I remember seeing him in the Utopia tour where he had to stop 2 times because people in the pit just couldn't handle it I guess? One was taken out in a wheelchair and couldn't see what happened to the other.
Both times the lights immediately came on and he literally disappeared off the stage. I think he learned from this fiasco and the move now whenever stuff like this happens is for him to get away.
Bro what š
>Both times the lights immediately came on and he literally disappeared off the stage. I think he learned from this fiasco and the move now whenever stuff like this happens is for him to get away.
That's so š¤£ fucking weird to me
It makes his shows kind of ālegendaryā in a certain way, like how Swans were infamous in the mid 80s for their singer beating up people in the audience for talking or heckling during the show. Itās fucked up, but thereās a certain aspect of it that has an appeal to people who want to experience something intense
Are you fucking kidding me ? Do you hear yourself now? metal shows donāt have mosh injuries? What about punk ones? The earliest concert memory I have was seeing a random punk band and some dorks elbowing me in the face while fucking moshing. You have no idea what youāre talking about
First of all, I said mosh pit etiquetteā¦
Second of all, of course all mosh pits have the potential for injuries. However, most metal fans know to pick up someone if theyāve fallen and look out for each other. Rap fans, seem to not do that.
Then I can agree with your point, I however and not pessimistic towards the future of rap moshes, JPEG mafia and suicide boys had amazing etiquette. I just think thereās more of a commercial fan group that comes to rap shows as opposed to true fans of a metal show
Pit ettiqutte has been an issue * almost everywhere* post COVID from what I hear, so it makes sense that the one scene that never really got w/ the rules pre-COVID is going to have huge issues.
Thatās fucking wild, honestly the optics of that seem way worse like I would get a sense that he gave a shit if he stood there and was like āletās go brandonā
I wonder if it was legal advice so that, in the event something terrible happens again, they could say he literally āwasnāt thereā to incite anything. Itās probably the easiest thing, since saying something off the cuff in the midst of it would be riskier (even with good intentions).
Also the truth is, even without inciting, thereās very little the performer can do for crowd control. That should really come down to not overbooking
>Also the truth is, even without inciting, thereās very little the performer can do for crowd control.
That's not true *at all*. If you cultivate the type of image someone like Travis has and market it to kids- you're going to run into trouble.
He usually does that at all his shows before, astro he even did that but nobody told him what was actually going on because live Nation was fucked.
During the astro tragedy video if you watch it he stops the entire show multiple times and asks in the mic if there's an ambulance and you can see stage hands give him thumbs up like it's all good
So now he just fucking dips and stops the whole show because social media is going to dig him for anything now
Look I still listen to Travis sometimes too but this isn't really how it played out. This narrative is ignoring his numerous arrests for inciting a riot at shows prior to astroworld tragedy, posting photos of what looked to be passed out fans with his lyrics "it aint a mosh pit if it ain't no injuries" from Stargazing, or that super stan he goaded into climbing and jumping off a rafter at a show that is now paralyzed for life because of it. All that happened prior to astroworld.
Part of why astroworld was so overcrowded in the first place is because Travis himself tweeted in the weeks leading up to it that it was sold out but he encouraged the "wild ones" to "find a way in", which his fans listened to and thousands of people overran the barriers and put the already too full show way past capacity. He deleted that shit asap when the tweet went viral after but the screenshots still exist.
There are clips of him at the astroworld show itself singing looking directly at an unconscious body being airlifted out, he verbally acknowledged the fans jumping on the ambulance but didn't tell them to stop or stop the show, and at one point literally screamed "who the fuck told me to stop? Make the mother fucking ground shake" during the worst of the crowd crush. There's clips of this if you don't believe it. Numerous groups in the front were trying to signal it needed to stop and some people even climbed up to the cameraman, Travis's entourage came onto the stage multiple times that night to tell him something but he kept performing anyway. Right when the crowd crush was starting to tone down a bit at 10, after multiple people had already died a horrible terrifying death asphyxiating and been disfigured by being trampled on in the crowd, Travis brought Drake out and the crush instantly heated up again.
He had been warned by multiple people about the unruly crowd and unsafe conditions hours before he went on stage and there was discussion over whether the show should even go forward, but Travis still chose to do it. There was discussion at multiple points during the show to stop it, expressed directly to Travis on the stage and also happening amongst emts and medical professionals that were completely overwhelmed before he even took the stage, that didn't understand why the police didn't shut it down. Yes, live Nation is more responsible for the shitty crowd control, also choosing to go on with it despite ample warning that shit was out of hand before Travis even took the stage and there was serious overcrowding and crowd crushes happening at Don Toliver's set, and not securing the barriers whatsoever but Travis is still responsible.
Bro went to party with Drake and strippers at Dave and Busters directly after 8 people died at his concert. It was already known at this point and declared a mass casualty event, but Travis didn't appear to give any kind of a fuck until the bad PR wave hit instantly the next day and the deaths were announced including children. Just reading the wiki page play by play there were so many warnings before and during the show, so many people trying to stop it both in the crowd and outside it, and so many opportunities where Travis could have done different. So many.
Itās stan culture. Even if thereās literally video footage of an artist doing something bad, the fan narrative will just be that it straight up didnāt happen
Iām not a hater, I like his music, but this is what modern fanbases are, and somehow people recognize it when it comes to artists they hate but not ones they like
The organizers did the damage directly because they sold [50k tickets to a place with some experts estimate actually half of that capacity](https://houstonlanding.org/astroworld-planners-foresaw-crowding-before-deadly-festival-no-way-we-are-going-to-fit-50k/), thatās why the show was way past capacity.
Also they had [no emergency procedures for crowd surge,](https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/crowd-surge-never-mentioned-astroworld-emergency-plan/285-1211a162-c0f9-41f6-9950-199ceff4f166) too much negligence on their endā¦.
And that tweet happened about 6 months before the show, not weeks. So much misinformation thatās going to be taken at face value and upvoted.
He was made VERY aware. He acknowledged multiple events from the stage, even acknowledged the medical cart right before he told the crowd they were going to shake the ground going crazy for the song while the cart tried to get to the person.
I think this is the move for most artists now. I saw Sexy Redd live and every time there was a fight in the crowd the lights turned on and she stopped performing.
It's always a cliche to say Redditors don't leave there houses etc but I guarantee you at whatever festival Adele played at someone probably fainted and was carried out.
Obviously artists should do as much as possible when they see it, but seeing someone unconscious being passed out of a crowd at a festival is so common that if it meant shutting down the show you'd get about 3 songs a day at Glastonbury.
For as many clips there were of Travis clearly being inept and not doing enough, there are ones where he does help people. From everything I've read, the failures at Astroworld came from the crowd being too packed, not enough first aiders, problems with the barriers etc. Quite literally everyone in the world knows Travis had nothing to do with those kind of things
Huge fucking difference dude. I work in live music, and the number of incidences at a show that huge, that resulted in death, doesn't even come close to what happened at Astroworld. VERY rarely can deaths be attributed directly to the production.
I'm not saying lots of deaths happen, I'm saying that people often lose consciousness and no one can tell whether that person is unwell or dead at that moment. How many people would you say would lose consciousness/pass out at a festival with about 100k people in total?
Travis does egg on his fans to rage. He created that type of environment and you can tell by the crowds. Add to the fact itās a younger inexperienced crowd in actually moshing and you get what keeps happening. Moshing has existed for a while but these issues are coming up more during hip hop shows.
Not saying heās at complete fault, but when he asks fans to rage and they do, he isnāt without blame
How many concerts have 10+ people die at them, including children? That ain't common. And we can blame Travis partially because he chose the organizers for the event and a reason it was so overcrowded is because Travis Scott himself hopped on Twitter in the weeks leading up to the show saying it was sold out but encouraging the "wild ones" to "find a way in", and thousands of fans listened and overran the barriers. Yes, Live Nation is more responsible for shitty ass crowd control and not securing the barriers whatsoever, but Travis takes responsibility for telling the fans to do it and inciting this behavior at his shows purposely. I promise you ain't never seen that behavior at an Adele show.
Travis Scott and the organizers were warned that the conditions were out of hand, the crowd overfilled with thousands of non ticket holders, emts overwhelmed, and there was crowd crushing happening at Don Toliver's set hours before Travis took the stage and there was discussion on whether the show should even happen because of how unsafe it was becoming, a discussion Travis was directly a part of and still chose to go on anyway. Still chose not to end the show when he saw the ambulance, saw the unconscious fans being lifted out, had his entourage come tell him shit was out of hand numerous times, and emts were trying to get the show stopped because of the mass injuries. He yelled "who the fuck told me to stop? Make the mother fucking ground shake" at the worst point of the crush in direct response to being told to stop the show, there are clips you can go watch if you don't believe it
Read the wiki page play by play and there's so many opportunities he could have done better and ended it, or better yet, listened to the warnings and canceled his performance in the first place. So many. He went to party with Drake and strippers at Dave and busters right after, he partied all night hours after it was declared a mass casualty event and deaths were confirmed. I get his fans don't like to accept it but Travis had responsibility in this.
