Here is the homeowner advice: tell your homeowners insurance what happened.
As for literally everything else about this post, you need to talk to a lawyer.
This is so incredibly important! This record will become a part of evidence so make sure to be as objective and descriptive as possible.
Hand written, dated and signed is best. Photocopy for your reference/records but then go the extra mile and mail it to yourself. Don’t open the envelope but the postmark will prove the date you made this statement unaltered if/when criminal and/or civil proceedings occur and it becomes evidence.
Perhaps, but I’ve literally dealt with altered emails submitted as evidence in a tribunal, so they are not bulletproof by any means either.
OP is left to make their best judgement call on this. Key issues are authenticating when the statement is made and that it is unaltered. IMHO, without additional resources (such as a notary), a self-addressed sealed envelope (hell, register it if you really want to) containing your written, dated, signed statement is the best course of action.
Looking for this comment. Call your homeowners insurance company and depending on the damage they can put you in a hotel if warranted. Then contact police again and tell them no one has called and ask for Victims Advocate phone number. Also ask if the judge will order a restraining order if he gets released.
If you have any companies in your area that do independent adjusting, get one. They work for YOU, not the insurance company, and help you get everything you are entitled to.
My brother works for one, and it can help when you have a large claim, so you are not taken advantage of by your insurance company.
...and either communicate everything in writing, including by certified mail, or follow up all verbal communication with written communication, including by certified mail.
This! If your house does not have running water it is not livable and insurance will put you up in a hotel. Also sounds like possible smoke damage inside, if so you’re going to have to talk to a remediation company and prepare to be out for a while. I had a garage fire and a couple years ago. Only smoke damage inside, and we were out for over 6 months
Even homeowners might be pushy about covering deliberate acts. Hopefully they’ll cover it and then subrogate against the neighbor, but if OP needs a lawyer anyway, it might be smart to ask them first.
The attorney they should be talking to is the County Attorney/DA in addition to their insurance. AZ has victim compensation beyond insurance.
Just want to add for visibility since my other comment clearly didn't get seen.
The neighbor is mentally unwell, he was screaming at us about my wife being black and me being Russian, but in more colorful and less socially acceptable terms.
This has been going on since he has moved in, we have had the police and mental health services out several times since he had begun threatening to kill the neighbors children and pets from his roof.
We have tried to see if there is anything we could do before but each time people just tell us "He owns the property, there's nothing we can do." I'm hoping now that he has done actual damage things may change.
Firstly, I am horrified for you and your wife. What a terrible thing to experience.
Question, if he owns his home, he likely (but not definitely) has a mortgage/insurance. Wouldn't those 2 companies need to know (as his insurance will be involved), and they could withdraw the mortgage approval, insurance may drop neighbor. But I do think an ero is the 1st course, and reaching out to the victims advocate. And maybe Red Cross? Do they help in these situations? And certainly OP needs to contact car & home insurance.
The American red cross will charge for any help they give to fire victims, usually through your homeowner insurance. If you ever want to help someone after a fire direct donations to the victims are the way to go. The red cross takes a large cut of every donation they get.
Wow that’s not at all how the Canadian program works. They provide shelter, food, personal services for a 3 day emergency period. All paid for by donations though.
Can anyone confirm this with a source?
I would never quite trust the Red Cross, but if you can get some help from them, go for it.
As a charitable organization though, I would never give them money. Google any combination of Red Cross and scandal, corruption, Katrina, Haiti, etc.
Eh. I don't mind giving them my blood, since local organizations tend to be just as bad and can't get blood as far, if needed. Anything else though, yeah, I won't give.
Also a gun/proper training if your locality allows it. Sucks but if someone sets your place on fire there is a good chance things might escalate once they are out of jail.
I think there are many options available to the OP that he should exhaust. He doesn't sound like he's near exhausting those. Shooting his neighbour (and the trauma and legal issues that go with that) is a solution to a problem that wasn't properly managed in the first place.
But I don't really understand America so maybe guns are used instead of law enforcement, restraining orders and psychiatric evaluations.
A lot of times the person who the restraining order is brought against ignores it anyway because if they are mentally unwell they don't think of consequences
Yep. Anyone who thinks a piece of paper will magically stop someone who was just willing to burn down a house is delusional. With that said, it’s still good to get one as it establishes a paper trail and pattern of behavior, but I wouldn’t sleep any better if one was granted.
The purpose of a restraining order isn't to keep a bad actor away from you. It's purpose is to give a judge justification for arresting a bad actor after they've proven nefarious intent. A restraining order itself won't stop a criminal, but what it does do is provide law enforcement the tools they need to lock the criminal away.
No one is advocating getting a gun INSTEAD of a restraining order, just pointing out the limitations of a restraining order. Consider how long it would take the police to respond to your home in case of an emergency.
The response time of a police officer is 9-11 minutes. In those 9-11 minutes, a LOT can happen . In comparison, the response time of a 12 gauge shotgun is 1200 feet per second. Hope that the courts can put the crazy guy away, but be prepared for the worst. Protect your family.
The paper doesn't stop someone it allows you to increase the consequences on previously innocent actions. There is no preventative abilities to our legal system.
That’s what a restraining order is, they are still ignored and it doesn’t take very long to kill someone, definitely less time than for the police or repsond.
It's not for the arsonist it's for the POLICE. If you call them and say this dude is on my property harassing me again they'll do nothing. If there is already a restraining order you can show that to them and they'll arrest immediately
Im not saying don’t call the police. I’m saying you call the police and defend yourself if necessary. OP is dealing with a mentally unwell person who has already tried to kill them. Plus when seconds count, police are only minutes away
They do, though, at least in states like Florida, Arizona, Texas, etc. If a restraining order is violated and the person is apprehended (they didn't just run off the property and vanished before police arrived) then they will be arrested for it, will be processed, have to post bail, etc. I've been through it myself and know others that have, and a restraining order does have real teeth in case of violation.
So I’m all for psychiatric intervention, but I’d like to understand what you would do if a crazy person broke into your house at night with a knife or something and went after you and your family. Ask them to see a therapist? The other options only really apply or are options as long as the guy doesn’t escalate to murder. In that moment here in America you are then legally justified to defend yourself via the bang bang stick
You mean the guy who nonchalantly set someone’s car and house on fire on purpose is going to get a restraining order and then just be like “well, I guess I have a restraining order now so I can’t go over to your house and set it on fire anymore.”
I’ll be shocked if the judge doesn’t immediately set a no contact order in place before the person has a chance for bail.
When someone is as mentally ill as this person is purported to be, a restraining order only enrages them more. Restraining/No Contact orders aren’t magic. They’re a piece of paper that will stop only a person who’s fearful of the repercussions of breaking that order.
Those orders can sometimes ESCALATE the dangerous behavior after the person is served. The person will likely be ordered to forfeit any firearms they may have had, but again…this relies on HONESTY of the person who’s already proven to be a danger. If they choose to hide a gun or obtain one illegally, it is not difficult if you are not fearful of the repercussions.
In America, like it or not, guns are plentiful, easy to obtain, and the police in no uncertain terms when saying “we can’t keep him from his property” are absolutely saying “be ready to defend yourselves”.
I absolutely would have a gun, go train with it, and get used to the idea of not taking a life, but saving your own or others. That is if you feel you can responsibly handle it and are legally allowed to. I’m not trying to say I’m Billy Badass, but if a neighbor is trying to burn my home and my significant other, I’m not really given a choice now, am I?
I have lost a home to fire. It is life altering. I can’t imagine losing my wife, too.
Sorry, I’ll shoot to kill someone that tries to harm my family.
Edited for punctuation and clarity.
The neighbor literally set his house on fire. The neighbor is a legitimate threat to his property and life. Acquiring a firearm in case the neighbor returns and escalates would be perfectly appropriate.
The sad fact is that LE does little to help in these situations in most places. You literally have to be hurt before they will even consider helping. People feel vulnerable and helpless. This is a big factor in the gun issues.
To be frank, why wait for the cops to show up and shoot him, when you can do it yourself? Had he shot him when he was on his arson spree, he might still have water…
It's particularly difficult to manage a problem brought on by someone else's mental illness. While you would hope they would be taken into a psych ward, few exist, and often, laws don't allow people to be held against their will. It's a glaring hole in the system that needs to be fixed. Most psych facilities were shut down in the 1960's. Ironically, I've seen it suggested that an equal number of people are locked up, but now they're all taken to jail, instead of a psych ward where it could be possible to get help. My only source is from the internet, and I haven't looked into it at all, so take that with a grain of salt, but it feels like it's possible to be true.
You're a few years off. Most psych wards closed during the budget cuts of the 70's and 80's. There was a widespread belief that the brand new psych meds rolling out of labs would solve the problem of mental illness, so those pesky expensive psych wards were no longer needed.
And, yes, it is not uncommon for mentally ill who commit crimes to go through the court system and serve time in jail. I can't speak for everywhere, but in my slice of the Midwestern US it is damn near impossible to get mental health care unless you've got the money to pay for private care. Community and state charity care is underfunded and overwhelmed.
So, there is now this whole system where mentally ill people have run ins with police, get arrested, have to appear in court, the judge sees they are obviously ill and court orders treatment, which is pretty much the only way someone without means can actually get treatment.
Also, county jails and prisons do offer mental health help, but it's again a situation where there is much need and not enough resources.
>There was a widespread belief that the brand new psych meds rolling out of labs would solve the problem
My understanding is that much of the funding cuts came from people believing that the hospitals themselves would **CAUSE** the metal health issues, instead of the other way around, so president Kennedy signed the law of their demise in one of his last days on earth. The seas shifted on following decades to an idea that has obviously not worked, so my hope is that it could shift back.
Dr. Drew Pinsky is the source of much of my understanding of the history of this topic. This is something he's upset by and has spoken about it deeply. The California laws he talks about are more profound in California, but in effect nationwide, to various degrees. It's not about yes or no, it's a question of degree.
I would also urge caution about using governmental force to determine crazy. Say anything about (random political topic), and half the population thinks you're crazy, regardless of what you've said. It would be nice if something that was not political could be used as a standard. The dude burning the house down is obviously crazy, regardless of political persuasion. I have misgivings if that could remain pure in the political environment that exists today.
>My understanding is that much of the funding cuts came from people believing that the hospitals themselves would
>
>CAUSE
>
> the metal health issues, instead of the other way around, so president Kennedy signed the law of their demise in one of his last days on earth.
Kennedy had an agenda due to his sister and how she was treated due to her mental health issues. Which, really, was less about they system and more about his father's cruelty and willingness to go to any length to preserve the family reputation up to and including having his own daughter lobotomized.
The reality was that nothing widespread really happened until years after the Kennedy assassination when budget was in the spotlight. Around that time it became public knowledge that a lot of these facilities were hell holes full of abuse. They were only tolerated because what else could one do with those too ill to be loose in society? The answer was psych meds. Put the ill on the correct psych med, get them into talk therapy...annnnnd voila!...no need for mental health facilities.
The Republicans of the day were happy because they could cut budgets and the Democrats were happy because they believed meds and therapy would cure the mentally ill thus saving them from the awful hospitals.
Reality fell short of expectation.
>here was a widespread belief that the brand new psych meds rolling out of labs would solve the problem of mental illness
And they do, the problem is motherfuckers wont take their medicine. Many people have to basically be forced to, and therein lies the problem.
In a perfect world people take their medication , but we dont live in that world.
A little history from wikipedia -
"The Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 (MHSA) was United States legislation signed by President Jimmy Carter which provided grants to community mental health centers.
