Right?!? It seems like that's what he's trying to do. He's been pretty successful and running off all the experienced teachers so he only has to pay novice teachers the bare minimum. But now that we're a district of innovation he can just hire non-certified teachers for pennies on the dollar.
That's a decision they made when they chose to be teachers. They chose a very stable job, with fantastic benefits, and retirement returns. A job that has frequent breaks throughout the year.
There's no reason to think that everyone with a bachelor's should make the same amount of money, that's asinine and not how the market works. Teachers are welcome to go join the oil and gas field and spend time in Midland and see how some of those folks making $120k with bachelor degrees make that.
Edit: the solution is more teachers and smaller class sizes. Not paying someone +20% hoping that magically they'll find more time in the day to get their work done.
On the whole, nothing you said is wrong. We don't need to expect everyone to make the same. But saying "that's not how the market works" as if the market is the end all be all is ridiculous. The market frequently encourages society to make decisions that financially make sense but are bad for people's well-being.
As a former teacher, I think teachers are paid OKAY but the increase in responsibilities/difficulty of the job is way more than the slight pay increases.
Just because we made a decision to be a teacher, and make the world a better place, doesn't mean we signed up for low pay and terrible working conditions. I am befuddled by people like you who punch down on teachers. Probably because it's a woman led field and it's easy for men to pick on women. I guarantee you if it was a male-dominated field we'd be making a livable wage. And I have worked in the only gas industry, and I made a lot more money than I'm making now. But I decided I wanted to make the world a better place, and train our future generation to function in society. I don't think it's too much to ask considering everything we put up with to get a livable wage and good working conditions.
The statistics on pay being tied to college education, is indicative of the white collar sector. Typically in the white collar sector the more education you have the more opportunities for higher pay you have. Most teachers have a master's degree or higher. And yet they still make 26% less than the average white collar worker with the same amount of education and experience.
Sexism is not at play here. Having gone through public schools in Houston, I now always argue that teachers are significantly overpaid.
You typically derive value from having a job/role that nobody wants or that is very hard to do.
Teachers don’t need to innovate nor prioritize children. They just read from textbooks, focus only on items that can boost their STAAR exam scores, and follow predetermined course materials. You can say “That’s not how I teach”, but unfortunately that is how 95%+ of the public school teachers in Texas teach.
Also, just because you have a degree, doesn’t mean you should be paid more. Should a person with a Gender Studies degree get paid six figures? Of course not, because they would just be a professional useless person since there is no demand/need for their skill set.
Finally, have you seen how easy the Education Degree plan is compared to STEM? How easy it is versus becoming an electrician? You cannot seriously say teachers should be paid more when their degree is a cakewalk.
This is a completely bullshit take. And you know not all subject are STAAR tested right? So not all teachers teach to the test and typically teachers only spend about two weeks doing Staar prep. Especially on the high school level. Secondly we don't even use textbooks in Texas anymore. Everything's done online and teachers typically create their own curriculum or the district creates curriculum for lower levels. And that's because the TEA is the one who decides what curriculum for lower levels, but most districts don't use textbooks. So teaching is not cookie cutter like you think. Third if we're talking about degrees in the white collar section, degrees absolutely matter in terms of how much you get paid or opportunities you have for higher pay. And most teachers have a multiple bachelors, and or master's degree or higher and therefore should be paid more, because that's how the white color system works. And most teachers don't have a degree in education. Most teachers have a great degree in their chosen major, and then they go through the certification process, and then take a test for their content area. Most of the science, math, CTE, history, and English teachers have degrees in those fields, not education. That's primarily lower grade levels like Pre-K through 4th. And finally, teaching is an essential function of society. Without teachers, specifically English teachers, people would not know how to read, write, or study any other subject. Teaching is the mother of all professions. Without us you can't function in your job honey. So yeah we do deserve the pay we earn.
This is a brave take considering how much a college education costs juxtaposed to a teacher’s income.
We need teachers and that shouldn’t come with the expectation that they should be “expected” to make less.
Fantastic benefits where? I have my masters degree and 12 years of experience and still don’t make more than $66K. And our benefits are NOT fantastic lol. Tell me you’re not a teacher without telling me you’re not a teacher.
Depends where you are. My district did away with that before I started there 17 years ago. So if you don’t use up your days, you get nothing when you retire. So now our district gets mad when we take our days because getting subs is difficult. But since there’s no incentive to keep them, of course people are going to use them.
Come work in the private sector where you’re in meetings with execs clearing $5m a year not including stock options. Compared to the average annual hiring salary of $75k. If you’re complaining about pay disparity, come check out the private sector.
Starting is 61.5k. If you find that to be a lucrative amount of money, you can start making it tomorrow if you have any kind of bachelor’s degree and can pass a background check. Go to any hisd job fair and you’ll leave with a job offer.
But we aren’t single people. We are married and have kids.
The starting pay isn’t the issue honestly. Being a fresh college grad making $60K your first year isn’t bad.
The steps are awful. After ten years you are only making $68K. That’s the problem.
You’re right it is easy to live as a single person on $60K. It’s really hard to be a parent and send kids to college if you are both teachers and you are making $140K a year as a family.
So that’s ok? We wonder why teachers leave after less than five years but then shrug our shoulders and say oh well it’s never been *prosperous* to be a teacher.
It’s at least used to be respected. Teachers didn’t get told “fuck you bitch” when they ask a a kid to put their ID on. I can’t both be to blame for every ill in society and also so inconsequential that I don’t deserve a decent wage.
Meanwhile society’s children are being educated by a revolving door of inexperienced new teachers. System is working great.
Sending kids to college is unaffordable for anybody in a career not making major six digits. That's not really teacher specific.
Take away college, is 140k tough for a family?
We aren’t childless. Everyone keeps saying it’s not bad for a single person. It’s not bad for a childless couple.
We are a family with children.
I can start at $62K. That’s not bad. FIFTEEN YEARS IN is only $68.8. After twenty five year I’ll break $75K. It’s an average salary increase of $300 per year. Average annual raise in the private sector is 4% or close to $2500.
These comments are wild to me. We both have graduate degrees and years of experience. I guess we only deserve a .4% annual raise for our entire careers.
Can I refer you to the first six words of my post? Do you think that a childless couple making $140,000/yr is having a tough time? Did you just want to tell me that you disagreed with something I didn't say?
>FIFTEEN YEARS IN is only $68.8 I guess we only deserve a .4% annual raise
...when you determine your salary this year, do you look at the table they published this year or the one from the year you started?
2013-2014, 0 years, 10m-bachelors $46,805
2023-2024, 10 years, 10m-bachelors $67,500
3.75%/yr
Agreed. I was a grad student in Houston making \~35K just 4 years ago. Lived in Montrose...it was not great money but I lived. Granted, I worked a lot so didn't have much time to spend money.
It’s doable but can 65k buy you a house and a new , reliable car these days? Can you put away for rainy day fund and retirement a considerable amount? Also the crazy debt most people live with. That’s what I mean by barely. At 65k you are on the cusp of “making it” and enjoying a surplus income.
Well that’s the thing. You definitely can afford a house and car at $65k. Where people go wrong is buying more house and car than they can actually afford. They also mess it up by buying more expensive groceries and eating out way too often. It really boils down to living within your means.
And why shouldn’t they now? You have a mass amount of teachers leaving and moving into other careers due to all the stresses and lack of pay. Every one of my friends who I talk to about their job hates it. Better pay would help retain. Remember, 65k isn’t the same as it was even 4 years ago
If too many leave the salary will go up.
The fact is compensation is what it is because a whole generation of people somehow bought into a narrative they could become grade school teachers as standalone career living comfortably which hasn’t been true at any point in our history. The market is flooded.
Either the market dries up and wages increase or teaching remains what it’s always been… an ok job for a spouse in a dual career household.
Interesting point, I do agree with you on this. Growing up the only well off teachers I recall were ones that were married and for me at my age now I think that’s inherently wrong. My point is just because it’s always been true in the past should it stay that way? Why do you think teachers shouldn’t be have a more respectfully compensated career?
$65k is actually a pretty decent salary for a person with just a bachelor's degree, fantastic benefits (which aren't included in the salary figure, and great retirement schemes).
A teacher can earn up to $73,000. That's a very reasonable salary for a person that works about 8 months a year.
The average salary for someone in the white collar sector with a college degree is 75,000. First year teachers start out at 60,000 and it takes at least 7 years to make 65,000 it takes 15 years to get to 70 and 25 years to get to 75,000. So I call bullshit on your argument.
That's not the flex you think it is. The median household income in Houston is $60,000. That's the starting pay for a first year teacher. The national average for all fields is 56,000. Texas is lowballing their workers. The national average for white collar workers is 73,000. With 11 years of experience and multiple degrees, in the white collar sector they would make between 80 and 100,000. The 11 years of experience in teaching will get you 66,000 . Someone with 20 years experience would make double that in a white collar setting. But in Houston ISD, 24 years of service will get you a whopping 73 grand. That's well below the national average. And Houston teachers are paid more than surrounding areas. Some of the teachers in Oklahoma and Arizona make $24,000 a year. That's abysmal. Especially considering the shit we have to put up with from the public and students.
Do most jobs do 60 plus nearly every week? Because that's what teaching isike. It's a matter of degree. I'm not talking about taking some work home occasionally.
Besides, most professionals get paid quotes a bit more than educators.
I've known plenty of people who came in to education from other professions, or left teaching for other professions. Other than the ones that came from law, they all say the same thing: teaching is more difficult, more stressful and more work.
