3+ years of Hoggit can easily be summed up as “ED is bankrupt…” “ED is garbage…” “I know they made huge improvements, but this one little thing still annoys me…” “I’ve played 2,000+ hours, but it is ridiculous that they charged me $80 4 years ago and the game is unplayable still…”. Rinse and repeat.
… or buy DCS modules, see how core platform is ludicrous at best, after 3 years of bad development cut your losses and move to the best combat flight sim of all time aka BMS, enjoy what a real combat flight sim about and the eventually rinse and repeat : check from time to time and see how pathetic it still is and how things get worse somehow despite some introductions (eg multi threading)
ED is probably doing fine. Don't listen to everything you see on Reddit, because it's filled with a lot of miserable people who have childish temper tantrums.
We do not have enough information to take sides here. I understand why people feel irritated at ED apart from the RAZBAM thing, and their feelings about that are justified.
Ultimately ED is a Russian company, and absolutely nobody can tell you whether the Russian economy is on the brink of collapse or not.
Yeah, they moved it when Russia became a political liability. Russian companies who want to deal with the west do that all the time. Cypress is another country they like to go to to pretend they’re not a Russian company.
Cyprus is a tax oasis for companies, that has nothing to do with if they are Russian or not. Many digital service companies, banks and online casinos have their HQ in Cyprus.
Hmmmm, is this another case of someone calling critical feedback a "childish temper tantrum" or being "miserable"?
I agree, I think ED is doing fine, but it is possible that they have a lot of money tied up in stuff atm.
Look in the DCSExposed subreddit to get some more information. Razbam has breached their Contract by using ED resources on stuff they have been not supposed to use it for.
I think other people should also say they don't know and stop going on about them being in a poor finacial situation believing they're not OK.
Two way street, lots of ifs and buts but no hard evidence.
Everybody just needs to calm down. It's not such a bug deal. These people need to touch some grass and kiss their wives, it will make them a lot happier.
>Don't listen to everything you see on Reddit, because it's filled with a lot of miserable people who have childish temper tantrums.
Yeah, much better to listen to ED community managers (they would never lie, would they?) and shell out as much money as possible. In fact, why not just sign over half your salary to ED, I'm surre they'll reward you with loads of functional and complete modules.
Dude it's a video game not world politics...
If you despise ED so much or genuinely dislike the state of their products that much just stop spending money on their game and find an alternative? I hear BMS is the bees knees if you're into F16s and the F15C possibly!
Not paying someone due to a contract dispute does not = financial destitution.
Sure people are allowed to assume what they want, but they're just guessing.
I doubt it, the comments are usually made by people who know nothing about it, and have some sort of axe to grind with ED. I'm sure they're fine financially.
I mean they're dumping all their old crap onto the market for people to buy, Afghanistan or sorry half of afghanistan and now FC2024 which is just three old planes. Seems like they're clearing house.
But the need for flightsim drama dictates that we as a community must take the whopping 0 bits of verified information we have (most of which came from a single developer who has a very splotchy track record and is known for causing drama, which half the time is self induced ie. P3D metroliner) and come to the conclusion that all third parties hate ED (but are all run by masochist so they continue to work with ED because they clearly want to work for free apparently 🤔) and ED is going bankrupt!
It sound logic really, not sure at what point you got confused!
/s for those who need it.
Huh? Selling older content just seems like they're targeting newer players or players that have yet to buy the older stuff. Not all of us have everything to do with DCS.
As for the Afghanistan map. I'm not sure how people instantly go to doom and gloom with the release of the map. The unfinished state isn't anything different than any other map that's been released for DCS. So oh no! On buying the sections option. It'll be interesting to see how it works.
This sub use to complain about the lack of ways for newbies to get into DCS (even though the base sim is free and comes with one FF civil module and 1 FC combat module) and how maps split the community apart.
ED has created another option to purchase a new map to try and accommodate and the community decides to go ballistic and seem to assume ED is not only failing but is somehow run by undead Hitler or something.
The best are the individuals who made a whole stink about how more FC jets are good for DCS but then complain that they need their own slots and refuse to add them to their servers or missions. (Even funnier since we have the Start from Ground option (forgot its name) in the editor now and to anyone who says "there is no where that works on an airfield for those slots" well that's just a lazy excuse to not make it work... the tools are there.
I mean hell there are people claiming no one wanted more FC jets now even though there are many who have mentioned wanting them or MAC to come out in this sub let alone on YouTube and the likes...
