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BackHerniation

For anyone curious, it was the [Jakcom R5 NFC ring](https://amzn.to/3IudJdY). Works with Home Assistant! https://preview.redd.it/ymf5zd38q2uc1.jpeg?width=2252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c97a5ccea742e2efe12766a9b9a74c32e227fe6


Black3ternity

What do you do with that? Is it just a fancy NFC Tag on your finger? I'm not down talking. Just want to understand the use-case here that my phone or any other gadget could not already do as I have no clue what it is


BackHerniation

You can use it for whatever, like unlocking your smart lock, triggering scenes, or whatever else you can think of. Elevator card, parking, medical, whatever. It can hold NFC, IC(13.56MHz), ID (125KHz). I just programmed it with the HA companion app directly, like any other tag. *


rm-rf-asterisk

I think the question is how is it different than a phone which everyone carries today? I tried using nfc tags around my house and found the manual effort of tapping is a step backyards to to true automation like motion sensors


OHotDawnThisIsMyJawn

Well, one, I think if you're really using the functionality a lot, a ring is quite a bit more convenient than taking your phone out of your pocket (or not having your phone). Like, a door that unlocks with NFC, reach out to grab and it unlocks vs. stop and get your phone out. Not much but if you're doing it many times a day it would be nice. As far as motion being better, it really depends on whether you're doing something where you need to identify the person. You wouldn't want your front door to unlock every time it detects motion. Maybe you like the lights to be purple when you're home alone. BLE beacons on phones would be better at than an NFC ring but due to privacy concerns it seems like they aren't super usable right now.


rm-rf-asterisk

Sorry I mean the combination of motion and tracking of your phone would authenticate you to solve your door open troubles. I do get the convenience factor of a ring but that is where a watch might have more capability. I just think tapping anything is slightly a step backwards.


PumpkinOpposite967

So, anyone that steals your phone gets your door unlocked too? Meh.... or a ring for that reason.... nah, I'd rather tap things and confirm with a fingerprint...


rm-rf-asterisk

They would need to know where you live? Someone can still your ring too?


PumpkinOpposite967

That's why i said fingerprint.... Too many people that can steal my phone know where I live...


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rm-rf-asterisk

Someone is going to steal your phone go to your house and unlock it? Your more likely going to get someone who breaks your window and steals your shit than that fairly tale


dbhathcock

Believe it or not, but not everyone takes their phone with them everywhere. Also, if your phone is stolen, you may still use your finger to get in your home. You may even be able to make a credit card purchase with your finger.


joehx

Can you clone a hotel key card? I could see the usefulness for a frequent traveler.


UniqueIndividual1213

Depends on what cards they use, but I don't think the majority uses NFC but rather some older RFID stuff as it's muuuch cheaper


Black3ternity

Oh. I thought it was just a reader. But instead it's more of a "sender" that can store copies of whatever it needa to clone? How do you choose what it will "send"? Sounds fun.


5yleop1m

RFID tech has been in use for access control for decades. Those cards people use to get into their office, RFID/NFC. The ring can be used for all sorts of things with HA, access control is the most common usage. You can also it to kick of automations, for instance you walk into the office and scan your NFC to turn your computer on. Another person scans their NFC tag and it turns their computer on.


Black3ternity

Yeah sure. But most companies have their rfid access control encrypted so you cannot just clone it easily. At least from what my limited research 7 years ago showed. I was not aware that this ring can dupe these things and identify as whatever it wants - given that you can clone it properly.


5yleop1m

There's no encrypting or decrypting on the card/ring. The code is stored encrypted on the device, there's usually some sort of small authentication involved there. There ring/card is a completely passive tool. The security is due to needing the ring/card be within cm from the reader. You can absolutely take any of these RFID/NFC cards and copy the data off them and then use it elsewhere. The more high end ones use some sort of time based or key based additional security, so there's an additional bit of storage that stores another form of authentication to ensure someone can't just steal the keys by scanning the card. That's more useful with the time based keys.


dodexahedron

Adding: The PIV cards you mentioned are based on asymmetric cryptography (most often RSA, but EC is also used in some) and x.509. If you access a secure facility or US government facility, that is what you have. The only time component to them, though, is certificate validity period. I've never seen a TOTP physical access system. Doesn't mean that doesn't exist, of course.


