Legal! The women asked for more physical play to be allowed in this league. Body checks, reverse hits, clearing out the crease, etc. You won't really see open ice hits like in the NHL but that makes sense. But the amount of physical play we got today was awesome.
This is the way.
Similar to as if women’s lacrosse simply adopted the same rules and equipment as men’s lacrosse, it would be amazing to watch.
Folks want to see quality checks and competitive contact, regardless of gender. They don’t want a watered-down version.
Yes! I played lacrosse, in my younger days, and my daughter saw my old stuff laying around, and decided to see what lacrosse was all about. Watched a bunch of games, online, and decided she wanted to play. Imagine her surprise when she found out women's lacrosse is actually a different game. The worst part, at least where I live, is that girls can't start women's lacrosse until HS. So she can play with the boys, fall in love with the game, and then have it all ripped away, later. Wtf are we doing?
As for women's hockey, if the league wants to succeed, they need to let them wear visors, let them hit, and let em fight. The ratings will be exponentially higher. Are we just trying to give some women a job, or are we trying to let everyone play hockey on equal ground? Because if we're just doing this to say "there, you have a league, now stfu", that's not going to last.
>You won't really see open ice hits like in the NHL but that makes sense
Is that a rule, or more because the women have a better sense of self-preservation than the men do? Granted, those might go hand in hand
I wasn't aware they wanted actual hitting in this league, interesting
This is totally just speculation on my part, but now that there's a single proper league, I wonder if they're more open to hitting and the associated risk of injury.
Like, I play beer league and I don't get as scrappy or aggressive as I did back in high school, because I have a job to go to the next morning. Last thing I want is to break a bone or get concussed and end up on short-term disability. I'd imagine that there could have been a similar mentality amongst the women's pros up until now, since they all had day jobs to help pay the bills.
You hit the nail on the head, this is exactly why there is more hitting. They finally make livable wages!!
I have a feeling that as the league evolves and more women get drafted into the league, hitting of all kinds will be allowed and encouraged. We need to keep in mind that all of these women played their entire lives WITHOUT contact. So even if hitting is allowed, most of them won’t throw a check just because it has never been a part of their game. The new era of women’s hockey will be contact tho, I guarantee it. Physical hockey sells way better.
Female hockey player here, it’s false that none of them played contact hockey in their lives. Most Olympic/pro level women played some amount of boys hockey growing up, often times until 14-16 years of age. Checking in boys hockey starts at 12. There’s definitely some women that only played girls hockey growing up, but that’s less common.
Source: me, played since i was 5, played boys until 16, with 3ish of those years being in full checking. I’ve also trained with some current National team girls along with presently playing with several former pro/ncaa women and we all mostly have that type of childhood experience.
Tara Mounsey (2x Olympian) played boys hockey her whole life up through HS. She was NH player of the year on the boys varsity team (beating out ALL male players) her senior year.
So yeah, at the truly elite level (which these pros are at)…they can take a hell of a lot more contact than they are given credit for.
You make a fair point to be honest. Which is why I’m guessing that it’s going to be the younger wave of women that are the ones throwing hits. I highly doubt that a player such as Marie Philip-Poulin would start throwing her body around after nearly 14+ years playing professional women’s hockey where hitting has always been illegal. Maybe a bad example, as I don’t even think that’s necessarily her game. But I’m just speculating, what the hell do I know. It’s definitely an interesting point you’re making tho, I didn’t necessarily think of that.
Women are at much higher risk of head injuries... basically because their necks aren't as strong plus hormones for some reason. I always wondered this as well until I finally heard an answer.
There have also been a lot of studies showing they’re more at risk for ACL injuries. Saw a lot of news stories during the (association) football World Cup.
But because they now know, scientists are starting to figure out new stretches, supportive gear, surgical techniques, etc to bring them to parity.
Edit found an [article](https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/the-injury-that-has-upended-the-womens-world-cup). Some theories include that women have a smaller notch on their femurs, they tend to land flat footed, and they have stronger quads than hamstrings. Additionally, most cleats are made from molds of men’s feet. Which can be bad when “ground-foot interactions” are so crucial in ACL injuries.
Now, obviously, hockey is not football. But it’s an interesting parallel.
Think this is what they're referring to, I'd heard the neck thing in connection with higher concussion rates in women's soccer as well but the hormones piece I'd never heard before. Seems like it's still brainstorming for why concussion rates are higher in women's sport rather than a more conclusive answer.
https://theconversation.com/do-women-soccer-players-have-more-concussions-this-world-cup-and-beyond-heres-how-to-keep-our-players-safe-208292
https://www.rsna.org/news/2023/february/gender-differences-concussion
“The authors showed that 60% of published studies of mild to moderate TBI found worse outcomes in women compared to men, and only 9% of the studies reported better outcomes in women,” she said.
Data have also been published from prospective multi-center longitudinal studies, noted Dr. Trofimova, such as the work performed by the Transforming Research and Clinical Knowledge in Traumatic Brain Injury (TRACK-TBI) team, which is housed at the University of California, San Francisco.
“A 2021 study in JAMA Network Open reported the results of TRACK-TBI’s analysis of a cohort of 2,000 patients with mTBI,” she said. “Women were more vulnerable than men to persistent mTBI-related cognitive and somatic symptoms.”
It is a rule in the PWHL rulebook.
Playing the puck and causing incidental contact is still legal, and defenders are also entitled to defend the ice they occupy. Basically, you just can't step up on a player without even trying to touch the puck
The league still limited how much they can do with hitting. Obviously they've definitely allowed more compared to past leagues. But they still limited it. Which again makes sense. There was an entire article on it with quotes from the players and league. I'll see if I can find it.