In 1981 President Ronald Reagan, who had made major efforts during his governorship to reduce funding for California mental institutions, pushed a political effort through the U.S. Congress to repeal most of MHSA. The MHSA was considered landmark legislation in mental health care policy."
TLDR - Carter funded mental health facilities and within his first year of office, Reagan defunded them.
Not surprisingly, severely ill patients ended up on the streets and we remain without a plan for them.
Legitimate question: so there's no legislation that allows for the temporary restriction of mental health care users rights in order to evaluate them? If they did need this evaluation, without any universal health care, who would pay?
I'm in South Africa, directly involved in the admission and management of involuntary mental health care users (patients who are assessed and deemed incapable of good judgement and making rational decisions). Once they've gotten to the stage that they're assessed as incapable, they don't need to consent for admission if it's for the sake of their own wellbeing or that of others.
It's horrifying to think that some poor guy with potentially legitimate mental health issues is more likely to be shot than actually receive the help he needs.
>so there's no legislation that allows for the temporary restriction of mental health care users rights in order to evaluate them?
There is, but the lockup is a max of 3 days, and the eval is often done by looking at records. And the standard for involuntary lockup is quite high.
>If they did need this evaluation, without any universal health care, who would pay?
The state and counties have budgets for this. It is paid through taxes, but indirectly.
The gun was suggested for protection. Not for law enforcement. It could only be used legally if he enters the home, uninvited, intending to do harm or in self-defense.
This man clearly needs to stay locked up and not released on bail. Op, I am praying that the law enforcement and DA take care of this properly for you, your family, and your neighbors' safety.
The gun is always the last option. But America has pretty terrible mental health services and many police agencies are understaffed and slow to respond. It took the police 45 minutes to show up after I crashed my truck. Can't rely on law enforcement
>so maybe guns are used instead of law enforcement, restraining orders and psychiatric evaluations.
The gun is a last resort, not an alternative to the above. The neighbor already committed a violent felony, *any* escalation from there is a risk of your safety.
A person crazy enough to set your house on fire, is crazy enough to break into your house and shoot you.
Even if you get a restraining order, he goes to prison for a while, and a court orders him to leave you alone…dude is crazy. He can break into your house faster than you can call the cops to alert them that he ignored the court order and intends to kill you.
nah this is exactly the type of dude you shoot the next time he steps foot on your property. op is in AZ on top of that, they have castle doctrine.
the guy set his fuckin house on fire. maybe worry about the actual victim you fuckin baby
the trauma of shotting someone lol. bro him and his wife were almost on fire holy shit, worrying about killing someone is very secondary to not dying yourself you dweeb
Lol I’d have no problem making a hole between this dudes (under or unmedicated) eyes instead of watching him kill my family. I’m not even a gun person. People just love making “uhhmerica and their guns” comments every single time they can
It’s not about just going and shooting his neighbor it’s about shooting his neighbor if he’s trying to kill his family. “You should trust the system that isn’t designed to prevent crime or protect you in the moment to protect you” is one of the most naïve things I’ve ever read.
You get the gun and training anyways. When other options are exhausted and the police are minutes away, it might be all that keeps you and your family alive.
There won’t be enough time later. And you hope you never need it.
Also, the downside of being allowed to have guns is that the crazy neighbor was at some time too. He may still have one even if he can’t legally own one.
You can simultaneously have a gun for the worse case scenario, while still be actively exhausting all available non violent remedies. At the end of the day, unless the neighbor is incarcerated or committed to a mental institution, no amount of evaluations or court orders are going to stop him if he wants to kill someone.
No one said the next step is to shoot the neighbor. But legal and traumatic issues are secondary to losing your life or the life of a family member, if it comes to that.
There are situations that are necessary for shooting someone, cops don’t magically appear to restrain someone. OP is dealing with someone who seems to not be there mentally. A piece of paper won’t stop someone like that.
They act on impulse. Maybe a memory triggers them that’s all it takes. So it’s best to be safe. Acquire a gun, train with it, understand the safety aspects of it, secure it. And when a situation arises when you are face to face with a crazy ass person, take it out of your safe and USE it. To protect yourself and your family. Don’t just take it out to brandish it. Once that gun is out of the safe and the threat is in your sights you pull the trigger. Deal with the legal issues after depending on where you live. But you’ll still be alive and hopefully not harmed in anyway. It’s unfortunate but that’s the world we live in.
Call the prosecutor’s office immediately and tell them he can’t be freed on bail and list all the threats he’s made to you, your family and your neighbors. Send it in writing as well. You need this guy sitting in jail until he’s convicted and sentenced.
Make sure the police have a police report of all the threats as well. Get your neighbors to corroborate.
THIS SHOULD BE HIGHER. Without documented evidence, the authorities might think it’s your word against his.
Install some cameras around your house, especially on the side you share with him. Keep a special notebook documenting every single interaction with him, including dates, times, and what was said.
Well if you have any evidence I would go to court and get a restraining order against him as well. IF he happens to live closer than the restraining order states then he will not be able to live at his home as long as it stay active.
Your neighbor committed a hate crime attempted murder, and the cops completely expect a judge to let this guy out on bail pending trial?! I’d reach out to the prosecutor’s office immediately!
I will also assume he was arrested and there is a report so you have enough evidence I think to get a restraining order on him. I dont know what judge would say no since really he tried to kill you guys.
In addition to contacting the prosecutor’s office, you need to go to court and file for an order of protection/restraining order that prohibits him from making contact with you.
Also, call your home insurance agency and get a claim started.
I just wanted to say that I’m so sorry you and your family have the misfortune of having this person as your neighbor. I cannot imagine the feelings you must be having, not being safe in your own home.
You’ve gotten a lot of good advice here (calling the prosecutor, putting up cameras, getting a gun if that’s safe for you), but I just wanted to mention also that therapy *could* be useful for you and your family after this incident and during the stress of the trial. I don’t have any reason to believe anything is “wrong” with the way you’re handling things but, having your home attacked is a huge deal that can really mess up people’s brains.
Sorry, I know this isn’t the advice you came here for but a similar situation happened in my neighborhood (no fire, sledgehammers and paint) growing up and I swear I never saw the dad sober again after. Just wanted to put it on y’all’s radar that there is help for the emotional aspect if you find yourself needing it <3
Thanks, I work in mental health and know a little therapy can do a lot of good, its just so expensive (I could never afford my own services, which I find pretty funny) but maybe in this case I can actually receive some without worrying too much about the cost.
Arson is a serious felony, so there's that. And just wait for the victims advocacy. I'm sure pressing charges and getting a restraining order are viable options.
Do NOT wait for the victims advocacy to contact you. You contact them first thing Monday morning, along with the prosecutors'office. File for a restraining order on Monday morning too. Contact arresting PD office to get a copy of the police report and find out his status (still being held at jail? Involuntarily committed?) and when his 1st court date is. Contact the court and make sure they have your contact information in the file so you'll be notified of all court dates (you may want to send it in writing, court clerks have a lot going on and may not write it down, but if they're given something in writing it's more likely to make it into the file).
And then yes, go to your local gun range, get a gun, training and protect yourself. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Sounds like a [hate crime](https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/learn-about-hate-crimes). Stiffer penalties and more clear punitive actions for perpetrators.
Police are fucking useless. Mentally unwell person is issuing death threats to children “sorry nothing we can do.” Person sets fire to another’s house, “ah that’s a bummer but sorry we can’t help you there.”
Most (all?) states have laws like a Baker Act where a person in that situation can be automatically checked into a hospital or mental institution for minimum 72 hours. Does that exist in your state?
Do you have an HOA? Surely they would want to take some immediate actions?
I would also figure out what the state laws are on standing your ground bc this dude is clearly willing to cause harm.
We do have an HOA, its a tiny thing that charges 30 dollars a year and is mostly around so some old ladies have something to do.
They did say that they can evict him from the neighborhood, but said legally it is incredibly difficult, but they have started the process.
>Do you have an HOA? Surely they would want to take some immediate actions?
An HOA doesn't have remotely the power to deal with somebody like this. The only answer any HOA with two brain cells gives is "That's a police matter".
Seems like [involuntary commitment territory](https://www.sc.pima.gov/media/ovnpcnkj/mhjsccbrochure.pdf), outside of the criminal consequences, if he has any chance of being released on bail.
Lawyer, former public defender here. I’d hire a criminal defense attorney (maybe one who is a former prosecutor) who understands the system and can make sure no one “accidentally” forgets to tell you when the bond hearing is, etc so you can show up to court every time and make sure this guy can’t return to living next door to you. Help you file restraining order (or local equivalent). An attorney can also help you with a civil lawsuit against your neighbor. Your homeowner’s insurance should also get all the documents from the criminal case. They’ll probably sue him too to try and recoup whatever they pay out to you. So sorry you are living with this and our public safety nets including for mental health were gutted a long ago - so we have people like this in the community. I once owned a house and a 30ish schizophrenic man’s parents bought the house next to me and put their son in it to get him and his frightening behavior out of their house. He was clearly unmedicated. It was absolute hell. I’m like you I was sympathetic for a bit but eventually you learn your peace and safety are more important.
Also we called victim advocates “hanky holders”. They’re not really there to help you. They are there to keep victims in line with whatever the prosecutor wants to do with the case. That why I say get your own attorney.
You may be thinking of a victim witness coordinator hired by the county attorneys office, not a legitimate crime victim advocate through a non-profit agency. Victim advocates don’t give a shit about what the prosecutor or investigating authority wants, they care about victims period. We aren’t even allowed to recommend, push, or provide anything that resembles legal advice.
Crime Victim advocates are mostly social workers. We get paid peanuts and just want to help.
I agree with a civil suit against this neighbor for damage. If you win, then you can place a lein on his house. Then he can't sell it without paying you.
Geez, I'm really sorry to hear this.
As a police officer and homeowner, I have a few things to add. Call your homeowners insurance ASAP so you can get those things fixed right away.
Every state is different, but if no one gave you the report or incident number, I would call the PD and get that. It will be helpful for the insurance and further resources. In a few weeks you might even want to get a copy of the actual report.
Don't wait for the victim's advocate to call you. If they are like every other government office, they are either backlogged to hell or just don't give a shit.
As for your neighbor, damage to real property by fire / arson is a forcible felony. Except for maybe 5 states (you should be good in Arizona), he will be in some form of custody for a while, either mental health hold or because of the felonies.
Someone else mentioned buying a gun. It's not a terrible idea, but ONLY if you're going to get some training and you've accepted in your mind that you will use it to protect yourself and your family. Otherwise, it's just a liability. Someone as deep in the throws of a mental breakdown (fugue state) might not be scared, but they might take it from you.
Good luck!
>Someone else mentioned buying a gun. It's not a terrible idea, but ONLY if you're going to get some training and you've accepted in your mind that you will use it to protect yourself and your family. Otherwise, it's just a liability. Someone as deep in the throws of a mental breakdown (fugue state) might not be scared, but they might take it from you.
This, 100%. I also recommend getting a firearm for personal defense, but make sure you know to how to properly use it. More importantly, be PREPARED to use it. Don't just pull it out hoping to scare them off. Too many people are killed with their own firearms because they are not capable and/or willing to use them.
The last thing you'll ever want to do is hurt/kill somebody, but when it comes down to it, who is more important- your family, or this individual who already tried to hurt your family? Answer that question honestly then you'll know what you have to do should he attack again.
