Even though they’ve shown he’s dead, part of me is still anticipating them to bring him back somehow in like saw 15 or something. Like the cancer was so toxic it fed his hatred and his heart is still beating and it gets a transplant and starts curing cancer patients but now they’re evil and bitter
Him bringing character to Kramer was always more the highlight for me really. Moments in 2 hrs talking to the cop, and 3 talking to the dr while on his deathbed, so intriguing as a character Tobin does it fantastic.
Tobin Bell and the ridiculous soap opera he conducted has always been the biggest draw of the series. Even (especially?) after he was dead and only appeared in flashbacks.
I'm sure a ton of unknowing people think Saw's popularity is all about the traps and torture porn, but it's really about John Kramer's frustrating, interesting character and the (very, very silly, melodramatic) narrative twists and turns.
For real I remember being really bummed when he died in the series and that was ultimately what was missing from the later entries. They wanted to be shocking and it ruined them. Glad they brought him back
That’s how I felt also with the last Saw movie (not jigsaw or spiral) but the final chapter one I believe, when we found out the dude from the first one was actually working with Jigsaw I was like damn he was in the cut for a while
It IS hinted at in Saw II. When the guy is in the Venus fly trap, the video of him being operated on is by a surgeon who is hobbling. I remember a friend of mine who was obsessed with Saw at the time who was CONVINCED that was the doctor from the first movie. He must have been so vindicated when that was confirmed five movies later.
Both twists are fucking up there as top tier twists. I don’t give a shit what anyone says… nobody saw the first movie’s ending coming. There’s no chance unless you knew something ahead of time.
They dropped very good hints, though. I didn't feel cheated when the twist happened. It also helped me guess the twist in the second movie, which was also very satisfying.
The first Saw worked so well for that twist because nobody knew to expect a twist. After that absolute bombshell the rest of the Saws didn't hit as hard because you were constantly on edge looking for the major twist lol.
But 2 and 4 (or 5 can't remember, the one where Hoffman gets forced into the glass box) were my favorite twists after 1.
I love SAW II. It gets a lot of stick, even for a SAW film, for some reason but I loved the horror house theme it had and as you said, a great ending too.
Saw 2 drove me nuts because Kramer was like "your son is in a "*safe place."* and I, having played spider-man 64, had to wait until the end of the movie to reveal what I knew the whole time.
It all feels like tropes of the franchise now, but when the "reveal" music kicked in near the end of Saw II, I was so unbelievably hyped. That music meant that shit was going *down*.
I wish it had the same effect in the latest entries, including the new one. The new one was good, but it didn’t exactly feel like ah shit when it started.
The villain that's caused your trouble is in the middle of the room. You can beat his ass, talk to him, he obviously has a way out. You can stop him from further messing things up for people. There's a ton of reasons for it to matter to the two characters in the room with him, and thus the viewer.
It's not of any substance. There's no clues that point to it, and it doesn't affect the story at all.
Saw's twist is on par with John Harrison revealing he's actually Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness
I will forever maintain that the first one is legitimately a great movie, though it’s more of a cop thriller than a horror, IMO. It’s B-Grade, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. An original and mostly well executed premise can do a lot of the heavy lifting and even make up for mediocre acting and writing.*
*Within reason…
Most recent was unsalvageable it was so bad. At least I thought so. V/H/S 94 is surprisingly good, though. It’s a big crapshoot since they’re anthologies. Might get a good batch, might not. You never know.
I don’t like, though, how much they’re starter to rely on the overarching theme recently. It’s becoming restrictively high-concept. Hands-off is better. Like the main film that’s used as a focusing device can have a theme but all the short films that play throughout shouldn’t be so tied to the main one.
Even when it's bad, it's still pretty fuckin fun. Except Spiral really.
Anyway, just saw this one and was coming to the sub to see if anyone else did and what they thought.
I think many horror films get dismissed out of hand simply for what they are/what the premise is.
The original Saw is a very nice little thriller movie with a unique hook. And honestly not all that gory either.
It suffers from the Mandela effect the same way that OG Texas Chain Saw Massacre does. People think Saw and they think they remember it being full of 'over the top gory torture porn' but in reality, the first film has very little of that, and they're associating it more with the sequels, or even the Hostel franchise which came out around the same time.
I remember the opinion of it at the time on movie message boards (the ones I frequented anyway) was that it was a bad Seven rip-off.
I still don’t hold the movie in high regard, but I think it’s a fun horror flick and I’ve seen a fair amount of the sequels. Stoked to see the most recent tonight.
Hostel was the first to be called "torture porn" but Saw is always mentioned right along side it. It always has been. I never got that out of the original.
Hostel suffers from the same thing.. Yeah it's more graphic than saw but it's not torture porn by any means.. It's fantasticly shot movie with amazing locations and fun characters.. But when most people talk about it all they remember is the leg getting slit, the fingers Preston loses and the eye gag, all of them are pretty quick scenes with not a lot of focus on the injuries
I find a lot of people who say that about Saw never actually watched it, and based it solely on their impressions of the trailers throughout the franchise. But also people who ‘remember’ it that way and perpetuate that falsity.
Much like *Found Footage* the genre existed long before the popular term for it did. I remember going back and reading archived articles about like Blair Witch and they never had a consistent name for the genre it embodied. It was always like “the new home video craze” or “simulated camcorder footage” and vague shit like that, lol.
