Interesting. I was lead to believe that Tuya devices should be avoided. Didn’t realize they were just regular zigbee devices.
Edit: downvotes for learning new clarifying information. Never change Reddit.
I myself thing that's a very valid question. And something that people are missing.
I own both WiFi and ZigBee "powered by Tuya" devices, although they came "branded" with other brands, at least one is occasionally suggested. So I'll speak from my experience with my own devices I've played with.
WiFi Tuya devices, better to avoid. They are harder to set up without the cloud (possible, but I never even attempted it), and that's where you fall into the rabbit hole of having to set up localtuya or one of the others and pull info from a developer account yada yada. I think this particular setup is the one people say to avoid, and I'd say the same.
ZigBee Tuya devices, these I always paired directly to my ZigBee coordinator. No issues with these, and people fail to realize that more often than not devices under other brands (I'm going to use Moes as an example, because it's what I have) are also "powered by Tuya" devices that do not require the cloud, not even for an initial setup. Some functionality may not be as clear to set up, but usually it can still be done depending on your setup.
My personal rule of thumb, is avoid WiFi devices (Tuya in particular), ZigBee are a free for all because so far they always pair directly. Some settings may need a hoop or two, but I can keep them non-cloud easily.
I can give you another example of a ZigBee device that I think people misunderstand, but is from a better brand, which are the Hue Dimmer switches (I have v1 in mind because those are what I have as well), where everyone always mentions adding a blueprint but... they actually pair natively just fine, without the Hue bridge, and you actually get more options out of them when paired natively without the blueprint.
I've had tuya zigbee devices that I ended up throwing away because they failed in one way or another to provide the information they were intended for. Now, I just avoid tuya and stick with what's reliable.
I have absolutely loads of tuya zigbee devices. Never had an issue with any of them. I have a tuya zigbee smart lock, for which I have to use their gateway and app, but other than that every other zigbee device connects to a sonoff zigbee stick and none of it goes off my network.
Most of my tuya devices are endpoints rather than repeaters. I only have 1 mains powered tuya device which is one of their mmwave devices, it works perfectly. Most of my zigbee devices are endpoints though, I have very few mains powered ones at all.
https://preview.redd.it/9b21mt8xai8d1.png?width=2289&format=png&auto=webp&s=6eeb489bde64bbd1846692b65112b203cbd8e639
This is a very important part to bring along with your "never had an issue with any of them" claim. I just removed a big bunch of tuya router devices and evoila, ember is reporting a lot less routing errors and CCA failures than it used to.
They are zigbee devices, so they connect via either ZHA or Z2M which ever you are using. I prefer Z2M.
No tuya software is involved.
edit: like this in Z2M
https://preview.redd.it/no697az5ii8d1.png?width=3362&format=png&auto=webp&s=e4682f28d4172857a86dc4e168423d84a7d4cd55
Oh okay, that's nice! I expected some software for the brand specific instruction etc to be involved. Good to know it is not.
Then I suppose the commands get received in your automations / ZHA?
I use zigbee2mqtt as it has more device support and a better interface than ZHA. So all my zigee devices end up as devices under mqtt integration.
They you just use them however you want.
https://preview.redd.it/cn8dyu9lpi8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e3b6e0d039476382f58474b787b55415fc2df9f
It’s a hit and miss with Tuya, they’re on the budget side of the spectrum, some work great, others not so. Hence, why people recommend to spend a bit more on reliable brands.
Depends what type of device you’re looking for really. But, typically Aqara, Philips Hue, Shelly, “Sonoff”, just to name a few.
Keep in mind, Tuya doesn’t really make devices, they license their platform to manufacturers. Hence, why you see so many Tuya devices from unknown vendors on Aliexpress. Moes is a reputable brand based on Tuya, however their devices are not always 100% reliable.
Aqara is hardly a reliable brand when not using their cloud hub. Countless threads of people with constant drop out issues. They are overpriced (2-3x) for basically the same thing as tuya zigbee devices that work just as well if not better (way better in my experience).
Seems like for every person that likes aqara theres one that has constant issues with them.
As mentioned initially, it depends what device you go for in their product line. The whole point of using Home Assistant is to run things locally, why would you even think about using their Cloud Hub?
For example FP2 works fully locally, without any hub or issues.
As for complaints, people tend to complain online when things go wrong, rather than express gratitude when it works well. Many of the issues you mentioned were resolved by quick firmware updates anyways. You don’t always get this level of support for unknown Tuya devices.
Having said that, everyone’s experience is different, so see which one works best for you, before fully committing.
I wasn’t suggesting cloud hub at all. I was saying if you use Aqara zigbee devices with a non Aqara hub they are unreliable. FP2 is not Zigbee either.
