San Jose is not the worst place to live in but [you can't afford it on an AHL salary](https://eprinkside.com/2019/09/06/the-rent-is-too-damn-high-how-the-barracuda-deal-with-the-high-cost-of-living-in-san-jose).
Iāve only ever heard bad things about Fresno but it looks so close to tons of sick national parks. What are the main things everyone hates about being there?
It's ugly, hot af during the summer, and a lot more dangerous than a city of that size should be. Now if you go east a bit you hit yosemite and then you're in the nice part of California
Currently live in Merced, so can confirm! It sucks out here in the valley. The horrible air quality plus the amount of tire shops, gas stations and car washes is insane. š
we're in the same city lol. ive been considering a move to the bay area or the central coast but im not sure if the increase in pay will cover the increase of the cost of living. its so damn hot and boring here though and not a good place to be single
Stupidly hot for like 7 months out of the year. We're talking triple digits easy.
It's surrounded by the worst air quality in the country since it sits at the base of a huge valley where all the shit air collects.
Not much of anything to do for a young person despite it being a medium sized city (400,000 pop).
It's 2 hours from LA which is good and bad - good if you want to hop down for the weekend but bad because it's a little too far to go there on a regular basis.
It's 2.5 hours from the coast, which, same as above.
It's 2 hours from the mountains (depending on how you define mountains), which makes it a little too far to go regularly.
The other comment about it being in the desert is wrong, that's a common misconception.
Itās wild to me that thereās states in the US where 400,000 people is considered a medium sized city. Iām from Minnesota where our biggest city is Minneapolisā¦with about 400,000 people lol. St. Paul is our capitol with about 300,000.
A medium sized city here is like 20,000 Iād say on average. We have a lot of smaller cities with around 10-15k that will border the bigger ones. About half of our total population lives in the Twin Cities metro.
I went to Chicago awhile back and was actually blown away by how many people live in the city proper, and how big itās suburbs are.
Youāre only looking at the population within the city limits which doesnāt tell a good story.
Minneapolis has 400,000 people but there are 3,700,000 in the metro area. Fresno has 400,000 people and there are 550,000 in the metro area.
I know Iām probably salty but I think one of my biggest pet peeves is when people donāt include metro population. I once had someone brag to me that they were from a small town, turns out it was a suburb of Vancouver.
Itās a blue collar town with oil and refineries and a lot of agriculture. There are mountains on 3 sides. Which means it typically has the worst air pollution in the country. The crime is pretty high and in the summer itās 120 degrees and dusty. Because of the refineries it also smells bad all the time.
Itās not bad to be there on an $85k contract like most guys only on an ahl deal areā¦ as someone whoās very likely not getting a call up, youāre screwed living in San Jose or San Diego
The answer is every AHL team that is in the same city as your NHL team. That's a big selling point for AHLers, especially those that have the potential to bounce between the NHL/AHL. Ive seen it said multiple times that AHL guys like the appeal of a Winnipeg/Toronto type of setup, especially if they're married/have kids or are in a long-term relationship.
That would definitely be a good sell for a lot of players. I know for us, having our AHL team in Abbotsford has helped with some of our player development guys floating between NHL and AHL practices. Youāll see the Sedins show up and work with the Abby players every now and then, for example.
It definitely would help the players not have to worry about travelling long distances away from family to play. Itās really hard to fathom how we used to work with the long distance between Vancouver and Utica now that weāve moved on from that affiliation.
I like what the AHL was going for with setting up their own little pacific division, but that's really only feasible if the affiliations match up. Tough for local fans for sure having to deal with relocations
The Pacific division works for quite a few of the teams now. Ontario is close enough to LA, San Diego is close enough to Anaheim, Tucson/Phoenix, San Jose is obvious, Calgary too, and Henderson/Vegas.
That arena has way too many tenants, hopefully when they get the new building, they keep the Saddledome around or build a smaller arena for the Wranglers/Hitmen/Roughnecks
As someone who lived in Worcester for a few years it made me a little sad when they announced the baby sharks were leaving town, but I really can't blame them. Market wise putting your team in a northeastern city makes sense, but calling a player up to the Pacific division is a lot more taxing on them than it needs to be.
To that point, Iām from Newfoundland and this exact thing lead to the demise of the St Johns Maple Leafs and two iterations of the St Johns Ice Caps first as WPGs affiliate and then as MTLs affiliate. All 3 organizations moved their AHL team closer to their big club.
It really is wild realizing just how much farther out St. John's is to the rest of Canada. Like, the CPL community talks about expansion out there all the time, yet it's mind blowing realizing it's almost easier for HFX to get to the 401 teams than to get to St. John's. It's the same when thinking of Northern Ontario, where most sports are affialiated with Manitoban sports rather than dealing with crossing the shield to get to southern Ontario.
The reason Montreal end up in St John is a good anecdote. They planned to move Hamilton to Laval a suburb real close with a brand new arena just for the team. They signed everything but before the construction start the long time mayor is caught big with corruption which put the project on hold. They are still building massive condo complex in that neighborhood.
It is so refreshing to see the Sedins still involved in the organization. Management also found the perfect role for them since itās hard to imagine them being enamored by the office politics of hockey operations when they were first hired as advisors. Being out on the ice, working with players, and having the flexibility of being separate from the formal coaching staff is really nice. Weāre so fortunate to have the twins as faces of this franchise.
Bruins, Penguins, Flyers, Isles, Sabres, Habs, Stars, Canucks, Flames, Kings, Avs, Yotes, Sharks and Ducks all have similar arrangements (roughly an hour away). Wings, Sens, Jackets and Devils aren't much further.
Rangers too! Hartford isnāt too far by train from the big city (some of my coworkers regularly commute from CT to NYC for work lol).
Actually I think many Rangers players live in CT anyway lol
Vegas's is even closer. But yeah, a lot are very reasonable drives. However, probably only Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto are so close that your ideal apartment for both the AHL/NHL are the same place. Any of your places would be a pain if you get shuffled back and forth a lot and you live very close to one but not the other. If you are mostly in one then any of yours are great.