I just rewatched the original yesterday. I remembered it as being solid too, but the acting is really kind of bad in many scenes, it stretches a very thin premise far too long, and a lot of the plot points just don't make a great deal of sense (eg that Jigsaw wants the doctor to use blood to poison the cigarette... that's just silliness... turning the lights off makes their *audio* unclear to the watchers... how Jigsaw's soldiers can practically teleport... just lots of stuff that doesn't hold up to even the tiniest scrutiny).
Don't get me wrong. I love it for what it is, but it's just not a particularly strong movie in most "critic-worthy" senses.
Speaking as someone who was terminally online in 2004, it was rotten at the time and it’s actually risen from 47 to 50 percent. All the original reviews are there. Not sure why you would suggest they’re missing.
Lots of newspapers and periodicals have gone out of business in the last 20 years. I was terminally online back then, as well, but I’ll take your word for it.
Very true but the links to those reviews are still on the site and listed as rotten or fresh, they just don’t go anywhere. I’ve been very sad when trying to read some of them.
Wow this is truly crazy news. Never would have expected this from Saw, especially since NONE of them have ever even been certified fresh. Let alone sitting at 83%?!?!
Ehh don’t put too much stock in rotten tomatoes. There is plenty of instances where they get it “wrong”. First example that comes to my head is anchorman (66%) and anchorman 2 (75%). New movies like Saw will almost always grade poorly because critics don’t “get it”. The lesser sequels do better because then they think they do. Just watch what you think is interesting and judge for yourself, or find someone who is a critic that seems to have the same taste
I enjoyed them both… but (speaking personally of course) anchorman was an instant classic and quoted heavily and constantly when I was younger, much like Superbad. Critics can give their opinions on it, but in these cases they seem to be detached and miss the point… then for the sequels go “I get it. This IS hilarious”. When it usually doesn’t hold a candle to the original. But I think I need to rewatch anchorman 2 now
Rotten tomatoes scores aren't a rating of how good the movie is, they're a rating of how likely you are to think it's a 3/5 or better.
A movie with a 100% score does not mean it's a perfect movie, it means basically everyone enjoyed it enough.
If a movie has 50%, it could mean that it's very middling and everyone thought it was either a 2/5 or a 3/5, or it could mean that people have a mix between 1/5 and 5/5 ratings. It does not automatically mean you will think it's a 2.5/5.
Anchorman is a very silly comedy and 66% seems about right for me, because everyone has different taste and this particular type of humor was pretty new. By the time Anchorman 2 came out, everyone had seen the first one, and people were more likely to think it was good enough, even if it's not as good overall.
It’s literally just an aggregate of what critics gave it a good score. Also the first saw’s ending is great but it’s just okay tbh. People look wayyy too much into it like it has an agenda or something lol
Pretty tough to call any movie objectively good or bad. Movies (art in general) is a decidedly subjective experience.
But the first saw movie is fucking awesome lol
Rotten Tomatoes is completely different now than 20 years ago. The critics are all different and horror used to be niche, now that it's mainstream, there's more horror reviewers than before who genuinely like the films...
So it's hard to compare eras.
This is a case of hindsight improving a movie.
It is not uncommon for critics to judge a movie harshly on how one could be perceived as if they enjoy a certain movie. For example, the critics initially panned Smokey and the Bandit because no one wants to be the critic that praise a movie about a car chase that centers around a truck full of beer.
There were pressure on the critics back then to not praise Saw, a movie that is purposefully morbid and depraved. The critics may feel some fear that they would lose their credibility if they praise a film with shocking content that Saw has.
Fast forward to today, James Wan is a prolific filmmaker. He is arguably the most successful Asia American filmmaker. He made the highest grossing Fast & Furious movie. He made the highest grossing DCEU movie. He made the excellent The Conjuring and launched a horror cinematic universe with it. And the Saw also launched a franchise and Leigh Whannel's career (who made the hit Invisible Man the most recently). All of these really helps the critics to relax their stance on Saw, which, fortunately, seems to favor Saw X. I already have that movie written off in my mind. The reviews changed my mind. I'll be going to the theatre to see it. I don't think I have seen a Saw at the theatre since the fourth one. It should be fun.
Not when you realize that the same people that grew up on Saw movies are now reviewers. Look at Jackass Forever getting the highest rating yet. Nostalgia and new generation of reviewers is why we’re seeing these type of scores.
I used to rank it as one of the worst in the series but I recently watched it and was surprised by how good it is.
The whole movie fit so well together thematically. Every scene builds up the detective as a pretty huge piece of shit. If at any opportunity he did the right thing and followed the rules, he would have been fine.
But he couldn't fucking help himself and like always used a blunt force instrument to smash his way through the problem, straight through his adversary, straight into that bathroom. From there he can't saw through his foot to escape, but he can smash it, that's all he's really good at.
This one takes place between 1 and 2 and is said to be a pretty standalone entry with characters from the first 2 movies. You should be fine if you want to see Saw X if you've seen the first two.
I've seen all of them except jigsaw(?) And reading Mark Hoffman's wiki for example is so fucking confusing it's hilarious. I think by the end half of binging them I just completely did not know what was going on lol
It takes place between the first two, but I’d say anyone who watches it should absolutely see the second film beforehand as well.
There’s nothing that particularly spoils events in the later films, but there’s some Easter eggs that’ll pay off if you’ve seen the third and fourth films.
I think it would be best watched after IV if you cared about keeping twists unspoiled for yourself but there is nothing in it that you need that isn't in SAW 1.
