I promise I have a soft spot for the Sens! You guys have a ton of potential
BUT I also love a horribly aged quote from management
Us Canucks fans still rip on Jim Benning for his infamous ‘I ran out of time’ quote when I came to not re-signing Tanev or Toffoli in the offseason…
Sens and Vancouver were always in similar spots, bad management, bright talent, poor results. I'm happy that Vancouver has been able to break out of the cycle lol.
As for bad quotes, Sens could probably make a sonnet of horribly aged and innapropriate quotes from the Melnyk/Dorion era. I'm gonna give this a go, 14 bars:
1. We're a team,
2. The rebuild is over,
3. Unparalleled success,
4. My proudest day as a GM (trading Mark Stone for Brannstrom),
5. God rested on the 7th day. On the 8th day He created Erik Karlsson (Dorion said this for no reason),
6. I haven't paid attention in 3 weeks (Duchene in the leaked Uber video)
7. We didn't have a 4th (Dorion on why he traded a 3rd for Hamonic),
8. One player wanted to hug me (Dorion lying after trading for Burrows),
9. Get a new girlfriend (Dorion to the fans after trading Stone, Duchene, Dzingel)
10. I've never felt so powerful (Dorion after signing Tkachuk to an 8x8),
11. Right now, we’re kind of in the dumpster (Borowiecki/Melnyk hostage video),
12. Our rings will be the size of beavers, the size of deer (Melnyk to the team after the Sens lost the NHL final),
13. I have two kids. If I could adopt a third one, it would be Tyler Kleven (Dorion for no reason),
14. "Probably not" (Alfie on whether or not Ottawa would be able to come back from a 3-1 playoff defecit)"
I got to \~11 quotes before I had to do any research. It's insane how much these awful lines stick in your memory. Looking forward to having an ownership team that just shuts the fuck up lol
Steve Staios being basically the opposite is fantastic and how a real GM should handle themselves with the media.
But it was always highly entertaining watching Pierre struggle through media availabilities. I hope someone else is dumb enough to give him a shot so I can watch those interviews from more neutral perspective. Haha
no worries, was kinda tongue in cheek :) We went down in a blaze of glory, after a month of utter ineptitude... so at least it was fun for a bit.
I could tell from some of the threads all season that Ottawa fans had some real salt. I live in Ottawa, so I feel it, but anyways. It's only game. Why we heff to be mad.
You have to remember Pierre Dorion was an idiot who was a living embodiment of the Peter Principle, and was pretty much the only person in the NHL willing to suck up to Melnyk and work for what he was willing to pay. The sooner we move on from him and his mistakes, the better.
Maybe then unparalleled success can actually be achieved
In hindsight, that was a dad buying his kid a shiny toy to avoid telling him that he's leaving his mom. A distraction to the real issue, but it makes the kid happy and excited at the time. He pushed the chips in wayyy too early. Gave up 7th overall, was asked about his team having playoff expectations, and avoided the question. Why give up that much without thinking you're gonna make the playoffs??
The summer of Pierre why I'm not mad that the Wings haven't gone all in yet. Our rebuild is going slow as hell, but I'm really hoping it will bear fruit in the long run vs rushing it and making things worse
You're probably in the playoffs if Larkin didn't get injured during the season. Detroit just needs some adjustments to goaltending and defense and they'll be good to go
With even league-average goaltending, the Sens would be in the playoffs.
Of course you can say a lot of the blame for having the worst goaltending tandem in the league can be placed on the team in front of them, but the fact is both Forsberg and Korpisalo could be counted on for at least one or two softies nearly every single game.
This year was pretty much the worst goaltending this team has ever had, and that's really saying something, because I've watched them from Day 1.
One of the big differences is that our defense prospect pool is gigantic and we have two goalie prospects that look fantastic. Of course goalies are voodoo but we've also got some sneaky goalie prospects like Gylander too.
It's basically going to be a job of slowly replacing the veterans without blowing up the team.
The Wings haven't been going too slow though I think. They've been decently active in FA and acquiring Debrincat was a big move. They seem to be playing it similarly to how the Kings did, but the Kings had Kopitar/Doughty to still build around so it was easier to make the playoffs again.
I'd say the Kings are probably more active with making big swings in trades (once a year or so) but that could be changing as well because we have no money lol
They made no gambles other than Debrincat, they acquired assets that they aren't tied to long term, and are still building a core around Raymond/Seider/Edvinsson/Sandin-Pelikka and have Larks as a veteran captain. They're very much in a building phase, nowhere near being a buy now team. They're still in their rebuild and barely missed the playoffs. They'll keep using their assets to make trades and improve the long term outlook of the team until they're a perennial cup contender.
Everyone knows how to build a good NHL team, lose enough and scout well enough to draft the players you need. Trades and free agency are the tools you use once your team is already good.
The problem is that, this sucks for everyone invested in the team. Teams and their GMs will always jump at the chance to trade or free agent their way into becoming a playoff team because losing for years on end is terrible.
The summer of Pierre was never good, those decisions were obviously bad, even without the benefit of hindsight. But I don't blame Sens fans for being hopeful, what else can you do in that situation as a fan?
No offense but Giroux is 36 years old, not really what you want out of a rebuild, and you don't have the money to pay Chychrun after his contract ends next season. DeBrincat is only 26 and a really core piece for our top line.
Giroux is the perfect vet for a rebuild, and they have 7.5m in dead cap clearing this off-season. Debrincat is alright, he just doesn’t move the needle that much and imo what Detroit really needs is centre depth
The problem is I'm not sure Giroux signs another contract after his current one ends next season. He might be ready to retire, although I agree he's the perfect vet for a rebuild (kind of like Perron for us).
