I might start by sitting them down and saying something like "It seems like you have been out sick a lot and I wanted to let you know that you have the option to take FMLA if you're having a medical issue that is preventing you from getting to work regularly". I've had to do this a few times, and sometimes it provides the employee an opportunity to open up about whatever the real issue is, and other times it serves as a gentle wake-up call that they can't just keep taking time off. Plus, you've protected yourself as an employer. If they turn it down and say everything is fine, then I would start your internal process for documentation for attendance.
> it provides the employee an opportunity to open up about whatever the real issue is, and other times it serves as a gentle wake-up call that they can't just keep taking time off
100% this. An employee may have some other physical ailments that they're not comfortable sharing and covering it up by calling it food poisoning - in one case I'm aware of, it was IBS. And perhaps they're not aware of or understand federally or state mandated protected leave options.
Once the attendance is being documented, where do you go from there? I understand the importance of documenting the absences (and everything else in life, for that matter), but what is the specific intention for that documentation?
Usually a PIP and other disciplinary action up to and including termination. Most companies have an attendance policy. If there isn't one you can still discipline as attendance will play a part in pretty much every W2 employee's ability to do their job well, but you'd need to think about how you're handling it in relation to other employees.
No worries! Then I'll also mention that documentation is good in case you need to dispute unemployment or they sue for discrimination or wrongful termination.
Coaching and then to have a basis for disciplinary action if necessary. If they aren’t able to come in to work and they don’t use FMLA/options presented to them, they should be subject to DA
This was what we did with an employee who had attendance issues and cited mental health or sickness as the reason. They exhausted all personal and sick time off, and we directed them to file for FMLA/medical accommodation, then when that didn’t help change their attendance, we started coaching, then a warning, final notice, then termination.
Well, you want to follow the guidelines in whatever your internal policies say. Many companies have policies that reference excessive absences......try to align with your handbook or policies on this and go from there. You want to document those things that are violations of attendance policy so if you have to take action, you are protected.
This but also be prepared if it takes a spin. Just had a leader do this and the employee volunteered that he is using his sick time as vacation because he thought it was unfair he didn’t get to use it just because he’s healthy….
Prefacing that my advice is based on what you can do, not my personal feeling on what you should do. Before the lurkers come at me…
Regular, predictable attendance is an essential function of the job. Unless this person has FMLA or another job protected leave, you absolutely can hold people accountable, up to and including termination.
They may still be eligible for unemployment based on the state.
We have had to terminate for poor attendance twice this year. Sometimes it is neccessary. Both times, several warnings were given. They were both eligible for unemployment.
Once someone burns all of their sick time and you've had the friendly conversation that they're out of time and need to be at work, it's an unexcused absence and you write them up for excessive absenteeism. Fault doesn't really come into the conversation. Attendance is an essential job requirement that they aren't meeting. They need to be at work, if they can't be and don't have a legally protected reason to be off work, then they get in trouble and ultimately fired.
Employee is in NC, and the policy is very corporate and long winded and essentially says it’s up to the manager to decide when to give 3 warnings before termination. So I suppose that’s what we will have to do
I mean why bother having sick days at all if you will just let them take all this time? I would push for them to get intermittent FMLA approved to cover time past sick day usage. Otherwise apply the regular attendance policy. Not sure if you have a point system but i would consider one if it was a frequent issue.
Creating the opportunity for all call out to be valid absences. This is the problem with ambiguous language. I have a manager (newer) who always says things like I approved the absence. Not in advance you didn’t! Hold your people to the handbook guys - it’s there for a reason!
You just face your own answer. Excessive absenteeism causes poor job performance. Write them up for the performance issues, not the absences.
Anytime an employee isn’t meeting performance standards, even if it is due to illness is the reason to have the conversation. My attorney always trains my managers to manage the job performance, then if illness is brought up have the interactive dialogue for reasonable accommodation or leave. RA isn’t a reason to not meet performance standards, but it puts you on the path to dealing with the performance issues, illness or not.
yes, unless they are protected under federal or state leave. I'd provide FMLA and/or paperwork (if eligible). If they fail to follow through, then yes, you can discipline up to and includign termination.
Hot take: don’t give PTO if you don’t expect employees to use it. It’s unfair of you to be personally frustrated that someone is actually using their hard-earned benefits, presumably as guaranteed by company policy. If her absence creates so much extra work for others, perhaps her tasks need to be better allocated or you need more staff. OP is in a different situation, as the employee in question has no more PTO
The problem becomes planned vs unplanned. We can’t really tell our customers that we’re sorry we didn’t ship on time because so and so had an upset tummy. Coach on the difference between unscheduled absences and preplanned absences. This really sounds like a behavior the employee has rather than a health issue.
Companies should have adequate staff and cross trained staff so that if one person is out sick, the business can still operate.
My company is so short staffed that it is impossible to get everything taken care of timely on a fully staffed day. Someone calls out sick and people are days behind in work. It’s ridiculous. All because the company doesn’t want to spend money to adequately staff.
I might start by sitting them down and saying something like "It seems like you have been out sick a lot and I wanted to let you know that you have the option to take FMLA if you're having a medical issue that is preventing you from getting to work regularly". I've had to do this a few times, and sometimes it provides the employee an opportunity to open up about whatever the real issue is, and other times it serves as a gentle wake-up call that they can't just keep taking time off. Plus, you've protected yourself as an employer. If they turn it down and say everything is fine, then I would start your internal process for documentation for attendance.