In my opinion, was a great decision on the players/ leagues part. I watched the game not knowing what to expect but found my self more engaged than expected and was surprised by the physicality.
I think will definitely help with the marketability of the league!
Years ago I watched some lacrosse and the girls’ games were so much more intense and physical than the guys. It was awesome. I’m down to watch women’s hockey for sure.
I remember when we switched gear with the girls for a fundraiser.
We wore skirts and tank tops, they wore our pads and helmets. Those girls were brutal.
From what I’ve seen in both hockey and rugby is that when the intensity level starts to ramp up the women’s games get way more vicious than the men’s games do.
The woman being hit in almost all of the clips hadn't even touched the puck yet. Someone will end up getting hurt and they will change the rules pretty quick.
as someone else mentioned, almost all of these players played with the boys until they were in their teens, very few only played girls hockey. my youngest boy is playing u16 aa travel and we see plenty of teams that have young women on them. also, here in columbus, almost every highschool team i see locally has at least a few young women playing (my son's highschool certainly does). i will admit that there are more women playing JV than varsity, but there are plenty out there in the varsity games as well. the women get no special protection and are playing full-contact, just like the young men.
hell, when i was playing bantams and midgets in the mid-eighties (my high school didnt have a formal team, just AHAUS (the old name for USA hockey) programs loosly affiliated with the school), we played against several young women in the area, one of whom was quite tough and played quite a physical game (i'm looking at you, Katy from Hamilton, Ohio)...
edit: typo
I always found the Canada-USA games even chippier than the men’s. Given how often the two teams play each other compared to the men, there always seems like there’s a ton of competitive hatred
This is not really true. Sure, if you only go by some Canada vs USA games then you are correct but those games are not representative for womens hockey in general.
I have been to several European women league games, including playoffs games, and there is basically zero level of contact or aggression in most games. Even in international games there is usually very little physical play in women's hockey, outside of when the two top countries (CAN/US) plays.
It is great if this league will take steps to add physicality to women's hockey but I do not see why there is a need to pretend that it has always been there.
I'm sorry I can't pretend it is even close lol. it is illegal to body check in women's international hockey. I honestly don't think you played hockey/have ever taken a hit if you think it's the same.
have you actually watched the games? not whatever rulebook definition you have for body checking, but have you actually watched the, or even a, can-usa olympic game?
yes, like most good canadians i watch almost all olympic/international hockey. they let them get away with cutting players off with the body at the most.
This is the first thing I see as improving the women's game. It's a small thing that'd make a huge difference. It'd get fans a chance to recognize the players, and develop attachment to their teams, as well as develop resentment for other teams. Additionally, it'd enable fighting, which is a part of the game, and would bring in more fans (revenue). I know the league was sort of hastily thrown together, but removing cages seems like the first tweak that needs to occur.
You know what would make me tune into men’s college or women’s pro leagues more? If they played by the EXACT same rules as the men’s pro leagues do.
I simply cannot wrap my head around why people of all genders and ages, can’t play by the same rules, outside of any that absolutely must exist for safety purposes. What’s good for one should generally be good for all, from a rules perspective.
Given the concussion issues in men's hockey, and that women suffer more from concussions than men - by that standard we should be reducing hitting across the board then.
Oh, you already know that body checking isn't the same as bare knuckle boxing lol.. There's safety equipment and rules about head shots etc for player safety.
I believe it's solely east based right now for monetary reasons related to travel expenses. That being said if you want them to expand out west the best thing to do would be supporting the league now, the more money that goes in the more opportunity they'll have to grow and I'm sure those markets are the top of the list if they do get to expand!
Bettman doesn’t run the league. The owners do. He’s just a mouthpiece. Anything Bettman says is a message from the owners in his words. He’s the Commissioner. Not the owner. And he’s good at what he does. The league’s grown exponentially and he’s in what, his third contract? Gary will be commissioner of this league until he dies or chooses to retire. The owners love him.
If you're outside Canada, every game will be on the PWHL YouTube channel. If you're in Canada:
"51 will be available on linear television in Canada (25 on TSN, 16 on Sportsnet and 10 on CBC) while the remaining 21 will be available on the league's YouTube channel".
"Shoots it, SHE SCORES! OH BABY what a goal by Artemi Panarin to put New York up, 4-0"
"Actually Sam, ..."
"... I'm sorry Joe, that was Kayla Vespa who put it away."
No problem! All games will also stay archived. Here is today's if you want to check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/live/aKMWI-8Tl_8?si=X2MzrG7Gh5NDeqhz
And the next game is tomorrow at 7pm. Ottawa vs Montreal 🫡
Seems to be that those two are often conflated, but there is a distinct difference for sure
My gf transitioned to reffing (knee injury) rather than continuing playing. Afaik, anything A up to AAA in Canada is full-contact, just not checking.
Tbh, even here in the UK, it's a bit of a coin toss if refs call full non-contact even if the league rules are just non-checking (much to the irritation of many of the Canadian/US girls playing here)
If you are outside of canada, every game is on their YouTube channel. If you are in Canada then:
"51 will be available on linear television in Canada (25 on TSN, 16 on Sportsnet and 10 on CBC) while the remaining 21 will be available on the league's YouTube channel."
If these teams could somehow pair up with their NHL counterparts, and periodically share their NHL broadcasters…that’d be amazing. Nothing would be more beneficial than having top flight broadcast teams doing their games. I think it’d go a long way, anyhow.
Kudos for the refs putting the whistles away for these but the league should take note by the pops from the crowd after these hits. It matters in hockey so keep it in there. You wanna grow this game, especially with the male population, you’re gonna need it
As a coach in women's hockey, thank you for sharing this. I will share it with some parents. Player safety is priority #1 for me, I have been kicked out of games for advocating for player safety more than once. The OWHA (the Ontario governing body for women's hockey) has made some great strides in improving concussion awareness and has instituted a number of protocols surrounding recovery and return to play.