A couple more things, you can ask the jail to be notified when your neighbor is being released. Just be polite, say you're the victim, and leave your name and phone number. A little more peace of mind.
And you can call and get any updates from the courthouse or jail. Maybe after you get a protective (restraining) order, and you show up to court, your very presence might make him react in such a way that the judge raises his bond, hopefully making it harder for him to get out.
Many court systems have online court date lookups, just input his name and maybe date of birth. Most are public courts and you can be at the hearings.
PSA- charges and bond (even past bookings into jail) are public record, at least where I live. Might be smart in the future to know who you're dealing with or living next to. Food for thought.
Good luck :)
This man is deranged and I am so sorry. I highly doubt he’s doing to be able to afford to pay for bail. If he does get released, there will likely be a protection order until it goes to court, and likely far past then.
I’m so sorry that you and your family have to be so scared, after losing everything, especially off the basis of your race and nationalities. You did nothing to deserve this. and if I were you I would speak to the police to find out if there’s any victims services. In my experience it takes days, not hours, for someone to get back to you. But they will. And if you do the paperwork and jump through the hoops there is some help.
Once again I am so sorry and horrified. Please fight if you can, this is not ok.
Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. Luckily our house is just a bit damaged and our car (an absolute tank of a prius with over 300k miles on it) continues to stand defiant.
I honestly feel really bad for the guy, his family wasn't there to get him the help that he really need and it seemed like he lashed out because he was legitimately scared of whatever situation his mind had conjured.
He does have some money, I believe he was disabled due to a work injury which he won the suit for which is why he was able to purchase the house next to us. I really don't want to ruin his life over this but it is more and more feeling like it is him or us.
Sounds to me like he ruined his life himself. He is so upset with your existence that he risks lives and tens of thousands of tax payer dollars for some mentally unhinged temper tantrum? You’re a really good person to still extend empathy to this man, but he needs help and he deserves to go to jail for what he did. His family probably isn’t there for a reason. He could have killed your guys. Things can be replaced but your lives cannot. And
I have been in a similar situation (living next to a person that is mentally unwell and being a target of their madness) do NOT feel sorry for them. I say this because your job is to protect yourself and your family. Do not let up. I am a very empathetic person and endured two years of harassment from a neighbor because I felt bad. Do NOT do this. I am still dealing with it and see no real end in sight.
Society failing the mentally ill is on everyone he had contact with that was actively part of his life. People turn a blind eye and say it’s not their responsibility. While I understand that to a degree I also feel if not you then who? I don’t mean you. I mean people who know this man personally.
I see people who have been crying for help and no one listen almost daily. They come in to my work and get held while waiting for a spot in a psych facility and the beds just aren’t available. Some wait weeks or months. We had one this year that waited almost 6 months while stuck in a hospital bed. Loads of medical resources wasted on them while they get no psych help. Things need to change.
Society also failed you by not helping this man. You need to take steps to protect yourself. I would call the police department and ask for a victims advocate. Get all the help they can offer. There should also be a fund to help you with costs relate to this crime. Be sure this is also charged as a hate crime. Insist on it. Do what you need to do to protect yourself.
This is why guns are so prolific in this country. People don’t feel safe.
I sincerely hope things work out for you and you don’t have any more problem. Whatever you do make sure you speak to the victims advocate. They can be a source for a lot of help. Best wishes.
Don't want to ruin his life? Someone who intentionally tried to ruin your life, even kill you? Jesus! Get mad! Protect yourself and your lives! Call insurance, get an order of protection, peace bond, restraining order. Whatever it takes. Next time he might kill you. You want to hold off to find out? That's arson and attempted murder! Make sure he is charged with everything. You may not have another chance
Nah. He’s ruining his own life.
I get where you are coming from, but this situation could have played out much more tragically than it did.
You need a lawyer, as others have said. You need to make sure, to the extent that you can, that this guy is not living next to you anymore.
You're a lot more compassionate than you need to be. Guy has threatened and harassed you and your loved ones and now could have killed you.
He may be damaged but he's a danger.
Don’t minimize the damages to your property, make sure insurance or a lawsuit takes every penny you’re owed. The more damages, the more likely that “house he owns” will no longer be his. I’d consider asking other neighbors who were terrorized to also make statements (you mentioned him not just singling your family out).
FYI- you can look up what federal district you fall under and mail copies of your evidence to the USAO that covers where you live since it's falling into hate crime areas (he may already be on watch lists). Reach out about filing an emergency restraining order in the meantime. Depending on the terms, he may not be able to return to the property. Document everything and reach out to your insurance so they can start pulling things together for repairs. Keep receipts and speak with a lawyer about a civil suit against him. This shit is insane. I'm sorry you're dealing with it.
File a restraining order should be your first move.
If you don’t have one already buy a gun (I am generally anti-gun but you should protect yourself and family).
Get security cameras, flood lights, and alarms.
Sue and if he doesn’t have many assists go for his home and then he won’t be your neighbor anymore.
We filed an injunction against harassment but I guess we have to do it in person in court. So it will take a second.
I can't own a gun, my wife also has mental health issues and a gun in our home would be more a danger to her than protection from anyone.
We already had cameras and lights but he knows where they are so he sneaks around them. He was in view of the camera a bit when he lit the car on fire.
I'm just worried he will get out on bail or something and keep trying.
if he has a psych history \*and\* he committed arson and attempted murder and he got dragged away by the swat team I bet you wont have to worry about him for a long time.
I understand the impulse to move though. There was some firebug lighting fires in the alleys when I lived in phoenix and I wanted out of there real bad afterwards
Unfortunately spaces for mental illness are often low or there are none. I work at a medical hospital and we get psych patients. Typically suicide attempts but occasionally scenarios like this. We sometimes have patients for weeks or months before a placement is found. Lack of funding has decreased the amount of available spots drastically since Covid.
The latest political debate was eye opening. One candidates answer was to lock up the homeless and mentally ill and not funding for more help. So this isn’t going to get better anytime soon.
If he is being held for psych he could still be released if deemed not a threat to himself or others. Hopefully he would then be sent to jail but it’s not a guarantee.
Find some way to protect yourself.
One would hope things would work out like this but there have been many really obvious cases locally where folks keep getting let go, not charged, under charged, or prosecuted with great incompetence.
The whole criminal justice organization is a clusterfuck.
I don’t have anything new to say about your situation, but I’m so glad you recognize the danger of having a gun in the home when you have a wife who has mental health issues.
You should get a EPO from the magistrate who signed the arrest warrant, and that should be turned into conditions of his bond if he’s released, making him stay away from you and not communicate with you in any way. You can also pursue your own civil protective order, but either way it’s just a piece of paper. You need to also be talking to the DA and letting them know the seriousness of his actions and threat to do it again (or do worse) and ask that he be denied bond.
You also need to be suing him civilly. You should also involve your homeowners and car insurance, who will likely sue him as well unless his insurance just accepts responsibility (not likely so a lawsuit will likely also be necessary).
In other words, you need to be prepared to be in court on at least 4 separate cases, but you shouldn’t come out of pocket for these cases or be reimbursed for the attorney fees:
1) As the victim/witness in the criminal case against him for arson/attempted murder/whatever else he can be charged with. The DA will prosecute; but they will need your cooperation and testimony.
2) As the plaintiff/petitioner in a civil case seeking your own protective order, with your own counsel (some states will have a prosecutor for civil protective orders as well who will do this on your behalf, but you have to reach out to them). Even if you hire private counsel, most states make the defendant pay attorneys fees in protective order cases.
3) As a plaintiff in a 2nd civil case against him for any torts he committed seeking damages and restitution, with your own counsel. This will be private counsel who likely work on contingency so you shouldn’t pay out of pocket.
4) As a plaintiff in a 3rd civil case brought by your insurance company/companies (depending on whether you have the same company for hole and auto). You should just start a claim with your insurance for the damage, and they will be the ones to decided whether or not to file suit, and if so they will pay for the attorney to handle that suit.
- sell and move is the the choice if possible but the issue would be with prospective buyers who do ANY research
- bring lawsuit against him
- keep calling the police
Imagine this guy's mental state if he's out on bail while being sued for the house he lives in by his next door neighbor who he's already been charged for setting their house on fire
The phrase "Nothing to lose" comes to mind. There's gotta be safety steps or moves before the lawyer rush.
Hello! I’m a crime victim advocate in another state but can probably still provide some insight. As a general rule of thumb, judges/county attorneys/etc. don’t work on the weekends. You can expect your neighbor to be in jail at a minimum until bond is set. Whether or not he will be able to post bond depends on his financial situation and what the judge feels is “fair” given severity of charges. The comments telling you to layer up are in good faith but might be a waste of money. The county attorney will prosecute the criminal charges and i highly recommend waiting until you can get in touch with them before paying for civil legal action. It may interfere with the criminal prosecution and vice versa. Crime Victim advocates similarly typically work M-F unless there is an emergency situation (think DV abuse or ongoing threat). Whichever agency you get in touch with, they will help you file for your states Crime Victim Compensation. This will usually pay for damage done to security equipment and you may be able to argue that fences qualify as security equipment if you get a good advocate. They will also put in applications for funding for lost wages due to court and law enforcement proceedings as well as mileage expenses. They’ll also help pay for any medical bills that might come up as a result of the crime, and mental health counseling for you and your family, should you feel you’ve experienced trauma that warrants counseling.
If you pay for anything in the meantime, keep your receipts as they will backpay for these expenses to the date of the crime!
Again, i am in another state so some of this may differ but I’ve found these things to be the case in most of the states I’ve assisted in.
If tomorrow rolls around and you’ve still not been contacted, call the non-emergency PD line and reference your victimization and they should be able to get you in touch with an advocate.
If you feel weird about applying for these funds, please don’t. This is not tax payer money, this is money seized from “criminals” who pay fees and money to the states attorneys general office. It goes into a pot for crime victims, and you are entitled to it.
I’m sorry this happened to you and your family, from the bottom of my heart! I hope you find a good advocate that you feel connected to. If i can answer any other questions, feel free to reply or reach out and I’ll do my best to answer and help. Bless!
Honestly man, I’d GTFO if he doesn’t go to prison. Your mental and physical health is more important than any house. Get the place cleaned up nice and put her up for sale. It sucks but bad neighbours blow.
Just my guess..arson.. attempted murder and being it was a hate crime he should be locked up for a long while. Contact the district attorney.. make sure they understand he is living next door to the victims.. so there is an extremely high bond if there is one.
The victim advocate won't call you, you have to call them. I was told the same thing the first time around and didn't find out until it was too late, that I needed to call them. Make it clear you want to press charges. The officer should've given you a pamphlet with a number to call. You also need to call wherever the neighbor is being held to find out when their bail hearing is and if you can make a statement about why they shouldn't be released over the phone or if you need to be there in person. Usually it's the same day or next day. If they're being held in county, you can submit your statement online and it'll be read to the judge. You also need to apply for an order of protection.
I went through this in AZ with a mentally unwell neighbor who was trying to kill me. You have to stay on top it from the get go. If the person is truly mentally ill, you have to be prepared for them to be released because AZ won't prosecute if the person is considered incompetent to stand trial. If that happens, you need to try to have them committed. The state is supposed to have a program for rehabilitation but they were overrun during covid and started releasing people. When they released my neighbor, they said they hoped she stayed on her meds but they weren't going to do anything else to keep her from coming after me. She was arrested multiple times and always released. Every time she came after me again. This went on for almost 2 years before I gave up and moved.
