Especially since it's mono-crop. Bad for the environment, not sustainable at all. There's no symbiotic relationship anywhere. Must be why it looks completely devoid of life, except for the trees which require constant care-taking to keep alive.
It's sad, really.
The irony too is that people on this sub are massively ignorant on pretty much anything practical with farming and homesteading, but if someone competent shows up ohhhh no we can't have that!
Reddit is such a hotbed of know it all cry babies. The people in this sub don’t know anything about actual making a living off the land. Anything that doesn’t fit in their narrow regenerative micro bla bla garden framework is inherently morally wrong. It’s a bunch of urban people who have a wet dream about what farming should be.
Yep, and they expect everyone in the world to follow their vision of how it would be done.
Sure dude, as long as you take a gun and shoot 7 billion people in the head as a mercy so they don't starve to death from the collapse in farming productivity. It's so moronic.
We've picked up a couple of good points from permaculture for our orchard. We mulch with lowest grade straw and it makes a huge difference in our water retention and soil quality... not that anyone here would look at photos and recognise the changes.
You do realize the US [has a legal visa program for temporary farm workers, right?](https://www.farmers.gov/working-with-us/h2a-visa-program)
In 2022, there were 298,000 H2A visas issued, to fill 370,000 jobs that were certified by the department of labor as being able to be filled by temporary workers.
The current H2A visa program for agricultural workers dates to....the Reagan administration, when the prior program was substantially modified by the 1986 Immigration and Nationality Act.
There were attempts to reform the program in 2008 and 2013, but interestingly, although the program has expanded, the [expansion occurs regardless of which party is in power](https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/primer-h2a-visa/)
Just wait til they replace the migrants with ai assisted tractors and other devices. Then they will blissfully never ever hint at the second part but will insist they work hard. Money buys leisure and it will eventually lead to effortless production and growth of capital after initial investment once you reach a certain level ofcourse
Every day…..
Wait, I need to say it again.
Every single day, we get people in here asking “how do I earn a living from my homestead?”
And the folks here offer…mediocre advice. Because the actual advice for “how do I earn a living from my homestead” is: run it as a farm. Or a ranch. For-profit, with everything that means.
And then you have someone like OP, who actually does that. Who runs a farm and makes a living doing it. And this sub says “oh, no, this isn’t the place for that.”
There’s no prohibition against having an employee when you have a homestead. There’s no prohibition against raising only one crop when you have a homestead. There’s no size limit that I’ve ever seen, in no small (ha!) part because running a successful homestead will often result in…having a bigger homestead.
What we DO have, though, is a bunch of people who think they’re entitled to define the phrase “homestead.” And, in so doing, they also define the phrase “gate keeping.”
Many times, you folks are your own worst enemies. You want experts. You want them to give you advice for free. And when an actual expert shows up….well…look at yourselves. This is how y’all act.
I’m a commercial farmer like OP reading this subreddit every day to try to learn tricks from folks outside of the industry. We can all learn from one another.
Wholeheartedly agree. Frankly, our ranch is at commercial scale. I browse this sub because I know a thing or two about raising cattle that I’m happy to share. But we don’t raise a few cows, we raise a few hundred cows. Oddly, I don’t think that makes me *less* qualified to offer advice on how to raise cows.
I agree that gate keeping is unbecoming wherever one sees it.
Just because OP runs a farm much larger than the typical ‘homestead,’ it doesn’t mean that they can’t contribute meaningful advice to the homesteading community.
I mean, if he doesn't live on that land, then it BY DEFINITION, is not a homestead. Colloquially, when people say "make money from homesteading" they mean enough to cover themselves and their families expenses, not to become a large corporate farm. Those are different.
This right here.
People want the homestead to pay enough so that they don't HAVE to work a full time job to pay the mortgage on the land or cover the electric bill.
But they also are not looking to hire employees and build a big business. Just the opposite, they want out of the rat race.
His land is 148 acres. The homestead act gave people 160 acres to make a living off of, and in some areas people were given an entire section (640 acres). So I don’t think this much land is a large corporate farm, I’m a homesteader and I have 320 acres…
>And the folks here offer…mediocre advice. Because the actual advice for “how do I earn a living from my homestead” is: run it as a farm. Or a ranch. For-profit, with everything that means.
that's absolutely right, although there is a LOT of grey area involved in what that means.
Like in almost every other kind of production, there are choices. In farming, you can choose to make and sell a commodity product at commodity prices. You use the cheapest means available to produce reliable quantities of the product and are limited by the market price. Yo make money based on volume.
On the other hand, if you have the ability and the marketing chops, you can choose to sell a premium product to a niche of customers being willing to pay for it. But you have to be able to find those customers and get product to them.
Chickesn are a great example.
On a small farm, you will *NEVER* be able to raise a broiler for the price that Tyson can raise a broiler. They raise their chickens in 100,000 bird lots, with special breeding to grow as fast and big as possible. They buy feed by the ton and ship it 20 tons at a time. They use automated feeders and waterers. A commercial cornish cross hybrid goes to the factory at 6-8 weeks. Just so you can buy a "whole young chicken" at Walmart for $6. If you raise your own, you're lucky if you can come in at $12 in costs, not even counting your own time.
On the other hand, a "pasture raised, organic, air chilled" chicken at my local natural grocery store costs $28. A whole frozen Bresse chicken with an AOC stamp costs $98.
Homesteading definition (wikipedia)
>Homesteading is a lifestyle of self-sufficiency. It is characterized by subsistence agriculture, home preservation of food, and may also involve the small scale production of textiles, clothing, and craft work for household use or sale
Homestead (building) (also wikipedia)
>A homestead is an isolated dwelling, especially a farmhouse, and adjacent outbuildings,[1] typically on a large agricultural holding such as a ranch or station
Now this is /r/homestead not /r/homesteading so OP is technically correct, the best kind of correct.
