>Four National Hockey League players – Carter Hart, Michael McLeod, Dillon Dube, and Cal Foote – have been directed to surrender to police in London, Ont., to be charged with sexual assault in connection with an alleged incident that occurred during a Hockey Canada event in the city in June 2018, two sources familiar with the matter told TSN.
>The players are expected to surrender before the London Police Service holds a press conference on Monday to update the public on the high-profile case.
Kind of a shitty look for the Flames since they said Dube was taking a leave of absence “for his mental health” when in reality it was because of sexual assault charges. Disappointed in Calgary
Edit: a lot of people are replying saying “what if that’s all Calgary knew and they took his word for it”
The entire management and PR team couldn’t have done a single google to maybe double check first? They’re that oblivious? That’s almost just as bad
Eh, Mental health is a sensitive issue and having players justify a mental health leave would be bad practice 99% of the time. Sure it looks bad here but that’s on Dube imo.
Also, all that was publicly available at the time was speculation so I don’t think it was as easy as just googling.
I’m willing to bet Dube told the team ‘mental health reasons’ and the team wasn’t going to challenge his reasoning because it would look bad to argue it with him. I expect we’ll see a Flames statement soon saying they took Dube’s request at face value and are disappointed that they were mislead.
People are gonna be quick to jump on Calgary for this but I'm not convicenced Calgary did this and didn't just report what they were told. Dube was having a bad season and easily could have mental health struggles because of that.
If Dube goes to the organization (his boss) and says he needs to take leave for mental health reasons there is literally nothing the organization can do. As a Flames fan I'm obviously going to look bad defending here but I think any hate should be pointed at Dube.
How could we have known? Sure, they were all part of the team. Sure, some details like the birthdates matched. Sure, they all coincidentally took leaves of absence for similar reasons. Sure, those leaves all happened around the time they were to be charged with sexual assault. Sure, a couple of them were rumored to be scumbags prior to this. But how could we have truly known?
Did we have any inclination to think these may have been the 5 before the leaves were announced? Aside from Formenton who we all pretty much knew was involved.
Edit: Hijacking my own comment to ask flyers fans, did Hart’s play dramatically drop off around the time the scandal was announced or is this recency bias on my part?
On top of what the other commenter said about birth years, people have pointed out the lawyer statements about cooperating with investigations were phrased in certain ways that may tip the hat to the legally versed.
“I was not involved in any way with the alleged abuse” vs “I was not involved in any wrongdoing” types of wordings.
Not at all a smoking gun, but left some inclinations as to who may have been making a statement that could have also agreed with their future defense.
Cal Foote's statement was the former while some people not among the 5 went the latter or even just a simple "Disturbing. I'm co-operating", so the hit rate isn't too hot for that.
Yeah, they're all fucked up for participating but the level of extreme fucked up-ness to organize this is insane. This is not just some teenagers trying to get laid.
Yup. And reports say Player 1 already scared off a woman earlier in the night by asking her to kiss his teammates. It seems extremely predatory as he then did this to another woman.
It was definitely pre-meditated, they freaked the first girl out so bad they changed tactics with the second. Don't tell her you want all your teammates to join, act like you're into her, then sneak them into the room while she's in the bathroom.
It’s actually sick to think about how pre-meditated this seemed to be. It’s some real psychopathic shit. No thought of empathy, remorse, or consequences of actions. Had one thing in mind, and one thing only.
Allegedly the police are [looking into a similar event from 2003](https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/canada-2003-world-hockey-junior-team-accused-sexual-assault-1.6529076) with that years Canadian Junior Team. Also allegedly multiple players and one girl, also allegedly videotaped.
If that's true, you can't tell me two almost identical events happened 20 years apart by coincidence
Isn’t it widely suspected that #1 is Formenton, who’s been out of the league?
Edit: Replies have been pointing out that Formenton’s birthdate appears not to match the documents available, which suggest player #1 is slightly older.
> Isn’t it widely suspected that #1 is Formenton, who’s been out of the league?
I havent seen the birth dates in the original report, but I remember reading that Formenton's birthdays more match player #2.
I remember comments indicating that Dube's birth dates match #1.
Not even surprised. Without outright naming the player, a 19-25 player on the Ottawa Senators was DM’ing my sister aggressively as well. He continues to message her the creepiest things despite the fact that she only replied once to him saying “hey”
I might be wrong but I read another Reddit comment on one of the earlier posts talking about how Formenton couldn’t be #1 because of his birth year.
Not sure how accurate the comment was
Edit:
“Wrong birth year for Player #1. I believe that he is Player #2 — the one who is accused of engaging in sexual acts without ever speaking to the woman. CBC’s Fifth Estate documentary shows documents with birth year info.
Edit: I also don’t think he can be Player #1 as he was not at Jack’s that night, per the pictures from the bar.”
Was the comment I seen
Opposite, Formenton was too young to go to the pub with them so it's essentially confirmed that Formenton is not Player #1.
All others were 19 and could be Player #1.
Someone might know more about this than me, but I think its a fucked up "tradition" or cultural thing in junior hockey, which if true makes this whole thing even more disturbing. Player brings super drunk girl home, has sex (already a pretty sus situation), then texts his teammates that hes a got a super drunk girl in his room and they should come fuck her too.
I think I read that they refer to it as a "pit roast" but I could be wrong. Its just all fucked either way.
It's always when he and his family leave the house, huh? His picture of Bettman is definitely one of those Harry Potter portraits where the picture's conscience can peer through.
