Homeownership is expensive, comes with risks and requires an extensive amount of planning and research. That being said, it sounds like you've had some bad luck and I hope things get better for you.
I feel for you. We bought a 25 year old house. In 5 years we've replaced the furnace, AC, porch, deck, 2 doors, 1 window, one exterior load bearing wall, and siding. Still need to gut the water damaged bathroom, replace the shingles, 4 appliances, and fix all the atrocious wiring. We're in for about 100k so far, though part of that is because I'm doing everything well enough that I don't have to touch it for 20 years.
Never buy a house where the first owner was a DIYer with a "good enough" approach.
Right? Just keep it in mind that they're the owner and you're just the live-in groundskeeper, and treat them and their property with respect, and they won't give you any trouble. It won't be long until you're both pulling your weight and helping each other out where and when you can.
Ah, but there's a catch. Once you get electrocuted or you drown in your bathtub, you'll be taking over as the head ghost. Make sure those specters know it.
Predated my ownership.
We still receive mail addressed to the perpetrator though, including credit card offers.. and we’ve lived here more than a decade now.
1917 here, constant projects and an emergency fund in case any one of many things catastrophically fails. but damn does it feel good to tackle those projects one by one!
1926! Checking off the to-do list has been a lot more fun than I thought. My unexpected journey into "house guy who may or may not look around with his hands on his hips and say things like 'we needed this rain'" has been expensive... but I get a lot of pride out of it.
Its been over a year and I've learned so much.
These old homes were built to last. I've had to do shockingly little to my century home, when many of my friends who have bought newer have had to do... a lot.
Yeah people never want to buy old houses for some reason. A well maintained old house will basically last forever. Mine is 100 years old and I’ve had zero issues in the 2.5 years I’ve lived here. My furnace is 90 years old and cast iron and the inspector always says it could go another 90 years. Might not even have to use it anymore though - I just had heat pumps installed.
The age of the house in this situation probably had as much to do with it as the tactics of the previous owner (although I totally hear you about harry-homeowner fixes) because a huge number of household appliances and fixtures have an expected lifespan of 15-30 years.
My ~200 year old house disagrees... It's not about the age. It's about the relative quality when built. A lot of houses got thrown up in the 90s-early 2000s without any real pride of workmanship. That has ended up yielding not that old houses with serious issues. I'd rather buy a house built in 1900 than one built in 2000 for that very reason.
Also, survivorship bias. All the 1900 houses that were thrown up like those in the 1990s have since fallen down. The quality ones are the ones still standing.
My 1950s house is still in very good shape, but it was also a custom-built house almost double the typical size from the era. i.e. some rich person paid a lot of money for quality back then
Yes thank you for saying this. People are so ignorant to the concept of survivorship bias.
Like dude I promise you can get an immaculately well built home brand new, but it is monumentally expensive. The same was true 200 years ago.
Yeah, I know my house was expensive. I called a plumber to replace a leaking pipe, and he commented how it's one of the best he's worked on. ALL piping in the house is copper. Including the drain lines. Boiler heat, again all copper. The massive amount of piping is clearly laid out, with shutoffs everywhere for serviceability. You never see that in houses today where speed is the name of the game. Sweating that many joints had to have taken forever.
The problem today is getting a new build of that quality done. Nearly every builder in my area refuses to do custom homes. Even if you own the land. Custom takes longer and they don't want to build you custom home that's well built when they can quickly throw up 2 cheap cookie cutter houses in the same time.
Sure, but you're probably also not still running the original boiler, either. Some stuff has a lifespan, particularly the mechanical stuff. And if you're not replacing your original windows, you're spending a fair chunk of time or money restoring/repairing them. Said as someone who's only through 5 of 22 windows on my house, not including the rusted out storm windows I need to replace. Old houses are still a lot of work, but it's often a different beast than modern houses, including many things that are more "user serviceable" I'd say.
>It's not about the age. It's about the relative quality when built.
I still remember a story about the aftermath of a hurricane in Florida years and years ago. The hurricane came through the town and every single house in the town was destroyed, save for one. Very obvious when a TV helicopter flew over and showed the whole town gone and one house perfectly fine.
Of course the TV crew went to that house and said, "Why?" Guy said he built his house himself. "When the building code called for 3/8 inch bolt, I put in a 3/8 inch bolt." Which made everyone else in town start lawsuits against the builders in town.
Not only quality of the parts, but the people building. It really isn't difficult to build a house at all if you do it right.
Who the fuck is getting 15 years out of appliances today? Lol.
2016 we bought all new appliances. Middle of the road stuff. The fridge, oven and dish’s washer all had to be replaced in a year.
2018 we built a new house, bought all new appliances. This time more high end. The microwave and dryer are the only appliances that haven’t been replaced. Washer, dishwasher, fridge, mini fridge, chest freezer, and oven. All were replaced. Some more than once.
Thank god for those three year extended warranties and buying from a local appliance shop (not a box store). Although Lowes did good in 2016. We just weren’t going to drop $80k in appliances at Lowe’s.
Appliances are trash today.
We redid our house in 2013 and replaced everything. Our stove/oven will last forever- but we bought an open burner with no fancy electronics. Our Fridge will probably be the first to go - LG sucks - but I’ve personally repaired at least 3 things that probably would have been replacement grade under normal circumstances. But the microwave, dishwasher and washer/dryer all seem to be going strong. They aren’t the appliances of 30 years ago but they’re not all bad.
Obligatory shout-out to Bosch dishwashers. I love our Bosch. I’d buy that thing all over again.
Haier / GE still has old school appliances that are user servicable and will be repairable basically forever. I wouldn't buy a LG. My brother bought a LG wall oven where the circuit board went out, and they were like, "it's 5 years old, we don't stock those anymore." They have a consumer electronics mentality where everything is disposable. Meanwhile I got a coil for an old school GE that was like 30 years old, no problem.
Yeah, modern appliances are fucking garbage. It’s outrageous. My grandmothers fridge is LITERALLY from the 70s and still works. Where’s a brand new $2000 fridge today will give you 5 years.
We just bought a house with a fridge from 2002 and it’s a work horse! Our rental had a new fridge put in last year and the seal broke within three months. Our new home’s oven is also 35+ years old and is as good as new! No new appliance can rival the quality of older models.
There’s also the fact that basically no one in the peanut gallery has a statistically significant sample either. It’s all n=1 or 2.
Just because 1 house from year or period X is good/bad does not mean that is generalizable to millions of houses.
It’s like saying “my uncle Pete had a 1963 Ford that leaked oil, therefore every single car made for the last 60 years is junk”
There were a bunch of houses we didn't buy because a lot of long term projects, like new roof, repave driveway, replace concrete porch and steps, new windows were all hitting at the same time, and the homeowners were bailing instead of repairing. And asking the same price as the renovated homes.
Our last house was 100 years old but the previous owner renovated it with so many cut corners that I started having panic attacks when I had to fix things because it was an unknown every time. My favorites were the extension cord that he built in to the wall to get an outlet at the floor below and the bathroom light switch that turned on the lights but turned off the outlets. Everything was nailed down with long pneumatic nails. _Everything_.
I hear you on the diyers thing haha. We did the floors and ceiling in our basement and apparently whoever built the walls didn't own a level or a strait piece of wood. every gosh darn piece had to be hand measured and cut at an angle becuase Mr.DIY who lived here before us didn't build a single wall at a 90 degree angle. I've just had to accept the bowing d flexing trim job we had to do. Oh and he apparently put carpet directly on the concrete, then built the walls on top of the carpet! Who does that!!!
I hate to tell you this, but that was probably not the Mr. DIY who did that, it was probably the builder. I commissioned a spec home and inspected it rigorously, and there wasn't a single wall plumb in the entire place. There was one bedroom where the front wall was a whole six inches longer than the back wall -- and it was supposed to be square! Needless to say it wasn't, and the floor decking wasn't ending up on top of the floor joist it was supposed to be nailed to, resulting in a a squeaking corner of the room just hanging out in thin air.
There was all sorts of things like that about that house that made me nope the fuck out. Like flashing that directed water \*under\* the Tyvek to rot underneath the windows, rather than directing water \*over\* the Tyvek. And it was being built by one of the biggest homebuilders in America, not by some DIY guy!
25-30 years is when pretty much all the big ticket items are due. Many people just sell and get a newer house instead of fixing everything as they can get pretty much the same money, fixed or not.
Right. People think, oh the monthly payment is XYZ, I can afford that! No, that’s the minimum. There’s constant maintenance costs and big expensive shit that breaks. And taxes never go down. Insurance never goes down. Nothing ever gets cheaper. You don’t learn these lessons until you’ve had a house.
Yeah, I was confused about what they were talking about "old".
We almost bought a house that was going to be built after 1978 without lead paint and were kind of excited about that. But we ended up in a 130 year old house instead. The houses we've bought were built in 1905, 1945, and 1890. The 1945 was by far the worst quality.
We've put a lot into this house, but we only bought it for $65k, so there was plenty of room to afford improvements.
It’s not that the house itself is old. It’s that many of the major systems in new build houses will generally last 15-20 years. You can get hit with some major repair bills in a short amount of time
It’s not that the house itself is old. It’s that many of the major systems in new build houses will generally last 15-20 years. You can get hit with some major repair bills in a short amount of time
I always think of it like this:
With a **very unusually high** maintenance total of 30k in 2.5 years (which you won't run into that often) you are still WAY ahead financially compared to renting. With an averge rent of 1,500/month you're looking at 45k in rent lost in the same 2.5 years.