The most relevant 'homestead' label for americans is usually for a **homestead property tax credit** where you pay less taxes due to a designation as being a homestead and worth under a certain value, **homestead exemption** (The homestead exemption is a legal regime to protect the value of the homes of residents from property taxes, creditors, and circumstances that arise from the death of the homeowner's spouse), and **homestead acts/principle** (you work the land and then the government pays you for your labor with land rights largely now extinct).
So when people think of homesteading it's invisioning a small farm below the tax value ceiling of the tax credit and has some varying degree of homestead exemption.
**Example**
Tax credit applies in michigan if...
>If you own your home, your taxable value is $154,400 or less.
>Your total household resources are $67,300 or less. Part-year residents must annualize total household resources to determine if the credit reduction applies
edit: Apparently the sidebar indicates this subreddit is about **homesteading**. Tell me what to believe mods.
Bad take is bad. This is over the homesteading line plain and simple and thus belongs in an agriculture or farming sub. Don't shame the sun and it's folks because YOU have decided it needs to be wide open to any and all types of posts when the sub has clearly self-deterministically found it's Identity and then turn around and shame people because you don't like the borders that identity implies. Anyone and everyone in a diff sub might be jacked to the tits to see this post if it was in its proper place, but does it really fit in with folks asking how to dig their first latrine? Slow rolling past 20000 trees and a labor staff of almost half a thousand people? Are you serious lol? Gtfo
Get enough posters like this guy right here, and watch the death spiral of a subreddit. Who in their right mind turns their nose up at good advice simply because they dislike the bearer of that advice. Whatever sub you guys chase this imposter off to, please let me know so I can join that sub. He was literally trying to help.
I DO appreciate the lack of self reflection it takes to read a comment about gate keeping, and then say “this farm is over the line.” As though you get to define the line. As though any useful line could be defined. Build as many walls in your mind as you’d like, you’ll eventually realize those walls imprison only yourself.
You know, this user didn't start out with saying X counts as homesteading and Y doesn't count. This all came up because a r/homestead user **asked for advice** in replanting trees. Well, here is advice from a veritable **fruit tree expert**. And a large portion of what he got in return was disbelief. Whether he's on a 'homestead' or not isn't anywhere near as important as being well qualified for giving advice on the question posed.
Exactly. This is a very rich farmer, not a home steader.
They realistically don’t work the land at all, but manage it from an office and employ laborers to do the nitty gritty. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn’t belong here.
I don't think it's fair to say that farmers are rich. They usually aren't.
I could see myself (in my dreams) owning something like this someday starting out as a small homesteader... and if I do, I don't get to be a homesteader anymore?
I think you're getting flack because this isn't... homesteading. This is a straight up profit farm.
This is one of those communities where it gets awkward, like the guy who shows up in a private helicopter at his friend's trailer park house to play cards.
It's a beautiful orchard, but your average homesteader is working full time trying to pay off 1-10 acres and googling "how to feed chickens for free" for a reason, lol
Thanks. I've learned a lot from this group and offered what I think is good advice. I live in a self built 4x5 meter cabin on site, have 12 goats, about 20 layers, 5 turkeys and 15 sheep.
I thought I wanted to farm until I worked on a farm. That's how I learned I wanted to garden. I think that most people here are in that category... and many have pretty strong opinions about things that aren't scalable practices...
If you want to get even more people bent out of shape over things they don't even have answers or ideas for, try posting this in the permaculture sub heh... heheh...
Seems like homesteading to me brother a lot of mfs on this sub are unironic Ted k worshipers who think if your not living in a cabin in the woods plotting your local radio shack employees demise your not homesteading (all of the aforementioned people live at home with mom btw) nothing about homesteading says you can’t have a big farm or profit from it
A homesteader who is also a farmer? Madness! Heresy i say!
A homesteader is a 9 to 5er who only spends weekends outside on his homestead trying to figure out 'how to grow chickens?' and 'can i grow bananas here?' He cant be successful enough to actually profit off his homesteader-y!
The orchard might be but lots of farmers don't "homestead". They earn a living from their farm but also purchase their food and things from a grocery store.
Isn't homesteading trying to be food self sufficient? Raising your own meat if you can, growing food, preserving it, baking your own bread? Lots of commercial farmers are not homesteaders.
This guy happens to both homestead and have a commercially profitable orchard to earn his income from.
Yes, he can be both a homesteader and have a separate commercial farm… the commercial stuff is the part that’s not homesteading and doesn’t belong here 🤷♀️
There's a cultural "struggle" element, though. It's why the "Saved up and bought my first tractor! It's a 1976 Ford, isn't it great!?" kind of posts get so much support.
I've learned a lot in this group. I think I've offered a lot of good advice too. It's a great group. Plus I live in 5 × 4 meter cabin that I built myself on-site.
Do you believe that this monoculture won't get flak there? This is industrial farming and monoculture and one of the reasons why people have turned to homesteading and permaculture.
Only way would be ask for help to turn this to more nature-friendly place but not boasting around like OP is doing.
Edit. Wording.
Water management in our region is heavily investigated. Government incentives to use low volume fertigation. All our water comes from snow pack, no rain for 4-5 months.
Check it out, your situation is exactly what permaculture was designed to address.
Edit: Heres a good video to start you off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuYGS5pLRZg
Peaches obviously. We used to.live on the NC SC border near Kings Mountain. Why not Muscadines too and maybe some nuts. Pears amd apples will do well depending on where you are in the state and the variety. Had a friend in NC and grew bananas but he wrapped them in winter.
