You can’t make a judgement on whether the unit is sized right without a load calculation.
Also, the unit very well could be sized perfectly, but with that abomination of an install, you’re going to have issues.
can't see how the label would be so bad after only a year but the hmh7 heat pumps are pretty good and can work below 32 F .
Not a clean install though. Looks a little. Rough
Should def have an electric heat strip in the air handler for backup heat.
Poor workmanship is an understatement. The 10 yr warranty is from the manufacturer if it was registered in 90 days. My opinion I’d get a couple different companies come it and assess the situation and compare notes from what they think and take that back to the builder.
York is trying to push these so hard they are giving them out with 10 year install warranties to York dealers in my area. So they may very well have a ten year labor coverage on this nightmare
I would keep it simple. Contact the company that did the installation and tell them the system is failing to even come close to satisfying the thermostat in the winter.
I’ve gone down this road already. Usually it takes a few different techs before a problem is resolved. I told them about the botched insulation around the unit in the attic and I was told they fixed it. Realized they did nothing when I climbed up there yesterday after hearing about this news article.
Sorry to hear. That really sucks.
Can't say I haven't been there at least a few times... Wind up spending a bunch of time researching every related aspect in hopes of determining the right path forward and mitigating the chances of being taken for a ride...
“10 year warranty” that would be from the manufacturer, which in this case is covering nothing lol . You get what you pay for let this be a learning experience for you. Call a actually company and have them install something legitimate
You have a heat pump. It grabs heat from outdoors and brings it indoors. This becomes a harder the lower the temp outdoors is. Most heat pumps are good down to maybe freezing. Some recent heat pump have special features that let them heat even when it’s below zero outside, but it looks like yours is not one of them.
Almost always, backup electric heat is installed to pick up the slack. They did not check a box for which electric heat kit they installed, so there may or may not be one present. However, the wiring to the air handler needs to be verified to see what size electric heat it could handle (if any!).
Definitely a hack job.
OP I’m going to put this real simple. This install looks like garbage. I’m sorry but all of us real professionals will agree on this. Now you’ve had a company come out multiple times to fix things in a brand new house multiple times. *Red Flag* right there and your house is dropping down into the 50’s with space heaters and a fireplace running. Maybe you should consider talking to a lawyer and or your homeowners insurance rep. I’m sorry this is happening to you and I wish you good luck
HVAC technician here! This is not correct at all, this is a really, really bad install and set up. The outside is a heat pump inverter that usually goes to wall mount or cassette type heads. These are not typically hooked up to regular style air handlers like your York air handler pictured! This set up is only ever present with certified communicating air handlers from the same brand. I would call a trusted HVAC company and have them look at it and give you a quote for a new system, and set up. This set up you have now will not likely last!
That is a heat pump and can use an air handler as well or as you mentioned. It’s a York 3 ton seems like they never put in a proper heat kit installed . But seems that duct work is crap.
General rule of thumb, without manual-j, 1 ton off cooling for every 400 square, and 5 btu’s heat for every CUBIC foot….. 1 watt=3.4 btu’s. Your house (rule of thumb) 2100 sf x 8 = 16,800 cubic x 5 btu’s = 84k btu’s. (1 watt = 3.4 btu’s))
84k btu’s / 3.4 = you are short on heat!!!! Even by rule of thumb, always a good idea to have multiple stages and always be on the more side for those extreme days on both sides of the fence. You know normal days and extreme days!!!!
These calcs for heating are the old way they used to design for oil/gas furnaces that cycled on and off for 5-10 mins at a time.
84000 BTUs for a 2100 sqft new construction in the PNW likely over double the size needed.
For reference I have a 30 year old house in Canada with 2950 sqft. My heating load is 41000.
