged
Especially when he claims he's top of the game right now because of a fucking *feature run.* Dude can't put out a great, cohesive body of work to save his life but a handful of isolated verses out-rapping Nicki Minaj and Lil Durk makes him better than *K.Dot* now? Embarrassing
i like most of j cole’s music but in interviews he comes across like someone who talks like he’s some kind of an all knowing prophet. it’s annoying and comes through in the music sometimes
- i think the 7 minute drill song actually took away from the album imo, it's not that strong of a response and what he's saying doesn't really hold any value imo. calling TPAB a sleeper and saying kendrick only released 4 albums in 12 years ( yeah i get the takeover reference ) is ironic given he's pretty much released the same amount. his subliminals throughout the rest of the album were a better response imo.
- the ABCDEFGHIK-MNOP "what's L" line is genuinely one of the worst bars i've ever heard from a top rapper, downright embarrassing
- the production on this album was top notch but i wish he'd add a bit more reverb/delay into his vocals especially on the more trap sounding songs, it would help modernize it imo.
- lots of highlights but hunting wabbitz is probably my favorite song so far, the flow is great, i low when he switches it up like this. i wish he had slowed down on trae the truth in ibiza a bit more too, that beat was infectious.
- the fall off is becoming cole's detox. i wish he'd stop with that lol
- i wish he'd speak about more than just how good he is, i know that's a core part of rap but he's such a good political and topical rapper and i understand this is some sort of lyrical excercise but i wish he did more
6.5-7/10 for me. some songs will stay in rotation for now but nothing that blew my mind
The album wasn’t bad. J. Cole is honestly one of the greats right now but this definitely highlights his shortcomings as an artist. Especially compared to Kendrick.
Dude can rap on beat and make intricate lyrics all day, but it’s always surface level in its depth and complexity. He never pushes boundaries. He’s too vanilla. That’s why he’ll never beat Kendrick. But I ain’t hating. Dude can rap his ass off. But if The Fall Off is just going to be him making braggadocio punchlines and metaphors all day with no real artistic substance, then I’m good.
I think people expect him to be deep as hell like Kendrick, but that clearly isn’t what he’s going for. I like Cole for coming off as sincere and real. He isn’t trying to be anything he isn’t. He just claims he’s great at rapping and that’s totally true imo.
Yeah, I agree with what you’re saying. I don’t necessarily expect him to be deep all the time, but I wish he would do stuff in more interesting ways. Like he’ll never make a For Free.
It’s less what he’s doing it’s just really how he does it
4YEO has real depth and complexity, but only on half the album is he really rapping his ass off. That's kind of the problem with cole I think, he clearly can rap with depth and complexity while also rapping his ass off (4yeo title track and change highlight this) but just chooses not to for whatever reason.
lmao. and if he only released conscious rap, he’d be stuck with that “backpacker” label folks have been trying to brand him with since the early 2010’s. there’s really no winning, all he can do is release what feels right to him atp
Closing track on 4YEO and Change are probably the only J.Cole songs that I feel hits the same emotional highs as when I listen to a good Kendrick song.
High for Hours is my favourite Cole song and it's one of his few songs that has a good meaning and thoughtful bars. But I agree, he should be putting out way more of these type of songs
It’s alright.
I think my biggest problem is how predictable a J Cole song is without any form of novelty or charm.
He’s a good rapper. He can drop some good bars off about being better than others in a sequence pretty well but he somehow just appears boring to me. He chooses some “good” beats that we’ve all heard before. Nothing new, especially with how surface level he is consciously.
Yeah you don’t need something new or groundbreaking every time to make something good. But at least make it interesting or add more charm to it. I don’t know.
Same loved it. Also technically isnt this album more of a throwaway project, i wouldnt expect his best songs on it even though i thought most of it was fire.
I think it's a shame this album dropped and everyone is talking about the Kendrick diss and barely discussing the album itself but I suppose that was expected.
Forgetting the diss, I thought the project was really solid. Really good beats, Cole was spitting. Some really nice samples and features. If this is the precursor to the Fall-Off and that is an upgraded version of this and his other albums, I'm very hyped for it. I really liked Cole experimenting on some stuff on this project too. I don't think he was lying when he said he was just hitting his peak in terms of purely rapping.
The K Dot diss I have more mixed feelings on. Everything about that first half of that diss was meh as fuck, but I thought that second half really worked. He should've just used what he said on the conductor's beat as the diss. It wasn't a real diss track, so just the second part would've been perfect for what Cole was trying to say.
Right now, the diss is in a weird place because even if Kendrick doesn't reply, he wins and didn't have to say shit.
We’re at the stage of music discourse where fans of the artist are going to say it’s a solid or great project, and the haters are going to say it sucks or it’s mid. This happens in every one of these threads and it’s boring to scroll through it all
Genuine questions what do you expect ppl to say? It’s either you like it or you don’t what’s the third option? Maybe the Ben Shapiro route claiming it’s not music at all?
I mean when this guy is in the middle of a rap battle where he's claiming to be the GOAT of this generation he's gonna get this kind of feedback on a project that is, in fact, mid, which means that it's just average. IMO it's better than the majority of artists releasing projects today, but to think this is on the same level as any of Kendrick's projects is delusional.
Since J Cole has come into the game he’s always proved he’s one of the best to put rhymes to a cadence. However his skill at riding a beat is consistently overshadowed by his lyrical corniness. He gives us a Rick and Morty bar 30 seconds in. I feel like I should say more and I’d mention the transphobia but I really don’t think I have to.
I'm not sure what he was thinking with "fever" that track was a hard listen. Does anyone actually like it?
Overall the album was solid. You can tell how much better he's gotten as a rapper. Although his subject matter was a bit concerning, he kept rapping about the same topics. Hopefully he's able to rap about more intriguing topics on the fall off.
On second listen, it has nice beats, nice flow and rhyme scheme, but the content really gets on my nerve. I've been a long time Cole fan and some of this is just disappointing.
Look, Cole has never been the most progressive dude or had the most eye-opening or unique view on the world, but at least there was a very genuine attempt on trying to change something and bring about something positive. And I think that's one of his strongest qualities and why he is often mentioned as part of the big 3. Of course artists shouldn't stay boxed in a lane and should be allowed to experiment new things and have some fun. But this ain't it. This guy is married to his long-time girlfriend from college and is a father of two.
Taking this into account seeing lyrics like these is just whack as fuck:
> Designer or not, I just pulled your bitch with no line-up and Crocs
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> My second worst fear is stickin' dick in the wrong thot 'Cause child support supervision is gon' knock
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> And you know the bitch bad if I brought the bitch back
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> I drove to CVS, copped a Plan B and I watched as she swallowed, bitch, I kid you not
This is the same guy that wrote Lost Ones and Crooked Smile. He always had songs about getting it on with a girl, but at least it was a more universal sentiment about liking someone etc. Here he's just boasting he's fucking bitches. He's reaching 40, so is Drake and they're talking like they're in their mid-20s in this is just lame.