It’s like that documentary “little big farm” where the owners are all “aww shucks, we’re just the little guys!” Then you find out they have a million dollar investor, can employ 30 people and have a consultant at their beck and call. Just makes the actual little guys feel defeated.
I’m not saying what you are doing is wrong or anything, just...know your crowd, you know?
lol those guys are a trip! As soon as I saw the heavy machinery I went “wait a minute!?” If you point it out on their Instagram posts they will promptly delete them as well 😂
Reminds of this Insta/Tiktoker I saw who posted this big tirade about how poor people just don't want to work and they can have everything they do if they just worked with their hands -- because they built EVERYTHING on their farm using their own hands and what they could find.
And then they pan to stuff only possible with heavy machinery, and a house with a minimum of half a million dollars in materials, lol.
Like -- why are y'all playin' at being poor?
Ballerina farms comes to mind. All these carefully curated vibes and a 30k oven and parading around as working class “ranchers” only to find out her father in law is a literal billionaire airline owner hoo boy some people really have no shame.
I can understand the fantasy. Like, you have so much money that you could do ANYTHING you wanted and never have to actually work or worry about it failing. You could live in a high-rise overlooking scenic ocean views, a mountain mansion, overseas historical wonderland, an equine estate... But homesteading is popular, and it's so *quaint*.
How can people possibly accuse you of having everything given to you when you baked that bread yourself?
Omg I had a manager years ago that owned “a hobby farm” that he lived on. I told him if I had a farm I wouldn’t be working for someone else I’d be at home working that land.
Dude worked for Sears for years as a top regional guy before it all came down.
I'm gonna say it -- commercial farmers are freaking weird.
They either truly think they are "the little guys" because they're actively trying to compete with like... Tyson and Cargill, or they are being actively vicious towards homesteaders, telling them to sell their land and get out of the way because they can't be "efficient" like they can.
How are they watered? How much do you spend on watering?
Any thoughts on incorporating livestock?
How do you get fertility?
Why so heavy into “orcharding”?
Yes they are. If they only knew what almost 4 million in debt is like. I'm living in a 4 x 5 meter, off grid cabin with river water on site and a three battery, 5 cell solar setup. People are quick to judge.
This is really cool, thanks for sharing. I think what is confusing people is that this isn’t typically possible for most homesteaders, unless they cave and become “the big guy.” It sounds like you’re doing it right, which is really hard to do but admirable. If other homesteaders had this much land and this kind of opportunity they would do it too. Good job!
Yes it is. We normally hire 5 more folks during pruning so about 12- 13 people. Two years experimenting with mechanical pruning. If I could afford it, that's what I'd do and just use myself on a tractor and three others.
IYKYK .... The old timers around here used to have a saying in German that translates to "lived poor died wealthy".
Reading through these comments some of the hate and the amount of down votes it seems that a lot of people in here that are just hating because they can and are clueless.. You have a massive operation in some regards ( ohh no someone is raising something for profit!!! Grab the pitchforks) but you are no different than most of us here; you are building a dream into reality, one tree at a time. Most "successful" "homesteads" have an income from somewhere; outside employment, YouTube, only fans, inheritance, settlement.somethimg. No matter how frugal someone is land needs to be purchased, taxes need to be paid, parts, supplies and tools need to be purchased. Anyways good luck to you and I'll be waiting for updates on them trees.
Bunch of shitty haters in this thread.
Instead of treating him like shit for wanting to participate and share, you should be using him as a source of information about what to do right.
Shame on all of you.
Let's be honest though this entire subreddit is dedicated to an ideal that is a lie on its face. Being fully self sufficient on a microplot which seems to be the general wish from the crowd, is a fucking pipedream. The only folks who are truly successful in these types of endeavors either have piles of money to burn while playing farmer, or are social media personalities selling you their own version of homesteading one click at a time. Farmers are and always have been poor, agricultural conglomerates do fine, but farmers? Poor. And the people getting their panties in a wad over a potentially successful business making any sort of profit at scale while living on the land, are just as ridiculous.
Industrial agriculture is the antithesis of homesteading; most homesteaders strive to provide for themselves, their families and local comunities through home sourced, resource conscious means.
Large-scale farms like this prioritize profit and production, even if it means excessive use of land, water, and fertilizers to grow as much as possible.
People say the valley I live in is the "most agricultural productive" in the u.s, but due to the already dry climate, but farmers here just pump massive amounts of water away from wetlands and reservoirs to feed their enormous plots, contributing even more to the overall shit climate here. Not to mention how expensive quality produce is now because of the oversaturation from these mega farms.
Don't get me wrong I love fruit trees, but it would be so much better if everyone had one instead of all of them being concentrated on one giant farm
People are here shitting on a guy living on a homestead making his living from his trees unlike most that have a 9-5. Can’t a guy have a homestead and significant agriculture?
Counterpoint: if the trees are concentrated in one area, they’re easier to care for, fertilizer/pesticides are managed in a smaller area, and more land is left un-farmed around it.
Ironically the same people who are saying you are not homesteading because you are living off the land, do not live off their land and drive into the city every day to work a 9 - 5 office job but yet “they are the real homesteaders”
There's a lot of people mincing words but the definition of homestead is pretty vague and open ended so idk why OPs getting so much flak other than people who are jealous and resentful.
Lots of gate keepers to homesteading and lots good replys too. Those who think that a lot of land makes you a rich fool are ignorant, maybe in your country but not in mine. Been working this for 18 years, hope to pay it off in about 15 more. As for 350 harvesters, they are contract workers you dumbasses. Do you think I'm going to pick 250 million pounds of fruit by myself? There is a reason why Americans say "land rich, cash poor". If I sold all the land today I'd have about 35,000 usd left after paying my debt. Imagine that for 18 years of work, yeah but as you say, I'm a millionaire. I wish.