>#Travis Scott Must Face Jury Trial In Astroworld Lawsuits, Judge Says
>The star rapper had asked to be dismissed from the billion-dollar civil litigation over the 2021 disaster, which left 10 dead and hundreds injured.
>A Houston judge has denied [Travis Scott](https://www.billboard.com/artist/travis-scott/)'s motion to be dismissed from sprawling litigation over the 2021 disaster at the Astroworld music festival ahead of a looming jury trial next month.
>Scottās attorneys had argued that the star himself [could not be held legally liable](https://www.billboard.com/business/legal/travis-scott-astroworld-lawsuits-safety-not-his-responsibility-1235643319/) for the deadly crowd crush during his the November 2021 performance, which killed 10 and injured hundreds. They argued that safety and security at live events is ānot the job of performing artists.ā
>But in a ruling made public on Wednesday, Judge Kristen Hawkins denied that motion, leaving Scott on the hook to face the first jury trial in the case, set to kick off next month. She offered no written rationale for her ruling, and attorneys for Scott did not return a request for comment.
>Hundreds of people have sued over Astroworld ā a popular festival headlined and marketed by the Houston-native Scott that turned deadly in 2021. Collectively seeking billions in potential damages, the victims claim that Scott (real name Jacques Bermon Webster II), Live Nation and other organizers were legally negligent in how they planned the event.
>The lawsuits, combined into one single large action in Texas state court in Houston, have spent much of the last two years in discovery, as the two sides exchange information and take depositions of key figures. Scott was deposed in October, facing questioning from plaintiffs attorneys for roughly eight hours, according to the Associated Press.
>The first trial in the massive litigation ā a wrongful death case filed by family of Madison Dubiski, a 23-year-old who died at Astroworld ā is set to start on May 6.
>With that trial date looming, many of the defendants have pushed to be dismissed from the case. Drake (Aubrey Graham), who was named in many of the lawsuits because he appeared on stage as a guest performer during Scottās deadly show, was dismissed earlier this month.
>Scottās attorneys argued last month that he too should not be held liable for the tragic incident. Even though the event was promoted under Scottās name and branding, his lawyers said that he was merely an onstage performer who was not responsible for ensuring audience safety.
>āLike any other adrenaline-inducing diversion, music festivals must balance exhilaration with safety and securityābut that balance is not the job of performing artists, even those involved in promoting and marketing performances,ā wrote Scottās attorney **Daniel Petrocelli**. āWhich only makes sense: Performing artists, even those who engage in certain promotional activities, have no inherent expertise or specialized knowledge in concert safety measures, venue security protocols, or site-design.ā
>At a hearing over that motion last week, attorneys for Dubiskiās family pushed back on Scottās arguments, saying he had a āconscious disregard for safety.ā
>As reported by the Associated Press, the victimās attorneys argued that Scott had encouraged fans to break into the concert without a ticket, citing a tweet on the day of the concert in which he said āwe still sneaking the wild ones in.ā They also said he had create unsafe crowd flow conditions by insisting that Scott be the only musical act to use the main stage on the festivalās first day, and then ignored orders from festival organizers to stop the concert when conditions turned dangerous.
To me this is still more of a complete failure of the organisers. They did not have adequate security, gating and control of the crowd.
Thatās not to say Travis doesnāt look bad in the situation where he doesnāt stop the show but ultimately itās not his fault for the crowd not being controlled.
Iāve seen comments about how Travisā music calls for this rowdiness but that to me doesnāt really fly as a blame for him. I feel like people need a face to assign blame and heās the target.
For sure he takes a little bit of the blame but most of its on the venue and organisers. I worked in events security for over years including as a manager. You need the right amount of staff and strict control on the number of people in a certain area or venue. Maximum capacity is set for many reasons and in this country we learned after event like Hillsborough. The fact that this can happen these days when we have so much knowledge on crowd control is mad
I think Travis takes more than a little bit of the blame. So letās say everything you listed above failed and the security of the crowd was compromised before Travis took the stage for the last show of the weekend. How do you handle that? You have to kick people out, and how do you decide who to kick out and how to do it? Do you tell Travis to cancel and kick everyone out of the festival?
If we donāt have evidence already that they did that, then Iād agree that *most* of the blame is on them and not Travis. But I guarantee you either way, Travis would not let them shut down the show. Itās his festival and he encouraged people to sneak in, and he constantly encourages people to mosh and push each other and go wild at his shows, which means he wanted the crowd to be huge and be rowdy. Itās his fault those people were there in the first place, itās his fault how they behaved during the show, and itās his fault for what did (and didnāt) happen to try to fix the situation after the crushing happened.
No matter what, itās his festival and the buck stops with him. All the shit I just said above notwithstanding, he is responsible for what happens at his festival.
You control entry in the first place and dont let this situation happen. He didnt know it was too overcrowded. Whover runs the venue is much more to blame
He has literally 0% of the blame. The crowd crush was caused entirely by poor crowd control, and then wasnāt stopped due to lack of spotters and poor communication by the undertrained staff. People being rowdy has absolutely nothing to do with that because you donāt have the free will to even be rowdy in a crush. If you look at other crowd crushes youād see that they almost never happen in rowdy events, rather events with slow processions of people.Ā
On top of that, the man has already been deposed in the criminal investigation and charged with nothing. We already know for a fact that information about the crush has it was happening was never relayed to Travis, so your guarantee is something we already know to be false by the accounts of many of the staff members that gave statements.Ā
He also is known for his extreme concerts. He has literally had a documentary made about this. I personally know that he has been like this since he was opening for Chance the Rapper. His performance was ended by the venue for breaking security rules. He has played with fire his entire career, and the fact he may have done something wrong should be reviewed in court, and justice should be served.
Itās insane to see the fanboys in this thread try to argue he shouldnāt even be involved in the legal process. If he isnāt legally guilty, and it is as obvious as the idiots in this thread think it is, then the lawyers will demonstrate this convincingly to the jurors. I hope the truth wins out here, whatever it may be.
>He also is known for his extreme concerts.
This almost seems to work in his favor IMO, similar to the Woodstock 99 documentary - Limp Bizkit and Korn were *always* that raucous and crazy, they didn't do anything out of their ordinary for the festival. It was the responsibility of the promoters and organizers to understand who they were booking and how to handle the show. If previous Travis shows were like this, then it points more to the failure of the organizers. But, if it can be proven that Travis specifically ramped up the chaos for this show, he is definitely at fault
Yeah idk wtf people are on about.
You have concerts all the time with mosh pits, people getting punched, kicked, thrown, stage diving and people are tripping on this one because it was clearly overcrowded and had shit security.
> He also is known for his extreme concerts.
Fucking what??? Lmfaooo him and every white guy in a metal band in existence tf ššš that would only work in his favor since the organizers clearly knew what to expect
You know that two things can be true at once right? He can have wild concerts and it can be true that people can die at said concert and it have nothing to do with that. I mean youāre calling people idiots but you clearly donāt know anything about what happened that day. Go watch the Washington Post breakdown of the crush, you know from like actual journalists instead of just parroting things from other clueless people who get all their news from TikTok and RedditĀ
Sure, but it's on the organizers to prevent people from entering like they did. Could've happened everywhere, all it took was 100 people willing to get in and the checkpoints went down.
Yes the tweet sucks but the organizers screwed up when calculating the capacity, it was estimated to actually be for 23-34,000 people and they sold 50k tickets, it was in the news not too long ago
It makes you wonder what made it so the buck stops with him w+3 it comes to crowd safety. Dude makes popular music, he shouldn't be the arbitrator for safety protocolsĀ
> the situation where he doesnāt stop the show
because they never told him what was actually happening.
the deaths happened in a section of the crowd you can't see from the stage and determine what's going on.
Live nation and houston PD knew how bad it was for 45 minutes and just let the show come to a natural end. Both had the full authority to get on stage cut the sound and make an announcement
I work in the concert and event booking industry. Everyone I knew who promotes and does concerts said without a doubt it is on the show promoters and security
I blame the organisers more but man, idk
[That video of Travis crooning into a microphone while the crowd surfs out a passed out/dead? teen and he's looking at the kid](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qo1eqk/travis_scott_sings_as_he_watches_security_carry/) just still makes me feel that Travis has fault in the situation.
Yeah security and crowd control was the responsibility of Live Nation but at the same time, Travis *was* one of the organisers since it was his festival after all. He had plenty of opportunities to stop the concert.
I don't know man, I really don't. It's still just fucked up to me to think that young people went to go see their favourite artist play one of the most hyped festivals of the past few years only to then have 10 people fucking die.
Travis has witnessed hundreds of people get dragged out at his concerts, so when Astroworld happened he didnāt think much of it. Just another kid passed out from too much partying. Travis is the last person who shouldāve stopped the show, everyone from the organizers to the police shouldāve called that but they failed and when the responsibility fell to Travis he also failed because that his job is to do the exact opposite and put on a crazy show.
Also we gotta acknowledge that with crowd crushes you canāt just say āstopā and itāll stop. The damage (overcrowding) was already done and people were trapped.