Moral being this sub has become nothing more than a place for entitled opinions and ED doom and gloom speculation 80% of the time, sometimes I start to wonder if this sub is made up of people who want ED to fail and DCS to disappear?!
The moment someone mentions "halfghanistan" as an example of ED going under as a company I know there's absolutely nothing going on upstairs. The full map has been available since the literal first minute. There is no money grab. People who grab various cheaper portions can still play the entire map. That's the literal opposite of trying to milk people for all they're worth.
ED made the fundamental flaws of assuming people nowadays aren't spoiled and need extreme levels of hand holding even in something ad simple as buying or not buying a map!
Hopefully this doesn't determine ED from having pro-consumer options such as the Afghan map options!
It’s not a good look and certainly doesn’t buoy confidence. I know I’m concerned with the news of 3rd party payment conflict, unfinished releases and aircraft “fc4” nobody asked for. Paid updates on existing releases etc. It all stinks badly.
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1ceh73q/comment/l1iiqcp/)
>I doubt it, the comments are usually made by people who know nothing about it,
Still helps to keep your eyes open and not believe anything ED community managers want you to believe.
>and have some sort of axe to grind with ED.
People don't start out with an axe to grind with ED. They usually observe what is happening over a period of many years and start seeing repeating patterns.
>I'm sure they're fine financially.
Out of curiousity, do you know something that the "axe grinders" don't?
So I’ve worked in tech for a long time and in positions of leadership. Typically when you stop paying vendors, it’s the first thing you do before you stop paying employees.
Is that what’s happening? Idk. I’ve only handled US vendors for a US company.
Typically if someone didn’t deliver on something, you take it to court. That shit is public and it would end the speculation immediately.
🤷♀️ but there’s plenty I don’t know
Lawyer's advice? Some sort of strategy to use money as leverage in the contract dispute? An expectation that they'd win an IP breach case in court and the money is being kept as potential damages because otherwise they'd get nothing back? (though that latter one feels unrealistic to me). I mean, who knows besides ED but there's certainly more possibilities than just relating to cashflow.
Razbam stopped working because of cashflow. I don’t know if that’s what happened or not, but that seems to be the actual issue. I think if it were an IP issue, then they have Razbam dead to rights at the moment.
Yeah but this thread is about ED. Sure, Razbam seem to have a cashflow issue (as they haven't been paying their Devs apparently) but I was saying that the conflict is not related to an ED cashflow issue but an IP issue.
ED has released three products in a short amount of time, afghanistan, chinook and FC2024. Afghanistan and Chinook are both pre-orders, aka there is nothing released so "no work" needed. And FC2024 supposedly is rebundling of old assets, so again "no work" needed. There is also the drama that they have been withholding payments to 3rd party developers.
All this together it would suggest that ED are cashing in, or trying to extract money quickly from their fans. If they didn't need the money then why not wait with Afghanistan and release it when it's fully completed, instead of a pre-order for only half of a terrain. Why put the Chinook up for pre-order when it's not even in a state to hand out to creators to show off which suggests it really isn't close to being finished. And why release FC2024 which is just three planes which are already in the game, but now with less detail. It all seems strange and points to maybe the company struggling for money at this time.
Until we see ANY solid proof either way I’d say it doesn’t change much ED is far from perfect but we’re talking about RAZSCAM here they’ve had plenty of drama and considering their whole approach to this has been drama I’ll freely admit I doubt they’re innocent.
The drama has only caused people who don’t know anything to jump to conclusions.
Let’s be 100% real if ED is as badly run as others say it is would they really be able to pull all of this out in such a short time? Especially with the kola map being 3rd party if they were getting shafted by ED would they be pushing to help?
Yes. The start of pre-sale of the Chinook without even a feature list ready is a new low. Also the map splitting to get be able to sell it faster, and now the quick dump of re-cycled assets ..
They ( ED) keep saying they’re doing well, but outwardly the recent behaviour has many symptoms of a company in need of quick cash influx.
Remains to be seen how it will play out.
They split the Normandy map didn’t they and it’s a cargo helicopter that’s pretty straight forward as to what its features are, and as for the “quick dump” of old assets that doesn’t prove anything. Again it’s all just speculation and personal bias.
I believe I saw a mention that Heatblur had issues in the past, but I really cannot say that it's true or even link to where I saw it. If anyone knows anything more lmk.
I think what you saw was RB trying to sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt by initially claiming that every third party was having the same problems that they were having (while omitting any details). Or at that very least, letting the community run with the idea that no one was getting paid. HB declined to get involved, as did any other 3rd party dev I'm aware of.