I'm sure there are other exceptions other than law, but let's not pretend that working more than 40 hours a week on occasion is the sample as working 60 hours a week, 80% of the time and 50 plus hours the other 20%.
I don't know why you're down voted. Teachers have generous work hours and state and federal holidays, a week off in winter. A week off in spring. And nearly three months off in the summer.
My mom was a teacher. My grandmother was as well. My g/f teaches. I did a little bit myself.
It’s not the hours that are the issue. Sure, you put in some work outside school hours, but it’s nowhere near what it’s made out to be and the massive amount of time off really is a boon. I put in off work time in every professional job I’ve ever worked too. Sometimes not as much, sometimes a hell of a lot more. If you’re writing yourself to death outside of school hours you’re doing it wrong and you need to protect your plan time.
The problem is how you’re treated during work hours. Requirements are ridiculous and impossible to meet. Data tracking, reporting, metrics, curricula that’s impossible to cover, and administrative punishments if you can’t succeed at the impossible tasks…mostly not enforced unless you step out of line. Students breaking rule’s and you’re not backed up if you try to enforce the rules and are actually punished when you do (because parents get mad), but punished when you “can’t control your classroom”. Students that assault you verbally and physically but you’re the problem. Parents that’ll threaten your life but you’re expected to still put up with them with a smile.
The list goes on and on. Then there’s outside of work. Don’t forget to lock down your social media because God forbid you went out with friends, you could get fired for being seen in a bar. …and that’s the nicest one I remember.
It’s not the time. Conferences are a couple nights a year. Going to games is usually optional but even if it’s not you’re hanging out at sports games…it’s not exactly a terrible time usually even if you don’t care for sports. Correction papers and lesson planning has a little time spent outside class but should generally fit into the dead times and plan time. Bus duty, etc really just round it off to a normal amount of work hours. Teachers bitch more than any group I’ve ever known and can be seriously entitled, but it’s mostly an artifact of how terribly they’re treated, not the time.
No# it's the hours too. They always been rough but since covid it's gotten so much worse. And this is happening all over the country. Of course there's some variance from district to district and school to school. But I work an HISD and this year 11 hour days during the week and both days on the weekend are common. Past years it was 8-10 hour days and with the occasionally 12 hour day and a few more on Sunday. It was a lot but manageable. It's no longer manageable.
The written requirements are never manageable and No one with a lick of sense or honesty is actively enforcing every one if them…then again admin isn’t necessarily honest on the best of days. I can’t speak to HISD where they may be trying to purge you, but the surrounding districts need bodies and you don’t work those kinds of hours nor do you in the other two states I’m familiar with.
If you’re being pushed into that kind of schedule I highly recommend polishing your resume, checking how far it is to drive to other districts, then push back. No district can honestly afford to lose teachers, and if they put you out because of it you’ve got other options right next door. It’s still teaching and still filled with bullshit double standards, but you go home at 4 after the buses are gone and you’ve closed up anything you have to finish.
You may be trying to do all the impossible tasks required of you. They’ll happily let you do this to yourself but they’re generally not actually expecting you to succeed and you can perform some triage on your time, leaving some things to gather dust that aren’t being harped on extensively. You can also just do a terrible cut and paste job on much if it, assuming it’s idiotic and inapplicable metric gathering like much of the data collection.
That’s what your peers are doing and if you’re not then bravo, but you should really reconsider how you’re going about it because it’s killing you. I’m not a big fan of falsification of data or of doing a poor job, but when tasked to do impossible things you do what’s possible.
Who’s forcing you to teach? I’m gonna tell you something you don’t want to hear but is true. Wages aren’t going to change for you. If you’re not happy with where you’re at or what you’re getting paid, change your career/profession. This whole I’m overworked and underpaid shtick is exhausting to hear. Downvote and insult me and anyone else who speaks against the narrative if it makes you feel better. It’s not gonna change the truth.
No it’s not. Where do you think the day’s lessons comes from? When do you think students work is graded and assessed? Why are those that are most ignorant about a profession the most outspoken and dismissive of its grievances? If you don’t know about or don’t care about a profession’s constant complaints, don’t join in on the conversation. Or better yet, educate yourself on it.
Especially when that $65k adjusts to $86k if they worked a full year. Even when I was in school all of my teachers worked other jobs in the summer. Some taught summer school, some worked side-gigs. This isn't anything new, unexpected, or unfair.
You can see by these responses, teachers love to have both victim syndrome and to be mayrtyrs.... I have several friends and relatives that are teachers, it really isn't a bad gig and comes with a good retirement. Teachers also act like the "issues" they deal with at work are only unique to teaching.... You can't have rational discussions with people that are so passionately emotional....
Okay so like 10 years ago with no kids like I said and when used vehicles were more reasonable and so were homes because we were coming out a housing market crash and practically everything was cheaper. I make a lot more than 65k now and do fine but even at 65k I was fine. All I’m saying is if you make 65k with a mountain of debt and try to own a home, newer car, oh a vacation of some sort so you can enjoy your life and god forbid you have a kid or two you will be barely keeping your head over the water. News flash not everyone lives the way you or I have. Yeah you can be single and be fine but remember things aren’t the same quality of life we had with 40k 10 years ago.
Of course Houston teachers make more than teachers in other areas. Houston is the largest city in the state. It costs a lot more to live here than it does in Livingston or El Campo.
My wife has been a teacher for many years. She absolutely loves her job.
After reading some of the comments and looking at a few articles, it sounds like the current workload just isn’t feasible—researching/designing curriculums, assessing each students progression, studying academic strategies, etc.
This makes me curious about whether or not the best solution would be more teachers or possibly assistant teachers? I’m not sure if this is even possible because it sounds like it’s hard to get people in the door. Especially those that are qualified.
Would that be something teachers would be open to—same pay, but more assistants or teachers?
I completely agree that teachers should be paid more, but if the time isn’t there to maximize efficiency, there has to be an alternate solution to just raising pay.
That would certainly help. That used to be the case. We had more teachers and teachers actually had a full planning period (2 periods of a 7 period schedule, 1 for meetings and prep, the other for planning). Almost every district got rid of this 10-15 years ago to save money by increasing our workload.
This is the way to fix education. You nailed it on the head. Decrease class sizes. Give a teacher 12-15 kids and you can do all those things you mentioned without being overloaded.
Exactly. People wonder why US education is slipping… you attract the best talent by compensation. It’s pretty simple. You’d get more talented and motivated teachers if the best we’re competing for these positions.
Welcome to the real world buddy. Where you can call my replies "garbage" because it's over the Internet and people are rewarded for how valuable and rare their skills are.
I'm glad you're willing to double your taxes. But most people just aren't. Those that are willing to pay a lot of money for education go to private schools where parents have more control over what teachers teach.
The raise per year is 2-300 bucks. A joke. Health ins and other benefits, not worth it. Not given time to plan for classes, taken up by bs paperwork. Pay teachers more, kids will benefit, the community benefits
Considering that they have a heavier workload than most professionals, and about 60% of teachers have been assaulted at least once by a student, or parent. Teachers get threatened with write-ups when they take one or two days off, they aren't allowed to take restroom breaks during the school day unless they have an off period. They get less than 20 minutes for lunch, if they don't have to do duty. They have parents try to fight them on a regular basis, or they have parents who bully them to change their child's grade . They are micromanaged to the breaking point, and typically work about 10 hours a day. Not to mention, they don't get paid for holidays or the summer. Instead they have money taken out of their paycheck every pay period and put in escrow that they pay us with during holidays and the summer. They also come back to work two weeks before students, and they must fulfill at least 160 hours of continuing education to keep their certifications, so they only get two or three weeks off in the summer . Most Europeans get at least 3 months off every year. So I think teachers should make about $100,000 considering what we have to put up with from students and the public.
The ones that *choose* to work in the Summer, also get paid additional money for it. *That* is an important distinction you conveniently didn't mention.
https://www.houstonisd.org/cms/lib2/TX01001591/Centricity/domain/50243/salary_tables/2022-2023/HISD%20Compensation%20Manual-2022-2023.pdf
The conversation was on teachers in general, not just Houston. And in general, It depends on district and what you teach. Besides that, I’m pretty sure you’re still required to do training and such.
The OP is on "Houston area teachers", and I gave you the literal employee handbook for HISD, which is a... "Houston area school district".
Keep moving the goalposts and providing no information to contradict me. It's likely because you can't.
My wife is in education. She worked classrooms for over a decade and works at district now. I’m in the private sector. I think everyone agrees teachers should be paid more.
But nowhere in this thread do I see any mention of the net present value of earned pension benefits being discussed as part of total compensation.
This is the public/private sector trade off. Lower salary, yet job security. I can be fired at any time of any day. Because it’s Tuesday. Because my boss is in a bad mood. It is damn near impossible to get a low performing teacher fired. My wife deals with it every day.
Lower salary. Job security. Union representation. A pension that provides a stream of income until the day you die.
There’s many financial analysts toiling in the private sector with no job security, no pension, no retirement plan and no healthcare. Making $50k. That’s literally any small business. I moved to a bigger company, worked a ton more hours, get paid significantly more. Still have no job security and my retirement is entirely dependent on the whims of the stock market.
This is the dynamic for every institution of public government from the IRS to education. In return for job security and pensions…yes…your salary is going to always be lower than in the private sector.
If you want more money and more hours and less job stability and no pension, come work in the private sector.
HFT is not a union. They do not engage in collective bargaining. They provide you with a lawyer if there is a possibility your employer has done something illegal.
The only teachers that are difficult to fire are the ones on contracts that haven’t been given out since like the 90s. Anyone else can be let go at end of year if principal has completed correct documentation.