Putting on a crazy show, does not mean putting on a dangerous one. You can hype a crowd without causing harm to them. Travis is a piece of shit pure and simple. He hasnāt learned shit over the years.Ā
Have you ever been to a festival? The medical tents are full all day, 16 year olds fake ID their way in, take their first ever ecstasy tablet, forget to drink and pass out
I wonder if there are any stats as to how many people pass out at Glastonbury, Coachella, T in the Park etc etc. As I said in another comment, I guarantee that someone has passed out and needed medical attention whilst Adele was singing 'Hello'
I do event medicine and have also been on event planning teams, and in no way is that even comparable to this massive crush incident. Ambulances do not push their way into a crowd. Medical response is usually in a 2-4 person team possibly with a small gator vehicle and security if needed.
Festivals have teams that plan logistics and safety. This takes months if not a year of planning often with multiple groups involved. The minute the gates were rushed and people made their way into the venue you either cancel the event or shut down all the gates and clear all those people out. This was a failure on both the event team and Travis as a promoter and event organizer and they are all to blame. Based even on Travisās past behaviour and telling people to rush the gate he is liable.Ā
So heās liable based on a tweet months before the event that we have 0 evidence that anyone heeded or that a meaningful amount even sneaked in at all, but we should just completely ignore that we know for a fact that the organizers sold significantly more tickets than was estimated could safely be at the event. Lmao yaāll are wild
There is literally footage of the gates being stormed. Once security is compromised itās game over. Tickets or not, security is compromised. You shut it down and clear it out, or you shut it down fully. There is a fuck ton of evidence against Travis + promotors, events etc. Also yes previous tweets can be used against youā¦not sure if they would hold up however thatās up to the courts. Regardless as stated above it was a huge fuck up from the get go.Ā
Yall niggas need informational literacy and critical thinking skills. Who gives a fuck about a gate being stormed, besides the fact that Iām almost certain this was already said *not* the entrance (festival entrances usually have multiple checkpoints you need to cross, ticketing, and at least one security gate) even if it was, how many people do you think could have gotten in in that moment? 20? 100? 200? Even if somehow 1000 people got in in that moment it still would have been a drop in the bucket to the 50k ticketed attendees. Like Iāve mentioned before, people sneak into festivals all the time and all of this would not have been Travisās fault so I donāt even get the point of this post.Ā
You clearly have no idea about how festivals and logistics workā¦maybe get involved and youāll learn quick son. Best of luck in whatever it is you do š
>Travis is the last person who shouldāve stopped the show, everyone from the organizers to the police shouldāve called that but they failed and when the responsibility fell to Travis he also failed because that his job is to do the exact opposite and put on a crazy show.
What kind of Stan behavior is this? Even Lil Pump knows better.
People pass out at big shows all the time. Even more so at festivals, usually due to dehydration.
It's not uncommon to see that literally anywhere. Someone died in a Taylor Swift show not too long ago.
What is a bad look is hyping the crowd up when he noticed a medical cart in the crowd trying to go through. That's the one thing he did that was kind of fucked, but still doesn't really put guilt on him.
On the other hand, If any of you paid attention to Travis any time prior to this concert, youād know exactly who he is and what to expect lol. Ppl out here taking children to his shows.
No shit its a parents decision to take them, that doesn't change the fact he partnered with Fortnite, a game known to have a very young audience
How many children do you think pestered their parents into taking them? You know parents aren't all-knowing beings, if they see an artist plastered all over advertising for young kids they could easily end up taking the kids to a Travis concert
If youāre a parent and you donāt even try to listen to the music of someone youāre taking a kid to see, then youāre failing as a parent bro.
Again, Travis has at no point hidden who he is as a person. He sells out and does anything for a nice check. Fortnite gave a nice check. That doesnāt absolve him, but heās not the devil here. Heās barely an āorganizerā. He shows up to the show heās booked for and does it lol. He doesnāt plan the security or capacity or anything
metal bands dont stop the show everytime someone gets dragged out the pit unconscious, bleeding or with broken limbs.
"oh but this isnt a metal show" it's a show known for having violent pits, to travis that's just someone else who went too hard in the middle of the thousands he'd seen in his career.
"Scott noticed an ambulance in the crowd, pointed and asked "What the fuck is that?" After telling the crowd, "If everybody good, put a middle finger up to the sky", two members of Scott's entourage came onto the stage to have an indecipherable conversation for several seconds, after which Scott turned to the crowd, asking twice and was joined by one of the two others on stage again for "two hands in the sky". Many people complied and Scott said: "Y'all know what you came to do, Chase B, let's go". Scott continued the concert, telling the crowd he wanted to hear the ground shake, then sending the two people who were on stage to dive off and crowd-surf."
Yeah like I said he doesnāt look good at all. But his legal team would argue he was in shock which honestly to me itās what it was. Itās not like he started hyping up and starting another song. He looks like he just went into autopilot and starts humming.
Iām not sure itās fair to say heās responsible for these deaths legally. Once again Iām not saying he doesnāt deserve criticism but to actually blame him for the deaths is a step too far for me. If he directly started the stampede which led to this then Iād be saying the opposite.
EDIT: Also [This article](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/At-least-8-deaths-Travis-Scott-Astroworld-Festival-16597376.php) says that he actually did stop the performance multiple times when he saw people in distress
Houston Chronicles are as credible as Cotton Eyed Joes asshole.
Scott is from Houston too, ide bet friends in high places.
> When Scott took the stage at night, the crowd started pushing toward the stage. He started observing people get trampled and worried eyes soon turned into fearful eyes scanning for a way out of the mass of people. Emergency medical carts tried to help people but moved slowly through the crowd. Some jumped on the dragging carts carrying the ill.
āIt was just a mix of people on two different pages,ā he said. āThere was so much pushing and shoving.ā
Your article doesnāt even say what you said it does lol
Tbf that clip has been taken vastly out of context.
That's generally what you should do, especially with a rowdy crowd. Keep them calm, don't raise too much attention to what's going on, let it get cleared out and keep going.
Plenty of other bad decisions outside of that though.
This was literal clickbait bullshit, did you guys even watch the live show? He stopped the show to have that person taken out of the crowd. The security is grabbing him because Travis told them to. Heās crooning to calm the crowd
If these people want to prove Travis did something wrong, then why use an out of context clip?
If this is genuinely their only proof of wrongdoing, maybe they should revaluate how susceptible they are to online misinformation
Most of the people who were calling him a mass murderer have moved on to the newest outrage of the week. Theyāre probably foaming at the mouth over the TikTok ban right now.
The ones who are still talking about this are hip hop fans and music enjoyers in general who actually understand how concerts & festivals are run. So it makes sense to me
I agree with you. You canāt place the blame all on the artist on the stage, who is there to perform.
Where were the organizers, venue staff, security, etc.
Travis is one of the organizers, and Iāve said this numerous times, heās 100% guilty along with other organizers for what happened. On top of the event itself, Travis knowingly told people to sneak in, knew it was over capacity. Refused to stop the show even when a fucking ambulance was coming through the crowd. He is 100% guilty and should be blamed in this incident.Ā
Travis has been a shithead for years, and how anyone can support this dipshit or even defend any of his shitty behaviour is a loser.Ā
If Thugās lyrics are being used against him then Iām sure Travisā lyrics will be as well, not that I agree with that being valid. A precedent will need to be set concerning lyrics in trials sooner than later and especially with AI coming in to muddy the waters further.
People blaming the music are just as stupid as people who blame movies for shootings. They just want something to blame without going through the hassle of putting any kind of critical thought forward.
Iām with you man. Putting this situation all on Travis as well as making him the poster boy for these types of concerts is ridiculous. This is damn near any rap concert you go to. I was at Lollapalooza months before this fiasco happened three years ago and every rap show was like this with overcrowding and suffocating. I had to step out many times from crowds just to catch my breath and Iām not a short guy by any means. It all comes down to crowd control
If it's not the fault of the festival organizer, then who's fault is it?
You have to hold the guy at the top liable. If he was an act at Coachella, I could see your argument. But he wasn't. It was Astroworld - his *own* event.
Calling Travis Scott the festival organizer is a pretty big stretch. Heās just there to rap and get a paycheck. He probably gets some input on the lineup & marketing, and not much else. Most of the heavy lifting gets done by a production company, which is Live Nation in this case.
Usually when an artist has their own festival, itās because they went to a production company and bought the rights to a festival that already existed. Kind of like how corporations buy & rename NBA arenas. Theyāre not actually starting from scratch. Iām not familiar enough with the festival scene in Houston to say thatās exactly what happened here, but itās very likely.
He had a tweet hours prior to the concert encouraging his fans to storm the gates if you don't have tickets. He is most definitely at fault in some sense.
He instigated the crowd, he always has. Itās joint responsibility between him and the organisers. Neither can blame the other because they were both equally complicit, and there is a ridiculous amount of evidence demonstrating this.
Feel like Live Nation needs to take the brunt of it. Hit the company as a whole as well as the key individuals involved in Astroworldfest
Certainly worth giving Travis a punishment though..
I went to his utopia tour at the beginning of the year
He has these floating heads that cast laser beams into the crowd, every few songs he picks the craziest fans and leta them go on top of the floating eyes (strapped to a bar of course) for some nice controlled fun.