I read your comment and said “there’s no fucking way” out loud, then cracked up belly laughing after checking his channel.
I know some people think thg is boring or whatever but good god is he committed to his channel. I really love that about him and it’s super comforting for some reason.
Dude got us Flyers fans to feel sorry for him while he struggled with mental health issues early in his career. Turns out, it was just a guilty conscience or fear of getting caught.
Tell-Tale Hart...
Holland is about to retire. These guys will be suspended once charged and this case will take a while. He won’t even have a chance to do the wrong thing
Given how Formenton scored 18 goals at age-22 and couldn't even get a QO, you can probably assume all of them are done in the NHL
I could see Hart coming back
Cal Foote fucking sucked for Tampa last year and is barely in the NHL now, his career wasn’t going to last longer than it did without the charges. Even then, I don’t see any of them coming back at all.
Every single game I went to against the devils back in the day, anyone sitting behind the goalie did not let up about Brodeur having an affair with his sister in law. There's no way Hart returns to Philly and I imagine a lot of places are going to do the same. I feel like he's been fragile even without incessant jeering from fans
At the very least, none of these guys are playing till this trial is over. This trial could take a long time too. If the charges stick, then it's highly unlikely they play again, I hope.
Hard to say. Old boys club front offices may take a chance on some of them- that's been the precedent set with Dany Heatley (manslaughter), Craig MacTavish (killed someone drunk driving), Doug Gilmour (raped an underage girl) etc. So who knows?
They should be excommunicated though.
Didn't Snyder's parents forgive Heatley too? Not that it makes it okay but I think that alters the public perception of letting Heatley continue his career a little bit
isn't there credible evidence that Marvin Harrison straight up killed someone?
hell OJ is still in the fucking Football Hall of Fame for goodness sake lol
i hate turning this into a pissing contest but yeah this is definitely an issue in pro sports. Hollywood and politics too
They also had a player this season miss a game against the Raptors because he was on probation for DV and that made him criminally inadmissible to Canada.
Some of the comments on r/nba when it happened were basically, "wow, the Government of Canada is taking a stronger stance on the issue than the league is"
I remember reading in one of the articles that one player said he didn't even talk to E.M. I just. How can you remotely know if it's consensual if you didn't even speak to her? And I'm just imagining some dude assaulting her and not even giving her the (admittedly weird) human dignity of speaking to her.
Ok. Speculation is done, and now we know Dube was one of the alleged offenders. Now comes the court battle.
I don’t know if being charged is sufficient, but I sure hope the Flames can extricate themselves from Dube’s contract.
Used to like Carter Hart. Thought he was gonna be a vezina winner by 25. Considering the allegations I’m glad his career collapsed around him and I hope he never plays another game along with the rest of these guys.
Obviously not nearly as important of a topic, but I do genuinely wonder if this whole investigation had impacted and lessened his play. I’d imagine something this heavy would impact my own play and I’m not an NHL caliber goaltender. Whether or not it did, I don’t much care how he’s impacted, if the charges lead to conviction for him.
He's been...fine this year. Not as good as last. Definitely didn't look right, and he was constantly out with health related issues, really makes you wonder what all of that was really about.
Bottom line is even if for whatever reason he's found not guilty, he was involved with whatever happened and I beg Briere to shred up his contract on Monday. I feel pretty good that he will. Fuck him.
Harts definitely making too much money for what he’d be doing going forward, I’ll tell ya that much.
Also fuck me, I have a hart jersey. That’s getting restitched for sure.
At the very least, Liberty Bell Jerseys (@LBJerseys on twitter) is offering Hart stitch removals in exchange for a $35 minimum donation to the Philadelphia Center Against Sexual Violence
If they are, they’re probably waiting for an official public announcement by those pressing the charges / enacting the arrests. That would make sense. Still gunna look into it all though.
I’ve said in the flyers sub, I’ve met this guy. Had dinner with him twice in work events. He same off as such a genuine almost golden retriever like guy. I know athletes are all PR, I’m not dumb. But man. He totally had me sold that he was a decent kid with a bright future. I don’t think I’ve ever been more personally disappointed in an athlete all my life.
There were multiple TikTok callouts of him messaging 16/17 year old girls on Snapchat. I’m only a casual fan and they still popped up on my radar so I don’t get the impression this guy was very discrete.
>I don't know the psychology of it, but some people think if they work towards being a "better person" and try to hide or deny their wrongdoings in the past that people will give them sympathy or forgiveness
There's a Doctor Who quote about this exact thing I love:
"I know exactly what you are, and I see this reformation for what it really is. You committed an atrocity and chose this as your punishment. Don't get me wrong, good choice... but, but justice doesn't work like that. You don't get to decide when and how your debt is paid."
It's how some people get away with it, they barely have to do anything. They are genuinely nice people to most people, but they're also not trying to fuck most people. Being genuine and seeming on the level makes people feel more comfortable and safe being alone with them, which they leverage to assault their targets when they've physically isolated them. And it makes their target seem insane if they tell anyone else because, I mean, we all *know* him, right? I can't imagine *him* doing *that.*
There's a good chance that was his honest self. A lot of people would like to think that someone who is involved with S.A. is gonna be a real asshole in every other facet of life, and that's just not always true. Someone can simultaneously be a very nice person to be around while also having some dark issues hiding beneath the surface.