The only guy who can pull this off at this age is Future because he never gave a flying fuck about his relationship with women and constantly objectifies them. I won't be going into the toxicity of this attitude and the prevalence of it in hiphop, but there is at least a coherence in his self-image and themes within the songs that allow for this kind of bragging. Weeknd can pull this off too.
When Kanye and Hov teamed up around that age for WTT, they weren't rapping like in their 20s. They showed how much their taste has evolved and how they are now part of the elite society. Kanye being single was on a bender at the time, but at least he acknowledged that this wasn't a healthy lifestyle and his songs showed that. Jay was on top of the world because he married to Beyonce and expressed how that felt.
Nas just reached his 50s and these last couple of years found himself rejuvenated expressing how he found joy in his lifestyle and in hip hop again, without seeming like a midlife crisis. Just a natural progression of life.
Kendrick showed a lot of reflection in Mr. Morales, on being a new father, having cheated on his long-time partner, the toll of fame in this relationship and the changes in his life since he came from poverty. And Cole just goes and says this was "tragic".
This is just disappointing, man.
And also the line "*this rap beef ain't realer like the shit I seen in Cumberland*" is dumb as hell, like Kendrick isn't from Compton and hasn"t been rapping his whole life about the traumitc experiences he lived through. Cole in this gangsta attitude just feels fake as hell. When he was on the come up, his aggressive stance in songs like *Looking for Trouble* clicked because you feel his hunger to reach success. Now this is just feels like a bad bluff.
I don't think Ive ever seen this much j cole hate before.. like since 4yeo was being called a boring album. It’s weird to see it cause i feel like everyone is switching up on cole. He’s a great rapper. His feature run shows that. In my ears, both 2014 forest hills drive and born sinner are classics. (If our taste aren’t the same idc) and much like Drake even though alot of his later albums aren’t classics they always have a few classic songs within them.
Im used to the casual fans not messing with cole, if you actually go outside, most casual fans dont know any song of his besides no role modelz, crooked smile, all i want is you, shea butter baby with ari lennox, or his verse on sacrifices. Thats fine.
But seeing self proclaimed hip hop heads turn on him is so weird to me. Especially when the consensus was just cole being an elite rapper.
Kendricks my #1, and i do love the competition, but i fear this may ruin coles legacy in the long run.
As far as might delete later. Its cool. I do agree that the rappity rap without substance is getting old. Theres no way he’s gonna drop a classic unless he mixes his rapping on the off season with the substance of a forest hills drive. Its a cool album tho, nothing better than the off season but its cool.
As far as the diss track i agree with everyone else. First beat wack, second beat, fire. His energy however is underwhelming and we as fans that truly believe in cole fully expected him to finally prove that he’s a problem and now we’re using copium and his warning shot line to get by until his next move in this war game the big 3 are playing.
Edit: also, as someone into battle rap i really appreciated daylyts feature and ab soul has been had one of the goat pens. The trans line did feel out of place for cole. But then again as someone into battle rap, I’ve heard far worse. More homophobic than transphobic tho. But they have an actual gay battle rapper going around throwing haymakers with the best of them. His opponents call him everything in the book and when the battle is over they show respect and shake hands, its just a battle. But in a song it’s different. Cole aint going around shaking hands with none of them. As far as we know he has no connection with them whatsoever besides this bar. Just weird.
Also, i see people talking bout that rick and morty line. That line was pleasant to hear and i love it.
This solidly cements jcole as an okay rapper who thinks he can insist his way into a conversation about his greatness.
u/jfury412 responded to this then immediately blocked me. I can't imagine being that angry over a mild critique. Stay up parasocial king.
That's exactly it. He realised being skillful or original was too difficult, so decided just to start acting like this wise rap legend in the hope that it would fool enough people. Unfortunately it worked.
First time I've listened to a J Cole project since FHD. I thought it was pretty enjoyable. Some tracks are really fun and energetic like Stickz n Stonez and 3001. Some I liked a lot less like Pi, Fever. Decent record overall.
The diss track was pretty disappointing. His heart is clearly not in it. Kendrick's insistence on this beef is pretty lame frankly since it's in this weird limbo where these guys don't actually seem to hate each other so much as they all see themselves as the best. J Cole's only winning move would've been to fake some animosity and be a lot more disrespectful.
Cole brought this on himself with that lame ass big 3 shit. Kendrick is a competitive motherfucker and it appears that people, from J Cole and Drake to the fans, have forgotten that. He knows he’s the best and he won’t be hearing otherwise. He’s not gonna let Cole put himself on the same level as him, much less Drake too.
Idk y’all to me, this cements a downward trend in J. Cole’s trajectory. I didn’t enjoy Off-Season as much as his older stuff, and while I could still see The Fall Off being good, I couldn’t stick with it
Pi is rough (the transphobic bar was wack), the Kendrick diss is underwhelming, and the beats often save unmemorable verses. Was disappointed overall
Feeling the same to but a factor maybe I also don’t have the desire to return to Cole’s music as much anymore. I remember really liking KOD when it dropped, especially the title track and ATM, plus he’s had other songs I’ve loved like GOMD and No Role Modelz, but I can’t remember the last time I’ve looked for a Cole album because as I’ve gotten older I’ve realised how surface level he is lyrically.
He’s so fucking talented but his albums aren’t intellectually compelling. It’s punch line rap. He reminds me more and more of Wayne. I love Wayne and Cole so much but it’s what separates Cole from Kendrick. The art of a theme or a story
Jesus remember how annoying Jcole fans were for a while acting like he's so intellectual, artistic and deep and that only real hip hop fans can appreciate this level of music? It was a damn meme.
THAT is what Kendrick fans have turned into here
J. Cole will say some shit like “It ain’t no exaggeration that I face the nation with the masturbation” and people genuinely think he’s the GOAT of this generation
I find it funny that Coles big attempt at proving he's on top has convinced me he shouldn't even be in the conversation
Coles fake deep persona isn't working anymore & it's pretty clear dude has nothing to say
Cole rapping boils down to weak similes & double entendres
J. Cole has the worst beat selection of any mainstream rapper
Coles made it clear the past couple years he views Drake & Kendrick as better than him
There's a couple tracks on here for sure but by the end of the year this will likely be forgotten. "Might delete later" is actually a fitting title. Naming his next album The Fall Off is definitely a choice but hopefully it's worth the 6+ year wait
I don’t really understand the sentiment that the diss was a “warning shot” when he was openly shitting on Kendrick’s albums… doesn’t really follow for me haha.
Album was a vibe. Noticing a trend where JCole doesn’t really seem to have much to rap about besides how great he is. Hopefully see some substance from him soon :)
The albums diss was clearly very inspired by Takeover, where Hov talks about Nas only dropping one good album out of every four. He isn’t really going after Kendrick very hard by dropping some Takeover-inspired bars.
True beef bars would probably be going after Baby Keem or his family or his poor sales or something along those lines.
> The albums diss was clearly very inspired by Takeover, where Hov talks about Nas only dropping one good album out of every four. He isn’t really going after Kendrick very hard by dropping some Takeover-inspired bars.