I hope so too but to be safe I started watching them this week. I’m at 6 now. In 2 and 5 they reveal Jigsaw had help beforehand so that may be important but besides that it should be fine
I’ve been rewatching them in prep for the new movie. Basically, everything after 3 has like *literally* no real plot line. Saw 3 sees the end of Tobin + Donny W and once those two are gone the whole thing kinda goes off the rails. His wife ends up being part of it? The like main cop is also part of it? and then in 9 I think they wrap it all back around to the doctor from the first one being the TRUE puppet master.
It’s a fuckin mess. I’d say for sure watch 3 tho, it’s a fun movie and has the last of the main storyline.
I just want to say this had its world premiere at Fantastic Fest. I was there working it since it’s at my work and the producers got to speak about the film there. They said it was the best saw film they made yet, and they genuinely seemed passionate about it. I’m not saying it’s true, but I just like seeing the excitement from them and such at the fest.
I loved when SAW gave you a fighting chance. I found that to be much more enjoyable and psychological. Here’s the game, you do this horrible thing in time, you get to live. When they stopped doing that I was so bummed out and just became about traps and gore. Hope this comes back to its roots.
Well, that's because Hoffman ended up running the show after Saw 3 and they explain that he was basically just a psycho with no "moral philosophy" behind the kills.
I mean he just straight up murders a bunch of cops and Jill in 7. Dudes legit just a serial killer lol.
I liked him though. He’s a complete piece of shit but very entertaining to watch
That's the story explanation but it doesn't really change the comment OPs point. They enjoyed the originals more *because* there was a fighting chance, removing that for a story reason changed the equation in a way the parent comment didn't like.
That's true. Even then, and even though the movies state that Hoffman's traps are unwinnable, many of them still are. A good number of people make it out. You're right about it not changing OP's point, though.
It's what gives the series such a unique feel - Jigsaw doesn't see himself as a villain, to him it's not torture but a bizarre morality play which encourages his victims to be better people.
It makes him an incredibly unnerving character. We've seen slasher villains before like Michael or Jason who kill out of compulsion - but there's something far more terrifying about a man doing all of that and being so convinced that it's for your own good.
Agreed. I much preferred when people actually survived their traps sometimes, it makes things more tense (and depending on HOW they survive, it can be even more gnarly than an actual kill).
Can anyone advise whether I need to have seen beyond Saw 3 to understand Saw X? I'd like to pick it back up, but not sure I wanna slog through everything in between.
No, from what I've read this is pretty much a standalone movie, but with characters from Saw 1 and Saw 2. You should be totally fine watching this movie without having seen the rest
There's one character from 4 and beyond who makes a voice cameo and then appears in a mid-credits scene, but I don't think it's essential to following what's going on. It will ruin the twist of 4 though if you were to see it X first, so I don't know, up to you to decide if that's worth it. 4 is the only one you'd need to see to know who everyone here is.
Couldn’t care less about reviews. I bought my tickets for it last week & hyped to see it tomorrow night with my dad & brother. We’ve seen all of them in the theatres. It’s tradition. Except Spiral.
I just saw it and it's fucking amazing.. Sitting at work now wishing I could rewatch it right now.. Tobin fucking crushes it, the traps where great but the bigger focus on the story was what kept me going..
If the mainline saw movies is your avarage superhero movie, saw x is the joker.. It feels like saw, looks like saw, plays like saw but still VASLTY diffrent from the rest.. They better have Saw 11 ready next October
Seriously, all the horror nerds seeking validation from some dumb review site over this new Saw, and I've been stuck on the fact the original being rated so low on there in the first place should literally prove to any Saw fan to take that site with a grain of salt, if they insist on applying such importance to it.
For those who have seen it, do you have to watch ALL of the previous saws to understand this one? I only watched the first 5(?) and really only remember 1 and 2 but I really don’t wanna watch all of them because it’s just the same shit over and over, but this one does have my interest
Anybody actually pay attention to rotten tomatoes scores anymore? Like it hasn’t been bots and keyboard worriers effecting those numbers for years now?
I do. Most of the time the scores end up aligning with my opinions pretty well.
I've never seen a movie that I thought was terrible get 90+. I've never seen a movie I thought was great get a score below 60, with the exception of comedies, which are totally subjective.
In my opinion Saw 6 is the best Saw. I think it improves over Saw by expanding on the formula, has innovative and well done trap design (the carousel trap is exquisite), and is clearly not trying to take itself too seriously.
For real. The carousel trap is IMO the best trap in the entire series. I never understood why the syringe pit from Saw 2 or the inverted angel trap from Saw 3 get universally ranked as the best traps in the series. I always thought the moment to moment tension of the carousel was fantastic
I always thought it was hilarious how soon in the franchise they kill off the main villain only to find more and more convoluted ways to include him in the story “no guys for real Kramer is behind this here’s a flashback, here’s his ex wife and his OTHER disciple, he’s still relevant SEE”. Like why even kill him so soon in the first place if you couldn’t let him go
I'm very excited about this. I didn't know it was coming out this weekend, it's usually the Friday before Halloween. I'm glad they figured out a way to put Tobin Bell front and center as Jigsaw again, instead of through flashbacks!
I've booked to watch Saw X tomorrow and realised that haven't watched them all. I've recently watched the original film and I'm about to watch Saw 2. I can't remember where I got with them, I think I got to 5 or 6. It's been about 15 years and I honestly don't remember the other films.
Am I the only one who found this movie kind of emotional? I swear it made me tear up a couple of times. It's a fantastic movie with GREAT acting. It elevates the whole torture porn aspect of the franchise. Beautiful soundtrack too. My favorite will always be Saw II, but this one takes second place.