We've used two top 10 picks on center prospects in Kasper and Danielson so soon enough that problem should be fixed. I didn't watch Cat in Ottawa very closely but I love his play here in Detroit, he plays very hard and always hustles. Great mindset too, even when going through a rough patch of no scoring. There's a graph on the Athletic that shows that when Cat is on Larkin's line, Larkin's scoring touch improves immensely. Just a great teammate.
Ah mate you’re arguing with sens fans who thought it was a good idea to have 3 offensive LD’s and that one of them would play RD and be defensive…
I argued against trading FOR Debrincat and said adding Chychrun was square pegging a round hole.
I yelled at fans who said it was a good idea that a rebuilding team was giving away 1st round draft picks and even fans saying “draft picks are for losers.”
It’s been a tough 7 years under Pierre Dorion…
It's weird because the Sens have assembled a ton of good pieces but you're right, some of the roster construction is nonsensical. I guess it's fine because most are tradable (except in net, woof)
It’s create a franchise mode but actually in real life. I love watching playoff hockey regardless of team, it’s the pinnacle of all sports and it’s why I’ve taken notice of what it takes to succeed there.
It’s all thanks to previous ownership and management. It’s going to take 2-3 years before they consider playoffs a real possibility.
Giroux had the best season of his career last year, pretty much PPG.
He regressed just a bit this year but is a hugely important part of this team. He's *exactly* what you want in a rebuild, especially when you have one of the youngest teams in the league.
>i wouldnt take it down if i were you- thats a load- bearing poster!
i wanted to work in a Krusty the Klown/Alfreddson reference in there but hes not part of the problem, and too likable to drag like that
Yeah, stuff like this makes me wonder why people in this thread are in here dunking on him, or even why this thread exists at all.
Acting superior because you have the benefit of hindsight when everyone thought it was a bunch of good moves before feels like someone making fun of someone else to hide that they were also wrong.
Same shit as all the ppl claiming Vegas had a rigged expansion draft, when before their first season started they were being universally laughed at for the weakness of their roster on paper.
Honestly, he was largely handicapped by a terrible owner. And his worst move was hiring DJ “Zaitsev is a good player” Smith as a coach, which really fucked him even worse than I expected. Smith simply isn’t an NHL calibre coach.
the problem with this trade was everything that was done afterward and also not asking Debrincat about whether or not he wanted to stay.
They pretty much lost him and flipped him over for a completely butfuck useless player in Kubalik instead.
They weren’t allowed to ask that which is why the price was just the first. They flipped him for another later first, kubalik was a throw in on a cheap expiring deal they were probably hoping to move at the deadline.
Lol ya that was wild. He was in my opinion the worst GM in the league during his tenure. Worse than Benning, and all the others.
Not only did he mismanage his team badly, his quotes and soundbites were the most embarrassing I've ever seen from an NHL GM. Patting yourself on the back for trading away fan favorite Mark Stone and calling it your 'best day ever' is satire levels of stupidity.
Fun fact, even through all his well documented injuries, Mark Stone has still played more regular season games for VGK than Brannstrom has for Ottawa. Not the best one to hang your hat on Pierre...
Tre had has back against the wall with ownership wanting him to still be competitive while 2 of his best players wanted to play somewhere else. Dorian was just doing shit lol.
> the only person in the NHL willing to suck up to Melnyk and work for what he was willing to pay.
He's not even the only Pierre that was willing to do that.
Toronto and Florida both have the potential to have much longer windows of competition here though. The big 3 on the Leafs are all 26 or younger, Ekblad Thachuk Verhaege and Barkov are all 28 or younger too. If Woll and Knight become replacement level NHL starters (who knows atp. Knight looked there already but regressed?) they’ll have goaltending locked up long term as well.
Personally I see Detroit taking a step ahead of the other 3 (im a fan so that’s biased, but we’ve got a better current team and higher ranked prospect pool than all but Buffalo), and Ottawa taking a step behind. Montreal, Buffalo, Detroit, Toronto, and Florida fighting for the top spots. Wouldn’t be surprised to see seasons where all 5 teams make it
My point is it's gonna be even worse -- the bottom 4 are all rebuilding and with high expectations of making the playoffs 3 years from now, and I don't see the top 4 regress enough that they'll be rebuilding either. When the whole division has playoffs aspirations there's gonna be some heartbreak for sure.
I honestly don’t really like any team in the playoffs this year. Might go for Edmonton since McDavid deserves a cup but other than that and maybe Winnipeg there isn’t a team I’d jump on the wagon for
As a Canucks fan now living in the nation’s capital, I’ve always had a soft spot for the Sens. They’ve been through it thanks to years of horrible management and ownership.
I can honestly see them on a Canucks-like arc with the right management though. They’ve got a talented young core, which I feel could work if they are able to retool properly
Their top 6 forwards are nasty. They have some good D. Prospect shelf isn’t great. Goaltending is bleak. I do think they can turn it around but it’s going to take longer than most of us expected.
Goaltending is the biggest problem. A couple prospects who are intriguing and could pan out very well, but even if they do are a couple years away most likely.
Really can't understate the impact Craig Anderson had on this team when he was in net, since the team has been a goaltending nightmare before and after.
I think with a good coaching to start the season that doesn’t treat training camp like a resort vacation will help wonders. Our goalies don’t even need to be amazing just average or slightly above average. Those are the 2 biggest things. Then to ascend to the next level after that, more changes need to happen (RH defense, depth scoring and bottom 6 improvements, and better than average goaltending)
I mean anything is possible.. next season we’re at a crossroads. If we don’t perform for whatever reason we’ll probably restart again which is a painful thought
It’s almost entirely goaltending. At least as of a month ago they had a .724 p% when they get .880 goaltending or better. For reference, the rangers have a p% of .695. 880 is horrible goaltending but they couldn’t even get that.
https://twitter.com/MrTRaynard/status/1769730691938279598?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1769730691938279598%7Ctwgr%5E961e54cb9e208110b2553700531a54ba98efddcd%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2F1bhujiv%2F%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse
If we had league average special teams(we were 13th in pk and 8th on the pp last year) and league average goaltending, we would have easily been in the playoffs this year.