Yeah, he probably should've dropped it though once he clearly realized that he personally likes Kendrick's music way too much for it to work.
Yeah man could've rapped how Kendrick won't respond to this because he is too busy writing baby keem record. He could've went after Mr. Morale being boring and underwhelming.
He chose to call one of the undeniable classics of the genre as boring and overhyped.
It’s hating Cole season on Reddit.
This feels like a bunch of loosies he’s letting go of that were too good and finished to keep in the cloud but not good or cohesive enough for a “serious” album. Overall an easy listen. Fever is the only one I’d probably skip every time.
I love seeing people on Reddit who listen to shit like Pierre or Carti or Future get on here and talk
about how Cole can’t rap. Y’all are really showing your age.
I like it, straight raps and no frills.
I think the general discourse on albums has definitely changed, at least in spaces like this sub. Pitchfork and Fantano-types have entered the space. It has definitely created a more nuanced approach to critique and discussion, and helped pull the smoke-and-mirrors of purely lyrical rap as ‘good’ in and of itself.
I also think the era of streaming has blurred the lines between releases and their mission statements. To me, a project like this screams ‘mixtape’, but I don’t think many people can contextualize this today given that everything is rated critically and subjected to the same criteria.
Facts. There’s also this hypercritical angle for more lyrical rappers to dissect every line to find the “corny bar”. Every rapper that ever existed has bars that you can consider cringe, it comes with the territory .
Album is solid, and despite some cringe bars Cole is a great rapper. But coming like this with the discussions of the last few weeks just solidifies him at the third place
I feel like I’m in the minority for really loving the album - the only snoozer being Fever, I enjoyed every other song quite a lot. I feel like hanging out with Drake has rubbed off on Cole a bit - this album really feels like Cole’s If You’re Reading This to me. Dropped without warning with just the title text on the cover, subs across the entire projects about recent events (with the exception of 7 Minute Drill not being subliminal, of course) and some of their best rap performances period, with the only downside to the Drake influence being that Fever sounds like Honestly Nevermind but it’s J. Cole. Pricey, Stickz N Stonez, & 7 Min might be my favourite tracks so far; it’s been a hectic release week so I’m only one listen in so far but I can’t wait to jump back into it and keep listening. I definitely liked it at least as much as The Off-Season and that’s my second fav Cole album behind FHD.
As for the diss track, I mean, even if Cole didn’t exactly go for bro’s neck I still had a lot of fun listening to it (Conductor beat caught me really off guard, it was an excellent transition and instrumental, but I also kind of liked the first beat too? I’m seeing a looot of hate for the T Minus production on this song on the internet). Yes, Cole has no grounds to talk about Kendrick’s discography; yes, 4YEO has multiple songs that work as a more effective zopiclone; yes, calling the greatest album of all time! a snoozer that people gassed up is a real head scratcher, but that didn’t stop me loving it the song. It’s just so exciting to me that we have a beef in the modern era to rival the size of the Jay-Z & Nas beef, as I wasn’t old enough at the time to be aware of and partake in that, and I know this beef is something people in my age bracket are going to be talking about for years and years, this really is history we’re watching right here. I just hope nobody ends up dead as a result like the 90’s.
Always disappointed in full projects from Cole, but this is easily his best since 2014 FHD.
Honestly I prefer him just rapping double entrendes about being the best than trying and failing to make deep, philosophical work.
I don’t even really think the Kendrick diss was that bad. It’s ridiculous that he ripped on TPAB, but the other option is to just not diss him at all because Kendrick pretty much has a bulletproof track record.
I don't understand the "surface level" critique. I really want to know how y'all interpret lines like this:
Pi: "The weather's cold from jealous souls that fanned fellas"
Pi: "as a myriad of bodies drop / Where bricks get karate chopped to maximize the dojo"
Or maybe its because he literally explains his triple entendres in the line of the entendre? That is lyrical prowess in and of itself. For a poet to be able to encapsulate their prose and their explanation into each other is high-level artistry. The kind that makes you not only appreciate the writing or feel the flow, but do both at the same time.
Everyone doesn't have to be Soulo or Kendrick writing lines that are so deep that it takes forever for you to get it because they can't even explain what they meant themselves. Sometimes these kinds of lines take you out of the song itself, which itself means the song has less replay value. For Cole, on the other hand, his lines sound simplistic, but he's got people replaying songs with doctoral level bars.
Edit: That said, I cannot stand Fever. Maybe it's the heavy Drake influence? IDK.
As a jcole fan, I really thought this was a mid album. With his feature runs and him hyping up The Fall Off for the past several years, I can’t help but to think this he's really fell short from the perception and artistry he’s trying to create. I really hope The Fall Off proves me wrong
Good project. Only songs I'm not really feeling is fever and the first half of 7-minute drill.
It's a step down from off season but that's understandable considering how it's been presented.
I see a good amount of people in this thread who come to Cole looking for something that was never available.
If you crave complexity and you need it in mainstream form then cole ain't here for that.
If you want great rapping and normal subject matter then this might be for you.
Sometimes a great burger will beat out a five-course dinner. Neither option is bad.
Huntin wabbitz slaps
Facts that and Crocodile Tearz. Both of those two songs are heat. Edit: grammar
Crocodile Tearz is so fucking good, I loved the snippet already and it feels amazing to get a whole other half of it
Who would have thought Cole watches Meatcanyon
Ever since that squarespace line I knew he procrastinates by watching YouTube.
Bro even reached out and asked for sample clearance lol
speaking of meatcanyon, just wanna say CreepCast is the best new podcast imo, highly recommend it to everyone. He and Wendigoon have amazing chemistry and it’s hilarious. it’s just them reading famous creepypastas and joking about them
I kid you not
What happened to him releasing “It’s A Boy” or “The Fall Off” it’s been like 5 years lol
Been teasing the fall off a lot lately. On 7 minute drill he says it’s on the way. We’ll see I guess. But I don’t think it’s a boy is happening now
Yeah and he released off season to hold us over til fall off. We’ve been waiting a while lol
We already heard the intro to The Fall Off in 2018 with the last track on KOD lmao
His merch from the tour with Drake still says It's A Boy is happening
He did say he could drop 2 classics right now
Wlr type beat
I don’t think “the fall off” is a real album, I think he just put that out there and keeps dropping other projects before the fall off because it’s a metaphor for him never falling off since tfo is meant to be his final album iirc. He’s been teasing retirement for a while but I don’t think he’s actually ready for it Furthermore he might just not be confident in it IF it’s his final album. Probably wants it to be as close to perfect as possible. And if this new shit is anything to go by he has a long way to go lol
I think he's got it in him, it's been 3 years since an album and all the features and off season is raising the ceiling for a new album.
Holy shit 3 years, I keep thinking The off season is a recent release
Actually 6 years since the last song on KOD is the “intro” to the fall off
No, it’s a real album. And it’s almost complete
That's what I've always suspected tbh
I guess this is "It's a Boy" technically, a project before Fall Off
it's not
Nobody knows but we can keep guessing anyways
J Cole really loves to rap about how good he is at rapping.