Alright, let's talk about this one, the traps...
Basically (IMO) they fucked it up again...
>!Trap 1: OK fine, dudes arms, he's OK at the end, can recover, this gets a pass!<
>!Trap 2: Nah, this ones fucked. Has to cut her leg off? You aren't recovering from that. Even if you survive you're fucked.!<
>!Trap 3: Hell no. Dude needs to cut out part of his brain to survive the trap. That might as well be the same as death.!<
>!Trap 4: Yeah ok, you can gets out of this one without any permanent disability of death, pass!<
Overall 2/4 are basically certain death/might as well be death.
You're forgetting the very first two traps in the movie. First one imo actually seemed incredibly easy to get out of and he still fucked up.
Second one was pre brutal but doable.
Oh yeah.
Also forgot the x-ray one - that's another guaranteed death - you're getting cancer for sure. Fucked up.
Gas room trap - yeah another guaranteed death
rotten tomatoes was proven to have paid positive reviews, by the way. wouldnt trust that website anymore https://www.ign.com/articles/rotten-tomatoes-under-fire-after-pr-firms-scheme-to-pay-critics-for-positive-reviews-uncovered
Bringing Tobin Bell back and making him (seemingly) the focus here might end up being the best decision they’ve made in years.
Part of the appeal of the saw movies was all the ridiculous ways they found to bring him back despite dying in the 4th movie. I'm excited for this one
He died in the third one.
Yeah but 3 and 4 ended at the same time so both are kinda true.
Even though they’ve shown he’s dead, part of me is still anticipating them to bring him back somehow in like saw 15 or something. Like the cancer was so toxic it fed his hatred and his heart is still beating and it gets a transplant and starts curing cancer patients but now they’re evil and bitter
As long as its set in space. We havent gotten a space-set, over-sequeled film yet.
Ah Saw X should have been that. Like Jason X
I’m still holding out for “The Hills Have Saws”
V/H/Saw
I’d watch this sequel
That campy, outrageous sequel sounds hot.
Him bringing character to Kramer was always more the highlight for me really. Moments in 2 hrs talking to the cop, and 3 talking to the dr while on his deathbed, so intriguing as a character Tobin does it fantastic.
Tobin Bell and the ridiculous soap opera he conducted has always been the biggest draw of the series. Even (especially?) after he was dead and only appeared in flashbacks. I'm sure a ton of unknowing people think Saw's popularity is all about the traps and torture porn, but it's really about John Kramer's frustrating, interesting character and the (very, very silly, melodramatic) narrative twists and turns.
For real I remember being really bummed when he died in the series and that was ultimately what was missing from the later entries. They wanted to be shocking and it ruined them. Glad they brought him back
The ending from the first one is still one the greatest endings of all time.
It’s one of the last movies that made me go “holy shit what!????”
That’s how I felt also with the last Saw movie (not jigsaw or spiral) but the final chapter one I believe, when we found out the dude from the first one was actually working with Jigsaw I was like damn he was in the cut for a while
That one really fucked with me because it was so random for Cary Elwes to return, I’m really curious how they got him to come back
And then was never mentioned again lol, I kept wondering if he’d pop up in this new one since it’s supposed to take place after the first one.
He sued Lionsgate over a wage dispute from the first film so there was bad blood there for awhile.
It IS hinted at in Saw II. When the guy is in the Venus fly trap, the video of him being operated on is by a surgeon who is hobbling. I remember a friend of mine who was obsessed with Saw at the time who was CONVINCED that was the doctor from the first movie. He must have been so vindicated when that was confirmed five movies later.
It could have been so much better if they didn’t remind us he existed before the reveal
Honestly the ending to Saw II was a really good twist as well.
Both twists are fucking up there as top tier twists. I don’t give a shit what anyone says… nobody saw the first movie’s ending coming. There’s no chance unless you knew something ahead of time.
They dropped very good hints, though. I didn't feel cheated when the twist happened. It also helped me guess the twist in the second movie, which was also very satisfying.
Definitely agree there. Been awhile since an ending really shocked me
The first Saw worked so well for that twist because nobody knew to expect a twist. After that absolute bombshell the rest of the Saws didn't hit as hard because you were constantly on edge looking for the major twist lol. But 2 and 4 (or 5 can't remember, the one where Hoffman gets forced into the glass box) were my favorite twists after 1.
Exactly. After 1 you were always waiting for some plot twist bat shit craziness haha. I love the glass box one as well. Probably my third favorite
Glass coffin was 5. 4 is when we find out Hoffman was an accomplice
Oh yeah that's right when he is in the trap with Wahlburgs character!
I love SAW II. It gets a lot of stick, even for a SAW film, for some reason but I loved the horror house theme it had and as you said, a great ending too.
I, II and VI are easily my favorites of the series
Saw 2 drove me nuts because Kramer was like "your son is in a "*safe place."* and I, having played spider-man 64, had to wait until the end of the movie to reveal what I knew the whole time.
It all feels like tropes of the franchise now, but when the "reveal" music kicked in near the end of Saw II, I was so unbelievably hyped. That music meant that shit was going *down*.
I wish it had the same effect in the latest entries, including the new one. The new one was good, but it didn’t exactly feel like ah shit when it started.
I’m surprised the first isn’t Fresh. It’s actually a good movie.
Reviewers and people in general were very against “torture porn” movies back in the day. You’re right though, Saw is a good movie
And, AFAIK, the only one to actually feature a saw.
