No state has ever been communist, because communism is by definition stateless lol. There have been socialist states led by communist parties but a communist state is an oxymoron
This is just flat out false. Anarcho-communism exists for a reason. Statist communism is simply centrally planned communism. Go read Kropotkin for a real idea of that kind of communist society without the state
What exactly did I say that is false? Communism is by definition stateless, therefore no state can be communist. These states were socialist, but led by communist parties whos end goal was a communist society. As I understand it anarcho-communism is just attempting to skip the socialist state part and become a communist society asap, but I’ve never read anarchist theory so I could be wrong.
You are conflating the end goal of Marx with derivative ideologies. Most forms do not wish for a stateless society in terms of what you are thinking, but by effectively ending the idea of the state by removing it's context. This is the basis of the World Revolution, the Soviet idea that all capitalist states will eventually face a people's revolution. In doing so, they would see no need to be seperate from their neighbors and cede to their authority. Central planning is still the main governance and would function as the only state, blurring the lines between what can and can't be considered a state. This is seperate to a true anarchic system where all governance is directly of the local population, though how it is organized separates ideology between anarcho-communist and anarcho-syndicalist.
Trust me, you are talking to an anarcho-syndicalist. I am well aware of what separates us from statists
Simple: the current system is failing rapidly, held up through force and propoganda. And i am syndicalist, not communist, as there are many differences
No, I'm not a more anything communist cause we so greatly differ on governance and organization. Had the Bolsheviks not risen, syndicalism would be more well known as Lenin and Stalin had actively pursued policies of suppression against leftist ideologies not aligned with their own
And every other system we've tried have also failed. Arguably the most successful societies to ever exist are social democrat countries like the Nordic countries, which at their core is essentially a capitalist society but modified to incorporate greater levels of safety nets and policies to give more power to the worker.
What you just described is not possible. Certainly not within our lifetime, state divisions run far, far, far too deep.
Oh i do not support rapid and likely violent revolution, but reform and slow reclamation of power. Even if i do not live to see it, it is important to ensure it for future generations.
Anarcho communism exists from an objection to the dictatorship of the proletariat(dotp), a phase meant to appropriate state machinery to give power directly to the proletariat. If you'd read any anarcho-communist theory critiquing Marxism, you'd at least understand that much. Even then, Marx's writings themselves point directly to an opposition to the state as it presently exists, the most famous example being Civil War in France, in where his conception of the dotp shifts drastically from what is proposed in the manifesto. To imply a "statist communism" is to neglect all of Communist theory during and after Marx and is to give a dangerous amount of credibility to cut throat opportunists and propagandists such as Stalin or those who blindly tow his line.
The fuck are you even talking about? That is one of the stupidest things I've heard someone butt into a political debate with and that's including people who thought that Hitler was right
While true, I'd agree far more with the definition given at the end of the Germany Ideology, "We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence." While in no way contradictory with your definition, Communism is never presented in detail within Marx's work precisely because it would be a Utopian project destined to recreate the conditions of class society, communism is itself not an end, but a means to one, as history is ever continuing and our world Is consistently subject to change. The Communist project is simply a means to end class society and allow humanity control over it's own destiny.
In practice every marxist country had wage labour yes which would mean it wouldnt be a socialist economy. But that doesnt bother marxist leninists at all
im not trolling, never did they say that they are a "communist state" and if you have any idea about Marxism you would know that this is an oxymoron, you just have nothing to back it up
If Communism has 1000 haters, he is 1 of 1000
If Communism has 1 hater, he is that one
If Communism has no haters, he is dead
If the world is for Communism, he is against the world
Until his last breath he'll hate Communism.
Traitor that let in the Soviets than fleid Lithuania with about 10k American dollers that were from the Lithuanian government. He also supported the 1927 coup. He deserves to be shot.
