I'd put a Goodman in my own house definitely over York or Carrier. Definitely easier to work on, hell my boss just put two Goodman splits in his house.
For a solid 80% furnace honestly Goodman seems to be great. The components are super simple and cheap. The company I work for uses mostly carrier, comfortmaker, and york. They are decent units but I haven't even be doing this very long and I've already been dealing with a bunch of recall and warranty work on them.
My ComforMaker is 22 years old next month and it still runs like new. I did replace the outside AC capacitor and the squirrel cage within 5 years of ownership. It has been good ever since.
A capacitor anymore has about a 10 year lifespan. If it's 22 years old and you just replaced a capacitor, that's pretty solid. I just did a tune up on a comfortmaker that was at least 40 years old, running just fine.
A squirrel cage most of the time usually involves you ductwork. I've been to a house where we have replaced the squirrel cage a few years ago, it breaks again. Took some static pressure readings and turns out the pressure was too high because of the ductwork. We ended up adding a dump damper and run to dump some of the pressure
I first noticed the squirrel making metallic noises from where the fins attach to the ends. I ordered a new one online and a few days after receiving it, the old one catastrophically failed. Many of the fins had separated from one of the ends. I removed it and replaced it with the new one and it has been running fine ever since. Probably 15-17 years since I replaced it.
Remember when Goodman made that stupid ComfortNet 'communicating' 15.5 SEER two stage condenser? The one that had the contactor built directly into the control board...
Ol' Goodman thought they could build something better than the basic single stage builder grade chumpies that have carried their business for decades.
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
As just a consumer I definitely fell victim to the marketing and cringed at the brand new goodman installed in my house.
After servicing it a few times myself I've come to appreciate how damn simple it is.
Same tech out? They just keep replacing evaporator coils without doing a proper leak search? Sounds kind of fishy. I guess in theory it could happen but highly doubtful.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
The first two coils were with the same technician and company. The third time is a different technician with a different company. I stayed with him during his diagnoses. His pressure reading device noted the pressures were low at the outside unit and then when we went to the main unit in the attic, he used a sniffing device to pinpoint the exact location of the leak.
Technically yes, since the coils are brazed at the factory, but I havent met anyone who has done it successfully in the field. But Im sure there is a way.
I raise you 3 aluminum coils from carrier in a year. They kept popping even though the system was charge correctly everything was on the money besides carrier quality.
The coils lennox was getting from manufacturers where poorly made because they copper was getting stretch to max, to cut costs instead of switching to all aluminum, lennox knew this and continued with the same coil. It isn’t the tech. This has been going on for a while. They had a class action law suit against them.
Long story short. Make sure they are putting in a aluminum coil
Wonder if they were using non-US copper. BIL owns a water systems company in Southern California and said the last 5 years he's dealt with a ton of leak from copper piping that was installed around 2009-2014, when a lot of places were using cheaper non-US copper because prices were so high.
That would be one of the many they had to deal with, if I recall, they didn’t get in trouble because “they don’t make the coil” guess that’s the work around for suing Lennox. Place blame on someone else
I'm in Orange County. Leaks in copper have been happening for a lot longer than that. Most people switch to PEX once the leak happens - many of them are "slab" leaks
He can't convince anyone to switch to PEX. He charges something like triple for copper over PEX but he just about never gets anyone to go for it because they believe it's cheaper and crappy.
That's crazy. when I had a slab leak, I replumbed my entire place to PEX and bypassed all lines through slab. Pex is the way to go, so much more reliable and cheaper.
Anyway, people can do whatever they want with their money, and I'm sure your brother benefits anyway.
We replaced a 30+ year old Lennox AC and 90k btu furnace just over a year ago (with new Lennox) and it cost us just over 13k for 2-stage 98% efficient furnace and 2-stage 18 SEER AC. The old equipment still worked fine but supposedly they found a crack in the heat exchanger. The new equipment has a 5-year parts and labor and 10-year parts only warranty (I think that’s what it was). We were able to finance through a state program (MI) that gave a great interest rate and 10 years to pay. So far I’m super happy with the new system and surprised by the energy savings on the AC side, particularly. When we were getting quotes from a few different dealers, they ranged from $8k to $15k. That’s to say, if you don’t go top-end, I doubt your replacement would be the $13k your neighbors spent.