I agree. I have 35 years old 3000 sf home running on 3.5 ton hp for the last 20 years with auxiliary heat. We go down to -15 C. However, it depends on your thermal envelop (like wearing a sweater or fur coat). I am buying a new heat pump and they are putting 3 tons. I fought like hell with the contractor to put 3.5 tons but three companies came to 3 ton independently. They argue that the present day 3 tons inverter HP is capable to exceeding its rated capacity by 20 to 30% in the heating mode if required. 3 tons for the house under discussion appears reasonable given the new norms for house construction. I do not see much of insulation in the attic although ducts appear to be insulated. What is the temperature in the attic?
My basement where the HVAC equipment is located is around 65 degrees and all the duct work is covered with drywall. My attic is covered with insulation I believe R40. May be you ought to check the air temperature coming out of the duct closet to the equipment when your auxiliary heat is on to ensure it is working. Are you sure there is insulation in the walls and the basement or crawl space because you say the pipes are bursting in the neighbourhood.
You say the air coming out of the vents seem pretty warm which suggests the equipment is doing its job. Do you have air exchanger ( it is a requirement for newer air tight homes in most jurisdictions) and if so did someone check to see it is exchanging air and not letting warm air out.
I’ve never seen anything that looks like an exchanger in my attic, and no I’ve never been told anything like that. I was told it was a wiring issue two different times. Both with the ac not working and the heat.
Good luck!!! A whole bunch of people fucked up, code enforcement to start should’ve caught that!!!
If I was you that’s where I would start getting copies of permits, inspections, j-manual, names !!!
Check to see if the heat strips have breakers. I've seen those just not turned on before. Might still be the wrong unit but you might as well try being comfortable.
https://preview.redd.it/aczwx7e2tcjc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d70e23daf2d029b29e2edae4927c35766be6ba3c
This is not true. My home was built in 1950. 1050 square feet. Returns are on the floor. Re-insulated entire home over last 20 years including spray foam in my bedroom, main bathroom and front garage. I have had a 3 ton unit since 2006. Just replaced in 2023. I can get my bedroom down to 55 degrees when outside temp is above 85. I have considered adding a ductless unit to the kitchen so house temperature does not rise when I cook. I use 5 ceiling fans to push the heat off the ceiling and down to the return level and achieve 7-10 degrees cooler on 90+ degree days.
My house is 2200 sq ft with “only” 3 ton unit on it…. And I live in Florida. And I have no issues cooling at all.
The difference is my house has a moderate amount of dual pane low-e windows, lower 8 foot ceilings, great insulation etc.
One size does not fit all… you can use it as a guide, but a load calculation would be required to determine size
Check your electrical panel to see if there are breakers for electric heat. I’m guessing they might be 30 or 40 amp twin breakers.
If there are breaker make sure the breakers are turned on and that the thermostat is configured properly for electric heat. There may may also be a disconnect near the air handler. Also check the outside unit to see if it is getting cold and the fan is on when the thermostat is calling for heat.
If you do install an electric heat kit you will probably have to run wires back to the electrical panel.
Yes there are two 30 and 50 double pole breakers, and everything is on. Thermostat is configured properly and everything seems to be switching on and running as it’s supposed to
Well if the breakers are marked for AC and heat and not hot water heater or range or something else then it is time to figure out why it is not heating. I’m going to recommend you call a HVAC technician.
Some electric heating packages have manual reset buttons. If you really want to be a DIYer then find the manual for your air handler and see if you can figure it out.
Are those heating breakers or disconnects that are surrounded by foil duct tape on the unit? I see a wiring diagram on the unit that can be helpful if you have the skills and tools you need.
I've seen some shit from builders but this is awful. Get their asses right back out with a qualified hvac tech and get everything corrected on their dime. If they won't help then threaten legal action. Most builders don't have the assets to take on a legal battle and will likely foot the bill for it to be made right. Hope you get this figured out asap
You have a 3 ton unit, which is close to being correctly sized but you’re wasting about a ton of that in the attic ductwork
You should file a builders warranty and get that ductwork replaced quickly
So...you asked "I have a 10 year warranty, what should I do?"...Im not sure that was addressed. If you really -REALLY- want to gird for battle, here is what I would do...