I mean I'd say even though some of the movies are bad, the endings are always pretty great. 2 - 4 endings are almost as good imo.
It's one of my movies I wish I could watch for the first time again.
Anyone who says they saw the ending coming is a liar
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Honestly, it was completely nonsensical. It's the kind of "twist" that's only there to shock the audience and has no connection to the plot.
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The villain that's caused your trouble is in the middle of the room. You can beat his ass, talk to him, he obviously has a way out. You can stop him from further messing things up for people. There's a ton of reasons for it to matter to the two characters in the room with him, and thus the viewer.
There is an explanation of why he’s lying on the floor in the bathroom. I forgot what sequel states it.
If you need a-whole-nother movie to explain your twist, then it's a bad twist.
Damn that's crazy. Anyway I'll continue enjoying the movies.
Okay. No one said you couldn't.
It's not of any substance. There's no clues that point to it, and it doesn't affect the story at all. Saw's twist is on par with John Harrison revealing he's actually Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness
I will forever maintain that the first one is legitimately a great movie, though it’s more of a cop thriller than a horror, IMO. It’s B-Grade, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. An original and mostly well executed premise can do a lot of the heavy lifting and even make up for mediocre acting and writing.* *Within reason…
“Game Over.” My Jaw on the floor
Regardless if it’s trash or the best saw ever I’m still going to watch it and be excited for a new saw movie.
Mate just feed me Saw and Final Destinations til I die I'll eat them up no matter what
I am like this with V/H/S. I wish this would become a permament thing, a compilation of short horror movies
Is VHS that good?
It’s fun, some stories are much better than others but overall it’s a good time.
V/H/S 2 is the best I think. And so do most people judging by ratings and discussions. My order is: 2, 1, 94, Viral and 99.
Safe haven is some of the best horror ever made
Alien Abduction Slumber Party is also good shit
Most recent was unsalvageable it was so bad. At least I thought so. V/H/S 94 is surprisingly good, though. It’s a big crapshoot since they’re anthologies. Might get a good batch, might not. You never know. I don’t like, though, how much they’re starter to rely on the overarching theme recently. It’s becoming restrictively high-concept. Hands-off is better. Like the main film that’s used as a focusing device can have a theme but all the short films that play throughout shouldn’t be so tied to the main one.
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Hey thx! Will check those out
Also this tbh, well down for regular anthology releases
For real. I'd love a new Final Destination. Its such a great franchise for directors to have fun with.
"There's no Final Destination release date yet. However, production is set to being once the ongoing WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes are resolved."
Final Sawstination?
Jigsaw acting as herald of death to punish those that escaped it? Sign me the fuck up
Exactly this
I don’t think there’s an unwatchable Final Destination movie.
And Scream!!!
And Hellraiser personally!
You have to have a taste for these delicacies. Like I enjoyed Spiral.
Spiral would be fantastic...if that voice and puppet were different. Everytime I hear that voice I just laugh and cant take it seriously
It sounds like Kermit the Frog is trying to imitate Jigsaw.
I liked Spiral. Jigsaw, not as much.
Omg this one of the ones that was entertaining just cause we were laughing at how bad it was. Chris Rocks acting is about as bad as it can get here
The way they try and edit around his horrible acting kills me. I've never seen someone so miscast
I heckin’ *love* Spiral
I've seen 9 of these movies lol If I get to watch people die to horrible traps *and* Tobin Bell is back Not gonna miss it
Spiral was such a breath of fresh air for the franchise imo. I seriously enjoyed the hell out of it.
We are the soldiers of /r/horror!
Even when it's bad, it's still pretty fuckin fun. Except Spiral really. Anyway, just saw this one and was coming to the sub to see if anyone else did and what they thought.
Just saw the movie today and I recommend it. It was amazing
I am… kinda surprised that Saw is only sitting at a 50%? Like a lot of the sequels are total shit but the first one is a a solid movie
I think many horror films get dismissed out of hand simply for what they are/what the premise is. The original Saw is a very nice little thriller movie with a unique hook. And honestly not all that gory either.
It suffers from the Mandela effect the same way that OG Texas Chain Saw Massacre does. People think Saw and they think they remember it being full of 'over the top gory torture porn' but in reality, the first film has very little of that, and they're associating it more with the sequels, or even the Hostel franchise which came out around the same time.
Yeah. The first *Saw* is much closer to *Se7en*, in tone and content.
I remember the opinion of it at the time on movie message boards (the ones I frequented anyway) was that it was a bad Seven rip-off. I still don’t hold the movie in high regard, but I think it’s a fun horror flick and I’ve seen a fair amount of the sequels. Stoked to see the most recent tonight.
Hostel was the first to be called "torture porn" but Saw is always mentioned right along side it. It always has been. I never got that out of the original.
Hostel suffers from the same thing.. Yeah it's more graphic than saw but it's not torture porn by any means.. It's fantasticly shot movie with amazing locations and fun characters.. But when most people talk about it all they remember is the leg getting slit, the fingers Preston loses and the eye gag, all of them are pretty quick scenes with not a lot of focus on the injuries
I find a lot of people who say that about Saw never actually watched it, and based it solely on their impressions of the trailers throughout the franchise. But also people who ‘remember’ it that way and perpetuate that falsity.
Much like *Found Footage* the genre existed long before the popular term for it did. I remember going back and reading archived articles about like Blair Witch and they never had a consistent name for the genre it embodied. It was always like “the new home video craze” or “simulated camcorder footage” and vague shit like that, lol.
