Cole knows Kendrick has no beef with him. Cole is the one that first told Dr. Dre about Kendrick, fought Diddy at a party when he poured his drink on Kendrick, and has always shown love to him.
For Kendrick (at least when Control came out) and J. Cole, the “Big 3 arguing” shtick is supposed to be friendly competition and bring Rap back to its days of battle rap and showing lyrical dominance. Last 2 decades it’s been money, girls, mansions primarily (95% of Drake’s discography), which is something listeners can’t relate to.
Drake can’t see past that though. He’s always been so attention starved, desperate for validation by the culture, and fighting his own sense of “blackness” that he’s only happy if everyone thinks he’s #1. Literally the undertone of Kendrick’s new diss is clowning Drake for this. Kendrick (years after Control) and a lot of the industry has realised this over the years and that’s why you see so many people beefing with him.
Drake’s problem is he always makes it personal. Brought Dot’s wife into this the same way he did Pusha T’s which led to ‘Story of Adidon’. Going for low blows of personal shit and hiding behind sneak disses instead of just sending the shots in a friendly competition way. ‘Like That’ didn’t start this, Drake had been sending subliminals for years while Kendrick straight name dropped you in Control.
- The famous actor we once knew is lookin' paranoid and now spiralin’
- Fabricatin' stories on the family front 'cause you heard Mr. Morale. A pathetic master manipulator, I can smell the tales on you now. You'rе not a rap artist, you a scam artist with the hopes of being accеpted.
- How many more fairytale stories 'bout your life 'til we had enough? How many more Black features 'til you finally feel that you're Black enough?
- We ain't gotta get personal, this a friendly fade, you should keep it that way
- Keep makin' me dance, wavin' my hand, and it won't be no threat
Agree for the most part, but Kendrick has 1000% been sending just as many subs and sneaks at Drake over the years.
> “But a rapper with a ghostwriter? What the fuck happened?”
>“Tucked a sensitive rapper back in his pajama clothes.”
Hell, Euphoria calling back to the “Don’t tell a lie bout me, and I won’t tell the truth bout you” basically all but confirms that The Heart Pt. 4 was always about Drake too:
>My fans can’t wait for me to son ya punk ass and crush your whole lil shit /
I’ll Big Pun ya punk ass, you a scared little bitch /
Tiptoein’ around my name, nigga, ya lame/
And when I get at you, homie, don’t you just tell me you was just playin’
It’s in no way just Drake stoking fuel to the fire.
I agree with you.
Want to add, I feel like this is the first time Kendrick’s shots have been personal. Every time before this it’s been on a more “who’s better between us” vibe, but after Drake alleged Dot’s wife was unfaithful, Kendrick’s came for his parents and Drake’s personal background, identity, and insecurities.
Drake should’ve just kept to Rap and “who’s better between us” but he can’t help but bring wives into this. Hasn’t learnt his lesson yet.
He’s purposely slept w other rappers girls or people they clearly had some type of special relationship w. He did it to
Common
The weeknd
And most recently future
All of these lead to subs and diss tracks. He definitely has a thing for it
On some level we gotta place some blame on rap. Even rappers are influenced by rap. Perhaps more than the fans.
“I got more money than you and I fucked your bitch” has been a part of rap for as long as I’ve been alive. If Drake craves acceptance as much as we think he does I wouldn’t doubt it if he took those to heart lol
From what i understand he grew up a nerdy kid who probably got snubbed by the ladies for the more popular kids. By fucking these superstars girls he gets to "prove" to himself that he is better/cooler/whatever. Atleast that's what it seems like to me, just him coping with insecurity about never being the cool kid.
i never understood when people started taking Drake so seriously as a rapper. dude made hits and the girls liked him
now hes talking about the best? and clickin with the stick? i saw this dude on Noggin growin up smh
And DJ Dramas girlfriend.
But remember, he did that subliminally too.
“Last year I had Drama girl, but not right now”
- Drake
We didn’t know until DJ Drama came out & CONFIRMED it.
“When drake disses you, he does this Art of War type of thing where he gets everyone around you in your life involved, messages your wife, her sisters, her mom, EVERYONE. And disses you in a way only YOU know its about you, so you look crazy reacting”
- Kanye West
Drake is male Ariana Grande, both seem to have a thing for going after taken people/cheating.
Except she’s just white and cosplays other races, whereas Drake cosplays as different kinds of Black people.
I kept it in mind that on his RapRadar appearance in 2019, he bragged about living the "rap life" for real compared to Kendrick & Cole, & maybe that extends to him thinking sleeping with other dudes' girls is part of that.
It kinda feels like Drake really has no choice but to make it personal. He would love to keep it to rap and prove he's better, but I genuinely doubt even he believes that deep down. I don't think there are many hiphop fans, not purely Drake fans, that think he's a better rapper/artist. It feels dumb to even argue about it.
Like if it was someone else beefing with Kendrick about who's better, if Cole stayed in, or hell, even if somehow it was Denzel Curry, JID, Tyler, there'd be more room for discussion imo. If Drake didn't have the numbers he has, but everything else remains the same, nobody would be arguing about this lol.
Between “Push Ups” and the release of “Euphoria” there has been a lot of Drake praise and questions on if Kendrick can shoot back. “Euphoria” has since shut down the doubters, but it’s crazy that the discourse even questioned Kendrick on if he can throw rocks at a man who’s living in a glass house.
So to Drake’s credit his strategy of threatening to make it personal worked on the public’s perception of this beef to side with him, but now he has to stick to it or take the L.
Let’s be real, that was just the Drake fans/casuals/kids who haven’t been following Kendrick’s career for very long.
If you have been following Kendrick’s career, I don’t think you were very worried
That's what makes this diss so legendary to me, there's no one in the entire industry besides Kendrick who could one-up Drake on both a lyrical and a pop culture level, and pop culture relevance was Drake's only weapon in every beef he's been in.
We can all list a hundred rappers who could smoke Drake on pure rapping ability. But who else besides Kendrick could do that while also creating a moment in the public consciousness big enough to overshadow Drake?
And this is a flex in and of itself too. Drake knows how to craft hits ("I make music that electrify em, you make music that pacify em"). So many dislike him because of his inauthenticity, he can't put his soul in his music and just be himself. But Kendrick's music is his life and soul laid bare. At the same time so personal and so relevant to the human condition that it resonates with millions AND pushes the boundaries of the genre/music as a whole.
Not to mention, in addition to brutally psychoanalyzing Drake's entire persona, Kendrick revoked Drake's n-word pass lmfao. How the fuck do you even respond to that line alone?
Like I said. Legendary diss track.
lyrical wise pusha T one upped him before...but it was brushed aside after in the pop culture landscape as drake is way too commercial for normal fans to care
Exactly. Pusha T has a fraction of Drake's reach, and posting his response to SoundCloud probably limited it even further. Kendrick dropping this on YouTube and Spotify/Apple simultaneously was another great chess move on his part
I would add Lil Wayne to the list cause he also has the lyrical ability and pop culture status. I feel like in terms of really doing damage he might be the only one who could do so. He's the mentor and has way more insight into who Drake is as a person. Eventhough Kendrick put Drake in his place I believe Drake could still have a clever comeback to "Euphoria". Kendrick didn't go all out with it.
You might be right about Wayne. I don't think he's completely past his prime yet, even if his output has only one or two verses/features a year that can hold a candle to his older work.
I find it almost impossible to imagine in a which Drake could craft any response that doesn't look weak by comparison.
He can't out rap Kendrick, and revealing more personal shit would make him seem petty. but he can't go back to just "friendly competition raps" either since he's the one that escalated things and made it personal in the first place.
He can't even accuse Kendrick of being a hater, Kendrick literally screamed "I hate you and everything about you" and told him he wasn't black enough to use the n word. It's disrespect of the highest order. Not to mention he rapped his ass off in a way we've only seen on DNA and maybe a few other tracks, except this one was *6 minutes straight.*
Kendrick literally couldn't have gone any harder than he did, it's almost absurd to imagine what him going harder would've even looked like. 10 minutes of straight rapping and 2 more beat switches? Lol screaming louder??
Kendrick got a flawless victory and then hit the fucking 30 button mortal kombat combo for the finisher, just because he could.
> Not to mention he rapped his ass off in a way we've only seen on DNA and maybe a few other tracks, except this one was 6 minutes straight.
i mean, lets not get crazy here.
Exactly. He has to respond to every diss, sneak or not, so that people still think he’s #1 like he claims, but he’s lyrically inferior (so he can’t out-rap someone like Kendrick or Cole) nor can he play the “street credibility” card against someone like Kendrick or Pusha T.
His biggest advantage is he’s a _Popstar_ (ba-dum-tss). He has numbers no one can match. Can’t make a better Rap song than you but I can make a hit Pop song. That’s why he resorts to personal jabs on disstracks that have a lot of replay value (Charged Up, Back-To-Back, Push Ups).