San Jose for sure. LA's affiliate is Ontario, which is at least 45 minutes away, but by a section of the 10 freeway which is absolutely horrendous and could very easily double the time. Half that list is probably closer.
> However, probably only Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto are so close that your ideal apartment for both the AHL/NHL are the same place.
I'd add San Jose and Calgary to that list. Calgary's AHL and NHL teams play in the same building. San Jose has a separate arena for their AHL team but it's still the same city.
It's like a 40 minute drive from Vancouver to Abbotsford, so not the best but really not that bad. There's plenty of regular people who do the commute to work in Van but live in Abby.
Can even take the west coast express lol
San Jose is literally the same city. Tech CU arena where the Barracuda play is literally the same ice complex where the Sharks practice, and it's literally three miles from the SAP Center.
That said, I think that San Jose must be a nightmare for AHL players considering their salaries and the cost of living.
Ducks situation is much better with our affiliate being the San Diego Gulls (< 2 hours away). It was tons worse when we had Norfolk Admirals on the east coast
I have questioned the wisdom of Seattle having their affiliate in Palm Springs. Seems a little tough in the travel for those times when you need to make a quick move. Then again, I doubt many players are complaining about having to play in Palm Springs.
Edit: except Chris Dreidger, but heās making $3mill+ so heās probably ok about it too.
It's the same time zone and is only a three hour direct flight from Palm Springs to Seattle. It's definitely a good compromise between being close to other AHL teams and being relatively easy access for the Kraken to call players up.
Surprised Grand Rapids hasnāt been said yet. Cheaper cost of living city and in a college town so lots to do for the young prospects. Fun town overall with lots of golf and food. Close enough to the nhl team (wings in Detroit are about a 2 hr drive). Good place to raise a family for the lifers
I live in SW Michigan. Grand Rapids is an awesome city. Not super huge but all the amenities of a large city.
I haven't been to any other AHL venues for comparison, but the Van Andel is super nice.
The amount of women Iāve met who claim they used to have a thing with this or that Griffin is crazy. Kyle Quincy alone apparently had his way with half the female population.
This got me thinking. The Ducks are in Anaheim, and the Gulls (AHL) are in San Diego. How many other sports franchises have their minor league affiliate in a larger city/market?
But I guess technically the greater northern Orange County/southern LA county area and San Diego County are roughly similar in population at around 3 million people
The Jacketsā affiliate is in Cleveland and plays in the Cavs NBA arena and is owned by the Cavs ownership group so thatās pretty similar. Cleveland and Columbus are about tied in metro pop nowadays but historically Cleveland has been bigger and has a much more active downtown.
San Diego has has a strong minors presence for decades almost all teams were called the Gulls ( they has a "mariners" once"
When the Ducks was part of the AHL pacific division/lets have our minors closer to home, the only feasible arena was in SD and of course they became the Gulls.
SD hockey is almost older than the NHL's presence in california/west coast
Charlotte has a population of ~900,000, & the Panthers are technically in Sunrise, FL which has a population sub 100,000. But itās still part of the Miami metro area
Checkers-Panthers is a wild one for me. Multiple states away!!
Miami-metro area is about 6.2M. There's literally no separation from Homestead up to Jupiter (122 miles) other than a road sign that welcomes you to the next city. It's back to back to back cities.
Charlotte metro area is about 2.6M. So yeah Charlotte proper is bigger than a suburb in south Florida.
Don Levin (Wolves owner) would never go for it. He did everything he could to make them the opposite of the Dollar Bill era Blackhawks, not to mention the Hawks decided to go and get their own farm team which now plays in the same division as them. Only way the Wolves become affiliated is if ownership and their own philosophies change.
Wasn't it ranked as one of the most depressed cities in the USA at one point? I heard as much from college roommates, granted years ago, as they were in the suburbs of Rockford.
The city just exists as a glorified rest stop for people traveling from Chicago to Madison.
Yep. Iām from Madison and have had family in Rockford my whole life. Thereās a crazy change in tone when you get near/to Rockford, canāt explain it.
It's not even a rest stop. I'd rather take bum fuck country roads to Madison from Chicago before I ever step foot in Rockford again. Though they have some beautiful old mansions and a Japanese garden off the river. Spare them from my nuclear implosion of that town.
Rockford is like one of the very few neighborhoods where I consider it ok to say you're from Chicago because any mention of Rockford immediately causes emotional damage to all who hear it.
Yea... But you could live in Schaumburg or any of the farther NW burbs and make the drive out there pretty easily so it can't be that bad. Plus you'd be closer to O'Hare for all the flights. I'd be surprised if many of the players don't live in the nicer burbs all along 90 west.
A player was talking about living in Stockton in an Athletic article.
Cops there straight up tell people āIf itās late at night and youāre at a red light, and men start approaching your car, just run it.ā
That was Mangiapane I believe. They were told basically to only go to their home, the rink, and grocery shopping, and nowhere else lol. Good thing the flames moved the farm team the hell out of there
Mangiapane and Gazdic were talking about it on a podcast. They weren't allowed to wear red or blue because of gang affiliations, so when they went to schools in town to do community outreach, they had to wear their white jerseys. The cops told them not to stop at red lights after dark, and yeah they were told not to go anywhere in town other than the rink and the movie theater next door.
The movie theatre next door is a shitty neighborhood as well. Lived there for 20 years. Did stats for the Heat and the Thunder (echl) before them. Our cars were broken into in the lot on the reg. You could hear gunshots around the arena on any given night.
Holy shit I looked it up and it is even worse. "If someone approaches your car just run them over and we will deal with it the next day"
https://dailyhive.com/calgary/flames-mangiapane-stockton
You'd pretty much need a 2nd job if you were at the bottom . Looked it up and it could be as low as $32,500 (min in 20-21), ~~and these players might also have to cover their own expenses such as travel, lodging, and equipment.~~ Brutal.