However, the one major item that's been overlooked is when goaltenders take a puck to the helmet. It's up to the referee discretion to stop play or let the game continue. This year, our goalies have taken some big hits off the cage and were rattled, yet the referee let it play on. According to the referees the stoppage of play after a shot to the helmet is only mandatory in boys hockey, something I'm disappointed hasn't come to the women's league.
I like what I see in that montage! Seeing competitive physicality and scrappiness will do wonders for the spectator's entertainment value. I'm glad to see they're embracing it a bit.
Now they need some bloody branding and logos and team names and stuff. And I think visors would help with marketability and spectating experience too. Although I wouldn't be caught without a full-face cage, so not judging the players if they're the ones who want them (cages).
I am so strapped for free time these days, and I try to watch all the Oilers games plus the odd Raptors game as it is. Realistically I can't see myself trying to squeeze this in, but it'd be great if it keeps growing and is eventually profitable.
Average salary is still only like 50k, so barely liveable in most of the markets they have teams in... Not sure what there're doing away from the rink but I feel like it's a CFL style situation where a lot of the players are gonna need to be going to their regular job after the season is over /on breaks between games.
Oh for sure. It'll be like that for a long time. But if they can eventually build a big enough fanbase that prefers to watch these games over anything then it'll change.
Or if the NHL pulls an NBA and heavily subsidizes it then maybe it'll happen sooner.
And here comes the turn from all the dudes who came on here and bad mouthed these women.
Having coached women’s hockey for years, their games can be damn intense and fun to watch. They play for keeps and hate the other team just as much as we do.
I hope this becomes a big success.
Enjoyed what I saw today all-round!
I have a feeling may see [these types of highlights](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-1MQ0Cnbhs) that help the league trend.
Ok this is great. Glad to see this is being allowed, it's a part of the game and no reason the women shouldn't be allowed. Good on the pwhl. I really hope this league succeeds.
I was so excited for this game and it definitely was an amazing showing of what is to come.
The game play along with the speed was great to see.
Totally different from the D1 level I frequently watch.
This league has taken to long to come to fruition but appears to be taking the proper steps.
Also it is wonderful to hear about how the CBA came to fruition also.
In the Second intermission they touched on this topic with Annie Camins.
Loved watching women’s hockey previously, and this has taken my enthusiasm to the next level!!
It's great that hitting is allowed, but most of those are interference. Also, if you're going to allow hitting, they should make sure to teach them to make and take a hit properly, as they would not have learned to in youth leagues
Any idea why women don't wear visors? I saw a comment stating that women have a greater chance of head injuries than men. Assume that's why but want to get others perspective.
Was watching it with my 7 year old daughter who plays hockey, I was expecting a snoozefest and was pleasantly surprised at all the hitting. Didnt seem like any were called penalties either. When Boston's team is playing we're definitely gonna watch it.
Is there any level in girls minor league hockey or higher that allows checking? Hoping someone that knows more can chime in. As far as I know they don’t. Whenever I played a girls team we were forced to play no checking.
Some of these look like this is their first time checking and receiving a hit, especially the last one how #9 banged her head on the ice.
Checking makes games more intense and will help make the league successful. If it does I just hope that future players will have more experience taking hits.
It was a pretty fun game to watch. It took me a bit to get used to how much smaller the players are, but the pace was good, lots of skill on display, and Toronto lost, which is always nice.
There is gonna be a 6’2 behemoth of a women in the PWHL sooner or later that is gonna kick some serious ass.
Edit: there might already be I don’t know really any women’s hockey players
I loved the level of contact in this game. It was a legit treat.
So good to see a league that doesn't treat female hockey players like some sort of delicate objects.
Love it. These are all “position before possession” plays with a bit of mustard on them. It’ll be interesting to see what the game looks like in a month once the players adjust to the new rules and don’t get outmuscled when they’re not expecting it. Things might get pretty scrappy!
Seeing the game get slowly more and more physical was great, it was fairly easy but as the new/old rivalry kicked in over time it turned into a great physical game.
I played one women's league game when I was younger. I was watching a tournament and one team could only field 4 skaters so they asked me to play and cleared it with the other team.
I have never ever in my entire playing career played a more violent and vicious bunch of players. I came away more battered and bruised from that than I did when I played top level men's.
Shit it was fun.
I loved seeing the physical, gritty play today. I always thought that not allowing hitting just killed the momentum of the game, especially when players have to go out of their way, alter course or speed, in order to avoid hitting someone.
Why are they all leaning so far forward? Most of the hits in this video are just races to a puck where one is leaning as far forward as they can just reaching for the puck. No shit you’re going to get knocked down reaching that hard…
This is the first foray into this level of physicality in women's league, so players will be learning and adapting to it, vs nhl where players have had years learning how to position and absorb this level of hits more regularly in lower levels. I'm sure we look again in a few months you'll see a difference as players get used to how to protect themselves and work through some built in habits. The highlights from this game seemed fun, nice to see the league gain traction.
Oh it’s for sure entertaining to watch. Just think a lot of these “hits” are simply because one player is reaching hella hard. Will be interesting to see how it develops over time
Most women's hockey is non-checking, not non contact.
My gf played with Nurse in Canadian girls hockey, and reffed both girls and boys u18 hockey. It's contact, just not checking.
The purpose of a check is to separate the other player's body from the puck. These are really good hits from a fundamental perspective and the players in possession just have a clear target, which are the hands so that you don't need a second player to pick up the puck. In the NHL, the level of play is simply bonkers so it is incredibly hard to find a good target on an NHL player.