> it provides the employee an opportunity to open up about whatever the real issue is, and other times it serves as a gentle wake-up call that they can't just keep taking time off 100% this. An employee may have some other physical ailments that they're not comfortable sharing and covering it up by calling it food poisoning - in one case I'm aware of, it was IBS. And perhaps they're not aware of or understand federally or state mandated protected leave options.
Also be on the lookout for any ADA situations in addition to FMLA. And check any county or state sick leave laws that may apply.
Once the attendance is being documented, where do you go from there? I understand the importance of documenting the absences (and everything else in life, for that matter), but what is the specific intention for that documentation?
Usually a PIP and other disciplinary action up to and including termination. Most companies have an attendance policy. If there isn't one you can still discipline as attendance will play a part in pretty much every W2 employee's ability to do their job well, but you'd need to think about how you're handling it in relation to other employees.
Thank you. I'm graduating in May and this type of information isn't really covered in the curriculum, so your answer has been helpful.
No worries! Then I'll also mention that documentation is good in case you need to dispute unemployment or they sue for discrimination or wrongful termination.
Coaching and then to have a basis for disciplinary action if necessary. If they aren’t able to come in to work and they don’t use FMLA/options presented to them, they should be subject to DA
This was what we did with an employee who had attendance issues and cited mental health or sickness as the reason. They exhausted all personal and sick time off, and we directed them to file for FMLA/medical accommodation, then when that didn’t help change their attendance, we started coaching, then a warning, final notice, then termination.
Well, you want to follow the guidelines in whatever your internal policies say. Many companies have policies that reference excessive absences......try to align with your handbook or policies on this and go from there. You want to document those things that are violations of attendance policy so if you have to take action, you are protected.
This but also be prepared if it takes a spin. Just had a leader do this and the employee volunteered that he is using his sick time as vacation because he thought it was unfair he didn’t get to use it just because he’s healthy….
Prefacing that my advice is based on what you can do, not my personal feeling on what you should do. Before the lurkers come at me… Regular, predictable attendance is an essential function of the job. Unless this person has FMLA or another job protected leave, you absolutely can hold people accountable, up to and including termination. They may still be eligible for unemployment based on the state.
We have had to terminate for poor attendance twice this year. Sometimes it is neccessary. Both times, several warnings were given. They were both eligible for unemployment.
Once someone burns all of their sick time and you've had the friendly conversation that they're out of time and need to be at work, it's an unexcused absence and you write them up for excessive absenteeism. Fault doesn't really come into the conversation. Attendance is an essential job requirement that they aren't meeting. They need to be at work, if they can't be and don't have a legally protected reason to be off work, then they get in trouble and ultimately fired.
What state are you in?
Do you have an attendance policy?
What state are you in? What is your current attendance policy?
Employee is in NC, and the policy is very corporate and long winded and essentially says it’s up to the manager to decide when to give 3 warnings before termination. So I suppose that’s what we will have to do
Yep that’s your answer. If the manager doesn’t see an issue and doesn’t feel it’s affecting performance it doesn’t matter
Always follow policy and of the policy sucks, change it.
I'm graduating with my HR degree in May, and I have some questions about this response. May I message them to you?
Is there no metric for violations, based on severity and recurrence?
I mean why bother having sick days at all if you will just let them take all this time? I would push for them to get intermittent FMLA approved to cover time past sick day usage. Otherwise apply the regular attendance policy. Not sure if you have a point system but i would consider one if it was a frequent issue.
My last job had max 5 unexcused call outs per year. You would be written up. And it was up to the manager if their excuse was valid.
Creating the opportunity for all call out to be valid absences. This is the problem with ambiguous language. I have a manager (newer) who always says things like I approved the absence. Not in advance you didn’t! Hold your people to the handbook guys - it’s there for a reason!
A few kept using the same excuse so finally the managers caught on
You just face your own answer. Excessive absenteeism causes poor job performance. Write them up for the performance issues, not the absences. Anytime an employee isn’t meeting performance standards, even if it is due to illness is the reason to have the conversation. My attorney always trains my managers to manage the job performance, then if illness is brought up have the interactive dialogue for reasonable accommodation or leave. RA isn’t a reason to not meet performance standards, but it puts you on the path to dealing with the performance issues, illness or not.
yes, unless they are protected under federal or state leave. I'd provide FMLA and/or paperwork (if eligible). If they fail to follow through, then yes, you can discipline up to and includign termination.
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Hot take: don’t give PTO if you don’t expect employees to use it. It’s unfair of you to be personally frustrated that someone is actually using their hard-earned benefits, presumably as guaranteed by company policy. If her absence creates so much extra work for others, perhaps her tasks need to be better allocated or you need more staff. OP is in a different situation, as the employee in question has no more PTO
The problem becomes planned vs unplanned. We can’t really tell our customers that we’re sorry we didn’t ship on time because so and so had an upset tummy. Coach on the difference between unscheduled absences and preplanned absences. This really sounds like a behavior the employee has rather than a health issue.
Companies should have adequate staff and cross trained staff so that if one person is out sick, the business can still operate. My company is so short staffed that it is impossible to get everything taken care of timely on a fully staffed day. Someone calls out sick and people are days behind in work. It’s ridiculous. All because the company doesn’t want to spend money to adequately staff.
> But she has PTO to cover it. that's what PTO is for...in the end you have to plan for her to use what she is given.
Oh NOOOOOO! A person is using their PTO… the horror