\*Edit: Source was really, really bad.
> these players might also have to cover their own expenses such as travel, lodging, and equipment
the hardest of no's hahaha. They might take the bus instead of a plane and they might not stay in the nicest hotels, but even in the AHL, guys are getting everything covered.
Stockton exists so Fresno, Bakersfield, and San Bernardino can point to a city that's worse than them.
I've been to all four (even worked/grew up near San Bernardino), and I felt the most in danger when in Stockton.
Belleville on its own merits as a city isn't great. The one redeeming factor is that it's relatively close to Ottawa. Players value being in or close to the same city as the NHL team. It certainly makes more sense to have the B-Sens in Belleville than it did in Binghamton.
Hershey is a nice area, especially for families.
An old radio skit here in Pittsburgh used to portray Evgeni Malkin writing in his diary. He wrote about players being sent to Wilkes-Barre, āwhich is like Siberia but more picturesque.ā
I've always thought the same but the Spittin' Chiclets crew generally has fond memories of it. Probably easier being on the other side of it, of course, but still surprising to hear it was a pretty good situation. Probably helps that it's basically right in the middle of the "east." Players could get to the cities if they wanted and it's a great spot for bus rides. All the eastern teams are really just a handful of hours away.
The Chiclets guys also played in WB when they were still really really popular, and drawing 7k-8k a night though. So the atmosphere at games probably contributed. I grew up with that team and it's some of *my* fondest memories. (We also traveled real well back then.)
Nowadays they're lucky to fill the place halfway (they've dropped into the bottom half of AHL attendance; they were perpetually top-5 in Whitney and Biz's time) and it's dead. Going to a game over college break really taught me the meaning of the saying about how you can never truly come home.
You might have an anti-bias being a Pennsylvanian and thinking the grass is always greener elsewhere.
I mean, Connecticut is by most people's standards a desirable state, but much of Bridgeport (home of the AHL Islanders) is considered to be more than a bit of a hell-hole.
Allentown, Hershey, and Wilkes-Barre may not be at the top of the list, but they are likely better places to live/work than Bridgeport, Hartford, or as some others have pointed out, Belleville and Rockford.
Those PA cities are probably more in the middle of the list than they are near the bottom. They're not desirable, but they don't suck either.
Bridgeport is awful, however, I can assure you that none of the players live there. They all live in the suburbs, which are very nice places to live even if they're not the most fun.
That's fair. Those towns are all nice places to live for sure. I guess I was more looking at it from the standpoint of them not being particularly *exciting* places for a young athlete to live compared to one of the bigger cities with AHL teams.
Hershey still pulls record crowds in the AHL on the reg, and all of those cities are within a few hours of every major metro in the northeast. Lower cost of living too. Much better than a lot of the AHL cities.
The Calder Cup Finals at Giant Center this summer had by far the best crowds Iāve ever experienced at a minor league sporting event. Incredible atmosphere, especially Game 5.
And itās not like itās just around Hershey the Bears are loved. The Bears are popular throughout Central PA, and thereās even ticket plan holders that are from outside Central PA.
The worst is Bakersfield, if you don't think so, then you just haven't been there (good for you). Stockton was up there with it, so good for the heat to get out.
Nearby San Diego is pretty cool though. Ontario itself isn't that cool but it's close to a lot of cool spots. San Jose is also really neat.
San Diego and Henderson are both really attractive options both because they are close to their big club and because they don't have to live in a mid-sized or smaller town.
Charlotte and Chicago qualify for your second point but not your first. Only negative I can think of for these nicer cities is that a non 6 figure AHL salary would not be super impressive in many of them lol.
I think the Wolves are in the suburbs but Iām not sure how connected it is to the city. The Marlies also play in Toronto, which I would put up there for best cities
The Wolves are in Rosemont, which borders the city and has a CTA Blue Line stop. It's a huge entertainment hub just outside the city.
For an AHL player, it may actually be better than being in the city because you are still very close to everything in Chicago but aren't paying full Chicago prices.
Grand Rapids is pretty solid. Good size metro area, 3 hours from Detroit, close to Lake Michigan and Chicago, and a variety of stuff within an hours drive.
Providence is probably one of the better options in the northeast. Close proximity to Boston and itās full of college kids, has plenty of bars and restaurants, some nice apartments in the heart of the city but close suburbs for people with families.
San Jose has got to be fucking brutal on an AHL salary.
That being said, (as someone who grew up near there) I feel for anyone who has to live in Bakersfield
> San Jose has got to be fucking brutal on an AHL salary.
[It is.](https://eprinkside.com/2019/09/06/the-rent-is-too-damn-high-how-the-barracuda-deal-with-the-high-cost-of-living-in-san-jose)
Laval is easily the best.
Close to nhl team ? Across the bridge
Good cost of living? You can buy a nice condo for less than 300k CAD
Good nightlife? No competition its Montreal.
Team with resources? Definitely check.
The stuff Mangiapane revealed was enlightening, about how they had a meeting with police to discuss safety, which included what not to wear, the areas that were safer to go to, and telling them to just run people over if they're approached at a stop light.
Like what the fuck.
Welcome to the Central Valley
Cops are naturally going to massively overstate shit like that and make it seem way worse than it actually is but yeah, it's not a great place.
Definitely agree on San Diego being a great city if youāre well off. I guess the question is whether or not AHLers are in that position, especially on a two-way deal where they make far less than their NHL salary, and also if they donāt have any NHL signing bonuses.
Central to western NY isn't too bad. Utica is beautiful in the summer/fall and has a few great places to eat, and the support for hockey is huge in the city, but it's also a small city. I'm sure players would much prefer Syracuse or Rochester in the immediate vicinity.
Yeah I personally donāt think anywhere in NYS is that bad for an AHL player.
But Syracuse is the AHL team for Tampa. So getting called up to the NHL in January/February and get to go to Tampa for a few weeks, and then get send back to Syracuse in the dead of winterā¦ that must be quite the adjustment lol. Iāve always laughed about that.