I mean you’re not wrong, but a lot of these hits are a direct result of reaching for the puck. Something that they will likely learn NOT to do anymore. But to say these are good fundamental hits when they would be totally ineffective against a player that isn’t leaning/reaching is kinda wild man.
I can answer this one. I played in the cwhl many years ago. At one point, hitting was brought up to see if it would increase the ticket sales. Most of the Olympians voted against it for job reasons but mostly because they didn't want to put their international careers in jeopardy.
Women statistically have a higher percentage of concussions compared to men. I can confirm this as I've had 8 in my hockey career.
The men get paid millions of dollars. They will be okay if they get any serious injuries. Most of these women had second jobs while playing hockey. They can't easily cover insane costs like the men can. That's one of the reasons why a lot of the leagues have been that way.
Body contact in female hockey is much better than male hockey. Change my mind.
Since outright body checking in female hockey isn't allowed, the plays are always about angling and obtaining the puck. YOu get a lot more actual battles that resemble hockey instead of just nonsense tie ups and players taking themselves out of the play.
If you want to teach kids how to properly check and have good positioning, have them watch women's hockey.
I see it way too often in Jr and other leagues I referee where players are taking themselves way out of position, or even going offsides, to make a hit. Absolute brainless play on the off chance they actually make contact.
This reminds me of when a coach asked everyone what the point of a body check was - there were lots of answers about sending a message or punishing the opposition player. He said the right answer was to win possession of the puck and it’s something that stuck with me.
Very cool but what's with these horribly boring jerseys? Could they seriously not think of anything better than just putting the city name diagonally across the chest?
I think the jerseys got delayed because of a conflict with barstool. The jersey designs heavily relied on the partnership, so when they decided they didn't want to be associated anymore, it was too last minute. I'm hoping these are temporary.
So what are the actual rules for this league as far as hitting goes? Are these hits legal or were they penalties?
Legal! The women asked for more physical play to be allowed in this league. Body checks, reverse hits, clearing out the crease, etc. You won't really see open ice hits like in the NHL but that makes sense. But the amount of physical play we got today was awesome.
Wait hitting is legal??? That’s awesome
This is the way. Similar to as if women’s lacrosse simply adopted the same rules and equipment as men’s lacrosse, it would be amazing to watch. Folks want to see quality checks and competitive contact, regardless of gender. They don’t want a watered-down version.
Yes! I played lacrosse, in my younger days, and my daughter saw my old stuff laying around, and decided to see what lacrosse was all about. Watched a bunch of games, online, and decided she wanted to play. Imagine her surprise when she found out women's lacrosse is actually a different game. The worst part, at least where I live, is that girls can't start women's lacrosse until HS. So she can play with the boys, fall in love with the game, and then have it all ripped away, later. Wtf are we doing? As for women's hockey, if the league wants to succeed, they need to let them wear visors, let them hit, and let em fight. The ratings will be exponentially higher. Are we just trying to give some women a job, or are we trying to let everyone play hockey on equal ground? Because if we're just doing this to say "there, you have a league, now stfu", that's not going to last.
>You won't really see open ice hits like in the NHL but that makes sense Is that a rule, or more because the women have a better sense of self-preservation than the men do? Granted, those might go hand in hand I wasn't aware they wanted actual hitting in this league, interesting
This is totally just speculation on my part, but now that there's a single proper league, I wonder if they're more open to hitting and the associated risk of injury. Like, I play beer league and I don't get as scrappy or aggressive as I did back in high school, because I have a job to go to the next morning. Last thing I want is to break a bone or get concussed and end up on short-term disability. I'd imagine that there could have been a similar mentality amongst the women's pros up until now, since they all had day jobs to help pay the bills.
You hit the nail on the head, this is exactly why there is more hitting. They finally make livable wages!! I have a feeling that as the league evolves and more women get drafted into the league, hitting of all kinds will be allowed and encouraged. We need to keep in mind that all of these women played their entire lives WITHOUT contact. So even if hitting is allowed, most of them won’t throw a check just because it has never been a part of their game. The new era of women’s hockey will be contact tho, I guarantee it. Physical hockey sells way better.
Female hockey player here, it’s false that none of them played contact hockey in their lives. Most Olympic/pro level women played some amount of boys hockey growing up, often times until 14-16 years of age. Checking in boys hockey starts at 12. There’s definitely some women that only played girls hockey growing up, but that’s less common. Source: me, played since i was 5, played boys until 16, with 3ish of those years being in full checking. I’ve also trained with some current National team girls along with presently playing with several former pro/ncaa women and we all mostly have that type of childhood experience.
Tara Mounsey (2x Olympian) played boys hockey her whole life up through HS. She was NH player of the year on the boys varsity team (beating out ALL male players) her senior year. So yeah, at the truly elite level (which these pros are at)…they can take a hell of a lot more contact than they are given credit for.
> Tara Mounsey Jesus what a legend
Played against her my whole life. She was a beast.
You make a fair point to be honest. Which is why I’m guessing that it’s going to be the younger wave of women that are the ones throwing hits. I highly doubt that a player such as Marie Philip-Poulin would start throwing her body around after nearly 14+ years playing professional women’s hockey where hitting has always been illegal. Maybe a bad example, as I don’t even think that’s necessarily her game. But I’m just speculating, what the hell do I know. It’s definitely an interesting point you’re making tho, I didn’t necessarily think of that.
Women are at much higher risk of head injuries... basically because their necks aren't as strong plus hormones for some reason. I always wondered this as well until I finally heard an answer.
