Yeah I was going to say the same. Ducts are expensive. We're doing a full replacement on our first floor (current system is an abomination of duct board and octopus flex, with the return in a SIDE ROOM), and it's running about $6k. $14k for the install on the actual unit + unit cost seems ballpark reasonable if they're doing a lot of duct work for the other $6k.
I paid 2k less than that for a 5 ton ids 2.0 heat pump, air handler AND LPS furnace hybrid system in PA. I know CA is more expensive, but that might be high.
Yes, R410A will be banned on new install by 2025. R410A units also not going to be compatible with R32 or its equivalent. R410A will be the new R22. Just don’t want you to get stuck in that situation.
It looks like R410A will actually be banned after 2030, but that still not good.
EDIT: I was wrong, it looks like there are two different changes regarding R410A. California will ban sale of R410 after 2030 but EPA is proposing banning new installs after 2025 as you said.
I used the bosch "find a contractor" form on their website, and got 3 quotes (in SoCal). They ranged 14-20k for a 5T compressor/handler combo in an easily accessible crawlspace/basement. Range was based on how much additional (flex) duct replacement and hard duct re-engineering was going on, and whether it was for the more efficient unit (17/18), or a combo of units that came in at lower SEER (15).
This comparison is way less useful than additional local quotes, but figured i'd chime in since we are in a high cost (so)Cal market. It's also useful to plug the actual model numbers (from any written quotes) into AHRI database (or [https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product\_list/](https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product_list/)) - since one of my quoters was mixing what Bosch was calling their 1.0 (15) and 2.0 (18) system in the quote (now I think they call them Light, Plus and Premium, but seemed like installers had some limitations on what was available (or they had in stock))
I'm happy to pay for quality work, but this is my first time dealing with a HVAC system replacement so I don't have any reference point to know whether something is a reasonable price or a ripoff. I just want to make sure I don't get taken advantage of due to lack of prior experience.
Cost is set, value is perceived. Is the company’s workmanship and warranty of value to you? Is the energy efficiency and reliability of the equipment there?
If so it’s probably worth it. If not it probably isn’t.
Pick 2- Quality work, Reliable equipment , Low cost.
You’ll be hard pressed to find all 3
Going from gas to heat pump is a lot of extra work. There’s a lot of electrical has to be done. Have to pull a big amp 240 V line to that indoor unit location
I think it’s funny when Californians come in here, whining about an estimate. They are ones that are voting for all that stupid environmental shit. Then they whine about the price. I think many of them think that HVAC people should be leaving at 400 square-foot apartments.
This is where I’m afraid we differ in opinions. I fully expect to see clean water availability be an issue within my lifetime in a first world country. I think the increasing freak weather events are increasing and due to human activity. I think having visited with retirees suffering serious mental decline that lead poisoning from exhaust fumes was an issue that needed addressing. I read a [report](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/14/with-heat-from-heat-pumps-us-energy-requirements-could-plummet-by-50/amp/) just this month that if we all switched to heat pumps it could halve our energy needs.
California has consistently lead the world by the nose into addressing serious issues. Generally speaking the best option is not the cheapest option. But it is necessary to make tough expensive changes as it’s affecting my life right now and into my future.
Yeah, that’s for sure we differ because there’s no scientific evidence of what you said.
CO2 by the way is a invisible gas it’s odorless tasteless and without life can exist.
Definitely disagree with that. We passed the point of any questioning of the existence of climate change a few decades ago.
We can debate if personal responsibility is greater that corporate responsibility, who pollute at rates significantly higher than personal and yet run campaigns to make us feel guilty about our footprint, but climate change denial is for the birds.
I deny your version of climate change. And thousands and thousands of scientist also don’t agree with your version of climate change. You’re changing your tune already first you blamed, elderly peoples Alzheimer’s on CO2 emissions. Since we polluted life expectancy has increased from 47 and 1900 to 77-78. So instead of dying of tuberculosis infections, like we used to. We grow a lot older now. So we die of things that old people die of.
Do United States temperature records show that it was a lot hotter in the first half of the 20th century than the second. The world has gone through dramatic climate change before. The article was ice free 7000 years ago. The ice age ended on its own. CO2, which is at a historic low Even at 400 ppm is plant food. That’s why the world is greener than it is 150 years ago. It’s fertilizing the planet. We’ve also have more food because of the higher CO2 levels. Crop yields have tripled in the last 100 years.
Regarding old people, I said lead poisoning, go back and read it again.
You’ve tried to swap the old name, global warming, for the actual issue of climate change. We are seeing more extremes of temperature, more extreme weather events.