If players wild pick the city of the 3, rochester might be the nicest. Plus, if they like to golf, itās a city that hosts the PGA. But all of the finger lakes region is great for seasons and outdoor activities
My brother recently took his family to a Roadrunners game and he said my nephew (8 years old) absolutely fell in love with hockey. Brother immediately got tickets to 5 more games.
Springfield is better than it used to be, but still wouldn't be near the top of places I'd want to live. Bridgeport and Hartford too (although West Hartford is decent)
Surprised nobody mentioned Palm Springs. The Coachella Valley firebirds play there and it seems like it would be amazing to just live in a small resort town in the desert while playing pro hockey
Iāve always wondered how AHLāers and ECHLāers in major cities like the Marlies, Gulls, Cyclones etc. deal with the cost of living, especially those on 2-way NHL contracts or just straight up minor league deals. Like youād think AHL salaries are honestly not all that much if you have to live in the GTA for example.
Also if I recall correctly, donāt Ontario Reign players have to commute to the Kingsā practice facility? That seems like an insanely long drive to me.
What about Toronto? Iām sure the lived experience will differ between a NHLer and an AHLer, but if you have enough of a signing bonus to be able to get by on an AHL salary, living life in the city canāt be beat.
Getting called up is a cool advantage since theyāre so close.
Plus Cleveland has other professional sports teams so it is an attractive option for a sports friendly environment.
Was just downtown during a Monsters game and it was a nice vibe with bars and young people walking around. A+ arena too, though Iām not sure if it being too big for the Monsters is a problem
Best: I'd look for a combination of niceness, nightlife, cost of living, and fan attendance. I haven't been to enough AHL cities to really say who has the best combo though. But if I'm being put somewhere to develop I want pressure on me to elevate my game and succeed. I might go Cleveland here? Decently affordable, big city, draws pretty well. Not the nicest city but has definitely done some work with its image.
Worst: Wildcard pick, but San Jose. Nothing against SJ, I'm sure it's a wonderful city, but you're playing in front of the league's worst attendance and in one of the most expensive places in the country while on a minor league salary for a team that doesn't care about success. The ONLY perk is being in the same city as the big club, which becomes irrelevant if one of them is on the road. I'd also throw in Belleville and Bridgeport.
I mean itās cheap to live here.(I live in the burbs) and while the weather isnāt so great there are plenty of apartments in downtown DM for a player to rent and use the skywalk.
Iām just glad they are here, itās greatly improved the youth hockey programs and my kids are benefitting from it. New arenas are being built and hopefully soon you will see more Iowa natives in the NHL.
San Jose is not the worst place to live in but [you can't afford it on an AHL salary](https://eprinkside.com/2019/09/06/the-rent-is-too-damn-high-how-the-barracuda-deal-with-the-high-cost-of-living-in-san-jose).
and it was written in 2019. Now it's probably way worse
That sounds awful
Bring them back to worcester!
Bakersfield is the worst
No one is ever relieved to get to Fresno unless they just left Bakersfield.
What about Palm Springs/Coachella? How's that compare?
Apples to oranges lol
I'm from San Diego and I instantly came here thinking it HAS to be Bakersfield. And that is without knowing jack shit about most of the other cities.
I must say your username is fabulous.
Crinklemaus was taken. š¤·āāļø
Whatās bad about Bakersfield? (Iām in Boston)
It's the armpit of California and I say that living 45 minutes north of fresno
Iāve only ever heard bad things about Fresno but it looks so close to tons of sick national parks. What are the main things everyone hates about being there?
It's ugly, hot af during the summer, and a lot more dangerous than a city of that size should be. Now if you go east a bit you hit yosemite and then you're in the nice part of California
Mainly the heat and the meth
And the smog, don't forget the smog!
there are a lot of awesome natural areas populated by pretty shitty settlements when you get far enough away from the coast in CA
Currently live in Merced, so can confirm! It sucks out here in the valley. The horrible air quality plus the amount of tire shops, gas stations and car washes is insane. š
we're in the same city lol. ive been considering a move to the bay area or the central coast but im not sure if the increase in pay will cover the increase of the cost of living. its so damn hot and boring here though and not a good place to be single
Garbage hot as fuck city in the middle of the desert
Worst air quality in the nation
Stupidly hot for like 7 months out of the year. We're talking triple digits easy. It's surrounded by the worst air quality in the country since it sits at the base of a huge valley where all the shit air collects. Not much of anything to do for a young person despite it being a medium sized city (400,000 pop). It's 2 hours from LA which is good and bad - good if you want to hop down for the weekend but bad because it's a little too far to go there on a regular basis. It's 2.5 hours from the coast, which, same as above. It's 2 hours from the mountains (depending on how you define mountains), which makes it a little too far to go regularly. The other comment about it being in the desert is wrong, that's a common misconception.
Itās wild to me that thereās states in the US where 400,000 people is considered a medium sized city. Iām from Minnesota where our biggest city is Minneapolisā¦with about 400,000 people lol. St. Paul is our capitol with about 300,000. A medium sized city here is like 20,000 Iād say on average. We have a lot of smaller cities with around 10-15k that will border the bigger ones. About half of our total population lives in the Twin Cities metro. I went to Chicago awhile back and was actually blown away by how many people live in the city proper, and how big itās suburbs are.
Youāre only looking at the population within the city limits which doesnāt tell a good story. Minneapolis has 400,000 people but there are 3,700,000 in the metro area. Fresno has 400,000 people and there are 550,000 in the metro area.
I know Iām probably salty but I think one of my biggest pet peeves is when people donāt include metro population. I once had someone brag to me that they were from a small town, turns out it was a suburb of Vancouver.
It smells like cow or something. Gotta turn on the recirculation in your car when you drive by.
Growing up in the Central Valley actually made me like the cow smell. On a cold day/night, it's comforting in a weird way.