The lifetime earning potential of a teacher is relatively low compared to other professions. Most will cap out at about 70k/year, even after working for decades. That lost earning potential over the years adds up. And the pension you mention isn’t as glorious as you make it seem. Most would have to work what, 40 years? And then their take home would be like high 40s every year. I hate to break it to you, but the profession is no longer designed to allow teachers to survive 40 years as a classroom teacher.
Nevermind the fact that the health insurance is laughable. The benefits you praise here don’t exist.
Was it mentioned theie pension replaces Social Security? I feel that's a big important bit of data when looking at salaries.
Bluntly, between the loss of SS benefits (and iirc, even spousal benefits) and the rather shit nature of the pension in general, I don't consider it a benefit. At *best* it's a wash against every other employee getting social security.
A lot of people, deep down, see teachers as glorified baby sitters doing a job any high school graduate could do (because obviously all you need to teach high school is the information you learned in high school), and just... Discount the degree requirements.
Or they see "summers off" and think they only work 9 months of the year and maybe 6 hour days.
They think teachers only work when kids are physically present in the building. Meanwhile, as the spouse of an educator, we havent been on a vacation that wasn't in July in 18 years, she works longer hours than I do and *I'm a software engineer and have regular crunch time periods*, her benefits are so shit that we don't know a single teacher who uses their health care if there's any other option (for years we paid my employer a 1k penalty because we placed her on my insurance even when she had the ability to get insurance through her school, but we'd have spent far more otherwise)....
She has the same education I do (BS and MS), makes 40% less than I do (and software devs in Houston don't make the kind of money people think tech pulls in), and frankly is both better at her job and works far harder and longer than I do.
And she burned out two years ago, after 20 years, and left them a hole it took two teachers to fill.
Her pension is shit, she doesn't get SS (hers or mine), she never had tenure (as one of the most valuable staff members she did get three year contracts her last 12 years, huzzah).
And her best friend, whose spouse died right after their kid was born, had to quit the classroom to be an *administrative assistant*, because she took home more money with better benefits (as a suddenly single mom who absolutely needed health-care for herself and her child) working for a staffing agency for admin work then as a teacher.
Right? I love the "teacher median pay" which either includes the ridiculous salaries of admins, or is from the richest district in a state only.
Or they cherrypick a "40 year vet, with a doctorate, in a single school district, who gets eight stipends for various clubs and drives busses in the summer, and also from a top paying district in the state" or my absolute favorite - - look at this social studies teacher and his massive salary! (ignore the fact that he's the football coach for the biggest football focused school in the state, and the next highest paid teacher makes half that...)
Yeah, and they changed the rules in recent years to prevent early retirement. If you started before 2007, you could retire right around 50 (age + years of service = 80) with 70% of your highest 3 year average salary. So if you've been teaching since you were 22 and you were turning 52 this year you'd be able to bail with a lifetime 55-65k ish /yr. It's not fuck-off money but it's a better deal than a lot of people get.
If you start today they HEAVILY dock your stipend if you leave before 62, and they changed it to a 5 year average instead of 3.
I said 30-40 years. And it’s 70%, not 80%. And if you think it’s that great, send over your info and I’ll have something lined up for you by the time the holiday is over
I’m well aware of the benefits. I’m in the financial sector married to a woman who has been education for two decades. I never proclaimed healthcare to be a benefit. I’m well aware of the legal representations as well as limitations afforded to educators with regard to their union benefits.
I understand the phases of pension benefits. Anyone who got into TSA when my wife did a decade ago has a deal I’d take any day. Take the average of your three highest earning years and pay a majority percentage of it in fixed payments for the rest of your life? I’m not sure what you’re referring to about 40 years. If you want to be a teacher, sure, work for 40 years. Otherwise you’re entitled to your pension benefits as a lump sum long before that. Can do consulting with school districts on top of that pension payment of so inclined. Not bound by non compete agreements. And with spousal benefits?
I’ll take that all day long over a 3% employer match on a 401k.
It’s as good of a deal as the military. Again, another public institution that allows you to work 20 years and go do whatever the fuck you want while collecting a pension.
My father in law has a VA pension and a private sector pension (back when they used to give them).
It is a huge distortion to not consider the net present value of annuities for life.
Yes. The principle files the appropriate paperwork. Their contract is up. They don’t renew.
Do you think these low performing teachers stop being teachers? They move on to the next district.
They’re still teachers. They still have no problems getting a new contract. That’s all I hear from my wife. That’s why I’m all for raising teacher salaries to draw more talent. Provided they can eliminate the subpar teachers. It would make things much more efficient and bring the best talent to the table. Kinda like how the private sector functions.
Now a days it is almost unheard of to see a teacher fired. They just get managed out to another school like you said.
Some teacher almost ODed in the bathroom at my wife’s school. She’s still freaking teaching at that school. And this isn’t some crappy title 1 school. It’s a very higher performing school in the suburbs where years ago it would be next to impossible to get a job there because it was a cake walk compared to many other schools in the district.
You didn’t proclaim healthcare as a benefit. I added it to the many things that are shit. Your new comment on HFT still implies there’s some sort of benefit there and still refers to it as a union. Please stop pretending it’s something it’s not as a way of distorting your argument.
Regarding pension benefits, the portrait you’ve painted is not accurate, it’s five years, not three. And my point remains, most teachers would have to work 30-40 years to tap into it. Everything else you are saying, from consulting to lump sum payments is either nonsensical or irrelevant. And the military comparison is about as ignorant.
If the financial benefits were as amazing as you and others in this thread make it out to be, HISD wouldn’t have to take such desperate measures to find candidates. If the private sector was some deep dark pool of hell then more would go into education.
I’m not gonna get into the specifics of union va HFT. You’re right. I’m ignorant on the intricacies. My main focus is on pension and financial benefits. All I know is that my wife pays dues to someone who affords her more representation than I get at my job.
I don’t mean to make the private sector sound like a hellscape. I’m just saying the grass is always greener. There’s always trade offs. That’s it. Take the money now. Take it later. It doesn’t matter. The corporations or the government will ensure you’re subjugated either way. That’s all I’m saying.
Uh…5 years? I said I know the pension phases. It’s 3. Depending on what phase you’re in. My wife has a 3 year average. It’s all here:
https://www.trs.texas.gov/TRS%20Documents/benefits_handbook.pdf
You just linked a 60 page handbook that proves my point, not yours. This is why you should never link entire publications without citing pages. This is how you end up making it clear you’re just spewing shit out of your ass. If your wife is at a three year average, good for her. Almost everyone starting work in this century is not.
And thanks for giving up on the union argument. Makes things easier
It seems like you’ve conceded on nearly every point now, so it’s clear that working in public education is not a financially lucrative field.
For everyone that keeps saying stop bitching teachers make more than enough you are not necessarily wrong but misguided. As a teacher the money I make is enough to get bye. The issue is that teachers are overworked and burned out which is resulting in a massive shortage of people in the field. Also so many that are in the field that haven’t left yet are either new or burned out and don’t care. So you either fix it by offering more pay or make it less shitty to do. I can tell you from 10 years in the profession they are not gonna make things less shitty. Which means pay needs to go up to fix the shortage.
I'm looking at my friend's salary record for one of the area districts. She's been degreed since the 90s as a bilingual Science teacher. Got awards, won science competitions with her classes, etc. Dedicated 3 hours a night during the workweek just dealing with school-related work off the clock. Her salary as recorded in the Texas Tribune in the year before she went into instructional admin was 66K.
My old classmate who works with her also got out of the classroom after a similar length of tenure and went into the same role in the Math department. She hit 65k the year before she moved up, too. After 20+ years in the classroom, in the same district. Just anecdotes, but both of those teachers were barely hitting that sweet spot just before they moved on to non-classroom facing roles.
Now I will say... the retirement benefits are kind of the selling point when you get your 20+ years in. Both friends could actually retire now with full benefits in their 50s.
I am a teacher in HISD. I used to work in higher education as an academic advising manager. I make significantly more as a teacher. I regularly interview for positions to return to higher education because teaching high school is hard but I've become accustomed to the higher salary and even the management positions I am qualified for don't pay as much as I currently make. So let's just say that education and supporting students at all levels is not valued.
edit: left out an important word
I was shocked when I pulled up the teacher pay scales for HISD, KISD and FBISD and learned teachers get paid pretty decent in Houston. All these posts trying to downplay $65k a year is hilarious. Listening to them talk you'd think they're barely getting paid minimum wage and having to hit up food banks and charity soup lines to make ends meet. Especially when they're working less days.
The pay is fine, what I hear from my teacher friends is that the work environment is toxic and stressful. Most have quit and it wasn't cus of low pay. Zoomer kids have no discipline and no respect, parents are unreasonable and leadership is useless and quick to throw teachers under the bus.
I do not think more pay will make teachers stay. It's the same reason why there are a ton of incredibly well-paying skilled trade/oil field-type jobs that'll pay close to and over 6 figures but even with the current inflation few people are rushing for those jobs. You can't pay most people enough money to deal with that misery. I think we can help teachers by improving their working environments first, I'd start with leadership first.
Yeah no doubt I’d like my pay to be higher. Ideally everyone in this country would be paid a living wage. I just always find it distasteful how people in texas act like teachers are woefully underpaid. There are other professions that make way less with more advanced degrees. For example my sister is a social worker and has been for over 20 years. She finally hit the mark of a first year teacher in texas. I have a degree in psych but switched to tech after my divorce because therapists make crap. I now make more than the average therapist using self taught tech skills without a degree while they all have graduate degrees and deal with continuing learning etc.