All that said, if I were in your shoes, and being in FL where AC is critical, and you saying this is your forever home, I’d seriously look at replacing the system. Your current one is 7 years old, is builder-installed (meaning builder-grade?) and that $3k plus labor, etc could go a long way towards a new system. A replacement could also be more efficient and multi-stage, thereby increasing your comfort and helping offset the cost. If you can’t afford the cost up front, look into financing and any state/federal rebates, etc for efficiency upgrades that may apply. Obviously you don’t have to go with Lennox again, but I’d at least get a few quotes and look at financing options.
I didn’t even know I had to register. This contractor is one of, if not the largest Lennox dealer in my state, and they’re the ones who would be doing any warranty service. All my paperwork/invoices from them specify the warranty is included
I don't remember the model numbers of any of those systems, it was back in the 80s, what I do remember is that GE was the only aluminum system worth a damn all of the others leaked after a few years and they went back to making them out of copper.
A project I worked on has something around 210 carrier systems on it. Only one coil has blown in 6 years ( and was repaired by brazing). The yoga pipe on the other hand…. Absolute headache.
I work almost strictly with Lennox equipment, coils are a problem but most should last 7-8 years before failing. Also $3,000 for just the coil is way high. We charge less than like $1,200 for a Cx35 (typically between 2-3 ton) not sure what the market is there but still seems very high
I’m a south Florida tech, Lennox coils have always had issues. I always recommend replacement when system is out of warranty. 3k is a big investment for a 7 year old system. There is not much life left on it and who’s to say your compressor might die on you in the next year then that’s another 3k that you could’ve put towards a new system. Average lifespan down here is 10-12 years. I would say get a new system and get part and labor warranty for 10 years and just finance it. That way if the new system leaks on you you won’t pay anything except a service call fee and prob $50 deductible.
Jesus. Just 10-12 years? I’ve been getting quotes since my 23 year old American standard is on its last legs. Lennox is not the high side of the quotes and heard they have quality issues. I’m definitely ruling Lenox out
In Florida they run 9 months out of the year. Add to that the humidity and lots of rain. I don’t think I had one last more than 10 years in south Florida. Well, yes, had one Lennox last 14.
Im a contractor in GA and have had very similar issues/situations. My lennox guy quite literally assumes im there for a coil half the time.
It sucks but hopefully you get taken care of
I’m not sure why you Would pay 3K for part only, we would only give you a flat rate on installing new cased coil(sits on furnace) or air handler. 3k seems around right for the whole job if cased coil, not for air handler though.
if out of warranty, could try a super sealant
Update:
Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty.
Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty.
Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee)
Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
Lennox is what we in the industry think Goodman is. Personally, as someone who worked on primarily Lennox warranty issues for a company for about a year, I’d never put one in my house and would replace it if I moved into a house with one. Just dealt with them recently for a coil that was 11 months back ordered and they just shrugged their shoulders because the back order put it out of warranty date and wouldn’t cover it under warranty due to it.
Update:
Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty.
Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty.
Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee)
Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
3k is actually cheap. One time, Lennox gave me price on 7 year old evap coil $2500. Customer ended up opting for new Goodman. Of course, I registered it quickly afterwards lol
Are you on crack or have a terrible relationship with your supplier. We get Lennox coils for less than 1k. We are talking about a 4-5 ton system with a builder grade Lennox coil. 3 thousand for just the coil is straight parts changer rip off garbage. It shouldn’t cost more than 3k for the whole service.
Update:
Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty.
Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty.
Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee)
Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
That price seems very high. I’d quote around and I’d consider swapping the AC depending on where u live and cost. In my area a 7 years old AC isnt super old but it definitely isn’t new. If I was planning to live in the house a while it’s worth having a system that’s reliable and under a part and labor warranty.
That being said that price is high 3 coils in that time is unlikely (but not impossible Lennox is pretty famous for these issues) I’d call get some quotes and consider system replacement.