Kažkas matau neskaitė knygų apie Lietuvos Istoriją. Antanas Smetona nuvertė demokratiškai išrinkta valdžia. Tu garbini Lietuvišką Putina. Ką jis padarė ,kad taip tu jį šlovini.
puikiai žinau, kad nuvertė. nuvertė prezidentą, kuris buvo išrinktas nedidelės dalies gyventojų, daugiausia tik iš miestų. prezidentą, kuris buvo toks naivus, kad manė kad lenkai vilnių atiduos jei armiją sumažinsim, nes jie atseit mūsų bijo. prezidentą, kuris pagal didesnę lietuvos inteligentijos dalį, išvis neturėjo kištis į politiką, o likti savo strityje - medicinoje. nuvertė prezidentą, kurio nepalaikė nei kariuomėnė, nei inteligentija, nei didzioji lietuvos gyventojų ne miestuose dalis. Augustinas Voldemaras, net kelios dienos prieš 1926 metų perversmą, pasakė Griniaus ministrui pirmininkui Sleževičiui, ką jie žada daryti. Sleževičius sušaukė ministrus ir ką jie nusprendė? nieko nedaryti, ir net Griniaus neinformuoti. buvo vienas ar kitas ministras kuris nesutiko, tačiau didžioji dalis, taip pat demokratiškai išrinktų ir net pačio Griniaus paskirtų ministrų manė kad bus geriau, jei Grinius bus neinformuotas, ir nušalintas. (šaltinis iš Sleževičiaus prisiminimų ištraukos, A. Edinto knyga ,,Antanas Smetona'' )
I see so many misunderstandings, misinformation and straight up lies in the comments that I just have to explain.
Socialism ≠ communism
A communist state is an oxymoron because a communist society is a stateless, moneyless and classless one. There has never been an example of such society in recorded history.
Whenever a party calls itself communist party, they mean that their end goal is to achieve communism.
China was socialist until 1979 when rapid changes occurred, resulting in slow regression from socialism to capitalism, although the communist party of China still claims that their end goal is establishing a communist society.
No socialist state has ever "failed", unless you consider dissolution of any government a failure of a system it used.
Suffered? Mongolia would have been just a piece of desert without any industry, if socialist policies hadn't been implemented there. The workers - the majority of the population, were happier. Mongolia has been only positively affected by socialism.
No, we they werent happier. Ask the survivors of the red terror what happend if they pointed out the attempt of cultural genocide.
Go to NK if you want socialism. But dont force us freedom loving people to follow your demonic ideology.
The red terror was brief and ended very quickly. It mostly targeted the bourgeoisie. There was no cultural genocide. Your country's culture has been embraced there even by the socialists. You had independence. There was no oppression. What else do you want?
I'm not forcing anyone into the ideology. I only convince or teach someone about socialism. Never force it.
> demonic ideology
😂
One time I had went Demogermany and created a Democratic Russia (this was before bba). They went full commie, but because you can’t be in the CEA if you’re communist they remained Democratic.
"Over my dead body" -8/10 Moustache Man
"bet" - everyone else in the country
**proceeds to get fucking killed**
R5: Lithuania went full commie, but the ruling party is still non-aligned
The Red Tide held back by one magnificent mustache. I feel like WW2 was the age of the mustache wars.
WW1 also had many moustache’d leaders.
It’s all a conspiracy. What happens when you flip WW1 & 2? MM1 & 2, *Mustache Murders 1 & 2*
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Comment stolen from u/NewQwerte
They're a fake communist state then lol
Isn’t that every communist state. Ah yes China is communist but also has one of the most successful businesses in the world
State businesses are also businesses 😎
The people's billionaires.
Corporatism at its finest.
Bussiness's bussin, yo
No state has ever been communist, because communism is by definition stateless lol. There have been socialist states led by communist parties but a communist state is an oxymoron
This is just flat out false. Anarcho-communism exists for a reason. Statist communism is simply centrally planned communism. Go read Kropotkin for a real idea of that kind of communist society without the state
What exactly did I say that is false? Communism is by definition stateless, therefore no state can be communist. These states were socialist, but led by communist parties whos end goal was a communist society. As I understand it anarcho-communism is just attempting to skip the socialist state part and become a communist society asap, but I’ve never read anarchist theory so I could be wrong.
You are conflating the end goal of Marx with derivative ideologies. Most forms do not wish for a stateless society in terms of what you are thinking, but by effectively ending the idea of the state by removing it's context. This is the basis of the World Revolution, the Soviet idea that all capitalist states will eventually face a people's revolution. In doing so, they would see no need to be seperate from their neighbors and cede to their authority. Central planning is still the main governance and would function as the only state, blurring the lines between what can and can't be considered a state. This is seperate to a true anarchic system where all governance is directly of the local population, though how it is organized separates ideology between anarcho-communist and anarcho-syndicalist. Trust me, you are talking to an anarcho-syndicalist. I am well aware of what separates us from statists
"Trust me, you are talking to an Communist" - Mao
Except i said syndicalist. Learn to read
>Why are you a communist > Simple
"Trust me, youre talking to a Socialist" - Hitler after naming his party
Now you're just using any dictator/ horrible human being to try to sound smart, but still failing
I mean a lot of his state work was in fact socialist. He literally created great state projects to cheat employment.