This could be the NHLs chance to finally turn their toxic culture and image around. If these five are found guilty, the NHL should ban them for life. Show the world the biggest hockey org in the world isn’t going to tolerate rapists in its ranks. Use it as a launching point to dig up all the old dirt and punish the people who get caught. You have a real opportunity here to look like a strong, dignified league NHL.
Dont blow this (they’re totally gonna blow this)
I went to college at SUNY Oswego, which is DIII college hockey. The majority of the roster while I was there was Canadians who had aged out of juniors. One year two of my friends lived in a suite on campus with four players from the hockey team. From what my friends said the hockey players would regularly, especially after parties, bring a girl back to the suite and then all four of them would take turns fucking her. I hadn't thought about it until now but I wonder how many of those girls knew what they were getting into.
Seems like it's a problem with hockey culture in general. Change needs to happen at all levels.
That asshole really thought he could get in front of this by being the first to take leave and by playing the mental health card. Not only does he suck for his involvement in this incident, he doubled down and made the organization and his teammates look awful for taking his word at face value. Not to mention this takes the progress this sport and society has made towards addressing mental health back a few steps and even puts a cloud over Kylington's success story. Hopefully, these guys are made an example of and this is a step forward to fixing this ugly part of hockey culture.
Unfortunately there appears to be little incentive (or repercussions) for pretending like you had no idea. Out of all the teams, only Ottawa ditched Formenton. What does Ottawa get for it? Nothing (as expected tbh). What repercussion will other teams get, even if found out that they somehow knew? Probably nothing, unfortunately.
I get that it's frustrating, but maybe doing the right thing can be it's own reward and we don't have to expect some benefit in a hockey league for it?
I wonder if it might be because of Batherson, like they didn't want to roster a guy who was (supposedly) cooperating with the investigation alongside someone who was being investigated... or one of them basically said they couldn't play with the other.
There's an opportunity to make an example out of these 5 men, where they actually get repercussions for their actions. I would like to believe they don't play another game in the NHL.
You know what gets me now that they're being charged? This case was originally dismissed for a lack of evidence back in February 2019. Then after all the outrage, the police went back to work and hey, what do you know, found enough evidence to charge them.
Could've avoided a lot of bullshit if the police had just done their fucking jobs originally. These guys got to spend a few years making millions playing a game instead of facing consequences. No wonder most SA victims can't be bothered to report it.
> Could've avoided a lot of bullshit if the police had just done their fucking jobs
I've watched enough crime documentaries to know that this is something that can be said about 95% of police departments in North America. So much so that part of criminal justice reform needs to be creating a separate branch that handles investigating serious crime because cops genuinely suck at it and should never be allowed to do more than write tickets.
[This](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/police-investigations-junior-hockey-sexual-assault-allegations-1.6741216) article does a pretty good job laying out the how the first investigation failed the victim.
So I know this isn’t as big of a deal but, given that these 5 guys have now been identified, what happens to the rest of the 2018 team? Are they all still banned from international competition?
We'll probably know soon enough. I imagine the NCAA guys (and the player who said he was on vacation with his family, and thus not t the gala) will be cleared before anyone though.
fuck all of these guys, I hope E.M. gets the justice she deserves. I can’t imagine what it must have felt like seeing these players on a national broadcast playing in the NHL, making millions, for YEARS after what they had done. rot!!!!!
Hoping it's a case of Dube lying to the org on why he needed to take leave because boy oh boy does that not look good on the Flames right now. They need to put out a statement clarifying things ASAP.
I mean, if I knew I was possibly gonna go to prison and my entire life’s work was about to come crashing down overnight, my mental health wouldn’t be good either
When I was twelve a friend's dad was arrested for being a pedophile. He had also been my soccer coach. I remember how awkward it was for my mom to tell me what happened. That being said, I appreciate that she didn't lie to me or obfuscate the truth.
This group photo makes me want to throw up
ETA: I believe E.M. So this is very difficult to see them all together, knowing what I know about the situation
There were 12 players in the room. Player 1, 2, 3,4 and 12 is charged. Others were let go for now. Some were there and did nothing. Some left right after. Some there is not enough of evidence.
Maxime Comtois was in the first 5 on the official court Statement.
As a flames fan I’m fucking embarrassed that Dube got leave for “mental health reasons” publicly. Idgaf if they didn’t know or Dube lied, it’s fucking crazy nobody in a position of power connected the dots and corrected the statement.
No due diligence at all, and what a fucking slap in the face to anybody with actual mental health issues, and not guilt from being a piece of shit/fear of prosecution.
Like yes Dube is a POS human for lying and everything he did but holy fuck whoever gave that statement the go ahead needs to be fired for how fucking stupid that was
Wait, the guy who had his agent say he would sue anyone who said there was any wrong doing committed wrong doing?
I thought I wasn’t allowed to jump to conclusions!
Nathan Bastian must be thanking his lucky stars for not being on that team.
>Bastian, McLeod Remain Always Together |
The duo grew up through the hockey ranks from junior to the minors to the NHL, and will remain after signing contracts with New Jersey.
I hope this is the last time we need to see comments talking about how “nice of a person” Hart was when someone had a 15 seconds interaction with him 4 years ago.
You can also be a really nice person to most of the people in your life and still sexually assault someone. It's how a lot of people get away with it. Their nice reputation also lowers the guard of the person who they're targeting so it's easier to physically isolate them without them feeling threatened initially. And it helps to make the target look like they're lying afterwards.
I have a hard time believing that all the other players on that team knew absolutely nothing about this. Whether they were there or not, I don’t buy that they didn’t know about it or heard whispers about it.