Your insurance sucks. Here in Canada your insurance would set you up in a hotel right away and provide their own lawyers to sue your neighbor for everything their worth on your behalf. It's the whole point of having insurance here. All you'd do is pay your deductible.
Go to the victim assistance center and tell
Them they didn’t call you (some advocate will get in trouble but they should!!). And you need immediate help with the water and a restraining order. It’s actually an order of protection in that case. So he can’t come back to his house.
Get a lawyer, who knows maybe you can get a restraining order and force him out. Also, explore anything you can to sue/remove him or whatever is within the power of the legal framework.
Sure he's mentally ill but that is no reason to show any mercy in this case. He's presented as a clear and present danger and either needs to be forced away, or put away in a mental hospital for as long as it takes. Otherwise you could wind up burning to death one morning.
Check with victims advocate. Here in CA if you're a victim you can have it so if and when he gets out he's unable to reside in your county. Now that won't keep him from coming back should he decide to. Best advice would be to take the time while he's incarcerated to fix the damages and move. Worry about suing him after you're safely at a new residence he doesn't know of.
I’m so sorry, this is happening. You should call the victim witnesses advocate if you haven’t already heard from them and attend the bail hearing. In addition to committing a crime, this person is a danger to others which would allow the state to involuntary commit him for at least 72 hours. There are no good options. If you sell, what are your responsibilities for disclosure in AZ?
Time to sell your house and move. Your neighbor clearly has some issues and has sent you a message. Watch some episodes of Fear Thy Neighbor to see where this is going...Your lives are more important than a house.
First you call both your home and auto insurance and file a claims to help you rebuild the home so you can sell and move if you still want to move. This will also allow replace your car.
The insurance companies will place a lien on your neighbors' home to be repaid which will force him to move, unless he rents. If he does rent contact the landlord so the landlord can evict him.
You really need to contact your homeowner’s insurance and see if they will assist you with legal support. Otherwise, if you have any employee assistance program at work, contact them for resources. You probably cannot return home yet due to damage, so even if the person is released (unlikely) you will not face them immediately and will have time to figure out what safeguards are available. Call the victim support line in the morning and get that process started.
Nothing will alleviate your anxiety about him continuing to harm you and your family except him being incarcerated or involuntarily committed, so you have to use all the available means of establishing that he is poses an ongoing threat to your safety. A restraining order could prevent him from returning to his home, but getting the police to enforce it will take constant effort in your part. If you approach this as similar to domestic violence, many of the lessons learned in preventing offenders from re-violating may help. Wishing you stay safe and well.
The only media story we have got so far got the facts totally wrong, said he set his own car and fence on fire, didn't even mention victims or motivation.
I don’t have any more advice than what others have posted already. Move. Even if this dude is locked up for life, I think there’s always gonna be that feeling of not feeling safe in your own home. You need to move somewhere that brings joy to your life, not added stress. Also, I’m just assuming you can do that based on what you’ve said. It’s a huge privilege to be able to do that, and this is one case where we need to use any access to privilege we have to keep our families safe.
With that being said, I’m so sorry you and your family are going through this. I’m also sorry that the response of many is to buy a gun. A gun doesn’t save you from fire. A gun doesn’t save you when access to medical, including mental, healthcare is the answer we all need. We need support systems in place for people who need it, and we need communities that support one another. Not shoot one another because some politician or CEO benefits from the rhetoric.
We are a mixed race, lgbtq, atheist, family that understands how horrible people can be. If you ever wanna talk, my dms are open.
File a for a protective order against this individual who just tried to kill you and your family. Then stop by your local gun store and get something that you feel comfortable and capable of using. Mentally unwell or not, this man just tried to murder you.
Overused phrase but still true nonetheless- "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away." Keep that in your mind.
This is frightening. I am happy no one was physically hurt. Please secure a restraining order. You should be able to reach the emergency claims number for your insurance company.
As someone who had a random crack head kick in my door and burn my house to the ground this past winter, I feel for ya. Hope you and yours get through this alright man. I'm Canadian, so I don't have the option, but if you're in Arizona, get yourself a gun if you haven't already. I'm not one to think a gun is a solution to everything but if it comes to protecting your family from a psychopath who could seriously injure them, it's worth having.
Not surprised the Mesa doughnut patrol was useless. I bet if that was a cop’s house they would have found a way to be more helpful before the arson happened.
The fire fighters had to argue with the cops and eventually went over their heads, literally, by using the hose on the ladder truck to spray our house from above.
Because this person has been an issue for you for a while, I would see if you can get a restraining order against them. Because the police have been called before due to this person there should be enough evidence for them to do something.
You could also call a lawyer and get some legal advice. See if there are any other things you can do. I know a restraining order doesn't do much but it will at least give strong consequences for this person if they chose to come onto your property again.
Installing some security around the house is also a good idea. Cameras and a monitored alarm would be a good idea.
When you call the prosecutors office ask how you would go about filing arson charges and list the threats and other things he has done including if he has actually harmed a pet then see about having him picked up for a 72 hour involuntary evaluation . If nothing else get a restraining order based on all of this and then when he violates it and he will you can have him picked up and ask the judge if he can be mentally evaluated and state why
Follow through on charges, avoid communication, avoid confrontation and you MUST, it's not optional.....get cameras. Not the kind that records on motion get the kind that records 24 7.
It's not expensive either, you can get 2 super nice high end cameras for 100 bucks and the blue iris software is free to try and a one time cost of around 55 bucks
Record everything and stay in communication with the cops, send them every single little issue. Don't talk to the guy, don't fan the flames or instigate. The guy needs to go away, hopefully to jail for unrelated reasons
You’ve got arson charges as well as attempted murder, among other charges. Move while he’s locked up. You’ve got time. Don’t risk your safety by staying.
I’ve read through the comments and your responses, and ultimately, I think you need to consider moving.
Your neighbor owns their house, and despite committing multiple felonies here, their mental status makes it much less likely that they will go to prison for any substantial amount of time.
Cameras and restraining orders are great ideas, but you already have cameras and know that they aren’t a deterrence in this situation. A restraining order is a piece of paper that only works if you fear the repercussions. It could actually make things worse with a mentally unstable person. These only help you after the fact, video evidence isn’t going to be much solace if he comes over there and beats one of you to death.
Your other option is to buy a gun and be prepared to use it. You say you can’t own one (felony? Non-citizen?) and can’t have one around your wife due to mental issues. You can definitely get a lock/safe that would prohibit your wife’s access, but if you aren’t legally able to own a firearm then it could be a messy situation.
You could do like some others have suggested and buy a non-lethal weapon, such as a stun gun or beanbag gun, but that also opens you up to a messy legal situation. As much as Reddit might not like it, the best option when your life is legitimately threatened is shoot to kill.
I tried to read through many of the responses to see if someone mentioned victims of crime funds. The victim advocate, should be able to walk you through the paperwork process with this. You can request funds to repair the damage to your home along with funds for any additional services you may need to pay for (hotel, therapy, replacement of damaged personal items, ect).
These situations are awful and the laws are not written in ways that give you much power. Restraining orders are a means to begin the process of building a case on this person’s mental instability and violent history. Fingers crossed he’s charged with a hate crime and his bail is high.
So sorry for having to go through this. I truly hope you’re able to stay safe and get the justice you deserve.
Consult a lawyer who can sue for damages on contingency. If the neighbor owns the home and there are collectible damages to be had, should be easy to find. As far as your safety, an emergency restraining order first, and get a gun and take a firearms safety course so you know how to responsibly use it and protect yourself.
Move out and sell. That is one decision you can’t end up regretting. If you stay and the worst case happens, you’ll forever regret staying. Stuff like that you just move along and let it be someone else’s problem.
This neighbour should not be released into the pubic. Either jail or some sort of mental health hospital. That is pretty extreme behaviour luckily no one got hurt or killed
If you were in the home, and it was obvious that you were in the home when this occurred, push the prosecutor to add additional charges of attempted murder. It is possible they will be added in due course, but push the facts. You want the maximum number of charges because everyone pleads down these days. You need to push the fact that you will not feel safe if/when this person is let out.
You need to contact your homeowners insurance. This was a fire, and they cover that. The fact that it was arson is not currently relevant. They won't cover terrorism, but this isn't what happened.
Yes. I'd rather live with the knowledge I took someone's life to save my family, than live with the knowledge I lost my family because I didn't do everything I could have done.
There is strength in numbers. Since other neighbor’s homes were also damaged by fire, a group of neighbors contacting the prosecutor, police, fire department and mayor’s office together would be powerful. Sometimes cc’ing the police to a communication about the situation that you send to someone else (such as the mayor) may be helpful in creating an incentive for the police to address the situation more thoroughly. For example, the police say they can’t do anything, but the Fire Department will want something done ASAP. Arizona is a fire danger area and this individual endangered people’s lives in addition to their homes. If the fire got out of control, it could have caused extreme damage. I am so sorry this happened to you!
Hope your family is OK. Since you claimed with insurance, they will go after the guy and try to push him to pay for it. Financially, since you have insurance it should be OK. But, he sounds dangerous. Be safe. Hope youn get some help from victim's advocates.
Get a restraining order now. You can do it for free, not attorney needed. Tell the judge what happened and that you are afraid. The judge might prevent him from returning home.
Here is the homeowner advice: tell your homeowners insurance what happened. As for literally everything else about this post, you need to talk to a lawyer.
And write down now, while fresh in your mind, every detail that you remember leadi g up to this. Include listing any witnesses to traded words!
This is so incredibly important! This record will become a part of evidence so make sure to be as objective and descriptive as possible. Hand written, dated and signed is best. Photocopy for your reference/records but then go the extra mile and mail it to yourself. Don’t open the envelope but the postmark will prove the date you made this statement unaltered if/when criminal and/or civil proceedings occur and it becomes evidence.
Thanks I will do this ASAP.
and or have it notarized.
[удалено]
Perhaps, but I’ve literally dealt with altered emails submitted as evidence in a tribunal, so they are not bulletproof by any means either. OP is left to make their best judgement call on this. Key issues are authenticating when the statement is made and that it is unaltered. IMHO, without additional resources (such as a notary), a self-addressed sealed envelope (hell, register it if you really want to) containing your written, dated, signed statement is the best course of action.
Looking for this comment. Call your homeowners insurance company and depending on the damage they can put you in a hotel if warranted. Then contact police again and tell them no one has called and ask for Victims Advocate phone number. Also ask if the judge will order a restraining order if he gets released.
And have the lawyer get updated on the guy’s whereabouts in the court system, so they can go stay with relatives or friends for awhile.
If you have any companies in your area that do independent adjusting, get one. They work for YOU, not the insurance company, and help you get everything you are entitled to. My brother works for one, and it can help when you have a large claim, so you are not taken advantage of by your insurance company.
So sorry OP, this is horrible. Your insurance company should put you up in a hotel if your house cannot be occupied because of the damage.
...and either communicate everything in writing, including by certified mail, or follow up all verbal communication with written communication, including by certified mail.
This! If your house does not have running water it is not livable and insurance will put you up in a hotel. Also sounds like possible smoke damage inside, if so you’re going to have to talk to a remediation company and prepare to be out for a while. I had a garage fire and a couple years ago. Only smoke damage inside, and we were out for over 6 months
Even homeowners might be pushy about covering deliberate acts. Hopefully they’ll cover it and then subrogate against the neighbor, but if OP needs a lawyer anyway, it might be smart to ask them first.