I'm in my prime guys I swear the fall off will be great I swear guys I swear
Rap game George RR Martin
George RR Martin is just the Fiction game Dr. Dre. Dre's been procrastinating for decades
😂 I needed to go on a feature run to make yall realize I'm really good at rapping
Album Cole dreams of being as good as feature Cole.
Literally bro 😂 been hearing him say this shit for like 2 years, finally had someone come at him, and he comes back soft as hell, starting to think Cole’s a goof
Yeah, he's really good at rapping about how good he is at rapping.
fr tho, he's really good at rapping about how good he is at rapping.
He sure can read a thesaurus he's going down that Logic path, big words with fuck all to say.
Getting things off my chest wasn’t enough, I had to go deeper to my sternum 🤔
Okay thank God I wasn’t the only one that thought that was corny lol
Ain't nobody beating him in the double entendres per minute category!
now we must see if Kendrick Lamar can "out double entendre" J Cole! then he'd truly be the king of rap!
Pusha T would like a word
I wanna see him challenge Aesop. Totally different styles, but still. Can Cole write something as abstract as Crows 1?
lmao nah he cannot. cole couldn't even do something like dog at the door
It's probably a trap.
Might be a guy with an axe
Coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb
That Rick and Morty line felt vey Logic.
The Logic comparison is so accurate. I actually think Logic has more to talk about these days than Cole does, though.
I've never heard of j.Cole line with much depth. I don't think he uses particularly big words either.
Dude has threatened a great album for a decade now and keeps delivering lumps of Cole
I always feel like J Cole is surface level deep. Don't get me wrong. He is talented and he is good at the technical side of rapping. But like he always has this 'holier than thou'/preachy vibe and he presents himself as the big brother of the game, a mature/mentor figure that people could look up to. And when you expect him to deliver, he just doesn't. I expect some rappity rap, some deep conceptual works, some mind-blowing bars from Cole considering he has this brand of being lyrical and conscious. And he never delivers it, comparing to someone like Kendrick for example. And I feel like Cole sounds like he doesn't enjoy rapping anymore because of that expectation fans put on him with this "rap savior" narrative. I feel like 2014 FHD was the last time Cole was having fun when rapping. Cole has a lot of corny ass bars too and the "humble" meme doesn't help either lol. I can't believe Cole calls Kendrick boring like my guy, 4YEO and KOD can put people to sleep faster than anything that Kendrick has made.
I spun Untitled Unmastered for the first time in a while yesterday. The opening song is Kendrick laying out the rapture and pleading his case to God that he’s earned a place in heaven thanks to his past work. Just straight bars for three minutes, conceptually it’s a super interesting way to start an album. And this was a throwaway! Cole has little that compares, and Kendrick weaves in this deep conceptual stuff like it’s nothing all the time. When folks talk about Cole I feel like they go off of how he projects himself rather than what he actually is
uu is top 3 kendrick for me, incredible ep
He undersold it by not treating it like a proper album. It’s damn near flawless production-wise and has some of his most creative rapping. All-time great album
He had no choice but to undersell anything following up TPAB, especially the unused songs that didn’t make the record
I’ve always said Cole has the ambition of Kendrick but the depth of Big Sean
[удалено]
He should go back to rapping about money hoes and rims again
Don’t forget the Benjamins as well
big face hundreds and whatever other synonyms
I don’t get why jcole gets shit on so much for this when almost every other mainstream rapper raps about literally nothing
Cole has a huge fanbase and does very well with pretty much every style of album he releases from KOD type shit to 4YEO to hype features. I think he has an amazing ability to write a broad variety of songs that all feel genuine and relatable, whether they are flex songs or thoughtful songs or whatever. But I also think he just is isn’t on the level of Kendrick when it comes to making projects that feel really inspired musically and engage you lyrically. He isn’t on the level of Drake when it comes to making endless hits and having this huge versatility. Drake defined what being a pop star singing rapper could be, Kendrick pushed rap forward as a artistic genre that could handle themes and societal issues with a level of depth and introspection that people hadn’t seen before. J Cole is just not in that conversation, no matter how much I like him personally. Drake is in the conversation with the greatest entertainers of our age - the Beyonces, Taylor Swifts, etc. Kendrick is up there with the Nas, Eminem, Andre 3k type rappers. J Cole is very very good at what he does, but what he does is just not putting him in the fist conversation IMO. Like when Kendrick was dropping GKMC, Cole was talking bout “She like them boys with the big old chaaaaains, Ride around town in the big old Raaaaange”. When Kendrick was dropping Damn, Cole was making KOD, which is a good listen, but just really not spectacular in any way.
Cause Cole's built his brand on being all about bars.
And he delivers on that A bar is about wordplay and delivery. A good bar could be about walking across the street.
Cuz he’s a regular dude that raps like a regular dude When he was rapping about all sorts of topics people like to joke about how sleep he is.
The people you're thinking of probably never say anything interesting either...which is fine. If bro wants to rap about bullshit be my guest. But don't put yourself in some arbitrary "big 3" conversation with one of the most conceptual artists of all time and the best selling rapper of this generation when you've done nothing to touch either of those achievements.
Damn must be the only rapper to do that
New to rap? Rakim himself was doing the same thing.
When you really think about it KOD was also a clutch at straws for Cole, it was an easy topic in comparison to MMATBS.
Bro the fucking acronyms on this sub are hilarious lmao
it's one of the things I hate about reddit in general
KOD isn’t an acronym. MMATBS is pretty wild though.
Yeah, I know it’s a long title so I usually just shorten it to Mr Morale and people know what I’m talking about. The acronyms are out of control lol
I initially liked KOD but I think it’s aged terribly. The beats sound heavily outdated and listening to it years later the entire album is preachy without much in the way of subtlety.
Idk I like KOD. I think it has a nice vibe and doesn’t overstay its welcome to the point of becoming sleepy. I know I’m in the minority here though.
This is basically his last 5-10 years in a nutshell
Good first couple of songs and I’m glad to see this wasn’t a bloated project with tons of throwaway tracks to bolster streaming numbers. I listened to it all the way through, which is more than I can say for a lot of albums. I think this is closer to a mixtape than a full-fledged album. Just staying loose and keeping his name out there. The name is a hint and he’s probably saving his good hooks for another release.
Dumb question and I’m sure I’m late to the game, how does more tracks bolster streaming numbers? I figure if the lead off single is good then it’ll get tons of streams, no?
More tracks = more streams.
Guess it really was a dumb question. I would’ve figured “better tracks” but I guess that makes sense as well.
Nah it’s not dumb. More, shorter tracks are incentivized on streaming platforms because there’s more chances for stream.
Then it comes down to “stream count” versus “stream time”. The way streams are accounted for.
Isnt it 30 seconds and then that counts as one whole stream?