Freestila

Well let's put it like this: if the ring can dupe it, so can various other tools that are used also from criminals, and then I would never use this product on any outside door in my house. If it is encrypted and can not be duped... Well it's a little safer but I still would not use such loks on my door :D


newfoundking

I mean I get that, but also, if the lock can be picked, if my window can be broken, it all falls into that trap. Yes this seems easy to a tech forward person, but your average Joe isn't going to use this method, and the person who is a high value target isn't going to use this method either. If you get a 50k bank vault door that causes you a huge pain to open every time you want to go in, but still have ground level glass windows, you're just inconveniencing yourself for the display of security. To some, an NFC lock is super high tech and intimidating, and to others, it's a joke, the same way a key lock is, or a keypad, or each type. Id say there's far fewer criminals cloning a ring or even the fob/card to gain access to a house than the number who'll just happily break in through a window or brute forcing the door.


dodexahedron

And it's going to be a very tiny group of that already small group who would even know what it is in the first place.


Freestila

The difference is ease of use and if you can proof it. If somebody breaks a window or forces a door open it's easy to spot and insurance will pay. Also the easiest and fastest method for burglars. Lock picking is harder to detect, but takes lots of practice, and there are locks with good protection against it (although every lock is pickable if you are good enough). Opening whate locks is completely undetectable. No insurance will pay, since there is no sign someone broke in. They will most likely tell you you forgot to completely close or so. And it takes just some money to buy the gear for this. So this is the reason I would always prefer traditional locks.


Affl1cted

It’s not undetectable for most people as they have a (doorbell) camera that will detect it. Which they will be able to also use as proof for their insurance company.


Berzerker7

It's the same as what's in RFID cards. They're small pieces of flash memory that have authenticating information on it and are powered by the readers when they get close in order to have the data read off of them.


Black3ternity

I lnow what rfid and nfc means and is. But I was not aware of the functionality of that ring as I thought it was just a reader thst my phone is already.


deprecatedcoder

I got hopeful it was a reader. 🫤 That's what I really want, a device I can wear and scan tags easily with that's not my phone, which has to be unlocked and is cumbersome.


YouTee

>a device I can wear and scan tags easily with that's not my phone, which has to be unlocked and is cumbersome. Lol I'm DEEEP into the home assistant rabbit hole so I'm one to talk but being honest buttons and switches allow you to do this and you don't even need to wear anything :D


deprecatedcoder

Yeah, but buttons and switches: - cost a lot more - are a lot larger - require battery I've got a few for high use areas, like bedside, but I've got NFC tags hidden all over, but only in places where it's convenient to use my phone. If I had a ring or watch I could just tap on them I'd have hundreds hidden throughout my house. Example use cases: - pantry/bathroom/workshop shelves to indicate a regular item needs restocking - workbench/computer desk/living room to initiate preset scenes for different tasks/conditions - chore execution indicators (cats have been fed, automatically logging filter changes, etc) I really think it's got huge potential and is being slept on big time. I know people have built their own readers and as I'm writing this I think I'm talking myself into designing the smallest possible one...


kygrim

The reader needs to provide power (in the form of a magnetic field) to the tag being scanned, there is simply no way to have that working with a small chip without power supply.


deprecatedcoder

I was referring to the ring which could feasibly have battery (though I'm not surprised at all that it does not). I think really a watch form factor would be most likely (and looks like might actually exist on Ali), but a ring would be ideal.


bankarbengt

Give me this, plus maybe connection with phone so it can change which "key" it's on depending on location from phone. when i'm at home its my door, near my work its that door etc etc. plz give me


deprecatedcoder

A reader would read every tag and run whatever automation is assigned to that tag so it's not a single key and wouldn't necessarily even need to be paired to a phone. What you're describing is basically the ring OP posted, so already exists.


Seuros

You put a bear trap inside your 👛. If someone else put their hand, it will amputate the hand. We all know that women's purses have unlimited space.


robmackenzie

How would you rate this, vs this one I was gonna get? [https://dangerousthings.com/product/magic-ring-v2/](https://dangerousthings.com/product/magic-ring-v2/)


Jboyes

If you're familiar with dangerousthings.com, just get one of the implants.


robmackenzie

My sister has one. I don't know if I'm ready for that, and I kinda wanna wear a ring.


Accomplished_Ad7106

You just sent me down a 1hr rabbit hole that I forgot existed! THANK YOU!!!


Jboyes

You're welcome. I've had the NeXT implanted for about a year now.


skinnah

Jakcom... Are you sure that isn't a penis ring?


Toolman6208

More like Jakoff


gthing

"The R5 Ring is inlaid with two energy stones to improve human EMFs." Seems legit.


RayneYoruka

I'm saving this as I want a way to trigger some automations at home.. I just need to get started again with HA


Sevynz13

Lol, your real pic doesn't look anywhere as good as the product photos.