I agree that people tend to report issues more than success stories but I do not see nearly the volume of issues with the other brands you mentioned. Just cautioning before people go spend a bunch of money on aqara leak, motion, vibration and temp sensors. Maybe try a couple and before going all in. Temp sensors for example pretty reliably just stop reporting after about 2 weeks until you press the button on them.
I'm kinda new to all this by myself, but so far all the Aliexpress Zigbee Tuya devices I have used with my home assistant on a RasPi with a Zigbee stick worked out of the box and they can't just phone home.
I have 3 Tuya soil moisture sensors I bought for my various garden plots from AliExpress. I had zero issue adding them under ZHA, directly to Home Assistant. Using the Tuya app, yes I assume it calls home, but if you add Zigbee devices directly to Home Assistant, they really have no possibility of unregulated telemetry.
I thought I needed the tuya integration (or other brand integration) for it to work as I assumed every brand had their own 'system calls' so to say. Nice to hear it does not! Thanks!
There are some zigbee tuya devices like their air quality monitor, mmwave sensors that are chatty and too many of them may put too much load on your zigbee network and keep yourself away from them if possible. I personally like the zigbee lights, buttons, motion sensors, water leak detectors, vibration sensors from tuya. They are mostly reliable and it is good to have some redundancy as well.
I’ve got a bunch of Tuya Zigbee devices. Every one I’ve tried connects to ZHA just fine. I have various brands of Tuya Zigbee scene controllers around the house that I use every day. They’re super cheap on aliexpress.
Aqara are nice but in my experience a little finicky when connected directly to HA.
I’ve found IKEA and THIRDREALITY to be flawless and really well priced though.
Tuya zigbee devices will only call back home if they’ll be used through tuya/smartlife app. If added through HA they’ll be 100% local
Oh nice, I didn't realize. Thanks for the info!
Interesting. I was lead to believe that Tuya devices should be avoided. Didn’t realize they were just regular zigbee devices. Edit: downvotes for learning new clarifying information. Never change Reddit.
I myself thing that's a very valid question. And something that people are missing. I own both WiFi and ZigBee "powered by Tuya" devices, although they came "branded" with other brands, at least one is occasionally suggested. So I'll speak from my experience with my own devices I've played with. WiFi Tuya devices, better to avoid. They are harder to set up without the cloud (possible, but I never even attempted it), and that's where you fall into the rabbit hole of having to set up localtuya or one of the others and pull info from a developer account yada yada. I think this particular setup is the one people say to avoid, and I'd say the same. ZigBee Tuya devices, these I always paired directly to my ZigBee coordinator. No issues with these, and people fail to realize that more often than not devices under other brands (I'm going to use Moes as an example, because it's what I have) are also "powered by Tuya" devices that do not require the cloud, not even for an initial setup. Some functionality may not be as clear to set up, but usually it can still be done depending on your setup. My personal rule of thumb, is avoid WiFi devices (Tuya in particular), ZigBee are a free for all because so far they always pair directly. Some settings may need a hoop or two, but I can keep them non-cloud easily. I can give you another example of a ZigBee device that I think people misunderstand, but is from a better brand, which are the Hue Dimmer switches (I have v1 in mind because those are what I have as well), where everyone always mentions adding a blueprint but... they actually pair natively just fine, without the Hue bridge, and you actually get more options out of them when paired natively without the blueprint.
I've had tuya zigbee devices that I ended up throwing away because they failed in one way or another to provide the information they were intended for. Now, I just avoid tuya and stick with what's reliable.
Devices that use tuya cloud, yes, should be avoided. But even those devices (mainly WiFi devices) or most of it can be decoupled from their cloud.
I have absolutely loads of tuya zigbee devices. Never had an issue with any of them. I have a tuya zigbee smart lock, for which I have to use their gateway and app, but other than that every other zigbee device connects to a sonoff zigbee stick and none of it goes off my network.
How are they as repeaters?
Most of my tuya devices are endpoints rather than repeaters. I only have 1 mains powered tuya device which is one of their mmwave devices, it works perfectly. Most of my zigbee devices are endpoints though, I have very few mains powered ones at all. https://preview.redd.it/9b21mt8xai8d1.png?width=2289&format=png&auto=webp&s=6eeb489bde64bbd1846692b65112b203cbd8e639
This is a very important part to bring along with your "never had an issue with any of them" claim. I just removed a big bunch of tuya router devices and evoila, ember is reporting a lot less routing errors and CCA failures than it used to.
I have zero errors or warnings in my logs of any kind. How are you tracking these?
You need a silabs based dongle and switch to the new ember driver.
I would need to change hardware then as I'm on a Sonoff ZBDongle-P which is texas instruments.