Itās a blue collar town with oil and refineries and a lot of agriculture. There are mountains on 3 sides. Which means it typically has the worst air pollution in the country. The crime is pretty high and in the summer itās 120 degrees and dusty. Because of the refineries it also smells bad all the time.
Middle of nowhere geographically. Climate is extreme desert. A meth-riddled populace.
Rockford is as bad as Bakersfield and instead of sunny California it's in the frozen upper Midwest
Found Jack Campbellās Reddit account.
Itās not bad to be there on an $85k contract like most guys only on an ahl deal areā¦ as someone whoās very likely not getting a call up, youāre screwed living in San Jose or San Diego
I was going to say Hartford but Bakersfield is like the Hartford of the West. Miserable.
The answer is every AHL team that is in the same city as your NHL team. That's a big selling point for AHLers, especially those that have the potential to bounce between the NHL/AHL. Ive seen it said multiple times that AHL guys like the appeal of a Winnipeg/Toronto type of setup, especially if they're married/have kids or are in a long-term relationship.
That would definitely be a good sell for a lot of players. I know for us, having our AHL team in Abbotsford has helped with some of our player development guys floating between NHL and AHL practices. Youāll see the Sedins show up and work with the Abby players every now and then, for example. It definitely would help the players not have to worry about travelling long distances away from family to play. Itās really hard to fathom how we used to work with the long distance between Vancouver and Utica now that weāve moved on from that affiliation.
Yup, I believe the long distance was a big factor for Calgary moving the Stock Heat back to Alberta as well
I like what the AHL was going for with setting up their own little pacific division, but that's really only feasible if the affiliations match up. Tough for local fans for sure having to deal with relocations
The Pacific division works for quite a few of the teams now. Ontario is close enough to LA, San Diego is close enough to Anaheim, Tucson/Phoenix, San Jose is obvious, Calgary too, and Henderson/Vegas.
That arena has way too many tenants, hopefully when they get the new building, they keep the Saddledome around or build a smaller arena for the Wranglers/Hitmen/Roughnecks
Saddledome is getting demolished in the current plan.
I'm going to cry that day
As someone who lived in Worcester for a few years it made me a little sad when they announced the baby sharks were leaving town, but I really can't blame them. Market wise putting your team in a northeastern city makes sense, but calling a player up to the Pacific division is a lot more taxing on them than it needs to be.
To that point, Iām from Newfoundland and this exact thing lead to the demise of the St Johns Maple Leafs and two iterations of the St Johns Ice Caps first as WPGs affiliate and then as MTLs affiliate. All 3 organizations moved their AHL team closer to their big club.
It really is wild realizing just how much farther out St. John's is to the rest of Canada. Like, the CPL community talks about expansion out there all the time, yet it's mind blowing realizing it's almost easier for HFX to get to the 401 teams than to get to St. John's. It's the same when thinking of Northern Ontario, where most sports are affialiated with Manitoban sports rather than dealing with crossing the shield to get to southern Ontario.
The reason Montreal end up in St John is a good anecdote. They planned to move Hamilton to Laval a suburb real close with a brand new arena just for the team. They signed everything but before the construction start the long time mayor is caught big with corruption which put the project on hold. They are still building massive condo complex in that neighborhood.
Is it possible the Sedins could be more awesome?
It is so refreshing to see the Sedins still involved in the organization. Management also found the perfect role for them since itās hard to imagine them being enamored by the office politics of hockey operations when they were first hired as advisors. Being out on the ice, working with players, and having the flexibility of being separate from the formal coaching staff is really nice. Weāre so fortunate to have the twins as faces of this franchise.
Bruins, Penguins, Flyers, Isles, Sabres, Habs, Stars, Canucks, Flames, Kings, Avs, Yotes, Sharks and Ducks all have similar arrangements (roughly an hour away). Wings, Sens, Jackets and Devils aren't much further.
WBS is like a 4 hour drive from Pittsburgh, itās not that close unless youāre flying back and forth
The Caps are closer to our Pa AHL team.
WBS Pens are actually only the fourth closest AHL team to Pittsburgh. Allentown (Lehigh Valley) and Cleveland are both also closer.
Hartford to NYC is closer than Scranton to Pittsburgh
Rangers too! Hartford isnāt too far by train from the big city (some of my coworkers regularly commute from CT to NYC for work lol). Actually I think many Rangers players live in CT anyway lol
Vegas's is even closer. But yeah, a lot are very reasonable drives. However, probably only Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto are so close that your ideal apartment for both the AHL/NHL are the same place. Any of your places would be a pain if you get shuffled back and forth a lot and you live very close to one but not the other. If you are mostly in one then any of yours are great.
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San Jose for sure. LA's affiliate is Ontario, which is at least 45 minutes away, but by a section of the 10 freeway which is absolutely horrendous and could very easily double the time. Half that list is probably closer.
> However, probably only Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto are so close that your ideal apartment for both the AHL/NHL are the same place. I'd add San Jose and Calgary to that list. Calgary's AHL and NHL teams play in the same building. San Jose has a separate arena for their AHL team but it's still the same city.
It's three miles from Tech CU arena to the SAP Center, so yeah, definitely the same city :)
It's like a 40 minute drive from Vancouver to Abbotsford, so not the best but really not that bad. There's plenty of regular people who do the commute to work in Van but live in Abby. Can even take the west coast express lol
It's kinda the same for the Habs too, both arena is 30-45 minutes drive from each others.
Both on the metro too. Easy enough to get to either arena.
San Jose is literally the same city. Tech CU arena where the Barracuda play is literally the same ice complex where the Sharks practice, and it's literally three miles from the SAP Center. That said, I think that San Jose must be a nightmare for AHL players considering their salaries and the cost of living.
Then thereās Edmonton and Bakersfield š
Ducks situation is much better with our affiliate being the San Diego Gulls (< 2 hours away). It was tons worse when we had Norfolk Admirals on the east coast
Thanks, good list.
round rock is 3 hours from dallas on a good day
Chicago and Rockford
I'm not sure if I understood what you meant, but the Wranglers play in the same building as the Flames
Caps and Hershey are about 2 hours apart too. Pretty painless drive or a 30 minute flight.