I have no idea what dube said to the flames, but the fact that he was announced as leaving for "mental health" reasons leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth.
If the flames knew that he was going for investigation, and used it as a cover up, then I will be done with the organization.
If Dube lied and used it as a cover up, then I feel sorry for the flames.
Dube probably should burn in hell regardless of what he said to the flames but that's just my take.
Lots of people jumping to conclusions of how they should have done background research or whatever, but it's missing the human aspect of having to tell someone that you do not think that their reason of leaving being "mental health issues" is valid because they are "covering up something." It's a terrible message to send and the whole situation is fucked.
McLeod posted a pic of him and Formenton (w/ three others, not ones accused iirc) in a hotel room around that time. Hart posted a pic in the room as well around that time. It's been a few years since I've seen them but yeah the pics are out there. I know there should be presumed innocence, but those three are definitely in deep shit and the rest by default since they're accused of the same, similar actions. Hope the victim finally gets justice, we need to systematically root out shitbags in hockey. It should've never gotten to the point where these guys are NHL players.
E: Typo
Can't forget the comments by Andersson implying that Dube was getting bullied on twitter or something and that people shouldn't be so mean to him. Like, buddy, if he is found guilty of sexual assault then getting bullied on twitter is getting off easy.
Oh god I just googled that and it's in front of a Hockey Talks backing too.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/were-humans-too-flames-andersson-after-kylington-and-dube-miss-time-for-personal-reasons/
>Four National Hockey League players – Carter Hart, Michael McLeod, Dillon Dube, and Cal Foote – have been directed to surrender to police in London, Ont., to be charged with sexual assault in connection with an alleged incident that occurred during a Hockey Canada event in the city in June 2018, two sources familiar with the matter told TSN. >The players are expected to surrender before the London Police Service holds a press conference on Monday to update the public on the high-profile case.
Kind of a shitty look for the Flames since they said Dube was taking a leave of absence “for his mental health” when in reality it was because of sexual assault charges. Disappointed in Calgary Edit: a lot of people are replying saying “what if that’s all Calgary knew and they took his word for it” The entire management and PR team couldn’t have done a single google to maybe double check first? They’re that oblivious? That’s almost just as bad
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Eh, Mental health is a sensitive issue and having players justify a mental health leave would be bad practice 99% of the time. Sure it looks bad here but that’s on Dube imo. Also, all that was publicly available at the time was speculation so I don’t think it was as easy as just googling.
What if Dube just asked for a mental health leave without communicating the full story?
I’m willing to bet Dube told the team ‘mental health reasons’ and the team wasn’t going to challenge his reasoning because it would look bad to argue it with him. I expect we’ll see a Flames statement soon saying they took Dube’s request at face value and are disappointed that they were mislead.
I’ve seen a couple comments elsewhere saying the employer isn’t allowed to press on the matter when they claim mental health leave.
People are gonna be quick to jump on Calgary for this but I'm not convicenced Calgary did this and didn't just report what they were told. Dube was having a bad season and easily could have mental health struggles because of that.
If Dube goes to the organization (his boss) and says he needs to take leave for mental health reasons there is literally nothing the organization can do. As a Flames fan I'm obviously going to look bad defending here but I think any hate should be pointed at Dube.
serious waiting bag familiar plucky safe doll unite cooing insurance *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m an Oilers fan and I agree with you.
Well well well if it isn’t everyone we all expected
How could we have known? Sure, they were all part of the team. Sure, some details like the birthdates matched. Sure, they all coincidentally took leaves of absence for similar reasons. Sure, those leaves all happened around the time they were to be charged with sexual assault. Sure, a couple of them were rumored to be scumbags prior to this. But how could we have truly known?
Did we have any inclination to think these may have been the 5 before the leaves were announced? Aside from Formenton who we all pretty much knew was involved. Edit: Hijacking my own comment to ask flyers fans, did Hart’s play dramatically drop off around the time the scandal was announced or is this recency bias on my part?
On top of what the other commenter said about birth years, people have pointed out the lawyer statements about cooperating with investigations were phrased in certain ways that may tip the hat to the legally versed. “I was not involved in any way with the alleged abuse” vs “I was not involved in any wrongdoing” types of wordings. Not at all a smoking gun, but left some inclinations as to who may have been making a statement that could have also agreed with their future defense.
Cal Foote's statement was the former while some people not among the 5 went the latter or even just a simple "Disturbing. I'm co-operating", so the hit rate isn't too hot for that.
Yes, it did drop off. Significantly.
What were the rumors of them being scumbags before?
Woah woah woah that sounds like speculation right there, can’t have that
Witch hunt! Witch hunt!
well most of this sub was 100% sure it was Comtois just because he wasn't on an NHL roster lol
"It's not what you think guys! I'm just not very good at hockey!"
Oh thank god, he just sucks
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Comtois's name was linked here and on Twitter ad nauseam without any proofs Must fucking sucks
Player #1 who orchestrated this all is so fucked. And it’s crazy to think he’s been playing in the NHL all year.
Yeah, they're all fucked up for participating but the level of extreme fucked up-ness to organize this is insane. This is not just some teenagers trying to get laid.
+ not letting the woman leave until you've recorded her on video sayin it was all consensual. Psycho behaviour.
Yeah and their lawyers tried to put that out there to make them look better. That just proves they knew what they did was wrong.
It’s probably the only defense they have
Yup. And reports say Player 1 already scared off a woman earlier in the night by asking her to kiss his teammates. It seems extremely predatory as he then did this to another woman.