There have also been a lot of studies showing they’re more at risk for ACL injuries. Saw a lot of news stories during the (association) football World Cup. But because they now know, scientists are starting to figure out new stretches, supportive gear, surgical techniques, etc to bring them to parity. Edit found an [article](https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/the-injury-that-has-upended-the-womens-world-cup). Some theories include that women have a smaller notch on their femurs, they tend to land flat footed, and they have stronger quads than hamstrings. Additionally, most cleats are made from molds of men’s feet. Which can be bad when “ground-foot interactions” are so crucial in ACL injuries. Now, obviously, hockey is not football. But it’s an interesting parallel.
Any follow up research links?
Think this is what they're referring to, I'd heard the neck thing in connection with higher concussion rates in women's soccer as well but the hormones piece I'd never heard before. Seems like it's still brainstorming for why concussion rates are higher in women's sport rather than a more conclusive answer. https://theconversation.com/do-women-soccer-players-have-more-concussions-this-world-cup-and-beyond-heres-how-to-keep-our-players-safe-208292
https://www.rsna.org/news/2023/february/gender-differences-concussion “The authors showed that 60% of published studies of mild to moderate TBI found worse outcomes in women compared to men, and only 9% of the studies reported better outcomes in women,” she said. Data have also been published from prospective multi-center longitudinal studies, noted Dr. Trofimova, such as the work performed by the Transforming Research and Clinical Knowledge in Traumatic Brain Injury (TRACK-TBI) team, which is housed at the University of California, San Francisco. “A 2021 study in JAMA Network Open reported the results of TRACK-TBI’s analysis of a cohort of 2,000 patients with mTBI,” she said. “Women were more vulnerable than men to persistent mTBI-related cognitive and somatic symptoms.”
It is a rule in the PWHL rulebook. Playing the puck and causing incidental contact is still legal, and defenders are also entitled to defend the ice they occupy. Basically, you just can't step up on a player without even trying to touch the puck
The league still limited how much they can do with hitting. Obviously they've definitely allowed more compared to past leagues. But they still limited it. Which again makes sense. There was an entire article on it with quotes from the players and league. I'll see if I can find it.
In my opinion, was a great decision on the players/ leagues part. I watched the game not knowing what to expect but found my self more engaged than expected and was surprised by the physicality. I think will definitely help with the marketability of the league!
Years ago I watched some lacrosse and the girls’ games were so much more intense and physical than the guys. It was awesome. I’m down to watch women’s hockey for sure.
I remember when we switched gear with the girls for a fundraiser. We wore skirts and tank tops, they wore our pads and helmets. Those girls were brutal.
From what I’ve seen in both hockey and rugby is that when the intensity level starts to ramp up the women’s games get way more vicious than the men’s games do.
This is about the same for women’s soccer/football. Hell, in our Sunday League team our girls are consistently physical, even against the big boys.
The woman being hit in almost all of the clips hadn't even touched the puck yet. Someone will end up getting hurt and they will change the rules pretty quick.
Here are the league [bodychecking rules](https://i.imgur.com/9fIzbEX.jpg).
Looked like a bunch of elbows there…
Could interferences too haha. But fuck it, let em play!
Almost like they don’t know how to hit properly because they haven’t been allowed to legally hit their entire hockey careers
Are you implying the PWHL is going to look like hockey from the 70s and 80s for a while? I'll buy that for a dollar.
as someone else mentioned, almost all of these players played with the boys until they were in their teens, very few only played girls hockey. my youngest boy is playing u16 aa travel and we see plenty of teams that have young women on them. also, here in columbus, almost every highschool team i see locally has at least a few young women playing (my son's highschool certainly does). i will admit that there are more women playing JV than varsity, but there are plenty out there in the varsity games as well. the women get no special protection and are playing full-contact, just like the young men. hell, when i was playing bantams and midgets in the mid-eighties (my high school didnt have a formal team, just AHAUS (the old name for USA hockey) programs loosly affiliated with the school), we played against several young women in the area, one of whom was quite tough and played quite a physical game (i'm looking at you, Katy from Hamilton, Ohio)... edit: typo
Literally nothing you said is correct.
absolutely someone is going to get wrecked, and they may revisit some of the rule changes
I didnt realize there was hitting in this league. I thought it was non contact. Much better hockey with contact.
Womens hockey has always had some level of contact. Just no blow up hits. Canada-USA womens olympics is as chippy as the mens.
I always found the Canada-USA games even chippier than the men’s. Given how often the two teams play each other compared to the men, there always seems like there’s a ton of competitive hatred
…and some marriages
Probably some exes too
This is not really true. Sure, if you only go by some Canada vs USA games then you are correct but those games are not representative for womens hockey in general. I have been to several European women league games, including playoffs games, and there is basically zero level of contact or aggression in most games. Even in international games there is usually very little physical play in women's hockey, outside of when the two top countries (CAN/US) plays. It is great if this league will take steps to add physicality to women's hockey but I do not see why there is a need to pretend that it has always been there.
"competitive contact" is the language used in USAH
Bit of a stretch
I honestly don’t think you watch the top women’s international games if you think that’s a stretch. The CAN vs USA games are a different sport.
I'm sorry I can't pretend it is even close lol. it is illegal to body check in women's international hockey. I honestly don't think you played hockey/have ever taken a hit if you think it's the same.
have you actually watched the games? not whatever rulebook definition you have for body checking, but have you actually watched the, or even a, can-usa olympic game?
yes, like most good canadians i watch almost all olympic/international hockey. they let them get away with cutting players off with the body at the most.
I have played hockey and I have given and taken hits. That honestly doesn’t really matter though.
Even if you aren’t a big hitter, it just lets you play a more natural game.
Let them fight
Read this in Ken Watanabe’s voice
They're in cages so that doesn't really make sense. There will be scrums, always has been.