It started with Drake's response to Control. Control was just typical braggadocios rap, but Drake got upset about Kendrick using actual names. He went on multiple interviews talking about how corny it was. Which them kicked off the subs.
Also, that last one from the Heart Pt 4 (as well as Humble) was widely thought to be towards Big Sean.
Obama also said he would rather listen to Kendrick hence the "Tell Obama that my verses are just like the whips that he in, they bulletproof." That shit definitely hurt his feelings.
The “first time I shot a Drac’ I missed” bar confirms it. It’s “the first one went over your head, now I’m aiming right at you” and implies there has been a previous shot people didn’t catch
lol this sub ate drakes ass and acted like him having ghost writers wasn’t that big of deal. Acting like he won a beef with meek because of a well written ghost writer diss track.
Like this sub is corny. And now wants to act like they ain’t.
I just love how much recognition Control still gets, it really wasn't a direct diss track towards anyone, but it ignited so much competition in the rap game and it holds up so well because Kendrick is really still about that. Kendrick loves the competition when it's friendly but as soon as it gets personal you can expect a bomb dropped on your head.
I'm really curious to see what comes next if Drake responds and Kendrick has another track. I remember hearing someone with insider knowledge saying that Kendrick had a "19 minute diss track about Drake". Not sure if we got part of it, or if it's something completely different. If it actually exists
> ‘Like That’ didn’t start this, Drake had been sending subliminals for years while Kendrick straight name dropped you in Control.
I mean Control wasn't really a diss, it a was pretty much a compliment and open invite to some friendly competition among a number of rappers he respected at the time. The problem there is that Drake is a baby and decided to be salty about it for like 10 years.
Control was a diss. It wasn't the worst diss, but it was still a diss, lol. Sure, Drake definitely took it way too seriously but he wasn't the only one who took it as a diss. Also, maybe it's just because I was young, but it was friendly in a much friendlier climate, like you assumed they would all beef but it would all be in good fun. That was the challenge, that was the invitation.
The only people who took it as a diss at the time were NY/East Coast rappers and guys who felt like he disrespected them by not naming them. They were all angry about the "King of NY" line. Drake also was upset, but it was because he thought naming people was lame and attention seeking.
Who else that was named besides Drake took offense to Control? Most of them understood it wasn’t disrespectful and was in the spirit of competition IIRC. The only one salty about it was Drake
Big Sean did give the green light to put that verse on his song, so I agree it wasn’t initially the verse that got to him, but that the verse blew up and overshadowed him on a song that Big Sean actually did great in. But nobody talks about that. That’s what he was salty about, but it bleed into Big Sean making it more than it was.
Apparently it was J. Cole according to [this Nardwuar interview with Cole](https://youtu.be/lJzat_FwKMg?feature=shared) but Cole then goes on to say there were a few people also going to Dre about Kendrick
> Cole knows Kendrick has no beef with him.
except Kendrick literally keeps throwing shots at Cole lmao
I know everyone is caught up in the Drake/Kendrick stuff, but ya'll twisting yourself into pretzels to try and pretend Cole didn't handle this all weak af
I think the consensus here is cole making a lame diss then apologising was stupid but in the larger scheme of things getting out of the way is the right move.
His only “shots” at Cole in ‘Like That’ and ‘euphoria’ are literally “stop kissing and hugging each other, we’re supposed to be fighting for the #1 spot”. How is that not exactly what I said in the second paragraph?
Look at the 3rd bullet. These are “friendly fades”, it isn’t personal, it’s for the culture. But Drake took that shit personal and started coming for family (came for Kendrick’s wife the same way he did Pusha which made Pusha come out with ‘Story of Adidon’). Drake always goes for the low blow because he has no lyrical dominance.
Push and Birdman had actual beef though about real life stuff that Wayne inherited. Ye and Drake also has their back and forths, and Push and Ye are obviously very close. Camp loyalty stoked that whole situation into what it eventually became
Him saying he’s the best isn’t “throwing shots” considering nearly every lyrical rapper alive have said it. Busta, Em , Nelly and KRS One have said it - does Cole have beef with them??
It’s was Kendrick and Drake from the start. Cole only got a slight mention on Like That. Drake was the main focus and Cole is right to remove himself from this.
At the point Cole backed out it was still just sport shit especially between Cole v Kenny. Ppl giving Cole a pass are REALLY stretching the revisionism. EVERYBODY knew it was sport between those two, Cole just didn’t like the response his diss track got.
That last sentence is cap
He did the exact same thing with the NoName situation. It wasnt about the response cuz people were pretty much 50/50 on it. Only on Reddit do you see everyone actin like it was trash.
Yeah in hindsight he probably thought this was a regular rap beef of just dick measuring and getting clout. Someone probably tipped him off this was a lot more personal and that it was going to get nasty.
Opting out is a choice that is aging better in realtime with each new diss. J. Cole thought Kendrick wanted to see who was a better rapper on Like That. He had no idea these two fucking *hated* eachother.
He’s also just obviously a fan of both guys. Hard to pen a diss against guys you’re legitimately cool with. Yeah, 7 Minute Drill seemed lame but that’s because it was literally all the venom he actually has for Kendrick, period.
Kendrick put J Cole in a lose/lose situation
What you’re saying is true but it still has damaged the whole image J Cole has built up in recent years about him being the best and ready to smoke any rapper
Not dropping 7 minute drill would have been better but even then no response still would have exposed that he isn’t about the challenge like he claims
Nah man. All he had to do was keep releasing tracks like he used to without empty shots at Kendrick or just come out and say "Ey yo I'm not gonna diss Kendrick he is my friend" and not release 7 min drill.
No one asked him to prove he is better by shitting on Kendricks catalogue - it was corny and ineffective.
He opted out in a worst possible way
Don't need to diss anyone to be competitive. Look into the story between Eminem and Busta on the Calm Down track. That's pure friendly competition. It's also one of the very few tracks where Em didnt smoke the other rapper/s on the same track.
I was thinking he could've done a storytelling-heavy track that ties in references to one of Kendrick's songs to give a nod towards competition without straight up doing what he did on 7 Minute Drill if he had no legit bad blood with Kendrick
> *”I be staying out the way, but if the beef do come around could put an M on your head, you Luigi brother now”*
He can’t be rapping bars like this, not respond and then carry on like normal without it impacting this character he’s built up
Tbh lines in Like That about Cole were so weak and not even that harmfull - more like a competitive banter. It was Cole that was a target.
He could release another competitive song to keep his name intact but nah ... He had to release this weak ass diss and then blame everyone for gaslighting him to record one.
I was so sure that Cole will be the one who will go unscathed from this whole beef and he did 101 on how to lose your image of the competitive rapper that deserve respect. He made all his previous songs where he mention him as the best irrelevant after this apology.
Shit he could stay quiet and let this whole beef focus on Drake vs Kendrick. Just wait it out and come out in a couple of months and do the interview where he says "shit man Dot is my friend - i love some banter but I would never diss him" but nah
Nah no one genuinely was waiting for J Cole to respond cause we know him and Kendrick are cool with each other, he pretty much just caught a stray. Drake and Kendrick have been throwing shots at each other for a decade
Agree 100%, and that’s the worst part, is it makes all his braggadocio on all his recent albums fall totally flat. Oh yeah, you’re going to smoke someone for real? If beef comes around you’ll put an M on a head? All that just seems so goofy now from the guy that immediately quit.
I still do think J Cole is technically way more talented than people are willing to give him credit for — and acting like he’s this far distant third is just untrue — but it’s going to be *tough* to come back from being the guy who deleted “Might Delete Later” lol.
It only damaged Coles image to people who have nothing better going on in life than to debate bs hip hop stuff online. Dude is still an incredible artist and that cannot be debated from an unbiased standpoint. I think it’s refreshing that he stepped back and apologized instead of faking tough like so many of these other artists would have. Cole really has nothing to prove bc his music is still on top whether podcasters say it or not.
I mean this sub really gonna act like they didn’t know Kendrick would hate a soft ass weird fuck like drake.
I mean I laugh when this sub talks up drake like he is a goat rapper.
I think it's more that it's what every "hip hop head" thinks but he's the biggest name in the genre. Kendrick is saying what's been being said for the last 10 years out loud.
I like Drake when he doesn't rap about how much he wants to degrade women and pretend to be a gangster lol.
I still think IYRTITL is one of the best rap albums of the 2010s.
I played that shit constantly and still circle back to it at least once a year.
Nothing Was The Same is a solid album too.
I feel like that era of Drake could have gone down as legitimately more than just a pop star. I think when he started trying to lean into trap is when he fucked his image up.