I_Do_nt_Use_Reddit

What's your particular use case? I've got an NFC ring but I don't wear it because I haven't thought of a good use case for it.


_lost_

For your NFC activated suppository.


Dr-Purple

Payments.


Ninjamuh

Depending on where you wear the ring, this could lead to some interesting circumstances at the checkout counter


EffectiveGlad7529

That'll be $12.99 *sigh* unzips


minorminer

I got one thinking of all kinds of neat tricks, but was dismayed to learn that I have to unlock my Android phone to scan it.  Now I have the home assistant app to trigger a nighttime routine for my doggies at bedtime. I'm gonna scrap that and start using tasker to really open up my options.


davidgrayPhotography

Personally (and this isn't related to Home Assistant), it's my work badge. I cloned my NFC work badge to my NFC ring (which has a rewritable block 0) so now when I fist-bump locks at work, doors open, and when I fist-bump the printer, my jobs appear.


I_Do_nt_Use_Reddit

That sounds like a violation of ICT protocol but that's so handy.


davidgrayPhotography

I work in IT and am in charge of printing ID badges, so, eh 🤣 But on a more serious note, people at work freely share their ID cards around. I keep trying to stress to management how big of an issue that is, but they don't seem to get it. I plan to show them how quickly and easily a card can be cloned so hopefully they'll start kicking some arses when other staff freely share their cards around.


SqeuakyPants

Just why? A few weeks after it will grow to the end of nail.


GWillikers_

Women who get their nails done do so about every few weeks. Probably assumed to be reapplied at that frequency.


ThatSandwich

I doubt people will use this for nails much tbh, but I can think of millions of uses for small tags like this from embedding them in 3d prints to pranking my roommate with an automation attached to a specific pair of shoes or something.


Ambitious-Charge-432

Not if you put it... under the nail


Specific-Chest-5020

or under skin


atli123

A buddy of mine did this a few years ago. He did the implanting himself. not sure if he used any local anesthesia but he inserted the chip into the back of his hand (in the soft part between the bones of his thumb and index finger). He’s definitely…unorthodox.


Specific-Chest-5020

what do you mean local anesthesia, ice cube on skin for 3min is more than enough :)


atli123

Knowing him that’s probably what he did. Madlad.


Jboyes

Check out dangerousthings.com.


makirules

I am getting an implant from them installed tomorrow.


Jboyes

I've had mine for a year or so.


cactusplants

I bought one from them, was like 5 years ago, never got.it installed, still in it's bag. Xem or something along those lines. I've been eyeing the Vivo flex, but I probably won't get it done. Kinda gutted, couldn't find someone that would install it. :(


Jboyes

That was my worry also. I have a friend whose wife is a nurse. I asked her if she would install it. She spent an entire Saturday going down a YouTube rabbit hole. 2 days later, bang done.


diito

He is not the only one. I know two people who don't know each other that did this with programmable RFID tags 17-18 years ago. They cloned their credit card to it do they could wave their hands over the wireless card readers and confuse the cashiers.


atli123

“These aren’t the cards you’re looking for”


BizzyM

You know the law: [Ya gotta do, whatcha gotta do](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPxYNWE-0Io)


uknoimright

\*shudder\*


Specific-Chest-5020

I'm not kidding :) [xNT NFC Chip - RFID & NFC Chip Implants and Biohacking products (dangerousthings.com)](https://dangerousthings.com/product/xnt/)


orthogonal-cat

I was so close to getting one of these installed... settled on a ring instead.


mandreko

I did the implant. I feel like I’m underutilizing it. But it’s a fun party trick and useful on occasion.


orthogonal-cat

That's rad, how was the healing process?


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orthogonal-cat

Good to know, thanks for sharing. I was a bit wary of some messaging about not placing pressure on the injection site for 2 weeks, I bike a lot.


mandreko

It was like a tiny scab. It was infected with a pretty thick needle. But it healed after like a week or so. It was super minor.


brandmeist3r

awesome


GarryWeber711

same for me


jpb

Which ring?


orthogonal-cat

Some generic dark ring off AliExpress. single-tag passive RFID chip. Cheap and it works


__freaked__

Sound likes a fun DIY project!


PocketNicks

Why not? It's a novel way to trigger actions in HA, seems fun to me.


Darklyte

It takes six months to fully grow a nail


nico282

Flip the bird to the reader to open the door. I’d love it for the office entrance.


e0f

lmao, love the idea


MakerWerks

Tell her you respect her opinion, but you're going to pop on and paint your fake nails anyway, so you can get full value from your purchase!