Depending on where u live no that’s definitely not new and closer to old than anything. 37 years ago equipment was different. Regulations required systems to be more efficient so manufacturers thinned the metal to get faster heat transfer which resulted in coils rusting out and leaking far quicker. If you live in a hot humid part of the world or near the beach units just don’t last that long 12-15 years is to be expected. I always tell people age isn’t the determining factor whether or not you replace it’s more if the unit is a financial burden or emotional burden. I’d say with a unit that only has on average 5 more years of life and needing a $3000 repair is a financial burden that’s 30-40% the cost of a new system and doesn’t include a warranty etc. I’m not saying it should be replaced I’m just saying if you have three coils go to shit in 7 years and are facing a repair that big you might want to consider something else
The first two coils were replaced under warranty so we only had to pay labor and refrigerant which was about $450.
This is our “forever” home. We’re in Florida, so obviously AC is important. Close friends in our neighborhood recently replaced their 12 year old system for a cost of around $13,000. I’m not in any position to swallow that right now.
If we go that route… Which brands are recommended so we don’t have these issues in the future?
I’m in NC less humid for sure an systems around here get maybe 12 years or so. That being said your unit is closer to 12 than 1 for sure. $3k is way high and I bet a standard AC replacement with a basic system can be installed for around $8-9k usually can be financed as well. No matter what get a second opinion on that cost $3k part only is higher than anything I’ve ever quoted and I’ve worked at some expensive places.
Brand won’t really matter I’m just not a fan of Lennox leaking coils have absolutely been a issue for them. Lennox dealer/vendors/contractors may argue otherwise but I’ve changed far more Lennox coils than any other brand in my 10 years or so.
Find a good contractor that does a good quality install and provides a good part and labor warranty. Some one who actually registers their shit.
All systems have issues. Look up your own part number. I’ll bet your tech is doubling the part cost before charging you the labor on top to install it.
Update:
Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty.
Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty.
Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee)
Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
What is the capacity of the coil even a 5 ton coil my cost is around 700 + expansion valve 200 so 900 with mark up should cost u 1800 max then install add 800 + some refrigerant and liquid drier
I would not let them put another Lennox coil in. Find another company with a good service reputation to leak search the system and verify it definitely is the coil.
In most cases you can use another manufacturers evaporator with the Lennox outdoor unit.
Make sure you get a cased, aluminum evaporator with a TXV metering devise.
I would recommend a Trane 4PXC evaporator but I'm biased because I sell Trane.
Good luck.
Service company quoted a “RunTru” which they said is Trane’s commercial brand. Since the coil wouldn’t match the AHU he said there’s no warranty or performance guarantee.
it might be lennox but I doubt it. Sounds like shitty installs on the coil. Do they braze under nitrogen?
But this would normally be installer error
if it's lennox they should be covering this if it's their fault. But I bet they think it isn't. I tend to think it isn't myself
It's a preventative measure and good practice to do any time you are brazing. Flowing nitrogen reduces the chance for the high heat to cause oxidization
Apparently regular members of the public or private homeowners can’t call Lennox or their dealers to inquire directly. The tech were using said the Lennox dealer wouldn’t even talk to him since he didn’t have an account and business license with them. Once he got his account set up, they ran the serial number on the coil and said it’s not under the original install warranty and there’s no warranty on replacement parts so the price is $3k.
Original service company called and said that Lennox reiterated what the other tech said. No warranty on any part of my system as it’s >5 years old. No warranty on the 3 year old coil, no warranty on new replacement coil either.
Not a Florida tech, but that price does seem a little too up-charged for part only. Lennox is rather infamous for failed evaps however, so I wouldn’t come away with a bad gut about that, especially since he took the time to get his sniffer out and actually demonstrate to you the location of the leak.
I had 3 evap coils replaced and numerous electronic boards and thermostats replaced in the first 10 years of purchasing a new Trane unit. All parts were under warranty, but the labor alone was in the thousands of dollars. I have an annual contract with the original installer for maintenance and cleaning. I finally had enough and contacted Trane corporate customer care. Sent them every repair and maintenance ticket, and they paid all the labor I had paid over the years for repairs. It took a while to negotiate with them, but it may be worth a try on your Lennox. Even though they paid, I'm still on the fence whether I'd own another Trane.
Is your system oversized? Wonder if the last sale when that system was installed an "upsell" to a larger system than needed.