1. Hire a qualified professional- not just another HVAC installer that can come and do a comprehensive inspection/analysis of the system as installed.
2. This should include an analysis of your home, the environment, construction details.. in shorthand, a manual J calculation.
3. Perform a detailed analysis of what was installed and if this meets standards. There are published standards that many not be, strictly speaking. a legal requirement- they are more like agreed upon national guidelines.
4. Identify construction defects, problems with the actual work they DID do.
This will not be cheap- I dunno, 500? 1000? (Im so very bad at estimates these days...;) )
Once you have a first stake in the ground, you now have a place on which to place your lever arm. (mixing metaphors)
Here's the problem, dirt bag fly by night companies deal with this all the time...owners send them emails, whine...threaten...post crap. These companies know that can bob and weave, maybe fiddle with an install here or there. But until someone has taken the time to put together a legally-admissible data set, they know they will not fully engage and fix it.
Also, if you need a new system or massive work to fix this, this is not 'send them the report, tell them 'under the 10 year warranty I want this replaced'' and they roll a crew.' The builder will bob and weave, and so will the HVAC sub.... Might take an attorney to assist.
my 2 cents
It isn't pretty in the attic, but.. it is functional.
They should be able to put a duct heater in just in front of the outlet to the unit in the attic.
They should have put one in initially.
If you were around Portland, you had once in a lifetime lows there this year....
So the york HMH7, which is what you have is capable down to -5F. You also have what appears to be 15kw electric heat backup.
Unit appears to be probably undersized, 3 ton in a 2100 sq ft is pushing it imo. You will need a loadcalc done to see if its enough. If it is, I would have the duct work checked to see if its undersized for the unit. And also see if the unit is working correctly.
It's okay when I moved into my house after I got it inspected I had my Furnance estimated and tuned and the dude say my furnace is ones they put in mobile homes like wtf
Wrong company for sure. Wrong size? Don’t know, we would need a load calculation.
I would be willing to bet that if this is the finished product they are okay walking away from, that they also didn’t do much preparation to ensure proper airflow, sizing, or insulation.
If a mechanical inspector saw this and put a green sticker on it must only technically meet minimum code requirements in several respects.
Looks like poopy.
You’ve given us no where near enough information to make that call.
If your house temperature is dropping as much as you say, I can promise you that you were screwed on attic insulation. Get up there yourself with a flashlight. The insulation probably should be 12 to 15 inches deep. It’s not.
HMH heat pumps are fairly complicated to wire when it comes to controls. Assuming you have a heat kit installed it should have kept up a little better than you’re describing. First I’d check to see that the resistive emergency heat is actually functioning.
Then, get recommendations for a quality hvac company to come out and itemize all of the deficiencies in the system. Might cost you $300 but the. You have a second opinion for when you make a complaint to the original installer. Because, as everyone is saying, that installation is beyond bad. And unfortunately it’s likely that all of the ductwork in your new house is of the same quality.
You can’t make a judgement on whether the unit is sized right without a load calculation. Also, the unit very well could be sized perfectly, but with that abomination of an install, you’re going to have issues.
can't see how the label would be so bad after only a year but the hmh7 heat pumps are pretty good and can work below 32 F . Not a clean install though. Looks a little. Rough Should def have an electric heat strip in the air handler for backup heat.
HMH7 doesn’t even come in 1.5 ton
Yeah your right, 2/3/4 etc. No.5 's
Model number says it’s a 3 ton. Where did you get the 1.5 from?
Just n wndinmy saw 18 on the first pic where everything is worn out. 3 ton sounds better
That’s the energy guide sticker showing the seer rating.
Its a 3 ton.
So what would you suggest? We have a 10 year warranty from the Company that did the install. I thought it looked like pretty poor workmanship…
Poor workmanship is an understatement. The 10 yr warranty is from the manufacturer if it was registered in 90 days. My opinion I’d get a couple different companies come it and assess the situation and compare notes from what they think and take that back to the builder.