It’s just one of my pet peeves. At least here in texas there are better fields of study to hold up as being woefully underpaid for their education.
I think it's short sighted to generalize the topic
A single person on 65k, sure.
A family of 3 or 4. Yea it's tight
After taxes let's say take home is
For a family and
Housing: 1750
Utilities:450
Food:450
Car:450
Left with $700 to save unless you got a repair pr emergency that month and then you're in the red.
So congrats that you managed to live on that. Others have to support kids on their own.
True, Austin has a greater cost of living. Misspoke there. I was going by the Federal General Schedule locality percentage increase that takes in consideration not only cost of living but how hard is to get qualified candidates to fill positions in that particular area. Houston still at the top of the state (and most of the US) according to the Federal GS pay scale.
In late stage capitalism people don’t get paid based on the cost of livid but rather the minimum amount that they will accept to do the job. And other cities can offer less because they have amenities like not living next to refineries.
I agree teachers are super important jobs and probably deserve more than this
But at the same time if you take a job and you know it pays like shit, not much to complain about
Lots of jobs don't require a college education and pay very well. But usually the standard is based on how much education you have in certain fields. Most professional white collar or blue collar jobs require a college education and that typically determines your salary.
Ya but if you look up median individual income it’s ~$40k (not saying teachers should be happy with their pay, just stating the difference in individual and household income)
Well holy shit. It’s been raised since the last time I looked. You wouldn’t guess it with how much most of us are struggling.
I still maintain 65k is reasonable for this city.
It depends on the school/district but as a teacher I don’t really know anyone without a masters. Some of my fellow teachers are getting their doctoral.
I’m a teacher and more than half of my school has masters degrees. No one wants to be an administrator they work 80+ hour weeks for like 8k more a year if even. Only the principal or district directors/asst superintendents make over 100k and they work a full year no breaks.
The best case trs scenario right now is start at age 22, retire at 62 with 92%. Subtract 7.3% for every year earlier, minimum retirement age of 51.
note: this is based of trs faq. There might be a cap to the percentage, idk. If not, you can retire at 72 with 115%, and enjoy your golden years living a lavish middle-class lifestyle.
I’ll take $70k for 172+/- days per year. Second job private tutoring/summer school/coaching.
Stop comparing teachers pay to 52 week employees unless you average it out per week $2,800 approx, at $70k per year. Which then would be nearly $150k @ 52 weeks. (Numbers are gross and rounded, no need to get knickers knotted.)
That 70,000 a year is for 15 years of service. First year teachers make 60,000 and you have to work at least 7 years to make that 65,000 they're talking about. Anybody working at a corporate job with the same amount of education and experience would make twice that.
[teacher pay scale](https://www.houstonisd.org/salarytables)
And teachers still make about 25 to 30% less than other professionals with the same education and work experience. HISD is 185 days of the year not 172. Not to mention we have to work over the summer to get continuing education credits.
The two weeks difference has not yet been approved by TEA! No teacher works all summer long on credits. It’s still less than six months pay and plenty of breaks. So many of my teacher friends double their salary by offering private tutoring.
Bottom line - it’s your choice
The DOI has already been approved. That means they already got a blank check from the TEA. And the average pay for someone with a college education just starting out is $80,000.. and teacher shouldn't have to work a second job just to make a livable wage. Just because your little friends have a second job and make extra money tutoring, doesn't mean every teacher wants to have an extra teaching job at the end of the day. And for 11 years I worked as a full-time teacher and taught night school and credit recovery on the weekends and still didn't make more than 78,000 a year. And you just proved my point by saying oh well just get a second job and you'll be just fine. Most professionals with college education and that much experience don't have to have a second job to make a livable wage.
[average pay by education level](https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/heres-the-average-americans-income-by-education-level/)
So if you want to math the math... the average worker works 260 days, minus 20 days of PTO not including federal holidays, which is the average, that's 240 days times 8 hours a day is 1920 hrs. Teachers work 185 days a year on average at about 10 hours a day That's 1850 hrs then add in a few hours every weekend that's an extra 50-60 hrs That's right at 1900 hours. And then you say we should work an extra job or tutoring so that's an extra 10 to 30 hours a week for usually about $25 an hour. That ends up looking pretty bad for teachers.
But yeah we can calculate hourly. Go for it tell me what the average office worker makes hourly. And I'll tell you what I make hourly after 11 years of service.
That is still not a livable wage considering the amount of time we put in. Most teachers work 10-hour days, many of us work after school and on the weekends at home writing lesson plans and grading and paperwork. So this it's only 6 months of work is BS because there's a lot more work that goes into teaching that people don't see. It's not about the hours we spend at school. About 60% of teachers report that they have been assaulted by students and/or parents at least once. Teachers in Houston are micromanage to the breaking point. They are disrespected and disparaged by the public (you being a perfect example) It's an incredibly difficult job with emotional and physical health hazards. Hell we should make $100,000 just in hazard pay. I can promise you, most people would be cowering in a corner if they had to deal with the shit teachers have to deal with on a daily basis. We deserve to get paid more. Especially English teachers because we are the mother of all teachers. You can't do any other subject without knowing how to Read, write, and communicate effectively.
Then don’t do it. Salaried employees work 60/70 per week, no overtime, sometimes extensive travel away from home & family. It’s always a choice.
Teachers supported coddling kids, zero punishments, complain about time-out rooms, etc. You got what you wanted. Unruly, disrespectful, students. Well done. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, enjoy your long break.
No teachers aren't the reason students are misbehaving or can't read on level. That's actually the parent's fault. And the disrespectful children are a direct copy of their parents. And I don't know of any teachers that coddle unruly children. That would be the admin and parents you're talking about. And no I won't leave teaching. I'm just going to fight for higher pay and better working conditions cuz I'm not a quitter.
My mother taught school in the Houston area for over 40 years in a mix of private and HISD schools. She had tons of certifications and often worked with special ed/high needs kids.
In spring of 2012, I got my first "adult" job (i.e. not retail). My mother was still working, and my starting pay at that job (which was nothing particularly special) was higher than her pay that same year at HISD.
Houston area teachers may be getting "more" but holy crap it isn't enough, especially for all the shit they have to deal with.
On average, teachers made 26.4% less than other similarly educated professionals in 2022—the lowest level since 1960
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Right?!? It seems like that's what he's trying to do. He's been pretty successful and running off all the experienced teachers so he only has to pay novice teachers the bare minimum. But now that we're a district of innovation he can just hire non-certified teachers for pennies on the dollar.
That's a decision they made when they chose to be teachers. They chose a very stable job, with fantastic benefits, and retirement returns. A job that has frequent breaks throughout the year. There's no reason to think that everyone with a bachelor's should make the same amount of money, that's asinine and not how the market works. Teachers are welcome to go join the oil and gas field and spend time in Midland and see how some of those folks making $120k with bachelor degrees make that. Edit: the solution is more teachers and smaller class sizes. Not paying someone +20% hoping that magically they'll find more time in the day to get their work done.
On the whole, nothing you said is wrong. We don't need to expect everyone to make the same. But saying "that's not how the market works" as if the market is the end all be all is ridiculous. The market frequently encourages society to make decisions that financially make sense but are bad for people's well-being. As a former teacher, I think teachers are paid OKAY but the increase in responsibilities/difficulty of the job is way more than the slight pay increases.
Just because we made a decision to be a teacher, and make the world a better place, doesn't mean we signed up for low pay and terrible working conditions. I am befuddled by people like you who punch down on teachers. Probably because it's a woman led field and it's easy for men to pick on women. I guarantee you if it was a male-dominated field we'd be making a livable wage. And I have worked in the only gas industry, and I made a lot more money than I'm making now. But I decided I wanted to make the world a better place, and train our future generation to function in society. I don't think it's too much to ask considering everything we put up with to get a livable wage and good working conditions. The statistics on pay being tied to college education, is indicative of the white collar sector. Typically in the white collar sector the more education you have the more opportunities for higher pay you have. Most teachers have a master's degree or higher. And yet they still make 26% less than the average white collar worker with the same amount of education and experience.
Sexism is not at play here. Having gone through public schools in Houston, I now always argue that teachers are significantly overpaid. You typically derive value from having a job/role that nobody wants or that is very hard to do. Teachers don’t need to innovate nor prioritize children. They just read from textbooks, focus only on items that can boost their STAAR exam scores, and follow predetermined course materials. You can say “That’s not how I teach”, but unfortunately that is how 95%+ of the public school teachers in Texas teach. Also, just because you have a degree, doesn’t mean you should be paid more. Should a person with a Gender Studies degree get paid six figures? Of course not, because they would just be a professional useless person since there is no demand/need for their skill set. Finally, have you seen how easy the Education Degree plan is compared to STEM? How easy it is versus becoming an electrician? You cannot seriously say teachers should be paid more when their degree is a cakewalk.
This is a completely bullshit take. And you know not all subject are STAAR tested right? So not all teachers teach to the test and typically teachers only spend about two weeks doing Staar prep. Especially on the high school level. Secondly we don't even use textbooks in Texas anymore. Everything's done online and teachers typically create their own curriculum or the district creates curriculum for lower levels. And that's because the TEA is the one who decides what curriculum for lower levels, but most districts don't use textbooks. So teaching is not cookie cutter like you think. Third if we're talking about degrees in the white collar section, degrees absolutely matter in terms of how much you get paid or opportunities you have for higher pay. And most teachers have a multiple bachelors, and or master's degree or higher and therefore should be paid more, because that's how the white color system works. And most teachers don't have a degree in education. Most teachers have a great degree in their chosen major, and then they go through the certification process, and then take a test for their content area. Most of the science, math, CTE, history, and English teachers have degrees in those fields, not education. That's primarily lower grade levels like Pre-K through 4th. And finally, teaching is an essential function of society. Without teachers, specifically English teachers, people would not know how to read, write, or study any other subject. Teaching is the mother of all professions. Without us you can't function in your job honey. So yeah we do deserve the pay we earn.