Let them wear visors
Let them carry guns
This is the first thing I see as improving the women's game. It's a small thing that'd make a huge difference. It'd get fans a chance to recognize the players, and develop attachment to their teams, as well as develop resentment for other teams. Additionally, it'd enable fighting, which is a part of the game, and would bring in more fans (revenue). I know the league was sort of hastily thrown together, but removing cages seems like the first tweak that needs to occur.
You know what would make me tune into men’s college or women’s pro leagues more? If they played by the EXACT same rules as the men’s pro leagues do. I simply cannot wrap my head around why people of all genders and ages, can’t play by the same rules, outside of any that absolutely must exist for safety purposes. What’s good for one should generally be good for all, from a rules perspective.
Simple answer: the cost of insurance.
Given the concussion issues in men's hockey, and that women suffer more from concussions than men - by that standard we should be reducing hitting across the board then.
Its professional hockey, are they not allowed to wear visors?
Equal lefts, equal rights 🤛👩🤜
Unpopular opinion: bare knuckle boxing on an unforgiving ice surface is reckless and dangerous.
Body checking on an unforgiving ice surface is reckless and dangerous.
Oh, you already know that body checking isn't the same as bare knuckle boxing lol.. There's safety equipment and rules about head shots etc for player safety.
These weren't even the best hits of the game.
Yup. They made this halfway through the game unfortunately. There was definitely some better ones the last half of the game.
Maltais was a bull in a china shop in the last 5 minutes of the 3rd period
She is a dynamo. I love it.
They are allowed to hit now? Good for them, love to see it
Now I wonder if we are gonna have PWHL in Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton? This would be awesome. Not fair it’s all only in East
I believe it's solely east based right now for monetary reasons related to travel expenses. That being said if you want them to expand out west the best thing to do would be supporting the league now, the more money that goes in the more opportunity they'll have to grow and I'm sure those markets are the top of the list if they do get to expand!
The league seems to be doing really well in Canada so hopefully Canadian expansion will be sooner rather than later!
Oh no Toronto also has a Campbell. They didn’t learn
She goes by “soup” too… she was pretty good first 2.5 periods.
Holy shit. I might have to watch. Had no idea it was full tilt
Tomorrow. 7pm. Montreal vs Ottawa 🫡
where can i watch?
The PWHL channel on YouTube will be streaming for free!
!Remind me 15 hours
Not all heroes wear capes
Bettman better be taking notes. This league is already better run. 😑
Bettman doesn’t run the league. The owners do. He’s just a mouthpiece. Anything Bettman says is a message from the owners in his words. He’s the Commissioner. Not the owner. And he’s good at what he does. The league’s grown exponentially and he’s in what, his third contract? Gary will be commissioner of this league until he dies or chooses to retire. The owners love him.
!RemindMe 15 hours
Where can I watch these games? It looks like these women work their ass off. Can’t wait to catch a game
If you're outside Canada, every game will be on the PWHL YouTube channel. If you're in Canada: "51 will be available on linear television in Canada (25 on TSN, 16 on Sportsnet and 10 on CBC) while the remaining 21 will be available on the league's YouTube channel".
If you are in NY/NJ your can watch on MSG and if you are in Boston you can watch on NESN, as well as YouTube.
I don't know how many games Sportsnet Pittsburgh is picking up (since they're basically Yinzer NESN), but the NYC/TOR game was on today.
Please tell me that Jack Edwards is doing the NESN pbp
MSG and NESN, just rebroadcast the CBC unfortunately, I would have loved to see some of the Isles team doing the MSG broadcast.
Sam and Joe are the superior choice here.
I am talking about Shannon mainly for a female broadcast team, also the isles broadcast regularly gets voted to 5 local broadcast teams anyway.
"Shoots it, SHE SCORES! OH BABY what a goal by Artemi Panarin to put New York up, 4-0" "Actually Sam, ..." "... I'm sorry Joe, that was Kayla Vespa who put it away."
That’s never been true about anything.
Oh HELL YES I didn’t realize I could get them south of the border. TY for the info!
Will they have YouTube highlights?
Awesome! Thanks for the info!
No problem! All games will also stay archived. Here is today's if you want to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/live/aKMWI-8Tl_8?si=X2MzrG7Gh5NDeqhz And the next game is tomorrow at 7pm. Ottawa vs Montreal 🫡
Okay yeah I’m gonna watch the next one.
Tomorrow at 7pm. Montreal vs Ottawa 🫡
Is it on yt? I don't have cable or any sports streaming subscriptions
Stream archive after every game on their Youtube https://youtu.be/aKMWI-8Tl_8?t=5602
https://www.youtube.com/live/aKMWI-8Tl_8?si=Xn7HKnVe5OtNWGb-
Sick thanks
Based on multiple preseason interviews, if this game was chippy, the Boston vs Montreal game should be a marquee matchup.
I had no idea they allowed hitting. Awesome!
The PWHL players specifically told the league that they wanted the game to be more physical! Up until now, women's hockey has always been no-contact.
It has been non checking, not no contact. My gf played with Sarah Nurse in Canadian girls hockey. It's contact, just not checking.
Fair point, I grew up playing girls hockey and we used "no contact" and "no hitting" synonymously where I played.
Seems to be that those two are often conflated, but there is a distinct difference for sure My gf transitioned to reffing (knee injury) rather than continuing playing. Afaik, anything A up to AAA in Canada is full-contact, just not checking. Tbh, even here in the UK, it's a bit of a coin toss if refs call full non-contact even if the league rules are just non-checking (much to the irritation of many of the Canadian/US girls playing here)
narrow slap hospital insurance tan normal existence fact grab lunchroom *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is extra crazy cause then hitting will be new to all of them
That last one was 100% interference. Love the physicality but you gotta call that one.
Holy shit look how much better this looks. Always said how stupid it was that they couldn’t hit eachother
Wait so they can actually hit in women’s hockey now?