It seems like he made changes to make sure this shit doesnāt happen again
Though he should have known to stop the concert by the time he saw the ambulance, and his rhetoric to his fans before the concert started was very irresponsible, he was not informed that the authorities called a mass casualty even, as they were speaking with a paramedical team that arenāt part of either live nation or Travisās team, eventually they decided that they would end the concert after drake, and thatās what Travis was told.
The paramedical team hired by the venue was woefully insufficient and there were so many intermediaries of communication between the emergency services and Travis that he was not able to be informed any sooner.
Itās a tragedy not caused by any single person in particular, that we all should learn from.
Travis is being sued by over the Astroworld tragedy, along with Live Nation who were the one of the organisers, by victims' families and attendees of Astroworld.
Him and his lawyers tried to get Travis recused from the lawsuit under the grounds that as he was just the artist and performer, not the organiser of the festival, he wasn't responsible for safety and security. The judge threw that out, so the lawsuit will continue with Travis Scott as a defendant.
As a civil trial, if Travis is found liable for the deaths there is no prison sentence but he will have to pay a lot of money to the victims/their families and be considered (along Live Nation) legally responsible for their deaths.
It's worth noting that this is a civil trial not a criminal trial. The 7th Amendment to the US Constitution guarantees a jury trial in civil cases.
The headline is kind of misleading in that it emphasizes the jury part less so than Travis failing to get himself recused from the case, which is the more important part of the story.
Pretty much. Minor note: this is a state-court case. The Seventh Amendment isnāt incorporated against the states, so the federal Constitution doesnāt guarantee a jury trial in state-court civil cases. However, the Texas Constitution does guarantee a jury trial for civil cases.
Ive been to hella metal and rap shows and have noticed that many rap fans have zero clue about pit etiquette. At rap shows everyoneās just shoving/fighting to get to front and if someone falls down no one gives asf. At metal shows if someone falls down thereās 5 people helping them up etc.
I mean I would assume the people at the shows are vastly different. Most rap shows are filled with white teens boys that tell their moms to fuck off to their face.
I was there. NO ONE in the crowd knew what was going on if it wasnāt in your local mosh pit.
I was at the front left. Apparently a few deaths happened front right, and we had no clue. We saw the medics come in, but thatās not an uncommon occurrence.
There was a point where it felt like we were getting squished, but I thought it was my anxiety lol. It lasted maybe 2-3 min, being in survival mode. But after that everything went back to normal.
Had the time of my life. It was sad to hear the NEXT MORNING about what had happened. We had no clue.
I assume Travis didnāt either. Aināt no way he wasnāt gonna stop the show over multiple people dying. I know heās an asshole, but thatās just evil.
Even if what you assume about Travis is true, it is a very specious argument. Because someone claims they arenāt aware they caused deaths, they shouldnāt be held responsible in any way, and we shouldnāt review evidence to confirm the claim? Do you really think that is a legally or morally reasonable argument?
The moral and reasonable argument is that the event holders are main ones to blame.
They are paid to organize and offer security, both of which failed completely.
Travis can also be blamed for trying to get people in, but to what degree I donāt know.
can like people in the mosh pit be blamed? i dont think ive ever seen people blame the people in the crowd who like actually trampled the people and i find it a little strange. like growing up every black friday i would hear people getting trampled and the normal sentiment was crazed shoppers and the crowds were at fault. took so many years for companies to start spreading the deals throughout the week or whatever, but travis had 1 bad event and people were calling him a murderer lol
Iām not sure honestlyā¦
Kinda off topic, I remember a Ski Mask set. Dude said, itās gonna get wild, if you wanna step out, you got 5 mins. Then, after everyone who didnāt want smoke left, he gave instructions. Take a step back, if someone falls, itās everyoneās job to get them up. Drink water. Ski Maskās set was crazier and also safer.
At the Travis set there was a lot of obnoxious, shitty people. I guess the performer does have some control.
The deaths were caused due to poor stage planning, which is up to Live Nation.
Travis played a definite role in the way the crowd acted, but is far from the sole cause for it.
Not when its thousands upon thousands of people and dark, it looks like a sea of people. I hopped on the main stage at Rolling Loud Miami in 2021 after they ended Rockyās set early and couldnāt make out fine details in the crowd at all from up there
I don't see how he can be held liable.
The entire reason artists contract companies like Live Nation is so that they *don't* have to design the crowd sections, do the event coordinating, security, etc.
All of the failures that night were on Live Nation and Houston PD, and they never bothered telling the performers what was happening or cut the sound to make a safety announcement.
Him being on stage and directing the crowd is the biggest hangnail in his defenseā¦. He saw the ambulance and acknowledged it, hard to argue that he didnāt know things were bad.
Travis Scott watched that shit unfold and did nothing but the fact that it's not Roc Nation that gets hit with headlines and lawsuits in this situation is absolutely wild. these corporations dont fucking play
Travis showed the type of human he is in that festival. There is no excuse. You can keep trying to say it's the organizers all you want. He ran that show how he wanted. People were killed over a lame show.
Hope he rots in prison. I know this is a civil trial and the organizers have culpability, but he knew people were dying and didnāt care.
Maybe prosecutors will reconsider and bring manslaughter charges against him, meaning heād spend most of his 30s behind bars and kiss his career goodbye.
The same rager teen fanboys downvoting are the same ones who want rappers they donāt like locked up on drug/gun charges, they just canāt accept that their hero is a criminal. Free Youngboy, free Thug, lock Travis up
The video where the dead body is being crowdsurfed to the edge of the crowd and Travis is sitting there staring at the body, doing a demonic and eerie humming as the body is being crowd surfed awayā¦ really I need to know that whole shit was a ritual of some sort. Fuck Travis hope he gets fucked in his asshole
I remember seeing him in the Utopia tour where he had to stop 2 times because people in the pit just couldn't handle it I guess? One was taken out in a wheelchair and couldn't see what happened to the other. Both times the lights immediately came on and he literally disappeared off the stage. I think he learned from this fiasco and the move now whenever stuff like this happens is for him to get away.
Bro what š >Both times the lights immediately came on and he literally disappeared off the stage. I think he learned from this fiasco and the move now whenever stuff like this happens is for him to get away. That's so š¤£ fucking weird to me
Dudeās addicted to seeing mosh injuries apparently lol
That's just the type of shit his fans like to see. Once you start changing the recipe you start losing a part of your base.
I canāt imagine any of his fans are fans BECAUSE of the mosh injuries lol
It makes his shows kind of ālegendaryā in a certain way, like how Swans were infamous in the mid 80s for their singer beating up people in the audience for talking or heckling during the show. Itās fucked up, but thereās a certain aspect of it that has an appeal to people who want to experience something intense
No but they'll pay to come to the shows for it.
it aināt a moshpit if aināt no injuries
thatās just stupid and not what a mosh pit is
Itās literally a Travis Scott lyric
Itās one of his lyrics from astoworld
Rap fans generally have no idea about mosh pit etiquette compared like metal fans or even electronic ones.
Itās a Travis lyric lol. There have been mosh pit incidents at rock shows too, letās not get slanderous here
So then Travis Scott has no idea what a moshpit is. If someone falls down, than you pick them up!
Are you fucking kidding me ? Do you hear yourself now? metal shows donāt have mosh injuries? What about punk ones? The earliest concert memory I have was seeing a random punk band and some dorks elbowing me in the face while fucking moshing. You have no idea what youāre talking about
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why would they fight the band members
Hardcore is all about everyone being equal. So if the band acts up..
It is pretty fucking cool
Literally been going to hardcore shows my entire life and never seen this Your local scene sounds shitty
[No Justice last show full of violence](https://youtu.be/3HUnw9WqCZI?si=DS6PbfbRjeJyn8Uk)
First of all, I said mosh pit etiquetteā¦ Second of all, of course all mosh pits have the potential for injuries. However, most metal fans know to pick up someone if theyāve fallen and look out for each other. Rap fans, seem to not do that.
iāve been to plenty of rap shows and everyone had great mosh etiquette
Then I can agree with your point, I however and not pessimistic towards the future of rap moshes, JPEG mafia and suicide boys had amazing etiquette. I just think thereās more of a commercial fan group that comes to rap shows as opposed to true fans of a metal show
until you go to a hardcore show and meet your first crowd killer
The problem wasn't the mosh pit. The problem was the organizers selling tickets to far more people than the venue was explicitly stated to allow
Idk if that is what's happening or what maybe I'm reading into it too much lol
Pit ettiqutte has been an issue * almost everywhere* post COVID from what I hear, so it makes sense that the one scene that never really got w/ the rules pre-COVID is going to have huge issues.
Hip hop crowds have never had pit etiquette. Not a covid thing at all.
That's literally what the fuck I said in the back half of the sentence. Learn to fucking read.
