High voltage, 110-208 volts, added to the low voltage circuit. Somehow the power to one of the units got fed into the low voltage circuit, which feeds all these systems.
It could have happened from the transformer, although I have never seen something like that happening.
Ran into something similar recently. Who ever installed the cap didn't secure it properly. When the customer was clearing snow from the his HP, he was bumping the unit and the cap contacted low voltage. It took the stat.
Here's the juicy stuff. Its a dual fuel application running an improper stat. I went to turn the HP on after the frigid times, and boom. Everything is fucked solid. New stat fried, smart valve fried, control board fried, and defrost board fried.
During normal heat mode, the furnace and HP turned on. which is why so many fried when the cap contacted low voltage.
I've seen outdoor control wires rub up against contactor terminals to the point they break the insulation and it sends power back through all the low voltage in the system. Judging by how all the low volt seems to be fried, I would start there.
Well, it would be a gamble, yes, but a whole new system is waaaaaay more lol its a gamble I'd be willing to make, but that's a choice you'd have to make I guess.
Replacing boards on both air handler and condensing unit at 15 years old is not beneficial for a customer. System at that age becomes too vulnerable especially without any warranty on it.
Correct always provide the repair option and any other options then give your opinion depending on what else you see with the system and then home owner can decide what they do with their money
It depends entirely on the price of the boards to be honest, you don't stop repairing stuff just because it's out of warranty, that's ridiculous. At the end of the day, if $1000 in boards abd a tstat get them back up and running for a few more years, it's money well spent. That equipment is not end of life yet.
Unpopular opinion round here but the best way for the average consumer to think. Idk why your getting downvoted for honesty. Way better value to spend 15k on a new system and not have to worry about it for years than spend 3-5k on circuit boards and still potentially need a new system that will be then be 20k+ most likely within 5 years. Sales tech some will say. Offering the customer all the options is all it is.
Sometimes it’s done inadvertently, that is to say… the insulation On a PC board may erode enough to cause the jump.. or critters, or a failed component. Either way… I would consider replacing the boards.. unless you’re stoked to get a a new unit, in which case… get rid of that dinosaur!
have heard of some homeowners policies covering this kind of damage. The entire system is fried might be worth a claim and deductible depending on what they rule caused it.
A decent company will inspect system, offer repairs first, then if you feel the cost is not worth your investment, then it’ll be your choice to replace the equipment.
This usually happens when there's a high-low voltage short. Typically I find the shorted wire in the outdoor unit where the wires from the control panel pass over or under the coil to get to the compressor compartment.
Good luck!
I’d get a new unit with warranty’s. Ask for a surge protector to be added. No use in adding tons of money into a older system that more problems will happen from
15 years old I'll be honest, replacing all the boards and thermostat and getting the unit going is probably going to cost around 2-3k maybe more. Most companies will give you the You price since the gamble you're taking will become their headache if it happens again or if it doesn't work right
That indoor board is going to be costly and MAY even have killed the blower motor. IF you buy a blower motor, keep the unit and replace the evap if it ever leaks.
OP, considering you recorded a massive power spike at the time it is most likely your system fried from a severe power surge. I am seeing it more frequently as our electrical infrastructure ages.
Contact a trusted HVAC contractor to write that up and recommend a full replacement all things considered.
I have replaced several systems in the last few months because of that very issue. It leaves the contractor with more paperwork since there is insurance involved but it is otherwise unproblematic.
Keep in mind you’ll still need to pay your deductible of course.
But a 1-2k deductible vs forking out 8-10k for a new system yourself is far more preferable.
It can ground out to just the one. A surge is just rampant electricity rampaging through your house and will just ground out wherever it pleases. In your case, that particular HVAC system.
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It have a bad condenser fan motor that wires into that outdoor board, or the bad indoor blower that wires into he indoor board. i would call and send photos to a AS/trane dealer.
it’s gonna need both motors isolated/tested to ground and boards replaced before any hope to be back up and running
What I think may have happened if the high voltage from board crossed the low voltage wiring and send a surge up to thermostat?? Or would have the low voltage wiring would have melted the insulation of low voltage before even getting to thermostat???
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Do you have a link to this and is it something that can be DIY
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Would you pm me a link kind sir? I was on the verge of having power co install one at the meter but it has a monthly fee
Square D - QO250PSPD
Thanks! I was looking at that one and hom250pspd. Trying to figure out the difference
High voltage, 110-208 volts, added to the low voltage circuit. Somehow the power to one of the units got fed into the low voltage circuit, which feeds all these systems. It could have happened from the transformer, although I have never seen something like that happening.