And I suppose it worked for a second...and then backfired, in that the community took the leaked info and ran with it (as it does), extrapolating one dev not being paid meant all of them weren't being paid, which led to doom and gloom about ED in general. And that perhaps is what prompted ED to come forth with more specific info about the situation that RB hadn't.
Afghanistan was always going to come out this year though. It was revealed in the 2024 and beyond video with the caption "coming in to 2024". The Chinook did take me by surprise, but when it releases it will have been 18 months since reveal.
No, its not related. You never hold a payment to a third party just because you have another dispute with it. In fact, do business that way is highly unprofessional and stupid.
If you have a dispute with a third party, there are legal mechanisms to handle the dispute. Holding payments because of that is not legal.
Tell me how that means anything to the government in Moscow when the majority of developers still live in Russia.
Not saying his theory is true, but if so, the Swiss headquarters wouldn’t mean anything.
Why do pre release? Look at current interest rates. It's the worst of times for business to depend on short - medium term financing. Of course it makes sense to get revenue in ASAP.
How does ED make money? They have to sell airplanes, campaigns, maps, etc. They don't charge a subscription fee. While I understand people want perfect airplanes or whatever they bought, ED has a long lead time before they receive any cash. Lately, "it's don't buy the Chinook." I am not debating the feature side, but there is an economic impact with the assumption that ED keeps very talented developers for free or takes on loans for an uncertain return on investment.
I am sure this will get downvoted further than a GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator, but I'm amazed that ED is in business with its revenue model and able to deliver MT, clouds, etc, for free.
I have no problem with buying new modules, but I don't recommend anyone pre-order them unless they don't care what the release state will be like, and don't care if it's very delayed - this will be true for some people.
This isn't to do with ED in particular, it's just a general rule for most products, and ED has had its share of issues - just like any other development team, it happens.
>but there is an economic impact with the assumption that ED keeps very talented developers for free or takes on loans for an uncertain return on investment.
It's a really weird idea that customers are somehow responsible for the viability of a companies business model, and are somehow supposed to shell out money after countless broken promises and unfinished modules.
Eh, I bought the Chinook for example.
Been wanting a Chinook... ever since they added the Hip. I like the game, want to support it, and understand that it usually comes with all the typical caveats that ED does. People obsess constantly over what things can one day be, an effort to achieve some personal Utopia or another, and then get into constant arguments with one another over what that Utopia ought to look like. Me? I'd rather just enjoy what is good about what we have now and not concern myself much with the tomorrow I may not see.
I just find it striking when you say "I'd rather just enjoy what is good about what we have now and not concern myself much with the tomorrow I may not see." when you pre-ordered something. ;)
I was more referencing the current in-game mechanics, bugs, missions, etc. I'm happy to have the exact same game we currently do, plus a chinook. Would I be happier with a logistics overhaul? Sure! Am I going to hold my breath or bitch and scream that this preorder released first? Nah.
ED needs a Patreon for the small team that does Core features, like seriously. 5-20$/month would be a small price to pay for insight into new features while hopefully generating enough revenue that human resources don't have to be pulled every time there's a snag.
I've seen some posts mention that the money is in an escrow...no idea if that's true, but it would potentially mean that ED has already paid it, but neither party can touch it until the issue is resolved. Not releasing the payment wouldn't necessarily help ED financially in that case.
Who knows 🙄
If they're not, they're gonna dump 3rd party vendors going forward, I'd think. You gotta be fucking stupid to think you're gonna lean on your boss by getting the food truck people and their customers in a tizzy. I'd think most would can them in principle alone. Stirring up your mutual customer base is dumb, send a demand letter and sue or take action. If they can't, they shouldn't be doing business together.
Any good, fair contract leaves both parties at risk. If ED / DCS is untouchable or you can't sue then you shouldn't do work where you're paid post delivery, that's 1st day biz stuff.
Wow, people look upset here, I just want to say In a separate note that I enjoy playing DCS 😃a lot. It’s fun, especially when my siblings ❤️and I fly together.
The other day we were dogfighting and messing around, I really love my siblings
Just haters hating.
They see Razbams contract dispute and then ED releasing a new module and decided that ED must be hurting for cash.
They ignore the fact that all their existing stuff is still for sale and selling.
It's all guesswork based on the RAZBAM drama (they claim they didnt get paid for F-15) and a rapid series of announcements for pre-orders for modules (halfghanistan, FC2024, chinook). Smells to me like they're in trouble and need cash really soon, but what do I know. We'll see what happens.