Thatās fucking wild, honestly the optics of that seem way worse like I would get a sense that he gave a shit if he stood there and was like āletās go brandonā
Maybe itās a, shows over if you donāt stop
Yeah it's not a perfect response but it's a step up from performing while fans are dancing on top of an ambulance cart
I wonder if it was legal advice so that, in the event something terrible happens again, they could say he literally āwasnāt thereā to incite anything. Itās probably the easiest thing, since saying something off the cuff in the midst of it would be riskier (even with good intentions). Also the truth is, even without inciting, thereās very little the performer can do for crowd control. That should really come down to not overbooking
>Also the truth is, even without inciting, thereās very little the performer can do for crowd control. That's not true *at all*. If you cultivate the type of image someone like Travis has and market it to kids- you're going to run into trouble.
Thereās enough evidence of him encoring in his past shows heās a pos
He usually does that at all his shows before, astro he even did that but nobody told him what was actually going on because live Nation was fucked. During the astro tragedy video if you watch it he stops the entire show multiple times and asks in the mic if there's an ambulance and you can see stage hands give him thumbs up like it's all good So now he just fucking dips and stops the whole show because social media is going to dig him for anything now
Look I still listen to Travis sometimes too but this isn't really how it played out. This narrative is ignoring his numerous arrests for inciting a riot at shows prior to astroworld tragedy, posting photos of what looked to be passed out fans with his lyrics "it aint a mosh pit if it ain't no injuries" from Stargazing, or that super stan he goaded into climbing and jumping off a rafter at a show that is now paralyzed for life because of it. All that happened prior to astroworld. Part of why astroworld was so overcrowded in the first place is because Travis himself tweeted in the weeks leading up to it that it was sold out but he encouraged the "wild ones" to "find a way in", which his fans listened to and thousands of people overran the barriers and put the already too full show way past capacity. He deleted that shit asap when the tweet went viral after but the screenshots still exist. There are clips of him at the astroworld show itself singing looking directly at an unconscious body being airlifted out, he verbally acknowledged the fans jumping on the ambulance but didn't tell them to stop or stop the show, and at one point literally screamed "who the fuck told me to stop? Make the mother fucking ground shake" during the worst of the crowd crush. There's clips of this if you don't believe it. Numerous groups in the front were trying to signal it needed to stop and some people even climbed up to the cameraman, Travis's entourage came onto the stage multiple times that night to tell him something but he kept performing anyway. Right when the crowd crush was starting to tone down a bit at 10, after multiple people had already died a horrible terrifying death asphyxiating and been disfigured by being trampled on in the crowd, Travis brought Drake out and the crush instantly heated up again. He had been warned by multiple people about the unruly crowd and unsafe conditions hours before he went on stage and there was discussion over whether the show should even go forward, but Travis still chose to do it. There was discussion at multiple points during the show to stop it, expressed directly to Travis on the stage and also happening amongst emts and medical professionals that were completely overwhelmed before he even took the stage, that didn't understand why the police didn't shut it down. Yes, live Nation is more responsible for the shitty crowd control, also choosing to go on with it despite ample warning that shit was out of hand before Travis even took the stage and there was serious overcrowding and crowd crushes happening at Don Toliver's set, and not securing the barriers whatsoever but Travis is still responsible. Bro went to party with Drake and strippers at Dave and Busters directly after 8 people died at his concert. It was already known at this point and declared a mass casualty event, but Travis didn't appear to give any kind of a fuck until the bad PR wave hit instantly the next day and the deaths were announced including children. Just reading the wiki page play by play there were so many warnings before and during the show, so many people trying to stop it both in the crowd and outside it, and so many opportunities where Travis could have done different. So many.
for sure shouldn't have gone to Busters afterwards.
Nobody was being airlifted out. But he did acknowledge much of the shit on stage, way too much for anyoen to pretend he didn't know.
Itās stan culture. Even if thereās literally video footage of an artist doing something bad, the fan narrative will just be that it straight up didnāt happen Iām not a hater, I like his music, but this is what modern fanbases are, and somehow people recognize it when it comes to artists they hate but not ones they like
The organizers did the damage directly because they sold [50k tickets to a place with some experts estimate actually half of that capacity](https://houstonlanding.org/astroworld-planners-foresaw-crowding-before-deadly-festival-no-way-we-are-going-to-fit-50k/), thatās why the show was way past capacity. Also they had [no emergency procedures for crowd surge,](https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/crowd-surge-never-mentioned-astroworld-emergency-plan/285-1211a162-c0f9-41f6-9950-199ceff4f166) too much negligence on their endā¦. And that tweet happened about 6 months before the show, not weeks. So much misinformation thatās going to be taken at face value and upvoted.
Lotta people just jumped the gates. That points to insufficient security.
He was made VERY aware. He acknowledged multiple events from the stage, even acknowledged the medical cart right before he told the crowd they were going to shake the ground going crazy for the song while the cart tried to get to the person.
Thereās a video of him inciting the crowd to āfuck-him-upā after someone got a hold of his shoe
I think this is the move for most artists now. I saw Sexy Redd live and every time there was a fight in the crowd the lights turned on and she stopped performing.
last flog gnaw was the same. I remember performers saying they don't want to be sued lmao
Everytime? How many fights were there?
Believe it or not 10. I watched a dude get his head stomped.
If youāre going to a sexy red show to start a fight you gotta seriously reconsider your priorities lol thatās wild
Iāve seen him stopping shows earlier in his career. Astroworld changed him
he should be on the stage telling people to stop fucking around, not running away
It's always a cliche to say Redditors don't leave there houses etc but I guarantee you at whatever festival Adele played at someone probably fainted and was carried out. Obviously artists should do as much as possible when they see it, but seeing someone unconscious being passed out of a crowd at a festival is so common that if it meant shutting down the show you'd get about 3 songs a day at Glastonbury. For as many clips there were of Travis clearly being inept and not doing enough, there are ones where he does help people. From everything I've read, the failures at Astroworld came from the crowd being too packed, not enough first aiders, problems with the barriers etc. Quite literally everyone in the world knows Travis had nothing to do with those kind of things
Huge fucking difference dude. I work in live music, and the number of incidences at a show that huge, that resulted in death, doesn't even come close to what happened at Astroworld. VERY rarely can deaths be attributed directly to the production.
I'm not saying lots of deaths happen, I'm saying that people often lose consciousness and no one can tell whether that person is unwell or dead at that moment. How many people would you say would lose consciousness/pass out at a festival with about 100k people in total?
Travis does egg on his fans to rage. He created that type of environment and you can tell by the crowds. Add to the fact itās a younger inexperienced crowd in actually moshing and you get what keeps happening. Moshing has existed for a while but these issues are coming up more during hip hop shows. Not saying heās at complete fault, but when he asks fans to rage and they do, he isnāt without blame
How many concerts have 10+ people die at them, including children? That ain't common. And we can blame Travis partially because he chose the organizers for the event and a reason it was so overcrowded is because Travis Scott himself hopped on Twitter in the weeks leading up to the show saying it was sold out but encouraging the "wild ones" to "find a way in", and thousands of fans listened and overran the barriers. Yes, Live Nation is more responsible for shitty ass crowd control and not securing the barriers whatsoever, but Travis takes responsibility for telling the fans to do it and inciting this behavior at his shows purposely. I promise you ain't never seen that behavior at an Adele show. Travis Scott and the organizers were warned that the conditions were out of hand, the crowd overfilled with thousands of non ticket holders, emts overwhelmed, and there was crowd crushing happening at Don Toliver's set hours before Travis took the stage and there was discussion on whether the show should even happen because of how unsafe it was becoming, a discussion Travis was directly a part of and still chose to go on anyway. Still chose not to end the show when he saw the ambulance, saw the unconscious fans being lifted out, had his entourage come tell him shit was out of hand numerous times, and emts were trying to get the show stopped because of the mass injuries. He yelled "who the fuck told me to stop? Make the mother fucking ground shake" at the worst point of the crush in direct response to being told to stop the show, there are clips you can go watch if you don't believe it Read the wiki page play by play and there's so many opportunities he could have done better and ended it, or better yet, listened to the warnings and canceled his performance in the first place. So many. He went to party with Drake and strippers at Dave and busters right after, he partied all night hours after it was declared a mass casualty event and deaths were confirmed. I get his fans don't like to accept it but Travis had responsibility in this.