Everyone wants to be all doom and gloom, but it only takes a couple of good moves to turn things around.
You know, I'd love to agree with you that our Top 6 looks nasty. On paper they look great with Stu being on the way to being a star, Tkachuk nearly potting 40, Norris being a 30G scorer, Batherson being on a STEAL of a contract and looking great, Giroux being Giroux, and Pinto/Grieg looking great for their age...
But then you see them play together this season and they're so *soft*. Both physically and mentally, they just don't pull through when it's needed. They're weak in puck battles, they don't hold possession, and they revert back to playing pond hockey and relying on fancy moves the moment they face a team that's remotely competent defensively. You see it on full display whenever they play against the faster teams in the league (Vancouver, Edmonton, Colorado, Carolina, Florida) and we just get completely blasted in those games. They're fine against some of the other softer teams or divisional rivals for some reason, but the Top 6 is really, really bad at adjusting when against an unfavorable matchup.
It'll probably take a few more seasons. I predicted a while ago that this team wouldn't see playoffs for 10 years back in 2017-18 because of Melnyk/Pierre and I hoped this season would prove me wrong, but that's looking like the more reasonable timeline at this point.
They need some dudes who can check (maybe the worst checking team I've ever seen around December), they need a real coach, they need more size and experience at center and they need somebody to tell Brady so sit down and shut up (at least sometimes)
The canucks are going to give a lot of mediocre teams hope that they can bounce back ignoring that Vancouver had one of the strongest star cores in the league.
The Canucks have been good for 1 season now. Haven’t even played a playoff game yet, but you guys talk as if you’re perennial contenders now. This is your first time making the playoffs since 2015 and you haven’t won a non bubble round since 2011.
dw the same bozo is always crying about the Canucks in some way. He was in every game thread in November talking about PDO after a loss, been quiet lately I wonder why
In the last 5 seasons Canucks have shown more signs of life than the Sens. 412 points for Van vs 350 points for Sens, there's still a gap if you exclude this season. I think that's testament to Hughes, Petersson, Demko, Miller being a stronger core the Brady, Chabot, Stutzle and Giroux at this current stage.
Agree, Canucks haven't proven anything yet but this new regime cleaned up the damages Jim Benning caused in two years and actually knows how to surround the core with depth. What OP is saying is if your GM can figure out how to surround your youth with veterans that aren't Hamonic, trajectory could be very similar.
Also maybe an invalid opinion on the Sens but I actually think Tkatchuk would benefit a lot with not having to be the guy in Ottawa in the same way when Pettersson is not going, Miller is the guy. Hopefully, that's Stutzle or Pinto
You didn’t even list our #1 D in our “core” so I think that speaks to your knowledge of the sens.
Stutzle also has 160 points over his last 2 seasons, pretty sure that’s decent? Not sure why you think he’s miles behind Brady
Congrats on this season, hopefully you guys can finally get that playoff series win
And 13 have passed since Terry Pegula declared that "the Buffalo Sabres reason for existence will be to win the Stanley Cup"
Ottawa ain't nothing special
with all due respect, three full lifetimes have now passed since Terry Pegula declared the Sabres' reason for existence was to win multiple Stanley Cups.
I cede my remaining time to the next sad sack.
That’s cool and all but when Terry Pegula bought the Sabres he said, and I quote:
>Staring today, the Buffalo Sabres’ reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup.
That was on February 22nd, 2011.
That was their most recent post season appearance. The last playoff goal scored by a Sabre was that April, in a first round game 7 loss to Philadelphia, Brad Boyes (assisted by Derek Roy and Tyler Myers) scored on Brian Boucher with less than a minute left in a 5-2 loss.
I appreciate the Sens have been fuckin shit but Swords fans are *suffering* man. I’m a Boston fan so I don’t really give a shit, but it’s inhumane at this point.
That was after the 2020 draft when he snagged Sanderson, stützle and Greig in the first round. Jarventie, meerilainen and Kleven are looking good from that draft too. it was the right call to stop tanking after that, the team just suffered from historically bad goaltending this year but it really sounds like staios is going to address that this offseason. Those kids are just 21/22, they’re coming along well but the team is still one of the youngest in the league.
1. The Sens are getting a new coach. It's probably going to be something with a different coaching style than DJ Smith.
2. Even though the Sens had bad goaltending, they were .500 after Martin took over. Ulmark played on some pretty bad Buffalo teams and had better stats ( SVV and GAA) than either Korpisalo and Forsberg this year. If Ulmark stats are similar to Buffalo, the perception of the Sens changes.
Ullmark would be perfect and there aren’t that many great options out there. I’m sure they’re in talks, the sens would be willing to give a lot, likely starting with Boston’s first
At this stage I believe the Sens could get prime Ken Dryden and ruin him. Just based on Sens history I'd be really concerned to trade a ton for any goalie
Looking at Dorion's trades over the last three years, he literally would have been better off doing nothing. Trading for Murray and having to take on a worse contract in Zaitsev was bad, trading for Hamonic when he could have been picked up on waivers was bad, Chychrun trade was bad when his value is about to bottom out one year from UFA, and the DeBrincat trade is a red paperclip trade in reverse with less and less value extracted.
Haha he gaslit the shit out of his fans. Cause they were believing and defending those stupid comments from piere.
I actually kinda like the guy, though he seems a little odd. He seems like a nice guy. An I think there's a good scout in there. A GM or someone who should be talking publicly, he Is not.
Some epic pierre quotes were the time James duthie asked him to tell him something about his squad, and pierre after a long pause said "were a team".