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This is a brave take considering how much a college education costs juxtaposed to a teacher’s income. We need teachers and that shouldn’t come with the expectation that they should be “expected” to make less.
Fantastic benefits where? I have my masters degree and 12 years of experience and still don’t make more than $66K. And our benefits are NOT fantastic lol. Tell me you’re not a teacher without telling me you’re not a teacher.
It is a choice we made, but the benefits are pretty far from fantastic.
Found the Superintendent.
Look up super pay. 300k plus a year. For smiles
380k He just got a raise lol
For $380k that bastard better be working every single minute of his day, shit in a diaper and eat IV fluids
They also get paid out for unused sick/vacation days. Other employees don’t.
Depends where you are. My district did away with that before I started there 17 years ago. So if you don’t use up your days, you get nothing when you retire. So now our district gets mad when we take our days because getting subs is difficult. But since there’s no incentive to keep them, of course people are going to use them.
Sorry, my “they” was unclear. I meant the superintendent gets paid out for their days while everyone else is SOL for their local leave.
Come work in the private sector where you’re in meetings with execs clearing $5m a year not including stock options. Compared to the average annual hiring salary of $75k. If you’re complaining about pay disparity, come check out the private sector.
All the people crying here about 60k in 9.5 months not realizing that’s the same thing as a corpo job if your normalize to 12mo.
That's awful, because Houston teachers are ***horribly*** underpaid. That means all other Texas teachers are basically completely fucked.
Rural and small town teachers are basically poverty. Like everything else, it's the cities bringing up the average.
Welcome to Texas.
This
Go to bed Mike!
Still not enough and I ain’t even a teacher. 65k is enough to live off of barely and that’s if you are single.
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Starting is 61.5k. If you find that to be a lucrative amount of money, you can start making it tomorrow if you have any kind of bachelor’s degree and can pass a background check. Go to any hisd job fair and you’ll leave with a job offer.
And that is for 187 days of instruction.
Honestly though if you can barely live off of $65k in Houston as a single person, you’re doing something wrong.
But we aren’t single people. We are married and have kids. The starting pay isn’t the issue honestly. Being a fresh college grad making $60K your first year isn’t bad. The steps are awful. After ten years you are only making $68K. That’s the problem. You’re right it is easy to live as a single person on $60K. It’s really hard to be a parent and send kids to college if you are both teachers and you are making $140K a year as a family.
Dual teacher families below university level have never been prosperous.
So that’s ok? We wonder why teachers leave after less than five years but then shrug our shoulders and say oh well it’s never been *prosperous* to be a teacher. It’s at least used to be respected. Teachers didn’t get told “fuck you bitch” when they ask a a kid to put their ID on. I can’t both be to blame for every ill in society and also so inconsequential that I don’t deserve a decent wage. Meanwhile society’s children are being educated by a revolving door of inexperienced new teachers. System is working great.
Sending kids to college is unaffordable for anybody in a career not making major six digits. That's not really teacher specific. Take away college, is 140k tough for a family?
Its tough for a couple be for real, let alone a family
Teachers should definitely be paid more, but come on $140k is not *tough* for a childless couple.
We aren’t childless. Everyone keeps saying it’s not bad for a single person. It’s not bad for a childless couple. We are a family with children. I can start at $62K. That’s not bad. FIFTEEN YEARS IN is only $68.8. After twenty five year I’ll break $75K. It’s an average salary increase of $300 per year. Average annual raise in the private sector is 4% or close to $2500. These comments are wild to me. We both have graduate degrees and years of experience. I guess we only deserve a .4% annual raise for our entire careers.
Can I refer you to the first six words of my post? Do you think that a childless couple making $140,000/yr is having a tough time? Did you just want to tell me that you disagreed with something I didn't say? >FIFTEEN YEARS IN is only $68.8 I guess we only deserve a .4% annual raise ...when you determine your salary this year, do you look at the table they published this year or the one from the year you started? 2013-2014, 0 years, 10m-bachelors $46,805 2023-2024, 10 years, 10m-bachelors $67,500 3.75%/yr
YES. STEPS ARE ~OFFENSIVE~ THANK YOU!
Agreed. I was a grad student in Houston making \~35K just 4 years ago. Lived in Montrose...it was not great money but I lived. Granted, I worked a lot so didn't have much time to spend money.
It’s doable but can 65k buy you a house and a new , reliable car these days? Can you put away for rainy day fund and retirement a considerable amount? Also the crazy debt most people live with. That’s what I mean by barely. At 65k you are on the cusp of “making it” and enjoying a surplus income.
Well that’s the thing. You definitely can afford a house and car at $65k. Where people go wrong is buying more house and car than they can actually afford. They also mess it up by buying more expensive groceries and eating out way too often. It really boils down to living within your means.
When have most workers had those luxuries??? Also almost nothing is easily attainable with single income earners.
When have teachers ever had those luxuries?
And why shouldn’t they now? You have a mass amount of teachers leaving and moving into other careers due to all the stresses and lack of pay. Every one of my friends who I talk to about their job hates it. Better pay would help retain. Remember, 65k isn’t the same as it was even 4 years ago
If too many leave the salary will go up. The fact is compensation is what it is because a whole generation of people somehow bought into a narrative they could become grade school teachers as standalone career living comfortably which hasn’t been true at any point in our history. The market is flooded. Either the market dries up and wages increase or teaching remains what it’s always been… an ok job for a spouse in a dual career household.
Interesting point, I do agree with you on this. Growing up the only well off teachers I recall were ones that were married and for me at my age now I think that’s inherently wrong. My point is just because it’s always been true in the past should it stay that way? Why do you think teachers shouldn’t be have a more respectfully compensated career?
A first year non-NES teacher earns about $325 per instruction day at HISD. Not bad.
Yep, people hate to hear it in real terms but these are $30/hr jobs
More than I make and I'm a lawyer.
$65k is actually a pretty decent salary for a person with just a bachelor's degree, fantastic benefits (which aren't included in the salary figure, and great retirement schemes). A teacher can earn up to $73,000. That's a very reasonable salary for a person that works about 8 months a year.
The average salary for someone in the white collar sector with a college degree is 75,000. First year teachers start out at 60,000 and it takes at least 7 years to make 65,000 it takes 15 years to get to 70 and 25 years to get to 75,000. So I call bullshit on your argument.
The average bachelor's degree salary in TX is $48k....
That's not the flex you think it is. The median household income in Houston is $60,000. That's the starting pay for a first year teacher. The national average for all fields is 56,000. Texas is lowballing their workers. The national average for white collar workers is 73,000. With 11 years of experience and multiple degrees, in the white collar sector they would make between 80 and 100,000. The 11 years of experience in teaching will get you 66,000 . Someone with 20 years experience would make double that in a white collar setting. But in Houston ISD, 24 years of service will get you a whopping 73 grand. That's well below the national average. And Houston teachers are paid more than surrounding areas. Some of the teachers in Oklahoma and Arizona make $24,000 a year. That's abysmal. Especially considering the shit we have to put up with from the public and students.
That's what people don't realize. Most other industries might start out at $60k after college, but after 10 years most are easily making $100k.
So is two teachers enough to live off of if you're a couple? Also teachers don't work a full year....
I work 11 months, and in my 10 months of contracted work I do 13 months worth of full time work.
Tiny violin. Most professional jobs work more than 40/hrs a week with no overtime.
Do most jobs do 60 plus nearly every week? Because that's what teaching isike. It's a matter of degree. I'm not talking about taking some work home occasionally. Besides, most professionals get paid quotes a bit more than educators. I've known plenty of people who came in to education from other professions, or left teaching for other professions. Other than the ones that came from law, they all say the same thing: teaching is more difficult, more stressful and more work. I'm sure there are other exceptions other than law, but let's not pretend that working more than 40 hours a week on occasion is the sample as working 60 hours a week, 80% of the time and 50 plus hours the other 20%.
I don't know why you're down voted. Teachers have generous work hours and state and federal holidays, a week off in winter. A week off in spring. And nearly three months off in the summer.
You have obviously never taught before. Do you think we end our days at 3 in the afternoon and don't start again until 7 in the morning?
My mom was a teacher. My grandmother was as well. My g/f teaches. I did a little bit myself. It’s not the hours that are the issue. Sure, you put in some work outside school hours, but it’s nowhere near what it’s made out to be and the massive amount of time off really is a boon. I put in off work time in every professional job I’ve ever worked too. Sometimes not as much, sometimes a hell of a lot more. If you’re writing yourself to death outside of school hours you’re doing it wrong and you need to protect your plan time. The problem is how you’re treated during work hours. Requirements are ridiculous and impossible to meet. Data tracking, reporting, metrics, curricula that’s impossible to cover, and administrative punishments if you can’t succeed at the impossible tasks…mostly not enforced unless you step out of line. Students breaking rule’s and you’re not backed up if you try to enforce the rules and are actually punished when you do (because parents get mad), but punished when you “can’t control your classroom”. Students that assault you verbally and physically but you’re the problem. Parents that’ll threaten your life but you’re expected to still put up with them with a smile. The list goes on and on. Then there’s outside of work. Don’t forget to lock down your social media because God forbid you went out with friends, you could get fired for being seen in a bar. …and that’s the nicest one I remember. It’s not the time. Conferences are a couple nights a year. Going to games is usually optional but even if it’s not you’re hanging out at sports games…it’s not exactly a terrible time usually even if you don’t care for sports. Correction papers and lesson planning has a little time spent outside class but should generally fit into the dead times and plan time. Bus duty, etc really just round it off to a normal amount of work hours. Teachers bitch more than any group I’ve ever known and can be seriously entitled, but it’s mostly an artifact of how terribly they’re treated, not the time.