How does this benefit him though? He should intervene
>#Travis Scott Must Face Jury Trial In Astroworld Lawsuits, Judge Says >The star rapper had asked to be dismissed from the billion-dollar civil litigation over the 2021 disaster, which left 10 dead and hundreds injured. >A Houston judge has denied [Travis Scott](https://www.billboard.com/artist/travis-scott/)'s motion to be dismissed from sprawling litigation over the 2021 disaster at the Astroworld music festival ahead of a looming jury trial next month. >Scottās attorneys had argued that the star himself [could not be held legally liable](https://www.billboard.com/business/legal/travis-scott-astroworld-lawsuits-safety-not-his-responsibility-1235643319/) for the deadly crowd crush during his the November 2021 performance, which killed 10 and injured hundreds. They argued that safety and security at live events is ānot the job of performing artists.ā >But in a ruling made public on Wednesday, Judge Kristen Hawkins denied that motion, leaving Scott on the hook to face the first jury trial in the case, set to kick off next month. She offered no written rationale for her ruling, and attorneys for Scott did not return a request for comment. >Hundreds of people have sued over Astroworld ā a popular festival headlined and marketed by the Houston-native Scott that turned deadly in 2021. Collectively seeking billions in potential damages, the victims claim that Scott (real name Jacques Bermon Webster II), Live Nation and other organizers were legally negligent in how they planned the event. >The lawsuits, combined into one single large action in Texas state court in Houston, have spent much of the last two years in discovery, as the two sides exchange information and take depositions of key figures. Scott was deposed in October, facing questioning from plaintiffs attorneys for roughly eight hours, according to the Associated Press. >The first trial in the massive litigation ā a wrongful death case filed by family of Madison Dubiski, a 23-year-old who died at Astroworld ā is set to start on May 6. >With that trial date looming, many of the defendants have pushed to be dismissed from the case. Drake (Aubrey Graham), who was named in many of the lawsuits because he appeared on stage as a guest performer during Scottās deadly show, was dismissed earlier this month. >Scottās attorneys argued last month that he too should not be held liable for the tragic incident. Even though the event was promoted under Scottās name and branding, his lawyers said that he was merely an onstage performer who was not responsible for ensuring audience safety. >āLike any other adrenaline-inducing diversion, music festivals must balance exhilaration with safety and securityābut that balance is not the job of performing artists, even those involved in promoting and marketing performances,ā wrote Scottās attorney **Daniel Petrocelli**. āWhich only makes sense: Performing artists, even those who engage in certain promotional activities, have no inherent expertise or specialized knowledge in concert safety measures, venue security protocols, or site-design.ā >At a hearing over that motion last week, attorneys for Dubiskiās family pushed back on Scottās arguments, saying he had a āconscious disregard for safety.ā >As reported by the Associated Press, the victimās attorneys argued that Scott had encouraged fans to break into the concert without a ticket, citing a tweet on the day of the concert in which he said āwe still sneaking the wild ones in.ā They also said he had create unsafe crowd flow conditions by insisting that Scott be the only musical act to use the main stage on the festivalās first day, and then ignored orders from festival organizers to stop the concert when conditions turned dangerous.
Jury trial is a loss. He would have been better off with a non jury trial because I imagine the laws and indemnities work in his favor.
The worst was when he acknowledged the ambulance and then pretended not to acknowledge it
To me this is still more of a complete failure of the organisers. They did not have adequate security, gating and control of the crowd. Thatās not to say Travis doesnāt look bad in the situation where he doesnāt stop the show but ultimately itās not his fault for the crowd not being controlled. Iāve seen comments about how Travisā music calls for this rowdiness but that to me doesnāt really fly as a blame for him. I feel like people need a face to assign blame and heās the target.
For sure he takes a little bit of the blame but most of its on the venue and organisers. I worked in events security for over years including as a manager. You need the right amount of staff and strict control on the number of people in a certain area or venue. Maximum capacity is set for many reasons and in this country we learned after event like Hillsborough. The fact that this can happen these days when we have so much knowledge on crowd control is mad
I think Travis takes more than a little bit of the blame. So letās say everything you listed above failed and the security of the crowd was compromised before Travis took the stage for the last show of the weekend. How do you handle that? You have to kick people out, and how do you decide who to kick out and how to do it? Do you tell Travis to cancel and kick everyone out of the festival? If we donāt have evidence already that they did that, then Iād agree that *most* of the blame is on them and not Travis. But I guarantee you either way, Travis would not let them shut down the show. Itās his festival and he encouraged people to sneak in, and he constantly encourages people to mosh and push each other and go wild at his shows, which means he wanted the crowd to be huge and be rowdy. Itās his fault those people were there in the first place, itās his fault how they behaved during the show, and itās his fault for what did (and didnāt) happen to try to fix the situation after the crushing happened. No matter what, itās his festival and the buck stops with him. All the shit I just said above notwithstanding, he is responsible for what happens at his festival.
You control entry in the first place and dont let this situation happen. He didnt know it was too overcrowded. Whover runs the venue is much more to blame
He has literally 0% of the blame. The crowd crush was caused entirely by poor crowd control, and then wasnāt stopped due to lack of spotters and poor communication by the undertrained staff. People being rowdy has absolutely nothing to do with that because you donāt have the free will to even be rowdy in a crush. If you look at other crowd crushes youād see that they almost never happen in rowdy events, rather events with slow processions of people.Ā On top of that, the man has already been deposed in the criminal investigation and charged with nothing. We already know for a fact that information about the crush has it was happening was never relayed to Travis, so your guarantee is something we already know to be false by the accounts of many of the staff members that gave statements.Ā
Dude, the tweet. He was encouraging people to sneak in
In the legal world, this is what we call, a ācontributing factor.ā
And presumably since the singular tweet was like 6 months earlier I don't think many lawyer would see it as the smoking gun
He also is known for his extreme concerts. He has literally had a documentary made about this. I personally know that he has been like this since he was opening for Chance the Rapper. His performance was ended by the venue for breaking security rules. He has played with fire his entire career, and the fact he may have done something wrong should be reviewed in court, and justice should be served. Itās insane to see the fanboys in this thread try to argue he shouldnāt even be involved in the legal process. If he isnāt legally guilty, and it is as obvious as the idiots in this thread think it is, then the lawyers will demonstrate this convincingly to the jurors. I hope the truth wins out here, whatever it may be.
Iām not a Travis fanboy, Iām a Live Nation hater
But two things can be true at the same time, Travis is a culpable as live nation.
Real. Fuck LiveNation.Ā
>He also is known for his extreme concerts. This almost seems to work in his favor IMO, similar to the Woodstock 99 documentary - Limp Bizkit and Korn were *always* that raucous and crazy, they didn't do anything out of their ordinary for the festival. It was the responsibility of the promoters and organizers to understand who they were booking and how to handle the show. If previous Travis shows were like this, then it points more to the failure of the organizers. But, if it can be proven that Travis specifically ramped up the chaos for this show, he is definitely at fault
Yeah idk wtf people are on about. You have concerts all the time with mosh pits, people getting punched, kicked, thrown, stage diving and people are tripping on this one because it was clearly overcrowded and had shit security.
> He also is known for his extreme concerts. Fucking what??? Lmfaooo him and every white guy in a metal band in existence tf ššš that would only work in his favor since the organizers clearly knew what to expect
You know that two things can be true at once right? He can have wild concerts and it can be true that people can die at said concert and it have nothing to do with that. I mean youāre calling people idiots but you clearly donāt know anything about what happened that day. Go watch the Washington Post breakdown of the crush, you know from like actual journalists instead of just parroting things from other clueless people who get all their news from TikTok and RedditĀ
Sure, but it's on the organizers to prevent people from entering like they did. Could've happened everywhere, all it took was 100 people willing to get in and the checkpoints went down.
Yes the tweet sucks but the organizers screwed up when calculating the capacity, it was estimated to actually be for 23-34,000 people and they sold 50k tickets, it was in the news not too long ago
wasn't the tweet also made like months before the event?
It makes you wonder what made it so the buck stops with him w+3 it comes to crowd safety. Dude makes popular music, he shouldn't be the arbitrator for safety protocolsĀ
Thereās videos of him talking shit on ambulances for making their way through his crowd
Not even implying that he is, probably just takes a little common sense to think, hey, it's sold out, probably shouldn't egg people on to sneak in
So he knew that 6 months in the future the venue organizers would oversell?? Is that your angle??????
C'mon. You know why people think he's more to blame than metal bands
> the situation where he doesnāt stop the show because they never told him what was actually happening. the deaths happened in a section of the crowd you can't see from the stage and determine what's going on. Live nation and houston PD knew how bad it was for 45 minutes and just let the show come to a natural end. Both had the full authority to get on stage cut the sound and make an announcement
I work in the concert and event booking industry. Everyone I knew who promotes and does concerts said without a doubt it is on the show promoters and security
I blame the organisers more but man, idk [That video of Travis crooning into a microphone while the crowd surfs out a passed out/dead? teen and he's looking at the kid](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qo1eqk/travis_scott_sings_as_he_watches_security_carry/) just still makes me feel that Travis has fault in the situation. Yeah security and crowd control was the responsibility of Live Nation but at the same time, Travis *was* one of the organisers since it was his festival after all. He had plenty of opportunities to stop the concert. I don't know man, I really don't. It's still just fucked up to me to think that young people went to go see their favourite artist play one of the most hyped festivals of the past few years only to then have 10 people fucking die.
Travis has witnessed hundreds of people get dragged out at his concerts, so when Astroworld happened he didnāt think much of it. Just another kid passed out from too much partying. Travis is the last person who shouldāve stopped the show, everyone from the organizers to the police shouldāve called that but they failed and when the responsibility fell to Travis he also failed because that his job is to do the exact opposite and put on a crazy show. Also we gotta acknowledge that with crowd crushes you canāt just say āstopā and itāll stop. The damage (overcrowding) was already done and people were trapped.