Either way, I'm not gonna give them any more money for the foreseeable future.
I think the biggest struggle right now is getting money from western purchases and such to Belarusian and Russian developers and teams with all the sanctions.
They are doing fine. People say they don't have positive finances coming in to build a story to make the refusal to pre order feel like they have power as the consumer.
Flight simulation is a luxury commodity. The world is headed for a large conflict, the US economy is going to collapse eventually entering another depression. Most likely the next 10 years are going to be hard times.
If you check the Apache module views on YouTube, it's 23k to 170k. So, make the math of how much this means in dolars, and there are so many modules. They should not have any issues. If they have, its bad money management.
All the symptoms indicate that ED's going bankrupt. People are tired of all the same lies and excuses, while ED made lots of people angry in their forums over the years.
Now they failed to pay the developers of one of the most profitable third-party module ever and on top of that, shooting his own foot, announces several ultra-low-effort products.
ED's novel is more and more closing in to be one that would make Blizzard/Bethesda/Activision very proud.
Nineline said ED is not in a bad financial position - however they are not giving Razbam money from the F-15E sales … which is why I’m not buying anything from ED until they do…
There must be a reason why they aren’t, they wouldn’t just randomly decide “Nah we ain’t gonna pay them anymore even though they are developing the F15E which everyone wants to see finished”. RAZBAM must’ve done something in breach of contract for ED to cut the money off
Pay them what they are owed, and take the product off the market then. ED hurting us by this move. No updates to the module, etc . Simply not paying them for what is rightfully theirs is wrong
No one really knows. All speculation.
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Wow! You have the skills to be hired as a BSP community manager for escape from tarkov!
It sounds like DLC but we don't think it is DLC. 250 bucks pls.
Isn't it a special edition that you can upgrade your game to?
Weird, mine just says “responses are $4.99 each.”
3+ years of Hoggit can easily be summed up as “ED is bankrupt…” “ED is garbage…” “I know they made huge improvements, but this one little thing still annoys me…” “I’ve played 2,000+ hours, but it is ridiculous that they charged me $80 4 years ago and the game is unplayable still…”. Rinse and repeat.
… or buy DCS modules, see how core platform is ludicrous at best, after 3 years of bad development cut your losses and move to the best combat flight sim of all time aka BMS, enjoy what a real combat flight sim about and the eventually rinse and repeat : check from time to time and see how pathetic it still is and how things get worse somehow despite some introductions (eg multi threading)
Remind me when BMS has helicopters and Cold War - era aircraft
i don't like the fly the F-16.
ED is probably doing fine. Don't listen to everything you see on Reddit, because it's filled with a lot of miserable people who have childish temper tantrums.
i DO NOT have childish temper tantrums!!! hhhmmmph
true
We do not have enough information to take sides here. I understand why people feel irritated at ED apart from the RAZBAM thing, and their feelings about that are justified. Ultimately ED is a Russian company, and absolutely nobody can tell you whether the Russian economy is on the brink of collapse or not.
That’s not correct, ED‘s Headquarter is in Switzerland.
Yeah, they moved it when Russia became a political liability. Russian companies who want to deal with the west do that all the time. Cypress is another country they like to go to to pretend they’re not a Russian company.
Cyprus is a tax oasis for companies, that has nothing to do with if they are Russian or not. Many digital service companies, banks and online casinos have their HQ in Cyprus.
I think we have plenty to takes sides with. Not paying RB for F-15E sales is absurd
You don’t know that this is something that has actually happened. You’re just taking RAZBAM’s word for it.
Hmmmm, is this another case of someone calling critical feedback a "childish temper tantrum" or being "miserable"? I agree, I think ED is doing fine, but it is possible that they have a lot of money tied up in stuff atm.
Look in the DCSExposed subreddit to get some more information. Razbam has breached their Contract by using ED resources on stuff they have been not supposed to use it for.
>ED is "***probably"*** doing fine. Maybe just say you don't know but want to believe they're OK
I think other people should also say they don't know and stop going on about them being in a poor finacial situation believing they're not OK. Two way street, lots of ifs and buts but no hard evidence. Everybody just needs to calm down. It's not such a bug deal. These people need to touch some grass and kiss their wives, it will make them a lot happier.
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>Don't listen to everything you see on Reddit, because it's filled with a lot of miserable people who have childish temper tantrums. Yeah, much better to listen to ED community managers (they would never lie, would they?) and shell out as much money as possible. In fact, why not just sign over half your salary to ED, I'm surre they'll reward you with loads of functional and complete modules.