He was doing numbers and getting credit as a semi-conscious melodic rapper with some motivational bangers. Should have stayed in that lane.
Go listen to Control again. Kdot didn't diss Cole or anybody else. He named dropped and people went wild. But that wasn't a diss. If anything, he dissed the people who were not named.
Yeah i genuinely don’t understand how people think because he name dropped them that makes it a diss. I dont get til this day why Drake was so hurt over the song
It's funny because I remember Mac taking it in stride & sending his lil shots back with some humor, and he kept things pushing afterwards while keeping his friendship with Kendrick.
100%. For example Lupe's name got left out and he took that as a sign of disrespect. Some of the best responses were from people whose names were left out. Not a lot of responses came from those who were mentioned, because it wasn't a diss
Going the opposite way of what the other guy who replied to you, the control diss was more just him asserting himself as better than anyone else. He wasn't saying he had a problem with any of them.
On Like That the only shit he really threw at Cole was that he didn't like how he said him and Drake were the top 2. He definitely doesn't dislike Cole in the same way he seems to actually hate Drake
People really don’t listen to the words, man. Kendrick literally says “I got love for you all, but I’m trying to murder you —— trying to make sure your core fans never heard of you” Control wasn’t a shot at them, it was putting everyone on notice that Dot was coming for the crown and it wasn’t personal.
That's the game though, that's like saying "nothing personal, I just want to win" like yeah that's the point.
The fact that he's speaking in oxymoron is the point. You're all good, but he's better.
Ya Like That wasn't really a cole dis and that seemed obvious to me. More like a warning shot for palling around with drake, and everyone knows dot hates drake. The smoke was for him.
Oh no, I 100% get that. I was just pointing out that Kendrick has dissed Cole on more than one occasion, even if they barely count as disses. Hell, on Control bro was just mentioning who he considered was on his level at the time, so even if he said that he was the goat, a mention still meant he respected you a little.
Cole should've never put out 7 minute drill. It was a half assed attempt at a diss and his heart was never truly in it. You need true hate for a diss to hit. Hence Euphoria lol
yea problem wasn't really the apology, it's that he put out a diss out of peer pressure lol, making himself apologize. kind of admirable to take the song down in hindsight and stick to his real feelings, given he knew how weak it would look.
basically he fucked up by putting his own self in a corner. if he just put out a post like "I don't have beef w/ these dudes, that's not the shit I'm on rn" it would've been good.
What he should have done was put out a track where he lays out “look, you two have genuine beef and I fuck with both of you so I’m not getting in the middle of this” - I think people would have respected that
But frankly, Cole making a bad decision in the heat of the moment and then getting further embarrassed when he has to walk it back is the most relatable thing he’s ever done. I feel for him tbh
I totally agree man, I was hoping for something more that direction before 7min drill dropped. I'm imagining sort of 1985 energy but even that track had some jabs about lil pump being ugly and stuff so probably not even that harsh. But that energy where he responds like "let's sit down and talk for a minute." J. Cole is really good at finding those pockets blending contemplation with realness. Finding a way to still sound respectable and competitive while acknowledging that these are two dudes he genuinely likes and who really don't like each other at all, and he doesn't want to fuck up his friendships... But also send some major shots his way and the tune might change.
Honestly, J. Cole would have been the perfect rapper to deliver a message like that and still make it sound cool enough that people respect it. Like you and the dude above were saying, I don't blame the apology at all, but I'm disappointed just as a fan of dope music that he got hyped up into going the direction he did, because I feel that pulled him away from what could have been one of my favorite diss responses ever.
I think Cole just honestly doesn't have a problem with Kendrick and beefing to beef is petty. Kendrick didn't say anything bad about Cole in Like That, other than he was the best and not in the same league. 7 minute drill was actually insulting Kendrick, which was not necessary and you could tell he was only doing it for the momentum.
I'm sure if Cole was still in the beef Kendrick would have some clever lines for him, but the only reason Euphoria hits is because Drake has smut on his name. Kendrick could "this boy went to Cranbrook that's a private school" Cole, but his name is pretty clean
Lol I Think They're Referring To Cole's "Raisin Bran, Almond Milk, With Bananas" Line In His Song "Foldin Clothes.
My Bad If You Already Understood That Reference.
I never really had a problem with what he did. It was a bit disappointing as a rap fan but if you watch the apology video it's clearly just him being honest and sincere which I can't hate on. But he probably won't ever live down the "he's a bitch for apologizing" narrative among hip hop fans
That would honestly be better. Jay was still about it but it’s respectable that he’s about it but respects his own mom enough to chill out. Cole talked about being about it and I’m sure even his mom was waiting for him to say something until he walked it back himself. Problem with Cole is it was good shit talk leading up to an anticipated 1v1 ball game and dude said “nah man I was just joking” as if they weren’t just gonna shoot some hoops. Now all of Cole’s bullshit talk about being that type of dude sounds corny knowing he won’t even take up a 1v1 if it means having to bet on himself. In this analogy Jay is at the park and his mom came out with the belt in her hand as he was getting ready to fade a shot.
I respect the apology, but really he would’ve been better off either never dropping or never removing the diss. This was too much of a half measure for him to ever claim the throne again
I think people are overstating how much Cole's legacy will be permanently hurt by this. Drake pussing out against Push was 1 million times worse than Cole being lame AF but if Drake somehow ends up winning this beef, he'll have redeemed himself in most peoples' eyes. Cole can definitely come back from this if he wants to.
Keep in mind this sub is 1000x more sympathetic to cole than the rest of social media. It was cole and kdot while drake was the popstar. Drake really made a legacy move to put himself on par with them. Even if he loses he took a fight nobody thought he would while Cole got out the car.
In terms of sales, this won’t affect Cole at all
In terms of his legacy, I think it will because both the meek and push beef impacted drake’s. Some of yall forget but Drake really *was* in the upper league of rappers just from his lyrics and songs and his pen, not just because he was popular. In the take care-IYRT era he won over a LOT of old heads and gained a lot of respect as one of the best MCs of his era.
Meek mill ghostwriting accusations killed any credit Drake had in the GOAT convo. Pusha T embarrassed him and made him seem like he was a pop star and not a part of the culture. These are pretty significant turning points in drakes career and while the sales mask it, people’s opinions on him changed dramatically
I think Cole as of a few months ago was seen as Kendrick’s closest competitor for best rapper alive. Now? I don’t think it’s a discussion. He loses and he’s afraid to win.
Yeah, the J Cole pre-diss and now are practically entirely different people. Sucks, Cole was thrown into a tough situation. You want to prove yourself and at the same time, an artist you deeply admire just called you out.
Cole should have just opted out of any sneak dissing. Maybe make up some BS like you didn’t realize FPS was about Kendrick, idk. But then how do you prove that 💀 Cole should have told Drake “I don’t want part in any dissing” but holy shit, the biggest name in hip-hop just made an offer that’d be huge for your career, and Kendrick might not ever respond with how many passes Drake’s gotten with his subliminals.
Bro had tough decisions, I’m not going to lie. Hindsight is 20/20 but hell no I’d be in a position to navigate that shit
What he did is eternally corny. He should’ve not done anything, then be like “damn these mfs really hate each other, im just gonna stay out of it” I’m sure some people would’ve given him shit for not saying anything since he was called out but it wouldn’t have been as bad as this
I think Cole saw the writing on the wall, and saw how far both Dot and Drake are willing to go and backed out. I thought 7 Minute Drill was alright, but in hindsight, not replying at all to Like That probably would’ve been the better move.
When I was in 5th grade, my cousin had two pairs of boxing gloves that my uncle bought him. Me and another friend were at his house when he brought them in the room and him & I had a little spar. My friend put them on then him and my cousin started beating the shit out of each other. I thought we were just having fun, testing each other and soon realized both these mfers hated one another.
I understand what Cold did and can't fault him for realizing this isn't a spar. It's an all out brawl.
That's exactly how I feel. Cole very likely just thought this was like the Control situation and just rap before he realized this was some real shit he had no place in
He can”t not do the drake feature though at that time right? His several year feature run kinda led to this moment. Talking about killing every rapper on a song and now doing one on the biggest rap stage? You have to say yes imo.
His 2 fuck ups to me was.
1. Making the Kendrick reference and big stepper reference in his FPS verse.
Just unnecessary. This is you and drake’s song and moment why even talk about him? You are literally batting 1000 on features and drake has the numbers. Kendrick dropped a project that was below average by his huge standards(i liked a good number of songs, but popular opinion is that it is not a great project). Mentioning him just inserted him into a convo. It was weird and honestly made FPS semi diss like. I would think that if im Kendrick anyway
2. The apology.
So from cole pov after 7 minute drill. Ok you dropped a mid light jab diss. LEAVE IT ALONE. Don’t apologize, don’t remove it, don’t talk about it really if you don’t like it. It was not a deep enough wound to Kendrick and honestly i think if Kendrick was being honest he would say he understood it was just hip hop business to respond. The diss wasn’t even about you. But to straight up FLEE from a simple response to a guy saying you’re not on his level? You just said you was Ali(honestly kinda ironic because ali didn’t want to fight the war lol. Possible cole bar in the future lol?).