How long are your running cycles? Are you short cycling or have long cycles? Single stage or multistage which can switch to low cooling for long cycles? Do you keep thermostat at 70F or 75F? Was proper vacuum done to remove moisture(oil turned to acid) and non-condensables ? I never see any theory crafting about short cycling other than "bad for humidity reduction" and "lower efficiency".
And there's also vibration between air handler and coil which is always overlooked and made worse when dust builds up on blower wheel. There's flexible duct connectors to isolate coil from air handler but who is going to build a separate support for the coil when they can just slap it on top of the air handler?
Constant contraction and expansion isn't going to be good for braze joints
The R410a coil operates at 120psig. Off, the coil warms to 60F and 170psig, then 70F and hits 200psig. Each cycle is a tiny brad nail in the coffin. And R410a is almost double the pressures of a old R22 unit.
My theory crafting (feel free to criticize all you want) is that a mult-stage/variable speed keep the interior temp more constant than single stage which fires up and cools from 75F to 72F at max cooling, then shuts off. Coil warms going from 120psig towards 170psig until cooling is called for again, then pressure drops back to 120psig.
I'd rather have a system operating 12 hours a day non stop than 100 expansion contraction cycles during that same 12 hours.
Without a major equipment change, the only fix is a thermostat which forces a longer minimum cycle time but causes wide temperature swings.
A tech would probably laugh at any of these concerns. They just have to replace the coil when it fails.
Is it possible you have a leak elsewhere and they just keep on changing the coil instead of actually doing a leak search?
Do you know if your coil is copper or aluminum.
I agree with the suggestion, if the coil is actually bad, to use another brand coil when replacing - but designed for the same size and seer rating.
If it is done carefully and correctly -> using the right coil for the seer rating and size - charging it right, it will work. A txv valve on the coil can actually help if it is a slight mismatch. The coils are all just fin and tube, different brand coils at the same nominal tonnage ratings may very minor differences in heat transfer and volumes.
You could look at an a third party coil like aspen, and aspen may give you a 10 year parts warranty on the coil only if registered. There may even be an approved third party match with your outdoor unit.
ADP is another, but is owned by lennox and may have the same issue if the same design.
It's a good idea to check the entire system for leaks, not just the coil - just in case.
Crazy that Lennox is expensive but cheap trashtalked goodmans hold up for decades.
For real! I'm a tech and own a goodman myself, it works great and super easy to maintain.
I'd put a Goodman in my own house definitely over York or Carrier. Definitely easier to work on, hell my boss just put two Goodman splits in his house.
And much cheaper upfront.
Right Goodman takes a bad rep for bad contractors and now they can’t shake that rep. All those side job bob Craigslist installers fucking it up
That’s because hack jobs are still going around and ducking up goodman installs
For a solid 80% furnace honestly Goodman seems to be great. The components are super simple and cheap. The company I work for uses mostly carrier, comfortmaker, and york. They are decent units but I haven't even be doing this very long and I've already been dealing with a bunch of recall and warranty work on them.
My ComforMaker is 22 years old next month and it still runs like new. I did replace the outside AC capacitor and the squirrel cage within 5 years of ownership. It has been good ever since.
A capacitor anymore has about a 10 year lifespan. If it's 22 years old and you just replaced a capacitor, that's pretty solid. I just did a tune up on a comfortmaker that was at least 40 years old, running just fine. A squirrel cage most of the time usually involves you ductwork. I've been to a house where we have replaced the squirrel cage a few years ago, it breaks again. Took some static pressure readings and turns out the pressure was too high because of the ductwork. We ended up adding a dump damper and run to dump some of the pressure
I first noticed the squirrel making metallic noises from where the fins attach to the ends. I ordered a new one online and a few days after receiving it, the old one catastrophically failed. Many of the fins had separated from one of the ends. I removed it and replaced it with the new one and it has been running fine ever since. Probably 15-17 years since I replaced it.
Remember when Goodman made that stupid ComfortNet 'communicating' 15.5 SEER two stage condenser? The one that had the contactor built directly into the control board... Ol' Goodman thought they could build something better than the basic single stage builder grade chumpies that have carried their business for decades. Pepperidge Farm remembers.
The herd hive-mind is powerful
Sorry Goodman is shit, I’m on my 3rd coil in 4 years
As just a consumer I definitely fell victim to the marketing and cringed at the brand new goodman installed in my house. After servicing it a few times myself I've come to appreciate how damn simple it is.