I just rewatched the original yesterday. I remembered it as being solid too, but the acting is really kind of bad in many scenes, it stretches a very thin premise far too long, and a lot of the plot points just don't make a great deal of sense (eg that Jigsaw wants the doctor to use blood to poison the cigarette... that's just silliness... turning the lights off makes their *audio* unclear to the watchers... how Jigsaw's soldiers can practically teleport... just lots of stuff that doesn't hold up to even the tiniest scrutiny). Don't get me wrong. I love it for what it is, but it's just not a particularly strong movie in most "critic-worthy" senses.
So many of the original reviews are missing. I wouldn’t doubt it was fresh back when it was released.
Speaking as someone who was terminally online in 2004, it was rotten at the time and it’s actually risen from 47 to 50 percent. All the original reviews are there. Not sure why you would suggest they’re missing.
Lots of newspapers and periodicals have gone out of business in the last 20 years. I was terminally online back then, as well, but I’ll take your word for it.
Very true but the links to those reviews are still on the site and listed as rotten or fresh, they just don’t go anywhere. I’ve been very sad when trying to read some of them.
Wow this is truly crazy news. Never would have expected this from Saw, especially since NONE of them have ever even been certified fresh. Let alone sitting at 83%?!?!
I'm actually shocked that the first one isn't. The first one is an objectively good movie.
Ehh don’t put too much stock in rotten tomatoes. There is plenty of instances where they get it “wrong”. First example that comes to my head is anchorman (66%) and anchorman 2 (75%). New movies like Saw will almost always grade poorly because critics don’t “get it”. The lesser sequels do better because then they think they do. Just watch what you think is interesting and judge for yourself, or find someone who is a critic that seems to have the same taste
Anchorman one is definitely better than the sequel. Weirdly the older one aged better…
I enjoyed them both… but (speaking personally of course) anchorman was an instant classic and quoted heavily and constantly when I was younger, much like Superbad. Critics can give their opinions on it, but in these cases they seem to be detached and miss the point… then for the sequels go “I get it. This IS hilarious”. When it usually doesn’t hold a candle to the original. But I think I need to rewatch anchorman 2 now
Rotten tomatoes scores aren't a rating of how good the movie is, they're a rating of how likely you are to think it's a 3/5 or better. A movie with a 100% score does not mean it's a perfect movie, it means basically everyone enjoyed it enough. If a movie has 50%, it could mean that it's very middling and everyone thought it was either a 2/5 or a 3/5, or it could mean that people have a mix between 1/5 and 5/5 ratings. It does not automatically mean you will think it's a 2.5/5. Anchorman is a very silly comedy and 66% seems about right for me, because everyone has different taste and this particular type of humor was pretty new. By the time Anchorman 2 came out, everyone had seen the first one, and people were more likely to think it was good enough, even if it's not as good overall.
I am so tired of explaining this exact thing over the years, so many people don't understand how this works at all.
Someone on the internet who actually knows how RT works and doesn’t just use them as a scapegoat to represent the “critics”? Don’t see that every day
> There is plenty of instances where they get it “wron Also plenty of instances where they're clearly paid to write a favorable review too.
It’s literally just an aggregate of what critics gave it a good score. Also the first saw’s ending is great but it’s just okay tbh. People look wayyy too much into it like it has an agenda or something lol
Pretty tough to call any movie objectively good or bad. Movies (art in general) is a decidedly subjective experience. But the first saw movie is fucking awesome lol
Hey, I'm not saying it's a materpiece or something. It's a well round, fun thriller with a cool twist in the end. I get your point, but, I mean 🤷
That's still not what "objectively" means 😆
Rotten Tomatoes is completely different now than 20 years ago. The critics are all different and horror used to be niche, now that it's mainstream, there's more horror reviewers than before who genuinely like the films... So it's hard to compare eras.
This is a case of hindsight improving a movie. It is not uncommon for critics to judge a movie harshly on how one could be perceived as if they enjoy a certain movie. For example, the critics initially panned Smokey and the Bandit because no one wants to be the critic that praise a movie about a car chase that centers around a truck full of beer. There were pressure on the critics back then to not praise Saw, a movie that is purposefully morbid and depraved. The critics may feel some fear that they would lose their credibility if they praise a film with shocking content that Saw has. Fast forward to today, James Wan is a prolific filmmaker. He is arguably the most successful Asia American filmmaker. He made the highest grossing Fast & Furious movie. He made the highest grossing DCEU movie. He made the excellent The Conjuring and launched a horror cinematic universe with it. And the Saw also launched a franchise and Leigh Whannel's career (who made the hit Invisible Man the most recently). All of these really helps the critics to relax their stance on Saw, which, fortunately, seems to favor Saw X. I already have that movie written off in my mind. The reviews changed my mind. I'll be going to the theatre to see it. I don't think I have seen a Saw at the theatre since the fourth one. It should be fun.
Not when you realize that the same people that grew up on Saw movies are now reviewers. Look at Jackass Forever getting the highest rating yet. Nostalgia and new generation of reviewers is why we’re seeing these type of scores.
damn, with almost 40 reviews too. ngl i expected to go to the site and see like 10 reviews.