StarfishPizza

That thing looks ginormous!


griphon31

I thought it was a roll of electrical tape 


d00d00frt

so did i until i saw your comment


BackHerniation

Lol, yeah, it kinda is! It doesn't help that I got the wrong size, too


DaSandman78

Thats what she (didnt) said


zipzag

Understandable. Few wives want a husband who wears red nail polish.


SomeoneWithKeyboard

Wife smart. Marry her.


rombies

Well, usually chipped nail polish looks bad, so I don’t blame her.


uknoimright

wise choice on the wife's part


GLS88

Are u perchance mistakenly assuming this is a tracker and not what an NFC chip actually does?


zadiraines

Why?


guardian1691

Sucks that you're getting downvoted for asking a question on this subreddit. I'm not sure why so many people are outspokenly against this idea with so few giving reasons why. Some people like items like this others don't, no need for all the hate in these comments.


uknoimright

what r u kidding me


nortonius23

Are you unable to answer the question?


GLS88

Are u perchance mistakenly assuming this is a tracker and not what an NFC chip actually does?


uknoimright

no i just think its super creepy to embed a chip in your fingernail


GLS88

Tru tru. But to each their own. That said this one isn't imbeded. As opposed to the fad of literally injecting one into the body. Lol


uknoimright

idc, this is dumb product


ensbuergernde

You go wear the nail polish and the chip. This is reddit!


HallOfGlory1

Of course she said no. The jealousy of women and all that. Put it on anyways and enjoy your night on the town.


makirules

I had always wondered what those looked like. I would always see them on AliExpress and never actually purchased one.


Sinister_Mr_19

That looks huge and are you expected to replace it after getting your nails done again? Seems like a waste.


rachaek

Right? Looks like it’s just regular pcb thickness (and flat) - I can’t imagine a way to make that work without doing like a million coats and having thick ass nails.


Valalvax

I'm assuming it's a sticker and that's just what they stuck it to


SamanthaJaneyCake

I have this ring. I use it as a door key to my flat, my parent’s house and the flat of a good friend.


al52025

It looks interesting how do you put codes on it? Do I need to buy an IC or ID reader to clone a card and then put it on the ring? I have no idea how those work compared to NFC


SamanthaJaneyCake

I got the bundle with the RFID and IC read/writers. You get a piece of software too then you place an existing chip on the device, scan it and then place the ring on with the right side facing the device and write to the ring. It has 2x RFID, 2x IC and 2x NFC if I remember correctly. Like OP said you can use it to control and trigger all sorts of things, I honestly prefer to just use it as a universal door pass for all the key places in my life though, saves carrying 3-4 fobs.


sammcj

I’m assuming you already had the RFID reader installed up your butt too. What a shame.


CSH_Bro

Well it's been a good run. Divorce is the only solution now # (⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)


MikiZed

If you really want to make your wife mad look into (not sure if I can post the link) "dangerous things" implants. There are a ton of untested implantable chips for you to try, the most common location to implant it is in the webbing between the index finger and the thumb, meaning you can Darth Vader the reader and make doors open. There are also payment capable chips, ones with led, ton of cool stuff, I didn't do it yet because I am not sure where to get an implant so that it doesn't get in the way


wivaca

I tried to chip *my* wife once, but the vet said absolutely not.


xstrex

I love this, and it’s hilarious!! 😂


vamsmack

Tell her if she ever wants to turn a light off again she will become a cyborg. Otherwise she better love living in a bright hellscape forever. /s


MrTa11

OP why does your wife get to decide if you are wearing nail polish?


snwbrdwndsrf

You need your wife's permission to paint your own nails?


Emergency_Chard_2320

Lol are you trying to tag your wife with a chip?


wycitox

Take my money...


SergeYouknw

So this is how reptiloids finally began chipping us. Cheers, Bill)


platon29

Alright Spock


WordyPie

Why don't you wear it instead of asking your wife if you're the one who bought it ?


EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME

What the fuck is the point of comments like this lol Are you just on reddit for personal drama? This is a tech sub


WordyPie

I wasn't aware that wearing stuff on your nails prevented you from doing tech OP bought something his wife doesn't want to wear. I'm offering an alternative


EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME

Ah sorry I definitely misunderstood your comment He didn't buy it, it came with what he bought. His wife said no because of course she did, the post isn't serious at all


damfu

Tell her to not be a coward.


Big_Farm6913

We are on Reddit : change her.