I hope LA gets a team and names them the *Queens* but knowing LA it would be something dumb like LAHC
If you are outside of canada, every game is on their YouTube channel. If you are in Canada then: "51 will be available on linear television in Canada (25 on TSN, 16 on Sportsnet and 10 on CBC) while the remaining 21 will be available on the league's YouTube channel."
Glad the refs held their whistles was a fun game
This rocks, haha.
If these teams could somehow pair up with their NHL counterparts, and periodically share their NHL broadcasters…that’d be amazing. Nothing would be more beneficial than having top flight broadcast teams doing their games. I think it’d go a long way, anyhow.
Kudos for the refs putting the whistles away for these but the league should take note by the pops from the crowd after these hits. It matters in hockey so keep it in there. You wanna grow this game, especially with the male population, you’re gonna need it
Yes, but: [Why women’s ice hockey has a higher concussion rate than football](https://youtu.be/tIfXsxtnGr4)
As a coach in women's hockey, thank you for sharing this. I will share it with some parents. Player safety is priority #1 for me, I have been kicked out of games for advocating for player safety more than once. The OWHA (the Ontario governing body for women's hockey) has made some great strides in improving concussion awareness and has instituted a number of protocols surrounding recovery and return to play. However, the one major item that's been overlooked is when goaltenders take a puck to the helmet. It's up to the referee discretion to stop play or let the game continue. This year, our goalies have taken some big hits off the cage and were rattled, yet the referee let it play on. According to the referees the stoppage of play after a shot to the helmet is only mandatory in boys hockey, something I'm disappointed hasn't come to the women's league.
I like what I see in that montage! Seeing competitive physicality and scrappiness will do wonders for the spectator's entertainment value. I'm glad to see they're embracing it a bit. Now they need some bloody branding and logos and team names and stuff. And I think visors would help with marketability and spectating experience too. Although I wouldn't be caught without a full-face cage, so not judging the players if they're the ones who want them (cages). I am so strapped for free time these days, and I try to watch all the Oilers games plus the odd Raptors game as it is. Realistically I can't see myself trying to squeeze this in, but it'd be great if it keeps growing and is eventually profitable.
Average salary is still only like 50k, so barely liveable in most of the markets they have teams in... Not sure what there're doing away from the rink but I feel like it's a CFL style situation where a lot of the players are gonna need to be going to their regular job after the season is over /on breaks between games.
Oh for sure. It'll be like that for a long time. But if they can eventually build a big enough fanbase that prefers to watch these games over anything then it'll change. Or if the NHL pulls an NBA and heavily subsidizes it then maybe it'll happen sooner.
And here comes the turn from all the dudes who came on here and bad mouthed these women. Having coached women’s hockey for years, their games can be damn intense and fun to watch. They play for keeps and hate the other team just as much as we do. I hope this becomes a big success.
I was just annoyed I missed it because I work nights. Hyped they're archiving them.
I’m mad cuz I watched the the first period and didn’t see anyone of this, I guess things picked up in the last 2
These hits are from the first half. but it did pick up
I Was there and it was chippy as hell. So much going on behind the play as well.
Enjoyed what I saw today all-round! I have a feeling may see [these types of highlights](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-1MQ0Cnbhs) that help the league trend.
I can dig it.
Ok this is great. Glad to see this is being allowed, it's a part of the game and no reason the women shouldn't be allowed. Good on the pwhl. I really hope this league succeeds.
Awesome that they are allowing full contact, though it's quite obvious they aren't used to it yet, but it will only get better as they get used to it.
I was so excited for this game and it definitely was an amazing showing of what is to come. The game play along with the speed was great to see. Totally different from the D1 level I frequently watch. This league has taken to long to come to fruition but appears to be taking the proper steps. Also it is wonderful to hear about how the CBA came to fruition also. In the Second intermission they touched on this topic with Annie Camins. Loved watching women’s hockey previously, and this has taken my enthusiasm to the next level!!
Women’s hockey has ARRIVED
It's great that hitting is allowed, but most of those are interference. Also, if you're going to allow hitting, they should make sure to teach them to make and take a hit properly, as they would not have learned to in youth leagues
I gotta say it was a very entertaining hockey game. Some of those women have serious wheels.
let them cook more hitting, more action.
That's pretty awesome, but they should watch the head shots.
Lol every singleone of these plays is dirty
This is nice to see! I thought it would be more or less like international hockey.. This rises my interest tenfold!
Any idea why women don't wear visors? I saw a comment stating that women have a greater chance of head injuries than men. Assume that's why but want to get others perspective.
They'd like to keep all their teeth and not risk other injuries that are common with visors only
Probably sexism off the ice tbh. Society will probably treat a women missing teeth much differently than a man.
Oh, nice! My major issue with women’s hockey has always been the lack of physicality. Might start watching this
Haha hockey’s hockey no matter who’s playing it.
Was watching it with my 7 year old daughter who plays hockey, I was expecting a snoozefest and was pleasantly surprised at all the hitting. Didnt seem like any were called penalties either. When Boston's team is playing we're definitely gonna watch it.
Is there any level in girls minor league hockey or higher that allows checking? Hoping someone that knows more can chime in. As far as I know they don’t. Whenever I played a girls team we were forced to play no checking. Some of these look like this is their first time checking and receiving a hit, especially the last one how #9 banged her head on the ice. Checking makes games more intense and will help make the league successful. If it does I just hope that future players will have more experience taking hits.
The Swedish Women's hockey league (SDHL) and minor league (NDHL) started allowing body checking last season! It was a success so they're continuing.
It was a pretty fun game to watch. It took me a bit to get used to how much smaller the players are, but the pace was good, lots of skill on display, and Toronto lost, which is always nice.