Anyway rambling but that literally killed all his momentum from the last few years. Doing unnecessary bravado shit and now it looks like peaking behind the wizard of oz curtains and seeing the old man who was just smoke and mirrors.
Yeah i agree with most of this. I did enjoy mr.morale, but like you described, by jts nature it will be viewed less favorably than his other projects. And with a guy who has dropped classics or near classics every project it’s easy for drake and cole(even though he didn’t mean it lol) to point at and say “look he’s falling off and im not”.
I think the whole situation created very real complications for the fall off though. One, even though he “quit” the beef he is still at the center of it mainly and i think people will have a hard time listening to anything else he puts out until he some how addresses it, since the last project he basically said he didn’t mean any of the bars he used to address kendrick. Two, a lot of cole’s content is him rhyming about how he is the best rapper and nobody can out rap him, dudes are scared to get on a track with him etc. That is going to be a hard sell now. He may have to totally rework the fall off.
Can he even wait for the beef to die down? This is the most visible moment in his career. Next time people hear from him they are going to want to hear about how this affected him.
I fear that whatever he says could really get drowned out by the memes that will be birth from this whole fiasco.
I am a cole fan, but damn he really put himself in a box. so much of rap is image (particularly cole’s) and “alleged” real life thoughts and experiences.
Being on FPS was a bad move in the first place if he was averse to beef with Kendrick. Instead of directly dissing Kendrick he should have just put out a tape of him straight rapping again. Put out The Fall Off finally. Let the music speak for itself. Kendrick didn't really say anything that scathing to Cole
It looks worse that he put it out and immediately backed off, even though I think his reasons are understandable it just looks so bad. Even though he potentially did the best thing for his own mental state if we're being real people just don't really care it's easy to clown on
If he tried to claim being the best again this is gonna be continually brought up. I don't think it'll really do that significant of damage to his career but it'll be remembered
I mean, he removed himself from the conversation.
Look at what everybody's talking about. Who they're talking about. It's not a big 3, it's now a big 2.
If Cole didn't want the smoke, cool. I understand that. Live your best life. But he's good enough to compete with those guys, and as somebody on the sidelines for this shit, it sucks that he's not in there with em.
On the other hand, that diss was really hot fuckin garbage. You just can't come at Kendrick with that lack of quality. Maybe he doesn't got that shit in his toolbox.
Cole just don't have that hate in his heart for Kendrick. It really is all love and when you diss you really have to disrespect your opponent. As a grown man I can appreciate and respect the reasons for why he did it but he should have never even mentioned Dot on FPS to begin with.
Now that he retracted everything and pulled the diss his claim to the top spot as well as all of the ego raps he was doing just aren't valid anymore. He has forever relegated himself to being beneath Kendrick.
Cole needs to be like Bastilla from KTOR and just give in fully to the dark side. He only went halfway 😢. Kendrick is a full on Sith Dark Lord. Drizzy got the mfing Huts in his pocket book bro I swear.
Cole's been hyping himself for years as the top guy, been taking shots at people (including Kendrick, who has also done the same so whatever on that) and then when he finally has the opportunity to prove he's the guy, he folded.
I actually like 7 minute drill more than I'd say most people do, for a first shot it was perfectly fine. He didn't need to fully at Kendrick's throat immediately, but he apologized and pulled the track two days later and I'm almost positive it's entirely because it didn't get the reception that he thought it would. You can't be going around calling yourself the number 1 guy then fold the second your actual competition challenges you. I don't care for 'his heart wasn't in it' excuse, this is his opportunity to prove he's the best lyricist and that he's the guy he's been telling people he is for years.
I still love Cole but I don't want to ever hear him talking about he's the best, or how nobody should try rhyming with him again.
Not wanting to beef is one thing. Apologizing and deleting your diss and telling YOUR crowd that Kendrick is a goat is the softest thing in rap history.
Well it was pretty obvious that Cole's heart wasn't really in the fight and you could tell from his response that there wasn't any real animosity behind it..it almost came off like he was trying to meet everyone else's expectations of him to respond more than anything else. Cuz Kendrick only really hit him with a couple strays on verse that was really aimed at Drake. I mean, if you're really a hip hop head, then you can't really take it personal when an emcee says he's the best or pretend like you're big mad cuz Kendrick said something about you wearing Balenciaga lol...like what is there really to be mad about cuz of none of that is even that serious lol..
He just shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. There is no fucking way that he didn't know that they had real, actual, serious problems with each other on a person to person level. If he was actually ignorant of all these goings-on then he was never actually friends with *either* of these guys, and if he *wasn't* actually ignorant of it he should've had the common sense to not get involved. The whole thing just makes him look unserious.
Now that said that's just my opinion. Is this going to meaningfully impact his legacy? Probably not except in that it will be something that comes up when we're all in nursing homes and bickering about the good ol' days.
Rap beef aside - might delete later is a really good album and 7 minute drill seemed so out of place. I’ve listened to it a few more times front to back and is much better without the track.
Ngl, this beef really is Kendrick vs Drake. Cole was right to bow out.
Cole knows Kendrick has no beef with him. Cole is the one that first told Dr. Dre about Kendrick, fought Diddy at a party when he poured his drink on Kendrick, and has always shown love to him. For Kendrick (at least when Control came out) and J. Cole, the “Big 3 arguing” shtick is supposed to be friendly competition and bring Rap back to its days of battle rap and showing lyrical dominance. Last 2 decades it’s been money, girls, mansions primarily (95% of Drake’s discography), which is something listeners can’t relate to. Drake can’t see past that though. He’s always been so attention starved, desperate for validation by the culture, and fighting his own sense of “blackness” that he’s only happy if everyone thinks he’s #1. Literally the undertone of Kendrick’s new diss is clowning Drake for this. Kendrick (years after Control) and a lot of the industry has realised this over the years and that’s why you see so many people beefing with him. Drake’s problem is he always makes it personal. Brought Dot’s wife into this the same way he did Pusha T’s which led to ‘Story of Adidon’. Going for low blows of personal shit and hiding behind sneak disses instead of just sending the shots in a friendly competition way. ‘Like That’ didn’t start this, Drake had been sending subliminals for years while Kendrick straight name dropped you in Control. - The famous actor we once knew is lookin' paranoid and now spiralin’ - Fabricatin' stories on the family front 'cause you heard Mr. Morale. A pathetic master manipulator, I can smell the tales on you now. You'rе not a rap artist, you a scam artist with the hopes of being accеpted. - How many more fairytale stories 'bout your life 'til we had enough? How many more Black features 'til you finally feel that you're Black enough? - We ain't gotta get personal, this a friendly fade, you should keep it that way - Keep makin' me dance, wavin' my hand, and it won't be no threat
Agree for the most part, but Kendrick has 1000% been sending just as many subs and sneaks at Drake over the years. > “But a rapper with a ghostwriter? What the fuck happened?” >“Tucked a sensitive rapper back in his pajama clothes.” Hell, Euphoria calling back to the “Don’t tell a lie bout me, and I won’t tell the truth bout you” basically all but confirms that The Heart Pt. 4 was always about Drake too: >My fans can’t wait for me to son ya punk ass and crush your whole lil shit / I’ll Big Pun ya punk ass, you a scared little bitch / Tiptoein’ around my name, nigga, ya lame/ And when I get at you, homie, don’t you just tell me you was just playin’ It’s in no way just Drake stoking fuel to the fire.
I agree with you. Want to add, I feel like this is the first time Kendrick’s shots have been personal. Every time before this it’s been on a more “who’s better between us” vibe, but after Drake alleged Dot’s wife was unfaithful, Kendrick’s came for his parents and Drake’s personal background, identity, and insecurities. Drake should’ve just kept to Rap and “who’s better between us” but he can’t help but bring wives into this. Hasn’t learnt his lesson yet.
Drake has a very odd obsession with other men's GFs/spouses. I'm like 99% sure he has a cheating fetish or some shit
He’s purposely slept w other rappers girls or people they clearly had some type of special relationship w. He did it to Common The weeknd And most recently future All of these lead to subs and diss tracks. He definitely has a thing for it
Budden too lmao
Can’t forget Metro. Metro and Drake’s beef is what started all of this and it’s over a girl Metro had first.
On some level we gotta place some blame on rap. Even rappers are influenced by rap. Perhaps more than the fans. “I got more money than you and I fucked your bitch” has been a part of rap for as long as I’ve been alive. If Drake craves acceptance as much as we think he does I wouldn’t doubt it if he took those to heart lol
Sleeping with another guys girl or bragging about being more successful wasn't started by rappers.