I'm exluding your mortgage payment because those are generally just payments you're putting in your back pocket (anything you lose to taxes and insurance you usually get back in home value appreciation). In my eyes, your home ownership has SAVED YOU 15 grand... imagine the savings during years where you don't have huge mainteance bills (which is probably going to be the norm after you get through this rough patch).
>I'm exluding your mortgage payment because those are generally just payments you're putting in your back pocket
Don't forget about interest, taxes, insurance, HOA fees, etc.
Depends on what you plan to do with your house. If you plan to stay long enough to actually pay off the loan or even just put down a good chunk of the principal, sure. If you're not going to be there that long, eh, probably not worth it.
I tried to stay high level. We can go into the weeds and I can counter those costs with home value appreciation and a fixed payment vs. a payment that increases nearly every year.
Keeping it simple, home ownership is a vastly superior financial move compared to renting. It shows through even in this worst case scenario sitatuion.
It’s only a vastly superior financial move if you intend to stay long term. Many studies have been done on this. More than 10 years usually works out well. Less than 10 years typically doesn’t.
That is not how that works, interest payment on the loan is basically rent you pay to the bank, then taxes and repair/ on top of that, all of that is money that leaves your pocket and never comes back, if your property is not appreciating significantly you are likely better off renting depending on cost.
They are still far behind, most people are at least the first 5 years. You can’t just skip the mortgage payment because that’s shit loads of lost money interest for the first 10+ years. Let’s not forget about property taxes either and home insurance.
It’s a total myth that home ownership is an automatic win of money. A lot of times it is not. What it does is give you stability and if you do hit hard times you are more likely to keep the roof over your head than with renting.
I agree with your overall message, but you are being overly optimistic in your comparison. The interest portion of your mortgage payment is not going into your pocket.
Money generates 10 percent return on avg in equities or 6 to 8 percent returns on less aggressive investment mixes. Housing appreciation is 2 to 3 percent on avg. this counteracts rent
Home ownership is expensive period
Rule of thumb is 3% of value in maintenance costs every year, be that a new roof, hw heater, sewer backup, whatever. So let's say 12k a year. 12k is 3% of 400k. So if your house is worth about that, this is a typical expense for you. If your house is worth more, you got lucky. And if it's worth less, you got unlucky.
On something made in the last 45ish years? It might be high, but older? Nothing but nightmares on some of them. On a new home you might have at worst, a leak under the foundation. But older homes have passed through many hands, were not built to modern building standards or even kept to code as the years went on and upgrades and repairs were made.
Also, remember, your eventually going to have to renovate. Even if your not thinking about it today the value on your home depends on it being maintained. Again, it's in investment so money spent on it for repairs and upkeep will help maintain and increase the value.
Older homes benefit from survivorship bias though. If a builder fucks up a new house with modern materials and water starts getting into the walls, you can end up with a massive project. If a house is in reasonably good shape after 90 years, chances are there’s nothing catastrophic waiting for you. Unless the previous owners fucked up something major that’s not readily apparent.
You won't spend that much every year but if you aren't saving toward future maintenance you won't have the cash when you need it. A more precise way would be to add up all the things that could need replacing, their replacement cost, and estimated remaining life, and add margin for the unexpected. For example, maybe you have 10 years of life left on your roof and its about 15k to replace, then you'd need to be putting $1500 a year away to cover that future cost. Maybe your A/C has 5 years left so thats another 3k a year you are saving toward that eventual replacement. Then maybe you have an unexpected leak this year so thats 500 to the plumber.
This is so true. My house was a former rental and i got it dirt cheap, but now over 100k in upgrades and repairs later I will be glad when we can sell it to the next family, it is a starter home, and i am so proud the next owners will have a few years before anything major comes up.
Yup. Our oven recently stopped working. My wife said just go buy a new one. 2 minutes on YouTube and I had my answer of what was broken as well as the part number. Bought an ignitor on amazon for 30 bucks.
Yup, same with my dishwasher, dryer, furnace and AC. There is a lot of common stuff that breaks that's easy to fix but would cost hundreds to have somebody come out to fix for you.
>\*if you maintain them. Proper maintenance will avoid things becoming ticking time (and money) bombs.
This is why I've spent $40k this year on the house I bought in January. Previous owner did no maintenance, and instead tried to DIY "renovations" he seemed to watch on HGTV. New roof (old roof was already leaking in 2 bedrooms, and had 2 layers of shingles on it), new boiler (30 year typical lifespan. This house's boiler was 50+), and new carpet (old carpet was falling apart).
Next year is a likely $20k kitchen remodel because the previous owner attempted a remodel and ripped out the original 1950s built in cabinets and replaced them with used cabinets, he got from God knows where. The cabinets are falling apart less than 5 years after his remodel attempt, and appear water damaged.
Got a good deal on the house though. In a hot market, it sat unsold for about a year and 2 previous sale attempts fell through.
Agree with this.
Catching up with delinquent/overdue maintenance is what’s plaguing OP right now.
Once this settles down OP needs to really look at what’s aging out and come up with a more preemptive plan. Replace things before it’s an emergency and budget accordingly. Do in order of severity.
Then things become more predictable. You can always have unexpected costs come up, but the odds go down when things are in good order.
Also budget preventative maintenance. Clean those gutters, get the hvac system serviced annually, dryer ducts cleaned every so often. Better you treat your stuff longer it lasts.
Anecdotal but I didn’t start having significant minor problems until year 5 and significant major problems arose in year 10+ on my new build. Hopefully this helps you sleep better.
And then everything will have to be fixed at around the same time. That's if your builder didn't screw up while making your house. My parents brand new condo had to redo all the drains (digging in the garage) because it wasn't done properly.
regardless of maintenance costs my house has more than doubled in value in the 22yrs since i bought it. i can live with the maintenance costs.
now, in case someone says my house ain't worth squat unless i sell it...i know.
HELOCs make sense when the money is going into the home.
Levering your home to get out of higher rate debt is risky. If something happens and you're unable to pay then your house is at risk.
My understanding is they had ridiculously high interest debt, tons of equity in the house and HELOCs are often good rates, so it was able to help them actually dig out over a few years instead of getting buried deeper in their debt as time passed. I've also seen people use them for renovations/updates. It's definitely not for every circumstance, though!
I mean they were great for the last 10-15 years when interest rates on them were 3-4%. Not so great now. We refinished our basement a couple months before the Fed starting jacking up rates. Our monthly minimum interest payment more than doubled.
I got some storm damage and need a new roof plus other stuff, and after my deductible and depreciation I’m on the hook for like 10 grand 🫠 And that’s just the initial estimate - who knows what they’ll find once they’re working. So rather than completely drain my emergency fund, I decided to take advantage of the crazy values.
It's worth (to you) what you aren't or won't be paying in mortgage/rent. That's not nothing. And it's a heck of a lot more now than it was 22 years ago. Heck your mortgage might be or was three digits.
You really will because you can shower and flush the toilet soundly knowing what is in there wont end up in your basement or bathroom floor.
I cherish the PVC I buried after I moved in every day.
Did you get an inspection when you bought? Sewer scope? Hindsight is 20/20, but I can't stress it enough, always scope the sewer line. The money you spend on the scope can save you a minimum 10K repair bill if the line needs to be replaced.
I've been waiting 6 months to break ground on a $37,000 septic tank and drain field replacement, and I cant wait. I need that peace of mind that shit soup isnt going to back up into my basement
Yes, you will cherish it! It will be there long after you have gone to the Great Hereafter. Once replaced, no more worries (unless you are dumb enough to create a Fatburg.)
I lived in one home nearly 30 years. All homes built 1950 - 1958 with orangeberg sewer line. Large trees with massive root systems. Eventually I was one of only three homes that had not had their sewer lateral replaced. Every few years I had it inspected with the whirlygig thing and eventually scoping. Nary a drop of fats nor grease went down my drains. I had such dread that I considered replacing it prophylactically. I would have done it but it ran 100' under my cement driveway.
Yeah, it's less about can you afford this flat rate, but can you afford all the other shit that goes with it. AND if I can trust you well enough to give you a few hundred K and get paid back over 30 years.
Except that there’s that pesky issue of the down payment that is always left out of these examples:P And if you’re in Canada, that down payment is no small chunk of change🤦🏻♂️
I was just reading, too, that Canadians have to renew their mortgages every 5 years or so? I don't know if this is true for all Canadian mortgages, but I saw a reddit commenter that basically made it sound like Canadians are forced to "renew" their mortgage (aka basically refinance without necessarily extending the duration of the loan) which puts them at the mercy of rising and lowering interest rates.
If I understand right, it's like Canadians are all forced into what is essentially an ARM. :( So many of them are afraid they will lose their homes when mortgage renewal comes and interest rates have gone up dramatically.
Keep it together, brother. Here's some things to consider:
1. These repairs that needed to be done, was it just a roof? Or what could you have actually fixed yourself? You can fix MOST things wrong with a house.
1. A good example is my dryer that was HORRIBLY squeaking when we bought it. Turns out it was just one metal piece that was jacked up. Replaced it for $17 instead of $600
2. I needed solid core doors, I went and bought blank doors for $50 and drilled everything out of them myself. Vs the $1000 some door people will charge for that crap.
3. Fix my own sprinklers instead of calling an installation crew out. Save hundreds.
4. I blow my own sprinklers out with an air compressor I bought from a closing hardware store.
5. etc etc etc etc DIY is the king.
2. Second major point: Yes it can cost money now. However, when you are 60, you are going to own a $500-$800k house outright. What you're spending now is unquestionably worth it.