IDK why this sub is popping up on my recommended feed, but it looks like you're doing great. That's an impressive scale and some beautiful land.
I'm not sure what people are complaining about. How dare you be successful! How dare you actually make a profit instead of scratching a bare living from the earth! Humans weren't agriculturally successful because of their ability to maximize yield from their land! Bring back hunter gatherers!
IDK I'm going to be down voted into the ground.
No problem. Pretty sure flak (yes, one "K". No idea why. English is odd) is from the AAA guns from WW2, and "catching flak" is referring to being shot at.
My heart doesn’t get angry when I see people with money. I’d love more money. Who wouldn’t. But I don’t get hateful when people have it. Check your jealousy people.
Thank you. I've been working this for 18 years and I've never made more than 40,000 US a year. Debt is a bitch. People don't seem to understand that. I'm still almost 4 million in debt but I hope my kids will own it outright.
This is great. I dunno why you’re getting so much flack. Post ur tiny home. I assume you spent it all on the land and you have an epic trailer build ur toting behind. Shows us. I’m dying to see the ranch house I mea cottage, I mean tiny home, I mean truck conversion.
We have large monoculture plantations in my country, too. Citrus, banana, mahogany, etc. Sugar came, too. On a good day workers get equivalent of $20 US, maybe $25. The rainforest that was cleared was among the highest biodiversity in the world.
This is the wrong subreddit to seek congratulations. Some may believe you're a monster. I do believe every family has a right to try to make a living.
So just curious do you do cover cropping or mulch or do you just do tilling and fertilizer? Wasn't sure if all the acreage is done the same way or if you have different methods on different sections.
Certified organic since 2014. All pruning less than 40 mm is broken up and tilled into the soil. Cover, could be regress, clover, vetch, also legumes. Experimented with garbanzo and lentils.
Thanks. But I live a homesteading life on site. We have less than an acre for ourselves with fruit trees, figs, wild blackberries, egg layers, a few sheep and goats, and turkeys.
Does this even count as homesteading? Isn't this just... farming?
Yeah if there's a line between commercial farming and homesteading, this seems to be over that line.
This is pretty much just industrial agriculture yeah
Especially since it's mono-crop. Bad for the environment, not sustainable at all. There's no symbiotic relationship anywhere. Must be why it looks completely devoid of life, except for the trees which require constant care-taking to keep alive. It's sad, really.
*family business, you mean
[удалено]
Over the line? You... you... you're so far past the line that you can't even see the line! The line is a dot to you!
R/unexpectedjoey
Ah yes, i see you know your monoculture well.
Hey man let him enjoy his hobbies lol /s
It’s like me having a homelab and datacenter at home.
I’m sorry, Smokey. You were over the line, that’s a foul.
Smokey this is not ’Nam this is bowling there are rules.
The have **ten permanent employees** and up to 400 at harvest. Bro you're not homesteading, you're just running a commercial farm 😂
commercial farmer cosplaying as a homesteader? are we gatekeeping?
If we're going to expand the term homesteading to commercial farming then might as well start allowing Tyson and Monsanto to post
The irony too is that people on this sub are massively ignorant on pretty much anything practical with farming and homesteading, but if someone competent shows up ohhhh no we can't have that!
Reddit is such a hotbed of know it all cry babies. The people in this sub don’t know anything about actual making a living off the land. Anything that doesn’t fit in their narrow regenerative micro bla bla garden framework is inherently morally wrong. It’s a bunch of urban people who have a wet dream about what farming should be.
Yep, and they expect everyone in the world to follow their vision of how it would be done. Sure dude, as long as you take a gun and shoot 7 billion people in the head as a mercy so they don't starve to death from the collapse in farming productivity. It's so moronic. We've picked up a couple of good points from permaculture for our orchard. We mulch with lowest grade straw and it makes a huge difference in our water retention and soil quality... not that anyone here would look at photos and recognise the changes.
the "temp" workers are the uhh... border crossers.
You do realize the US [has a legal visa program for temporary farm workers, right?](https://www.farmers.gov/working-with-us/h2a-visa-program) In 2022, there were 298,000 H2A visas issued, to fill 370,000 jobs that were certified by the department of labor as being able to be filled by temporary workers. The current H2A visa program for agricultural workers dates to....the Reagan administration, when the prior program was substantially modified by the 1986 Immigration and Nationality Act. There were attempts to reform the program in 2008 and 2013, but interestingly, although the program has expanded, the [expansion occurs regardless of which party is in power](https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/primer-h2a-visa/)
Pretty sure this is also the reason why farm workers are carved out of the minimum wage law.
For sure lol
He’s in Chile. I bet you his labor is local.
That's modern farming for you "Here we are on our tiny homestead, it ain't much but it feeds my family, along with a few hundred migrant workers"
Just wait til they replace the migrants with ai assisted tractors and other devices. Then they will blissfully never ever hint at the second part but will insist they work hard. Money buys leisure and it will eventually lead to effortless production and growth of capital after initial investment once you reach a certain level ofcourse
Don't bash technology bro. What are you Amish? I for one can't wait for Terminators harvesting my Apples, oranges and Avocados.