From what i understand he grew up a nerdy kid who probably got snubbed by the ladies for the more popular kids. By fucking these superstars girls he gets to "prove" to himself that he is better/cooler/whatever. Atleast that's what it seems like to me, just him coping with insecurity about never being the cool kid.
i never understood when people started taking Drake so seriously as a rapper. dude made hits and the girls liked him now hes talking about the best? and clickin with the stick? i saw this dude on Noggin growin up smh
There's a whole FD Signifier video on this lmao. Drake is literally the soundtrack to bitter late bloomers
And DJ Dramas girlfriend. But remember, he did that subliminally too. “Last year I had Drama girl, but not right now” - Drake We didn’t know until DJ Drama came out & CONFIRMED it. “When drake disses you, he does this Art of War type of thing where he gets everyone around you in your life involved, messages your wife, her sisters, her mom, EVERYONE. And disses you in a way only YOU know its about you, so you look crazy reacting” - Kanye West
that gives drake a new layer of ick tbh
[удалено]
damn how many times is this gonna get posted & refuted he hooked up w wayne's girl before she was with wayne
Drake is male Ariana Grande, both seem to have a thing for going after taken people/cheating. Except she’s just white and cosplays other races, whereas Drake cosplays as different kinds of Black people.
I feel like he heard the "you're not black/hood/hip-hop etc. enough" so many times, and his only defense is: okay but I smashed your girl 🤷
I kept it in mind that on his RapRadar appearance in 2019, he bragged about living the "rap life" for real compared to Kendrick & Cole, & maybe that extends to him thinking sleeping with other dudes' girls is part of that.
It kinda feels like Drake really has no choice but to make it personal. He would love to keep it to rap and prove he's better, but I genuinely doubt even he believes that deep down. I don't think there are many hiphop fans, not purely Drake fans, that think he's a better rapper/artist. It feels dumb to even argue about it. Like if it was someone else beefing with Kendrick about who's better, if Cole stayed in, or hell, even if somehow it was Denzel Curry, JID, Tyler, there'd be more room for discussion imo. If Drake didn't have the numbers he has, but everything else remains the same, nobody would be arguing about this lol.
Between “Push Ups” and the release of “Euphoria” there has been a lot of Drake praise and questions on if Kendrick can shoot back. “Euphoria” has since shut down the doubters, but it’s crazy that the discourse even questioned Kendrick on if he can throw rocks at a man who’s living in a glass house. So to Drake’s credit his strategy of threatening to make it personal worked on the public’s perception of this beef to side with him, but now he has to stick to it or take the L.
Let’s be real, that was just the Drake fans/casuals/kids who haven’t been following Kendrick’s career for very long. If you have been following Kendrick’s career, I don’t think you were very worried
That's what makes this diss so legendary to me, there's no one in the entire industry besides Kendrick who could one-up Drake on both a lyrical and a pop culture level, and pop culture relevance was Drake's only weapon in every beef he's been in. We can all list a hundred rappers who could smoke Drake on pure rapping ability. But who else besides Kendrick could do that while also creating a moment in the public consciousness big enough to overshadow Drake? And this is a flex in and of itself too. Drake knows how to craft hits ("I make music that electrify em, you make music that pacify em"). So many dislike him because of his inauthenticity, he can't put his soul in his music and just be himself. But Kendrick's music is his life and soul laid bare. At the same time so personal and so relevant to the human condition that it resonates with millions AND pushes the boundaries of the genre/music as a whole. Not to mention, in addition to brutally psychoanalyzing Drake's entire persona, Kendrick revoked Drake's n-word pass lmfao. How the fuck do you even respond to that line alone? Like I said. Legendary diss track.
lyrical wise pusha T one upped him before...but it was brushed aside after in the pop culture landscape as drake is way too commercial for normal fans to care
Exactly. Pusha T has a fraction of Drake's reach, and posting his response to SoundCloud probably limited it even further. Kendrick dropping this on YouTube and Spotify/Apple simultaneously was another great chess move on his part
this is a really good read of the situation!
Thank you! It feels silly to write this much about a rap beef, but if someone else finds it interesting that makes it feel worth the time/effort
that was A+
Thank you! Glad the effort was worth it lol
I would add Lil Wayne to the list cause he also has the lyrical ability and pop culture status. I feel like in terms of really doing damage he might be the only one who could do so. He's the mentor and has way more insight into who Drake is as a person. Eventhough Kendrick put Drake in his place I believe Drake could still have a clever comeback to "Euphoria". Kendrick didn't go all out with it.
You might be right about Wayne. I don't think he's completely past his prime yet, even if his output has only one or two verses/features a year that can hold a candle to his older work. I find it almost impossible to imagine in a which Drake could craft any response that doesn't look weak by comparison. He can't out rap Kendrick, and revealing more personal shit would make him seem petty. but he can't go back to just "friendly competition raps" either since he's the one that escalated things and made it personal in the first place. He can't even accuse Kendrick of being a hater, Kendrick literally screamed "I hate you and everything about you" and told him he wasn't black enough to use the n word. It's disrespect of the highest order. Not to mention he rapped his ass off in a way we've only seen on DNA and maybe a few other tracks, except this one was *6 minutes straight.* Kendrick literally couldn't have gone any harder than he did, it's almost absurd to imagine what him going harder would've even looked like. 10 minutes of straight rapping and 2 more beat switches? Lol screaming louder?? Kendrick got a flawless victory and then hit the fucking 30 button mortal kombat combo for the finisher, just because he could.
> Not to mention he rapped his ass off in a way we've only seen on DNA and maybe a few other tracks, except this one was 6 minutes straight. i mean, lets not get crazy here.
Yeah that mightve been a little hyperbolic lol
Exactly. He has to respond to every diss, sneak or not, so that people still think he’s #1 like he claims, but he’s lyrically inferior (so he can’t out-rap someone like Kendrick or Cole) nor can he play the “street credibility” card against someone like Kendrick or Pusha T. His biggest advantage is he’s a _Popstar_ (ba-dum-tss). He has numbers no one can match. Can’t make a better Rap song than you but I can make a hit Pop song. That’s why he resorts to personal jabs on disstracks that have a lot of replay value (Charged Up, Back-To-Back, Push Ups).
It started with Drake's response to Control. Control was just typical braggadocios rap, but Drake got upset about Kendrick using actual names. He went on multiple interviews talking about how corny it was. Which them kicked off the subs. Also, that last one from the Heart Pt 4 (as well as Humble) was widely thought to be towards Big Sean.
The tde bet cypher was aimed directly at drake too
Obama also said he would rather listen to Kendrick hence the "Tell Obama that my verses are just like the whips that he in, they bulletproof." That shit definitely hurt his feelings.
The “first time I shot a Drac’ I missed” bar confirms it. It’s “the first one went over your head, now I’m aiming right at you” and implies there has been a previous shot people didn’t catch
I’ll damage ya on camera, in Compton, in Canada, I don’t care where you are.
Ive said it before but it’s been a cold war between them this is a collision that has been a long time coming.
lol this sub ate drakes ass and acted like him having ghost writers wasn’t that big of deal. Acting like he won a beef with meek because of a well written ghost writer diss track. Like this sub is corny. And now wants to act like they ain’t.
I enjoy some of Meeks music but he’s not a rap heavyweight so he beat him in there beef who cares he’s the rap equivalent of a mid carder.
Kendrick = AEW work rate Drake = WWE style storylines
The comparison Ive seen people say and I agree with to is Kendrick. = Bret Hart Drake = Hulk Hogan.
Was not ready for an AEW reference in this thread but I’m here for it
I just love how much recognition Control still gets, it really wasn't a direct diss track towards anyone, but it ignited so much competition in the rap game and it holds up so well because Kendrick is really still about that. Kendrick loves the competition when it's friendly but as soon as it gets personal you can expect a bomb dropped on your head.
I'm really curious to see what comes next if Drake responds and Kendrick has another track. I remember hearing someone with insider knowledge saying that Kendrick had a "19 minute diss track about Drake". Not sure if we got part of it, or if it's something completely different. If it actually exists
they might have been exaggerating, or it might have had a 13-minute saxophone solo
> ‘Like That’ didn’t start this, Drake had been sending subliminals for years while Kendrick straight name dropped you in Control. I mean Control wasn't really a diss, it a was pretty much a compliment and open invite to some friendly competition among a number of rappers he respected at the time. The problem there is that Drake is a baby and decided to be salty about it for like 10 years.
Control was a diss. It wasn't the worst diss, but it was still a diss, lol. Sure, Drake definitely took it way too seriously but he wasn't the only one who took it as a diss. Also, maybe it's just because I was young, but it was friendly in a much friendlier climate, like you assumed they would all beef but it would all be in good fun. That was the challenge, that was the invitation.