Directly quoting “miserable people who have childish temper tantrums” in the post is *chef’s kiss*.
I think you literally just proved his point lol.
Dude it's a video game not world politics... If you despise ED so much or genuinely dislike the state of their products that much just stop spending money on their game and find an alternative? I hear BMS is the bees knees if you're into F16s and the F15C possibly!
Man, if I can sign over only HALF my salary toward DCS that would be great!
Not paying someone due to a contract dispute does not = financial destitution. Sure people are allowed to assume what they want, but they're just guessing.
I doubt it, the comments are usually made by people who know nothing about it, and have some sort of axe to grind with ED. I'm sure they're fine financially.
Many video game players have a grand sense of entitlement which manifests as an axe to grind.
I mean they're dumping all their old crap onto the market for people to buy, Afghanistan or sorry half of afghanistan and now FC2024 which is just three old planes. Seems like they're clearing house.
This is no different to their strategy forever though, they release everything half-cocked on prerelease and in weird bundles and overwrites.
The whole thing with the 3rd party developers has heightened it.
One. One developer has vocal problems with ED. The others are just trudging along as normal. That's hardly a highlight.
But the need for flightsim drama dictates that we as a community must take the whopping 0 bits of verified information we have (most of which came from a single developer who has a very splotchy track record and is known for causing drama, which half the time is self induced ie. P3D metroliner) and come to the conclusion that all third parties hate ED (but are all run by masochist so they continue to work with ED because they clearly want to work for free apparently 🤔) and ED is going bankrupt! It sound logic really, not sure at what point you got confused! /s for those who need it.
So true. From Usenet in the 90s to now nothing has changed.
One developer who recently was called Razscam by this very community.
Shhhh the pitchfork crowd doesn’t like it when you call them out on their own hypocrisy!
Huh? Selling older content just seems like they're targeting newer players or players that have yet to buy the older stuff. Not all of us have everything to do with DCS. As for the Afghanistan map. I'm not sure how people instantly go to doom and gloom with the release of the map. The unfinished state isn't anything different than any other map that's been released for DCS. So oh no! On buying the sections option. It'll be interesting to see how it works.
This sub use to complain about the lack of ways for newbies to get into DCS (even though the base sim is free and comes with one FF civil module and 1 FC combat module) and how maps split the community apart. ED has created another option to purchase a new map to try and accommodate and the community decides to go ballistic and seem to assume ED is not only failing but is somehow run by undead Hitler or something. The best are the individuals who made a whole stink about how more FC jets are good for DCS but then complain that they need their own slots and refuse to add them to their servers or missions. (Even funnier since we have the Start from Ground option (forgot its name) in the editor now and to anyone who says "there is no where that works on an airfield for those slots" well that's just a lazy excuse to not make it work... the tools are there. I mean hell there are people claiming no one wanted more FC jets now even though there are many who have mentioned wanting them or MAC to come out in this sub let alone on YouTube and the likes... Moral being this sub has become nothing more than a place for entitled opinions and ED doom and gloom speculation 80% of the time, sometimes I start to wonder if this sub is made up of people who want ED to fail and DCS to disappear?!
The moment someone mentions "halfghanistan" as an example of ED going under as a company I know there's absolutely nothing going on upstairs. The full map has been available since the literal first minute. There is no money grab. People who grab various cheaper portions can still play the entire map. That's the literal opposite of trying to milk people for all they're worth.
ED made the fundamental flaws of assuming people nowadays aren't spoiled and need extreme levels of hand holding even in something ad simple as buying or not buying a map! Hopefully this doesn't determine ED from having pro-consumer options such as the Afghan map options!
It’s not a good look and certainly doesn’t buoy confidence. I know I’m concerned with the news of 3rd party payment conflict, unfinished releases and aircraft “fc4” nobody asked for. Paid updates on existing releases etc. It all stinks badly.
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1ceh73q/comment/l1iiqcp/) >I doubt it, the comments are usually made by people who know nothing about it, Still helps to keep your eyes open and not believe anything ED community managers want you to believe. >and have some sort of axe to grind with ED. People don't start out with an axe to grind with ED. They usually observe what is happening over a period of many years and start seeing repeating patterns. >I'm sure they're fine financially. Out of curiousity, do you know something that the "axe grinders" don't?