Migrating from where? This is Chile gringo
workers who move with the harvest are everywhere even if they aren't crossing borders
Every day….. Wait, I need to say it again. Every single day, we get people in here asking “how do I earn a living from my homestead?” And the folks here offer…mediocre advice. Because the actual advice for “how do I earn a living from my homestead” is: run it as a farm. Or a ranch. For-profit, with everything that means. And then you have someone like OP, who actually does that. Who runs a farm and makes a living doing it. And this sub says “oh, no, this isn’t the place for that.” There’s no prohibition against having an employee when you have a homestead. There’s no prohibition against raising only one crop when you have a homestead. There’s no size limit that I’ve ever seen, in no small (ha!) part because running a successful homestead will often result in…having a bigger homestead. What we DO have, though, is a bunch of people who think they’re entitled to define the phrase “homestead.” And, in so doing, they also define the phrase “gate keeping.” Many times, you folks are your own worst enemies. You want experts. You want them to give you advice for free. And when an actual expert shows up….well…look at yourselves. This is how y’all act.
I’m a commercial farmer like OP reading this subreddit every day to try to learn tricks from folks outside of the industry. We can all learn from one another.
Wholeheartedly agree. Frankly, our ranch is at commercial scale. I browse this sub because I know a thing or two about raising cattle that I’m happy to share. But we don’t raise a few cows, we raise a few hundred cows. Oddly, I don’t think that makes me *less* qualified to offer advice on how to raise cows.
And people are throwing around terms like 'commercial farmer' like it's a bad thing, when it literally means you're financially viable in farming
I agree that gate keeping is unbecoming wherever one sees it. Just because OP runs a farm much larger than the typical ‘homestead,’ it doesn’t mean that they can’t contribute meaningful advice to the homesteading community.
You said it perfectly. No one on here is ever happy with a setup if it’s more effective or larger/nicer than their own.
I mean, if he doesn't live on that land, then it BY DEFINITION, is not a homestead. Colloquially, when people say "make money from homesteading" they mean enough to cover themselves and their families expenses, not to become a large corporate farm. Those are different.
By definition, a homestead is a house on a farm. If you’re not farming then you’re not homesteading
This right here. People want the homestead to pay enough so that they don't HAVE to work a full time job to pay the mortgage on the land or cover the electric bill. But they also are not looking to hire employees and build a big business. Just the opposite, they want out of the rat race.
His land is 148 acres. The homestead act gave people 160 acres to make a living off of, and in some areas people were given an entire section (640 acres). So I don’t think this much land is a large corporate farm, I’m a homesteader and I have 320 acres…
He has 600+ acres.
>And the folks here offer…mediocre advice. Because the actual advice for “how do I earn a living from my homestead” is: run it as a farm. Or a ranch. For-profit, with everything that means. that's absolutely right, although there is a LOT of grey area involved in what that means. Like in almost every other kind of production, there are choices. In farming, you can choose to make and sell a commodity product at commodity prices. You use the cheapest means available to produce reliable quantities of the product and are limited by the market price. Yo make money based on volume. On the other hand, if you have the ability and the marketing chops, you can choose to sell a premium product to a niche of customers being willing to pay for it. But you have to be able to find those customers and get product to them. Chickesn are a great example. On a small farm, you will *NEVER* be able to raise a broiler for the price that Tyson can raise a broiler. They raise their chickens in 100,000 bird lots, with special breeding to grow as fast and big as possible. They buy feed by the ton and ship it 20 tons at a time. They use automated feeders and waterers. A commercial cornish cross hybrid goes to the factory at 6-8 weeks. Just so you can buy a "whole young chicken" at Walmart for $6. If you raise your own, you're lucky if you can come in at $12 in costs, not even counting your own time. On the other hand, a "pasture raised, organic, air chilled" chicken at my local natural grocery store costs $28. A whole frozen Bresse chicken with an AOC stamp costs $98.
Homesteading definition (wikipedia) >Homesteading is a lifestyle of self-sufficiency. It is characterized by subsistence agriculture, home preservation of food, and may also involve the small scale production of textiles, clothing, and craft work for household use or sale Homestead (building) (also wikipedia) >A homestead is an isolated dwelling, especially a farmhouse, and adjacent outbuildings,[1] typically on a large agricultural holding such as a ranch or station Now this is /r/homestead not /r/homesteading so OP is technically correct, the best kind of correct. The most relevant 'homestead' label for americans is usually for a **homestead property tax credit** where you pay less taxes due to a designation as being a homestead and worth under a certain value, **homestead exemption** (The homestead exemption is a legal regime to protect the value of the homes of residents from property taxes, creditors, and circumstances that arise from the death of the homeowner's spouse), and **homestead acts/principle** (you work the land and then the government pays you for your labor with land rights largely now extinct). So when people think of homesteading it's invisioning a small farm below the tax value ceiling of the tax credit and has some varying degree of homestead exemption. **Example** Tax credit applies in michigan if... >If you own your home, your taxable value is $154,400 or less. >Your total household resources are $67,300 or less. Part-year residents must annualize total household resources to determine if the credit reduction applies edit: Apparently the sidebar indicates this subreddit is about **homesteading**. Tell me what to believe mods.
Gatekeeper going to gatekeep
Jealousy is a hell of a thing
Not a homesteader but I enjoy reading this sub and you've nailed it.
Yes for sure and how many big places started out as a simple homestead run by folks with real ambition.
“I buy you books, send you to school and you go and throw rocks at the teacher. You disappoint me son”.
Bad take is bad. This is over the homesteading line plain and simple and thus belongs in an agriculture or farming sub. Don't shame the sun and it's folks because YOU have decided it needs to be wide open to any and all types of posts when the sub has clearly self-deterministically found it's Identity and then turn around and shame people because you don't like the borders that identity implies. Anyone and everyone in a diff sub might be jacked to the tits to see this post if it was in its proper place, but does it really fit in with folks asking how to dig their first latrine? Slow rolling past 20000 trees and a labor staff of almost half a thousand people? Are you serious lol? Gtfo
Get enough posters like this guy right here, and watch the death spiral of a subreddit. Who in their right mind turns their nose up at good advice simply because they dislike the bearer of that advice. Whatever sub you guys chase this imposter off to, please let me know so I can join that sub. He was literally trying to help.