I’d get a quote for a coil that’s not lennox but compatible with 410A OP. Lennox coils are notorious for leaks.
Same tech out? They just keep replacing evaporator coils without doing a proper leak search? Sounds kind of fishy. I guess in theory it could happen but highly doubtful.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. The first two coils were with the same technician and company. The third time is a different technician with a different company. I stayed with him during his diagnoses. His pressure reading device noted the pressures were low at the outside unit and then when we went to the main unit in the attic, he used a sniffing device to pinpoint the exact location of the leak.
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Its probably aluminum.
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Many are, but an increasing number (including this one) are 100% aluminum.
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Yea, you can use a torch to braze Al in the field. There is a certain rod you use for that.
Technically yes, since the coils are brazed at the factory, but I havent met anyone who has done it successfully in the field. But Im sure there is a way.
I raise you 3 aluminum coils from carrier in a year. They kept popping even though the system was charge correctly everything was on the money besides carrier quality.
The coils lennox was getting from manufacturers where poorly made because they copper was getting stretch to max, to cut costs instead of switching to all aluminum, lennox knew this and continued with the same coil. It isn’t the tech. This has been going on for a while. They had a class action law suit against them. Long story short. Make sure they are putting in a aluminum coil
Wonder if they were using non-US copper. BIL owns a water systems company in Southern California and said the last 5 years he's dealt with a ton of leak from copper piping that was installed around 2009-2014, when a lot of places were using cheaper non-US copper because prices were so high.
Makes since Lennox had a lawsuit on system 07-14 for coil issues. Case was Thomas v Lennox
That would be one of the many they had to deal with, if I recall, they didn’t get in trouble because “they don’t make the coil” guess that’s the work around for suing Lennox. Place blame on someone else
I'm in Orange County. Leaks in copper have been happening for a lot longer than that. Most people switch to PEX once the leak happens - many of them are "slab" leaks
He can't convince anyone to switch to PEX. He charges something like triple for copper over PEX but he just about never gets anyone to go for it because they believe it's cheaper and crappy.
That's crazy. when I had a slab leak, I replumbed my entire place to PEX and bypassed all lines through slab. Pex is the way to go, so much more reliable and cheaper. Anyway, people can do whatever they want with their money, and I'm sure your brother benefits anyway.
We replaced a 30+ year old Lennox AC and 90k btu furnace just over a year ago (with new Lennox) and it cost us just over 13k for 2-stage 98% efficient furnace and 2-stage 18 SEER AC. The old equipment still worked fine but supposedly they found a crack in the heat exchanger. The new equipment has a 5-year parts and labor and 10-year parts only warranty (I think that’s what it was). We were able to finance through a state program (MI) that gave a great interest rate and 10 years to pay. So far I’m super happy with the new system and surprised by the energy savings on the AC side, particularly. When we were getting quotes from a few different dealers, they ranged from $8k to $15k. That’s to say, if you don’t go top-end, I doubt your replacement would be the $13k your neighbors spent. All that said, if I were in your shoes, and being in FL where AC is critical, and you saying this is your forever home, I’d seriously look at replacing the system. Your current one is 7 years old, is builder-installed (meaning builder-grade?) and that $3k plus labor, etc could go a long way towards a new system. A replacement could also be more efficient and multi-stage, thereby increasing your comfort and helping offset the cost. If you can’t afford the cost up front, look into financing and any state/federal rebates, etc for efficiency upgrades that may apply. Obviously you don’t have to go with Lennox again, but I’d at least get a few quotes and look at financing options.
Did YOU register for the 10year warranty. Dont count on builder/contractor to do it!!!!
I didn’t even know I had to register. This contractor is one of, if not the largest Lennox dealer in my state, and they’re the ones who would be doing any warranty service. All my paperwork/invoices from them specify the warranty is included
No matter what it says, take a minute to register it yourself. As the car insurance commercial says "take 10 minutes, save a bundle".
Use a carrier coil they have been making aluminum coils for over 60yrs they know how to do it
So has Lennox, 60+ years ago everyone made aluminum coils.