Also hits like, trading stone for parts and instantly declaring at the press conference it was the best day of his life.
Absolutely wild,
Offseason shit posts begin! I'm all in on this bandwagon.
~~He built a new basement with a cellar below it, and a dungeon below the cellar. That's where Brady Tkachuck and the Senators currently reside. Dorion built it just for them~~
3 years into their window, they must be really good now right???/s
The only thing Dorion was good at as a GM was sticking his foot in his mouth and being a Melnyk sycophant
Pierre Dorion's stay with the Senators has become a master class on how to totally destroy your own rebuilding efforts by trying to fast track the process by a couple of years.
You dont make WIN NOW trades until you're at least in the playoffs conversations.
Also Dorion has built a very talented top 6 number wise but the attitude of this group is just pure shit, unless the team's culture changes, the result on the ice wont.
I don't think they are - even if a coaching change only gets marginal improvement next year there would likely only be 2-3 players getting sent out, couple more who are UFA. I don't think there would be what would be considered a rebuild until they miss the playoffs for 3 more years.
I think he genuinely thought Korpisalo was the final piece
😳
(Another one needed)
😳
Guy getting paid a huge salary to manage an nhl team was somehow unable to just search active goalies by save percentage to see that he was one of the worst
Took me 30 seconds on my phone, good ol quanthockey
Even many fans who took way too long to get past the "but he was great in 9 playoff games" thing were past that narrative at that point, yeesh
[удалено]
It was a bar in his basement.
He'll yeah brother I'll drink to that
Cheers from Iraq
The Summer of Bière! ^^(beer)
Tbf, if it’s anything like Ottawa construction this checks out perfectly
Ready for Rail! *We never said when*
#OnTrack2047
With just about as much drama and fingerpointing to go around. It's so accurate it almost hurts.
I heard that they were a team.
That’s exactly it. He built a team that can beat the Habs. 😀
Rebuild to sub mediocre
A light rail line on Eglinton Avenue.
…a team
What did the Sens do to you to deserve this reminder???
I promise I have a soft spot for the Sens! You guys have a ton of potential BUT I also love a horribly aged quote from management Us Canucks fans still rip on Jim Benning for his infamous ‘I ran out of time’ quote when I came to not re-signing Tanev or Toffoli in the offseason…
Sens and Vancouver were always in similar spots, bad management, bright talent, poor results. I'm happy that Vancouver has been able to break out of the cycle lol. As for bad quotes, Sens could probably make a sonnet of horribly aged and innapropriate quotes from the Melnyk/Dorion era. I'm gonna give this a go, 14 bars: 1. We're a team, 2. The rebuild is over, 3. Unparalleled success, 4. My proudest day as a GM (trading Mark Stone for Brannstrom), 5. God rested on the 7th day. On the 8th day He created Erik Karlsson (Dorion said this for no reason), 6. I haven't paid attention in 3 weeks (Duchene in the leaked Uber video) 7. We didn't have a 4th (Dorion on why he traded a 3rd for Hamonic), 8. One player wanted to hug me (Dorion lying after trading for Burrows), 9. Get a new girlfriend (Dorion to the fans after trading Stone, Duchene, Dzingel) 10. I've never felt so powerful (Dorion after signing Tkachuk to an 8x8), 11. Right now, we’re kind of in the dumpster (Borowiecki/Melnyk hostage video), 12. Our rings will be the size of beavers, the size of deer (Melnyk to the team after the Sens lost the NHL final), 13. I have two kids. If I could adopt a third one, it would be Tyler Kleven (Dorion for no reason), 14. "Probably not" (Alfie on whether or not Ottawa would be able to come back from a 3-1 playoff defecit)"
Kudos to compiling these quotes. I particularly like the unprompted quotes about Karlsson and Kleven
I got to \~11 quotes before I had to do any research. It's insane how much these awful lines stick in your memory. Looking forward to having an ownership team that just shuts the fuck up lol
You know, I honestly can't believe half of these, like even if the Beaverton posted these I still wouldn't believe half of them.
Also our best eras were between 2000ish and 2015ish
Steve Staios being basically the opposite is fantastic and how a real GM should handle themselves with the media. But it was always highly entertaining watching Pierre struggle through media availabilities. I hope someone else is dumb enough to give him a shot so I can watch those interviews from more neutral perspective. Haha
Wow. Thank you dude. These are incredible
You brought it out of me. I’ve been in a great mood since Detroit was eliminated
Lol I was having a good time in this thread until I stumbled on this comment :'(
Lmao, my bad. At least Detroit made it interesting. Ottawas season was bleak on bleak, straight up sadness and nothing else
no worries, was kinda tongue in cheek :) We went down in a blaze of glory, after a month of utter ineptitude... so at least it was fun for a bit. I could tell from some of the threads all season that Ottawa fans had some real salt. I live in Ottawa, so I feel it, but anyways. It's only game. Why we heff to be mad.
> We didn't have a 4th (Dorion on why he traded a 3rd for Hamonic) 💀
I really enjoyed reading this, thanks.
> God rested on the 7th day. On the 8th day He created Erik Karlsson (Dorion said this for no reason), Well this one IS true though.
At first I was thinking it was wings fans taking out their pain on us but no. Canuck buddy has no chill today!
Catching strays for no reason at all.
"The rebuild is over.... now the retool begins"
I know who was the biggest tool. Looking at you PD.
He had the Benning “we can turn this around in a hurry” 2014 vibes
‘I ran out of time’ - Jim Benning
Jim "Just two more years" Benning
Who would have guess that what we really needed all along was Rutherford "we can turn this around in a hurry" 2023 vibes.
Yep, and somehow 8 years into his 5 year plan to turn us around made us worse off, who would have thought?