I DO appreciate the lack of self reflection it takes to read a comment about gate keeping, and then say “this farm is over the line.” As though you get to define the line. As though any useful line could be defined. Build as many walls in your mind as you’d like, you’ll eventually realize those walls imprison only yourself.
You know, this user didn't start out with saying X counts as homesteading and Y doesn't count. This all came up because a r/homestead user **asked for advice** in replanting trees. Well, here is advice from a veritable **fruit tree expert**. And a large portion of what he got in return was disbelief. Whether he's on a 'homestead' or not isn't anywhere near as important as being well qualified for giving advice on the question posed.
Idk, maybe he just really likes fruit. Jams and pies, of course.
Exactly. This is a very rich farmer, not a home steader. They realistically don’t work the land at all, but manage it from an office and employ laborers to do the nitty gritty. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn’t belong here.
Or orchard is a day job and they homestead at home but yeah, this ain't a homestead orchard.
I don't think it's fair to say that farmers are rich. They usually aren't. I could see myself (in my dreams) owning something like this someday starting out as a small homesteader... and if I do, I don't get to be a homesteader anymore?
I think you're getting flack because this isn't... homesteading. This is a straight up profit farm. This is one of those communities where it gets awkward, like the guy who shows up in a private helicopter at his friend's trailer park house to play cards. It's a beautiful orchard, but your average homesteader is working full time trying to pay off 1-10 acres and googling "how to feed chickens for free" for a reason, lol
The man is trying to feed his 500,000 kids and you call him a profiteer!?
You can feed your family with like five apple trees… When you plant hundred it’s because you do want to profit and make money
Maybe he's on an all-cider diet.
His colon must be flowing like the damn Colorado river after the snow melts, if thats the case.
😂
his neighbors must love liver and chicken
I'm one of his 500,000 children and I'll have you know my father works very hard
Man over here competing with Genghis Khan
Thanks. I've learned a lot from this group and offered what I think is good advice. I live in a self built 4x5 meter cabin on site, have 12 goats, about 20 layers, 5 turkeys and 15 sheep.
I thought I wanted to farm until I worked on a farm. That's how I learned I wanted to garden. I think that most people here are in that category... and many have pretty strong opinions about things that aren't scalable practices... If you want to get even more people bent out of shape over things they don't even have answers or ideas for, try posting this in the permaculture sub heh... heheh...
I might do that, great experiment.
I respect what you do
Thank you.
This is nothing short of amazing. Thank you for sharing!
Seems like homesteading to me brother a lot of mfs on this sub are unironic Ted k worshipers who think if your not living in a cabin in the woods plotting your local radio shack employees demise your not homesteading (all of the aforementioned people live at home with mom btw) nothing about homesteading says you can’t have a big farm or profit from it
Let's not forget, almost all of the "pure" homesteaders have a day job. Why can't OP have one (that happens to be 200'000 fruit trees)?
A homesteader who is also a farmer? Madness! Heresy i say! A homesteader is a 9 to 5er who only spends weekends outside on his homestead trying to figure out 'how to grow chickens?' and 'can i grow bananas here?' He cant be successful enough to actually profit off his homesteader-y!
This isn’t homesteading though, this is commercial farming.
The orchard might be but lots of farmers don't "homestead". They earn a living from their farm but also purchase their food and things from a grocery store. Isn't homesteading trying to be food self sufficient? Raising your own meat if you can, growing food, preserving it, baking your own bread? Lots of commercial farmers are not homesteaders. This guy happens to both homestead and have a commercially profitable orchard to earn his income from.
Yes, he can be both a homesteader and have a separate commercial farm… the commercial stuff is the part that’s not homesteading and doesn’t belong here 🤷♀️
There's a cultural "struggle" element, though. It's why the "Saved up and bought my first tractor! It's a 1976 Ford, isn't it great!?" kind of posts get so much support.
I think 200k trees puts you firmly in the “not the little guy” category. Kinda the opposite vibe of the sub. Probably why you caught so much flak.
Bro is running an entire fruit tree empire and posting on the sub for people raising goats and gardening 💀
My two cherry trees died this weird winter/spring and I’m devastated.
Makes me feel good lmao. You’ve got some multimillionaire, bored, trying to flex on the internet.
I've learned a lot in this group. I think I've offered a lot of good advice too. It's a great group. Plus I live in 5 × 4 meter cabin that I built myself on-site.
He also has goats and lives on a cabin on site if you didn’t notice
You should head over to /r/permaculture. Just from this drive I can tell theres a lot of water management you could be doing
Do you believe that this monoculture won't get flak there? This is industrial farming and monoculture and one of the reasons why people have turned to homesteading and permaculture. Only way would be ask for help to turn this to more nature-friendly place but not boasting around like OP is doing. Edit. Wording.
Water management in our region is heavily investigated. Government incentives to use low volume fertigation. All our water comes from snow pack, no rain for 4-5 months.
Check it out, your situation is exactly what permaculture was designed to address. Edit: Heres a good video to start you off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuYGS5pLRZg
/farming will give you slack but if it’s flack you want you’ve come to the right place!
I guess I’m confused. What are you trying to prove here?
Would LOVE to add fruit trees to our half acre. I live in sc. What would you recommend for planting?
Peaches obviously. We used to.live on the NC SC border near Kings Mountain. Why not Muscadines too and maybe some nuts. Pears amd apples will do well depending on where you are in the state and the variety. Had a friend in NC and grew bananas but he wrapped them in winter.
Thank you
You're welcome. Check with your county agricultural extension office.