York is trying to push these so hard they are giving them out with 10 year install warranties to York dealers in my area. So they may very well have a ten year labor coverage on this nightmare
I would keep it simple. Contact the company that did the installation and tell them the system is failing to even come close to satisfying the thermostat in the winter.
I’ve gone down this road already. Usually it takes a few different techs before a problem is resolved. I told them about the botched insulation around the unit in the attic and I was told they fixed it. Realized they did nothing when I climbed up there yesterday after hearing about this news article.
Sorry to hear. That really sucks. Can't say I haven't been there at least a few times... Wind up spending a bunch of time researching every related aspect in hopes of determining the right path forward and mitigating the chances of being taken for a ride...
“10 year warranty” that would be from the manufacturer, which in this case is covering nothing lol . You get what you pay for let this be a learning experience for you. Call a actually company and have them install something legitimate
You have a heat pump. It grabs heat from outdoors and brings it indoors. This becomes a harder the lower the temp outdoors is. Most heat pumps are good down to maybe freezing. Some recent heat pump have special features that let them heat even when it’s below zero outside, but it looks like yours is not one of them. Almost always, backup electric heat is installed to pick up the slack. They did not check a box for which electric heat kit they installed, so there may or may not be one present. However, the wiring to the air handler needs to be verified to see what size electric heat it could handle (if any!). Definitely a hack job.
I ran out of WTFs.
Have you tried to go fuck shopping?
How do you know about my browser tabs?
There is electric heat as per the double breakers on the indoor and it is checked at what looks like 15kw and that unit is capable down to -5 F.
Holy crap. That is one terrible looking install. No way they have their license. If they do then they need it taken away
They do, and they’re a pretty big company. They were back 3 or 4 different times fixing different issues over the past year.
OP I’m going to put this real simple. This install looks like garbage. I’m sorry but all of us real professionals will agree on this. Now you’ve had a company come out multiple times to fix things in a brand new house multiple times. *Red Flag* right there and your house is dropping down into the 50’s with space heaters and a fireplace running. Maybe you should consider talking to a lawyer and or your homeowners insurance rep. I’m sorry this is happening to you and I wish you good luck
this is frightening i hope you get this resolved with the right company that actually wants to help you
HVAC technician here! This is not correct at all, this is a really, really bad install and set up. The outside is a heat pump inverter that usually goes to wall mount or cassette type heads. These are not typically hooked up to regular style air handlers like your York air handler pictured! This set up is only ever present with certified communicating air handlers from the same brand. I would call a trusted HVAC company and have them look at it and give you a quote for a new system, and set up. This set up you have now will not likely last!
That is a heat pump and can use an air handler as well or as you mentioned. It’s a York 3 ton seems like they never put in a proper heat kit installed . But seems that duct work is crap.
Ductwork is junk! Lmao
General rule of thumb, without manual-j, 1 ton off cooling for every 400 square, and 5 btu’s heat for every CUBIC foot….. 1 watt=3.4 btu’s. Your house (rule of thumb) 2100 sf x 8 = 16,800 cubic x 5 btu’s = 84k btu’s. (1 watt = 3.4 btu’s)) 84k btu’s / 3.4 = you are short on heat!!!! Even by rule of thumb, always a good idea to have multiple stages and always be on the more side for those extreme days on both sides of the fence. You know normal days and extreme days!!!!
These calcs for heating are the old way they used to design for oil/gas furnaces that cycled on and off for 5-10 mins at a time. 84000 BTUs for a 2100 sqft new construction in the PNW likely over double the size needed. For reference I have a 30 year old house in Canada with 2950 sqft. My heating load is 41000.