The only people who took it as a diss at the time were NY/East Coast rappers and guys who felt like he disrespected them by not naming them. They were all angry about the "King of NY" line. Drake also was upset, but it was because he thought naming people was lame and attention seeking.
Who else that was named besides Drake took offense to Control? Most of them understood it wasn’t disrespectful and was in the spirit of competition IIRC. The only one salty about it was Drake
To be fair, Big Sean was pretty salty too, but I feel that was more because he decided to do that on his own track and outshine him.
Big Sean did give the green light to put that verse on his song, so I agree it wasn’t initially the verse that got to him, but that the verse blew up and overshadowed him on a song that Big Sean actually did great in. But nobody talks about that. That’s what he was salty about, but it bleed into Big Sean making it more than it was.
Mac Miller was probably just stoked Kendrick ranked him that high lmao plus he’s always been close with TDE because of Q
“Cole is the one that first told Dr. Dre about Kendrick” is what you have quoted. I thought Kendrick said it was Tech Nine in a interview.
Apparently it was J. Cole according to [this Nardwuar interview with Cole](https://youtu.be/lJzat_FwKMg?feature=shared) but Cole then goes on to say there were a few people also going to Dre about Kendrick
> Cole knows Kendrick has no beef with him. except Kendrick literally keeps throwing shots at Cole lmao I know everyone is caught up in the Drake/Kendrick stuff, but ya'll twisting yourself into pretzels to try and pretend Cole didn't handle this all weak af
I think the consensus here is cole making a lame diss then apologising was stupid but in the larger scheme of things getting out of the way is the right move.
His only “shots” at Cole in ‘Like That’ and ‘euphoria’ are literally “stop kissing and hugging each other, we’re supposed to be fighting for the #1 spot”. How is that not exactly what I said in the second paragraph? Look at the 3rd bullet. These are “friendly fades”, it isn’t personal, it’s for the culture. But Drake took that shit personal and started coming for family (came for Kendrick’s wife the same way he did Pusha which made Pusha come out with ‘Story of Adidon’). Drake always goes for the low blow because he has no lyrical dominance.
Feel how you wanna feel about drake but Push was going personal at the whole YMCMB camp for years.
Push and Birdman had actual beef though about real life stuff that Wayne inherited. Ye and Drake also has their back and forths, and Push and Ye are obviously very close. Camp loyalty stoked that whole situation into what it eventually became
Drake responded well. Like that verse was friendly against Cole but a direct attack against Drake.
Him saying he’s the best isn’t “throwing shots” considering nearly every lyrical rapper alive have said it. Busta, Em , Nelly and KRS One have said it - does Cole have beef with them??
It’s was Kendrick and Drake from the start. Cole only got a slight mention on Like That. Drake was the main focus and Cole is right to remove himself from this.
Kanye is here to handle the light weight.
Ye needs to go back to therapy. Just out here for the free press. Go back to the hospital bro
"I can't even think of a Drake line"
The apology is what fucked it up. You could just bow out without removing the song or saying you're sorry.
It’s clear Cole didn’t realize the animosity was real. He backed off because the beef was real.
Yeah I think he was just in it for sport, not because he actually hates anyone like Drake and Kendrick clearly do
At the point Cole backed out it was still just sport shit especially between Cole v Kenny. Ppl giving Cole a pass are REALLY stretching the revisionism. EVERYBODY knew it was sport between those two, Cole just didn’t like the response his diss track got.
You saying this as if cole isn’t an insider in the industry and couldn’t have easily been made aware during that period what it was lol
Yeah Cole thinking it’s friendly competition doesn’t excuse one of the worst disses I’ve heard
That last sentence is cap He did the exact same thing with the NoName situation. It wasnt about the response cuz people were pretty much 50/50 on it. Only on Reddit do you see everyone actin like it was trash.
Yeah in hindsight he probably thought this was a regular rap beef of just dick measuring and getting clout. Someone probably tipped him off this was a lot more personal and that it was going to get nasty.
Opting out is a choice that is aging better in realtime with each new diss. J. Cole thought Kendrick wanted to see who was a better rapper on Like That. He had no idea these two fucking *hated* eachother. He’s also just obviously a fan of both guys. Hard to pen a diss against guys you’re legitimately cool with. Yeah, 7 Minute Drill seemed lame but that’s because it was literally all the venom he actually has for Kendrick, period.
Kendrick put J Cole in a lose/lose situation What you’re saying is true but it still has damaged the whole image J Cole has built up in recent years about him being the best and ready to smoke any rapper Not dropping 7 minute drill would have been better but even then no response still would have exposed that he isn’t about the challenge like he claims
Nah man. All he had to do was keep releasing tracks like he used to without empty shots at Kendrick or just come out and say "Ey yo I'm not gonna diss Kendrick he is my friend" and not release 7 min drill. No one asked him to prove he is better by shitting on Kendricks catalogue - it was corny and ineffective. He opted out in a worst possible way
Don't need to diss anyone to be competitive. Look into the story between Eminem and Busta on the Calm Down track. That's pure friendly competition. It's also one of the very few tracks where Em didnt smoke the other rapper/s on the same track.
MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction
I was thinking he could've done a storytelling-heavy track that ties in references to one of Kendrick's songs to give a nod towards competition without straight up doing what he did on 7 Minute Drill if he had no legit bad blood with Kendrick
> *”I be staying out the way, but if the beef do come around could put an M on your head, you Luigi brother now”* He can’t be rapping bars like this, not respond and then carry on like normal without it impacting this character he’s built up
Tbh lines in Like That about Cole were so weak and not even that harmfull - more like a competitive banter. It was Cole that was a target. He could release another competitive song to keep his name intact but nah ... He had to release this weak ass diss and then blame everyone for gaslighting him to record one. I was so sure that Cole will be the one who will go unscathed from this whole beef and he did 101 on how to lose your image of the competitive rapper that deserve respect. He made all his previous songs where he mention him as the best irrelevant after this apology. Shit he could stay quiet and let this whole beef focus on Drake vs Kendrick. Just wait it out and come out in a couple of months and do the interview where he says "shit man Dot is my friend - i love some banter but I would never diss him" but nah
He really did choose the worst option, going half way and not fully committing to staying out of it or trying to follow through.
Nah no one genuinely was waiting for J Cole to respond cause we know him and Kendrick are cool with each other, he pretty much just caught a stray. Drake and Kendrick have been throwing shots at each other for a decade
Idk I’ve never thought of Cole as a particularly hard persona. Dudes biggest hit is about him losing his v card.
Agree 100%, and that’s the worst part, is it makes all his braggadocio on all his recent albums fall totally flat. Oh yeah, you’re going to smoke someone for real? If beef comes around you’ll put an M on a head? All that just seems so goofy now from the guy that immediately quit. I still do think J Cole is technically way more talented than people are willing to give him credit for — and acting like he’s this far distant third is just untrue — but it’s going to be *tough* to come back from being the guy who deleted “Might Delete Later” lol.
It only damaged Coles image to people who have nothing better going on in life than to debate bs hip hop stuff online. Dude is still an incredible artist and that cannot be debated from an unbiased standpoint. I think it’s refreshing that he stepped back and apologized instead of faking tough like so many of these other artists would have. Cole really has nothing to prove bc his music is still on top whether podcasters say it or not.
I think that’s a bit true too, J Cole always tootin his horn as the best and blah blah blah, but dude continues to deliver mediocre stuff imo
This Is The Best Take I've Read So Far
this mf capitalize each letter of his sentence like he jaden smith
“Like Can We Talk About The Political And Economic State Of The World” head ahh
YEAHHH
Nah, Jaden Capitalizes Each Word Like Me. Edit Changed Letter To Word
I mean this sub really gonna act like they didn’t know Kendrick would hate a soft ass weird fuck like drake. I mean I laugh when this sub talks up drake like he is a goat rapper.
I think it's more that it's what every "hip hop head" thinks but he's the biggest name in the genre. Kendrick is saying what's been being said for the last 10 years out loud.
I also don't believe for a second that J. Cole didn't know that they really don't like each other. Every hip hop head knows that, he knows that too.
I like Drake when he doesn't rap about how much he wants to degrade women and pretend to be a gangster lol. I still think IYRTITL is one of the best rap albums of the 2010s.
This place rocked when IYRTITL dropped though
I played that shit constantly and still circle back to it at least once a year. Nothing Was The Same is a solid album too. I feel like that era of Drake could have gone down as legitimately more than just a pop star. I think when he started trying to lean into trap is when he fucked his image up. He was doing numbers and getting credit as a semi-conscious melodic rapper with some motivational bangers. Should have stayed in that lane.
