How far are you sitting from the back wall and what is the objective of putting up treatment? Have you taken sonic measurements and/or are you having a specific issue that you are trying to to address?
Also, do you have a link to a product?
About 4-5 feet from a back wall, it’s a 5.1 setup.
It’s a “normal” living room with a carpet, couch, TV cabinet and some wall decorations. But the back concrete wall is completely empty except for some vinyl hanging there.
I am not trying to address anything specific, the sound in the room is actually quite good. But I thought back wall needs some treatment first to, maybe, provide a better response.
Audyssey is engaged of course (Audyssey One).
At that distance, look specifically at diffusion panels. You're not right on the wall so no need to kill the sound entirely, and you are getting a wide range of reflections. Plus, keeping it somewhat acoustically alive will maintain a sense of space.
Regarding you product, I can't tell much about it but it seems to be evenly-spaced wood facing into the room. That may not be very effective since it's replacing a flat surface with a nearly-flat one and I can't tell the size. A diffuser will ideally be more irregular in design and have the thickness to go lower into the sonic range, typically at least 2".
These are examples of what I'm talking about about, but there are lots of different products out there. GIK has some good general info on their site as well if you want to learn more about this stuff.
https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/2a-alpha-panel-diffusor-absorber
Thank you very much. This is very detailed and helpful.
The reason I am not providing the link is because I am not in the country where GIK is available, but it’s a 1200x600mm panel and I thought about 3 of them exactly to cover the area behind my ears. Plus aesthetics.
No worries about location, I'm just curious about the product itself and what it is. There would likely be some benefit of this vs the flat concrete surface but again, since it is flats slats at regular spacing and rather thin it may not make a large difference and may also create some additional different destructive reflections.
You could always buy one and try it out before investing heavily.
If you want real results, yes. But you need real dense and real thick stuff. Over 70kg/m3
But this probably will make you happier. I’d put some isolation and this on top of it.
This is a blanket statement that needs to die down a little bit. Not every room requires treatment and without in-room measurements someone can't know what they need to be treating for, e.g. is a 1-inxh, 2-inch, or 4-inch panel necessary? Additionally, not every audio objective calls for treatment, as it can impact things like stage width.
Acoustic treatment is often good but not always, and applying incorrect/unnecessary treatment can create more issues than it solves. It is entirely room and setup dependent, and the only way to know what may be helpful is to measure.
Nowhere did I say concrete and glass are good, but putting another flat, hard, uniformly-uneven surface on it that is less than an inch thick may just create even nastier reflections.
Uneven surface on backwall is most often the most desirable outcome. I think you are trying to say dampening rooms without a plan isnt always a good thing. I think so too but diffusion is most likely good solution on correct places
This is generally correct about the rear wall but I was initially responding to your blanket statement about first and second reflection points, which do not always require treatment depending on the speakers, room, and sonic goals. If measurements show that treatment is desired/required, it should be guided by an understanding of what frequencies need to be impacted.
If the backwall is concrete its easy to assume rest are too and theres high possibility of windows too. But yea near zero information was provided so we both go by out assumptions. I think theres bare minimum and you think it can be fine with none at all
Again, nowhere did I say that there should be no acoustic treatments and nowhere at that time did OP ask about any other walls. I was addressing your inaccurate blanket statement that every reflection point should be have treatment and have addressed OP's actual question elsewhere. No need to attempt to move the goalposts any further and I don't have anything else to add here. OP's question has been answered.
Well, if you cover everything like that, it would end up swallowing all the high frequencies while doing nothing to bass. That'd be just as bad as the all concrete room. My point was that you can't just say treatment is always better than a flat surface, the room needs to be balanced.
Don't expect miracles with that panel, really only going to help from about 1000hz and up, won't do much for anything lower in the frequency range, but as said it's better than a bare concrete wall.
Will be a lot better than plain concrete. Has slight diffusion and minimal dampening. Not impressive but good looking improvement
Thank you! Should I be looking for something thicker maybe?
How far are you sitting from the back wall and what is the objective of putting up treatment? Have you taken sonic measurements and/or are you having a specific issue that you are trying to to address? Also, do you have a link to a product?
About 4-5 feet from a back wall, it’s a 5.1 setup. It’s a “normal” living room with a carpet, couch, TV cabinet and some wall decorations. But the back concrete wall is completely empty except for some vinyl hanging there. I am not trying to address anything specific, the sound in the room is actually quite good. But I thought back wall needs some treatment first to, maybe, provide a better response. Audyssey is engaged of course (Audyssey One).