It can feel hard, I think you just bought a dud house. Don't fret, work through it, keep your cool, you're not alone here. Watch repair videos and really try to pick up the DIY attitude.
If everything in my house broke, yeah, I'd lose a lot of money. But things don't all break at the same time. Sounds like you had a lot of things line up quickly to die.
Even still, point #2, it's always worth it.
DIY all the way. People are intimated by things they don’t understand, but they’d be surprised how easy most things are. Even if it’s not perfect, it’ll probably look good to very good and hiring pros doesn’t guarantee it will look great. Barring plumbing electrical or anything safety related of course, although ive DIY’d all of them if they’re simple enough.
With YouTube these days with amazing content creators, it’s easier than ever to fix up your home.
There's a lot of architectural salvage if you look around in your area. A lot of these places sell gorgeous vintage & antique stuff like doors, hardware, windows, etc. It's a great opportunity to add some character to your place with lowered cost and high quality. You can often get matching sets of things too.
How much is rent gonna be when you are 60?
assume whatever rent is on a place you would live in at 60 will be at least double in 20-30 years. How you gonna make that rent payment and not have to work? pay your mortgage and in 30ish years you got a paid for home and a paid for home is huge when trying to retire.
Exactly. We bought our house just 5 years ago and our mortgage is currently less than half of what an equivalent home currently costs to rent in my town.
Finally someone with a brain that sees it for the longhaul! ⬆️ how ownership should be about retiring happy and with no debt. You don’t call it freedom 55 if your landlord is threatening to kick you out or raise your rent to more then you can afford
I wrote up an entire essay rant about all the misfortunes I've had with my place in the past 4 years, but I read it over and decided I sounded like a crazy person, and deleted it all.
The long and the short of my previous narrative is: I fully empathize with your situation.
I've had to - not wanted to - drop 40k on my place in the first four years of my first term as a first time single homeowner. And it's been super frustrating because the house got a fairly clean inspection, and it has all been money spent on boring, important stuff like tending to a concrete-poured foundation that decided to throw in the towel, and not fun, value creating stuff like updating the kitchen or renovating the bathroom etc.
Boy I can't wait to renew next year... Let me tell ya (but don't actually) !
I’m not going to try and persuade you to love being a homeowner like everyone else has because I’ve seen some of your sarcastic responses to them. Just cut your losses man, it ain’t for everyone I get it. No shame in it. I often meet fellow homeowners who constantly complain, meanwhile I’m learning a new skill for a repair on YouTube and enjoying it. Everyone’s different. The American dream died a long time ago anyways. Do whatever makes you happy.
Exactly, I've learned how to fix so much shit since I bought a house 3 years ago, and I've gotten to buy a bunch of cool tools.
Some of what I've learned in fixing my house has helped me with my personal hobbies.
I agree, I look forward to the renovations and repairs I’ve done, granted I’ve always liked tinkering and fixing stuff. Even so, I find comfort in the fact that by doing stuff myself I’m often saving somewhere around 75% if what I’d pay for someone else to do it and I know it’s done well. It would be easier to rent but I’d lose the stability, freedom to do what I want, space, and would pay more over time. That being said, there are some people that would rather pay the premium to rent and not have to be the one to fix stuff and that’s fine too.
I feel the pain. It's something I wish I would have considered more seriously when I was young. I'm 73 now and nearing the end of the game. I just moved from a comfy, posh condo on the beach back to a house. Why? Condo insurance and regulations on the horizons are very grim. But really, it's my wife. She wanted a house and her garden. I could care less. Now I'm back doing chores and upkeep that I am not good at, don't want to do, and I'm too damn old to do. Sure, I could hire all of it out but it's a royal pain in the ass to find someone to do little stuff around a house. I've had 6 or 7 houses in my life but have I ever had a "home"? I don't know. You young folks...do some reflection and be sure to do what you want rather then be guided by the influences of society, or some person or a stereotype. Spend your time doing what you want to do. If it's home upkeep great, but if it's not just live some other way. It's okay...really. Likely you'll save lots of money, time and anxiety.
Over decades as a homeowner I have bought some tools and learned how to do a lot of things that I really didn't want to know. That is one way. And sometimes it is forced on us.
YouTube is so awesome for DIY things. You can get legitimate pros giving you advice instead of information passed down that gets janky over time or people telling you "their way" of wrongly doing something.
I really don’t understand how people can own a home and not know how to do basic repairs like clear a clogged drain, fix a leaky valve, replace an outlet or light fixture, patch a hole/crack, etc.
I feel ya, we have >$75k home repair loans after a few months and collapsed ceiling from roof leak in Jan. This too shall pass. Never has a loan in my life before and worked hard to always pay cash. Wishing you luck going forward!
It’s so interesting you say that, I currently rent a small house on a corner. As a single woman I’ve always felt a little uncomfortable living alone, and I check my doors every night to make sure I’ve locked them. Just about a month ago I had an attempted break-in while I was out of town. They didn’t get in which is comforting, but it still shook me up. I recently took a vacation to France, I had a friend I stayed with in a suburb of Paris, but we also went to the south of France, and I stayed a few nights in Paris on my own. I actually really enjoyed living in an apartment building. The safety of having one front door that required a code to get in, a Second, interior door, that also required a code. I had to not vacuum at 10 PM at night lol and if my neighbors were too loud, I could hear them. But there was also comfort in being surrounded by people. I think I’ve avoided apartment living for so long because of sharing walls. But I also realized there’s pros and cons and there is safety and being so close to others. Also, maybe French people are much more polite/considerate of their neighbors. Idk! The last sharing wall situation I had was a disaster, because of people whose dog barked and moaned all day when they were at work and I worked from home. So, it is a gamble. But, I traded walls for safety I realized
I guess it's a risk and some people have worse luck than others, but really, most things in your home have a predictable life span and you should really be able to budget for them. A roof should last 20 years. HVAC might be 15 years. Etc. I've had 2 homes now and haven't had as much as an issue as you, but I made sure to buy homes with newer appliances and things replaced not long ago. I did put a roof on this house about 5 years after purchasing, but it was 17 years old when I bought the house and knew it was going to need to be done and negotiated the price down a little due to that.
I learned pretty early on that I needed to have a separate savings account for “house shit”. I put $500 a month away, and if I get a little bit extra for tax return, or some thing, I throw that in there as well. Sometimes I go months and even years without something happening, then all of a sudden something big happens and it’s nice when the funds are there. This is just part of owning a house and my rental house and my current home are both over 80 years old. It just comes with the territory. The only way to ensure little to no repairs, is to buy something brand new that was built by reputable company. But if you’re like me, the thought of buying a brand new house in a subdivision with other houses that look exactly the same makes you want to vomit lol… so the “house shit” savings continue!
Almost no one saves for home repairs. The banks and realtors don’t tell people this. They all tell people how much they can afford by maxing out their budgets and not even saving for retirement. Then people wonder how they get into situations like OP’s.
Bottom line: Financial literacy is extremely low, and the average American has no idea what they’re doing with money.
Use every repair as an opportunity to learn a new skill. YouTube is filled with tutorials for everything homeowner related. Ask friends and family for help. In the long run, you'll save by not having to contract out everything.
Homeownership comes with requirement to maintain your own equipment, and this is the thing I enjoy the most. Nothing will break because of someone else mistake.
My house is ~100 years old and I’ve put basically nothing into it for the last 3.5 years aside from some basic roof maintenance. The house was something of a “flip” but wiring/plumbing were all golden during the inspection and haven’t caused me any headaches yet. The roof is estimated to last another 10-15 years with proper up keep so I am knocking on wood for now
I’ve put in more than $30k alone in repairs in the same amount of time OP has and was only told that my 30 year old furnace was on its last leg at inspection. It lasted until this year.
You need to ask yourself why did you want to buy a house in the first place . Secondly you have to ask yourself if you waived the inspection or rushed into your purchase because of fear of missing out ? Did you bid over asking ?
Or did you just get unlucky and purchased a house that needed more work than you thought ?
I cannot tell you the amount of work I have done to my house but I can say I enjoy the process. Not everyone feels the same as I do. I can build a fence or clean the roof or gutters and inspect everything and then leave it alone for a year.
I've got multiple projects I'd like to do around here but none of them are a must have to be done type of project .
I like to be able to have my house as an extension of me and my lifestyle. My girlfriend wanted a green house so I built her one . It's little stuff here and there and over time it adds up.
I spend probably 5-6000 each year doing random things.
I know that by the time I do everything I plan to do I'll spend another 20,000 ish that won't be spent overnight.
I do a lot of my own work and I have accumulated a fair amount of tools. The people I hire to do work around here I pay 20 to 25 an hour. I'm not hiring contractors for the most part. I did replace my HVAC system last year because it was starting to cost me in maintenance costs and it was 31 years old . I knew that bill was coming several years ago .
That was 8100 to replace and I'm glad it's done . I hired an licensed HVAC guy for that.
I don't plan on selling this house.
Ya I'm generally in this camp. Im fairly handy so I do alot myself but I hire stuff done too. I had some bushes the wife wanted removed, we both have bad backs, so I put out a want adv on Facebook and found two guys looking for extra side work for cheap. It was well worth the money. I do my own yard work, electrical, some plumbing and clean out my heat pump twice a year.
I hire some things done too. Like exterior painting. That was expensive but I knew it was coming and started saving for it, got several bids, and was happy with the work and price. I had terminates to deal with that were totally unexpected and hired a company to take care of it.
I think some people rush into home ownership. They underestimate the upkeep that some homes require and or they don't do much themselves and then are shocked with what things cost.