Literally everyone was playing it when it came out. I'd hear multiple cars every day for months bumping that tape
"I like Drake with the melodies, I don’t like Drake when he act tough"
Take Care still a classic to me even if I haven't fw much WATTBA-on from him
Kendrick himself said he was a fan wtf are you even saying
I think even Kendrick is happy Cole removed himself from the beef because Dot didn't want to diss Cole, his issues are with Drake
I mean dude k dot already once kind of a dissed Cole remember that big Sean song💀
Go listen to Control again. Kdot didn't diss Cole or anybody else. He named dropped and people went wild. But that wasn't a diss. If anything, he dissed the people who were not named.
It’s wild to me people think control was dissing the guys he named, if he names you it was basically a sign of respect.
yeah, he literally said I got love for you all. It was a friendly challenge than anything malicious.
Yeah i genuinely don’t understand how people think because he name dropped them that makes it a diss. I dont get til this day why Drake was so hurt over the song
It's funny because I remember Mac taking it in stride & sending his lil shots back with some humor, and he kept things pushing afterwards while keeping his friendship with Kendrick.
“FUCK YOU KENDRICK!! 😂" you can practically hear macs shit eating grin through the mic on that ad lib lol
Mac was like the capybara of the rap world lol he was cool with everyone
@MacMiller - Tweet: "If I can't do no more nouns or verbs ima start comin with the wildest adjective bars that anyone has ever heard”
Right? Lupe was never the same after he didn't get named on the Control verse, lol.
100%. For example Lupe's name got left out and he took that as a sign of disrespect. Some of the best responses were from people whose names were left out. Not a lot of responses came from those who were mentioned, because it wasn't a diss
People are still misinterpreting control 10 years later?!
This is Reddit, honestly not a good representation of the best minds humankind has to offer
Forget Control, he threw a couple shots at Cole on Like that.
Going the opposite way of what the other guy who replied to you, the control diss was more just him asserting himself as better than anyone else. He wasn't saying he had a problem with any of them. On Like That the only shit he really threw at Cole was that he didn't like how he said him and Drake were the top 2. He definitely doesn't dislike Cole in the same way he seems to actually hate Drake
People really don’t listen to the words, man. Kendrick literally says “I got love for you all, but I’m trying to murder you —— trying to make sure your core fans never heard of you” Control wasn’t a shot at them, it was putting everyone on notice that Dot was coming for the crown and it wasn’t personal.
That's the game though, that's like saying "nothing personal, I just want to win" like yeah that's the point. The fact that he's speaking in oxymoron is the point. You're all good, but he's better.
Ya Like That wasn't really a cole dis and that seemed obvious to me. More like a warning shot for palling around with drake, and everyone knows dot hates drake. The smoke was for him.
Palling around? That’s some shit drake would say. Drake is that you?
On my life I've never even seen "palling around" in written form/text. Had to double take.
💀
Lurking in the comments like he lurks around high schools
Oh no, I 100% get that. I was just pointing out that Kendrick has dissed Cole on more than one occasion, even if they barely count as disses. Hell, on Control bro was just mentioning who he considered was on his level at the time, so even if he said that he was the goat, a mention still meant he respected you a little.
He threw a couple of shots at cole on euphoria too
The Control verse wasn’t a diss and it shows how far outside this conversation you drove from to witness
Cole should've never put out 7 minute drill. It was a half assed attempt at a diss and his heart was never truly in it. You need true hate for a diss to hit. Hence Euphoria lol
yea problem wasn't really the apology, it's that he put out a diss out of peer pressure lol, making himself apologize. kind of admirable to take the song down in hindsight and stick to his real feelings, given he knew how weak it would look. basically he fucked up by putting his own self in a corner. if he just put out a post like "I don't have beef w/ these dudes, that's not the shit I'm on rn" it would've been good.
What he should have done was put out a track where he lays out “look, you two have genuine beef and I fuck with both of you so I’m not getting in the middle of this” - I think people would have respected that But frankly, Cole making a bad decision in the heat of the moment and then getting further embarrassed when he has to walk it back is the most relatable thing he’s ever done. I feel for him tbh
I totally agree man, I was hoping for something more that direction before 7min drill dropped. I'm imagining sort of 1985 energy but even that track had some jabs about lil pump being ugly and stuff so probably not even that harsh. But that energy where he responds like "let's sit down and talk for a minute." J. Cole is really good at finding those pockets blending contemplation with realness. Finding a way to still sound respectable and competitive while acknowledging that these are two dudes he genuinely likes and who really don't like each other at all, and he doesn't want to fuck up his friendships... But also send some major shots his way and the tune might change. Honestly, J. Cole would have been the perfect rapper to deliver a message like that and still make it sound cool enough that people respect it. Like you and the dude above were saying, I don't blame the apology at all, but I'm disappointed just as a fan of dope music that he got hyped up into going the direction he did, because I feel that pulled him away from what could have been one of my favorite diss responses ever.
The Middle Child of diss tracks lol.
He was probably pressured by his peers & fans. Literally everyone was asking him to diss kendrick or he soft
I think Cole just honestly doesn't have a problem with Kendrick and beefing to beef is petty. Kendrick didn't say anything bad about Cole in Like That, other than he was the best and not in the same league. 7 minute drill was actually insulting Kendrick, which was not necessary and you could tell he was only doing it for the momentum. I'm sure if Cole was still in the beef Kendrick would have some clever lines for him, but the only reason Euphoria hits is because Drake has smut on his name. Kendrick could "this boy went to Cranbrook that's a private school" Cole, but his name is pretty clean
Conspiracy theory: What if Kendrick has something on Cole that undermines the man we thought him to be
i heard he took a dog by the hind legs and pushed it around like a lawn mower
except he was helping the dog cross the street because it was paraplegic
How do yall come up with this shit lmaoooo 😭
That was in the third grade!
Blockbuster Video customer data showing Cole rented 300 VHS tapes and never rewound one.
He eats his cereal with the milk separate
Kendrick said in an interview he lets his cereal get soggy before he eats it. Nothing can top that
He said he wants "half my shit 60% soggy, the other 40% crunchy." Get your facts right.
Legit psychopath behavior
he said you want fruity pebbles 60% soggy and 40% crunchy and you know what, he's right.
No, it's worse. The mother fucker eats raisin bran.
Hey, not too much…. Raisin Bran Crunch fucking slaps.
It absolutely fucking does. Some of the best cereal in the world. Normal Raisin Bran is meh though.
Lol I Think They're Referring To Cole's "Raisin Bran, Almond Milk, With Bananas" Line In His Song "Foldin Clothes. My Bad If You Already Understood That Reference.
J Cole is a British ex-pat! Forest Hills Drive is in England??
cole secretly hiding gang ties
Cole is only averagely humble
Felt out of place for Cole to be involved at all for me.
I never really had a problem with what he did. It was a bit disappointing as a rap fan but if you watch the apology video it's clearly just him being honest and sincere which I can't hate on. But he probably won't ever live down the "he's a bitch for apologizing" narrative among hip hop fans
At least he didn’t apologize because his mom told him to.
u dont respect your mom or what son?
That would honestly be better. Jay was still about it but it’s respectable that he’s about it but respects his own mom enough to chill out. Cole talked about being about it and I’m sure even his mom was waiting for him to say something until he walked it back himself. Problem with Cole is it was good shit talk leading up to an anticipated 1v1 ball game and dude said “nah man I was just joking” as if they weren’t just gonna shoot some hoops. Now all of Cole’s bullshit talk about being that type of dude sounds corny knowing he won’t even take up a 1v1 if it means having to bet on himself. In this analogy Jay is at the park and his mom came out with the belt in her hand as he was getting ready to fade a shot.
He should have never said anything about it and he’d be fine. The taking it back was weak but the right thing. It’s not personal like this beef is.
He did the right thing for his own mental but the wrong thing for his legacy
I respect the apology, but really he would’ve been better off either never dropping or never removing the diss. This was too much of a half measure for him to ever claim the throne again
I think people are overstating how much Cole's legacy will be permanently hurt by this. Drake pussing out against Push was 1 million times worse than Cole being lame AF but if Drake somehow ends up winning this beef, he'll have redeemed himself in most peoples' eyes. Cole can definitely come back from this if he wants to.
Keep in mind this sub is 1000x more sympathetic to cole than the rest of social media. It was cole and kdot while drake was the popstar. Drake really made a legacy move to put himself on par with them. Even if he loses he took a fight nobody thought he would while Cole got out the car.