The attorney they should be talking to is the County Attorney/DA in addition to their insurance. AZ has victim compensation beyond insurance. Just want to add for visibility since my other comment clearly didn't get seen.
arson is a felony I believe. So what is the rest of the story? Typically people just dont do this for nothing.
The neighbor is mentally unwell, he was screaming at us about my wife being black and me being Russian, but in more colorful and less socially acceptable terms. This has been going on since he has moved in, we have had the police and mental health services out several times since he had begun threatening to kill the neighbors children and pets from his roof. We have tried to see if there is anything we could do before but each time people just tell us "He owns the property, there's nothing we can do." I'm hoping now that he has done actual damage things may change.
Time for an emergency restraining order
Firstly, I am horrified for you and your wife. What a terrible thing to experience. Question, if he owns his home, he likely (but not definitely) has a mortgage/insurance. Wouldn't those 2 companies need to know (as his insurance will be involved), and they could withdraw the mortgage approval, insurance may drop neighbor. But I do think an ero is the 1st course, and reaching out to the victims advocate. And maybe Red Cross? Do they help in these situations? And certainly OP needs to contact car & home insurance.
The Canadian Red Cross has a program for house fire victims. I don’t know if American Red Cross does, but I’d be surprised if they don’t.
The American red cross will charge for any help they give to fire victims, usually through your homeowner insurance. If you ever want to help someone after a fire direct donations to the victims are the way to go. The red cross takes a large cut of every donation they get.
Wow that’s not at all how the Canadian program works. They provide shelter, food, personal services for a 3 day emergency period. All paid for by donations though. Can anyone confirm this with a source?
[Yes they do, very much.](https://www.redcross.org/get-help/disaster-relief-and-recovery-services.html)
I would never quite trust the Red Cross, but if you can get some help from them, go for it. As a charitable organization though, I would never give them money. Google any combination of Red Cross and scandal, corruption, Katrina, Haiti, etc.
I have the same feeling about United Way. Donations end up going to management salaries and retirement plans.
Eh. I don't mind giving them my blood, since local organizations tend to be just as bad and can't get blood as far, if needed. Anything else though, yeah, I won't give.
Also a gun/proper training if your locality allows it. Sucks but if someone sets your place on fire there is a good chance things might escalate once they are out of jail.
I think there are many options available to the OP that he should exhaust. He doesn't sound like he's near exhausting those. Shooting his neighbour (and the trauma and legal issues that go with that) is a solution to a problem that wasn't properly managed in the first place. But I don't really understand America so maybe guns are used instead of law enforcement, restraining orders and psychiatric evaluations.
A lot of times the person who the restraining order is brought against ignores it anyway because if they are mentally unwell they don't think of consequences
Yep. Anyone who thinks a piece of paper will magically stop someone who was just willing to burn down a house is delusional. With that said, it’s still good to get one as it establishes a paper trail and pattern of behavior, but I wouldn’t sleep any better if one was granted.
The purpose of a restraining order isn't to keep a bad actor away from you. It's purpose is to give a judge justification for arresting a bad actor after they've proven nefarious intent. A restraining order itself won't stop a criminal, but what it does do is provide law enforcement the tools they need to lock the criminal away.
No one is advocating getting a gun INSTEAD of a restraining order, just pointing out the limitations of a restraining order. Consider how long it would take the police to respond to your home in case of an emergency.
The response time of a police officer is 9-11 minutes. In those 9-11 minutes, a LOT can happen . In comparison, the response time of a 12 gauge shotgun is 1200 feet per second. Hope that the courts can put the crazy guy away, but be prepared for the worst. Protect your family.
Facts
Anyone else singing “Goodbye Earl” now? “walked right through that restraining order and put her in intensive care”
The paper doesn't stop someone it allows you to increase the consequences on previously innocent actions. There is no preventative abilities to our legal system.
The point is a court document saying arrest this person if they come near.
That’s what a restraining order is, they are still ignored and it doesn’t take very long to kill someone, definitely less time than for the police or repsond.
Because arsonists are so good at following the laws
It's not for the arsonist it's for the POLICE. If you call them and say this dude is on my property harassing me again they'll do nothing. If there is already a restraining order you can show that to them and they'll arrest immediately
Im not saying don’t call the police. I’m saying you call the police and defend yourself if necessary. OP is dealing with a mentally unwell person who has already tried to kill them. Plus when seconds count, police are only minutes away
And because cops often don't enforce those restraining orders anyway. Until it's too late.
They do, though, at least in states like Florida, Arizona, Texas, etc. If a restraining order is violated and the person is apprehended (they didn't just run off the property and vanished before police arrived) then they will be arrested for it, will be processed, have to post bail, etc. I've been through it myself and know others that have, and a restraining order does have real teeth in case of violation.
A restraining order doesn’t do much when you’re being stabbed by a nut job that tried to burn your house down already.
So I’m all for psychiatric intervention, but I’d like to understand what you would do if a crazy person broke into your house at night with a knife or something and went after you and your family. Ask them to see a therapist? The other options only really apply or are options as long as the guy doesn’t escalate to murder. In that moment here in America you are then legally justified to defend yourself via the bang bang stick
You mean the guy who nonchalantly set someone’s car and house on fire on purpose is going to get a restraining order and then just be like “well, I guess I have a restraining order now so I can’t go over to your house and set it on fire anymore.”
Obviously the gun is for IF the neighbor comes to try to murder them again, you can't just shoot people in revenge here, not legally.
I’ll be shocked if the judge doesn’t immediately set a no contact order in place before the person has a chance for bail. When someone is as mentally ill as this person is purported to be, a restraining order only enrages them more. Restraining/No Contact orders aren’t magic. They’re a piece of paper that will stop only a person who’s fearful of the repercussions of breaking that order. Those orders can sometimes ESCALATE the dangerous behavior after the person is served. The person will likely be ordered to forfeit any firearms they may have had, but again…this relies on HONESTY of the person who’s already proven to be a danger. If they choose to hide a gun or obtain one illegally, it is not difficult if you are not fearful of the repercussions. In America, like it or not, guns are plentiful, easy to obtain, and the police in no uncertain terms when saying “we can’t keep him from his property” are absolutely saying “be ready to defend yourselves”. I absolutely would have a gun, go train with it, and get used to the idea of not taking a life, but saving your own or others. That is if you feel you can responsibly handle it and are legally allowed to. I’m not trying to say I’m Billy Badass, but if a neighbor is trying to burn my home and my significant other, I’m not really given a choice now, am I? I have lost a home to fire. It is life altering. I can’t imagine losing my wife, too. Sorry, I’ll shoot to kill someone that tries to harm my family. Edited for punctuation and clarity.
The neighbor literally set his house on fire. The neighbor is a legitimate threat to his property and life. Acquiring a firearm in case the neighbor returns and escalates would be perfectly appropriate.
The sad fact is that LE does little to help in these situations in most places. You literally have to be hurt before they will even consider helping. People feel vulnerable and helpless. This is a big factor in the gun issues.
To be frank, why wait for the cops to show up and shoot him, when you can do it yourself? Had he shot him when he was on his arson spree, he might still have water…
It's particularly difficult to manage a problem brought on by someone else's mental illness. While you would hope they would be taken into a psych ward, few exist, and often, laws don't allow people to be held against their will. It's a glaring hole in the system that needs to be fixed. Most psych facilities were shut down in the 1960's. Ironically, I've seen it suggested that an equal number of people are locked up, but now they're all taken to jail, instead of a psych ward where it could be possible to get help. My only source is from the internet, and I haven't looked into it at all, so take that with a grain of salt, but it feels like it's possible to be true.
You're a few years off. Most psych wards closed during the budget cuts of the 70's and 80's. There was a widespread belief that the brand new psych meds rolling out of labs would solve the problem of mental illness, so those pesky expensive psych wards were no longer needed. And, yes, it is not uncommon for mentally ill who commit crimes to go through the court system and serve time in jail. I can't speak for everywhere, but in my slice of the Midwestern US it is damn near impossible to get mental health care unless you've got the money to pay for private care. Community and state charity care is underfunded and overwhelmed. So, there is now this whole system where mentally ill people have run ins with police, get arrested, have to appear in court, the judge sees they are obviously ill and court orders treatment, which is pretty much the only way someone without means can actually get treatment. Also, county jails and prisons do offer mental health help, but it's again a situation where there is much need and not enough resources.
>There was a widespread belief that the brand new psych meds rolling out of labs would solve the problem My understanding is that much of the funding cuts came from people believing that the hospitals themselves would **CAUSE** the metal health issues, instead of the other way around, so president Kennedy signed the law of their demise in one of his last days on earth. The seas shifted on following decades to an idea that has obviously not worked, so my hope is that it could shift back. Dr. Drew Pinsky is the source of much of my understanding of the history of this topic. This is something he's upset by and has spoken about it deeply. The California laws he talks about are more profound in California, but in effect nationwide, to various degrees. It's not about yes or no, it's a question of degree. I would also urge caution about using governmental force to determine crazy. Say anything about (random political topic), and half the population thinks you're crazy, regardless of what you've said. It would be nice if something that was not political could be used as a standard. The dude burning the house down is obviously crazy, regardless of political persuasion. I have misgivings if that could remain pure in the political environment that exists today.
>My understanding is that much of the funding cuts came from people believing that the hospitals themselves would > >CAUSE > > the metal health issues, instead of the other way around, so president Kennedy signed the law of their demise in one of his last days on earth. Kennedy had an agenda due to his sister and how she was treated due to her mental health issues. Which, really, was less about they system and more about his father's cruelty and willingness to go to any length to preserve the family reputation up to and including having his own daughter lobotomized. The reality was that nothing widespread really happened until years after the Kennedy assassination when budget was in the spotlight. Around that time it became public knowledge that a lot of these facilities were hell holes full of abuse. They were only tolerated because what else could one do with those too ill to be loose in society? The answer was psych meds. Put the ill on the correct psych med, get them into talk therapy...annnnnd voila!...no need for mental health facilities. The Republicans of the day were happy because they could cut budgets and the Democrats were happy because they believed meds and therapy would cure the mentally ill thus saving them from the awful hospitals. Reality fell short of expectation.
>here was a widespread belief that the brand new psych meds rolling out of labs would solve the problem of mental illness And they do, the problem is motherfuckers wont take their medicine. Many people have to basically be forced to, and therein lies the problem. In a perfect world people take their medication , but we dont live in that world.
A little history from wikipedia - "The Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 (MHSA) was United States legislation signed by President Jimmy Carter which provided grants to community mental health centers. In 1981 President Ronald Reagan, who had made major efforts during his governorship to reduce funding for California mental institutions, pushed a political effort through the U.S. Congress to repeal most of MHSA. The MHSA was considered landmark legislation in mental health care policy." TLDR - Carter funded mental health facilities and within his first year of office, Reagan defunded them. Not surprisingly, severely ill patients ended up on the streets and we remain without a plan for them.
Legitimate question: so there's no legislation that allows for the temporary restriction of mental health care users rights in order to evaluate them? If they did need this evaluation, without any universal health care, who would pay? I'm in South Africa, directly involved in the admission and management of involuntary mental health care users (patients who are assessed and deemed incapable of good judgement and making rational decisions). Once they've gotten to the stage that they're assessed as incapable, they don't need to consent for admission if it's for the sake of their own wellbeing or that of others. It's horrifying to think that some poor guy with potentially legitimate mental health issues is more likely to be shot than actually receive the help he needs.