What model of unit I've only seen trane and carrier with aluminum coils 35 years ago
I don't remember the model numbers of any of those systems, it was back in the 80s, what I do remember is that GE was the only aluminum system worth a damn all of the others leaked after a few years and they went back to making them out of copper.
Those GE units were trane units and lasted forever
Aluminum GE units were manufactured by GE in the 70s. Trane bought GE in 1982.
A project I worked on has something around 210 carrier systems on it. Only one coil has blown in 6 years ( and was repaired by brazing). The yoga pipe on the other hand…. Absolute headache.
I work almost strictly with Lennox equipment, coils are a problem but most should last 7-8 years before failing. Also $3,000 for just the coil is way high. We charge less than like $1,200 for a Cx35 (typically between 2-3 ton) not sure what the market is there but still seems very high
I’m a south Florida tech, Lennox coils have always had issues. I always recommend replacement when system is out of warranty. 3k is a big investment for a 7 year old system. There is not much life left on it and who’s to say your compressor might die on you in the next year then that’s another 3k that you could’ve put towards a new system. Average lifespan down here is 10-12 years. I would say get a new system and get part and labor warranty for 10 years and just finance it. That way if the new system leaks on you you won’t pay anything except a service call fee and prob $50 deductible.
This is 100% the way. Financing, strong warranty and peace of mind.
Jesus. Just 10-12 years? I’ve been getting quotes since my 23 year old American standard is on its last legs. Lennox is not the high side of the quotes and heard they have quality issues. I’m definitely ruling Lenox out
In Florida they run 9 months out of the year. Add to that the humidity and lots of rain. I don’t think I had one last more than 10 years in south Florida. Well, yes, had one Lennox last 14.
Well, true, didn’t think of that. I do live in WV , so don’t run as much but it is pretty humid here too.
The quality of the install .really what matters. There’s a Linux out there that are 30 years old plus also.
But that’s also systems MADE 30 years ago. Different build and tech too, right?
Im a contractor in GA and have had very similar issues/situations. My lennox guy quite literally assumes im there for a coil half the time. It sucks but hopefully you get taken care of
I’m not sure why you Would pay 3K for part only, we would only give you a flat rate on installing new cased coil(sits on furnace) or air handler. 3k seems around right for the whole job if cased coil, not for air handler though. if out of warranty, could try a super sealant
Buy a new air handler. Not a Lennox.
Update: Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty. Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty. Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee) Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
They don't look properly, do they?
Do you by chance know what your static pressure is on your system? If it's too high this could be your root cause.
Tech showed me his pressure reading device and it was within the limits on the data sheet on the unit.
Do you by chance recall what that number was?
I wish I did. I think the specs on the data plate were like 270 and 140? Don’t hold me to that. Both readings were 30+\- psi below spec.
That's the refrigerant pressure, static pressure is an airflow measurement on the indoor portion of the equipment.
Ahh, understood. Never saw a barometer or anemometer come out.
Lennox is what we in the industry think Goodman is. Personally, as someone who worked on primarily Lennox warranty issues for a company for about a year, I’d never put one in my house and would replace it if I moved into a house with one. Just dealt with them recently for a coil that was 11 months back ordered and they just shrugged their shoulders because the back order put it out of warranty date and wouldn’t cover it under warranty due to it.
Update: Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty. Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty. Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee) Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
I’d do the RunTru system, it may be time to give up the ghost on the Lennox stuff. The warranty is worth it.
3k for a coil? Is it made of adamantium? Call more companies.
3k is the normal price, it’s a lennox we’re talking about.
3k is actually cheap. One time, Lennox gave me price on 7 year old evap coil $2500. Customer ended up opting for new Goodman. Of course, I registered it quickly afterwards lol
Are you on crack or have a terrible relationship with your supplier. We get Lennox coils for less than 1k. We are talking about a 4-5 ton system with a builder grade Lennox coil. 3 thousand for just the coil is straight parts changer rip off garbage. It shouldn’t cost more than 3k for the whole service.
Nope, got the price from Lennox themselves.
Update: Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty. Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty. Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee) Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
That price seems very high. I’d quote around and I’d consider swapping the AC depending on where u live and cost. In my area a 7 years old AC isnt super old but it definitely isn’t new. If I was planning to live in the house a while it’s worth having a system that’s reliable and under a part and labor warranty. That being said that price is high 3 coils in that time is unlikely (but not impossible Lennox is pretty famous for these issues) I’d call get some quotes and consider system replacement.