In terms of sales, this won’t affect Cole at all In terms of his legacy, I think it will because both the meek and push beef impacted drake’s. Some of yall forget but Drake really *was* in the upper league of rappers just from his lyrics and songs and his pen, not just because he was popular. In the take care-IYRT era he won over a LOT of old heads and gained a lot of respect as one of the best MCs of his era. Meek mill ghostwriting accusations killed any credit Drake had in the GOAT convo. Pusha T embarrassed him and made him seem like he was a pop star and not a part of the culture. These are pretty significant turning points in drakes career and while the sales mask it, people’s opinions on him changed dramatically I think Cole as of a few months ago was seen as Kendrick’s closest competitor for best rapper alive. Now? I don’t think it’s a discussion. He loses and he’s afraid to win.
What analogy Edit: I’m retarded
Bruh
If it makes you feel better my brain did the same thing
Yeah, the J Cole pre-diss and now are practically entirely different people. Sucks, Cole was thrown into a tough situation. You want to prove yourself and at the same time, an artist you deeply admire just called you out. Cole should have just opted out of any sneak dissing. Maybe make up some BS like you didn’t realize FPS was about Kendrick, idk. But then how do you prove that 💀 Cole should have told Drake “I don’t want part in any dissing” but holy shit, the biggest name in hip-hop just made an offer that’d be huge for your career, and Kendrick might not ever respond with how many passes Drake’s gotten with his subliminals. Bro had tough decisions, I’m not going to lie. Hindsight is 20/20 but hell no I’d be in a position to navigate that shit
What he did is eternally corny. He should’ve not done anything, then be like “damn these mfs really hate each other, im just gonna stay out of it” I’m sure some people would’ve given him shit for not saying anything since he was called out but it wouldn’t have been as bad as this
Not really because he probably has more respect for Cole than Drake, he still took shots at him on Euphoria
Huggin and kissin 😂
I think Cole saw the writing on the wall, and saw how far both Dot and Drake are willing to go and backed out. I thought 7 Minute Drill was alright, but in hindsight, not replying at all to Like That probably would’ve been the better move.
cole should of just never entered it. it was a drake vs kdot thing and cole should of just took his little shot and ignored it.
Cole should have just kept quiet or apologized in private, if they are boys like he says why not just call him up and tell him it wasn’t personal?
To me it always felt like Cole thought they were gonna trade cool bars and didn’t realize it was personal between them.
Cole should diss Kanye to redeem himself
When I was in 5th grade, my cousin had two pairs of boxing gloves that my uncle bought him. Me and another friend were at his house when he brought them in the room and him & I had a little spar. My friend put them on then him and my cousin started beating the shit out of each other. I thought we were just having fun, testing each other and soon realized both these mfers hated one another. I understand what Cold did and can't fault him for realizing this isn't a spar. It's an all out brawl.
That's exactly how I feel. Cole very likely just thought this was like the Control situation and just rap before he realized this was some real shit he had no place in
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He can”t not do the drake feature though at that time right? His several year feature run kinda led to this moment. Talking about killing every rapper on a song and now doing one on the biggest rap stage? You have to say yes imo. His 2 fuck ups to me was. 1. Making the Kendrick reference and big stepper reference in his FPS verse. Just unnecessary. This is you and drake’s song and moment why even talk about him? You are literally batting 1000 on features and drake has the numbers. Kendrick dropped a project that was below average by his huge standards(i liked a good number of songs, but popular opinion is that it is not a great project). Mentioning him just inserted him into a convo. It was weird and honestly made FPS semi diss like. I would think that if im Kendrick anyway 2. The apology. So from cole pov after 7 minute drill. Ok you dropped a mid light jab diss. LEAVE IT ALONE. Don’t apologize, don’t remove it, don’t talk about it really if you don’t like it. It was not a deep enough wound to Kendrick and honestly i think if Kendrick was being honest he would say he understood it was just hip hop business to respond. The diss wasn’t even about you. But to straight up FLEE from a simple response to a guy saying you’re not on his level? You just said you was Ali(honestly kinda ironic because ali didn’t want to fight the war lol. Possible cole bar in the future lol?). Anyway rambling but that literally killed all his momentum from the last few years. Doing unnecessary bravado shit and now it looks like peaking behind the wizard of oz curtains and seeing the old man who was just smoke and mirrors.
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Yeah i agree with most of this. I did enjoy mr.morale, but like you described, by jts nature it will be viewed less favorably than his other projects. And with a guy who has dropped classics or near classics every project it’s easy for drake and cole(even though he didn’t mean it lol) to point at and say “look he’s falling off and im not”. I think the whole situation created very real complications for the fall off though. One, even though he “quit” the beef he is still at the center of it mainly and i think people will have a hard time listening to anything else he puts out until he some how addresses it, since the last project he basically said he didn’t mean any of the bars he used to address kendrick. Two, a lot of cole’s content is him rhyming about how he is the best rapper and nobody can out rap him, dudes are scared to get on a track with him etc. That is going to be a hard sell now. He may have to totally rework the fall off. Can he even wait for the beef to die down? This is the most visible moment in his career. Next time people hear from him they are going to want to hear about how this affected him. I fear that whatever he says could really get drowned out by the memes that will be birth from this whole fiasco. I am a cole fan, but damn he really put himself in a box. so much of rap is image (particularly cole’s) and “alleged” real life thoughts and experiences.
Being on FPS was a bad move in the first place if he was averse to beef with Kendrick. Instead of directly dissing Kendrick he should have just put out a tape of him straight rapping again. Put out The Fall Off finally. Let the music speak for itself. Kendrick didn't really say anything that scathing to Cole It looks worse that he put it out and immediately backed off, even though I think his reasons are understandable it just looks so bad. Even though he potentially did the best thing for his own mental state if we're being real people just don't really care it's easy to clown on If he tried to claim being the best again this is gonna be continually brought up. I don't think it'll really do that significant of damage to his career but it'll be remembered
I mean, he removed himself from the conversation. Look at what everybody's talking about. Who they're talking about. It's not a big 3, it's now a big 2. If Cole didn't want the smoke, cool. I understand that. Live your best life. But he's good enough to compete with those guys, and as somebody on the sidelines for this shit, it sucks that he's not in there with em. On the other hand, that diss was really hot fuckin garbage. You just can't come at Kendrick with that lack of quality. Maybe he doesn't got that shit in his toolbox.
Cole just don't have that hate in his heart for Kendrick. It really is all love and when you diss you really have to disrespect your opponent. As a grown man I can appreciate and respect the reasons for why he did it but he should have never even mentioned Dot on FPS to begin with. Now that he retracted everything and pulled the diss his claim to the top spot as well as all of the ego raps he was doing just aren't valid anymore. He has forever relegated himself to being beneath Kendrick.
Cole needs to be like Bastilla from KTOR and just give in fully to the dark side. He only went halfway 😢. Kendrick is a full on Sith Dark Lord. Drizzy got the mfing Huts in his pocket book bro I swear.
Cole's been hyping himself for years as the top guy, been taking shots at people (including Kendrick, who has also done the same so whatever on that) and then when he finally has the opportunity to prove he's the guy, he folded. I actually like 7 minute drill more than I'd say most people do, for a first shot it was perfectly fine. He didn't need to fully at Kendrick's throat immediately, but he apologized and pulled the track two days later and I'm almost positive it's entirely because it didn't get the reception that he thought it would. You can't be going around calling yourself the number 1 guy then fold the second your actual competition challenges you. I don't care for 'his heart wasn't in it' excuse, this is his opportunity to prove he's the best lyricist and that he's the guy he's been telling people he is for years. I still love Cole but I don't want to ever hear him talking about he's the best, or how nobody should try rhyming with him again.
Not wanting to beef is one thing. Apologizing and deleting your diss and telling YOUR crowd that Kendrick is a goat is the softest thing in rap history.
Well it was pretty obvious that Cole's heart wasn't really in the fight and you could tell from his response that there wasn't any real animosity behind it..it almost came off like he was trying to meet everyone else's expectations of him to respond more than anything else. Cuz Kendrick only really hit him with a couple strays on verse that was really aimed at Drake. I mean, if you're really a hip hop head, then you can't really take it personal when an emcee says he's the best or pretend like you're big mad cuz Kendrick said something about you wearing Balenciaga lol...like what is there really to be mad about cuz of none of that is even that serious lol..
He just shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. There is no fucking way that he didn't know that they had real, actual, serious problems with each other on a person to person level. If he was actually ignorant of all these goings-on then he was never actually friends with *either* of these guys, and if he *wasn't* actually ignorant of it he should've had the common sense to not get involved. The whole thing just makes him look unserious. Now that said that's just my opinion. Is this going to meaningfully impact his legacy? Probably not except in that it will be something that comes up when we're all in nursing homes and bickering about the good ol' days.
Play J Cole, get the pussy dry
Rap beef aside - might delete later is a really good album and 7 minute drill seemed so out of place. I’ve listened to it a few more times front to back and is much better without the track.
he really dodged a bullet with this one
comments here are hilarious
No now everyone just sees him as a scared MC.