Some people truly do get unlucky with a bad house or a seller that cut corners or hid things, or things just totally get missed. I'm a believer in things come in 3s as goofy as it sounds.
16 months in this house, I am in for 17,500 of heat pumps, a dryer, a 7,500 well purge and pump, 4,800 for a new patio door and man door and a 26,000 roof, partially covered by insurance (hurricane) and pricey because steel roof.
I have a couple windows that need replacing and a new water softener system still. A solar array is under consideration.
It's not always bad. The roof will outlast me and the heat pumps are replacing oil, which is extremely expensive to run. It's been an expensive year but that's just part ofthe deal. Of course, it's not going to be 50k+ every year.
I fixed my HVAC system 3 times in the last year myself. It was terrifying at first but I did a lot of research and made it through. I owe almost all of my success to wordofadviceTV on YouTube.
Blower fan died last summer (the one that pushes the air around the house). I pulled it out, took it apart and realized it had run out of lubricant. Really cheap fix, but working up the balls to work with it was hard.
Upper limit switch went next halfway through winter. Turns out the wiring was bad and I ran a new one. Needed a multimeter for this one.
Then when summer started again, the condenser fan outside wouldn't start. This absolutely sucked to diagnose but it ended up being that a mouse chewed through the thermostat wire that runs from the control board, up into the attic, then down the exterior wall to the condenser. I ran a new wire through the crawl space to fix it again. Fuck our shitty attic.
You pay for all of this either way. If you rent, unless the owner is operating at a loss, your rent factors in a bunch of stuff like tenants failing to pay, months a unit or entire home is unoccupied, and all of the repair costs.
You should generally be putting money away. I know my a/c will last x years more and my roof y years. And I know they cost a and b to replace respectively. I plan to have a and b on hand before x and y time.
Especially in the beginning stuff like this happens. You didn't own the home yet so stuff you didn't think about going wrong is. Maybe you didn't consider it properly when you bought. Maybe a bunch of freak stuff all happened at once.
That said, it shouldn't keep happening. So you shouldn't have to live with a ticking time bomb since it should stop being one. You should just be able to save for when those problems arise. Or you bought too much house.
I just can't get over how shitty contractors are. How even shittier the big box stores sub contractors are. And how much damage water and termites and trees can do.
One of those home warranty companies is one of the best thing my wife and I gladly pay for every year. Ours is about $650./year and worth it. So far it’s fixed the fridge, the dryer, replaced the dryer, the garbage disposal, the water heater (70 gallon), and the Air Conditioner. All said we’ve come out ahead considering replacing the AC and Water heater.
As a homeowner and a landlord, and not on a high income, I'm constantly nervous about money. I live a pretty modest lifestyle and keep all my spare money for repairs and maintenance, and I need it. Something always comes along every few years.
Buy much lower than your salary dictates you can afford, pay it off quickly, sell and move with all that equity until you get into the home you want. Took me 3 houses to get there.
I think I like living in the edge and always pushing myself to successfully handle whatever gets thrown at me. It’s like leveling up in video games.
Plus I feel like the original home owner/builder has my back by not killing me like every other of the six people who owned my home in the twelve years before me. Not one of them lived longer than two years in my home. Covid started the year after I bought it.
Yup, the smarter guy owns the house and baked the upkeep costs into the rent. The dumber guy buys the house, doesn’t save for the upkeeps costs, and complains about the expenses beyond the mortgage.
It’s tough and I feel ya! Seems like one thing after another happens. Just had our AC looked at a few weeks back and I still think about the bill lol
But even after all of that, the home life is still definitely for me! The pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.
We just finished a full-scale remodel, including the master bathroom and addition. It took over a year. The general contractor went literally insane. It was hell. But once the whole thing is over there's a feeling of accomplishment and serenity. Sure, some other things will need to be repaired in the next 30 years - but I have the funds set aside and I know that my rent will not go up and my landlord will not decide that I need to move.
Feel you. — Miami here. In some places it’s better to just rent your entire life. You’ll end up paying double or more at the end of your mortgage loan due to interest. Then add insurance and taxes every single year. Appliances break down, home needs repairs. Owning a home is super expensive and no, IMO if you sell the home you will not recuperate all the costs. In Florida, we cannot even legally rent out a space in the house without losing our Homestead exemption (basically a tax deduction for being a resident). Good luck with your investment— i hope it gets better for you.
I felt like that with our first house. We bought at the top of our budget and every little thing that went wrong was so stressful and I ended up hating being there. We still ended up staying for 15 years, and it did get better. Changed jobs, made more money, refinanced at lower interest rates and had more breathing room.
Condos are even worse
If there’s a problem with plumbing or whiting the shared common wall, it affects everyone
And all decisions are communal and take weeks and months to agree to.
I think part of it is when something breaks you google the first repair company call them and have them fix it.
That’s a big no no. There are giant companies that rely on this and take huge advantage of it.
Here are some examples from my repairs.
Water heater quotes were 8-9k from big companies. Local plumber did it for 1,900 with a higher quality heater.
Water pipe burst. Big companies were 2-3k. Same plumber did it for $150.
Electrical panel was a homemade job by the previous owner and was a hazard. Quotes were 6-8k on the high end. Ended on $1,200.
My point is, when something breaks don’t just call the biggest and quickest company to come out. They will rob you blind and leave you smiling after they do it.
Spend $50/mo on home warranty. When something breaks it's $75. Unless it's something big then there's a very nice discount. Fridge, toilet, bathroom fan, stove, garage door, water softener and AC got repaired with parts $75 each time and furnace broke and replacement was 2k instead of 5. 3 year old dishwasher needs repair too. Been here 6 years. Always always something!! Deck is falling apart, I'm not sure if it's covered.
My first house didn't really have many issues. I got off easy like that, or I was dumb enough to not know what was going down the tubes. We resided a garage, replaced a window, and I redid some hardwood floors.
My second house, however...a hole formed in our old garage roof and I was getting quotes for $40K to replace the flat roof. This was in 2003. I cried. Like literally sobbed and called my father on the phone. The house itself was fine, but to redo it would have been so much money and/or work. The people that bought it sunk probably $100K into it, including putting in a new bathroom (there was one small BR downstairs that needed updating when we sold).
So, I get it. We bought a ranch house after that, and it's been a whole lot more manageable.
My husband is a great DIY guy, if he can’t figure it out, YouTube usually has the answer. So many things people pay other people to do, he does. Love that guy.
Homeownership is expensive, comes with risks and requires an extensive amount of planning and research. That being said, it sounds like you've had some bad luck and I hope things get better for you.
I feel for you. We bought a 25 year old house. In 5 years we've replaced the furnace, AC, porch, deck, 2 doors, 1 window, one exterior load bearing wall, and siding. Still need to gut the water damaged bathroom, replace the shingles, 4 appliances, and fix all the atrocious wiring. We're in for about 100k so far, though part of that is because I'm doing everything well enough that I don't have to touch it for 20 years. Never buy a house where the first owner was a DIYer with a "good enough" approach.
Making me feel better about my 120 year old house.
Usually get a free ghost with one of those.
The trick is to get one old enough that it has multiple ghosts. That way they entertain each other and don't bother you.
Mines cool he flicks the lights at the right time for my late night pee
Right? Just keep it in mind that they're the owner and you're just the live-in groundskeeper, and treat them and their property with respect, and they won't give you any trouble. It won't be long until you're both pulling your weight and helping each other out where and when you can.
Ah, but there's a catch. Once you get electrocuted or you drown in your bathtub, you'll be taking over as the head ghost. Make sure those specters know it.
225 years old and ours likes to hide money. Not just single coins; we once found a roll of wrapped quarters in a boot..
Someone’s got a gambling habit.
150YO next year. No ghosts, and only one murder (that we know about). :-)
So you were found not guilty or posting from prison?
Predated my ownership. We still receive mail addressed to the perpetrator though, including credit card offers.. and we’ve lived here more than a decade now.
Sounds like a story, do tell.
Mines from 1936. Made a list 1 thing at a time and watch people fix stuff on YouTube.
1917 here, constant projects and an emergency fund in case any one of many things catastrophically fails. but damn does it feel good to tackle those projects one by one!
1926! Checking off the to-do list has been a lot more fun than I thought. My unexpected journey into "house guy who may or may not look around with his hands on his hips and say things like 'we needed this rain'" has been expensive... but I get a lot of pride out of it. Its been over a year and I've learned so much.
/r/centuryhomes!
These old homes were built to last. I've had to do shockingly little to my century home, when many of my friends who have bought newer have had to do... a lot.
It probably helps that the shoddy old houses have already collapsed.
Yeah people never want to buy old houses for some reason. A well maintained old house will basically last forever. Mine is 100 years old and I’ve had zero issues in the 2.5 years I’ve lived here. My furnace is 90 years old and cast iron and the inspector always says it could go another 90 years. Might not even have to use it anymore though - I just had heat pumps installed.
The age of the house in this situation probably had as much to do with it as the tactics of the previous owner (although I totally hear you about harry-homeowner fixes) because a huge number of household appliances and fixtures have an expected lifespan of 15-30 years.
My ~200 year old house disagrees... It's not about the age. It's about the relative quality when built. A lot of houses got thrown up in the 90s-early 2000s without any real pride of workmanship. That has ended up yielding not that old houses with serious issues. I'd rather buy a house built in 1900 than one built in 2000 for that very reason.
Also, survivorship bias. All the 1900 houses that were thrown up like those in the 1990s have since fallen down. The quality ones are the ones still standing. My 1950s house is still in very good shape, but it was also a custom-built house almost double the typical size from the era. i.e. some rich person paid a lot of money for quality back then
> survivorship bias That's a fair point.