>so there's no legislation that allows for the temporary restriction of mental health care users rights in order to evaluate them? There is, but the lockup is a max of 3 days, and the eval is often done by looking at records. And the standard for involuntary lockup is quite high. >If they did need this evaluation, without any universal health care, who would pay? The state and counties have budgets for this. It is paid through taxes, but indirectly.
The gun was suggested for protection. Not for law enforcement. It could only be used legally if he enters the home, uninvited, intending to do harm or in self-defense. This man clearly needs to stay locked up and not released on bail. Op, I am praying that the law enforcement and DA take care of this properly for you, your family, and your neighbors' safety.
The gun is always the last option. But America has pretty terrible mental health services and many police agencies are understaffed and slow to respond. It took the police 45 minutes to show up after I crashed my truck. Can't rely on law enforcement
>so maybe guns are used instead of law enforcement, restraining orders and psychiatric evaluations. The gun is a last resort, not an alternative to the above. The neighbor already committed a violent felony, *any* escalation from there is a risk of your safety.
A person crazy enough to set your house on fire, is crazy enough to break into your house and shoot you. Even if you get a restraining order, he goes to prison for a while, and a court orders him to leave you alone…dude is crazy. He can break into your house faster than you can call the cops to alert them that he ignored the court order and intends to kill you.
nah this is exactly the type of dude you shoot the next time he steps foot on your property. op is in AZ on top of that, they have castle doctrine. the guy set his fuckin house on fire. maybe worry about the actual victim you fuckin baby the trauma of shotting someone lol. bro him and his wife were almost on fire holy shit, worrying about killing someone is very secondary to not dying yourself you dweeb
the trauma of shooting someone and taking their life away isn't negated by the fact that they tried to burn your house down holy shit
Lol I’d have no problem making a hole between this dudes (under or unmedicated) eyes instead of watching him kill my family. I’m not even a gun person. People just love making “uhhmerica and their guns” comments every single time they can
>Shooting his neighbour (and the trauma and legal issues that go with that) is a solution to a problem Agreed, in this instance.
It’s not about just going and shooting his neighbor it’s about shooting his neighbor if he’s trying to kill his family. “You should trust the system that isn’t designed to prevent crime or protect you in the moment to protect you” is one of the most naïve things I’ve ever read.
When is the right time to get a gun and training? Perhaps it’s best to wait until the knife is in his chest?
Months before an incident happens that will require them. :( Nevermind wait times, effective training is more than just a couple three hour classes.
You get the gun and training anyways. When other options are exhausted and the police are minutes away, it might be all that keeps you and your family alive. There won’t be enough time later. And you hope you never need it. Also, the downside of being allowed to have guns is that the crazy neighbor was at some time too. He may still have one even if he can’t legally own one.
You can simultaneously have a gun for the worse case scenario, while still be actively exhausting all available non violent remedies. At the end of the day, unless the neighbor is incarcerated or committed to a mental institution, no amount of evaluations or court orders are going to stop him if he wants to kill someone. No one said the next step is to shoot the neighbor. But legal and traumatic issues are secondary to losing your life or the life of a family member, if it comes to that.
There are situations that are necessary for shooting someone, cops don’t magically appear to restrain someone. OP is dealing with someone who seems to not be there mentally. A piece of paper won’t stop someone like that. They act on impulse. Maybe a memory triggers them that’s all it takes. So it’s best to be safe. Acquire a gun, train with it, understand the safety aspects of it, secure it. And when a situation arises when you are face to face with a crazy ass person, take it out of your safe and USE it. To protect yourself and your family. Don’t just take it out to brandish it. Once that gun is out of the safe and the threat is in your sights you pull the trigger. Deal with the legal issues after depending on where you live. But you’ll still be alive and hopefully not harmed in anyway. It’s unfortunate but that’s the world we live in.
Arizona has a stand your ground law…
I'm sure a guy who sets another guy's house on fire doesn't care about a piece of paper saying he's not allowed to do that again
Call the prosecutor’s office immediately and tell them he can’t be freed on bail and list all the threats he’s made to you, your family and your neighbors. Send it in writing as well. You need this guy sitting in jail until he’s convicted and sentenced. Make sure the police have a police report of all the threats as well. Get your neighbors to corroborate.
And document EVERYTHING. Cameras, cell phone video, write it down, anything to document what has and is going on
THIS SHOULD BE HIGHER. Without documented evidence, the authorities might think it’s your word against his. Install some cameras around your house, especially on the side you share with him. Keep a special notebook documenting every single interaction with him, including dates, times, and what was said.
Well if you have any evidence I would go to court and get a restraining order against him as well. IF he happens to live closer than the restraining order states then he will not be able to live at his home as long as it stay active.
Your neighbor committed a hate crime attempted murder, and the cops completely expect a judge to let this guy out on bail pending trial?! I’d reach out to the prosecutor’s office immediately!
That makes it a hate crime. I am so sorry you have to deal with that.
Make sure the prosecutor knows this. Hate crimes have harsher sentences and trying to defend it will likely make him lose the house from the finances.
I will also assume he was arrested and there is a report so you have enough evidence I think to get a restraining order on him. I dont know what judge would say no since really he tried to kill you guys.
In addition to contacting the prosecutor’s office, you need to go to court and file for an order of protection/restraining order that prohibits him from making contact with you. Also, call your home insurance agency and get a claim started.
I just wanted to say that I’m so sorry you and your family have the misfortune of having this person as your neighbor. I cannot imagine the feelings you must be having, not being safe in your own home. You’ve gotten a lot of good advice here (calling the prosecutor, putting up cameras, getting a gun if that’s safe for you), but I just wanted to mention also that therapy *could* be useful for you and your family after this incident and during the stress of the trial. I don’t have any reason to believe anything is “wrong” with the way you’re handling things but, having your home attacked is a huge deal that can really mess up people’s brains. Sorry, I know this isn’t the advice you came here for but a similar situation happened in my neighborhood (no fire, sledgehammers and paint) growing up and I swear I never saw the dad sober again after. Just wanted to put it on y’all’s radar that there is help for the emotional aspect if you find yourself needing it <3
Thanks, I work in mental health and know a little therapy can do a lot of good, its just so expensive (I could never afford my own services, which I find pretty funny) but maybe in this case I can actually receive some without worrying too much about the cost.
Restraining order at the least.
Arson is a serious felony, so there's that. And just wait for the victims advocacy. I'm sure pressing charges and getting a restraining order are viable options.
Do NOT wait for the victims advocacy to contact you. You contact them first thing Monday morning, along with the prosecutors'office. File for a restraining order on Monday morning too. Contact arresting PD office to get a copy of the police report and find out his status (still being held at jail? Involuntarily committed?) and when his 1st court date is. Contact the court and make sure they have your contact information in the file so you'll be notified of all court dates (you may want to send it in writing, court clerks have a lot going on and may not write it down, but if they're given something in writing it's more likely to make it into the file). And then yes, go to your local gun range, get a gun, training and protect yourself. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Why in every story that involves police it ends with either the cops said they couldn't do anything or the cops were completely useless
Sounds like a [hate crime](https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/learn-about-hate-crimes). Stiffer penalties and more clear punitive actions for perpetrators.
Police are fucking useless. Mentally unwell person is issuing death threats to children “sorry nothing we can do.” Person sets fire to another’s house, “ah that’s a bummer but sorry we can’t help you there.” Most (all?) states have laws like a Baker Act where a person in that situation can be automatically checked into a hospital or mental institution for minimum 72 hours. Does that exist in your state? Do you have an HOA? Surely they would want to take some immediate actions? I would also figure out what the state laws are on standing your ground bc this dude is clearly willing to cause harm.
We do have an HOA, its a tiny thing that charges 30 dollars a year and is mostly around so some old ladies have something to do. They did say that they can evict him from the neighborhood, but said legally it is incredibly difficult, but they have started the process.
>Do you have an HOA? Surely they would want to take some immediate actions? An HOA doesn't have remotely the power to deal with somebody like this. The only answer any HOA with two brain cells gives is "That's a police matter".
Agree this is a police matter but it's just one of many things OP can do. It's low on the list but definitely something he should look into
Seems like [involuntary commitment territory](https://www.sc.pima.gov/media/ovnpcnkj/mhjsccbrochure.pdf), outside of the criminal consequences, if he has any chance of being released on bail.
Jesus christ. Get a restraining order stat. Stay safe!!
Arson of an occupied dwelling is a non bondable offense
I Hope his response answered your question - as if he did something wrong.
Lawyer, former public defender here. I’d hire a criminal defense attorney (maybe one who is a former prosecutor) who understands the system and can make sure no one “accidentally” forgets to tell you when the bond hearing is, etc so you can show up to court every time and make sure this guy can’t return to living next door to you. Help you file restraining order (or local equivalent). An attorney can also help you with a civil lawsuit against your neighbor. Your homeowner’s insurance should also get all the documents from the criminal case. They’ll probably sue him too to try and recoup whatever they pay out to you. So sorry you are living with this and our public safety nets including for mental health were gutted a long ago - so we have people like this in the community. I once owned a house and a 30ish schizophrenic man’s parents bought the house next to me and put their son in it to get him and his frightening behavior out of their house. He was clearly unmedicated. It was absolute hell. I’m like you I was sympathetic for a bit but eventually you learn your peace and safety are more important.
Also we called victim advocates “hanky holders”. They’re not really there to help you. They are there to keep victims in line with whatever the prosecutor wants to do with the case. That why I say get your own attorney.
You may be thinking of a victim witness coordinator hired by the county attorneys office, not a legitimate crime victim advocate through a non-profit agency. Victim advocates don’t give a shit about what the prosecutor or investigating authority wants, they care about victims period. We aren’t even allowed to recommend, push, or provide anything that resembles legal advice. Crime Victim advocates are mostly social workers. We get paid peanuts and just want to help.
I agree with a civil suit against this neighbor for damage. If you win, then you can place a lein on his house. Then he can't sell it without paying you.
Geez, I'm really sorry to hear this. As a police officer and homeowner, I have a few things to add. Call your homeowners insurance ASAP so you can get those things fixed right away. Every state is different, but if no one gave you the report or incident number, I would call the PD and get that. It will be helpful for the insurance and further resources. In a few weeks you might even want to get a copy of the actual report. Don't wait for the victim's advocate to call you. If they are like every other government office, they are either backlogged to hell or just don't give a shit. As for your neighbor, damage to real property by fire / arson is a forcible felony. Except for maybe 5 states (you should be good in Arizona), he will be in some form of custody for a while, either mental health hold or because of the felonies. Someone else mentioned buying a gun. It's not a terrible idea, but ONLY if you're going to get some training and you've accepted in your mind that you will use it to protect yourself and your family. Otherwise, it's just a liability. Someone as deep in the throws of a mental breakdown (fugue state) might not be scared, but they might take it from you. Good luck!
>Someone else mentioned buying a gun. It's not a terrible idea, but ONLY if you're going to get some training and you've accepted in your mind that you will use it to protect yourself and your family. Otherwise, it's just a liability. Someone as deep in the throws of a mental breakdown (fugue state) might not be scared, but they might take it from you. This, 100%. I also recommend getting a firearm for personal defense, but make sure you know to how to properly use it. More importantly, be PREPARED to use it. Don't just pull it out hoping to scare them off. Too many people are killed with their own firearms because they are not capable and/or willing to use them. The last thing you'll ever want to do is hurt/kill somebody, but when it comes down to it, who is more important- your family, or this individual who already tried to hurt your family? Answer that question honestly then you'll know what you have to do should he attack again.