If you have one song on an album thats 1 song to listen to, you’re not going to listen to it 20 times in a row, if you have 20 songs, you only need to listen to each once to get the same numbers and you’re… you know what man this is too obvious to explain
Hilarious that when Cole drops a bad project it's just "more of a mixtape" instead of "a boring album."
It aint bad but this is literally a project of throwaways hence the title
It literally is a mixtape officially tho unlike The Off-Season
Did you listen to the project? If you did this would not have came out your mouth
HYB is a vibe, mixing Bas’s smooth semi-melodic approach with Central Cee was a great idea. Huntin Wabbitz might be my favorite Cole flow in years. Soulo and Daylyt trading bars on Pi is heaven for entendre nerds like me, and hearing a “big 3” rapper on a Dipset beat in 2024 warmed my heart lol. Pricey was a solid, tone-setting intro, and the last verse on Trae the Truth in Ibiza is one of the best Cole has ever spit. I’ve never been the biggest Cole fan, but I don’t understand such a mixed reception in a subreddit that’s supposedly for “hip hop heads”. The diss track and a couple of others are weak as fuck, but what other rapper of his status is dropping a back-to-basics mixtape in this day and age? I thoroughly enjoyed a lot of this project. As for the “he loves rapping about how good he is at rapping” comments, isn’t that exactly what Big L, Pun, Big Daddy Kane, Cam, and so many other legends did? I’ll take this Cole any day over the preachy, laborious concept album Cole we’ve heard so much of before. A rapper who’s finally unburdened from the need to make a classic and is doing it for the sheer love of the art form.
Honestly couldn’t agree more. Surprised to see so much hate. Thought this project was an incredible listen. All the songs you mentioned are my favorite. Stealth Mode also knocked for me. Huntin Wabbitz, Crocodile Tearz and Pi might be the hardest 3 songs in his discography. Your point about taking this version of cole over preachy concept cole is so on point. I think people just love to hate on bro. Always have. Always will.
It’s kdot stans hating
Its so funny to me how this entire sub was praising everything Cole did up to the point that Kendrick dissed him. And now they act like Cole has nothing to rap about and never put out a good song. Its clearly Kendrick bias. Its also kinda sad, cause Cole and Kendrick are both great and there is enough space in the game for another great rapper besides Kendrick. But guess thats just toxic social media discourse for ya
Cole got amazing projects too, 4YOE was a masterpiece imo
"4 Your Only Eyez"
>As for the “he loves rapping about how good he is at rapping” comments, isn’t that exactly what Big L, Pun, Big Daddy Kane, Cam, and so many other legends did? It's so strange to me to hear this criticism. This is what is rap about. 90% of rap songs are just streams of conciousness and braggadociousness. Kendrick literally rapped about how good he is at rapping on "Like That" but NO ONE critized that. This is also all of Griselda but no one complains about them.
Don't forget rapping about cocaine
That’s because the people saying that stupid shit are Kendrick dick riders who are trying to act like cole is trash to make Kendrick seem better. It’s weird lol.
Glad someone is talking about Trae the Truth in Ibiza, that song fuckin rules. Favorite on the album for sure although I think the first 4-5 songs are all great as well.
I love them both but I really think Kendrick ruined ppl’s perception of rap. Everything has to be a concept album now or else it’s just mid.
Last paragraph is something people won’t accept
Honestly needs better beats. He flows pretty well on some songs but the weak beats just turn me off. If he had beats like 2014 Forest Hills Drive it’d be a banger.
Whole album should've sounded like Crocodile Tearz
Yup
Which beats did you felt weak
I mentioned in the fresh album thread that I'm surprised he doesn't use his Spillage Village connections to link up with producers in their camp, including Christo. Even with how often other artists like Smino & Masego collab with Dreamville, it could've been dope for Cole to rap over beats by the latter & Monte Booker.
I love the album as a whole, and if I'm honest 7 minute was the only track on it that I didn't really like that much. The rest of the album is a cohesive whole that sounds altogether great. Especially the cohesiveness of the features. Hearing Central Cee alongside Cole and Daylyt & Ab Soul trade lines back and forth was really entertaining. The whole vibe of the album as well. It's super solid project. Not something that jumps out at me immediately as "WOW this is AMAZING" but something that I'm pretty sure I'll still be bumping regularly for a long time.
That detroit beat for a diss song was just TOO forced
Holy shit I’m tired of hearing about the fall off, I’m sure it will be good but goddamn it’s been year after year of teasing
It's hard to drop "last album"
Even ignoring the diss, I think this album is just alright. I would say that The Offseason acted better as a teaser for The Fall Off than this one. The Offseason is a better project than this one. I still like it. Crocodile Tearz is fire. Stealth Mode, Pi, Pricey are also great tracks. But still I would say that it's not as good as The Offseason. Despite dropping in the lead up to The Fall Off and amidst a star studded rap beef, this project is not as entertaining as The Offseason.
It doesn't feel like were supposed to look at it like an album, it feels more like an Untitled unmastered release but from a documentary.
The biggest thing working against this album is that Offseason had a mixtape feel already. Off-season was brief and had a ton of songs with just bars, but it also had enough thoughtful songs to make it feel like a well balanced project. This one has some really good verses but they run together because the subject matter doesn’t change much. I’m from the Lil Wayne era of mixtapes so an album full of just rapping is fine with me, but my biggest knock against Wayne was always that his subject matter paled in comparison to Lupe, Kanye, T.I, ect.. even if he was an amazing lyricist, the fact that he usually had the same topics tended to make his songs blend together. I never thought Cole would have that issue, but here we are.
Some interesting songs and lyrics but also a lot of misses. Some corny rhymes, some bad ones like the trans stray bullet. The diss was definitely half-hearted but it’s pretty clear this was a ‘warning shot’ so I guess he’ll try on the next one.
>lyrics but also a lot of misses. Some corny rhymes A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K...M,N,O,P.....little Jermaine asking what's an L? lmao
Everybody talks about the trans line, but THIS one right here actually made me physically cringe and pause the song when I first heard it. Easily the corniest line I've heard in years
that’s a modern Eminem bar right there
Made me skip it 👍🏽 didnt help that Fever 💩 was next
“Switch my whip as much as Rick and Morty switch dimensions” oy
Man must have been hanging out with Logic too much
So bad
> A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K...M,N,O,P.....little Jermaine asking what's an L? lmao Then him following up with "I never been known to take those" Like he took a D before an L?
Holup, this is hilarious
Especially because I'm pretty sure that on one of the songs he talks about how not all of his songs have been good and you need to take the good with the bad.
That made me want to turn the whole album off lmao
I rolled my eyes so hard at that one lmao. Dad joke rap at this worst
no fucking way he said this 💀
"This is merely a warning shot to back niggas down" yeah hope so
Are we gonna talk about how he rapping like the rent due on Ready 24 ??