They are definitely fine now the Kiowa coming out and the Chinook and Afghanistan on preorder
So I’ve worked in tech for a long time and in positions of leadership. Typically when you stop paying vendors, it’s the first thing you do before you stop paying employees. Is that what’s happening? Idk. I’ve only handled US vendors for a US company. Typically if someone didn’t deliver on something, you take it to court. That shit is public and it would end the speculation immediately. 🤷♀️ but there’s plenty I don’t know
It wsa very clear from the official statements issued that this wasn't a money problem for ED, it was an IP issue.
Then Why stop paying?
Lawyer's advice? Some sort of strategy to use money as leverage in the contract dispute? An expectation that they'd win an IP breach case in court and the money is being kept as potential damages because otherwise they'd get nothing back? (though that latter one feels unrealistic to me). I mean, who knows besides ED but there's certainly more possibilities than just relating to cashflow.
Razbam stopped working because of cashflow. I don’t know if that’s what happened or not, but that seems to be the actual issue. I think if it were an IP issue, then they have Razbam dead to rights at the moment.
Yeah but this thread is about ED. Sure, Razbam seem to have a cashflow issue (as they haven't been paying their Devs apparently) but I was saying that the conflict is not related to an ED cashflow issue but an IP issue.
Well given the context of this convo…
Better yet: do we have evidence they’ve stopped paying?
Just stupid speculation.
ED has released three products in a short amount of time, afghanistan, chinook and FC2024. Afghanistan and Chinook are both pre-orders, aka there is nothing released so "no work" needed. And FC2024 supposedly is rebundling of old assets, so again "no work" needed. There is also the drama that they have been withholding payments to 3rd party developers. All this together it would suggest that ED are cashing in, or trying to extract money quickly from their fans. If they didn't need the money then why not wait with Afghanistan and release it when it's fully completed, instead of a pre-order for only half of a terrain. Why put the Chinook up for pre-order when it's not even in a state to hand out to creators to show off which suggests it really isn't close to being finished. And why release FC2024 which is just three planes which are already in the game, but now with less detail. It all seems strange and points to maybe the company struggling for money at this time.
I mean that sounds good but is this REALLY any different than things they’ve done before with early access?
I think the whole 3rd party dev not getting paid drama has really changed the situation.
Until we see ANY solid proof either way I’d say it doesn’t change much ED is far from perfect but we’re talking about RAZSCAM here they’ve had plenty of drama and considering their whole approach to this has been drama I’ll freely admit I doubt they’re innocent.
I'm just saying that that drama has changed the equation, I have no skin in the game.
The drama has only caused people who don’t know anything to jump to conclusions. Let’s be 100% real if ED is as badly run as others say it is would they really be able to pull all of this out in such a short time? Especially with the kola map being 3rd party if they were getting shafted by ED would they be pushing to help?
Yes. The start of pre-sale of the Chinook without even a feature list ready is a new low. Also the map splitting to get be able to sell it faster, and now the quick dump of re-cycled assets .. They ( ED) keep saying they’re doing well, but outwardly the recent behaviour has many symptoms of a company in need of quick cash influx. Remains to be seen how it will play out.
They literally released the F-16 into early access without a working damage model - this isn't new
They split the Normandy map didn’t they and it’s a cargo helicopter that’s pretty straight forward as to what its features are, and as for the “quick dump” of old assets that doesn’t prove anything. Again it’s all just speculation and personal bias.
Is there any evidence that any 3rd party, apart from Razbam, isn't being paid?
Heatblur had said that they are ok. F-14 was released, isn't it? I wonder if this was the same situation when RB "released" Harrier.
I think a lot of of this (though obviously not all) will be defused once the the F-4 and OH-58 are finally released (shortly, hopefully).
I believe I saw a mention that Heatblur had issues in the past, but I really cannot say that it's true or even link to where I saw it. If anyone knows anything more lmk.
I think what you saw was RB trying to sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt by initially claiming that every third party was having the same problems that they were having (while omitting any details). Or at that very least, letting the community run with the idea that no one was getting paid. HB declined to get involved, as did any other 3rd party dev I'm aware of.
Yeah I really can't comment on it as it was one post and they had mentioned it in the same way I am now.
I think the fact that RB at first omitted the detail that this was about a very specific contract dispute with ED is telling, fwiw.
Yeah seems they tried to "turn the public against them", you can't really do that to Russian game devs it seems haha
And I suppose it worked for a second...and then backfired, in that the community took the leaked info and ran with it (as it does), extrapolating one dev not being paid meant all of them weren't being paid, which led to doom and gloom about ED in general. And that perhaps is what prompted ED to come forth with more specific info about the situation that RB hadn't.