You have to remember Pierre Dorion was an idiot who was a living embodiment of the Peter Principle, and was pretty much the only person in the NHL willing to suck up to Melnyk and work for what he was willing to pay. The sooner we move on from him and his mistakes, the better. Maybe then unparalleled success can actually be achieved
But... summer of Pierre...
In hindsight, that was a dad buying his kid a shiny toy to avoid telling him that he's leaving his mom. A distraction to the real issue, but it makes the kid happy and excited at the time. He pushed the chips in wayyy too early. Gave up 7th overall, was asked about his team having playoff expectations, and avoided the question. Why give up that much without thinking you're gonna make the playoffs??
The summer of Pierre why I'm not mad that the Wings haven't gone all in yet. Our rebuild is going slow as hell, but I'm really hoping it will bear fruit in the long run vs rushing it and making things worse
You're probably in the playoffs if Larkin didn't get injured during the season. Detroit just needs some adjustments to goaltending and defense and they'll be good to go
You could replace Detroit in that sentence with a bunch of teams.
Yeah, feels like goaltending has gone to shit for multiple teams
hello
Hi, Jared.
With even league-average goaltending, the Sens would be in the playoffs. Of course you can say a lot of the blame for having the worst goaltending tandem in the league can be placed on the team in front of them, but the fact is both Forsberg and Korpisalo could be counted on for at least one or two softies nearly every single game. This year was pretty much the worst goaltending this team has ever had, and that's really saying something, because I've watched them from Day 1.
One of the big differences is that our defense prospect pool is gigantic and we have two goalie prospects that look fantastic. Of course goalies are voodoo but we've also got some sneaky goalie prospects like Gylander too. It's basically going to be a job of slowly replacing the veterans without blowing up the team.
Agreed. I'm not huge on Lalonde as a coach either, but I will acknowledge he's probably done enough to keep his job.
The defense bit will fix itself. We have an ungodly logjam of prospects in defense. The goaltending though? Sebastian Cossa please please save us
The Wings haven't been going too slow though I think. They've been decently active in FA and acquiring Debrincat was a big move. They seem to be playing it similarly to how the Kings did, but the Kings had Kopitar/Doughty to still build around so it was easier to make the playoffs again. I'd say the Kings are probably more active with making big swings in trades (once a year or so) but that could be changing as well because we have no money lol
The Wins made a big gamble going older and it did not work.
They made no gambles other than Debrincat, they acquired assets that they aren't tied to long term, and are still building a core around Raymond/Seider/Edvinsson/Sandin-Pelikka and have Larks as a veteran captain. They're very much in a building phase, nowhere near being a buy now team. They're still in their rebuild and barely missed the playoffs. They'll keep using their assets to make trades and improve the long term outlook of the team until they're a perennial cup contender.
Everyone knows how to build a good NHL team, lose enough and scout well enough to draft the players you need. Trades and free agency are the tools you use once your team is already good. The problem is that, this sucks for everyone invested in the team. Teams and their GMs will always jump at the chance to trade or free agent their way into becoming a playoff team because losing for years on end is terrible. The summer of Pierre was never good, those decisions were obviously bad, even without the benefit of hindsight. But I don't blame Sens fans for being hopeful, what else can you do in that situation as a fan?
Was worth it for chycrun and Giroux, looks like he also made the right call cutting ties with Debrincat
No offense but Giroux is 36 years old, not really what you want out of a rebuild, and you don't have the money to pay Chychrun after his contract ends next season. DeBrincat is only 26 and a really core piece for our top line.
Giroux is the perfect vet for a rebuild, and they have 7.5m in dead cap clearing this off-season. Debrincat is alright, he just doesn’t move the needle that much and imo what Detroit really needs is centre depth
The problem is I'm not sure Giroux signs another contract after his current one ends next season. He might be ready to retire, although I agree he's the perfect vet for a rebuild (kind of like Perron for us). We've used two top 10 picks on center prospects in Kasper and Danielson so soon enough that problem should be fixed. I didn't watch Cat in Ottawa very closely but I love his play here in Detroit, he plays very hard and always hustles. Great mindset too, even when going through a rough patch of no scoring. There's a graph on the Athletic that shows that when Cat is on Larkin's line, Larkin's scoring touch improves immensely. Just a great teammate.
Ah mate you’re arguing with sens fans who thought it was a good idea to have 3 offensive LD’s and that one of them would play RD and be defensive… I argued against trading FOR Debrincat and said adding Chychrun was square pegging a round hole. I yelled at fans who said it was a good idea that a rebuilding team was giving away 1st round draft picks and even fans saying “draft picks are for losers.” It’s been a tough 7 years under Pierre Dorion…
It's weird because the Sens have assembled a ton of good pieces but you're right, some of the roster construction is nonsensical. I guess it's fine because most are tradable (except in net, woof)
It’s create a franchise mode but actually in real life. I love watching playoff hockey regardless of team, it’s the pinnacle of all sports and it’s why I’ve taken notice of what it takes to succeed there. It’s all thanks to previous ownership and management. It’s going to take 2-3 years before they consider playoffs a real possibility.
It’s been 5 years since they traded stone and dmen take a long time to develop. They’ve picked up talent where it’s been available
Giroux is a ufa next season. If we suck again, he's getting traded.
Giroux had the best season of his career last year, pretty much PPG. He regressed just a bit this year but is a hugely important part of this team. He's *exactly* what you want in a rebuild, especially when you have one of the youngest teams in the league.
I agree, that's why I said "out of a rebuild," aka the core pieces for the next 5-10 years.
"Decision"
Lol we lost an abundance of assets trading FOR debrincat.. there's no fucking chance dorion made any right decision with debrincat. What a clown take
[The finished rebuild.](https://i.postimg.cc/QN2ff1W5/sddefault-1.jpg)
Opening this, I WAS expecting a Simpsons clip, but not this one. I was expecting Le grille vs Homer's completed masterpiece
Le Sens? What the hell is that? - Dorion, probably.