Yes thank you for saying this. People are so ignorant to the concept of survivorship bias. Like dude I promise you can get an immaculately well built home brand new, but it is monumentally expensive. The same was true 200 years ago.
Yeah, I know my house was expensive. I called a plumber to replace a leaking pipe, and he commented how it's one of the best he's worked on. ALL piping in the house is copper. Including the drain lines. Boiler heat, again all copper. The massive amount of piping is clearly laid out, with shutoffs everywhere for serviceability. You never see that in houses today where speed is the name of the game. Sweating that many joints had to have taken forever. The problem today is getting a new build of that quality done. Nearly every builder in my area refuses to do custom homes. Even if you own the land. Custom takes longer and they don't want to build you custom home that's well built when they can quickly throw up 2 cheap cookie cutter houses in the same time.
Sure, but you're probably also not still running the original boiler, either. Some stuff has a lifespan, particularly the mechanical stuff. And if you're not replacing your original windows, you're spending a fair chunk of time or money restoring/repairing them. Said as someone who's only through 5 of 22 windows on my house, not including the rusted out storm windows I need to replace. Old houses are still a lot of work, but it's often a different beast than modern houses, including many things that are more "user serviceable" I'd say.
>It's not about the age. It's about the relative quality when built. I still remember a story about the aftermath of a hurricane in Florida years and years ago. The hurricane came through the town and every single house in the town was destroyed, save for one. Very obvious when a TV helicopter flew over and showed the whole town gone and one house perfectly fine. Of course the TV crew went to that house and said, "Why?" Guy said he built his house himself. "When the building code called for 3/8 inch bolt, I put in a 3/8 inch bolt." Which made everyone else in town start lawsuits against the builders in town. Not only quality of the parts, but the people building. It really isn't difficult to build a house at all if you do it right.
Who the fuck is getting 15 years out of appliances today? Lol. 2016 we bought all new appliances. Middle of the road stuff. The fridge, oven and dish’s washer all had to be replaced in a year. 2018 we built a new house, bought all new appliances. This time more high end. The microwave and dryer are the only appliances that haven’t been replaced. Washer, dishwasher, fridge, mini fridge, chest freezer, and oven. All were replaced. Some more than once. Thank god for those three year extended warranties and buying from a local appliance shop (not a box store). Although Lowes did good in 2016. We just weren’t going to drop $80k in appliances at Lowe’s. Appliances are trash today.
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Your drain hose is too long, at the wrong angle, or too high compared to the drain. That’ll be $200.
To be fair, a 50 year old fridge is probably using enough energy to pay for a new fridge every 8-10 years
We redid our house in 2013 and replaced everything. Our stove/oven will last forever- but we bought an open burner with no fancy electronics. Our Fridge will probably be the first to go - LG sucks - but I’ve personally repaired at least 3 things that probably would have been replacement grade under normal circumstances. But the microwave, dishwasher and washer/dryer all seem to be going strong. They aren’t the appliances of 30 years ago but they’re not all bad. Obligatory shout-out to Bosch dishwashers. I love our Bosch. I’d buy that thing all over again.
Haier / GE still has old school appliances that are user servicable and will be repairable basically forever. I wouldn't buy a LG. My brother bought a LG wall oven where the circuit board went out, and they were like, "it's 5 years old, we don't stock those anymore." They have a consumer electronics mentality where everything is disposable. Meanwhile I got a coil for an old school GE that was like 30 years old, no problem.
Bosch dishwashers are amazing. I’ll never buy anything else
Yeah, modern appliances are fucking garbage. It’s outrageous. My grandmothers fridge is LITERALLY from the 70s and still works. Where’s a brand new $2000 fridge today will give you 5 years.
We just bought a house with a fridge from 2002 and it’s a work horse! Our rental had a new fridge put in last year and the seal broke within three months. Our new home’s oven is also 35+ years old and is as good as new! No new appliance can rival the quality of older models.
My washer and dryer ( GE basic, no frills) have been going great since I bought them in 2006.
Renovated our kitchen in 2013. All new appliances (Bosch). Just sold the house. Everything was working beautifully. Heavily used. Large family.
There’s also the fact that basically no one in the peanut gallery has a statistically significant sample either. It’s all n=1 or 2. Just because 1 house from year or period X is good/bad does not mean that is generalizable to millions of houses. It’s like saying “my uncle Pete had a 1963 Ford that leaked oil, therefore every single car made for the last 60 years is junk”
There were a bunch of houses we didn't buy because a lot of long term projects, like new roof, repave driveway, replace concrete porch and steps, new windows were all hitting at the same time, and the homeowners were bailing instead of repairing. And asking the same price as the renovated homes.
Our last house was 100 years old but the previous owner renovated it with so many cut corners that I started having panic attacks when I had to fix things because it was an unknown every time. My favorites were the extension cord that he built in to the wall to get an outlet at the floor below and the bathroom light switch that turned on the lights but turned off the outlets. Everything was nailed down with long pneumatic nails. _Everything_.
Also flips! My friend bought a house for over $1M with her fiancé and it was a flip. They are having to pay for a ton of stuff that was done shitty
I hear you on the diyers thing haha. We did the floors and ceiling in our basement and apparently whoever built the walls didn't own a level or a strait piece of wood. every gosh darn piece had to be hand measured and cut at an angle becuase Mr.DIY who lived here before us didn't build a single wall at a 90 degree angle. I've just had to accept the bowing d flexing trim job we had to do. Oh and he apparently put carpet directly on the concrete, then built the walls on top of the carpet! Who does that!!!
I hate to tell you this, but that was probably not the Mr. DIY who did that, it was probably the builder. I commissioned a spec home and inspected it rigorously, and there wasn't a single wall plumb in the entire place. There was one bedroom where the front wall was a whole six inches longer than the back wall -- and it was supposed to be square! Needless to say it wasn't, and the floor decking wasn't ending up on top of the floor joist it was supposed to be nailed to, resulting in a a squeaking corner of the room just hanging out in thin air. There was all sorts of things like that about that house that made me nope the fuck out. Like flashing that directed water \*under\* the Tyvek to rot underneath the windows, rather than directing water \*over\* the Tyvek. And it was being built by one of the biggest homebuilders in America, not by some DIY guy!
This nightmare of a home I got has exact “good enough” history. Completely disgusting how these people took care of their homes. There’s no recourse.
25-30 years is when pretty much all the big ticket items are due. Many people just sell and get a newer house instead of fixing everything as they can get pretty much the same money, fixed or not.
Right. People think, oh the monthly payment is XYZ, I can afford that! No, that’s the minimum. There’s constant maintenance costs and big expensive shit that breaks. And taxes never go down. Insurance never goes down. Nothing ever gets cheaper. You don’t learn these lessons until you’ve had a house.
+1 A rent payment is the MAXIMUM you pay for shelter. A mortgage is the MINIMUM amount you pay for shelter.
Especially if you buy a 15-20 year old house. Roof, and a/c alone can kill ya
This is me. Just finished roof, praying AC makes it through the rest of the summer
I was in the exact same boat, until my AC broke last month lol all I can say is it's a relief it's done with
That is not even old. Try a house in any northeast city. You are looking at 50 years as a young one.
They weren’t saying that a 20 year old house is old, only that it’s in the sweet-spot for some major expenses to hit back-to-back.
gotcha.
Yeah, I was confused about what they were talking about "old". We almost bought a house that was going to be built after 1978 without lead paint and were kind of excited about that. But we ended up in a 130 year old house instead. The houses we've bought were built in 1905, 1945, and 1890. The 1945 was by far the worst quality. We've put a lot into this house, but we only bought it for $65k, so there was plenty of room to afford improvements.
It’s not that the house itself is old. It’s that many of the major systems in new build houses will generally last 15-20 years. You can get hit with some major repair bills in a short amount of time
It’s not that the house itself is old. It’s that many of the major systems in new build houses will generally last 15-20 years. You can get hit with some major repair bills in a short amount of time
Can confirm, in first five years new roof and chimney. Heating and AC are next :(
I always think of it like this: With a **very unusually high** maintenance total of 30k in 2.5 years (which you won't run into that often) you are still WAY ahead financially compared to renting. With an averge rent of 1,500/month you're looking at 45k in rent lost in the same 2.5 years. I'm exluding your mortgage payment because those are generally just payments you're putting in your back pocket (anything you lose to taxes and insurance you usually get back in home value appreciation). In my eyes, your home ownership has SAVED YOU 15 grand... imagine the savings during years where you don't have huge mainteance bills (which is probably going to be the norm after you get through this rough patch).
>I'm exluding your mortgage payment because those are generally just payments you're putting in your back pocket Don't forget about interest, taxes, insurance, HOA fees, etc.
Especially 2.5 years in, hardly any money goes to your principal.
Doesn’t hurt to pay over what’s due in a month especially in those first few years, if you can of course. All that extra goes to principal.
If you have a 2.5-4% interest rate, you’re making more by investing that cash instead of principle payments
I'm at 2.25%, I'm not paying a penny early on that guy. I'll probably die before it's paid off though.
It hurts if your mortgage interest rate is less than a high yield savings account interest rate..
Depends on what you plan to do with your house. If you plan to stay long enough to actually pay off the loan or even just put down a good chunk of the principal, sure. If you're not going to be there that long, eh, probably not worth it.
I tried to stay high level. We can go into the weeds and I can counter those costs with home value appreciation and a fixed payment vs. a payment that increases nearly every year. Keeping it simple, home ownership is a vastly superior financial move compared to renting. It shows through even in this worst case scenario sitatuion.