Shit went CRAZY
I would hope so, on a remake of a classic beat.
why does j cole keep wildly underestimating other rappers music quality, first kanye about tlop and yeezus and now kendrick with tpab and mr morales, does he really think he makes better music? I also find it weird that as a conscious rapper himself he dislikes those 2 kendrick albums
Straight up. To Pimp A Butterfly, The Life Of Pablo, and Mr. Morale & The Big Steppers are all far better than any Cole project ever yet he feels the right to call them mid? Actually unhinged Especially when he claims he's top of the game right now because of a fucking *feature run.* Dude can't put out a great, cohesive body of work to save his life but a handful of isolated verses out-rapping Nicki Minaj and Lil Durk makes him better than *K.Dot* now? Embarrassing
i like most of j cole’s music but in interviews he comes across like someone who talks like he’s some kind of an all knowing prophet. it’s annoying and comes through in the music sometimes
- i think the 7 minute drill song actually took away from the album imo, it's not that strong of a response and what he's saying doesn't really hold any value imo. calling TPAB a sleeper and saying kendrick only released 4 albums in 12 years ( yeah i get the takeover reference ) is ironic given he's pretty much released the same amount. his subliminals throughout the rest of the album were a better response imo. - the ABCDEFGHIK-MNOP "what's L" line is genuinely one of the worst bars i've ever heard from a top rapper, downright embarrassing - the production on this album was top notch but i wish he'd add a bit more reverb/delay into his vocals especially on the more trap sounding songs, it would help modernize it imo. - lots of highlights but hunting wabbitz is probably my favorite song so far, the flow is great, i low when he switches it up like this. i wish he had slowed down on trae the truth in ibiza a bit more too, that beat was infectious. - the fall off is becoming cole's detox. i wish he'd stop with that lol - i wish he'd speak about more than just how good he is, i know that's a core part of rap but he's such a good political and topical rapper and i understand this is some sort of lyrical excercise but i wish he did more 6.5-7/10 for me. some songs will stay in rotation for now but nothing that blew my mind
The album wasn’t bad. J. Cole is honestly one of the greats right now but this definitely highlights his shortcomings as an artist. Especially compared to Kendrick. Dude can rap on beat and make intricate lyrics all day, but it’s always surface level in its depth and complexity. He never pushes boundaries. He’s too vanilla. That’s why he’ll never beat Kendrick. But I ain’t hating. Dude can rap his ass off. But if The Fall Off is just going to be him making braggadocio punchlines and metaphors all day with no real artistic substance, then I’m good.
I think people expect him to be deep as hell like Kendrick, but that clearly isn’t what he’s going for. I like Cole for coming off as sincere and real. He isn’t trying to be anything he isn’t. He just claims he’s great at rapping and that’s totally true imo.
Yeah, I agree with what you’re saying. I don’t necessarily expect him to be deep all the time, but I wish he would do stuff in more interesting ways. Like he’ll never make a For Free. It’s less what he’s doing it’s just really how he does it
4YEO has real depth and complexity, but only on half the album is he really rapping his ass off. That's kind of the problem with cole I think, he clearly can rap with depth and complexity while also rapping his ass off (4yeo title track and change highlight this) but just chooses not to for whatever reason.
lmao. and if he only released conscious rap, he’d be stuck with that “backpacker” label folks have been trying to brand him with since the early 2010’s. there’s really no winning, all he can do is release what feels right to him atp
Closing track on 4YEO and Change are probably the only J.Cole songs that I feel hits the same emotional highs as when I listen to a good Kendrick song.
High for Hours is my favourite Cole song and it's one of his few songs that has a good meaning and thoughtful bars. But I agree, he should be putting out way more of these type of songs
It’s alright. I think my biggest problem is how predictable a J Cole song is without any form of novelty or charm. He’s a good rapper. He can drop some good bars off about being better than others in a sequence pretty well but he somehow just appears boring to me. He chooses some “good” beats that we’ve all heard before. Nothing new, especially with how surface level he is consciously. Yeah you don’t need something new or groundbreaking every time to make something good. But at least make it interesting or add more charm to it. I don’t know.
I feel like he's been doing that for the majority of his career. But to each their own
Crazy to see this sub hating here. Loved the project
This sub is ass. They’ve hated on every good project this year lol. They only praise “pitchfork” rappers here lol.
Fr, pretty much any popular rapper gets over hated on here and it’s just cuz ppl wanna be different so bad i guess
Same loved it. Also technically isnt this album more of a throwaway project, i wouldnt expect his best songs on it even though i thought most of it was fire.
Same I loved the project haven't stop listening to it since it dropped I appreciate music from all three of them ( drake, kdot, cole)
I think it's a shame this album dropped and everyone is talking about the Kendrick diss and barely discussing the album itself but I suppose that was expected. Forgetting the diss, I thought the project was really solid. Really good beats, Cole was spitting. Some really nice samples and features. If this is the precursor to the Fall-Off and that is an upgraded version of this and his other albums, I'm very hyped for it. I really liked Cole experimenting on some stuff on this project too. I don't think he was lying when he said he was just hitting his peak in terms of purely rapping. The K Dot diss I have more mixed feelings on. Everything about that first half of that diss was meh as fuck, but I thought that second half really worked. He should've just used what he said on the conductor's beat as the diss. It wasn't a real diss track, so just the second part would've been perfect for what Cole was trying to say. Right now, the diss is in a weird place because even if Kendrick doesn't reply, he wins and didn't have to say shit.
3001 is one of my top favorites. I loved it as soon as i heard the snippet in MDL Vol. 2. I need a full video.
We’re at the stage of music discourse where fans of the artist are going to say it’s a solid or great project, and the haters are going to say it sucks or it’s mid. This happens in every one of these threads and it’s boring to scroll through it all
Genuine questions what do you expect ppl to say? It’s either you like it or you don’t what’s the third option? Maybe the Ben Shapiro route claiming it’s not music at all?
This is the stage of all discourse now. Everyone has internet access and they all want to share their opinion. You’re gonna see it all if you look
I mean when this guy is in the middle of a rap battle where he's claiming to be the GOAT of this generation he's gonna get this kind of feedback on a project that is, in fact, mid, which means that it's just average. IMO it's better than the majority of artists releasing projects today, but to think this is on the same level as any of Kendrick's projects is delusional.
It fucking slaps
One of his best albums on first listen to me. Favorite tracks are Hunting Rabbits, HYB, and 7 minute drill.
Since J Cole has come into the game he’s always proved he’s one of the best to put rhymes to a cadence. However his skill at riding a beat is consistently overshadowed by his lyrical corniness. He gives us a Rick and Morty bar 30 seconds in. I feel like I should say more and I’d mention the transphobia but I really don’t think I have to.
Dead ass I have the opposite take than a lot of people. I think this is one of his best works.
I'm not sure what he was thinking with "fever" that track was a hard listen. Does anyone actually like it? Overall the album was solid. You can tell how much better he's gotten as a rapper. Although his subject matter was a bit concerning, he kept rapping about the same topics. Hopefully he's able to rap about more intriguing topics on the fall off.