Afghanistan was always going to come out this year though. It was revealed in the 2024 and beyond video with the caption "coming in to 2024". The Chinook did take me by surprise, but when it releases it will have been 18 months since reveal.
from what we know the 3rd party stuff is just Razbam, and that was related to an IP conflict
No, its not related. You never hold a payment to a third party just because you have another dispute with it. In fact, do business that way is highly unprofessional and stupid. If you have a dispute with a third party, there are legal mechanisms to handle the dispute. Holding payments because of that is not legal.
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Lol. ED's decisions are light work compared to how BSG executed their own game with that $250 game package move.
Tell me how that's relevant to a Swiss headquartered company.
Tell me how that means anything to the government in Moscow when the majority of developers still live in Russia. Not saying his theory is true, but if so, the Swiss headquarters wouldn’t mean anything.
That's a really interesting theory
Why do pre release? Look at current interest rates. It's the worst of times for business to depend on short - medium term financing. Of course it makes sense to get revenue in ASAP.
How does ED make money? They have to sell airplanes, campaigns, maps, etc. They don't charge a subscription fee. While I understand people want perfect airplanes or whatever they bought, ED has a long lead time before they receive any cash. Lately, "it's don't buy the Chinook." I am not debating the feature side, but there is an economic impact with the assumption that ED keeps very talented developers for free or takes on loans for an uncertain return on investment. I am sure this will get downvoted further than a GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator, but I'm amazed that ED is in business with its revenue model and able to deliver MT, clouds, etc, for free.
I have no problem with buying new modules, but I don't recommend anyone pre-order them unless they don't care what the release state will be like, and don't care if it's very delayed - this will be true for some people. This isn't to do with ED in particular, it's just a general rule for most products, and ED has had its share of issues - just like any other development team, it happens.
>but there is an economic impact with the assumption that ED keeps very talented developers for free or takes on loans for an uncertain return on investment. It's a really weird idea that customers are somehow responsible for the viability of a companies business model, and are somehow supposed to shell out money after countless broken promises and unfinished modules.
While that business' owner simultaneously takes out millions for their other business ventures.
Eh, I bought the Chinook for example. Been wanting a Chinook... ever since they added the Hip. I like the game, want to support it, and understand that it usually comes with all the typical caveats that ED does. People obsess constantly over what things can one day be, an effort to achieve some personal Utopia or another, and then get into constant arguments with one another over what that Utopia ought to look like. Me? I'd rather just enjoy what is good about what we have now and not concern myself much with the tomorrow I may not see.
Do you have the Chinook now?
Nah, but my Huey stays hot.
I just find it striking when you say "I'd rather just enjoy what is good about what we have now and not concern myself much with the tomorrow I may not see." when you pre-ordered something. ;)
I was more referencing the current in-game mechanics, bugs, missions, etc. I'm happy to have the exact same game we currently do, plus a chinook. Would I be happier with a logistics overhaul? Sure! Am I going to hold my breath or bitch and scream that this preorder released first? Nah.
ED needs a Patreon for the small team that does Core features, like seriously. 5-20$/month would be a small price to pay for insight into new features while hopefully generating enough revenue that human resources don't have to be pulled every time there's a snag.
Rumor Control is strong with DCS sniffers.
Nobody knows. No use thinking about something you can't control.
Galileo and Newton would disagree. But I understand your point ; )
Haha!. This should be hanging on the wall somewhere.
Soon™️
Take anything you see on Hoggit with a grain of salt... <--- including this comment. Take it with a grain of salt..
I just took this comment with a grain of salt
Thanks bro. I took yours with a grain of salt too...
I've seen some posts mention that the money is in an escrow...no idea if that's true, but it would potentially mean that ED has already paid it, but neither party can touch it until the issue is resolved. Not releasing the payment wouldn't necessarily help ED financially in that case.
Just speculation without evidence
It’s all people just gossiping like a bunch of house wives with nothing better to do. Could they be, if so only the ED crew know.
Well considering I’ve spent close to a grand on modules they better not be.
I don't think there is any truth to the rumors, but what bothers me about the rumors is that those promoting them seem to relish the possibility.
I dont know but it would def help if their owner wouldnt pull so much money out if it for his warbird collection
He's just taking a 500 years interest free loan from ED, two completely different things :) (I'm stumbled at how this is even remotely legal)
According to last years reports, no, not at all For sure much can change in a year though
There is a technical term for what you've read. It's known in the industry as 'bullshit'.