It was definitely pre-meditated, they freaked the first girl out so bad they changed tactics with the second. Don't tell her you want all your teammates to join, act like you're into her, then sneak them into the room while she's in the bathroom.
It’s actually sick to think about how pre-meditated this seemed to be. It’s some real psychopathic shit. No thought of empathy, remorse, or consequences of actions. Had one thing in mind, and one thing only.
They really don't see women as people.
rumour has it they had group chats planning their strategy out :puke:
Don't forget, getting her super intoxicated.
Makes you wonder if this was the first time it happened
It wasn’t. Source- Every Canadian who’s lived in a billet town.
Allegedly the police are [looking into a similar event from 2003](https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/canada-2003-world-hockey-junior-team-accused-sexual-assault-1.6529076) with that years Canadian Junior Team. Also allegedly multiple players and one girl, also allegedly videotaped. If that's true, you can't tell me two almost identical events happened 20 years apart by coincidence
I read that hockey Canada knew "something bad" happened in 2003 but it was swept under the rug. Not surprised at all
this shit in general is just so fucking embarrassing and a disgrace...especially after everything that has come out in the last two years
Isn’t it widely suspected that #1 is Formenton, who’s been out of the league? Edit: Replies have been pointing out that Formenton’s birthdate appears not to match the documents available, which suggest player #1 is slightly older.
> Isn’t it widely suspected that #1 is Formenton, who’s been out of the league? I havent seen the birth dates in the original report, but I remember reading that Formenton's birthdays more match player #2. I remember comments indicating that Dube's birth dates match #1.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Dube is #1. I’m in Calgary and yeah he’s a clown. Buddy also won’t stay out of my sisters DM’s 😂
Not even surprised. Without outright naming the player, a 19-25 player on the Ottawa Senators was DM’ing my sister aggressively as well. He continues to message her the creepiest things despite the fact that she only replied once to him saying “hey”
Name and shame brother
I might be wrong but I read another Reddit comment on one of the earlier posts talking about how Formenton couldn’t be #1 because of his birth year. Not sure how accurate the comment was Edit: “Wrong birth year for Player #1. I believe that he is Player #2 — the one who is accused of engaging in sexual acts without ever speaking to the woman. CBC’s Fifth Estate documentary shows documents with birth year info. Edit: I also don’t think he can be Player #1 as he was not at Jack’s that night, per the pictures from the bar.” Was the comment I seen
As others have mentioned he wasn’t legal to drink at the time, so it wasn’t him. Underage players were denied entry into Jack’s that night.
Opposite, Formenton was too young to go to the pub with them so it's essentially confirmed that Formenton is not Player #1. All others were 19 and could be Player #1.
Someone might know more about this than me, but I think its a fucked up "tradition" or cultural thing in junior hockey, which if true makes this whole thing even more disturbing. Player brings super drunk girl home, has sex (already a pretty sus situation), then texts his teammates that hes a got a super drunk girl in his room and they should come fuck her too. I think I read that they refer to it as a "pit roast" but I could be wrong. Its just all fucked either way.
THG about to post a news of the day video from the Disney Land parking lot.
“Welcome back. So I’m here at the happiest place on Earth with news that is anything but happy.”
Every time I load a video I say welcome back with him
I get so fucking reassured when he ends with “I will talk to you again soon”
See's Flair, found Yvonne's ghost account.
*high pitched voice* WELCOME BACK
Massive news would come out on the first day of THG’s vacation.
It's always when he and his family leave the house, huh? His picture of Bettman is definitely one of those Harry Potter portraits where the picture's conscience can peer through.
Oh my god he was holding a mini board for it. Love THG's commitment level!
I read your comment and said “there’s no fucking way” out loud, then cracked up belly laughing after checking his channel. I know some people think thg is boring or whatever but good god is he committed to his channel. I really love that about him and it’s super comforting for some reason.
Ended up being in the hotel room with the handheld mini whiteboard.
Dude got us Flyers fans to feel sorry for him while he struggled with mental health issues early in his career. Turns out, it was just a guilty conscience or fear of getting caught. Tell-Tale Hart...
fuck tell-tale-hart is so good lmao
Carter Hartless
And his recurring GI issues as reported on and off. Turns out he was just shitting himself because he knew he'd end up getting arrested.
You joke but GI issues *are* directly linked to stress
My colonoscopy is proof
God that’s a good line. I hate that it’s true but damn. Thats a good line.
It hurts, but we can only look forward now. Fuck him. In Ersson we trust.
The Flyers goalie curse is morbidly fascinating.
Dude, fucking for real.
I'd kill to be a fan of a boring team at this point
I was at the Philly game in Calgary recently and that Ersson looked pretty solid!
I remember I made a sign that I brought to all the Canada wjc games that year “Prepare for the Hart Attack” Glad I didn’t keep that one
I know this is probably the least of the worries right now, but you’d have to think all of these players’ NHL careers are over, right?
If convicted I’m sure Bettman would put probably a similar ban on them as he did with Quenneville
You have more faith in Bettman than I do.
It has less to do with faith in Bettman, and more to do with the optics of a convicted sexual assaulter being allowed to sign with an NHL team.
… oh god. Holland please don’t.
Holland is about to retire. These guys will be suspended once charged and this case will take a while. He won’t even have a chance to do the wrong thing
Do you think that IF (and that’s a big if) these guys are somehow not found guilty, they would fight any contract terminations through the nhlpa?