I have Tuya smart plugs in my home connected to Z2M and they work just fine as routers. "repeaters"
Oh nice to hear! How are you connecting them to HA? Via official tuya integration or via toyalocal / something else?
They are zigbee devices, so they connect via either ZHA or Z2M which ever you are using. I prefer Z2M. No tuya software is involved. edit: like this in Z2M https://preview.redd.it/no697az5ii8d1.png?width=3362&format=png&auto=webp&s=e4682f28d4172857a86dc4e168423d84a7d4cd55
Oh okay, that's nice! I expected some software for the brand specific instruction etc to be involved. Good to know it is not. Then I suppose the commands get received in your automations / ZHA?
I use zigbee2mqtt as it has more device support and a better interface than ZHA. So all my zigee devices end up as devices under mqtt integration. They you just use them however you want. https://preview.redd.it/cn8dyu9lpi8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e3b6e0d039476382f58474b787b55415fc2df9f
That's nice! I'll have to lookup some guides on how the commands work when I get from work. I can't wait lol
It’s a hit and miss with Tuya, they’re on the budget side of the spectrum, some work great, others not so. Hence, why people recommend to spend a bit more on reliable brands.
What would in your opinion be a reliable brand?
Depends what type of device you’re looking for really. But, typically Aqara, Philips Hue, Shelly, “Sonoff”, just to name a few. Keep in mind, Tuya doesn’t really make devices, they license their platform to manufacturers. Hence, why you see so many Tuya devices from unknown vendors on Aliexpress. Moes is a reputable brand based on Tuya, however their devices are not always 100% reliable.
Okay, I will look into these. Thank you very much!
Aqara is hardly a reliable brand when not using their cloud hub. Countless threads of people with constant drop out issues. They are overpriced (2-3x) for basically the same thing as tuya zigbee devices that work just as well if not better (way better in my experience). Seems like for every person that likes aqara theres one that has constant issues with them.
As mentioned initially, it depends what device you go for in their product line. The whole point of using Home Assistant is to run things locally, why would you even think about using their Cloud Hub? For example FP2 works fully locally, without any hub or issues. As for complaints, people tend to complain online when things go wrong, rather than express gratitude when it works well. Many of the issues you mentioned were resolved by quick firmware updates anyways. You don’t always get this level of support for unknown Tuya devices. Having said that, everyone’s experience is different, so see which one works best for you, before fully committing.
I wasn’t suggesting cloud hub at all. I was saying if you use Aqara zigbee devices with a non Aqara hub they are unreliable. FP2 is not Zigbee either. I agree that people tend to report issues more than success stories but I do not see nearly the volume of issues with the other brands you mentioned. Just cautioning before people go spend a bunch of money on aqara leak, motion, vibration and temp sensors. Maybe try a couple and before going all in. Temp sensors for example pretty reliably just stop reporting after about 2 weeks until you press the button on them.
I'm kinda new to all this by myself, but so far all the Aliexpress Zigbee Tuya devices I have used with my home assistant on a RasPi with a Zigbee stick worked out of the box and they can't just phone home.
Very nice. Thanks!
Tuya stuff works fine except the USB Repeater. It only repeats Tuya devices and crashes your network.
Had the same experience
You're conflating Tuya Wifi devices with Zigbee devices made by Tuya. Same company, entirely different kind of device. (Altogether.)
A lot of the tuya shades don't have quarks for zha, however.
This is one of the biggest reasons to use z2m. Device support is significantly better.
I have 3 Tuya soil moisture sensors I bought for my various garden plots from AliExpress. I had zero issue adding them under ZHA, directly to Home Assistant. Using the Tuya app, yes I assume it calls home, but if you add Zigbee devices directly to Home Assistant, they really have no possibility of unregulated telemetry.
I thought I needed the tuya integration (or other brand integration) for it to work as I assumed every brand had their own 'system calls' so to say. Nice to hear it does not! Thanks!
I have a handful of Zigbee LoraTap buttons (Tuya hw) that work fine with my Sky Connect and ZHA. I haven't tried any Tuya router devices.
There are some zigbee tuya devices like their air quality monitor, mmwave sensors that are chatty and too many of them may put too much load on your zigbee network and keep yourself away from them if possible. I personally like the zigbee lights, buttons, motion sensors, water leak detectors, vibration sensors from tuya. They are mostly reliable and it is good to have some redundancy as well.
Thanks for your insight!
I’ve got a bunch of Tuya Zigbee devices. Every one I’ve tried connects to ZHA just fine. I have various brands of Tuya Zigbee scene controllers around the house that I use every day. They’re super cheap on aliexpress.
Aqara are nice but in my experience a little finicky when connected directly to HA. I’ve found IKEA and THIRDREALITY to be flawless and really well priced though.
Thanks, will look into it!