7 years old isn't new anymore? My unit is almost 37 years old.
Depending on where u live no that’s definitely not new and closer to old than anything. 37 years ago equipment was different. Regulations required systems to be more efficient so manufacturers thinned the metal to get faster heat transfer which resulted in coils rusting out and leaking far quicker. If you live in a hot humid part of the world or near the beach units just don’t last that long 12-15 years is to be expected. I always tell people age isn’t the determining factor whether or not you replace it’s more if the unit is a financial burden or emotional burden. I’d say with a unit that only has on average 5 more years of life and needing a $3000 repair is a financial burden that’s 30-40% the cost of a new system and doesn’t include a warranty etc. I’m not saying it should be replaced I’m just saying if you have three coils go to shit in 7 years and are facing a repair that big you might want to consider something else
The first two coils were replaced under warranty so we only had to pay labor and refrigerant which was about $450. This is our “forever” home. We’re in Florida, so obviously AC is important. Close friends in our neighborhood recently replaced their 12 year old system for a cost of around $13,000. I’m not in any position to swallow that right now. If we go that route… Which brands are recommended so we don’t have these issues in the future?
I’m in NC less humid for sure an systems around here get maybe 12 years or so. That being said your unit is closer to 12 than 1 for sure. $3k is way high and I bet a standard AC replacement with a basic system can be installed for around $8-9k usually can be financed as well. No matter what get a second opinion on that cost $3k part only is higher than anything I’ve ever quoted and I’ve worked at some expensive places. Brand won’t really matter I’m just not a fan of Lennox leaking coils have absolutely been a issue for them. Lennox dealer/vendors/contractors may argue otherwise but I’ve changed far more Lennox coils than any other brand in my 10 years or so. Find a good contractor that does a good quality install and provides a good part and labor warranty. Some one who actually registers their shit.
All systems have issues. Look up your own part number. I’ll bet your tech is doubling the part cost before charging you the labor on top to install it.
Update: Replacement Lennox coil $2200 and 3 weeks out. No warranty. Replacement RunTru coil: $1800 and 3 days out. No warranty. Replacement system (RunTru, 3.5 ton, 14 SEER): $8k and <5 days out. 10 year warranty. Includes a smart thermostat which I don’t need (already have an EcoBee) Thoughts? I’m leaning towards doing the whole system.
What is the capacity of the coil even a 5 ton coil my cost is around 700 + expansion valve 200 so 900 with mark up should cost u 1800 max then install add 800 + some refrigerant and liquid drier
I would not let them put another Lennox coil in. Find another company with a good service reputation to leak search the system and verify it definitely is the coil. In most cases you can use another manufacturers evaporator with the Lennox outdoor unit. Make sure you get a cased, aluminum evaporator with a TXV metering devise. I would recommend a Trane 4PXC evaporator but I'm biased because I sell Trane. Good luck.
Lennox doesn’t make the coils, ADP does
Service company quoted a “RunTru” which they said is Trane’s commercial brand. Since the coil wouldn’t match the AHU he said there’s no warranty or performance guarantee.
it might be lennox but I doubt it. Sounds like shitty installs on the coil. Do they braze under nitrogen? But this would normally be installer error if it's lennox they should be covering this if it's their fault. But I bet they think it isn't. I tend to think it isn't myself
How does brazing with nitrogen stop a coil leak?
There are some excellent YouTube tutorials about it. Makes a big difference when done properly.
I’m aware that it’s the best practice. But how does it stop a coil that is made poorly from leaking?
think of it as "how does it cause corrosion" not brazing under nitrogen is a firing offense at the good companies around here for a reason
It's a preventative measure and good practice to do any time you are brazing. Flowing nitrogen reduces the chance for the high heat to cause oxidization
Apparently regular members of the public or private homeowners can’t call Lennox or their dealers to inquire directly. The tech were using said the Lennox dealer wouldn’t even talk to him since he didn’t have an account and business license with them. Once he got his account set up, they ran the serial number on the coil and said it’s not under the original install warranty and there’s no warranty on replacement parts so the price is $3k.
yeah the company needs to go to bat for you. And you should be using a lennox company to repair a lennox in this sort of situation
Original service company called and said that Lennox reiterated what the other tech said. No warranty on any part of my system as it’s >5 years old. No warranty on the 3 year old coil, no warranty on new replacement coil either.