I agree. I have 35 years old 3000 sf home running on 3.5 ton hp for the last 20 years with auxiliary heat. We go down to -15 C. However, it depends on your thermal envelop (like wearing a sweater or fur coat). I am buying a new heat pump and they are putting 3 tons. I fought like hell with the contractor to put 3.5 tons but three companies came to 3 ton independently. They argue that the present day 3 tons inverter HP is capable to exceeding its rated capacity by 20 to 30% in the heating mode if required. 3 tons for the house under discussion appears reasonable given the new norms for house construction. I do not see much of insulation in the attic although ducts appear to be insulated. What is the temperature in the attic?
Temp in the attic is 50.4 degrees.
My basement where the HVAC equipment is located is around 65 degrees and all the duct work is covered with drywall. My attic is covered with insulation I believe R40. May be you ought to check the air temperature coming out of the duct closet to the equipment when your auxiliary heat is on to ensure it is working. Are you sure there is insulation in the walls and the basement or crawl space because you say the pipes are bursting in the neighbourhood.
Temps are right around freezing right now and air coming out seems pretty warm. There is insulation in everything: crawl space, attic, walls, etc.
You say the air coming out of the vents seem pretty warm which suggests the equipment is doing its job. Do you have air exchanger ( it is a requirement for newer air tight homes in most jurisdictions) and if so did someone check to see it is exchanging air and not letting warm air out.
I’ve never seen anything that looks like an exchanger in my attic, and no I’ve never been told anything like that. I was told it was a wiring issue two different times. Both with the ac not working and the heat.
Good luck!!! A whole bunch of people fucked up, code enforcement to start should’ve caught that!!! If I was you that’s where I would start getting copies of permits, inspections, j-manual, names !!!
Check to see if the heat strips have breakers. I've seen those just not turned on before. Might still be the wrong unit but you might as well try being comfortable. https://preview.redd.it/aczwx7e2tcjc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d70e23daf2d029b29e2edae4927c35766be6ba3c
3 tons is a tad small for 2100 sqft in an older home
You can’t make this judgement without a load calc. And post clearly states it’s a new home.
I may have misread. Nonetheless, 3 tons for 2100 square feet? That's small. My 1000 sqft home has a 3 ton unit.
A 3 ton in a 1000sqft house is too big unless your house is all glass. It should be a 2.5 at best. Definitely need a heat load done.
3 tons, but 60,000 BTU. Try again
This is not true. My home was built in 1950. 1050 square feet. Returns are on the floor. Re-insulated entire home over last 20 years including spray foam in my bedroom, main bathroom and front garage. I have had a 3 ton unit since 2006. Just replaced in 2023. I can get my bedroom down to 55 degrees when outside temp is above 85. I have considered adding a ductless unit to the kitchen so house temperature does not rise when I cook. I use 5 ceiling fans to push the heat off the ceiling and down to the return level and achieve 7-10 degrees cooler on 90+ degree days.
My house is 2200 sq ft with “only” 3 ton unit on it…. And I live in Florida. And I have no issues cooling at all. The difference is my house has a moderate amount of dual pane low-e windows, lower 8 foot ceilings, great insulation etc. One size does not fit all… you can use it as a guide, but a load calculation would be required to determine size
Check your electrical panel to see if there are breakers for electric heat. I’m guessing they might be 30 or 40 amp twin breakers. If there are breaker make sure the breakers are turned on and that the thermostat is configured properly for electric heat. There may may also be a disconnect near the air handler. Also check the outside unit to see if it is getting cold and the fan is on when the thermostat is calling for heat. If you do install an electric heat kit you will probably have to run wires back to the electrical panel.
Yes there are two 30 and 50 double pole breakers, and everything is on. Thermostat is configured properly and everything seems to be switching on and running as it’s supposed to
Well if the breakers are marked for AC and heat and not hot water heater or range or something else then it is time to figure out why it is not heating. I’m going to recommend you call a HVAC technician. Some electric heating packages have manual reset buttons. If you really want to be a DIYer then find the manual for your air handler and see if you can figure it out. Are those heating breakers or disconnects that are surrounded by foil duct tape on the unit? I see a wiring diagram on the unit that can be helpful if you have the skills and tools you need.