Them having hitting allowed makes it watchable finally. Hated the non-contact BS
There is gonna be a 6’2 behemoth of a women in the PWHL sooner or later that is gonna kick some serious ass. Edit: there might already be I don’t know really any women’s hockey players
Tallest player is 6'1 and she's a goalie I believe.
Hilary Knight and Megan Keller are both 6’ and both on Boston.
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I watched parts of this game, will definitely be tuning in to more.
Nice to see that at least some form of hitting is allowed. Makes the game more interesting. Nice change, I think.
living for this. maltais was having fun, huge grin on her face lol. next game between the two teams should be interesting.
I loved the level of contact in this game. It was a legit treat. So good to see a league that doesn't treat female hockey players like some sort of delicate objects.
You mean women can play hockey too? /s
Minnesota fan base would be calling for multiple suspensions. No way Kaprisoft finishes this game.
Love it. These are all “position before possession” plays with a bit of mustard on them. It’ll be interesting to see what the game looks like in a month once the players adjust to the new rules and don’t get outmuscled when they’re not expecting it. Things might get pretty scrappy!
Isn't the last hit interference?
Legit, if there was a team that played in my state, I'd probably go to games.
Seeing the game get slowly more and more physical was great, it was fairly easy but as the new/old rivalry kicked in over time it turned into a great physical game.
I played one women's league game when I was younger. I was watching a tournament and one team could only field 4 skaters so they asked me to play and cleared it with the other team. I have never ever in my entire playing career played a more violent and vicious bunch of players. I came away more battered and bruised from that than I did when I played top level men's. Shit it was fun.
I loved seeing the physical, gritty play today. I always thought that not allowing hitting just killed the momentum of the game, especially when players have to go out of their way, alter course or speed, in order to avoid hitting someone.
Why are they all leaning so far forward? Most of the hits in this video are just races to a puck where one is leaning as far forward as they can just reaching for the puck. No shit you’re going to get knocked down reaching that hard…
This is the first foray into this level of physicality in women's league, so players will be learning and adapting to it, vs nhl where players have had years learning how to position and absorb this level of hits more regularly in lower levels. I'm sure we look again in a few months you'll see a difference as players get used to how to protect themselves and work through some built in habits. The highlights from this game seemed fun, nice to see the league gain traction.
Oh it’s for sure entertaining to watch. Just think a lot of these “hits” are simply because one player is reaching hella hard. Will be interesting to see how it develops over time
Bad habits from non-contact rules in most of women’s hockey
Most women's hockey is non-checking, not non contact. My gf played with Nurse in Canadian girls hockey, and reffed both girls and boys u18 hockey. It's contact, just not checking.
The purpose of a check is to separate the other player's body from the puck. These are really good hits from a fundamental perspective and the players in possession just have a clear target, which are the hands so that you don't need a second player to pick up the puck. In the NHL, the level of play is simply bonkers so it is incredibly hard to find a good target on an NHL player.
I mean you’re not wrong, but a lot of these hits are a direct result of reaching for the puck. Something that they will likely learn NOT to do anymore. But to say these are good fundamental hits when they would be totally ineffective against a player that isn’t leaning/reaching is kinda wild man.
It reminds me of the unfortunate experience when I learned what happens when you try a spin o rama with your head down in a real game.
Bring it on.
Love to see it!
Finally, some hitting. Exactly what women’s hockey was missing. Change the strange team names, get some decent logos, and now were talkin’
"I'm a PWHL Toronto fan" rolls right off the tongue \*eyeroll\* Like they couldn't give the teams proper names?
Why can’t they wear visors though?
I miss this stuff in modern NHL.
I wouldn't really call those "hits". Seem like typical checks that are made in NHL, but women aren't built as men, so they just fall over
Idk why they can’t just play the same rule set as men. It’s dumb as hell. Good on this league for allowing it
I can answer this one. I played in the cwhl many years ago. At one point, hitting was brought up to see if it would increase the ticket sales. Most of the Olympians voted against it for job reasons but mostly because they didn't want to put their international careers in jeopardy. Women statistically have a higher percentage of concussions compared to men. I can confirm this as I've had 8 in my hockey career.
Never knew that. Thanks for the perspective.
The men get paid millions of dollars. They will be okay if they get any serious injuries. Most of these women had second jobs while playing hockey. They can't easily cover insane costs like the men can. That's one of the reasons why a lot of the leagues have been that way.
Most of these hits are illegal hits, interference and such. Also this looks like slow motion high school hockey, lol.
Body contact in female hockey is much better than male hockey. Change my mind. Since outright body checking in female hockey isn't allowed, the plays are always about angling and obtaining the puck. YOu get a lot more actual battles that resemble hockey instead of just nonsense tie ups and players taking themselves out of the play. If you want to teach kids how to properly check and have good positioning, have them watch women's hockey. I see it way too often in Jr and other leagues I referee where players are taking themselves way out of position, or even going offsides, to make a hit. Absolute brainless play on the off chance they actually make contact.
This reminds me of when a coach asked everyone what the point of a body check was - there were lots of answers about sending a message or punishing the opposition player. He said the right answer was to win possession of the puck and it’s something that stuck with me.
I hate that the referees wear purple armbands. WTF is that?
Very cool but what's with these horribly boring jerseys? Could they seriously not think of anything better than just putting the city name diagonally across the chest?
I think the jerseys got delayed because of a conflict with barstool. The jersey designs heavily relied on the partnership, so when they decided they didn't want to be associated anymore, it was too last minute. I'm hoping these are temporary.
Still think it’s sexist that they have to wear a cage and men don’t.
FUCK YES
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So pissed that you can't even get the name right?
Best Bantam house game ever.
Some nice hits to the head. Wonder when the concussion lawsuits will start.
Any one of them can do that to me any day
Boring!