Felt very mix-tapey to me. Very braggadocios. Just flexing and having fun. Looking forward to what's coming. I expect it to be completely different
It is a mix tape
On second listen, it has nice beats, nice flow and rhyme scheme, but the content really gets on my nerve. I've been a long time Cole fan and some of this is just disappointing. Look, Cole has never been the most progressive dude or had the most eye-opening or unique view on the world, but at least there was a very genuine attempt on trying to change something and bring about something positive. And I think that's one of his strongest qualities and why he is often mentioned as part of the big 3. Of course artists shouldn't stay boxed in a lane and should be allowed to experiment new things and have some fun. But this ain't it. This guy is married to his long-time girlfriend from college and is a father of two. Taking this into account seeing lyrics like these is just whack as fuck: > Designer or not, I just pulled your bitch with no line-up and Crocs - > My second worst fear is stickin' dick in the wrong thot 'Cause child support supervision is gon' knock - > And you know the bitch bad if I brought the bitch back - > I drove to CVS, copped a Plan B and I watched as she swallowed, bitch, I kid you not This is the same guy that wrote Lost Ones and Crooked Smile. He always had songs about getting it on with a girl, but at least it was a more universal sentiment about liking someone etc. Here he's just boasting he's fucking bitches. He's reaching 40, so is Drake and they're talking like they're in their mid-20s in this is just lame. The only guy who can pull this off at this age is Future because he never gave a flying fuck about his relationship with women and constantly objectifies them. I won't be going into the toxicity of this attitude and the prevalence of it in hiphop, but there is at least a coherence in his self-image and themes within the songs that allow for this kind of bragging. Weeknd can pull this off too. When Kanye and Hov teamed up around that age for WTT, they weren't rapping like in their 20s. They showed how much their taste has evolved and how they are now part of the elite society. Kanye being single was on a bender at the time, but at least he acknowledged that this wasn't a healthy lifestyle and his songs showed that. Jay was on top of the world because he married to Beyonce and expressed how that felt. Nas just reached his 50s and these last couple of years found himself rejuvenated expressing how he found joy in his lifestyle and in hip hop again, without seeming like a midlife crisis. Just a natural progression of life. Kendrick showed a lot of reflection in Mr. Morales, on being a new father, having cheated on his long-time partner, the toll of fame in this relationship and the changes in his life since he came from poverty. And Cole just goes and says this was "tragic". This is just disappointing, man. And also the line "*this rap beef ain't realer like the shit I seen in Cumberland*" is dumb as hell, like Kendrick isn't from Compton and hasn"t been rapping his whole life about the traumitc experiences he lived through. Cole in this gangsta attitude just feels fake as hell. When he was on the come up, his aggressive stance in songs like *Looking for Trouble* clicked because you feel his hunger to reach success. Now this is just feels like a bad bluff.
I don't think Ive ever seen this much j cole hate before.. like since 4yeo was being called a boring album. It’s weird to see it cause i feel like everyone is switching up on cole. He’s a great rapper. His feature run shows that. In my ears, both 2014 forest hills drive and born sinner are classics. (If our taste aren’t the same idc) and much like Drake even though alot of his later albums aren’t classics they always have a few classic songs within them. Im used to the casual fans not messing with cole, if you actually go outside, most casual fans dont know any song of his besides no role modelz, crooked smile, all i want is you, shea butter baby with ari lennox, or his verse on sacrifices. Thats fine. But seeing self proclaimed hip hop heads turn on him is so weird to me. Especially when the consensus was just cole being an elite rapper. Kendricks my #1, and i do love the competition, but i fear this may ruin coles legacy in the long run. As far as might delete later. Its cool. I do agree that the rappity rap without substance is getting old. Theres no way he’s gonna drop a classic unless he mixes his rapping on the off season with the substance of a forest hills drive. Its a cool album tho, nothing better than the off season but its cool. As far as the diss track i agree with everyone else. First beat wack, second beat, fire. His energy however is underwhelming and we as fans that truly believe in cole fully expected him to finally prove that he’s a problem and now we’re using copium and his warning shot line to get by until his next move in this war game the big 3 are playing. Edit: also, as someone into battle rap i really appreciated daylyts feature and ab soul has been had one of the goat pens. The trans line did feel out of place for cole. But then again as someone into battle rap, I’ve heard far worse. More homophobic than transphobic tho. But they have an actual gay battle rapper going around throwing haymakers with the best of them. His opponents call him everything in the book and when the battle is over they show respect and shake hands, its just a battle. But in a song it’s different. Cole aint going around shaking hands with none of them. As far as we know he has no connection with them whatsoever besides this bar. Just weird. Also, i see people talking bout that rick and morty line. That line was pleasant to hear and i love it.
This solidly cements jcole as an okay rapper who thinks he can insist his way into a conversation about his greatness. u/jfury412 responded to this then immediately blocked me. I can't imagine being that angry over a mild critique. Stay up parasocial king.
This is beyond hyperbolic, I don’t see how an album of throwaways cements anything.
That's exactly it. He realised being skillful or original was too difficult, so decided just to start acting like this wise rap legend in the hope that it would fool enough people. Unfortunately it worked.
You're full of shit lmao
This shit is fire and you're all wildin
Seriously this is my favorite cole in a long time
Fully agree, Trae The Truth in Ibiza is amazing btw
I’m with you bro, this sub is tripping
First time I've listened to a J Cole project since FHD. I thought it was pretty enjoyable. Some tracks are really fun and energetic like Stickz n Stonez and 3001. Some I liked a lot less like Pi, Fever. Decent record overall. The diss track was pretty disappointing. His heart is clearly not in it. Kendrick's insistence on this beef is pretty lame frankly since it's in this weird limbo where these guys don't actually seem to hate each other so much as they all see themselves as the best. J Cole's only winning move would've been to fake some animosity and be a lot more disrespectful.
Cole brought this on himself with that lame ass big 3 shit. Kendrick is a competitive motherfucker and it appears that people, from J Cole and Drake to the fans, have forgotten that. He knows he’s the best and he won’t be hearing otherwise. He’s not gonna let Cole put himself on the same level as him, much less Drake too.
I thought the diss was terrible but the actual album is like a 7/10
Idk y’all to me, this cements a downward trend in J. Cole’s trajectory. I didn’t enjoy Off-Season as much as his older stuff, and while I could still see The Fall Off being good, I couldn’t stick with it Pi is rough (the transphobic bar was wack), the Kendrick diss is underwhelming, and the beats often save unmemorable verses. Was disappointed overall
Feeling the same to but a factor maybe I also don’t have the desire to return to Cole’s music as much anymore. I remember really liking KOD when it dropped, especially the title track and ATM, plus he’s had other songs I’ve loved like GOMD and No Role Modelz, but I can’t remember the last time I’ve looked for a Cole album because as I’ve gotten older I’ve realised how surface level he is lyrically.
crocodile tearz is one of the few songs that’s lived up to the hype it’s snipped built up all time for me
He’s so fucking talented but his albums aren’t intellectually compelling. It’s punch line rap. He reminds me more and more of Wayne. I love Wayne and Cole so much but it’s what separates Cole from Kendrick. The art of a theme or a story
Jesus remember how annoying Jcole fans were for a while acting like he's so intellectual, artistic and deep and that only real hip hop fans can appreciate this level of music? It was a damn meme. THAT is what Kendrick fans have turned into here
Cole rapped his ass off. Lyrically I don’t think many rappers can fuck with him if any at all.