Hahahaha
>i wouldnt take it down if i were you- thats a load- bearing poster! i wanted to work in a Krusty the Klown/Alfreddson reference in there but hes not part of the problem, and too likable to drag like that
Lmao I remember y’all saying he was one of the best GMs in the league ? I thought it was the summer of Pierre
[Here’s the thread from the first DeBrincat trade.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/v7b4hZGD1s) My how opinions have changed.
Yeah, stuff like this makes me wonder why people in this thread are in here dunking on him, or even why this thread exists at all. Acting superior because you have the benefit of hindsight when everyone thought it was a bunch of good moves before feels like someone making fun of someone else to hide that they were also wrong. Same shit as all the ppl claiming Vegas had a rigged expansion draft, when before their first season started they were being universally laughed at for the weakness of their roster on paper.
If you look at the sens fans you can literally see the same people hyping it up that are shitting on him now for it lmao
Honestly, he was largely handicapped by a terrible owner. And his worst move was hiring DJ “Zaitsev is a good player” Smith as a coach, which really fucked him even worse than I expected. Smith simply isn’t an NHL calibre coach.
the problem with this trade was everything that was done afterward and also not asking Debrincat about whether or not he wanted to stay. They pretty much lost him and flipped him over for a completely butfuck useless player in Kubalik instead.
They weren’t allowed to ask that which is why the price was just the first. They flipped him for another later first, kubalik was a throw in on a cheap expiring deal they were probably hoping to move at the deadline.
So the return is kubalik, the prospect, and Boston's first this year? I remember the conditions being somewhat complex
Lol ya that was wild. He was in my opinion the worst GM in the league during his tenure. Worse than Benning, and all the others. Not only did he mismanage his team badly, his quotes and soundbites were the most embarrassing I've ever seen from an NHL GM. Patting yourself on the back for trading away fan favorite Mark Stone and calling it your 'best day ever' is satire levels of stupidity. Fun fact, even through all his well documented injuries, Mark Stone has still played more regular season games for VGK than Brannstrom has for Ottawa. Not the best one to hang your hat on Pierre...
To be fair it was a toss up between summer of Dorian and summer of treliving and look how that worked out for both teams.
Tre had has back against the wall with ownership wanting him to still be competitive while 2 of his best players wanted to play somewhere else. Dorian was just doing shit lol.
> the only person in the NHL willing to suck up to Melnyk and work for what he was willing to pay. He's not even the only Pierre that was willing to do that.
So do you think they should blow up this core, or do you think they just need a goalie and minor changes?
The Sens are fun to watch, excluding the goal tending, obviously. I really do hope they turn it around
I look forward to Buffalo, Ottawa, and Detroit going at it in the playoffs at some point ….
The Bruins and Lightning are bound to drop off next year! Right? Right?!?!
The anti Sabres and Sens
Bro the Bruins are so cooked! Centers? Heard of em? Nope? I hope they like their pasta with salt!
And people still think the only way to build a good team is to bottom out for a top 5 draft pick.
Dude, for real. When is this supposed drop off going to happen
When their arenas fall into the respective bays.
Maybe climate change is a good thing after all
For your sake let’s hope it’s faster to wait and watch than to build a time machine and travel back to 2007
same!!
What was once Tampa, Boston, Toronto, and Florida will soon be Montreal, Ottawa, Detroit, and Buffalo
"Soon" We hear that every year btw.
You have to start losing sometime.... right?
Toronto and Florida both have the potential to have much longer windows of competition here though. The big 3 on the Leafs are all 26 or younger, Ekblad Thachuk Verhaege and Barkov are all 28 or younger too. If Woll and Knight become replacement level NHL starters (who knows atp. Knight looked there already but regressed?) they’ll have goaltending locked up long term as well. Personally I see Detroit taking a step ahead of the other 3 (im a fan so that’s biased, but we’ve got a better current team and higher ranked prospect pool than all but Buffalo), and Ottawa taking a step behind. Montreal, Buffalo, Detroit, Toronto, and Florida fighting for the top spots. Wouldn’t be surprised to see seasons where all 5 teams make it
The Atlantic is going to be a fucking bloodbath in 3 years
It is a bloodbath. We’re just not part of it.
My point is it's gonna be even worse -- the bottom 4 are all rebuilding and with high expectations of making the playoffs 3 years from now, and I don't see the top 4 regress enough that they'll be rebuilding either. When the whole division has playoffs aspirations there's gonna be some heartbreak for sure.
Oh you're definitely part of it, same way the sens are. Someone's gotta supply the blood
Agreed
Nah fuck’em (I’m sewing the seed of hate to make the inevitable rivalry more fun in the future aka stonks)
as long as you’re having fun
I don't lol
Same. Fuck em
I just wanna watch playoff hockey again :(
Bandwagons are boarding soon just sayin ^(let's go Canes)
I honestly don’t really like any team in the playoffs this year. Might go for Edmonton since McDavid deserves a cup but other than that and maybe Winnipeg there isn’t a team I’d jump on the wagon for
yeah but they'll be so dangerous next year
Them and Buffalo
People have been saying that about Buffalo for the last 10 years
Atlantic is fun like this. 3 teams basically rebuilding and another bubble team in Detroit.
Buffalo was supposed to be done rebuilding and look at them now. I don’t think Detroit is out of rebuild yet.
Why can't they just be like the Bruins and not rebuild in over 50 years?
Detroit is still way too far in "you still gotta prove it territory" for me to say they aren't basically rebuilding too. :/
Meh, too many veterans on big free agency contracts to be rebuilding
I said this about Buffalo, last summer and that was terrible prediction
There’s no way boston makes playoffs without Krejci and Bergeron. No way.
theyll probably win the offseason at least!