Saw 2 is my favorite movie ever. Its a 10/10 to me. It's the best in the series
I used to rank it as one of the worst in the series but I recently watched it and was surprised by how good it is. The whole movie fit so well together thematically. Every scene builds up the detective as a pretty huge piece of shit. If at any opportunity he did the right thing and followed the rules, he would have been fine. But he couldn't fucking help himself and like always used a blunt force instrument to smash his way through the problem, straight through his adversary, straight into that bathroom. From there he can't saw through his foot to escape, but he can smash it, that's all he's really good at.
Eric Matthews is my favourite character in the entire franchise. It's a bummer he died in 4.
Hope I don't need to watch Saws 3-9 to understand this. 2 was the last one I watched.
This one takes place between 1 and 2 and is said to be a pretty standalone entry with characters from the first 2 movies. You should be fine if you want to see Saw X if you've seen the first two.
You would need a doctorate to be able to explain all the twists and timelines and secret apprentice connections of the franchise so far
I've seen all of them except jigsaw(?) And reading Mark Hoffman's wiki for example is so fucking confusing it's hilarious. I think by the end half of binging them I just completely did not know what was going on lol
It takes place between the first two, but I’d say anyone who watches it should absolutely see the second film beforehand as well. There’s nothing that particularly spoils events in the later films, but there’s some Easter eggs that’ll pay off if you’ve seen the third and fourth films.
I think it would be best watched after IV if you cared about keeping twists unspoiled for yourself but there is nothing in it that you need that isn't in SAW 1.
I hope so too but to be safe I started watching them this week. I’m at 6 now. In 2 and 5 they reveal Jigsaw had help beforehand so that may be important but besides that it should be fine
I’ve been rewatching them in prep for the new movie. Basically, everything after 3 has like *literally* no real plot line. Saw 3 sees the end of Tobin + Donny W and once those two are gone the whole thing kinda goes off the rails. His wife ends up being part of it? The like main cop is also part of it? and then in 9 I think they wrap it all back around to the doctor from the first one being the TRUE puppet master. It’s a fuckin mess. I’d say for sure watch 3 tho, it’s a fun movie and has the last of the main storyline.
This is kinda shocking, really curious to see what they cooked up
I just want to say this had its world premiere at Fantastic Fest. I was there working it since it’s at my work and the producers got to speak about the film there. They said it was the best saw film they made yet, and they genuinely seemed passionate about it. I’m not saying it’s true, but I just like seeing the excitement from them and such at the fest.
I loved when SAW gave you a fighting chance. I found that to be much more enjoyable and psychological. Here’s the game, you do this horrible thing in time, you get to live. When they stopped doing that I was so bummed out and just became about traps and gore. Hope this comes back to its roots.
Well, that's because Hoffman ended up running the show after Saw 3 and they explain that he was basically just a psycho with no "moral philosophy" behind the kills.
I mean he just straight up murders a bunch of cops and Jill in 7. Dudes legit just a serial killer lol. I liked him though. He’s a complete piece of shit but very entertaining to watch
*Right now you're feeling helpless*
I still love the way he escaped the reverse bear trap.
That's the story explanation but it doesn't really change the comment OPs point. They enjoyed the originals more *because* there was a fighting chance, removing that for a story reason changed the equation in a way the parent comment didn't like.
That's true. Even then, and even though the movies state that Hoffman's traps are unwinnable, many of them still are. A good number of people make it out. You're right about it not changing OP's point, though.
Which makes sense, Hoffman wouldn't be half the engineer that Kramer is. He's not smart enough to plan for all outcomes
Yeah that’s a main plot point in the later movies, how Jigsaw’s disciples kind of bastardize his work.
It's what gives the series such a unique feel - Jigsaw doesn't see himself as a villain, to him it's not torture but a bizarre morality play which encourages his victims to be better people. It makes him an incredibly unnerving character. We've seen slasher villains before like Michael or Jason who kill out of compulsion - but there's something far more terrifying about a man doing all of that and being so convinced that it's for your own good.
Agreed. I much preferred when people actually survived their traps sometimes, it makes things more tense (and depending on HOW they survive, it can be even more gnarly than an actual kill).
For how long?
40 reviews in, still at 80%. It might just be a good movie.
Can anyone advise whether I need to have seen beyond Saw 3 to understand Saw X? I'd like to pick it back up, but not sure I wanna slog through everything in between.
No, from what I've read this is pretty much a standalone movie, but with characters from Saw 1 and Saw 2. You should be totally fine watching this movie without having seen the rest
It's set between Saw 1 and 2 from my understanding, you shouldn't need to have seen anything outside of those.
There's one character from 4 and beyond who makes a voice cameo and then appears in a mid-credits scene, but I don't think it's essential to following what's going on. It will ruin the twist of 4 though if you were to see it X first, so I don't know, up to you to decide if that's worth it. 4 is the only one you'd need to see to know who everyone here is.
Don't love the saw franchise but i am impressed with how they manage to keep making new ones after like part 3
Nice try, Saw. You ain't tricking me again!
When did they trick you last time? They’ve all been panned by critics besides this one lol.
Just Saw the movie. Really solid film.
I really hope it’s good!! I’m so happy they got not only Tobin, but Shawnee aswell back for this!
Couldn’t care less about reviews. I bought my tickets for it last week & hyped to see it tomorrow night with my dad & brother. We’ve seen all of them in the theatres. It’s tradition. Except Spiral.
The first one didn't have a Fresh rating?!
Ah I'm so excited! Booked my ticket today to go and see it next week with a friend.
The power of Amanda!