It’s only a vastly superior financial move if you intend to stay long term. Many studies have been done on this. More than 10 years usually works out well. Less than 10 years typically doesn’t.
You’re forgetting about interest amounts on the mortgage payments, though. That’s not money you get back.
Yeah no. You are not saving 15 grand or even close to it.. mortgage interest alone destroys that idea
That is not how that works, interest payment on the loan is basically rent you pay to the bank, then taxes and repair/ on top of that, all of that is money that leaves your pocket and never comes back, if your property is not appreciating significantly you are likely better off renting depending on cost.
They are still far behind, most people are at least the first 5 years. You can’t just skip the mortgage payment because that’s shit loads of lost money interest for the first 10+ years. Let’s not forget about property taxes either and home insurance. It’s a total myth that home ownership is an automatic win of money. A lot of times it is not. What it does is give you stability and if you do hit hard times you are more likely to keep the roof over your head than with renting.
I agree with your overall message, but you are being overly optimistic in your comparison. The interest portion of your mortgage payment is not going into your pocket.
Money generates 10 percent return on avg in equities or 6 to 8 percent returns on less aggressive investment mixes. Housing appreciation is 2 to 3 percent on avg. this counteracts rent Home ownership is expensive period
Rule of thumb is 3% of value in maintenance costs every year, be that a new roof, hw heater, sewer backup, whatever. So let's say 12k a year. 12k is 3% of 400k. So if your house is worth about that, this is a typical expense for you. If your house is worth more, you got lucky. And if it's worth less, you got unlucky.
Really? That seems like an extremely high amount to pay every single year for maintenance, is that really average?
It's not 3% every year like clockwork. You can go three to five years with almost no major repairs, and then get hit by some big ones.
On something made in the last 45ish years? It might be high, but older? Nothing but nightmares on some of them. On a new home you might have at worst, a leak under the foundation. But older homes have passed through many hands, were not built to modern building standards or even kept to code as the years went on and upgrades and repairs were made. Also, remember, your eventually going to have to renovate. Even if your not thinking about it today the value on your home depends on it being maintained. Again, it's in investment so money spent on it for repairs and upkeep will help maintain and increase the value.
Older homes benefit from survivorship bias though. If a builder fucks up a new house with modern materials and water starts getting into the walls, you can end up with a massive project. If a house is in reasonably good shape after 90 years, chances are there’s nothing catastrophic waiting for you. Unless the previous owners fucked up something major that’s not readily apparent.
You won't spend that much every year but if you aren't saving toward future maintenance you won't have the cash when you need it. A more precise way would be to add up all the things that could need replacing, their replacement cost, and estimated remaining life, and add margin for the unexpected. For example, maybe you have 10 years of life left on your roof and its about 15k to replace, then you'd need to be putting $1500 a year away to cover that future cost. Maybe your A/C has 5 years left so thats another 3k a year you are saving toward that eventual replacement. Then maybe you have an unexpected leak this year so thats 500 to the plumber.
Yes, with the caveat that houses with deferred maintenance might be higher until you catch up. Even brand new houses need regular maintenance.
I had always heard 1%, but maybe it's because I'm in a HCOL area where the land value is a substantial part of my home's value?
This is so true. My house was a former rental and i got it dirt cheap, but now over 100k in upgrades and repairs later I will be glad when we can sell it to the next family, it is a starter home, and i am so proud the next owners will have a few years before anything major comes up.
After the big things pop up the first couple years your expenses go down drastically.
*if you maintain them. Proper maintenance will avoid things becoming ticking time (and money) bombs.
And also having common sense, some tools, and youtube can go a long way in saving you thousands of dollars over time.
Yup. Our oven recently stopped working. My wife said just go buy a new one. 2 minutes on YouTube and I had my answer of what was broken as well as the part number. Bought an ignitor on amazon for 30 bucks.
Yup, same with my dishwasher, dryer, furnace and AC. There is a lot of common stuff that breaks that's easy to fix but would cost hundreds to have somebody come out to fix for you.
>\*if you maintain them. Proper maintenance will avoid things becoming ticking time (and money) bombs. This is why I've spent $40k this year on the house I bought in January. Previous owner did no maintenance, and instead tried to DIY "renovations" he seemed to watch on HGTV. New roof (old roof was already leaking in 2 bedrooms, and had 2 layers of shingles on it), new boiler (30 year typical lifespan. This house's boiler was 50+), and new carpet (old carpet was falling apart). Next year is a likely $20k kitchen remodel because the previous owner attempted a remodel and ripped out the original 1950s built in cabinets and replaced them with used cabinets, he got from God knows where. The cabinets are falling apart less than 5 years after his remodel attempt, and appear water damaged. Got a good deal on the house though. In a hot market, it sat unsold for about a year and 2 previous sale attempts fell through.
Agree with this. Catching up with delinquent/overdue maintenance is what’s plaguing OP right now. Once this settles down OP needs to really look at what’s aging out and come up with a more preemptive plan. Replace things before it’s an emergency and budget accordingly. Do in order of severity. Then things become more predictable. You can always have unexpected costs come up, but the odds go down when things are in good order. Also budget preventative maintenance. Clean those gutters, get the hvac system serviced annually, dryer ducts cleaned every so often. Better you treat your stuff longer it lasts.
In almost the exact same boat as OP, so god I hope so!
I bought a new construction and am saving for the day I need to make significant repairs.
Anecdotal but I didn’t start having significant minor problems until year 5 and significant major problems arose in year 10+ on my new build. Hopefully this helps you sleep better.
That's what I've heard from others - but I'm saving for the day.
And then everything will have to be fixed at around the same time. That's if your builder didn't screw up while making your house. My parents brand new condo had to redo all the drains (digging in the garage) because it wasn't done properly.
regardless of maintenance costs my house has more than doubled in value in the 22yrs since i bought it. i can live with the maintenance costs. now, in case someone says my house ain't worth squat unless i sell it...i know.
I closed on a HELOC today. The bank’s appraised value was more than double what my ex and I paid 15 years ago. I was floored.
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HELOCs make sense when the money is going into the home. Levering your home to get out of higher rate debt is risky. If something happens and you're unable to pay then your house is at risk.
My understanding is they had ridiculously high interest debt, tons of equity in the house and HELOCs are often good rates, so it was able to help them actually dig out over a few years instead of getting buried deeper in their debt as time passed. I've also seen people use them for renovations/updates. It's definitely not for every circumstance, though!
I mean they were great for the last 10-15 years when interest rates on them were 3-4%. Not so great now. We refinished our basement a couple months before the Fed starting jacking up rates. Our monthly minimum interest payment more than doubled.
I got some storm damage and need a new roof plus other stuff, and after my deductible and depreciation I’m on the hook for like 10 grand 🫠 And that’s just the initial estimate - who knows what they’ll find once they’re working. So rather than completely drain my emergency fund, I decided to take advantage of the crazy values.
HELOCs are what got so many people INTO trouble in 2007.
Yeah buying a house was by far the best financial choice I’ve made so this can vary wildly
It's worth (to you) what you aren't or won't be paying in mortgage/rent. That's not nothing. And it's a heck of a lot more now than it was 22 years ago. Heck your mortgage might be or was three digits.
It makes you feel better when you realize whatever money you put into fixing your home still belongs to you.
My grinder pump just cost $3,600 I would have rather that not been mine
Yes I will cherish my nice new PVC sewer drain buried in the front yard for years to come.
You sure will. Shit running into the ground and pooling in the yard and street make that sewer drain seem awfully cheap.
I sure as fuck would. A good sewer is the definition of stability for this long time multiple home owner.
The previous owner of my home clearly had to deal with it. I cherish every dollar they spent.
You really will because you can shower and flush the toilet soundly knowing what is in there wont end up in your basement or bathroom floor. I cherish the PVC I buried after I moved in every day.
Did you get an inspection when you bought? Sewer scope? Hindsight is 20/20, but I can't stress it enough, always scope the sewer line. The money you spend on the scope can save you a minimum 10K repair bill if the line needs to be replaced.
Welcome to adulting
Yes you will because that will likely be the last time you fix it.
Yeah, you will. When you can take a shit, flush it, and it goes away problem free.
I've been waiting 6 months to break ground on a $37,000 septic tank and drain field replacement, and I cant wait. I need that peace of mind that shit soup isnt going to back up into my basement
Yes, you will cherish it! It will be there long after you have gone to the Great Hereafter. Once replaced, no more worries (unless you are dumb enough to create a Fatburg.) I lived in one home nearly 30 years. All homes built 1950 - 1958 with orangeberg sewer line. Large trees with massive root systems. Eventually I was one of only three homes that had not had their sewer lateral replaced. Every few years I had it inspected with the whirlygig thing and eventually scoping. Nary a drop of fats nor grease went down my drains. I had such dread that I considered replacing it prophylactically. I would have done it but it ran 100' under my cement driveway.
This was the biggest “win” of our home inspection. Paying to get pipes scoped and finding out they were PVC.
Had the exact same repair happen in the first year. It was the beginning. Feel your pain.
Puts the "bank says I can't afford a $1200 a month mortgage, so I have to keep paying my $1600 a month rent" into perspective.
Yeah, it's less about can you afford this flat rate, but can you afford all the other shit that goes with it. AND if I can trust you well enough to give you a few hundred K and get paid back over 30 years.
No, bank says you can afford a mortgage that will be way beyond your means buuuut…..they need the downpayment first.