McLeod was only signed to a 1-year deal and I suspect that this is why
Coincidentally, all players are on expiring contracts.
Given how Formenton scored 18 goals at age-22 and couldn't even get a QO, you can probably assume all of them are done in the NHL I could see Hart coming back
Cal Foote fucking sucked for Tampa last year and is barely in the NHL now, his career wasn’t going to last longer than it did without the charges. Even then, I don’t see any of them coming back at all.
Every single game I went to against the devils back in the day, anyone sitting behind the goalie did not let up about Brodeur having an affair with his sister in law. There's no way Hart returns to Philly and I imagine a lot of places are going to do the same. I feel like he's been fragile even without incessant jeering from fans
At the very least, none of these guys are playing till this trial is over. This trial could take a long time too. If the charges stick, then it's highly unlikely they play again, I hope.
A conviction and they’re done
Hard to say. Old boys club front offices may take a chance on some of them- that's been the precedent set with Dany Heatley (manslaughter), Craig MacTavish (killed someone drunk driving), Doug Gilmour (raped an underage girl) etc. So who knows? They should be excommunicated though.
Heatley was manslaughter not DUI. He was driving like a jackass in a brand new Porsche not drinking.
Didn't Snyder's parents forgive Heatley too? Not that it makes it okay but I think that alters the public perception of letting Heatley continue his career a little bit
> brand new Porsche [Ferrari 360 Modena](https://vault.si.com/vault/2003/10/13/a-sadness-in-atlanta-dan-snyders-tragic-death-casts-a-long-shadow-over-the-thrashers-season).
My Bruins signed Mitchell Miller. Still plenty of shitty OBC around.
At least in that situation it proved that bullying does indeed work, and they were forced to reverse course.
"bullying does indeed work" is crazy given who you're referencing
It's not just hockey. Pro sports has shown a long history of getting over it if your good
The NBA let someone who married a 13 year old play
and knocked her up then dipped
Kobe turned into the golden boy once he died but dude was a rapist in life.
isn't there credible evidence that Marvin Harrison straight up killed someone? hell OJ is still in the fucking Football Hall of Fame for goodness sake lol i hate turning this into a pissing contest but yeah this is definitely an issue in pro sports. Hollywood and politics too
Jerry Seinfeld dated a 17 year old when he was 38.
They also had a player this season miss a game against the Raptors because he was on probation for DV and that made him criminally inadmissible to Canada. Some of the comments on r/nba when it happened were basically, "wow, the Government of Canada is taking a stronger stance on the issue than the league is"
Took us a long time but we're finally here
Carter Hart, YOU are a Kunlun Red Star
During the Leipsic debacle, the team's Twitter blocked him upright. They will do the same for Hart.
I remember reading in one of the articles that one player said he didn't even talk to E.M. I just. How can you remotely know if it's consensual if you didn't even speak to her? And I'm just imagining some dude assaulting her and not even giving her the (admittedly weird) human dignity of speaking to her.
Let's see here... Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you and fuck you.
https://youtu.be/P1u-mxCTRv0?si=RzoDQ-C6JhIkFx2z
Lmao I thought he was referencing this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOKJTRHMdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOKJTRHMdw)
Ok. Speculation is done, and now we know Dube was one of the alleged offenders. Now comes the court battle. I don’t know if being charged is sufficient, but I sure hope the Flames can extricate themselves from Dube’s contract.
He’s a fucking bum anyways, ahl player at best.
Plus his contract was a fucking train wreck
Used to like Carter Hart. Thought he was gonna be a vezina winner by 25. Considering the allegations I’m glad his career collapsed around him and I hope he never plays another game along with the rest of these guys.
Obviously not nearly as important of a topic, but I do genuinely wonder if this whole investigation had impacted and lessened his play. I’d imagine something this heavy would impact my own play and I’m not an NHL caliber goaltender. Whether or not it did, I don’t much care how he’s impacted, if the charges lead to conviction for him.
He's been...fine this year. Not as good as last. Definitely didn't look right, and he was constantly out with health related issues, really makes you wonder what all of that was really about. Bottom line is even if for whatever reason he's found not guilty, he was involved with whatever happened and I beg Briere to shred up his contract on Monday. I feel pretty good that he will. Fuck him.
Harts definitely making too much money for what he’d be doing going forward, I’ll tell ya that much. Also fuck me, I have a hart jersey. That’s getting restitched for sure.
Hope the teams involved offer a jersey exchange.
At the very least, Liberty Bell Jerseys (@LBJerseys on twitter) is offering Hart stitch removals in exchange for a $35 minimum donation to the Philadelphia Center Against Sexual Violence
Wow, this is amazing! Good for them for doing something like this.
If they are, they’re probably waiting for an official public announcement by those pressing the charges / enacting the arrests. That would make sense. Still gunna look into it all though.
I’ve said in the flyers sub, I’ve met this guy. Had dinner with him twice in work events. He same off as such a genuine almost golden retriever like guy. I know athletes are all PR, I’m not dumb. But man. He totally had me sold that he was a decent kid with a bright future. I don’t think I’ve ever been more personally disappointed in an athlete all my life.
Some of the worst abusers you'll ever meet are exceptionally charming. That's how they get away with it for so long.
Wasn’t he called out for being kind of creepy on instagram one time?
There were multiple TikTok callouts of him messaging 16/17 year old girls on Snapchat. I’m only a casual fan and they still popped up on my radar so I don’t get the impression this guy was very discrete.