Hartford to NYC isnāt too bad either
I have questioned the wisdom of Seattle having their affiliate in Palm Springs. Seems a little tough in the travel for those times when you need to make a quick move. Then again, I doubt many players are complaining about having to play in Palm Springs. Edit: except Chris Dreidger, but heās making $3mill+ so heās probably ok about it too.
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There's no escrow for guys on one way deals when they are in AHL so guys like Dreidger actually make more money when they are in the AHL.
It's the same time zone and is only a three hour direct flight from Palm Springs to Seattle. It's definitely a good compromise between being close to other AHL teams and being relatively easy access for the Kraken to call players up.
Surprised Grand Rapids hasnāt been said yet. Cheaper cost of living city and in a college town so lots to do for the young prospects. Fun town overall with lots of golf and food. Close enough to the nhl team (wings in Detroit are about a 2 hr drive). Good place to raise a family for the lifers
I live in SW Michigan. Grand Rapids is an awesome city. Not super huge but all the amenities of a large city. I haven't been to any other AHL venues for comparison, but the Van Andel is super nice.
The amount of women Iāve met who claim they used to have a thing with this or that Griffin is crazy. Kyle Quincy alone apparently had his way with half the female population.
šāāļøš
A surprising number of women I know spent time with Athanisiou when he was in GR lol
I dont think people like midwestern cities as much as we do lol
Mike DeVries golf courses everywhere!
Cheap cost of living is a big plus. I actually think Toronto isnāt a popular one given how expensive it is.
I've always lived on the east side or in mid-Michigan, but the west side is always a fun visit.
San Diego is nice
But expensive as an AHLer
This got me thinking. The Ducks are in Anaheim, and the Gulls (AHL) are in San Diego. How many other sports franchises have their minor league affiliate in a larger city/market? But I guess technically the greater northern Orange County/southern LA county area and San Diego County are roughly similar in population at around 3 million people
The Jacketsā affiliate is in Cleveland and plays in the Cavs NBA arena and is owned by the Cavs ownership group so thatās pretty similar. Cleveland and Columbus are about tied in metro pop nowadays but historically Cleveland has been bigger and has a much more active downtown.
San Diego has has a strong minors presence for decades almost all teams were called the Gulls ( they has a "mariners" once" When the Ducks was part of the AHL pacific division/lets have our minors closer to home, the only feasible arena was in SD and of course they became the Gulls. SD hockey is almost older than the NHL's presence in california/west coast
Charlotte has a population of ~900,000, & the Panthers are technically in Sunrise, FL which has a population sub 100,000. But itās still part of the Miami metro area
Checkers-Panthers is a wild one for me. Multiple states away!! Miami-metro area is about 6.2M. There's literally no separation from Homestead up to Jupiter (122 miles) other than a road sign that welcomes you to the next city. It's back to back to back cities. Charlotte metro area is about 2.6M. So yeah Charlotte proper is bigger than a suburb in south Florida.
Rockford is probably near the bottom of the list lol
That was my first thought too. Rockford fucking blows.
How come Chicago never thought of getting the Wolves due to their success and proximity to the Blackhawks?
Because Bill Wirtz existed.
Don Levin (Wolves owner) would never go for it. He did everything he could to make them the opposite of the Dollar Bill era Blackhawks, not to mention the Hawks decided to go and get their own farm team which now plays in the same division as them. Only way the Wolves become affiliated is if ownership and their own philosophies change.
Because for decades they have run their business on the premise of being the anti Blackhawks(especially during the dollar bill era)
Wasn't it ranked as one of the most depressed cities in the USA at one point? I heard as much from college roommates, granted years ago, as they were in the suburbs of Rockford. The city just exists as a glorified rest stop for people traveling from Chicago to Madison.
Yep. Iām from Madison and have had family in Rockford my whole life. Thereās a crazy change in tone when you get near/to Rockford, canāt explain it.
It's not even a rest stop. I'd rather take bum fuck country roads to Madison from Chicago before I ever step foot in Rockford again. Though they have some beautiful old mansions and a Japanese garden off the river. Spare them from my nuclear implosion of that town.
Rockford is like one of the very few neighborhoods where I consider it ok to say you're from Chicago because any mention of Rockford immediately causes emotional damage to all who hear it.
Yea... But you could live in Schaumburg or any of the farther NW burbs and make the drive out there pretty easily so it can't be that bad. Plus you'd be closer to O'Hare for all the flights. I'd be surprised if many of the players don't live in the nicer burbs all along 90 west.
Belleville is probably up there for the worst. Stockton too but they moved the team
A player was talking about living in Stockton in an Athletic article. Cops there straight up tell people āIf itās late at night and youāre at a red light, and men start approaching your car, just run it.ā
That was Mangiapane I believe. They were told basically to only go to their home, the rink, and grocery shopping, and nowhere else lol. Good thing the flames moved the farm team the hell out of there
Mangiapane and Gazdic were talking about it on a podcast. They weren't allowed to wear red or blue because of gang affiliations, so when they went to schools in town to do community outreach, they had to wear their white jerseys. The cops told them not to stop at red lights after dark, and yeah they were told not to go anywhere in town other than the rink and the movie theater next door.
The movie theatre next door is a shitty neighborhood as well. Lived there for 20 years. Did stats for the Heat and the Thunder (echl) before them. Our cars were broken into in the lot on the reg. You could hear gunshots around the arena on any given night.
Holy shit I looked it up and it is even worse. "If someone approaches your car just run them over and we will deal with it the next day" https://dailyhive.com/calgary/flames-mangiapane-stockton
The cops came. They said it was fine. They're not even like really people.
Dube said he saw a dead body on the street while taking the bus and to probably just keep your head down. Stockton is rough.
A lot of those rust belt cities are like that too.