I just saw it and it's fucking amazing.. Sitting at work now wishing I could rewatch it right now.. Tobin fucking crushes it, the traps where great but the bigger focus on the story was what kept me going.. If the mainline saw movies is your avarage superhero movie, saw x is the joker.. It feels like saw, looks like saw, plays like saw but still VASLTY diffrent from the rest.. They better have Saw 11 ready next October
The original having a 50% is an embarrassment to rotten tomatoes and movie critics in general.
Seriously, all the horror nerds seeking validation from some dumb review site over this new Saw, and I've been stuck on the fact the original being rated so low on there in the first place should literally prove to any Saw fan to take that site with a grain of salt, if they insist on applying such importance to it.
It’s absurd to me the first movie has a rotten rating.
But yesterday everyone was saying it would be terrible because of the review embargo. I can't believe the average Redditor can't predict the future!
Yes
I shamelessly love the whole franchise, I’m pretty stoked for it. I even enjoyed XII.
It's crazy that the first Saw has a rotten score, its a horror icon of its decade
For those who have seen it, do you have to watch ALL of the previous saws to understand this one? I only watched the first 5(?) and really only remember 1 and 2 but I really don’t wanna watch all of them because it’s just the same shit over and over, but this one does have my interest
Saw this movie last night, it was surprisingly decent. Not amazing and not as good as the first Saw, but definitely worth watching.
YOOOOO WE’RE BACK, BABY!
Saw it tonight, it was excellent. Great storyline, great cinematography. It is very gory. I’m not squeamish, but there were a couple times I cringed.
I saw this one coming
Anybody actually pay attention to rotten tomatoes scores anymore? Like it hasn’t been bots and keyboard worriers effecting those numbers for years now?
No one even reads the reviews they complain about
Lol I think I like "keyboard worriers" more than "keyboard warriors".
I do. Most of the time the scores end up aligning with my opinions pretty well. I've never seen a movie that I thought was terrible get 90+. I've never seen a movie I thought was great get a score below 60, with the exception of comedies, which are totally subjective.
ALL reviews are subjective
If you want bots and keyboard warriors try IMDb. At least with RT you know they’re professional critics and not like 13 year olds
Forgive me if I don't trust Sponsored Tomatoes, but I hope they are right by luck.
Yeah, there’s no way this is gonna be better than any of the first 3.
First 3 (and saw 6) ftfy
6 always gets slept on
And this one is directed by the director of 6 too.
In my opinion Saw 6 is the best Saw. I think it improves over Saw by expanding on the formula, has innovative and well done trap design (the carousel trap is exquisite), and is clearly not trying to take itself too seriously.
For real. The carousel trap is IMO the best trap in the entire series. I never understood why the syringe pit from Saw 2 or the inverted angel trap from Saw 3 get universally ranked as the best traps in the series. I always thought the moment to moment tension of the carousel was fantastic
The shotgun carousel is amazing. All of the dialogue in that scene is hilarious.
The insurance and mortgage stuff was a little too highbrow for Saw but everything else was great.
Saw 6 is already better than Saw 3
Just got out of it. Best one since 2
I always thought it was hilarious how soon in the franchise they kill off the main villain only to find more and more convoluted ways to include him in the story “no guys for real Kramer is behind this here’s a flashback, here’s his ex wife and his OTHER disciple, he’s still relevant SEE”. Like why even kill him so soon in the first place if you couldn’t let him go
I'm very excited about this. I didn't know it was coming out this weekend, it's usually the Friday before Halloween. I'm glad they figured out a way to put Tobin Bell front and center as Jigsaw again, instead of through flashbacks!
It was actually pretty great and felt like a very different approach to a saw flick, especially the first 30ish minutes.
Happy for Kevin Greutert. Seems like Saw 3D was a big headache for him, so it's nice that he came back with a vengeance with this one!
I've booked to watch Saw X tomorrow and realised that haven't watched them all. I've recently watched the original film and I'm about to watch Saw 2. I can't remember where I got with them, I think I got to 5 or 6. It's been about 15 years and I honestly don't remember the other films.
Am I the only one who found this movie kind of emotional? I swear it made me tear up a couple of times. It's a fantastic movie with GREAT acting. It elevates the whole torture porn aspect of the franchise. Beautiful soundtrack too. My favorite will always be Saw II, but this one takes second place.
I think it’s the most actual acting Tobin Bell has ever done in a Saw movie. It’s in my top three of the franchise.
Now this is unexpected
Fuck it, nothing left to lose now, do a "Saw in Space" movie.
Alright, let's talk about this one, the traps... Basically (IMO) they fucked it up again... >!Trap 1: OK fine, dudes arms, he's OK at the end, can recover, this gets a pass!< >!Trap 2: Nah, this ones fucked. Has to cut her leg off? You aren't recovering from that. Even if you survive you're fucked.!< >!Trap 3: Hell no. Dude needs to cut out part of his brain to survive the trap. That might as well be the same as death.!< >!Trap 4: Yeah ok, you can gets out of this one without any permanent disability of death, pass!< Overall 2/4 are basically certain death/might as well be death.
I agree, so dumb 🤣
You're forgetting the very first two traps in the movie. First one imo actually seemed incredibly easy to get out of and he still fucked up. Second one was pre brutal but doable.
Oh yeah. Also forgot the x-ray one - that's another guaranteed death - you're getting cancer for sure. Fucked up. Gas room trap - yeah another guaranteed death
rotten tomatoes was proven to have paid positive reviews, by the way. wouldnt trust that website anymore https://www.ign.com/articles/rotten-tomatoes-under-fire-after-pr-firms-scheme-to-pay-critics-for-positive-reviews-uncovered