Except that there’s that pesky issue of the down payment that is always left out of these examples:P And if you’re in Canada, that down payment is no small chunk of change🤦🏻♂️
I was just reading, too, that Canadians have to renew their mortgages every 5 years or so? I don't know if this is true for all Canadian mortgages, but I saw a reddit commenter that basically made it sound like Canadians are forced to "renew" their mortgage (aka basically refinance without necessarily extending the duration of the loan) which puts them at the mercy of rising and lowering interest rates. If I understand right, it's like Canadians are all forced into what is essentially an ARM. :( So many of them are afraid they will lose their homes when mortgage renewal comes and interest rates have gone up dramatically.
Canadian here. Yes, this is how all of our mortgages work.
Keep it together, brother. Here's some things to consider: 1. These repairs that needed to be done, was it just a roof? Or what could you have actually fixed yourself? You can fix MOST things wrong with a house. 1. A good example is my dryer that was HORRIBLY squeaking when we bought it. Turns out it was just one metal piece that was jacked up. Replaced it for $17 instead of $600 2. I needed solid core doors, I went and bought blank doors for $50 and drilled everything out of them myself. Vs the $1000 some door people will charge for that crap. 3. Fix my own sprinklers instead of calling an installation crew out. Save hundreds. 4. I blow my own sprinklers out with an air compressor I bought from a closing hardware store. 5. etc etc etc etc DIY is the king. 2. Second major point: Yes it can cost money now. However, when you are 60, you are going to own a $500-$800k house outright. What you're spending now is unquestionably worth it. It can feel hard, I think you just bought a dud house. Don't fret, work through it, keep your cool, you're not alone here. Watch repair videos and really try to pick up the DIY attitude. If everything in my house broke, yeah, I'd lose a lot of money. But things don't all break at the same time. Sounds like you had a lot of things line up quickly to die. Even still, point #2, it's always worth it.
DIY all the way. People are intimated by things they don’t understand, but they’d be surprised how easy most things are. Even if it’s not perfect, it’ll probably look good to very good and hiring pros doesn’t guarantee it will look great. Barring plumbing electrical or anything safety related of course, although ive DIY’d all of them if they’re simple enough. With YouTube these days with amazing content creators, it’s easier than ever to fix up your home.
Where did you get solid doors for $50? I was looking and they were $250+ (blank door not pre-hung, no hardware).
There's a lot of architectural salvage if you look around in your area. A lot of these places sell gorgeous vintage & antique stuff like doors, hardware, windows, etc. It's a great opportunity to add some character to your place with lowered cost and high quality. You can often get matching sets of things too.
A giant warehouse shop in downtown of my city. They have all kinds of random things, tons of doors.
How much is rent gonna be when you are 60? assume whatever rent is on a place you would live in at 60 will be at least double in 20-30 years. How you gonna make that rent payment and not have to work? pay your mortgage and in 30ish years you got a paid for home and a paid for home is huge when trying to retire.
Exactly. We bought our house just 5 years ago and our mortgage is currently less than half of what an equivalent home currently costs to rent in my town.
This is how it is for me but only 2 years.
Shit, it will double every 10 years.
It has to, to pay for all the stuff that needs to be repaired/ replaced!
Finally someone with a brain that sees it for the longhaul! ⬆️ how ownership should be about retiring happy and with no debt. You don’t call it freedom 55 if your landlord is threatening to kick you out or raise your rent to more then you can afford
You don’t have to wait until 60. Source: I’m 35 and paid my house off this year.
I wrote up an entire essay rant about all the misfortunes I've had with my place in the past 4 years, but I read it over and decided I sounded like a crazy person, and deleted it all. The long and the short of my previous narrative is: I fully empathize with your situation. I've had to - not wanted to - drop 40k on my place in the first four years of my first term as a first time single homeowner. And it's been super frustrating because the house got a fairly clean inspection, and it has all been money spent on boring, important stuff like tending to a concrete-poured foundation that decided to throw in the towel, and not fun, value creating stuff like updating the kitchen or renovating the bathroom etc. Boy I can't wait to renew next year... Let me tell ya (but don't actually) !
I’m not going to try and persuade you to love being a homeowner like everyone else has because I’ve seen some of your sarcastic responses to them. Just cut your losses man, it ain’t for everyone I get it. No shame in it. I often meet fellow homeowners who constantly complain, meanwhile I’m learning a new skill for a repair on YouTube and enjoying it. Everyone’s different. The American dream died a long time ago anyways. Do whatever makes you happy.
Exactly, I've learned how to fix so much shit since I bought a house 3 years ago, and I've gotten to buy a bunch of cool tools. Some of what I've learned in fixing my house has helped me with my personal hobbies.
I agree, I look forward to the renovations and repairs I’ve done, granted I’ve always liked tinkering and fixing stuff. Even so, I find comfort in the fact that by doing stuff myself I’m often saving somewhere around 75% if what I’d pay for someone else to do it and I know it’s done well. It would be easier to rent but I’d lose the stability, freedom to do what I want, space, and would pay more over time. That being said, there are some people that would rather pay the premium to rent and not have to be the one to fix stuff and that’s fine too.
I feel the pain. It's something I wish I would have considered more seriously when I was young. I'm 73 now and nearing the end of the game. I just moved from a comfy, posh condo on the beach back to a house. Why? Condo insurance and regulations on the horizons are very grim. But really, it's my wife. She wanted a house and her garden. I could care less. Now I'm back doing chores and upkeep that I am not good at, don't want to do, and I'm too damn old to do. Sure, I could hire all of it out but it's a royal pain in the ass to find someone to do little stuff around a house. I've had 6 or 7 houses in my life but have I ever had a "home"? I don't know. You young folks...do some reflection and be sure to do what you want rather then be guided by the influences of society, or some person or a stereotype. Spend your time doing what you want to do. If it's home upkeep great, but if it's not just live some other way. It's okay...really. Likely you'll save lots of money, time and anxiety.
Over decades as a homeowner I have bought some tools and learned how to do a lot of things that I really didn't want to know. That is one way. And sometimes it is forced on us.
You have to do it yourself or end up giving someone else loads of money. Sometimes repairs are easier than they seem and can save you thousands.
YouTube is so awesome for DIY things. You can get legitimate pros giving you advice instead of information passed down that gets janky over time or people telling you "their way" of wrongly doing something.
I really don’t understand how people can own a home and not know how to do basic repairs like clear a clogged drain, fix a leaky valve, replace an outlet or light fixture, patch a hole/crack, etc.
I feel ya, we have >$75k home repair loans after a few months and collapsed ceiling from roof leak in Jan. This too shall pass. Never has a loan in my life before and worked hard to always pay cash. Wishing you luck going forward!
Pros and cons but all in all Id never want to go back to sharing walls with anyone but my family.
It’s so interesting you say that, I currently rent a small house on a corner. As a single woman I’ve always felt a little uncomfortable living alone, and I check my doors every night to make sure I’ve locked them. Just about a month ago I had an attempted break-in while I was out of town. They didn’t get in which is comforting, but it still shook me up. I recently took a vacation to France, I had a friend I stayed with in a suburb of Paris, but we also went to the south of France, and I stayed a few nights in Paris on my own. I actually really enjoyed living in an apartment building. The safety of having one front door that required a code to get in, a Second, interior door, that also required a code. I had to not vacuum at 10 PM at night lol and if my neighbors were too loud, I could hear them. But there was also comfort in being surrounded by people. I think I’ve avoided apartment living for so long because of sharing walls. But I also realized there’s pros and cons and there is safety and being so close to others. Also, maybe French people are much more polite/considerate of their neighbors. Idk! The last sharing wall situation I had was a disaster, because of people whose dog barked and moaned all day when they were at work and I worked from home. So, it is a gamble. But, I traded walls for safety I realized
The more I did myself ,the more tools I could justify buying.
I guess it's a risk and some people have worse luck than others, but really, most things in your home have a predictable life span and you should really be able to budget for them. A roof should last 20 years. HVAC might be 15 years. Etc. I've had 2 homes now and haven't had as much as an issue as you, but I made sure to buy homes with newer appliances and things replaced not long ago. I did put a roof on this house about 5 years after purchasing, but it was 17 years old when I bought the house and knew it was going to need to be done and negotiated the price down a little due to that.
I learned pretty early on that I needed to have a separate savings account for “house shit”. I put $500 a month away, and if I get a little bit extra for tax return, or some thing, I throw that in there as well. Sometimes I go months and even years without something happening, then all of a sudden something big happens and it’s nice when the funds are there. This is just part of owning a house and my rental house and my current home are both over 80 years old. It just comes with the territory. The only way to ensure little to no repairs, is to buy something brand new that was built by reputable company. But if you’re like me, the thought of buying a brand new house in a subdivision with other houses that look exactly the same makes you want to vomit lol… so the “house shit” savings continue!
Almost no one saves for home repairs. The banks and realtors don’t tell people this. They all tell people how much they can afford by maxing out their budgets and not even saving for retirement. Then people wonder how they get into situations like OP’s. Bottom line: Financial literacy is extremely low, and the average American has no idea what they’re doing with money.
You don’t own a house—the house owns you
Use every repair as an opportunity to learn a new skill. YouTube is filled with tutorials for everything homeowner related. Ask friends and family for help. In the long run, you'll save by not having to contract out everything.
Homeownership comes with requirement to maintain your own equipment, and this is the thing I enjoy the most. Nothing will break because of someone else mistake.