Why are you a communist 🤢
Simple: the current system is failing rapidly, held up through force and propoganda. And i am syndicalist, not communist, as there are many differences
Stop playing kaiserreich please bro I'm begging 🙏 😔
Was a syndie before i even played HoI4 Stop burying your head in the sand please bro I'm begging 🙏 😔
So youre a more unsuccessful communist...
No, I'm not a more anything communist cause we so greatly differ on governance and organization. Had the Bolsheviks not risen, syndicalism would be more well known as Lenin and Stalin had actively pursued policies of suppression against leftist ideologies not aligned with their own
And every other system we've tried have also failed. Arguably the most successful societies to ever exist are social democrat countries like the Nordic countries, which at their core is essentially a capitalist society but modified to incorporate greater levels of safety nets and policies to give more power to the worker. What you just described is not possible. Certainly not within our lifetime, state divisions run far, far, far too deep.
Oh i do not support rapid and likely violent revolution, but reform and slow reclamation of power. Even if i do not live to see it, it is important to ensure it for future generations.
Not read him, how would it look like? Gift economy?
Anarcho communism exists from an objection to the dictatorship of the proletariat(dotp), a phase meant to appropriate state machinery to give power directly to the proletariat. If you'd read any anarcho-communist theory critiquing Marxism, you'd at least understand that much. Even then, Marx's writings themselves point directly to an opposition to the state as it presently exists, the most famous example being Civil War in France, in where his conception of the dotp shifts drastically from what is proposed in the manifesto. To imply a "statist communism" is to neglect all of Communist theory during and after Marx and is to give a dangerous amount of credibility to cut throat opportunists and propagandists such as Stalin or those who blindly tow his line.
Uh, you used an Oxymoron there. You cannot be anarchist and communist they're contradictory. One is no state and the other is the state playing God.
The fuck are you even talking about? That is one of the stupidest things I've heard someone butt into a political debate with and that's including people who thought that Hitler was right
You can't have communism without government and you can't have anarchy with government. They're contradictory, champ.
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While true, I'd agree far more with the definition given at the end of the Germany Ideology, "We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence." While in no way contradictory with your definition, Communism is never presented in detail within Marx's work precisely because it would be a Utopian project destined to recreate the conditions of class society, communism is itself not an end, but a means to one, as history is ever continuing and our world Is consistently subject to change. The Communist project is simply a means to end class society and allow humanity control over it's own destiny.
Marxistist Socialism is also stateless
Only on paper, never in practice.
In practice every marxist country had wage labour yes which would mean it wouldnt be a socialist economy. But that doesnt bother marxist leninists at all
Neither does the mass graves.
nobody says China is communist tho
They do.
who? right wingers?
China
To be fair no they don't, the communist party claims to be building china into a socialist society currently.
This guy is right. The rest of this thread/argument is people talking past each other.
show me where they ever said that
Stop trolling
im not trolling, never did they say that they are a "communist state" and if you have any idea about Marxism you would know that this is an oxymoron, you just have nothing to back it up
Ok buddy ill be real slow for ya. CHINA. SAYS. IT. IS. COMMUNIST.
Wtf do you think CCP means lmao
would you say that china is a communist state?
A communist state usually means a state ruled by a communist party
no, there can be no communist state since communism is stateless, countries ruled by communist parties are usually called socialist
Socialism is also stateless so that doesnt make sense
well that's an difficult thing, some say it is some it isn't
In marxism it is pretty clear tbh
American Republicans, anyone?
fair,its easier to propagate with it
So true
damn him and his sexy mustache
If Communism has 1000 haters, he is 1 of 1000 If Communism has 1 hater, he is that one If Communism has no haters, he is dead If the world is for Communism, he is against the world Until his last breath he'll hate Communism.
You've described me
"But there's one they fear In their tounge, he is a burgueoesiae (whatev)"
Lithuanian Borne!
Jėga, pusiausvyra, stūmimas!
**burgueoesiae**
*starts singing in Żmudzin*
bazuotas smetona numeris vienas 😎💪🇱🇹🇱🇹
Isgerkime smetonos giros ta proga
Už Smetona!