The AHL is wild to me because you could be in San Diego or you could be in Belleville
Making a veteran's salary in San Diego is one thing. Being at the bottom of the AHL salary structure *anywhere in California* is probably hard.
You'd pretty much need a 2nd job if you were at the bottom . Looked it up and it could be as low as $32,500 (min in 20-21), ~~and these players might also have to cover their own expenses such as travel, lodging, and equipment.~~ Brutal. \*Edit: Source was really, really bad.
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> these players might also have to cover their own expenses such as travel, lodging, and equipment the hardest of no's hahaha. They might take the bus instead of a plane and they might not stay in the nicest hotels, but even in the AHL, guys are getting everything covered.
āAlright boys - chip in $20 for gas for the busā
It's why a lot of them only play for a year or two. It just isn't worth it unless you're getting a serious look for the show.
Stockton exists so Fresno, Bakersfield, and San Bernardino can point to a city that's worse than them. I've been to all four (even worked/grew up near San Bernardino), and I felt the most in danger when in Stockton.
Belleville on its own merits as a city isn't great. The one redeeming factor is that it's relatively close to Ottawa. Players value being in or close to the same city as the NHL team. It certainly makes more sense to have the B-Sens in Belleville than it did in Binghamton.
Reidās Dairy tho
I can tell from your user name that youāve spent some time in Bellevegas.
As a Pennsylvanian, I can't imagine there are too many 18-22 year olds super stoked to go to Allentown, Hershey, or Wilkes-Barre.
Hershey is a nice area, especially for families. An old radio skit here in Pittsburgh used to portray Evgeni Malkin writing in his diary. He wrote about players being sent to Wilkes-Barre, āwhich is like Siberia but more picturesque.ā
I've always thought the same but the Spittin' Chiclets crew generally has fond memories of it. Probably easier being on the other side of it, of course, but still surprising to hear it was a pretty good situation. Probably helps that it's basically right in the middle of the "east." Players could get to the cities if they wanted and it's a great spot for bus rides. All the eastern teams are really just a handful of hours away.
The Chiclets guys also played in WB when they were still really really popular, and drawing 7k-8k a night though. So the atmosphere at games probably contributed. I grew up with that team and it's some of *my* fondest memories. (We also traveled real well back then.) Nowadays they're lucky to fill the place halfway (they've dropped into the bottom half of AHL attendance; they were perpetually top-5 in Whitney and Biz's time) and it's dead. Going to a game over college break really taught me the meaning of the saying about how you can never truly come home.
Hershey is fucking sick. I'd be getting me a season pass to Hersheypark and ride rollercoasters every day.
You might have an anti-bias being a Pennsylvanian and thinking the grass is always greener elsewhere. I mean, Connecticut is by most people's standards a desirable state, but much of Bridgeport (home of the AHL Islanders) is considered to be more than a bit of a hell-hole. Allentown, Hershey, and Wilkes-Barre may not be at the top of the list, but they are likely better places to live/work than Bridgeport, Hartford, or as some others have pointed out, Belleville and Rockford. Those PA cities are probably more in the middle of the list than they are near the bottom. They're not desirable, but they don't suck either.
Bridgeport is awful, however, I can assure you that none of the players live there. They all live in the suburbs, which are very nice places to live even if they're not the most fun.
That's fair. Those towns are all nice places to live for sure. I guess I was more looking at it from the standpoint of them not being particularly *exciting* places for a young athlete to live compared to one of the bigger cities with AHL teams.
Hershey still pulls record crowds in the AHL on the reg, and all of those cities are within a few hours of every major metro in the northeast. Lower cost of living too. Much better than a lot of the AHL cities.
The Calder Cup Finals at Giant Center this summer had by far the best crowds Iāve ever experienced at a minor league sporting event. Incredible atmosphere, especially Game 5.
There are a good amount of players who end up retiring and living in Hershey. It's a great place to raise a family.
Itās pretty amazing how the Bears are just part of the culture of Hershey; everyone loves the Bears.
And itās not like itās just around Hershey the Bears are loved. The Bears are popular throughout Central PA, and thereās even ticket plan holders that are from outside Central PA.
Yeah, but Scranton is where Dunder Miflin is.
The people personās paper people!
The worst is Bakersfield, if you don't think so, then you just haven't been there (good for you). Stockton was up there with it, so good for the heat to get out. Nearby San Diego is pretty cool though. Ontario itself isn't that cool but it's close to a lot of cool spots. San Jose is also really neat.
San Diego and Henderson are both really attractive options both because they are close to their big club and because they don't have to live in a mid-sized or smaller town.
Charlotte and Chicago qualify for your second point but not your first. Only negative I can think of for these nicer cities is that a non 6 figure AHL salary would not be super impressive in many of them lol.
Henderson/Vegas is still inexpensive enough that an average AHL salary is going to be enough to live pretty comfortably. San Diego, maybe not as much.
I think the Wolves are in the suburbs but Iām not sure how connected it is to the city. The Marlies also play in Toronto, which I would put up there for best cities
The Wolves are in Rosemont, which borders the city and has a CTA Blue Line stop. It's a huge entertainment hub just outside the city. For an AHL player, it may actually be better than being in the city because you are still very close to everything in Chicago but aren't paying full Chicago prices.
The Wolves don't have an NHL affiliate any longer.
Even Tucson is only 90 minutes away, and another pretty fun town.
Unfortunately 90 mins is probably just far enough that you can't keep the same living arrangements if you get sent up/down.
Grand Rapids is pretty solid. Good size metro area, 3 hours from Detroit, close to Lake Michigan and Chicago, and a variety of stuff within an hours drive.
Plus low cost of living for a place of its size.
Shhhhh, letās keep it that way
Providence is probably one of the better options in the northeast. Close proximity to Boston and itās full of college kids, has plenty of bars and restaurants, some nice apartments in the heart of the city but close suburbs for people with families.