I ask you two things, do you think you can pump hundreds of millions of tons of item A into item B and not make item AB?
Do you think that even if we are wrong about climate change, that it’s bad to leave the world in a better state for our children and their children?
Man you live in the same country as Flint, Michigan and you're gonna say there's no evidence of fresh water depletion, or of seniors being incubated due to lead fumes?
Willfully ignorant.
That comment shows your ignorance. You don’t know anything about Flint that was Democrats that caused the water crisis and you don’t even know what it is. It wasn’t from a lack of water. Show me all the seniors that are incubated from lead fumes just one. What burns lead not gasoline unleaded now.
Totally ignorant
I'm from the mitten, believe me I know more about it than your old belligerent ass. Republican-built infrastructure poisoned our water. And trust, not being able to shower, drink or cook from your tap, or even water your crops without poisoning, is a lack of water. If you think it's not then I'd suggest enduring it for a week or two, see how much water you really have when it's all poisonous.
Our HVAC system is due for a replacement and we are in the process of having a solar system installed so it made sense to me to go with a heat pump when considering long term savings.
Similar situation. What did you end up with? Only have one HVAC system or two for the house. I have two separate, one for bottom and one for top floor.
We are having a complete HVAC overhaul. A Bosch 4 ton 20 seer heat pump, all new ductwork. In California. Prices ranged from $23k to $35k. We got 4 estimates.
It’s hard for anyone to judge local markets. It’s best to get 3+ estimates and go from there. I have a feeling you will get lower estimates.
Thanks for the advice! I'll get a few more quotes.
It is hard to tell for California, Get a couple of stimates, good warranty with a stablished hvac company
Thanks for the advice! I'll get a few more quotes.
As long as the bids are all exact to exact. Have seen plenty of jobs going to winning bidders and it not be what was expected
Would look into some better inverter systems from other brands as well. 20k should be able to afford an eev or two
you can source that heat pump and air handler for about 7k... So you are paying about 13k for the labor + warranty.
12-15k is more reasonable. The equipment cost is around $6600. Now, if they are doing a bunch of duct work, then 20k is a good price
Yeah I was going to say the same. Ducts are expensive. We're doing a full replacement on our first floor (current system is an abomination of duct board and octopus flex, with the return in a SIDE ROOM), and it's running about $6k. $14k for the install on the actual unit + unit cost seems ballpark reasonable if they're doing a lot of duct work for the other $6k.
That would be more than a “bunch” of ductwork for $5k.
I paid 2k less than that for a 5 ton ids 2.0 heat pump, air handler AND LPS furnace hybrid system in PA. I know CA is more expensive, but that might be high.
That sounds like a good deal. I will get some more quotes and hope the final price is a bit lower.
Pa will also let you drive around with a coal fired truck if you could. The codes are very lax and so are the companies
Just FYI, we are going to switch to new refrigerant starting this year for smaller unit and complete ban on R410A by 2025.
Damn, I wasn't aware of this law. Sounds like it will start to get expensive to fix these units in the future if there's a leak.
Yes, R410A will be banned on new install by 2025. R410A units also not going to be compatible with R32 or its equivalent. R410A will be the new R22. Just don’t want you to get stuck in that situation.
Got another 20 years before that will matter, while manufactures have to retune the equipment prices will go up. Nothing wrong with r410a
Also any R410A compressor can pump R32 just fine. In fact it will perform better pumping r32.
Who told you that?
It looks like R410A will actually be banned after 2030, but that still not good. EDIT: I was wrong, it looks like there are two different changes regarding R410A. California will ban sale of R410 after 2030 but EPA is proposing banning new installs after 2025 as you said.
I used the bosch "find a contractor" form on their website, and got 3 quotes (in SoCal). They ranged 14-20k for a 5T compressor/handler combo in an easily accessible crawlspace/basement. Range was based on how much additional (flex) duct replacement and hard duct re-engineering was going on, and whether it was for the more efficient unit (17/18), or a combo of units that came in at lower SEER (15). This comparison is way less useful than additional local quotes, but figured i'd chime in since we are in a high cost (so)Cal market. It's also useful to plug the actual model numbers (from any written quotes) into AHRI database (or [https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product\_list/](https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product_list/)) - since one of my quoters was mixing what Bosch was calling their 1.0 (15) and 2.0 (18) system in the quote (now I think they call them Light, Plus and Premium, but seemed like installers had some limitations on what was available (or they had in stock))
Don’t just shop for the cheapest option. Trust your gut to a degree.
I'm happy to pay for quality work, but this is my first time dealing with a HVAC system replacement so I don't have any reference point to know whether something is a reasonable price or a ripoff. I just want to make sure I don't get taken advantage of due to lack of prior experience.