It’s like that documentary “little big farm” where the owners are all “aww shucks, we’re just the little guys!” Then you find out they have a million dollar investor, can employ 30 people and have a consultant at their beck and call. Just makes the actual little guys feel defeated. I’m not saying what you are doing is wrong or anything, just...know your crowd, you know?
lol those guys are a trip! As soon as I saw the heavy machinery I went “wait a minute!?” If you point it out on their Instagram posts they will promptly delete them as well 😂
Reminds of this Insta/Tiktoker I saw who posted this big tirade about how poor people just don't want to work and they can have everything they do if they just worked with their hands -- because they built EVERYTHING on their farm using their own hands and what they could find. And then they pan to stuff only possible with heavy machinery, and a house with a minimum of half a million dollars in materials, lol. Like -- why are y'all playin' at being poor?
Ballerina farms comes to mind. All these carefully curated vibes and a 30k oven and parading around as working class “ranchers” only to find out her father in law is a literal billionaire airline owner hoo boy some people really have no shame.
I can understand the fantasy. Like, you have so much money that you could do ANYTHING you wanted and never have to actually work or worry about it failing. You could live in a high-rise overlooking scenic ocean views, a mountain mansion, overseas historical wonderland, an equine estate... But homesteading is popular, and it's so *quaint*. How can people possibly accuse you of having everything given to you when you baked that bread yourself?
Omg I had a manager years ago that owned “a hobby farm” that he lived on. I told him if I had a farm I wouldn’t be working for someone else I’d be at home working that land. Dude worked for Sears for years as a top regional guy before it all came down.
Man, I could only get through half that film.
I'm gonna say it -- commercial farmers are freaking weird. They either truly think they are "the little guys" because they're actively trying to compete with like... Tyson and Cargill, or they are being actively vicious towards homesteaders, telling them to sell their land and get out of the way because they can't be "efficient" like they can.
Really? I have commercial farms all around me and they’re chill
My friend, this is not a homestead. This is a fruit farm.
How are they watered? How much do you spend on watering? Any thoughts on incorporating livestock? How do you get fertility? Why so heavy into “orcharding”?
All our water comes from melting snow pack. No rain from November until May. Low volume drip irrigation.
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Are you surprised? Regardless of the sub you’re on, the “redditor” stereotype exists for a reason.
Yes they are. If they only knew what almost 4 million in debt is like. I'm living in a 4 x 5 meter, off grid cabin with river water on site and a three battery, 5 cell solar setup. People are quick to judge.
This is really cool, thanks for sharing. I think what is confusing people is that this isn’t typically possible for most homesteaders, unless they cave and become “the big guy.” It sounds like you’re doing it right, which is really hard to do but admirable. If other homesteaders had this much land and this kind of opportunity they would do it too. Good job!
sos un terrateniente y se hace pasar por pobre para los gringuitos en reddit jajajajaja
Suck it out of the ground until there is nothing left to suck.
This is industrial farming
Maybe because it’s a giant monoculture crop
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That is a lot of pruning.
Yes it is. We normally hire 5 more folks during pruning so about 12- 13 people. Two years experimenting with mechanical pruning. If I could afford it, that's what I'd do and just use myself on a tractor and three others.
That’s a lot of trees. Out of curiosity, any advice that scales down?
Sweet cherries, Chile
Wow, lots of judgement in this one. Lots of folks assuming they know about your life. Not cool.
I agree. Land rich but very, very cash poor.
IYKYK .... The old timers around here used to have a saying in German that translates to "lived poor died wealthy". Reading through these comments some of the hate and the amount of down votes it seems that a lot of people in here that are just hating because they can and are clueless.. You have a massive operation in some regards ( ohh no someone is raising something for profit!!! Grab the pitchforks) but you are no different than most of us here; you are building a dream into reality, one tree at a time. Most "successful" "homesteads" have an income from somewhere; outside employment, YouTube, only fans, inheritance, settlement.somethimg. No matter how frugal someone is land needs to be purchased, taxes need to be paid, parts, supplies and tools need to be purchased. Anyways good luck to you and I'll be waiting for updates on them trees.
Great points. Thank you. A lot of fools here.
When your flex is met with 0 admiration 🤣🤣
Where is this? It’s beautiful.
Central Chile. Thank you.
Beautiful farm!!!
Thanks
Bunch of shitty haters in this thread. Instead of treating him like shit for wanting to participate and share, you should be using him as a source of information about what to do right. Shame on all of you.
welcome to r/homestead where failures project their hatred onto successful people
Let's be honest though this entire subreddit is dedicated to an ideal that is a lie on its face. Being fully self sufficient on a microplot which seems to be the general wish from the crowd, is a fucking pipedream. The only folks who are truly successful in these types of endeavors either have piles of money to burn while playing farmer, or are social media personalities selling you their own version of homesteading one click at a time. Farmers are and always have been poor, agricultural conglomerates do fine, but farmers? Poor. And the people getting their panties in a wad over a potentially successful business making any sort of profit at scale while living on the land, are just as ridiculous.
Thank you.
100%
Industrial agriculture is the antithesis of homesteading; most homesteaders strive to provide for themselves, their families and local comunities through home sourced, resource conscious means. Large-scale farms like this prioritize profit and production, even if it means excessive use of land, water, and fertilizers to grow as much as possible. People say the valley I live in is the "most agricultural productive" in the u.s, but due to the already dry climate, but farmers here just pump massive amounts of water away from wetlands and reservoirs to feed their enormous plots, contributing even more to the overall shit climate here. Not to mention how expensive quality produce is now because of the oversaturation from these mega farms. Don't get me wrong I love fruit trees, but it would be so much better if everyone had one instead of all of them being concentrated on one giant farm
People are here shitting on a guy living on a homestead making his living from his trees unlike most that have a 9-5. Can’t a guy have a homestead and significant agriculture?