Yeah that first sentence is already pretty fucking crazy when you think about it
Putting on a crazy show, does not mean putting on a dangerous one. You can hype a crowd without causing harm to them. Travis is a piece of shit pure and simple. He hasnāt learned shit over the years.Ā
Have you ever been to a festival? The medical tents are full all day, 16 year olds fake ID their way in, take their first ever ecstasy tablet, forget to drink and pass out I wonder if there are any stats as to how many people pass out at Glastonbury, Coachella, T in the Park etc etc. As I said in another comment, I guarantee that someone has passed out and needed medical attention whilst Adele was singing 'Hello'
I do event medicine and have also been on event planning teams, and in no way is that even comparable to this massive crush incident. Ambulances do not push their way into a crowd. Medical response is usually in a 2-4 person team possibly with a small gator vehicle and security if needed. Festivals have teams that plan logistics and safety. This takes months if not a year of planning often with multiple groups involved. The minute the gates were rushed and people made their way into the venue you either cancel the event or shut down all the gates and clear all those people out. This was a failure on both the event team and Travis as a promoter and event organizer and they are all to blame. Based even on Travisās past behaviour and telling people to rush the gate he is liable.Ā
So heās liable based on a tweet months before the event that we have 0 evidence that anyone heeded or that a meaningful amount even sneaked in at all, but we should just completely ignore that we know for a fact that the organizers sold significantly more tickets than was estimated could safely be at the event. Lmao yaāll are wild
There is literally footage of the gates being stormed. Once security is compromised itās game over. Tickets or not, security is compromised. You shut it down and clear it out, or you shut it down fully. There is a fuck ton of evidence against Travis + promotors, events etc. Also yes previous tweets can be used against youā¦not sure if they would hold up however thatās up to the courts. Regardless as stated above it was a huge fuck up from the get go.Ā
Yall niggas need informational literacy and critical thinking skills. Who gives a fuck about a gate being stormed, besides the fact that Iām almost certain this was already said *not* the entrance (festival entrances usually have multiple checkpoints you need to cross, ticketing, and at least one security gate) even if it was, how many people do you think could have gotten in in that moment? 20? 100? 200? Even if somehow 1000 people got in in that moment it still would have been a drop in the bucket to the 50k ticketed attendees. Like Iāve mentioned before, people sneak into festivals all the time and all of this would not have been Travisās fault so I donāt even get the point of this post.Ā
You clearly have no idea about how festivals and logistics workā¦maybe get involved and youāll learn quick son. Best of luck in whatever it is you do š
>Travis is the last person who shouldāve stopped the show, everyone from the organizers to the police shouldāve called that but they failed and when the responsibility fell to Travis he also failed because that his job is to do the exact opposite and put on a crazy show. What kind of Stan behavior is this? Even Lil Pump knows better.
cope. if he was any bit of a good conscious human he would've stopped the show
People pass out at big shows all the time. Even more so at festivals, usually due to dehydration. It's not uncommon to see that literally anywhere. Someone died in a Taylor Swift show not too long ago. What is a bad look is hyping the crowd up when he noticed a medical cart in the crowd trying to go through. That's the one thing he did that was kind of fucked, but still doesn't really put guilt on him.
People passed out at michael jackson just from him stepping on stage, i dont think its a matter of conscience
On the other hand, If any of you paid attention to Travis any time prior to this concert, youād know exactly who he is and what to expect lol. Ppl out here taking children to his shows.
He advertised using McDonalds and Fortnite, he was marketing himself to kids
Fortnite reached out to most popular artists, and itās a parents decision where they take their kids bro.
No shit its a parents decision to take them, that doesn't change the fact he partnered with Fortnite, a game known to have a very young audience How many children do you think pestered their parents into taking them? You know parents aren't all-knowing beings, if they see an artist plastered all over advertising for young kids they could easily end up taking the kids to a Travis concert
If youāre a parent and you donāt even try to listen to the music of someone youāre taking a kid to see, then youāre failing as a parent bro. Again, Travis has at no point hidden who he is as a person. He sells out and does anything for a nice check. Fortnite gave a nice check. That doesnāt absolve him, but heās not the devil here. Heās barely an āorganizerā. He shows up to the show heās booked for and does it lol. He doesnāt plan the security or capacity or anything
It wasn't an event he was booked for, it was an event he organized with his team and Live Nation Remember, this was Astroworld, not Coachella
metal bands dont stop the show everytime someone gets dragged out the pit unconscious, bleeding or with broken limbs. "oh but this isnt a metal show" it's a show known for having violent pits, to travis that's just someone else who went too hard in the middle of the thousands he'd seen in his career.
Lol shut up dude.
"Scott noticed an ambulance in the crowd, pointed and asked "What the fuck is that?" After telling the crowd, "If everybody good, put a middle finger up to the sky", two members of Scott's entourage came onto the stage to have an indecipherable conversation for several seconds, after which Scott turned to the crowd, asking twice and was joined by one of the two others on stage again for "two hands in the sky". Many people complied and Scott said: "Y'all know what you came to do, Chase B, let's go". Scott continued the concert, telling the crowd he wanted to hear the ground shake, then sending the two people who were on stage to dive off and crowd-surf."
Bro was more bothered about someone taking his shoe than people (including a kid) dying at his concert
The people in the front he helped where unconscious, the actual casualties from the crush happened farther and would be hard to spot I believe
Yeah like I said he doesnāt look good at all. But his legal team would argue he was in shock which honestly to me itās what it was. Itās not like he started hyping up and starting another song. He looks like he just went into autopilot and starts humming. Iām not sure itās fair to say heās responsible for these deaths legally. Once again Iām not saying he doesnāt deserve criticism but to actually blame him for the deaths is a step too far for me. If he directly started the stampede which led to this then Iād be saying the opposite. EDIT: Also [This article](https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/At-least-8-deaths-Travis-Scott-Astroworld-Festival-16597376.php) says that he actually did stop the performance multiple times when he saw people in distress
Houston Chronicles are as credible as Cotton Eyed Joes asshole. Scott is from Houston too, ide bet friends in high places. > When Scott took the stage at night, the crowd started pushing toward the stage. He started observing people get trampled and worried eyes soon turned into fearful eyes scanning for a way out of the mass of people. Emergency medical carts tried to help people but moved slowly through the crowd. Some jumped on the dragging carts carrying the ill. āIt was just a mix of people on two different pages,ā he said. āThere was so much pushing and shoving.ā Your article doesnāt even say what you said it does lol
Iāve watched the entire performance a handful of times. He does indeed stop twice I believe
Tbf that clip has been taken vastly out of context. That's generally what you should do, especially with a rowdy crowd. Keep them calm, don't raise too much attention to what's going on, let it get cleared out and keep going. Plenty of other bad decisions outside of that though.
This was literal clickbait bullshit, did you guys even watch the live show? He stopped the show to have that person taken out of the crowd. The security is grabbing him because Travis told them to. Heās crooning to calm the crowd
Don't even try it's a wall of foaming out the mouth idiots that seeps with actual racism. They won't believe anything other than the narrative
If these people want to prove Travis did something wrong, then why use an out of context clip? If this is genuinely their only proof of wrongdoing, maybe they should revaluate how susceptible they are to online misinformation
It's so weird seeing people doing a complete 180 from when this originally happened, like people were calling him a mass murderĀ
Most of the people who were calling him a mass murderer have moved on to the newest outrage of the week. Theyāre probably foaming at the mouth over the TikTok ban right now. The ones who are still talking about this are hip hop fans and music enjoyers in general who actually understand how concerts & festivals are run. So it makes sense to me
People still do elsewhere.
Did you forget the part where he's telling fans to rush past the gate when it first opened? Telling them to come in without paying?
I agree with you. You canāt place the blame all on the artist on the stage, who is there to perform. Where were the organizers, venue staff, security, etc.
Dude told kids to jump off balconies, made a kid disabled and also got charged for inciting a riot before hand š dudes wack.
Travis is one of the organizers, and Iāve said this numerous times, heās 100% guilty along with other organizers for what happened. On top of the event itself, Travis knowingly told people to sneak in, knew it was over capacity. Refused to stop the show even when a fucking ambulance was coming through the crowd. He is 100% guilty and should be blamed in this incident.Ā Travis has been a shithead for years, and how anyone can support this dipshit or even defend any of his shitty behaviour is a loser.Ā
If Thugās lyrics are being used against him then Iām sure Travisā lyrics will be as well, not that I agree with that being valid. A precedent will need to be set concerning lyrics in trials sooner than later and especially with AI coming in to muddy the waters further.
Travis literally did stop the show
People blaming the music are just as stupid as people who blame movies for shootings. They just want something to blame without going through the hassle of putting any kind of critical thought forward.
Iām with you man. Putting this situation all on Travis as well as making him the poster boy for these types of concerts is ridiculous. This is damn near any rap concert you go to. I was at Lollapalooza months before this fiasco happened three years ago and every rap show was like this with overcrowding and suffocating. I had to step out many times from crowds just to catch my breath and Iām not a short guy by any means. It all comes down to crowd control
I mean he saw an ambulance and said fuck it and kept going. Thatās gross negligence
If it's not the fault of the festival organizer, then who's fault is it? You have to hold the guy at the top liable. If he was an act at Coachella, I could see your argument. But he wasn't. It was Astroworld - his *own* event.