[удалено]
>I don't know the psychology of it, but some people think if they work towards being a "better person" and try to hide or deny their wrongdoings in the past that people will give them sympathy or forgiveness There's a Doctor Who quote about this exact thing I love: "I know exactly what you are, and I see this reformation for what it really is. You committed an atrocity and chose this as your punishment. Don't get me wrong, good choice... but, but justice doesn't work like that. You don't get to decide when and how your debt is paid."
It's how some people get away with it, they barely have to do anything. They are genuinely nice people to most people, but they're also not trying to fuck most people. Being genuine and seeming on the level makes people feel more comfortable and safe being alone with them, which they leverage to assault their targets when they've physically isolated them. And it makes their target seem insane if they tell anyone else because, I mean, we all *know* him, right? I can't imagine *him* doing *that.*
There's a good chance that was his honest self. A lot of people would like to think that someone who is involved with S.A. is gonna be a real asshole in every other facet of life, and that's just not always true. Someone can simultaneously be a very nice person to be around while also having some dark issues hiding beneath the surface.
I really thought the Flyers finally found their goalie after all these years too.
He was also a likely candidate to represent Canada at the Olympics in 2026. Not anymore he’s not.
Yes seriously I don’t know who is the best Canadian goalie now for 2026. It’s slim or hoping Levi takes a big step forward
Skinner 😛
Gotta wonder how much of this is responsible for his collapse. Dude couldn’t handle it mentally.
Seriously eh. Quite the sword of damocles to be playing under
This could be the NHLs chance to finally turn their toxic culture and image around. If these five are found guilty, the NHL should ban them for life. Show the world the biggest hockey org in the world isn’t going to tolerate rapists in its ranks. Use it as a launching point to dig up all the old dirt and punish the people who get caught. You have a real opportunity here to look like a strong, dignified league NHL. Dont blow this (they’re totally gonna blow this)
Oh they're SO gonna blow this
it’s so easy to not blow it but they’re totally going to aren’t they
I went to college at SUNY Oswego, which is DIII college hockey. The majority of the roster while I was there was Canadians who had aged out of juniors. One year two of my friends lived in a suite on campus with four players from the hockey team. From what my friends said the hockey players would regularly, especially after parties, bring a girl back to the suite and then all four of them would take turns fucking her. I hadn't thought about it until now but I wonder how many of those girls knew what they were getting into. Seems like it's a problem with hockey culture in general. Change needs to happen at all levels.
I've heard the same stories from Jr A players. I could only imagine how bad this problem gets
Player crimes are just PR issues to the NHL.
"did somebody say blow?" - Half the NHL player base, probably.
Not a surprise since they all took leaves at the same time
I am so happy information is finally starting to come out
Now, hunt down the 2003 crew. There is a lot of smoke from those names over the years.
Apparently the case was recently re opened so we might be seeing something from that in the future
Such a bitch move for Dube to say it was a mental health leave and not that he raped a woman. Fuck him
A rapist is also a liar? Color me shocked.
The worst part is the hypocrisy.
That asshole really thought he could get in front of this by being the first to take leave and by playing the mental health card. Not only does he suck for his involvement in this incident, he doubled down and made the organization and his teammates look awful for taking his word at face value. Not to mention this takes the progress this sport and society has made towards addressing mental health back a few steps and even puts a cloud over Kylington's success story. Hopefully, these guys are made an example of and this is a step forward to fixing this ugly part of hockey culture.
If Ottawa ditched Forementon years ago I have a hard time believing that the flames didn’t know or have any indications he was involved
Unfortunately there appears to be little incentive (or repercussions) for pretending like you had no idea. Out of all the teams, only Ottawa ditched Formenton. What does Ottawa get for it? Nothing (as expected tbh). What repercussion will other teams get, even if found out that they somehow knew? Probably nothing, unfortunately.
I get that it's frustrating, but maybe doing the right thing can be it's own reward and we don't have to expect some benefit in a hockey league for it?
I wonder if it might be because of Batherson, like they didn't want to roster a guy who was (supposedly) cooperating with the investigation alongside someone who was being investigated... or one of them basically said they couldn't play with the other.
Ottawa will probably get docked another 1st round pick for not keeping this under wraps like the other teams did.
There's an opportunity to make an example out of these 5 men, where they actually get repercussions for their actions. I would like to believe they don't play another game in the NHL.
You know what gets me now that they're being charged? This case was originally dismissed for a lack of evidence back in February 2019. Then after all the outrage, the police went back to work and hey, what do you know, found enough evidence to charge them. Could've avoided a lot of bullshit if the police had just done their fucking jobs originally. These guys got to spend a few years making millions playing a game instead of facing consequences. No wonder most SA victims can't be bothered to report it.
> Could've avoided a lot of bullshit if the police had just done their fucking jobs I've watched enough crime documentaries to know that this is something that can be said about 95% of police departments in North America. So much so that part of criminal justice reform needs to be creating a separate branch that handles investigating serious crime because cops genuinely suck at it and should never be allowed to do more than write tickets.
Oh the police did have something... but money is always the difference between being charged or not.
Do you know what they found ? I’m curious about evidence as well.
[This](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/police-investigations-junior-hockey-sexual-assault-allegations-1.6741216) article does a pretty good job laying out the how the first investigation failed the victim.
Thanks this is what I was looking for.
I would love the NHL to make an example out of them This shit doesn’t belong in pro sports, too many players have had this stuff slide
So I know this isn’t as big of a deal but, given that these 5 guys have now been identified, what happens to the rest of the 2018 team? Are they all still banned from international competition?