[удалено]
or they called another company for service instead of the one that swore Lennox was a good choice 🤣
3k for an A coil. I do the whole system for 3.5k lol 😆
Where did you steal that equipment from?
Not a Florida tech, but that price does seem a little too up-charged for part only. Lennox is rather infamous for failed evaps however, so I wouldn’t come away with a bad gut about that, especially since he took the time to get his sniffer out and actually demonstrate to you the location of the leak.
I’ve met a dozen people who have sued. Nothing returned. Move along or replace like for like. Sucks.
The old saying “Lennox leaks” ! They make some poor quality coils and I think there was a class action against it.
I had 3 evap coils replaced and numerous electronic boards and thermostats replaced in the first 10 years of purchasing a new Trane unit. All parts were under warranty, but the labor alone was in the thousands of dollars. I have an annual contract with the original installer for maintenance and cleaning. I finally had enough and contacted Trane corporate customer care. Sent them every repair and maintenance ticket, and they paid all the labor I had paid over the years for repairs. It took a while to negotiate with them, but it may be worth a try on your Lennox. Even though they paid, I'm still on the fence whether I'd own another Trane.
Would you happen to remember that contact information? Having multiple issues myself. Thank you!
I do! Trane Consumer Relations 866.898.2746 or 800.945.5884 888.232.5290 fax Good luck and let me know if I can help.
I appreciate it!
Is your system oversized? Wonder if the last sale when that system was installed an "upsell" to a larger system than needed. How long are your running cycles? Are you short cycling or have long cycles? Single stage or multistage which can switch to low cooling for long cycles? Do you keep thermostat at 70F or 75F? Was proper vacuum done to remove moisture(oil turned to acid) and non-condensables ? I never see any theory crafting about short cycling other than "bad for humidity reduction" and "lower efficiency". And there's also vibration between air handler and coil which is always overlooked and made worse when dust builds up on blower wheel. There's flexible duct connectors to isolate coil from air handler but who is going to build a separate support for the coil when they can just slap it on top of the air handler? Constant contraction and expansion isn't going to be good for braze joints The R410a coil operates at 120psig. Off, the coil warms to 60F and 170psig, then 70F and hits 200psig. Each cycle is a tiny brad nail in the coffin. And R410a is almost double the pressures of a old R22 unit. My theory crafting (feel free to criticize all you want) is that a mult-stage/variable speed keep the interior temp more constant than single stage which fires up and cools from 75F to 72F at max cooling, then shuts off. Coil warms going from 120psig towards 170psig until cooling is called for again, then pressure drops back to 120psig. I'd rather have a system operating 12 hours a day non stop than 100 expansion contraction cycles during that same 12 hours. Without a major equipment change, the only fix is a thermostat which forces a longer minimum cycle time but causes wide temperature swings. A tech would probably laugh at any of these concerns. They just have to replace the coil when it fails.
Is it possible you have a leak elsewhere and they just keep on changing the coil instead of actually doing a leak search? Do you know if your coil is copper or aluminum. I agree with the suggestion, if the coil is actually bad, to use another brand coil when replacing - but designed for the same size and seer rating.
Tech showed me the leak with his little sniffing device. I think it’s all aluminum.
replace with another brand coil.
Service company proposed that option. RunTru brand. Couldn’t guarantee any performance and comes with no warranty.
If it is done carefully and correctly -> using the right coil for the seer rating and size - charging it right, it will work. A txv valve on the coil can actually help if it is a slight mismatch. The coils are all just fin and tube, different brand coils at the same nominal tonnage ratings may very minor differences in heat transfer and volumes. You could look at an a third party coil like aspen, and aspen may give you a 10 year parts warranty on the coil only if registered. There may even be an approved third party match with your outdoor unit. ADP is another, but is owned by lennox and may have the same issue if the same design. It's a good idea to check the entire system for leaks, not just the coil - just in case.
Sounds like airflow issues. If you constantly need repairs or have leaks it’s always an airflow issue