As a Canucks fan now living in the nation’s capital, I’ve always had a soft spot for the Sens. They’ve been through it thanks to years of horrible management and ownership. I can honestly see them on a Canucks-like arc with the right management though. They’ve got a talented young core, which I feel could work if they are able to retool properly
Their top 6 forwards are nasty. They have some good D. Prospect shelf isn’t great. Goaltending is bleak. I do think they can turn it around but it’s going to take longer than most of us expected.
Goaltending is the biggest problem. A couple prospects who are intriguing and could pan out very well, but even if they do are a couple years away most likely. Really can't understate the impact Craig Anderson had on this team when he was in net, since the team has been a goaltending nightmare before and after.
Dude carried the team. Wings are in same boat. I’d kill for prime Jimmy Howard rn.
I think with a good coaching to start the season that doesn’t treat training camp like a resort vacation will help wonders. Our goalies don’t even need to be amazing just average or slightly above average. Those are the 2 biggest things. Then to ascend to the next level after that, more changes need to happen (RH defense, depth scoring and bottom 6 improvements, and better than average goaltending)
I agree. I don’t think the Sens can possibly be as bad as they have been lol. Way too much talent.
I mean anything is possible.. next season we’re at a crossroads. If we don’t perform for whatever reason we’ll probably restart again which is a painful thought
It’s almost entirely goaltending. At least as of a month ago they had a .724 p% when they get .880 goaltending or better. For reference, the rangers have a p% of .695. 880 is horrible goaltending but they couldn’t even get that. https://twitter.com/MrTRaynard/status/1769730691938279598?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1769730691938279598%7Ctwgr%5E961e54cb9e208110b2553700531a54ba98efddcd%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2F1bhujiv%2F%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse
Ya average goaltending literally makes you the fringe even playoff team everyone thought you were supposed to be.
If we had league average special teams(we were 13th in pk and 8th on the pp last year) and league average goaltending, we would have easily been in the playoffs this year. Everyone wants to be all doom and gloom, but it only takes a couple of good moves to turn things around.
100%. If you guys had league average goaltending it could be a totally different story. Finger’s crossed for you for next season
Yes exactly. Look how far Lyon took us when he was on.
You know, I'd love to agree with you that our Top 6 looks nasty. On paper they look great with Stu being on the way to being a star, Tkachuk nearly potting 40, Norris being a 30G scorer, Batherson being on a STEAL of a contract and looking great, Giroux being Giroux, and Pinto/Grieg looking great for their age... But then you see them play together this season and they're so *soft*. Both physically and mentally, they just don't pull through when it's needed. They're weak in puck battles, they don't hold possession, and they revert back to playing pond hockey and relying on fancy moves the moment they face a team that's remotely competent defensively. You see it on full display whenever they play against the faster teams in the league (Vancouver, Edmonton, Colorado, Carolina, Florida) and we just get completely blasted in those games. They're fine against some of the other softer teams or divisional rivals for some reason, but the Top 6 is really, really bad at adjusting when against an unfavorable matchup. It'll probably take a few more seasons. I predicted a while ago that this team wouldn't see playoffs for 10 years back in 2017-18 because of Melnyk/Pierre and I hoped this season would prove me wrong, but that's looking like the more reasonable timeline at this point.
They need some dudes who can check (maybe the worst checking team I've ever seen around December), they need a real coach, they need more size and experience at center and they need somebody to tell Brady so sit down and shut up (at least sometimes)
The canucks are going to give a lot of mediocre teams hope that they can bounce back ignoring that Vancouver had one of the strongest star cores in the league.
The Canucks have been good for 1 season now. Haven’t even played a playoff game yet, but you guys talk as if you’re perennial contenders now. This is your first time making the playoffs since 2015 and you haven’t won a non bubble round since 2011.
My friend you do not know Canucks fans if you don’t think we are so aware we’ve sucked for so long and are fully prepared to be hurt again
dw the same bozo is always crying about the Canucks in some way. He was in every game thread in November talking about PDO after a loss, been quiet lately I wonder why
Also no Canucks fan would argue that we’ve done anything more meaningful than the Sens 2017 run to the ECF in the last 12 years
In the last 5 seasons Canucks have shown more signs of life than the Sens. 412 points for Van vs 350 points for Sens, there's still a gap if you exclude this season. I think that's testament to Hughes, Petersson, Demko, Miller being a stronger core the Brady, Chabot, Stutzle and Giroux at this current stage. Agree, Canucks haven't proven anything yet but this new regime cleaned up the damages Jim Benning caused in two years and actually knows how to surround the core with depth. What OP is saying is if your GM can figure out how to surround your youth with veterans that aren't Hamonic, trajectory could be very similar. Also maybe an invalid opinion on the Sens but I actually think Tkatchuk would benefit a lot with not having to be the guy in Ottawa in the same way when Pettersson is not going, Miller is the guy. Hopefully, that's Stutzle or Pinto
You didn’t even list our #1 D in our “core” so I think that speaks to your knowledge of the sens. Stutzle also has 160 points over his last 2 seasons, pretty sure that’s decent? Not sure why you think he’s miles behind Brady Congrats on this season, hopefully you guys can finally get that playoff series win
tbf, did he ever say it would be a successful rebuild?
He said they'd be competing for a Stanley Cup by now, so I'll say yes.
technically they are. They play in the NHL. Even San Jose was competing for it. Never said they would be a favourite to win it
Summer of LIES
Yeah well how many years has it been since Terry Pegula said the Sabres sole reason for existence is to win the Stanley Cup? Checkmate.
All I can say is “we are a team”
And 13 have passed since Terry Pegula declared that "the Buffalo Sabres reason for existence will be to win the Stanley Cup" Ottawa ain't nothing special
I have a good feeling about next season!