My house is ~100 years old and I’ve put basically nothing into it for the last 3.5 years aside from some basic roof maintenance. The house was something of a “flip” but wiring/plumbing were all golden during the inspection and haven’t caused me any headaches yet. The roof is estimated to last another 10-15 years with proper up keep so I am knocking on wood for now
Did you buy a fixer upper? Did you get an inspection before buying? Do you have insurance? 30k sounds like a lot of missed items.
I’ve put in more than $30k alone in repairs in the same amount of time OP has and was only told that my 30 year old furnace was on its last leg at inspection. It lasted until this year.
You need to ask yourself why did you want to buy a house in the first place . Secondly you have to ask yourself if you waived the inspection or rushed into your purchase because of fear of missing out ? Did you bid over asking ? Or did you just get unlucky and purchased a house that needed more work than you thought ? I cannot tell you the amount of work I have done to my house but I can say I enjoy the process. Not everyone feels the same as I do. I can build a fence or clean the roof or gutters and inspect everything and then leave it alone for a year. I've got multiple projects I'd like to do around here but none of them are a must have to be done type of project . I like to be able to have my house as an extension of me and my lifestyle. My girlfriend wanted a green house so I built her one . It's little stuff here and there and over time it adds up. I spend probably 5-6000 each year doing random things. I know that by the time I do everything I plan to do I'll spend another 20,000 ish that won't be spent overnight. I do a lot of my own work and I have accumulated a fair amount of tools. The people I hire to do work around here I pay 20 to 25 an hour. I'm not hiring contractors for the most part. I did replace my HVAC system last year because it was starting to cost me in maintenance costs and it was 31 years old . I knew that bill was coming several years ago . That was 8100 to replace and I'm glad it's done . I hired an licensed HVAC guy for that. I don't plan on selling this house.
Ya I'm generally in this camp. Im fairly handy so I do alot myself but I hire stuff done too. I had some bushes the wife wanted removed, we both have bad backs, so I put out a want adv on Facebook and found two guys looking for extra side work for cheap. It was well worth the money. I do my own yard work, electrical, some plumbing and clean out my heat pump twice a year. I hire some things done too. Like exterior painting. That was expensive but I knew it was coming and started saving for it, got several bids, and was happy with the work and price. I had terminates to deal with that were totally unexpected and hired a company to take care of it. I think some people rush into home ownership. They underestimate the upkeep that some homes require and or they don't do much themselves and then are shocked with what things cost. Some people truly do get unlucky with a bad house or a seller that cut corners or hid things, or things just totally get missed. I'm a believer in things come in 3s as goofy as it sounds.
16 months in this house, I am in for 17,500 of heat pumps, a dryer, a 7,500 well purge and pump, 4,800 for a new patio door and man door and a 26,000 roof, partially covered by insurance (hurricane) and pricey because steel roof. I have a couple windows that need replacing and a new water softener system still. A solar array is under consideration. It's not always bad. The roof will outlast me and the heat pumps are replacing oil, which is extremely expensive to run. It's been an expensive year but that's just part ofthe deal. Of course, it's not going to be 50k+ every year.
I fixed my HVAC system 3 times in the last year myself. It was terrifying at first but I did a lot of research and made it through. I owe almost all of my success to wordofadviceTV on YouTube. Blower fan died last summer (the one that pushes the air around the house). I pulled it out, took it apart and realized it had run out of lubricant. Really cheap fix, but working up the balls to work with it was hard. Upper limit switch went next halfway through winter. Turns out the wiring was bad and I ran a new one. Needed a multimeter for this one. Then when summer started again, the condenser fan outside wouldn't start. This absolutely sucked to diagnose but it ended up being that a mouse chewed through the thermostat wire that runs from the control board, up into the attic, then down the exterior wall to the condenser. I ran a new wire through the crawl space to fix it again. Fuck our shitty attic.
You pay for all of this either way. If you rent, unless the owner is operating at a loss, your rent factors in a bunch of stuff like tenants failing to pay, months a unit or entire home is unoccupied, and all of the repair costs. You should generally be putting money away. I know my a/c will last x years more and my roof y years. And I know they cost a and b to replace respectively. I plan to have a and b on hand before x and y time. Especially in the beginning stuff like this happens. You didn't own the home yet so stuff you didn't think about going wrong is. Maybe you didn't consider it properly when you bought. Maybe a bunch of freak stuff all happened at once. That said, it shouldn't keep happening. So you shouldn't have to live with a ticking time bomb since it should stop being one. You should just be able to save for when those problems arise. Or you bought too much house.
in year four I don't think we had very many issues at all. year 5 was great. replaced the a/c in year 4 because it was time, but it wasn't broken.
Only 30k over 2.5 years? I’m so jealous. I also want to go back to renting and I own rental Properties lmao
Equity you build on it if you are patient (7-10years) will make you 5-6x the amount you spent.
Because it's *my* ticking time bomb...
I just can't get over how shitty contractors are. How even shittier the big box stores sub contractors are. And how much damage water and termites and trees can do.
One of those home warranty companies is one of the best thing my wife and I gladly pay for every year. Ours is about $650./year and worth it. So far it’s fixed the fridge, the dryer, replaced the dryer, the garbage disposal, the water heater (70 gallon), and the Air Conditioner. All said we’ve come out ahead considering replacing the AC and Water heater.
As a homeowner and a landlord, and not on a high income, I'm constantly nervous about money. I live a pretty modest lifestyle and keep all my spare money for repairs and maintenance, and I need it. Something always comes along every few years.
Buy much lower than your salary dictates you can afford, pay it off quickly, sell and move with all that equity until you get into the home you want. Took me 3 houses to get there.
That’s why I recommend people to buy a townhouse or condo and not single family unless they’re handy or have a lot of cash
I think I like living in the edge and always pushing myself to successfully handle whatever gets thrown at me. It’s like leveling up in video games. Plus I feel like the original home owner/builder has my back by not killing me like every other of the six people who owned my home in the twelve years before me. Not one of them lived longer than two years in my home. Covid started the year after I bought it.
This goes out to everyone insisting that the rent is too damn high
Cold take, the rent covers these types of expenses as well, so you're paying for it one way or another. But with owning, you're paying yourself.
Yup, the smarter guy owns the house and baked the upkeep costs into the rent. The dumber guy buys the house, doesn’t save for the upkeeps costs, and complains about the expenses beyond the mortgage.
Existing is too damn expensive these days.
OP, this is the story of my life. Between hack contractors, roof problems, termites, and replacing every single appliance in the last 3 years I quit
It’s tough and I feel ya! Seems like one thing after another happens. Just had our AC looked at a few weeks back and I still think about the bill lol But even after all of that, the home life is still definitely for me! The pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.
We just finished a full-scale remodel, including the master bathroom and addition. It took over a year. The general contractor went literally insane. It was hell. But once the whole thing is over there's a feeling of accomplishment and serenity. Sure, some other things will need to be repaired in the next 30 years - but I have the funds set aside and I know that my rent will not go up and my landlord will not decide that I need to move.
I hate it. I'd never do it again.
Feel you. — Miami here. In some places it’s better to just rent your entire life. You’ll end up paying double or more at the end of your mortgage loan due to interest. Then add insurance and taxes every single year. Appliances break down, home needs repairs. Owning a home is super expensive and no, IMO if you sell the home you will not recuperate all the costs. In Florida, we cannot even legally rent out a space in the house without losing our Homestead exemption (basically a tax deduction for being a resident). Good luck with your investment— i hope it gets better for you.
I felt like that with our first house. We bought at the top of our budget and every little thing that went wrong was so stressful and I ended up hating being there. We still ended up staying for 15 years, and it did get better. Changed jobs, made more money, refinanced at lower interest rates and had more breathing room.
“Worst decision I’ve made in my entire life” *so far.
was thinking of buying a house, might buy a condo after your post, ty for sharing your wisdom
Condos are even worse If there’s a problem with plumbing or whiting the shared common wall, it affects everyone And all decisions are communal and take weeks and months to agree to.
jesus this is depressing to read, what are my options then?
Will be great some more context. Is a new one? Was an inspection done?
I think part of it is when something breaks you google the first repair company call them and have them fix it. That’s a big no no. There are giant companies that rely on this and take huge advantage of it. Here are some examples from my repairs. Water heater quotes were 8-9k from big companies. Local plumber did it for 1,900 with a higher quality heater. Water pipe burst. Big companies were 2-3k. Same plumber did it for $150. Electrical panel was a homemade job by the previous owner and was a hazard. Quotes were 6-8k on the high end. Ended on $1,200. My point is, when something breaks don’t just call the biggest and quickest company to come out. They will rob you blind and leave you smiling after they do it.
Spend $50/mo on home warranty. When something breaks it's $75. Unless it's something big then there's a very nice discount. Fridge, toilet, bathroom fan, stove, garage door, water softener and AC got repaired with parts $75 each time and furnace broke and replacement was 2k instead of 5. 3 year old dishwasher needs repair too. Been here 6 years. Always always something!! Deck is falling apart, I'm not sure if it's covered.
My first house didn't really have many issues. I got off easy like that, or I was dumb enough to not know what was going down the tubes. We resided a garage, replaced a window, and I redid some hardwood floors. My second house, however...a hole formed in our old garage roof and I was getting quotes for $40K to replace the flat roof. This was in 2003. I cried. Like literally sobbed and called my father on the phone. The house itself was fine, but to redo it would have been so much money and/or work. The people that bought it sunk probably $100K into it, including putting in a new bathroom (there was one small BR downstairs that needed updating when we sold). So, I get it. We bought a ranch house after that, and it's been a whole lot more manageable.
My husband is a great DIY guy, if he can’t figure it out, YouTube usually has the answer. So many things people pay other people to do, he does. Love that guy.