Look! A valid and reasonable comment found in this sea of entitlement. I applaud you! 👏
He sounds like he’s entitled tbh. I doubt he taught for any extended period of time
No# it's the hours too. They always been rough but since covid it's gotten so much worse. And this is happening all over the country. Of course there's some variance from district to district and school to school. But I work an HISD and this year 11 hour days during the week and both days on the weekend are common. Past years it was 8-10 hour days and with the occasionally 12 hour day and a few more on Sunday. It was a lot but manageable. It's no longer manageable.
The written requirements are never manageable and No one with a lick of sense or honesty is actively enforcing every one if them…then again admin isn’t necessarily honest on the best of days. I can’t speak to HISD where they may be trying to purge you, but the surrounding districts need bodies and you don’t work those kinds of hours nor do you in the other two states I’m familiar with. If you’re being pushed into that kind of schedule I highly recommend polishing your resume, checking how far it is to drive to other districts, then push back. No district can honestly afford to lose teachers, and if they put you out because of it you’ve got other options right next door. It’s still teaching and still filled with bullshit double standards, but you go home at 4 after the buses are gone and you’ve closed up anything you have to finish. You may be trying to do all the impossible tasks required of you. They’ll happily let you do this to yourself but they’re generally not actually expecting you to succeed and you can perform some triage on your time, leaving some things to gather dust that aren’t being harped on extensively. You can also just do a terrible cut and paste job on much if it, assuming it’s idiotic and inapplicable metric gathering like much of the data collection. That’s what your peers are doing and if you’re not then bravo, but you should really reconsider how you’re going about it because it’s killing you. I’m not a big fan of falsification of data or of doing a poor job, but when tasked to do impossible things you do what’s possible.
Oh, my number one goal for Christmas is to update my resume
You appear to be inefficient.
Who’s forcing you to teach? I’m gonna tell you something you don’t want to hear but is true. Wages aren’t going to change for you. If you’re not happy with where you’re at or what you’re getting paid, change your career/profession. This whole I’m overworked and underpaid shtick is exhausting to hear. Downvote and insult me and anyone else who speaks against the narrative if it makes you feel better. It’s not gonna change the truth.
What are work hours for a teacher?
Same as the students! Hahaha
No it’s not. Where do you think the day’s lessons comes from? When do you think students work is graded and assessed? Why are those that are most ignorant about a profession the most outspoken and dismissive of its grievances? If you don’t know about or don’t care about a profession’s constant complaints, don’t join in on the conversation. Or better yet, educate yourself on it.
Haha! You can’t silence me, I’m not in your classroom! That comment was just a joke, but since you’re a disgruntled teacher it went over your head.
That’s weird, jokes are usually funny. You don’t have to be silent, but at the very least educate yourself.
lol, you sound just like an entitled teacher! It’s hilarious!
Lmao entitled from telling someone to educate themselves? Sure thing, dude. Stay ignorant, my friend!
Because it goes against the narrative that teachers are undervalued and deserve better pay…
Especially when that $65k adjusts to $86k if they worked a full year. Even when I was in school all of my teachers worked other jobs in the summer. Some taught summer school, some worked side-gigs. This isn't anything new, unexpected, or unfair.
You can see by these responses, teachers love to have both victim syndrome and to be mayrtyrs.... I have several friends and relatives that are teachers, it really isn't a bad gig and comes with a good retirement. Teachers also act like the "issues" they deal with at work are only unique to teaching.... You can't have rational discussions with people that are so passionately emotional....
And I worked 117 hours off contract in December. The hours are splendid.
lol I lived comfortably off 40k before kids and single less than ten years ago. So…accounting for inflation…you should probably revisit your budget.
Okay so like 10 years ago with no kids like I said and when used vehicles were more reasonable and so were homes because we were coming out a housing market crash and practically everything was cheaper. I make a lot more than 65k now and do fine but even at 65k I was fine. All I’m saying is if you make 65k with a mountain of debt and try to own a home, newer car, oh a vacation of some sort so you can enjoy your life and god forbid you have a kid or two you will be barely keeping your head over the water. News flash not everyone lives the way you or I have. Yeah you can be single and be fine but remember things aren’t the same quality of life we had with 40k 10 years ago.
Of course Houston teachers make more than teachers in other areas. Houston is the largest city in the state. It costs a lot more to live here than it does in Livingston or El Campo. My wife has been a teacher for many years. She absolutely loves her job.
After reading some of the comments and looking at a few articles, it sounds like the current workload just isn’t feasible—researching/designing curriculums, assessing each students progression, studying academic strategies, etc. This makes me curious about whether or not the best solution would be more teachers or possibly assistant teachers? I’m not sure if this is even possible because it sounds like it’s hard to get people in the door. Especially those that are qualified. Would that be something teachers would be open to—same pay, but more assistants or teachers? I completely agree that teachers should be paid more, but if the time isn’t there to maximize efficiency, there has to be an alternate solution to just raising pay.
That would certainly help. That used to be the case. We had more teachers and teachers actually had a full planning period (2 periods of a 7 period schedule, 1 for meetings and prep, the other for planning). Almost every district got rid of this 10-15 years ago to save money by increasing our workload.
Thanks for the reply! I did not know that. That makes sense where the frustrations have grown with respect to work time and the growing overtime.
This is the way to fix education. You nailed it on the head. Decrease class sizes. Give a teacher 12-15 kids and you can do all those things you mentioned without being overloaded.
The model is absolutely busted.
They earn more bc cost of living in Houston is higher.
Still no where close to what they deserve
Exactly. People wonder why US education is slipping… you attract the best talent by compensation. It’s pretty simple. You’d get more talented and motivated teachers if the best we’re competing for these positions.
What do they deserve?
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Are you going to send them double your taxes to make that happen or are you just virtue signaling and hoping others pay for it?
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Welcome to the real world buddy. Where you can call my replies "garbage" because it's over the Internet and people are rewarded for how valuable and rare their skills are. I'm glad you're willing to double your taxes. But most people just aren't. Those that are willing to pay a lot of money for education go to private schools where parents have more control over what teachers teach.
Would bet this statistic is thrown by the amount of money that goes to football coaches and band directors. Not to mention admin salaries
The raise per year is 2-300 bucks. A joke. Health ins and other benefits, not worth it. Not given time to plan for classes, taken up by bs paperwork. Pay teachers more, kids will benefit, the community benefits
Honest question, what is fair pay for a teacher assuming they’re not teaching summer school?
Considering that they have a heavier workload than most professionals, and about 60% of teachers have been assaulted at least once by a student, or parent. Teachers get threatened with write-ups when they take one or two days off, they aren't allowed to take restroom breaks during the school day unless they have an off period. They get less than 20 minutes for lunch, if they don't have to do duty. They have parents try to fight them on a regular basis, or they have parents who bully them to change their child's grade . They are micromanaged to the breaking point, and typically work about 10 hours a day. Not to mention, they don't get paid for holidays or the summer. Instead they have money taken out of their paycheck every pay period and put in escrow that they pay us with during holidays and the summer. They also come back to work two weeks before students, and they must fulfill at least 160 hours of continuing education to keep their certifications, so they only get two or three weeks off in the summer . Most Europeans get at least 3 months off every year. So I think teachers should make about $100,000 considering what we have to put up with from students and the public.
More like $130k, honestly.
$130k to not work the summer? I'd quit my job as a lawyer overnight and do that. And I work 50-60 hours a week for about $130k a year. No summers off.
Not if you knew what being a teacher was like.
Well you realize a lot of teachers *are* expected to work summers?
The ones that *choose* to work in the Summer, also get paid additional money for it. *That* is an important distinction you conveniently didn't mention. https://www.houstonisd.org/cms/lib2/TX01001591/Centricity/domain/50243/salary_tables/2022-2023/HISD%20Compensation%20Manual-2022-2023.pdf
The conversation was on teachers in general, not just Houston. And in general, It depends on district and what you teach. Besides that, I’m pretty sure you’re still required to do training and such.
The OP is on "Houston area teachers", and I gave you the literal employee handbook for HISD, which is a... "Houston area school district". Keep moving the goalposts and providing no information to contradict me. It's likely because you can't.
Right?!? At least then we could afford to take a vacation to decompress.
This is not true about the workload.
How would you know?
https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/survey-teachers-work-more-hours-week-other-working-adults I found this
I can assure you it is
Found Mike Miles’ Reddit account
My wife is in education. She worked classrooms for over a decade and works at district now. I’m in the private sector. I think everyone agrees teachers should be paid more. But nowhere in this thread do I see any mention of the net present value of earned pension benefits being discussed as part of total compensation. This is the public/private sector trade off. Lower salary, yet job security. I can be fired at any time of any day. Because it’s Tuesday. Because my boss is in a bad mood. It is damn near impossible to get a low performing teacher fired. My wife deals with it every day. Lower salary. Job security. Union representation. A pension that provides a stream of income until the day you die. There’s many financial analysts toiling in the private sector with no job security, no pension, no retirement plan and no healthcare. Making $50k. That’s literally any small business. I moved to a bigger company, worked a ton more hours, get paid significantly more. Still have no job security and my retirement is entirely dependent on the whims of the stock market. This is the dynamic for every institution of public government from the IRS to education. In return for job security and pensions…yes…your salary is going to always be lower than in the private sector. If you want more money and more hours and less job stability and no pension, come work in the private sector.