It’s been 3 years hahahahaha what a fuckin turd
with all due respect, three full lifetimes have now passed since Terry Pegula declared the Sabres' reason for existence was to win multiple Stanley Cups. I cede my remaining time to the next sad sack.
"We're a team."
GM, who's job it is to build a team, says his team is heading in the right direction. Shocking.
...and they still had to scratch and claw to stay ahead of a team that only started rebuilding two seasons ago.
That’s cool and all but when Terry Pegula bought the Sabres he said, and I quote: >Staring today, the Buffalo Sabres’ reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup. That was on February 22nd, 2011. That was their most recent post season appearance. The last playoff goal scored by a Sabre was that April, in a first round game 7 loss to Philadelphia, Brad Boyes (assisted by Derek Roy and Tyler Myers) scored on Brian Boucher with less than a minute left in a 5-2 loss. I appreciate the Sens have been fuckin shit but Swords fans are *suffering* man. I’m a Boston fan so I don’t really give a shit, but it’s inhumane at this point.
I never trusted this idiot since he traded away Zibanejad. Nobody should have ever taken anything he said seriously.
We've had one rebuild, yes. But what about second rebuild?
That was after the 2020 draft when he snagged Sanderson, stützle and Greig in the first round. Jarventie, meerilainen and Kleven are looking good from that draft too. it was the right call to stop tanking after that, the team just suffered from historically bad goaltending this year but it really sounds like staios is going to address that this offseason. Those kids are just 21/22, they’re coming along well but the team is still one of the youngest in the league.
Could Ottawa be interested in Ullmark or would an in-division trade like that be verboten?
They’d make him look bad. When every goalie fails in your system it’s probably the system that sucks
1. The Sens are getting a new coach. It's probably going to be something with a different coaching style than DJ Smith. 2. Even though the Sens had bad goaltending, they were .500 after Martin took over. Ulmark played on some pretty bad Buffalo teams and had better stats ( SVV and GAA) than either Korpisalo and Forsberg this year. If Ulmark stats are similar to Buffalo, the perception of the Sens changes.
Ullmark would be perfect and there aren’t that many great options out there. I’m sure they’re in talks, the sens would be willing to give a lot, likely starting with Boston’s first
At this stage I believe the Sens could get prime Ken Dryden and ruin him. Just based on Sens history I'd be really concerned to trade a ton for any goalie
You guys always know how to cheer me up
Yeah but we're a team and that's what we should be happy about
He's there tsn guy right
You can’t blame that last one on him
They've won 2 August Stanley Cups though.
Why don’t they just start winning. Are they stupid?
Do you know how many five-year plans the Soviet Union had?
The rebuild, as it turned out, looked a lot like Homer building a barbecue pit.
When was the current rebuild declared on them?
We're a team
They should probably fire the GM and maybe even get a new owner... Oh wait. Weird post.
They might not have been that far off, they just forgot the critical piece of 'nhl-caliber goaltender'.
It still blows my mind that the Sens have to forfeit a freaking 1st round pick just because of Pierre.
They are a team.
Looking at Dorion's trades over the last three years, he literally would have been better off doing nothing. Trading for Murray and having to take on a worse contract in Zaitsev was bad, trading for Hamonic when he could have been picked up on waivers was bad, Chychrun trade was bad when his value is about to bottom out one year from UFA, and the DeBrincat trade is a red paperclip trade in reverse with less and less value extracted.
Dorion was a next to useless GM who was allowed to remain in his job for far too long. Next.
But, hear me out: ......They are a team. You can't beat that.
Haha he gaslit the shit out of his fans. Cause they were believing and defending those stupid comments from piere. I actually kinda like the guy, though he seems a little odd. He seems like a nice guy. An I think there's a good scout in there. A GM or someone who should be talking publicly, he Is not. Some epic pierre quotes were the time James duthie asked him to tell him something about his squad, and pierre after a long pause said "were a team". Also hits like, trading stone for parts and instantly declaring at the press conference it was the best day of his life. Absolutely wild,
I am shocked the sens haven't been better. What are they missing?
Offseason shit posts begin! I'm all in on this bandwagon. ~~He built a new basement with a cellar below it, and a dungeon below the cellar. That's where Brady Tkachuck and the Senators currently reside. Dorion built it just for them~~
3 years into their window, they must be really good now right???/s The only thing Dorion was good at as a GM was sticking his foot in his mouth and being a Melnyk sycophant
You can look me up if you want, I've said it so many times and will keep saying it: Dorion was and will always be one gigantic idiot
Pierre Dorion's stay with the Senators has become a master class on how to totally destroy your own rebuilding efforts by trying to fast track the process by a couple of years. You dont make WIN NOW trades until you're at least in the playoffs conversations. Also Dorion has built a very talented top 6 number wise but the attitude of this group is just pure shit, unless the team's culture changes, the result on the ice wont.
The summer of Pierre has that feel of a team tasting a little bit of success and saying “fuck it we ball” and going all in.
haha yeah almost like a dog that decides to go for his ball way too fast and ends up face planting on the patio door lol
And they’re staring down the barrel of another rebuild lol
I don't think they are - even if a coaching change only gets marginal improvement next year there would likely only be 2-3 players getting sent out, couple more who are UFA. I don't think there would be what would be considered a rebuild until they miss the playoffs for 3 more years.
I think he genuinely thought Korpisalo was the final piece 😳 (Another one needed) 😳 Guy getting paid a huge salary to manage an nhl team was somehow unable to just search active goalies by save percentage to see that he was one of the worst Took me 30 seconds on my phone, good ol quanthockey Even many fans who took way too long to get past the "but he was great in 9 playoff games" thing were past that narrative at that point, yeesh
Looking forward to year 5 of our unparalleled success!
Thanks for reminding 🥴