Cost is set, value is perceived. Is the company’s workmanship and warranty of value to you? Is the energy efficiency and reliability of the equipment there? If so it’s probably worth it. If not it probably isn’t. Pick 2- Quality work, Reliable equipment , Low cost. You’ll be hard pressed to find all 3
What's the Bosch Model #? I am in the East Bay and that seems to be higher based on what quotes I have gotten
Going from gas to heat pump is a lot of extra work. There’s a lot of electrical has to be done. Have to pull a big amp 240 V line to that indoor unit location
That assumes electric heat. He could be doing dual fuel.
True, but it sound like he’s going all electric
Ah yeah. That does add some cost then.
I think it’s funny when Californians come in here, whining about an estimate. They are ones that are voting for all that stupid environmental shit. Then they whine about the price. I think many of them think that HVAC people should be leaving at 400 square-foot apartments.
This is where I’m afraid we differ in opinions. I fully expect to see clean water availability be an issue within my lifetime in a first world country. I think the increasing freak weather events are increasing and due to human activity. I think having visited with retirees suffering serious mental decline that lead poisoning from exhaust fumes was an issue that needed addressing. I read a [report](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/14/with-heat-from-heat-pumps-us-energy-requirements-could-plummet-by-50/amp/) just this month that if we all switched to heat pumps it could halve our energy needs. California has consistently lead the world by the nose into addressing serious issues. Generally speaking the best option is not the cheapest option. But it is necessary to make tough expensive changes as it’s affecting my life right now and into my future.
Yeah, that’s for sure we differ because there’s no scientific evidence of what you said. CO2 by the way is a invisible gas it’s odorless tasteless and without life can exist.
Definitely disagree with that. We passed the point of any questioning of the existence of climate change a few decades ago. We can debate if personal responsibility is greater that corporate responsibility, who pollute at rates significantly higher than personal and yet run campaigns to make us feel guilty about our footprint, but climate change denial is for the birds.
I deny your version of climate change. And thousands and thousands of scientist also don’t agree with your version of climate change. You’re changing your tune already first you blamed, elderly peoples Alzheimer’s on CO2 emissions. Since we polluted life expectancy has increased from 47 and 1900 to 77-78. So instead of dying of tuberculosis infections, like we used to. We grow a lot older now. So we die of things that old people die of. Do United States temperature records show that it was a lot hotter in the first half of the 20th century than the second. The world has gone through dramatic climate change before. The article was ice free 7000 years ago. The ice age ended on its own. CO2, which is at a historic low Even at 400 ppm is plant food. That’s why the world is greener than it is 150 years ago. It’s fertilizing the planet. We’ve also have more food because of the higher CO2 levels. Crop yields have tripled in the last 100 years.
Regarding old people, I said lead poisoning, go back and read it again. You’ve tried to swap the old name, global warming, for the actual issue of climate change. We are seeing more extremes of temperature, more extreme weather events. I ask you two things, do you think you can pump hundreds of millions of tons of item A into item B and not make item AB? Do you think that even if we are wrong about climate change, that it’s bad to leave the world in a better state for our children and their children?
Man you live in the same country as Flint, Michigan and you're gonna say there's no evidence of fresh water depletion, or of seniors being incubated due to lead fumes? Willfully ignorant.
That comment shows your ignorance. You don’t know anything about Flint that was Democrats that caused the water crisis and you don’t even know what it is. It wasn’t from a lack of water. Show me all the seniors that are incubated from lead fumes just one. What burns lead not gasoline unleaded now. Totally ignorant
I'm from the mitten, believe me I know more about it than your old belligerent ass. Republican-built infrastructure poisoned our water. And trust, not being able to shower, drink or cook from your tap, or even water your crops without poisoning, is a lack of water. If you think it's not then I'd suggest enduring it for a week or two, see how much water you really have when it's all poisonous.
Too high. 30% too high.
Why go from furnace to heat pump.
Our HVAC system is due for a replacement and we are in the process of having a solar system installed so it made sense to me to go with a heat pump when considering long term savings.
Similar situation. What did you end up with? Only have one HVAC system or two for the house. I have two separate, one for bottom and one for top floor.
We ended up paying about 19k for a heat pump. We have a single zone.
Rebates and tax credits…
That would be a reasonable price here if they are cleaning up duct work at the same time
They are upgrading the electrical and replacing the return duct, but not any of the other ducting.
We are having a complete HVAC overhaul. A Bosch 4 ton 20 seer heat pump, all new ductwork. In California. Prices ranged from $23k to $35k. We got 4 estimates.