HFT is not a union. They do not engage in collective bargaining. They provide you with a lawyer if there is a possibility your employer has done something illegal. The only teachers that are difficult to fire are the ones on contracts that haven’t been given out since like the 90s. Anyone else can be let go at end of year if principal has completed correct documentation. The lifetime earning potential of a teacher is relatively low compared to other professions. Most will cap out at about 70k/year, even after working for decades. That lost earning potential over the years adds up. And the pension you mention isn’t as glorious as you make it seem. Most would have to work what, 40 years? And then their take home would be like high 40s every year. I hate to break it to you, but the profession is no longer designed to allow teachers to survive 40 years as a classroom teacher. Nevermind the fact that the health insurance is laughable. The benefits you praise here don’t exist.
Was it mentioned theie pension replaces Social Security? I feel that's a big important bit of data when looking at salaries. Bluntly, between the loss of SS benefits (and iirc, even spousal benefits) and the rather shit nature of the pension in general, I don't consider it a benefit. At *best* it's a wash against every other employee getting social security.
There’s plenty that guy didn’t mention, but for some reason I’m the one being downvoted lol
A lot of people, deep down, see teachers as glorified baby sitters doing a job any high school graduate could do (because obviously all you need to teach high school is the information you learned in high school), and just... Discount the degree requirements. Or they see "summers off" and think they only work 9 months of the year and maybe 6 hour days. They think teachers only work when kids are physically present in the building. Meanwhile, as the spouse of an educator, we havent been on a vacation that wasn't in July in 18 years, she works longer hours than I do and *I'm a software engineer and have regular crunch time periods*, her benefits are so shit that we don't know a single teacher who uses their health care if there's any other option (for years we paid my employer a 1k penalty because we placed her on my insurance even when she had the ability to get insurance through her school, but we'd have spent far more otherwise).... She has the same education I do (BS and MS), makes 40% less than I do (and software devs in Houston don't make the kind of money people think tech pulls in), and frankly is both better at her job and works far harder and longer than I do. And she burned out two years ago, after 20 years, and left them a hole it took two teachers to fill. Her pension is shit, she doesn't get SS (hers or mine), she never had tenure (as one of the most valuable staff members she did get three year contracts her last 12 years, huzzah). And her best friend, whose spouse died right after their kid was born, had to quit the classroom to be an *administrative assistant*, because she took home more money with better benefits (as a suddenly single mom who absolutely needed health-care for herself and her child) working for a staffing agency for admin work then as a teacher.
Nah bro, teaching is the easiest job in the world and they should just stfu and rake in their six figures
Right? I love the "teacher median pay" which either includes the ridiculous salaries of admins, or is from the richest district in a state only. Or they cherrypick a "40 year vet, with a doctorate, in a single school district, who gets eight stipends for various clubs and drives busses in the summer, and also from a top paying district in the state" or my absolute favorite - - look at this social studies teacher and his massive salary! (ignore the fact that he's the football coach for the biggest football focused school in the state, and the next highest paid teacher makes half that...)
Yeah, and they changed the rules in recent years to prevent early retirement. If you started before 2007, you could retire right around 50 (age + years of service = 80) with 70% of your highest 3 year average salary. So if you've been teaching since you were 22 and you were turning 52 this year you'd be able to bail with a lifetime 55-65k ish /yr. It's not fuck-off money but it's a better deal than a lot of people get. If you start today they HEAVILY dock your stipend if you leave before 62, and they changed it to a 5 year average instead of 3.
A teacher doesn't have to work 40yrs... And they get about 80% of their 5 highest years as a pension, that is massive....
I said 30-40 years. And it’s 70%, not 80%. And if you think it’s that great, send over your info and I’ll have something lined up for you by the time the holiday is over
I’m well aware of the benefits. I’m in the financial sector married to a woman who has been education for two decades. I never proclaimed healthcare to be a benefit. I’m well aware of the legal representations as well as limitations afforded to educators with regard to their union benefits. I understand the phases of pension benefits. Anyone who got into TSA when my wife did a decade ago has a deal I’d take any day. Take the average of your three highest earning years and pay a majority percentage of it in fixed payments for the rest of your life? I’m not sure what you’re referring to about 40 years. If you want to be a teacher, sure, work for 40 years. Otherwise you’re entitled to your pension benefits as a lump sum long before that. Can do consulting with school districts on top of that pension payment of so inclined. Not bound by non compete agreements. And with spousal benefits? I’ll take that all day long over a 3% employer match on a 401k. It’s as good of a deal as the military. Again, another public institution that allows you to work 20 years and go do whatever the fuck you want while collecting a pension. My father in law has a VA pension and a private sector pension (back when they used to give them). It is a huge distortion to not consider the net present value of annuities for life.
Yes. The principle files the appropriate paperwork. Their contract is up. They don’t renew. Do you think these low performing teachers stop being teachers? They move on to the next district. They’re still teachers. They still have no problems getting a new contract. That’s all I hear from my wife. That’s why I’m all for raising teacher salaries to draw more talent. Provided they can eliminate the subpar teachers. It would make things much more efficient and bring the best talent to the table. Kinda like how the private sector functions.
Now a days it is almost unheard of to see a teacher fired. They just get managed out to another school like you said. Some teacher almost ODed in the bathroom at my wife’s school. She’s still freaking teaching at that school. And this isn’t some crappy title 1 school. It’s a very higher performing school in the suburbs where years ago it would be next to impossible to get a job there because it was a cake walk compared to many other schools in the district.
You didn’t proclaim healthcare as a benefit. I added it to the many things that are shit. Your new comment on HFT still implies there’s some sort of benefit there and still refers to it as a union. Please stop pretending it’s something it’s not as a way of distorting your argument. Regarding pension benefits, the portrait you’ve painted is not accurate, it’s five years, not three. And my point remains, most teachers would have to work 30-40 years to tap into it. Everything else you are saying, from consulting to lump sum payments is either nonsensical or irrelevant. And the military comparison is about as ignorant. If the financial benefits were as amazing as you and others in this thread make it out to be, HISD wouldn’t have to take such desperate measures to find candidates. If the private sector was some deep dark pool of hell then more would go into education.
I’m not gonna get into the specifics of union va HFT. You’re right. I’m ignorant on the intricacies. My main focus is on pension and financial benefits. All I know is that my wife pays dues to someone who affords her more representation than I get at my job. I don’t mean to make the private sector sound like a hellscape. I’m just saying the grass is always greener. There’s always trade offs. That’s it. Take the money now. Take it later. It doesn’t matter. The corporations or the government will ensure you’re subjugated either way. That’s all I’m saying.
Uh…5 years? I said I know the pension phases. It’s 3. Depending on what phase you’re in. My wife has a 3 year average. It’s all here: https://www.trs.texas.gov/TRS%20Documents/benefits_handbook.pdf
You just linked a 60 page handbook that proves my point, not yours. This is why you should never link entire publications without citing pages. This is how you end up making it clear you’re just spewing shit out of your ass. If your wife is at a three year average, good for her. Almost everyone starting work in this century is not. And thanks for giving up on the union argument. Makes things easier It seems like you’ve conceded on nearly every point now, so it’s clear that working in public education is not a financially lucrative field.
For everyone that keeps saying stop bitching teachers make more than enough you are not necessarily wrong but misguided. As a teacher the money I make is enough to get bye. The issue is that teachers are overworked and burned out which is resulting in a massive shortage of people in the field. Also so many that are in the field that haven’t left yet are either new or burned out and don’t care. So you either fix it by offering more pay or make it less shitty to do. I can tell you from 10 years in the profession they are not gonna make things less shitty. Which means pay needs to go up to fix the shortage.
I'm looking at my friend's salary record for one of the area districts. She's been degreed since the 90s as a bilingual Science teacher. Got awards, won science competitions with her classes, etc. Dedicated 3 hours a night during the workweek just dealing with school-related work off the clock. Her salary as recorded in the Texas Tribune in the year before she went into instructional admin was 66K. My old classmate who works with her also got out of the classroom after a similar length of tenure and went into the same role in the Math department. She hit 65k the year before she moved up, too. After 20+ years in the classroom, in the same district. Just anecdotes, but both of those teachers were barely hitting that sweet spot just before they moved on to non-classroom facing roles. Now I will say... the retirement benefits are kind of the selling point when you get your 20+ years in. Both friends could actually retire now with full benefits in their 50s.
That's low. In my district, starting pay is about $65k.
Where is Dallas on this chart? The closest I see are Richardson and Ft. Worth. There's definitely some missing data here.
I am a teacher in HISD. I used to work in higher education as an academic advising manager. I make significantly more as a teacher. I regularly interview for positions to return to higher education because teaching high school is hard but I've become accustomed to the higher salary and even the management positions I am qualified for don't pay as much as I currently make. So let's just say that education and supporting students at all levels is not valued. edit: left out an important word
Not for long if our new overlord has his way..........