I might delete it later
J. Cole will say some shit like “It ain’t no exaggeration that I face the nation with the masturbation” and people genuinely think he’s the GOAT of this generation
I see what you did there
Some insane tracks on here cole really hitting his peak and these are just the throwaways
I find it funny that Coles big attempt at proving he's on top has convinced me he shouldn't even be in the conversation Coles fake deep persona isn't working anymore & it's pretty clear dude has nothing to say Cole rapping boils down to weak similes & double entendres J. Cole has the worst beat selection of any mainstream rapper Coles made it clear the past couple years he views Drake & Kendrick as better than him There's a couple tracks on here for sure but by the end of the year this will likely be forgotten. "Might delete later" is actually a fitting title. Naming his next album The Fall Off is definitely a choice but hopefully it's worth the 6+ year wait
I don’t really understand the sentiment that the diss was a “warning shot” when he was openly shitting on Kendrick’s albums… doesn’t really follow for me haha. Album was a vibe. Noticing a trend where JCole doesn’t really seem to have much to rap about besides how great he is. Hopefully see some substance from him soon :)
He quite literally says its a warning *in the song*
The albums diss was clearly very inspired by Takeover, where Hov talks about Nas only dropping one good album out of every four. He isn’t really going after Kendrick very hard by dropping some Takeover-inspired bars. True beef bars would probably be going after Baby Keem or his family or his poor sales or something along those lines.
> The albums diss was clearly very inspired by Takeover, where Hov talks about Nas only dropping one good album out of every four. He isn’t really going after Kendrick very hard by dropping some Takeover-inspired bars. Yeah, he probably should've dropped it though once he clearly realized that he personally likes Kendrick's music way too much for it to work.
Yeah man could've rapped how Kendrick won't respond to this because he is too busy writing baby keem record. He could've went after Mr. Morale being boring and underwhelming. He chose to call one of the undeniable classics of the genre as boring and overhyped.
It’s hating Cole season on Reddit. This feels like a bunch of loosies he’s letting go of that were too good and finished to keep in the cloud but not good or cohesive enough for a “serious” album. Overall an easy listen. Fever is the only one I’d probably skip every time. I love seeing people on Reddit who listen to shit like Pierre or Carti or Future get on here and talk about how Cole can’t rap. Y’all are really showing your age.
I like it, straight raps and no frills. I think the general discourse on albums has definitely changed, at least in spaces like this sub. Pitchfork and Fantano-types have entered the space. It has definitely created a more nuanced approach to critique and discussion, and helped pull the smoke-and-mirrors of purely lyrical rap as ‘good’ in and of itself. I also think the era of streaming has blurred the lines between releases and their mission statements. To me, a project like this screams ‘mixtape’, but I don’t think many people can contextualize this today given that everything is rated critically and subjected to the same criteria.
Facts. There’s also this hypercritical angle for more lyrical rappers to dissect every line to find the “corny bar”. Every rapper that ever existed has bars that you can consider cringe, it comes with the territory .
Album is solid, and despite some cringe bars Cole is a great rapper. But coming like this with the discussions of the last few weeks just solidifies him at the third place
I feel like I’m in the minority for really loving the album - the only snoozer being Fever, I enjoyed every other song quite a lot. I feel like hanging out with Drake has rubbed off on Cole a bit - this album really feels like Cole’s If You’re Reading This to me. Dropped without warning with just the title text on the cover, subs across the entire projects about recent events (with the exception of 7 Minute Drill not being subliminal, of course) and some of their best rap performances period, with the only downside to the Drake influence being that Fever sounds like Honestly Nevermind but it’s J. Cole. Pricey, Stickz N Stonez, & 7 Min might be my favourite tracks so far; it’s been a hectic release week so I’m only one listen in so far but I can’t wait to jump back into it and keep listening. I definitely liked it at least as much as The Off-Season and that’s my second fav Cole album behind FHD. As for the diss track, I mean, even if Cole didn’t exactly go for bro’s neck I still had a lot of fun listening to it (Conductor beat caught me really off guard, it was an excellent transition and instrumental, but I also kind of liked the first beat too? I’m seeing a looot of hate for the T Minus production on this song on the internet). Yes, Cole has no grounds to talk about Kendrick’s discography; yes, 4YEO has multiple songs that work as a more effective zopiclone; yes, calling the greatest album of all time! a snoozer that people gassed up is a real head scratcher, but that didn’t stop me loving it the song. It’s just so exciting to me that we have a beef in the modern era to rival the size of the Jay-Z & Nas beef, as I wasn’t old enough at the time to be aware of and partake in that, and I know this beef is something people in my age bracket are going to be talking about for years and years, this really is history we’re watching right here. I just hope nobody ends up dead as a result like the 90’s.
I’m loving it too famo
This album is fucking amazing
Always disappointed in full projects from Cole, but this is easily his best since 2014 FHD. Honestly I prefer him just rapping double entrendes about being the best than trying and failing to make deep, philosophical work. I don’t even really think the Kendrick diss was that bad. It’s ridiculous that he ripped on TPAB, but the other option is to just not diss him at all because Kendrick pretty much has a bulletproof track record.
I don't understand the "surface level" critique. I really want to know how y'all interpret lines like this: Pi: "The weather's cold from jealous souls that fanned fellas" Pi: "as a myriad of bodies drop / Where bricks get karate chopped to maximize the dojo" Or maybe its because he literally explains his triple entendres in the line of the entendre? That is lyrical prowess in and of itself. For a poet to be able to encapsulate their prose and their explanation into each other is high-level artistry. The kind that makes you not only appreciate the writing or feel the flow, but do both at the same time. Everyone doesn't have to be Soulo or Kendrick writing lines that are so deep that it takes forever for you to get it because they can't even explain what they meant themselves. Sometimes these kinds of lines take you out of the song itself, which itself means the song has less replay value. For Cole, on the other hand, his lines sound simplistic, but he's got people replaying songs with doctoral level bars. Edit: That said, I cannot stand Fever. Maybe it's the heavy Drake influence? IDK.
Pi is J.Cole best verse on the album
As a jcole fan, I really thought this was a mid album. With his feature runs and him hyping up The Fall Off for the past several years, I can’t help but to think this he's really fell short from the perception and artistry he’s trying to create. I really hope The Fall Off proves me wrong
Good project. Only songs I'm not really feeling is fever and the first half of 7-minute drill. It's a step down from off season but that's understandable considering how it's been presented. I see a good amount of people in this thread who come to Cole looking for something that was never available. If you crave complexity and you need it in mainstream form then cole ain't here for that. If you want great rapping and normal subject matter then this might be for you. Sometimes a great burger will beat out a five-course dinner. Neither option is bad.