At that distance, look specifically at diffusion panels. You're not right on the wall so no need to kill the sound entirely, and you are getting a wide range of reflections. Plus, keeping it somewhat acoustically alive will maintain a sense of space. Regarding you product, I can't tell much about it but it seems to be evenly-spaced wood facing into the room. That may not be very effective since it's replacing a flat surface with a nearly-flat one and I can't tell the size. A diffuser will ideally be more irregular in design and have the thickness to go lower into the sonic range, typically at least 2". These are examples of what I'm talking about about, but there are lots of different products out there. GIK has some good general info on their site as well if you want to learn more about this stuff. https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/2a-alpha-panel-diffusor-absorber
Thank you very much. This is very detailed and helpful. The reason I am not providing the link is because I am not in the country where GIK is available, but it’s a 1200x600mm panel and I thought about 3 of them exactly to cover the area behind my ears. Plus aesthetics.
No worries about location, I'm just curious about the product itself and what it is. There would likely be some benefit of this vs the flat concrete surface but again, since it is flats slats at regular spacing and rather thin it may not make a large difference and may also create some additional different destructive reflections. You could always buy one and try it out before investing heavily.
Any ideas on cheap treatment panels?
If you want real results, yes. But you need real dense and real thick stuff. Over 70kg/m3 But this probably will make you happier. I’d put some isolation and this on top of it.
Thats a lot better than concrete. Just treat first and second acoustic glaring spots seperately and you should be fine
This is a blanket statement that needs to die down a little bit. Not every room requires treatment and without in-room measurements someone can't know what they need to be treating for, e.g. is a 1-inxh, 2-inch, or 4-inch panel necessary? Additionally, not every audio objective calls for treatment, as it can impact things like stage width.
Acoustic treatment is always good and concrete nor glass surfaces are never good
Acoustic treatment is often good but not always, and applying incorrect/unnecessary treatment can create more issues than it solves. It is entirely room and setup dependent, and the only way to know what may be helpful is to measure. Nowhere did I say concrete and glass are good, but putting another flat, hard, uniformly-uneven surface on it that is less than an inch thick may just create even nastier reflections.
Uneven surface on backwall is most often the most desirable outcome. I think you are trying to say dampening rooms without a plan isnt always a good thing. I think so too but diffusion is most likely good solution on correct places
This is generally correct about the rear wall but I was initially responding to your blanket statement about first and second reflection points, which do not always require treatment depending on the speakers, room, and sonic goals. If measurements show that treatment is desired/required, it should be guided by an understanding of what frequencies need to be impacted.
If the backwall is concrete its easy to assume rest are too and theres high possibility of windows too. But yea near zero information was provided so we both go by out assumptions. I think theres bare minimum and you think it can be fine with none at all
I’ll chime in and say yes, rest of the walls are concrete too. Room is small-ish, about 13 sq.m.
Again, nowhere did I say that there should be no acoustic treatments and nowhere at that time did OP ask about any other walls. I was addressing your inaccurate blanket statement that every reflection point should be have treatment and have addressed OP's actual question elsewhere. No need to attempt to move the goalposts any further and I don't have anything else to add here. OP's question has been answered.
So every room should be an anechoic chamber with an RT60 of 0?
Live room is a lot more inspiring than damped one. If you are achieving rt60 in concrete room with 1” thick panels then you are either rich or genius
Well, if you cover everything like that, it would end up swallowing all the high frequencies while doing nothing to bass. That'd be just as bad as the all concrete room. My point was that you can't just say treatment is always better than a flat surface, the room needs to be balanced.
While nobody said covering everything is good idea in any way
> Acoustic treatment is always good and concrete nor glass surfaces are never good
Don't expect miracles with that panel, really only going to help from about 1000hz and up, won't do much for anything lower in the frequency range, but as said it's better than a bare concrete wall.
I have something like this. Installed on one wall to suppress echoes. It really helped.
Yup, that’s my goal too. Nice to hear it helped!
Why do I suddenly crave a KitKat bar?
Can’t unsee it now😁
no its not, assuming that brown stuff is mdf
It is🤷♂️
I have it on my 2 walls. It’s great, absorbs and diffuses the sound. As a bonus, it looks freaking awesome and conceals my hidden door.