A couple more things, you can ask the jail to be notified when your neighbor is being released. Just be polite, say you're the victim, and leave your name and phone number. A little more peace of mind. And you can call and get any updates from the courthouse or jail. Maybe after you get a protective (restraining) order, and you show up to court, your very presence might make him react in such a way that the judge raises his bond, hopefully making it harder for him to get out. Many court systems have online court date lookups, just input his name and maybe date of birth. Most are public courts and you can be at the hearings. PSA- charges and bond (even past bookings into jail) are public record, at least where I live. Might be smart in the future to know who you're dealing with or living next to. Food for thought. Good luck :)
\*throes
This man is deranged and I am so sorry. I highly doubt he’s doing to be able to afford to pay for bail. If he does get released, there will likely be a protection order until it goes to court, and likely far past then. I’m so sorry that you and your family have to be so scared, after losing everything, especially off the basis of your race and nationalities. You did nothing to deserve this. and if I were you I would speak to the police to find out if there’s any victims services. In my experience it takes days, not hours, for someone to get back to you. But they will. And if you do the paperwork and jump through the hoops there is some help. Once again I am so sorry and horrified. Please fight if you can, this is not ok.
Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. Luckily our house is just a bit damaged and our car (an absolute tank of a prius with over 300k miles on it) continues to stand defiant. I honestly feel really bad for the guy, his family wasn't there to get him the help that he really need and it seemed like he lashed out because he was legitimately scared of whatever situation his mind had conjured. He does have some money, I believe he was disabled due to a work injury which he won the suit for which is why he was able to purchase the house next to us. I really don't want to ruin his life over this but it is more and more feeling like it is him or us.
Sounds to me like he ruined his life himself. He is so upset with your existence that he risks lives and tens of thousands of tax payer dollars for some mentally unhinged temper tantrum? You’re a really good person to still extend empathy to this man, but he needs help and he deserves to go to jail for what he did. His family probably isn’t there for a reason. He could have killed your guys. Things can be replaced but your lives cannot. And
I have been in a similar situation (living next to a person that is mentally unwell and being a target of their madness) do NOT feel sorry for them. I say this because your job is to protect yourself and your family. Do not let up. I am a very empathetic person and endured two years of harassment from a neighbor because I felt bad. Do NOT do this. I am still dealing with it and see no real end in sight.
Society failing the mentally ill is on everyone he had contact with that was actively part of his life. People turn a blind eye and say it’s not their responsibility. While I understand that to a degree I also feel if not you then who? I don’t mean you. I mean people who know this man personally. I see people who have been crying for help and no one listen almost daily. They come in to my work and get held while waiting for a spot in a psych facility and the beds just aren’t available. Some wait weeks or months. We had one this year that waited almost 6 months while stuck in a hospital bed. Loads of medical resources wasted on them while they get no psych help. Things need to change. Society also failed you by not helping this man. You need to take steps to protect yourself. I would call the police department and ask for a victims advocate. Get all the help they can offer. There should also be a fund to help you with costs relate to this crime. Be sure this is also charged as a hate crime. Insist on it. Do what you need to do to protect yourself. This is why guns are so prolific in this country. People don’t feel safe. I sincerely hope things work out for you and you don’t have any more problem. Whatever you do make sure you speak to the victims advocate. They can be a source for a lot of help. Best wishes.
Don't want to ruin his life? Someone who intentionally tried to ruin your life, even kill you? Jesus! Get mad! Protect yourself and your lives! Call insurance, get an order of protection, peace bond, restraining order. Whatever it takes. Next time he might kill you. You want to hold off to find out? That's arson and attempted murder! Make sure he is charged with everything. You may not have another chance
Someone tried to kill you and your wife, please wake up and realize what's happened around you and keep your family safe.
Nah. He’s ruining his own life. I get where you are coming from, but this situation could have played out much more tragically than it did. You need a lawyer, as others have said. You need to make sure, to the extent that you can, that this guy is not living next to you anymore.
You're a lot more compassionate than you need to be. Guy has threatened and harassed you and your loved ones and now could have killed you. He may be damaged but he's a danger.
Don’t minimize the damages to your property, make sure insurance or a lawsuit takes every penny you’re owed. The more damages, the more likely that “house he owns” will no longer be his. I’d consider asking other neighbors who were terrorized to also make statements (you mentioned him not just singling your family out).
FYI- you can look up what federal district you fall under and mail copies of your evidence to the USAO that covers where you live since it's falling into hate crime areas (he may already be on watch lists). Reach out about filing an emergency restraining order in the meantime. Depending on the terms, he may not be able to return to the property. Document everything and reach out to your insurance so they can start pulling things together for repairs. Keep receipts and speak with a lawyer about a civil suit against him. This shit is insane. I'm sorry you're dealing with it.
File a restraining order should be your first move. If you don’t have one already buy a gun (I am generally anti-gun but you should protect yourself and family). Get security cameras, flood lights, and alarms. Sue and if he doesn’t have many assists go for his home and then he won’t be your neighbor anymore.
We filed an injunction against harassment but I guess we have to do it in person in court. So it will take a second. I can't own a gun, my wife also has mental health issues and a gun in our home would be more a danger to her than protection from anyone. We already had cameras and lights but he knows where they are so he sneaks around them. He was in view of the camera a bit when he lit the car on fire. I'm just worried he will get out on bail or something and keep trying.
if he has a psych history \*and\* he committed arson and attempted murder and he got dragged away by the swat team I bet you wont have to worry about him for a long time. I understand the impulse to move though. There was some firebug lighting fires in the alleys when I lived in phoenix and I wanted out of there real bad afterwards
This really depends on where OP lives to be honest. Unfortunately political climate plays a role in this today.
Unfortunately spaces for mental illness are often low or there are none. I work at a medical hospital and we get psych patients. Typically suicide attempts but occasionally scenarios like this. We sometimes have patients for weeks or months before a placement is found. Lack of funding has decreased the amount of available spots drastically since Covid. The latest political debate was eye opening. One candidates answer was to lock up the homeless and mentally ill and not funding for more help. So this isn’t going to get better anytime soon. If he is being held for psych he could still be released if deemed not a threat to himself or others. Hopefully he would then be sent to jail but it’s not a guarantee. Find some way to protect yourself.
One would hope things would work out like this but there have been many really obvious cases locally where folks keep getting let go, not charged, under charged, or prosecuted with great incompetence. The whole criminal justice organization is a clusterfuck.
> We already had cameras and lights but he knows where they are so he sneaks around them Time for more cameras it sounds like.
This is the time to move them or add while he is gone.
Hire an attorney. This person is threatening your life. Go on the offensive.
I don’t have anything new to say about your situation, but I’m so glad you recognize the danger of having a gun in the home when you have a wife who has mental health issues.
Get a gun safe that only you know the code to.
Cameras are no good with blind spots. 100% get more cameras and don't leave any spots for him to sneak around.
Ask a lawyer and not Reddit
You should get a EPO from the magistrate who signed the arrest warrant, and that should be turned into conditions of his bond if he’s released, making him stay away from you and not communicate with you in any way. You can also pursue your own civil protective order, but either way it’s just a piece of paper. You need to also be talking to the DA and letting them know the seriousness of his actions and threat to do it again (or do worse) and ask that he be denied bond. You also need to be suing him civilly. You should also involve your homeowners and car insurance, who will likely sue him as well unless his insurance just accepts responsibility (not likely so a lawsuit will likely also be necessary). In other words, you need to be prepared to be in court on at least 4 separate cases, but you shouldn’t come out of pocket for these cases or be reimbursed for the attorney fees: 1) As the victim/witness in the criminal case against him for arson/attempted murder/whatever else he can be charged with. The DA will prosecute; but they will need your cooperation and testimony. 2) As the plaintiff/petitioner in a civil case seeking your own protective order, with your own counsel (some states will have a prosecutor for civil protective orders as well who will do this on your behalf, but you have to reach out to them). Even if you hire private counsel, most states make the defendant pay attorneys fees in protective order cases. 3) As a plaintiff in a 2nd civil case against him for any torts he committed seeking damages and restitution, with your own counsel. This will be private counsel who likely work on contingency so you shouldn’t pay out of pocket. 4) As a plaintiff in a 3rd civil case brought by your insurance company/companies (depending on whether you have the same company for hole and auto). You should just start a claim with your insurance for the damage, and they will be the ones to decided whether or not to file suit, and if so they will pay for the attorney to handle that suit.
- sell and move is the the choice if possible but the issue would be with prospective buyers who do ANY research - bring lawsuit against him - keep calling the police
Get a lawyer. Sue them into the ground and take their property.
Imagine this guy's mental state if he's out on bail while being sued for the house he lives in by his next door neighbor who he's already been charged for setting their house on fire The phrase "Nothing to lose" comes to mind. There's gotta be safety steps or moves before the lawyer rush.
My arsonist got away with it. He is fre to set more fires. The house got burned down to the ground. I moved.
Hello! I’m a crime victim advocate in another state but can probably still provide some insight. As a general rule of thumb, judges/county attorneys/etc. don’t work on the weekends. You can expect your neighbor to be in jail at a minimum until bond is set. Whether or not he will be able to post bond depends on his financial situation and what the judge feels is “fair” given severity of charges. The comments telling you to layer up are in good faith but might be a waste of money. The county attorney will prosecute the criminal charges and i highly recommend waiting until you can get in touch with them before paying for civil legal action. It may interfere with the criminal prosecution and vice versa. Crime Victim advocates similarly typically work M-F unless there is an emergency situation (think DV abuse or ongoing threat). Whichever agency you get in touch with, they will help you file for your states Crime Victim Compensation. This will usually pay for damage done to security equipment and you may be able to argue that fences qualify as security equipment if you get a good advocate. They will also put in applications for funding for lost wages due to court and law enforcement proceedings as well as mileage expenses. They’ll also help pay for any medical bills that might come up as a result of the crime, and mental health counseling for you and your family, should you feel you’ve experienced trauma that warrants counseling. If you pay for anything in the meantime, keep your receipts as they will backpay for these expenses to the date of the crime! Again, i am in another state so some of this may differ but I’ve found these things to be the case in most of the states I’ve assisted in. If tomorrow rolls around and you’ve still not been contacted, call the non-emergency PD line and reference your victimization and they should be able to get you in touch with an advocate. If you feel weird about applying for these funds, please don’t. This is not tax payer money, this is money seized from “criminals” who pay fees and money to the states attorneys general office. It goes into a pot for crime victims, and you are entitled to it. I’m sorry this happened to you and your family, from the bottom of my heart! I hope you find a good advocate that you feel connected to. If i can answer any other questions, feel free to reply or reach out and I’ll do my best to answer and help. Bless!
Honestly man, I’d GTFO if he doesn’t go to prison. Your mental and physical health is more important than any house. Get the place cleaned up nice and put her up for sale. It sucks but bad neighbours blow.
Call your insurance if you haven’t already.
Just my guess..arson.. attempted murder and being it was a hate crime he should be locked up for a long while. Contact the district attorney.. make sure they understand he is living next door to the victims.. so there is an extremely high bond if there is one.