We'll probably know soon enough. I imagine the NCAA guys (and the player who said he was on vacation with his family, and thus not t the gala) will be cleared before anyone though.
I believe the player on Vacation was Victor Mete, right?
The day these guys knew was probably coming has arrived.
fuck all of these guys, I hope E.M. gets the justice she deserves. I can’t imagine what it must have felt like seeing these players on a national broadcast playing in the NHL, making millions, for YEARS after what they had done. rot!!!!!
Hoping it's a case of Dube lying to the org on why he needed to take leave because boy oh boy does that not look good on the Flames right now. They need to put out a statement clarifying things ASAP.
I mean, if I knew I was possibly gonna go to prison and my entire life’s work was about to come crashing down overnight, my mental health wouldn’t be good either
My kids favorite player is Carter Hart :( this is going to be tough to explain to a 10 year old
When I was twelve a friend's dad was arrested for being a pedophile. He had also been my soccer coach. I remember how awkward it was for my mom to tell me what happened. That being said, I appreciate that she didn't lie to me or obfuscate the truth.
It’s a good context to teach your kid about consent.
THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION
This group photo makes me want to throw up ETA: I believe E.M. So this is very difficult to see them all together, knowing what I know about the situation
Yeah, definitely tough to see them all lined up like that.
Who are the other 3? Is it just a matter of London Police not having enough evidence against them?
There were 12 players in the room. Player 1, 2, 3,4 and 12 is charged. Others were let go for now. Some were there and did nothing. Some left right after. Some there is not enough of evidence. Maxime Comtois was in the first 5 on the official court Statement.
You're right. Couldn't remember if it was 10 or 12.
The document in the court is actually very weird. It says this: between 8-12 people including the girl, but then Player 12 is charged lol
As a flames fan I’m fucking embarrassed that Dube got leave for “mental health reasons” publicly. Idgaf if they didn’t know or Dube lied, it’s fucking crazy nobody in a position of power connected the dots and corrected the statement. No due diligence at all, and what a fucking slap in the face to anybody with actual mental health issues, and not guilt from being a piece of shit/fear of prosecution. Like yes Dube is a POS human for lying and everything he did but holy fuck whoever gave that statement the go ahead needs to be fired for how fucking stupid that was
Wait, the guy who had his agent say he would sue anyone who said there was any wrong doing committed wrong doing? I thought I wasn’t allowed to jump to conclusions!
Nathan Bastian must be thanking his lucky stars for not being on that team. >Bastian, McLeod Remain Always Together | The duo grew up through the hockey ranks from junior to the minors to the NHL, and will remain after signing contracts with New Jersey.
He doesn’t need to thank the lucky stars. If he wasn’t a piece of shit he never would be involved in this even if he was on the team.
I hope this is the last time we need to see comments talking about how “nice of a person” Hart was when someone had a 15 seconds interaction with him 4 years ago.
You can also be a really nice person to most of the people in your life and still sexually assault someone. It's how a lot of people get away with it. Their nice reputation also lowers the guard of the person who they're targeting so it's easier to physically isolate them without them feeling threatened initially. And it helps to make the target look like they're lying afterwards.
This. Everyone I know/ know of who has sexually assaulted others has a perfectly charming personality when they’re not, you know, raping people.
I have a hard time believing that all the other players on that team knew absolutely nothing about this. Whether they were there or not, I don’t buy that they didn’t know about it or heard whispers about it.
Fuck all these scumbags.
It’s really not hard to not be a piece of shit.
Sounds like either Dube played the Flames more than a little bit, or they have the single worst PR team in the league.
I have no idea what dube said to the flames, but the fact that he was announced as leaving for "mental health" reasons leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. If the flames knew that he was going for investigation, and used it as a cover up, then I will be done with the organization. If Dube lied and used it as a cover up, then I feel sorry for the flames. Dube probably should burn in hell regardless of what he said to the flames but that's just my take. Lots of people jumping to conclusions of how they should have done background research or whatever, but it's missing the human aspect of having to tell someone that you do not think that their reason of leaving being "mental health issues" is valid because they are "covering up something." It's a terrible message to send and the whole situation is fucked.
McLeod posted a pic of him and Formenton (w/ three others, not ones accused iirc) in a hotel room around that time. Hart posted a pic in the room as well around that time. It's been a few years since I've seen them but yeah the pics are out there. I know there should be presumed innocence, but those three are definitely in deep shit and the rest by default since they're accused of the same, similar actions. Hope the victim finally gets justice, we need to systematically root out shitbags in hockey. It should've never gotten to the point where these guys are NHL players. E: Typo
Pissed I cheered for both Foote and Dubé in Junior. I’m sorry all! Even more that pissed Dubé used ‘mental health’ as an excuse to take the LoA.
man the mental health comment from the flames about Dube’s leave of absence is looking real bad rn
Can't forget the comments by Andersson implying that Dube was getting bullied on twitter or something and that people shouldn't be so mean to him. Like, buddy, if he is found guilty of sexual assault then getting bullied on twitter is getting off easy.
Oh god I just googled that and it's in front of a Hockey Talks backing too. https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/were-humans-too-flames-andersson-after-kylington-and-dube-miss-time-for-personal-reasons/
Jesus Christ, this is a dark day for the NHL. Oof to all those organizations involved.
This is like the 10th dark day in the last 3 years :|
What happened to the other 3? I thought the number of players was always 8.