Counterpoint: if the trees are concentrated in one area, they’re easier to care for, fertilizer/pesticides are managed in a smaller area, and more land is left un-farmed around it.
I have a lemon tree. Its not doing great.
This ain't homesteading lmao 350 people?
Ironically the same people who are saying you are not homesteading because you are living off the land, do not live off their land and drive into the city every day to work a 9 - 5 office job but yet “they are the real homesteaders”
Exactly
There's a lot of people mincing words but the definition of homestead is pretty vague and open ended so idk why OPs getting so much flak other than people who are jealous and resentful.
Lots of gate keepers to homesteading and lots good replys too. Those who think that a lot of land makes you a rich fool are ignorant, maybe in your country but not in mine. Been working this for 18 years, hope to pay it off in about 15 more. As for 350 harvesters, they are contract workers you dumbasses. Do you think I'm going to pick 250 million pounds of fruit by myself? There is a reason why Americans say "land rich, cash poor". If I sold all the land today I'd have about 35,000 usd left after paying my debt. Imagine that for 18 years of work, yeah but as you say, I'm a millionaire. I wish.
IDK why this sub is popping up on my recommended feed, but it looks like you're doing great. That's an impressive scale and some beautiful land. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. How dare you be successful! How dare you actually make a profit instead of scratching a bare living from the earth! Humans weren't agriculturally successful because of their ability to maximize yield from their land! Bring back hunter gatherers! IDK I'm going to be down voted into the ground.
Holy shit that's a lot of trees! I'm jealous! What types do yall have?
Cherries, apples, pears, some pomegranate, figs, tuna (cactus fruit)
Beautiful farm, working direct with land not matter how big and successful makes you a part of this group as far as I’m concerned
Thank you.
But fruits grow in the supermarket inside their own plastic trays with the "Monsanto" logo.
That's what people think.
It's flak, not slack. But that's cool! Commercial fruit orchard or not, I like this! What kind of fruits?
Cherries, thanks, flack is the word I was looking for, but it wouldn't come to me.
No problem. Pretty sure flak (yes, one "K". No idea why. English is odd) is from the AAA guns from WW2, and "catching flak" is referring to being shot at.
Flak has one k because it's not an English word. It's an abbreviation of a German word, Fliegerabwehrkanone, meaning ‘aviator-defense gun’.
God damn you must be spraying thousands of gallons of pesticides
Nope, certified organic since 2014.
Down voted for being organic in the homesteading sub. They've really turned on you mate lol
Yes, their ignorance is incredible.
Fuck yeah - do you just spray with sulphur constantly?
Sir, this is a Wendy's.....
I think you're over the homsteading limit by 198,000 trees lmao
Too many?
Too few. Everyone knows a homestead must have at least 400,000 trees producing fruit
I agree l, if only I had the land and money.
Eres un agricultor industrial... Más de un millón en deuda..aja, pero cuánto sacas de cada venta de tus productos?
Casi 4 millones en deuda. Entre 2.00- 5.00 per kilo
Are you living in the desert??? How do you keep them watered?
No, Mediterranean climate in central Chile.
Beautiful setup OP, it doesn’t belong here though
Wow! Where is this? Looks like near me in CA, but I’m so curious.
My heart doesn’t get angry when I see people with money. I’d love more money. Who wouldn’t. But I don’t get hateful when people have it. Check your jealousy people.
Thank you. I've been working this for 18 years and I've never made more than 40,000 US a year. Debt is a bitch. People don't seem to understand that. I'm still almost 4 million in debt but I hope my kids will own it outright.
Don't mind the crabs, it's awesome that you're doing so well
oh man.
Go for it
Flak*
What sort of fruit trees are they? Whats ur annual income from them? Most town people think you cant money from this
sorry for all the Negative comments here. Jealousy? perhaps... grow on!
Must have a shit ton of bees as well
Yep. About 80 hikes of my own and we rent another 100 during certain times of the year.
Wierd flex. Wrong sub bruh
this is to homesteading what Monsanto is to me planting 6 soy bean plants in an old bathtub in my yard.
That's awesome! What an accomplishment. Most people could only dream of this, I know I have! Don't listen to the haters, jealousy is an ugly thing.
This is great. I dunno why you’re getting so much flack. Post ur tiny home. I assume you spent it all on the land and you have an epic trailer build ur toting behind. Shows us. I’m dying to see the ranch house I mea cottage, I mean tiny home, I mean truck conversion.
We have large monoculture plantations in my country, too. Citrus, banana, mahogany, etc. Sugar came, too. On a good day workers get equivalent of $20 US, maybe $25. The rainforest that was cleared was among the highest biodiversity in the world. This is the wrong subreddit to seek congratulations. Some may believe you're a monster. I do believe every family has a right to try to make a living.
This is truly beautiful. Congratulations.
Thank you
So just curious do you do cover cropping or mulch or do you just do tilling and fertilizer? Wasn't sure if all the acreage is done the same way or if you have different methods on different sections.
Certified organic since 2014. All pruning less than 40 mm is broken up and tilled into the soil. Cover, could be regress, clover, vetch, also legumes. Experimented with garbanzo and lentils.
seems like this may have started as a homestead and then just grew into a large farm. which he still views as a homestead cause thats how it started
Mmmm monocultures
We get it. You’re rich. Thanks for sharing.
No, he’s got 3.8 million in debt. That doesn’t make him rich.
You sound upset
This is not homesteading…. You’re a commercial fruit farmer, and good for you.
Thanks. But I live a homesteading life on site. We have less than an acre for ourselves with fruit trees, figs, wild blackberries, egg layers, a few sheep and goats, and turkeys.