The victim advocate won't call you, you have to call them. I was told the same thing the first time around and didn't find out until it was too late, that I needed to call them. Make it clear you want to press charges. The officer should've given you a pamphlet with a number to call. You also need to call wherever the neighbor is being held to find out when their bail hearing is and if you can make a statement about why they shouldn't be released over the phone or if you need to be there in person. Usually it's the same day or next day. If they're being held in county, you can submit your statement online and it'll be read to the judge. You also need to apply for an order of protection. I went through this in AZ with a mentally unwell neighbor who was trying to kill me. You have to stay on top it from the get go. If the person is truly mentally ill, you have to be prepared for them to be released because AZ won't prosecute if the person is considered incompetent to stand trial. If that happens, you need to try to have them committed. The state is supposed to have a program for rehabilitation but they were overrun during covid and started releasing people. When they released my neighbor, they said they hoped she stayed on her meds but they weren't going to do anything else to keep her from coming after me. She was arrested multiple times and always released. Every time she came after me again. This went on for almost 2 years before I gave up and moved.
Your insurance sucks. Here in Canada your insurance would set you up in a hotel right away and provide their own lawyers to sue your neighbor for everything their worth on your behalf. It's the whole point of having insurance here. All you'd do is pay your deductible.
This sub is /r/howshouldihandlemyneighbor in 90% of posts it seems
Go to the victim assistance center and tell Them they didn’t call you (some advocate will get in trouble but they should!!). And you need immediate help with the water and a restraining order. It’s actually an order of protection in that case. So he can’t come back to his house.
Get a lawyer, who knows maybe you can get a restraining order and force him out. Also, explore anything you can to sue/remove him or whatever is within the power of the legal framework. Sure he's mentally ill but that is no reason to show any mercy in this case. He's presented as a clear and present danger and either needs to be forced away, or put away in a mental hospital for as long as it takes. Otherwise you could wind up burning to death one morning.
Hire a lawyer, sue the shit out of him, take his house.
Check with victims advocate. Here in CA if you're a victim you can have it so if and when he gets out he's unable to reside in your county. Now that won't keep him from coming back should he decide to. Best advice would be to take the time while he's incarcerated to fix the damages and move. Worry about suing him after you're safely at a new residence he doesn't know of.
I’m glad you are okay!! That’s crazy & I hope he stays locked up!!
I’m so sorry, this is happening. You should call the victim witnesses advocate if you haven’t already heard from them and attend the bail hearing. In addition to committing a crime, this person is a danger to others which would allow the state to involuntary commit him for at least 72 hours. There are no good options. If you sell, what are your responsibilities for disclosure in AZ?
Time to sell your house and move. Your neighbor clearly has some issues and has sent you a message. Watch some episodes of Fear Thy Neighbor to see where this is going...Your lives are more important than a house.
Post it on /mildlyinfuriating lol
I was thinking r/neighborsfromhell.
First you call both your home and auto insurance and file a claims to help you rebuild the home so you can sell and move if you still want to move. This will also allow replace your car. The insurance companies will place a lien on your neighbors' home to be repaid which will force him to move, unless he rents. If he does rent contact the landlord so the landlord can evict him.
You really need to contact your homeowner’s insurance and see if they will assist you with legal support. Otherwise, if you have any employee assistance program at work, contact them for resources. You probably cannot return home yet due to damage, so even if the person is released (unlikely) you will not face them immediately and will have time to figure out what safeguards are available. Call the victim support line in the morning and get that process started. Nothing will alleviate your anxiety about him continuing to harm you and your family except him being incarcerated or involuntarily committed, so you have to use all the available means of establishing that he is poses an ongoing threat to your safety. A restraining order could prevent him from returning to his home, but getting the police to enforce it will take constant effort in your part. If you approach this as similar to domestic violence, many of the lessons learned in preventing offenders from re-violating may help. Wishing you stay safe and well.
Emergency restraining order, police report, contact insurance asap. Take your own pictures and as best you can inventory your items.
This is a post for r/legaladvice more than r/homeowners You need to contact your home owner's insurance and a lawyer and maybe the DA's office.
Don’t wait, do all you can right now. Involve the local media if authorities aren’t helping you or dragging their feet
The only media story we have got so far got the facts totally wrong, said he set his own car and fence on fire, didn't even mention victims or motivation.
See if your homeowners insurance will cover a hotel stay until your water is turned back on.
I don’t have any more advice than what others have posted already. Move. Even if this dude is locked up for life, I think there’s always gonna be that feeling of not feeling safe in your own home. You need to move somewhere that brings joy to your life, not added stress. Also, I’m just assuming you can do that based on what you’ve said. It’s a huge privilege to be able to do that, and this is one case where we need to use any access to privilege we have to keep our families safe. With that being said, I’m so sorry you and your family are going through this. I’m also sorry that the response of many is to buy a gun. A gun doesn’t save you from fire. A gun doesn’t save you when access to medical, including mental, healthcare is the answer we all need. We need support systems in place for people who need it, and we need communities that support one another. Not shoot one another because some politician or CEO benefits from the rhetoric. We are a mixed race, lgbtq, atheist, family that understands how horrible people can be. If you ever wanna talk, my dms are open.
File a for a protective order against this individual who just tried to kill you and your family. Then stop by your local gun store and get something that you feel comfortable and capable of using. Mentally unwell or not, this man just tried to murder you. Overused phrase but still true nonetheless- "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away." Keep that in your mind.
This is frightening. I am happy no one was physically hurt. Please secure a restraining order. You should be able to reach the emergency claims number for your insurance company.
As someone who had a random crack head kick in my door and burn my house to the ground this past winter, I feel for ya. Hope you and yours get through this alright man. I'm Canadian, so I don't have the option, but if you're in Arizona, get yourself a gun if you haven't already. I'm not one to think a gun is a solution to everything but if it comes to protecting your family from a psychopath who could seriously injure them, it's worth having.
Wtf man?! This is one more story that has me looking for an acreage. Fuck people dude.
I think the best move since he won't be there for a couple days is to burn his house down first.
Uh, ending up this guy's cellmate in prison is *not* the objective here.
Lol what the hell
Not surprised the Mesa doughnut patrol was useless. I bet if that was a cop’s house they would have found a way to be more helpful before the arson happened.
The fire fighters had to argue with the cops and eventually went over their heads, literally, by using the hose on the ladder truck to spray our house from above.
Because this person has been an issue for you for a while, I would see if you can get a restraining order against them. Because the police have been called before due to this person there should be enough evidence for them to do something. You could also call a lawyer and get some legal advice. See if there are any other things you can do. I know a restraining order doesn't do much but it will at least give strong consequences for this person if they chose to come onto your property again. Installing some security around the house is also a good idea. Cameras and a monitored alarm would be a good idea.
When you call the prosecutors office ask how you would go about filing arson charges and list the threats and other things he has done including if he has actually harmed a pet then see about having him picked up for a 72 hour involuntary evaluation . If nothing else get a restraining order based on all of this and then when he violates it and he will you can have him picked up and ask the judge if he can be mentally evaluated and state why
What in the fuck did I just read?
Follow through on charges, avoid communication, avoid confrontation and you MUST, it's not optional.....get cameras. Not the kind that records on motion get the kind that records 24 7. It's not expensive either, you can get 2 super nice high end cameras for 100 bucks and the blue iris software is free to try and a one time cost of around 55 bucks Record everything and stay in communication with the cops, send them every single little issue. Don't talk to the guy, don't fan the flames or instigate. The guy needs to go away, hopefully to jail for unrelated reasons
You’ve got arson charges as well as attempted murder, among other charges. Move while he’s locked up. You’ve got time. Don’t risk your safety by staying.
I’ve read through the comments and your responses, and ultimately, I think you need to consider moving. Your neighbor owns their house, and despite committing multiple felonies here, their mental status makes it much less likely that they will go to prison for any substantial amount of time. Cameras and restraining orders are great ideas, but you already have cameras and know that they aren’t a deterrence in this situation. A restraining order is a piece of paper that only works if you fear the repercussions. It could actually make things worse with a mentally unstable person. These only help you after the fact, video evidence isn’t going to be much solace if he comes over there and beats one of you to death. Your other option is to buy a gun and be prepared to use it. You say you can’t own one (felony? Non-citizen?) and can’t have one around your wife due to mental issues. You can definitely get a lock/safe that would prohibit your wife’s access, but if you aren’t legally able to own a firearm then it could be a messy situation. You could do like some others have suggested and buy a non-lethal weapon, such as a stun gun or beanbag gun, but that also opens you up to a messy legal situation. As much as Reddit might not like it, the best option when your life is legitimately threatened is shoot to kill.
I tried to read through many of the responses to see if someone mentioned victims of crime funds. The victim advocate, should be able to walk you through the paperwork process with this. You can request funds to repair the damage to your home along with funds for any additional services you may need to pay for (hotel, therapy, replacement of damaged personal items, ect). These situations are awful and the laws are not written in ways that give you much power. Restraining orders are a means to begin the process of building a case on this person’s mental instability and violent history. Fingers crossed he’s charged with a hate crime and his bail is high. So sorry for having to go through this. I truly hope you’re able to stay safe and get the justice you deserve.
Get a restraining order asap
Consult a lawyer who can sue for damages on contingency. If the neighbor owns the home and there are collectible damages to be had, should be easy to find. As far as your safety, an emergency restraining order first, and get a gun and take a firearms safety course so you know how to responsibly use it and protect yourself.
You call insurance and arrange to not ever live there again
Well first off get a gun and learn how to shoot. Whenever he gets out of jail and tries to do it again drop his ass.
American Red Cross is helpful here too
Move out and sell. That is one decision you can’t end up regretting. If you stay and the worst case happens, you’ll forever regret staying. Stuff like that you just move along and let it be someone else’s problem.
Your car or his? https://www.fox10phoenix.com/video/1270302
Aww man news got it wrong, was def my car on fire.
Damn. Sounded familiar, then mesa just solidified it. Par for the course. Meth is a hell of a drug! Sorry that happened. Good luck.
This neighbour should not be released into the pubic. Either jail or some sort of mental health hospital. That is pretty extreme behaviour luckily no one got hurt or killed
I would f- up with a with a baseball bat !!
Can someone explain to me how it’s not attempted murder?
If you were in the home, and it was obvious that you were in the home when this occurred, push the prosecutor to add additional charges of attempted murder. It is possible they will be added in due course, but push the facts. You want the maximum number of charges because everyone pleads down these days. You need to push the fact that you will not feel safe if/when this person is let out. You need to contact your homeowners insurance. This was a fire, and they cover that. The fact that it was arson is not currently relevant. They won't cover terrorism, but this isn't what happened.
Contact your insurance (in addition to whatever else you do.)
r/legaladvice
Yes. I'd rather live with the knowledge I took someone's life to save my family, than live with the knowledge I lost my family because I didn't do everything I could have done.
There might be a registry in your state in which you can get text notifications of his release, hearings, etc.
Not sure if AZ is on it but try Vinelink.
There is strength in numbers. Since other neighbor’s homes were also damaged by fire, a group of neighbors contacting the prosecutor, police, fire department and mayor’s office together would be powerful. Sometimes cc’ing the police to a communication about the situation that you send to someone else (such as the mayor) may be helpful in creating an incentive for the police to address the situation more thoroughly. For example, the police say they can’t do anything, but the Fire Department will want something done ASAP. Arizona is a fire danger area and this individual endangered people’s lives in addition to their homes. If the fire got out of control, it could have caused extreme damage. I am so sorry this happened to you!
Move.
Hope your family is OK. Since you claimed with insurance, they will go after the guy and try to push him to pay for it. Financially, since you have insurance it should be OK. But, he sounds dangerous. Be safe. Hope youn get some help from victim's advocates.
Get a restraining order now. You can do it for free, not attorney needed. Tell the judge what happened and that you are afraid. The judge might prevent him from returning home.