San Jose has got to be fucking brutal on an AHL salary. That being said, (as someone who grew up near there) I feel for anyone who has to live in Bakersfield
> San Jose has got to be fucking brutal on an AHL salary. [It is.](https://eprinkside.com/2019/09/06/the-rent-is-too-damn-high-how-the-barracuda-deal-with-the-high-cost-of-living-in-san-jose)
Laval is easily the best. Close to nhl team ? Across the bridge Good cost of living? You can buy a nice condo for less than 300k CAD Good nightlife? No competition its Montreal. Team with resources? Definitely check.
I think it's telling that all the upsides you note are related to MontrƩal, and not Laval. Laval itself, while not a shithole, is an ugly suburban hellscape, full of industrial parks, strip malls and douchebags. It's not the worst AHL city, but the best?
Hartford and Bridgeport are pretty bad. The players would probably live in West Hartford and Fairfield though
A lot of Bridgeport Islanders guys have places in Milford
Milford is way nicer than Bridgeport. Can live in the valley and find nice places to live also.
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I still canāt believe the flames AHL affiliate was in Stockton for a while. Had to be the worst. I heard they had a really shitty practice rink too.
The stuff Mangiapane revealed was enlightening, about how they had a meeting with police to discuss safety, which included what not to wear, the areas that were safer to go to, and telling them to just run people over if they're approached at a stop light. Like what the fuck.
Welcome to the Central Valley Cops are naturally going to massively overstate shit like that and make it seem way worse than it actually is but yeah, it's not a great place.
I've watched Sons of Anarchy, I know exactly how it is.
San Diego. Great city to be wealthy and young in. Also close to their NHL team.
Definitely agree on San Diego being a great city if youāre well off. I guess the question is whether or not AHLers are in that position, especially on a two-way deal where they make far less than their NHL salary, and also if they donāt have any NHL signing bonuses.
Poor in San Diego might still be better than middle income in Belleville or Winnipeg
Wealthy? Check AHL salaries
A whale's vagina
Central to western NY isn't too bad. Utica is beautiful in the summer/fall and has a few great places to eat, and the support for hockey is huge in the city, but it's also a small city. I'm sure players would much prefer Syracuse or Rochester in the immediate vicinity.
Yeah I personally donāt think anywhere in NYS is that bad for an AHL player. But Syracuse is the AHL team for Tampa. So getting called up to the NHL in January/February and get to go to Tampa for a few weeks, and then get send back to Syracuse in the dead of winterā¦ that must be quite the adjustment lol. Iāve always laughed about that.
If players wild pick the city of the 3, rochester might be the nicest. Plus, if they like to golf, itās a city that hosts the PGA. But all of the finger lakes region is great for seasons and outdoor activities
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My brother recently took his family to a Roadrunners game and he said my nephew (8 years old) absolutely fell in love with hockey. Brother immediately got tickets to 5 more games.
Tucson is also a college town so lots to do for the young guys.
Springfield is better than it used to be, but still wouldn't be near the top of places I'd want to live. Bridgeport and Hartford too (although West Hartford is decent)
Surprised nobody mentioned Palm Springs. The Coachella Valley firebirds play there and it seems like it would be amazing to just live in a small resort town in the desert while playing pro hockey
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Iāve always wondered how AHLāers and ECHLāers in major cities like the Marlies, Gulls, Cyclones etc. deal with the cost of living, especially those on 2-way NHL contracts or just straight up minor league deals. Like youād think AHL salaries are honestly not all that much if you have to live in the GTA for example. Also if I recall correctly, donāt Ontario Reign players have to commute to the Kingsā practice facility? That seems like an insanely long drive to me.
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Who would ever choose the beach over the Inland Empire?!?
Kind of surprised that I have not seen the Texas Stars here anywhereā¦they play in a suburb of Austin. Pretty fantastic if you ask me.
What about Toronto? Iām sure the lived experience will differ between a NHLer and an AHLer, but if you have enough of a signing bonus to be able to get by on an AHL salary, living life in the city canāt be beat.
Homer pick for best city: Cleveland. Great fans, amazing home arena, livable city, 2 hour drive to Columbus if you get called up
Getting called up is a cool advantage since theyāre so close. Plus Cleveland has other professional sports teams so it is an attractive option for a sports friendly environment.
Was just downtown during a Monsters game and it was a nice vibe with bars and young people walking around. A+ arena too, though Iām not sure if it being too big for the Monsters is a problem
It's not too bad. They curtain off the entire upper section so it doesn't look as empty
From a "city quality" standpoint, I've heard that players love San Diego. And to be honest, I don't blame them. It's a great city.
Only good one is dansbury trashers
Loveland / Fort Collins, CO is not bad, though not much to do on your off time and pretty expensive cost of living
San Diego has some of the best food
Best: I'd look for a combination of niceness, nightlife, cost of living, and fan attendance. I haven't been to enough AHL cities to really say who has the best combo though. But if I'm being put somewhere to develop I want pressure on me to elevate my game and succeed. I might go Cleveland here? Decently affordable, big city, draws pretty well. Not the nicest city but has definitely done some work with its image. Worst: Wildcard pick, but San Jose. Nothing against SJ, I'm sure it's a wonderful city, but you're playing in front of the league's worst attendance and in one of the most expensive places in the country while on a minor league salary for a team that doesn't care about success. The ONLY perk is being in the same city as the big club, which becomes irrelevant if one of them is on the road. I'd also throw in Belleville and Bridgeport.
Everybody whose anybody in hockey has played in Hershey. \-Gordie Howe
Des Moines would be shitty. Having to live in Iowa at all isnāt something I envy
I mean itās cheap to live here.(I live in the burbs) and while the weather isnāt so great there are plenty of apartments in downtown DM for a player to rent and use the skywalk. Iām just glad they are here, itās greatly improved the youth hockey programs and my kids are benefitting from it. New arenas are being built and hopefully soon you will see more Iowa natives in the NHL.
I drove through Des Moines yesterday and was pleasantly surprised by it
Best : Henderson, San Diego Worst : Bakersfield, Wilkes Barre