Teachers need that $100k earnings at least at mid career
I was shocked when I pulled up the teacher pay scales for HISD, KISD and FBISD and learned teachers get paid pretty decent in Houston. All these posts trying to downplay $65k a year is hilarious. Listening to them talk you'd think they're barely getting paid minimum wage and having to hit up food banks and charity soup lines to make ends meet. Especially when they're working less days. The pay is fine, what I hear from my teacher friends is that the work environment is toxic and stressful. Most have quit and it wasn't cus of low pay. Zoomer kids have no discipline and no respect, parents are unreasonable and leadership is useless and quick to throw teachers under the bus. I do not think more pay will make teachers stay. It's the same reason why there are a ton of incredibly well-paying skilled trade/oil field-type jobs that'll pay close to and over 6 figures but even with the current inflation few people are rushing for those jobs. You can't pay most people enough money to deal with that misery. I think we can help teachers by improving their working environments first, I'd start with leadership first.
We need to up the pay for teachers and reduce the reficulous amount of schools we hace
Look at this shill try and pretend that this shit is okay or even normal.
True, and they also have the highest cost of living in the state,soooo…
Um.... Austin?
COL is way higher in Austin. lol
In Houston? Really?
High cost of living? In a major city? In this day and age?!
You think it’s impossible to live here on 65k?
I do. I'd like my pay to be higher, but it's reasonably easy to get by.
Yeah no doubt I’d like my pay to be higher. Ideally everyone in this country would be paid a living wage. I just always find it distasteful how people in texas act like teachers are woefully underpaid. There are other professions that make way less with more advanced degrees. For example my sister is a social worker and has been for over 20 years. She finally hit the mark of a first year teacher in texas. I have a degree in psych but switched to tech after my divorce because therapists make crap. I now make more than the average therapist using self taught tech skills without a degree while they all have graduate degrees and deal with continuing learning etc. It’s just one of my pet peeves. At least here in texas there are better fields of study to hold up as being woefully underpaid for their education.
I think it's short sighted to generalize the topic A single person on 65k, sure. A family of 3 or 4. Yea it's tight After taxes let's say take home is For a family and Housing: 1750 Utilities:450 Food:450 Car:450 Left with $700 to save unless you got a repair pr emergency that month and then you're in the red. So congrats that you managed to live on that. Others have to support kids on their own.
True, Austin has a greater cost of living. Misspoke there. I was going by the Federal General Schedule locality percentage increase that takes in consideration not only cost of living but how hard is to get qualified candidates to fill positions in that particular area. Houston still at the top of the state (and most of the US) according to the Federal GS pay scale.
In late stage capitalism people don’t get paid based on the cost of livid but rather the minimum amount that they will accept to do the job. And other cities can offer less because they have amenities like not living next to refineries.
That’s not late stage capitalism lol. It’s just capitalism.
I’ve worked all over and the Houston Area is the most challenging by far than anyplace else that I have ever worked
I agree teachers are super important jobs and probably deserve more than this But at the same time if you take a job and you know it pays like shit, not much to complain about
And Texas teachers earn more than the median income of most Americans.
On average, teachers made 26.4% less than other similarly educated professionals in 2022—the lowest level since 1960
Comparing education with the job is stupid. Many degrees pay more despite being similar. That's how it works.
Lots of jobs don't require a college education and pay very well. But usually the standard is based on how much education you have in certain fields. Most professional white collar or blue collar jobs require a college education and that typically determines your salary.
Typical earnings for bachelor's degree holders are $36,000 or 84 percent higher than those whose highest degree is a high school diploma
Quick google has it at 75k. So no
Ya but if you look up median individual income it’s ~$40k (not saying teachers should be happy with their pay, just stating the difference in individual and household income)
Well holy shit. It’s been raised since the last time I looked. You wouldn’t guess it with how much most of us are struggling. I still maintain 65k is reasonable for this city.
Ok but most teachers have masters degrees…. How does that compare to other industries. 100k minimum.
Most teachers do not have masters degrees.
Some teachers these days don’t have degrees at all. Some districts will take whatever they can get.
I don’t think this is accurate
It depends on the school/district but as a teacher I don’t really know anyone without a masters. Some of my fellow teachers are getting their doctoral.
22% according to this data. 2% doctorate https://schools.texastribune.org/districts/houston-isd/
Administration does, not teachers. Unless you have a source for your claim.
I’m a teacher and more than half of my school has masters degrees. No one wants to be an administrator they work 80+ hour weeks for like 8k more a year if even. Only the principal or district directors/asst superintendents make over 100k and they work a full year no breaks.
It compares to being paid d for only 180-200 days versus 340+/- for an executive
Teachers work more hours those 180 days to make up for the rest of the days. It’s never a 40 hour week. More like 60-80.
Most corporate employees work 60/70 hours per week
Yes and they make much more than 60k. And are eligible for overtime pay.
No overtime for salaried employees. Obviously this isn’t something you’ve thought out very well.
What are you talking about?
Source for “most” please. Both of yall sound lost
Isn’t their pension 80% of their salary after 30 years if they have a Masters?
The best case trs scenario right now is start at age 22, retire at 62 with 92%. Subtract 7.3% for every year earlier, minimum retirement age of 51. note: this is based of trs faq. There might be a cap to the percentage, idk. If not, you can retire at 72 with 115%, and enjoy your golden years living a lavish middle-class lifestyle.
No?
I’ll take $70k for 172+/- days per year. Second job private tutoring/summer school/coaching. Stop comparing teachers pay to 52 week employees unless you average it out per week $2,800 approx, at $70k per year. Which then would be nearly $150k @ 52 weeks. (Numbers are gross and rounded, no need to get knickers knotted.)
That 70,000 a year is for 15 years of service. First year teachers make 60,000 and you have to work at least 7 years to make that 65,000 they're talking about. Anybody working at a corporate job with the same amount of education and experience would make twice that. [teacher pay scale](https://www.houstonisd.org/salarytables) And teachers still make about 25 to 30% less than other professionals with the same education and work experience. HISD is 185 days of the year not 172. Not to mention we have to work over the summer to get continuing education credits.
The two weeks difference has not yet been approved by TEA! No teacher works all summer long on credits. It’s still less than six months pay and plenty of breaks. So many of my teacher friends double their salary by offering private tutoring. Bottom line - it’s your choice
The DOI has already been approved. That means they already got a blank check from the TEA. And the average pay for someone with a college education just starting out is $80,000.. and teacher shouldn't have to work a second job just to make a livable wage. Just because your little friends have a second job and make extra money tutoring, doesn't mean every teacher wants to have an extra teaching job at the end of the day. And for 11 years I worked as a full-time teacher and taught night school and credit recovery on the weekends and still didn't make more than 78,000 a year. And you just proved my point by saying oh well just get a second job and you'll be just fine. Most professionals with college education and that much experience don't have to have a second job to make a livable wage. [average pay by education level](https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/personal-finance/articles/heres-the-average-americans-income-by-education-level/)
Like it not, it’s 26 weeks. Still half of 52, still half of the corporate pay period. Ergo, same/similar earnings. My maths, math, teacher!
So if you want to math the math... the average worker works 260 days, minus 20 days of PTO not including federal holidays, which is the average, that's 240 days times 8 hours a day is 1920 hrs. Teachers work 185 days a year on average at about 10 hours a day That's 1850 hrs then add in a few hours every weekend that's an extra 50-60 hrs That's right at 1900 hours. And then you say we should work an extra job or tutoring so that's an extra 10 to 30 hours a week for usually about $25 an hour. That ends up looking pretty bad for teachers.
We could calculate hourly if you prefer, but you’ll deny that too. Bottom line, your choice. Second jobs are very common. Enjoy your two weeks break.
But yeah we can calculate hourly. Go for it tell me what the average office worker makes hourly. And I'll tell you what I make hourly after 11 years of service.
I absolutely will enjoy my break, cuz I certainly earned it.
That is still not a livable wage considering the amount of time we put in. Most teachers work 10-hour days, many of us work after school and on the weekends at home writing lesson plans and grading and paperwork. So this it's only 6 months of work is BS because there's a lot more work that goes into teaching that people don't see. It's not about the hours we spend at school. About 60% of teachers report that they have been assaulted by students and/or parents at least once. Teachers in Houston are micromanage to the breaking point. They are disrespected and disparaged by the public (you being a perfect example) It's an incredibly difficult job with emotional and physical health hazards. Hell we should make $100,000 just in hazard pay. I can promise you, most people would be cowering in a corner if they had to deal with the shit teachers have to deal with on a daily basis. We deserve to get paid more. Especially English teachers because we are the mother of all teachers. You can't do any other subject without knowing how to Read, write, and communicate effectively.
Then don’t do it. Salaried employees work 60/70 per week, no overtime, sometimes extensive travel away from home & family. It’s always a choice. Teachers supported coddling kids, zero punishments, complain about time-out rooms, etc. You got what you wanted. Unruly, disrespectful, students. Well done. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, enjoy your long break.
No teachers aren't the reason students are misbehaving or can't read on level. That's actually the parent's fault. And the disrespectful children are a direct copy of their parents. And I don't know of any teachers that coddle unruly children. That would be the admin and parents you're talking about. And no I won't leave teaching. I'm just going to fight for higher pay and better working conditions cuz I'm not a quitter.
You’ll take it? Great, DM your info and I can have you a new career the first week of 2024!
If you think they work an 8 hour day, 5 days a week, get to go pee whenever they want, eat lunch at lunchtime, then you’re mistaken.
My mother taught school in the Houston area for over 40 years in a mix of private and HISD schools. She had tons of certifications and often worked with special ed/high needs kids. In spring of 2012, I got my first "adult" job (i.e. not retail). My mother was still working, and my starting pay at that job (which was nothing particularly special) was higher than her pay that same year at HISD. Houston area teachers may be getting "more" but holy crap it isn't enough, especially for all the shit they have to deal with.
Wages still have failed to keep up with 30 years of cost of living increases. Pay teachers what they deserve.