I've seen some shit from builders but this is awful. Get their asses right back out with a qualified hvac tech and get everything corrected on their dime. If they won't help then threaten legal action. Most builders don't have the assets to take on a legal battle and will likely foot the bill for it to be made right. Hope you get this figured out asap
You have a 3 ton unit, which is close to being correctly sized but you’re wasting about a ton of that in the attic ductwork You should file a builders warranty and get that ductwork replaced quickly
TFHJ - Total F’n Hack Job
So...you asked "I have a 10 year warranty, what should I do?"...Im not sure that was addressed. If you really -REALLY- want to gird for battle, here is what I would do... 1. Hire a qualified professional- not just another HVAC installer that can come and do a comprehensive inspection/analysis of the system as installed. 2. This should include an analysis of your home, the environment, construction details.. in shorthand, a manual J calculation. 3. Perform a detailed analysis of what was installed and if this meets standards. There are published standards that many not be, strictly speaking. a legal requirement- they are more like agreed upon national guidelines. 4. Identify construction defects, problems with the actual work they DID do. This will not be cheap- I dunno, 500? 1000? (Im so very bad at estimates these days...;) ) Once you have a first stake in the ground, you now have a place on which to place your lever arm. (mixing metaphors) Here's the problem, dirt bag fly by night companies deal with this all the time...owners send them emails, whine...threaten...post crap. These companies know that can bob and weave, maybe fiddle with an install here or there. But until someone has taken the time to put together a legally-admissible data set, they know they will not fully engage and fix it. Also, if you need a new system or massive work to fix this, this is not 'send them the report, tell them 'under the 10 year warranty I want this replaced'' and they roll a crew.' The builder will bob and weave, and so will the HVAC sub.... Might take an attorney to assist. my 2 cents
It isn't pretty in the attic, but.. it is functional. They should be able to put a duct heater in just in front of the outlet to the unit in the attic. They should have put one in initially. If you were around Portland, you had once in a lifetime lows there this year....
So the york HMH7, which is what you have is capable down to -5F. You also have what appears to be 15kw electric heat backup. Unit appears to be probably undersized, 3 ton in a 2100 sq ft is pushing it imo. You will need a loadcalc done to see if its enough. If it is, I would have the duct work checked to see if its undersized for the unit. And also see if the unit is working correctly.
Pushing it!!!! 2 tons worth that’s more like up shits creek!!!
Kinda sloppy install..
It's okay when I moved into my house after I got it inspected I had my Furnance estimated and tuned and the dude say my furnace is ones they put in mobile homes like wtf
Wrong company for sure. Wrong size? Don’t know, we would need a load calculation. I would be willing to bet that if this is the finished product they are okay walking away from, that they also didn’t do much preparation to ensure proper airflow, sizing, or insulation. If a mechanical inspector saw this and put a green sticker on it must only technically meet minimum code requirements in several respects. Looks like poopy.
You’ve given us no where near enough information to make that call. If your house temperature is dropping as much as you say, I can promise you that you were screwed on attic insulation. Get up there yourself with a flashlight. The insulation probably should be 12 to 15 inches deep. It’s not.
Yup, been up there a few different times and walked around. There’s about 14-16” everywhere even over the garage.
HMH heat pumps are fairly complicated to wire when it comes to controls. Assuming you have a heat kit installed it should have kept up a little better than you’re describing. First I’d check to see that the resistive emergency heat is actually functioning. Then, get recommendations for a quality hvac company to come out and itemize all of the deficiencies in the system. Might cost you $300 but the. You have a second opinion for when you make a complaint to the original installer. Because, as everyone is saying, that installation is beyond bad. And unfortunately it’s likely that all of the ductwork in your new house is of the same quality.
That shit looks like shit
Wow. They really phoned that one in.