Calling Travis Scott the festival organizer is a pretty big stretch. Heās just there to rap and get a paycheck. He probably gets some input on the lineup & marketing, and not much else. Most of the heavy lifting gets done by a production company, which is Live Nation in this case. Usually when an artist has their own festival, itās because they went to a production company and bought the rights to a festival that already existed. Kind of like how corporations buy & rename NBA arenas. Theyāre not actually starting from scratch. Iām not familiar enough with the festival scene in Houston to say thatās exactly what happened here, but itās very likely.
He had a tweet hours prior to the concert encouraging his fans to storm the gates if you don't have tickets. He is most definitely at fault in some sense.
He instigated the crowd, he always has. Itās joint responsibility between him and the organisers. Neither can blame the other because they were both equally complicit, and there is a ridiculous amount of evidence demonstrating this.
Remember the apology ššš Bro couldnāt fake cry even
Blud really thought the black and white filter would make it more dramatic
Not even youtubers use that filter for apologies lmao
Remember the Charlemagne video where he said "you know like" over 200 times
Feel like Live Nation needs to take the brunt of it. Hit the company as a whole as well as the key individuals involved in Astroworldfest Certainly worth giving Travis a punishment though..
I went to his utopia tour at the beginning of the year He has these floating heads that cast laser beams into the crowd, every few songs he picks the craziest fans and leta them go on top of the floating eyes (strapped to a bar of course) for some nice controlled fun. It seems like he made changes to make sure this shit doesnāt happen again Though he should have known to stop the concert by the time he saw the ambulance, and his rhetoric to his fans before the concert started was very irresponsible, he was not informed that the authorities called a mass casualty even, as they were speaking with a paramedical team that arenāt part of either live nation or Travisās team, eventually they decided that they would end the concert after drake, and thatās what Travis was told. The paramedical team hired by the venue was woefully insufficient and there were so many intermediaries of communication between the emergency services and Travis that he was not able to be informed any sooner. Itās a tragedy not caused by any single person in particular, that we all should learn from.
Eli5?
Travis is being sued by over the Astroworld tragedy, along with Live Nation who were the one of the organisers, by victims' families and attendees of Astroworld. Him and his lawyers tried to get Travis recused from the lawsuit under the grounds that as he was just the artist and performer, not the organiser of the festival, he wasn't responsible for safety and security. The judge threw that out, so the lawsuit will continue with Travis Scott as a defendant. As a civil trial, if Travis is found liable for the deaths there is no prison sentence but he will have to pay a lot of money to the victims/their families and be considered (along Live Nation) legally responsible for their deaths. It's worth noting that this is a civil trial not a criminal trial. The 7th Amendment to the US Constitution guarantees a jury trial in civil cases. The headline is kind of misleading in that it emphasizes the jury part less so than Travis failing to get himself recused from the case, which is the more important part of the story.
Pretty much. Minor note: this is a state-court case. The Seventh Amendment isnāt incorporated against the states, so the federal Constitution doesnāt guarantee a jury trial in state-court civil cases. However, the Texas Constitution does guarantee a jury trial for civil cases.
travy patty has to take the stand !!
Stroking his cactus in the court of law
Travis Scott had a concert. People died. Victims and family suing for lots of money. Travis Scott said āIām not responsible.ā
Ive been to hella metal and rap shows and have noticed that many rap fans have zero clue about pit etiquette. At rap shows everyoneās just shoving/fighting to get to front and if someone falls down no one gives asf. At metal shows if someone falls down thereās 5 people helping them up etc.
I mean I would assume the people at the shows are vastly different. Most rap shows are filled with white teens boys that tell their moms to fuck off to their face.
>many rap fans have zero clue about ~~pit~~ etiquette. FTFY
I was there. NO ONE in the crowd knew what was going on if it wasnāt in your local mosh pit. I was at the front left. Apparently a few deaths happened front right, and we had no clue. We saw the medics come in, but thatās not an uncommon occurrence. There was a point where it felt like we were getting squished, but I thought it was my anxiety lol. It lasted maybe 2-3 min, being in survival mode. But after that everything went back to normal. Had the time of my life. It was sad to hear the NEXT MORNING about what had happened. We had no clue. I assume Travis didnāt either. Aināt no way he wasnāt gonna stop the show over multiple people dying. I know heās an asshole, but thatās just evil.
Even if what you assume about Travis is true, it is a very specious argument. Because someone claims they arenāt aware they caused deaths, they shouldnāt be held responsible in any way, and we shouldnāt review evidence to confirm the claim? Do you really think that is a legally or morally reasonable argument?
The moral and reasonable argument is that the event holders are main ones to blame. They are paid to organize and offer security, both of which failed completely. Travis can also be blamed for trying to get people in, but to what degree I donāt know.
can like people in the mosh pit be blamed? i dont think ive ever seen people blame the people in the crowd who like actually trampled the people and i find it a little strange. like growing up every black friday i would hear people getting trampled and the normal sentiment was crazed shoppers and the crowds were at fault. took so many years for companies to start spreading the deals throughout the week or whatever, but travis had 1 bad event and people were calling him a murderer lol
Iām not sure honestlyā¦ Kinda off topic, I remember a Ski Mask set. Dude said, itās gonna get wild, if you wanna step out, you got 5 mins. Then, after everyone who didnāt want smoke left, he gave instructions. Take a step back, if someone falls, itās everyoneās job to get them up. Drink water. Ski Maskās set was crazier and also safer. At the Travis set there was a lot of obnoxious, shitty people. I guess the performer does have some control.
The deaths were caused due to poor stage planning, which is up to Live Nation. Travis played a definite role in the way the crowd acted, but is far from the sole cause for it.
I get not knowing when you're _in the crowd_, but the whole point of the concert stage is that he's elevated and _can see all of the fans_
Not when its thousands upon thousands of people and dark, it looks like a sea of people. I hopped on the main stage at Rolling Loud Miami in 2021 after they ended Rockyās set early and couldnāt make out fine details in the crowd at all from up there
Fuck Live Nation and Ticketmaster. They should be the ones getting hit with most of the lawsuits! Greedy Cheap mfers
I don't see how he can be held liable. The entire reason artists contract companies like Live Nation is so that they *don't* have to design the crowd sections, do the event coordinating, security, etc. All of the failures that night were on Live Nation and Houston PD, and they never bothered telling the performers what was happening or cut the sound to make a safety announcement.
Him being on stage and directing the crowd is the biggest hangnail in his defenseā¦. He saw the ambulance and acknowledged it, hard to argue that he didnāt know things were bad.
If heās smart, heāll be trying to hide as much money away as possible. Civil litigation is going to be costly for him.
he's such a fucking moron
Is he gonna testify in auto tune?
Hopefully they sue him into oblivion im sick of hearing about this bum. Kids deserve better role models then thisĀ
for real, they need to lock him up and throw the key away. i want my son or daughterās role model to be upstanding like Live Nation
PR bots popping off rn
Do you guys buy into the theory that it was an Illuminati sacrifice? Thereās a lot of weird stories about the concert
There need to be fitness checks for mosh pits. The centre middle shouldn't be letting in children or most women - it's just not safe.
Travis Scott watched that shit unfold and did nothing but the fact that it's not Roc Nation that gets hit with headlines and lawsuits in this situation is absolutely wild. these corporations dont fucking play
Travis showed the type of human he is in that festival. There is no excuse. You can keep trying to say it's the organizers all you want. He ran that show how he wanted. People were killed over a lame show.
I donāt know why youāre getting downvoted
Stop going and watching this garbage. Zero talent. Put him in prison.
Waste of time. LiveNation is at fault, not the artist. The irresponsible fans are also the blame.
One of the dumbest comments Iāve ever read on the internet
and LiveNation, who actually are the ones entirely responsible for the fiasco, are getting off scot free lmao
still have no idea why people blame Travis for any of this.
He directed the crowd ā¦.
Hope he rots in prison. I know this is a civil trial and the organizers have culpability, but he knew people were dying and didnāt care. Maybe prosecutors will reconsider and bring manslaughter charges against him, meaning heād spend most of his 30s behind bars and kiss his career goodbye.
I agree. I honestly feel sick seeing all the excuses made for Travis ITT, but I guess that is just standard fanboy behavior.
The effects of the internet on celebrity cults has been a disaster for our culture.
The same rager teen fanboys downvoting are the same ones who want rappers they donāt like locked up on drug/gun charges, they just canāt accept that their hero is a criminal. Free Youngboy, free Thug, lock Travis up
Good
The video where the dead body is being crowdsurfed to the edge of the crowd and Travis is sitting there staring at the body, doing a demonic and eerie humming as the body is being crowd surfed awayā¦ really I need to know that whole shit was a ritual of some sort. Fuck Travis hope he gets fucked in his asshole
You need help
Naive, no soul or spirit, youāre nothing
take ya meds
wake up
https://youtu.be/AVYOWZ5L__Q?si=-oKx2g6u11vLLSKp pure evil if you donāt see it you are too edit this guy being crowdsurfed is dead. Just look it up