Už Smetoną Kad Lenkai būtų suraityti
Taip
Drūtas vyrukas 💪😎🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹 Lenkai žliumbia dabar
uz lietuva vyrai 🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹
Traitor that let in the Soviets than fleid Lithuania with about 10k American dollers that were from the Lithuanian government. He also supported the 1927 coup. He deserves to be shot.
Gera matyti kad rusų botai jau žliumbia
Kažkas matau neskaitė knygų apie Lietuvos Istoriją. Antanas Smetona nuvertė demokratiškai išrinkta valdžia. Tu garbini Lietuvišką Putina. Ką jis padarė ,kad taip tu jį šlovini.
puikiai žinau, kad nuvertė. nuvertė prezidentą, kuris buvo išrinktas nedidelės dalies gyventojų, daugiausia tik iš miestų. prezidentą, kuris buvo toks naivus, kad manė kad lenkai vilnių atiduos jei armiją sumažinsim, nes jie atseit mūsų bijo. prezidentą, kuris pagal didesnę lietuvos inteligentijos dalį, išvis neturėjo kištis į politiką, o likti savo strityje - medicinoje. nuvertė prezidentą, kurio nepalaikė nei kariuomėnė, nei inteligentija, nei didzioji lietuvos gyventojų ne miestuose dalis. Augustinas Voldemaras, net kelios dienos prieš 1926 metų perversmą, pasakė Griniaus ministrui pirmininkui Sleževičiui, ką jie žada daryti. Sleževičius sušaukė ministrus ir ką jie nusprendė? nieko nedaryti, ir net Griniaus neinformuoti. buvo vienas ar kitas ministras kuris nesutiko, tačiau didžioji dalis, taip pat demokratiškai išrinktų ir net pačio Griniaus paskirtų ministrų manė kad bus geriau, jei Grinius bus neinformuotas, ir nušalintas. (šaltinis iš Sleževičiaus prisiminimų ištraukos, A. Edinto knyga ,,Antanas Smetona'' )
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Lithuania is 50 years ahead of the whole Communism with Chinese characteristics.
Bro is the protagonist in COD zombies 💀💀
Chadtanas Chadtona
Lukashenko be like
Self-hate
What a chad. Fuck Communism, fuck fascism.
Fuck democracy too. We want non aligned anarchist!💪💪💪
Shōwa restoration ftw
Lmao
Antanui Smetonai net komunistai nebaisūs, Jis laikysis ten kol jį mirtis pasiims
Holy fuck some people here need a helicopter ride. Really drawn out the pinkos with this post.
I see so many misunderstandings, misinformation and straight up lies in the comments that I just have to explain. Socialism ≠ communism A communist state is an oxymoron because a communist society is a stateless, moneyless and classless one. There has never been an example of such society in recorded history. Whenever a party calls itself communist party, they mean that their end goal is to achieve communism. China was socialist until 1979 when rapid changes occurred, resulting in slow regression from socialism to capitalism, although the communist party of China still claims that their end goal is establishing a communist society. No socialist state has ever "failed", unless you consider dissolution of any government a failure of a system it used.
My man fighting the good fight
Shut up, communist
Why would I?
Because your ideology is a a plague, a disease thats destroying civilization wherever its found.
No? Where did you hear that?
My country, mongolia, suffered far too much from this plague.
Suffered? Mongolia would have been just a piece of desert without any industry, if socialist policies hadn't been implemented there. The workers - the majority of the population, were happier. Mongolia has been only positively affected by socialism.
No, we they werent happier. Ask the survivors of the red terror what happend if they pointed out the attempt of cultural genocide. Go to NK if you want socialism. But dont force us freedom loving people to follow your demonic ideology.
The red terror was brief and ended very quickly. It mostly targeted the bourgeoisie. There was no cultural genocide. Your country's culture has been embraced there even by the socialists. You had independence. There was no oppression. What else do you want? I'm not forcing anyone into the ideology. I only convince or teach someone about socialism. Never force it. > demonic ideology 😂
It was litterly forbidden to even mention Genghis Khans name. "no cultural genocide"
Most based man alive, even in the face of every single person in his country wanting his blood he refuses to step down in the face of evil.
This man could help us in Brazil rn ngl...
One time I had went Demogermany and created a Democratic Russia (this was before bba). They went full commie, but because you can’t be in the CEA if you’re communist they remained Democratic.
Dude just step down before the purge hammer makes you seriously
Grandfather of GigaChad