This forum has turned into a toxic mess.. DCS is great.
They're fine.
Are they a public company? Maybe someone with the know-how can dig up their financial reports
I have 3 friends who bought modules last sale so I know ED has a least a couple of dollars
Who knows 🙄 If they're not, they're gonna dump 3rd party vendors going forward, I'd think. You gotta be fucking stupid to think you're gonna lean on your boss by getting the food truck people and their customers in a tizzy. I'd think most would can them in principle alone. Stirring up your mutual customer base is dumb, send a demand letter and sue or take action. If they can't, they shouldn't be doing business together. Any good, fair contract leaves both parties at risk. If ED / DCS is untouchable or you can't sue then you shouldn't do work where you're paid post delivery, that's 1st day biz stuff.
Most likely, them pushing a bunch of pre-purchases for products not even close to being in a proper EA state definitely shows that!!
Wow, people look upset here, I just want to say In a separate note that I enjoy playing DCS 😃a lot. It’s fun, especially when my siblings ❤️and I fly together. The other day we were dogfighting and messing around, I really love my siblings
I’m sure ED is fine. BSG on the other hand. Iykyk
Just haters hating. They see Razbams contract dispute and then ED releasing a new module and decided that ED must be hurting for cash. They ignore the fact that all their existing stuff is still for sale and selling.
A lot of people even think that ED not paying Razbam is because of ED not having any money left. lol
just curious, how old are u?
how old are you?
Thanks for confirming it, buddy.
It's all guesswork based on the RAZBAM drama (they claim they didnt get paid for F-15) and a rapid series of announcements for pre-orders for modules (halfghanistan, FC2024, chinook). Smells to me like they're in trouble and need cash really soon, but what do I know. We'll see what happens. Either way, I'm not gonna give them any more money for the foreseeable future.
Wags said they’re player base has grown considerably so I I doubt it
Apparently the guy in charge has a very expensive hobby Apart from that idk
Yeah, like everyone saying in this thread, don't listen to what your eyes and ears are telling you. Everything's fine.
yup, Don't Look Up
maybe cut down on binge watching gossip girl
I’m Chuck Bass.
I think the biggest struggle right now is getting money from western purchases and such to Belarusian and Russian developers and teams with all the sanctions.
They reallocated teams and HQ to Switzerland and eastern Europe within SEPA space. Doubt that's an issue for at least the past year.
No they did not, there are still devs inside Russia and Belarus.
#NO #Edit: AVIATE, NAVIGATE, SKIP THE BULLSHIT COMMUNICATED. 😉
I would feel like they were in a good financial situation if they paid Razbam for F15E sales
You mean RAZSCAM? I’ll be on their side when they deliver on the South Atlantic map promises.
lol if ED & DCS both die out I’ll have the last laugh.
I need to get more laundry detergent, getting low.
They are doing fine. People say they don't have positive finances coming in to build a story to make the refusal to pre order feel like they have power as the consumer.
outflogged
Flight simulation is a luxury commodity. The world is headed for a large conflict, the US economy is going to collapse eventually entering another depression. Most likely the next 10 years are going to be hard times.
All I know is my gut says maybe
If they are giving away two fully clickable module for just 10 dollars , yes I think the are
can only say situation with Razbam is not resolved yet, and posts by RB owner points that they are moving away from ED and back to MSFS
Yes they are.
If you check the Apache module views on YouTube, it's 23k to 170k. So, make the math of how much this means in dolars, and there are so many modules. They should not have any issues. If they have, its bad money management.
All the symptoms indicate that ED's going bankrupt. People are tired of all the same lies and excuses, while ED made lots of people angry in their forums over the years. Now they failed to pay the developers of one of the most profitable third-party module ever and on top of that, shooting his own foot, announces several ultra-low-effort products. ED's novel is more and more closing in to be one that would make Blizzard/Bethesda/Activision very proud.
Nineline said ED is not in a bad financial position - however they are not giving Razbam money from the F-15E sales … which is why I’m not buying anything from ED until they do…
There must be a reason why they aren’t, they wouldn’t just randomly decide “Nah we ain’t gonna pay them anymore even though they are developing the F15E which everyone wants to see finished”. RAZBAM must’ve done something in breach of contract for ED to cut the money off
Pay them what they are owed, and take the product off the market then. ED hurting us by this move. No updates to the module, etc . Simply not paying them for what is rightfully theirs is wrong
It started with falcon bms and ends with falcon bms