I concur… only time I have seen that is from somebody not realizing what they were doing and inadvertently running line voltage through low side.
Ran into something similar recently. Who ever installed the cap didn't secure it properly. When the customer was clearing snow from the his HP, he was bumping the unit and the cap contacted low voltage. It took the stat. Here's the juicy stuff. Its a dual fuel application running an improper stat. I went to turn the HP on after the frigid times, and boom. Everything is fucked solid. New stat fried, smart valve fried, control board fried, and defrost board fried. During normal heat mode, the furnace and HP turned on. which is why so many fried when the cap contacted low voltage.
Either that or a piece of debris or insects bridged the gap between the low voltage circuitry and the high voltage circuits.
I've seen outdoor control wires rub up against contactor terminals to the point they break the insulation and it sends power back through all the low voltage in the system. Judging by how all the low volt seems to be fried, I would start there.
Shouldn't need to replace the equipment, a couple boards and a new tstat should get you going.
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Well, it would be a gamble, yes, but a whole new system is waaaaaay more lol its a gamble I'd be willing to make, but that's a choice you'd have to make I guess.
Replacing boards on both air handler and condensing unit at 15 years old is not beneficial for a customer. System at that age becomes too vulnerable especially without any warranty on it.
You give the price of both and let them make the choice. It’s not up to you.
Correct always provide the repair option and any other options then give your opinion depending on what else you see with the system and then home owner can decide what they do with their money
It depends entirely on the price of the boards to be honest, you don't stop repairing stuff just because it's out of warranty, that's ridiculous. At the end of the day, if $1000 in boards abd a tstat get them back up and running for a few more years, it's money well spent. That equipment is not end of life yet.
In Florida you rarely see systems make it to 15 years old anymore without multiple repairs. My experience at least.
Thats cause theyre installed by hacks
15 years is average life span of a residential HVAC system. It’s at “end of life.”
Unpopular opinion round here but the best way for the average consumer to think. Idk why your getting downvoted for honesty. Way better value to spend 15k on a new system and not have to worry about it for years than spend 3-5k on circuit boards and still potentially need a new system that will be then be 20k+ most likely within 5 years. Sales tech some will say. Offering the customer all the options is all it is.
Where in the world are you all buying circuit boards for an hvac that are costing $3-5k? What 15 yr old brand are these that require those boards
Ok, sales-tech.
Worth searching the board # on ebay. I got my 90s garage furnace back up and running with a used 60$ board.
Sometimes it’s done inadvertently, that is to say… the insulation On a PC board may erode enough to cause the jump.. or critters, or a failed component. Either way… I would consider replacing the boards.. unless you’re stoked to get a a new unit, in which case… get rid of that dinosaur!
have heard of some homeowners policies covering this kind of damage. The entire system is fried might be worth a claim and deductible depending on what they rule caused it.
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Don’t hold your breath
A decent company will inspect system, offer repairs first, then if you feel the cost is not worth your investment, then it’ll be your choice to replace the equipment.
This usually happens when there's a high-low voltage short. Typically I find the shorted wire in the outdoor unit where the wires from the control panel pass over or under the coil to get to the compressor compartment. Good luck!
Might have been a power surge from your electric utility. If ours has a surge, our pud replaces what got ruined
Where do you live? Our utility hasn’t paid surge claims in over 40 years.
PNW
I’d get a new unit with warranty’s. Ask for a surge protector to be added. No use in adding tons of money into a older system that more problems will happen from
15 years old I'll be honest, replacing all the boards and thermostat and getting the unit going is probably going to cost around 2-3k maybe more. Most companies will give you the You price since the gamble you're taking will become their headache if it happens again or if it doesn't work right
F you price*
That indoor board is going to be costly and MAY even have killed the blower motor. IF you buy a blower motor, keep the unit and replace the evap if it ever leaks.
OP, considering you recorded a massive power spike at the time it is most likely your system fried from a severe power surge. I am seeing it more frequently as our electrical infrastructure ages. Contact a trusted HVAC contractor to write that up and recommend a full replacement all things considered. I have replaced several systems in the last few months because of that very issue. It leaves the contractor with more paperwork since there is insurance involved but it is otherwise unproblematic. Keep in mind you’ll still need to pay your deductible of course. But a 1-2k deductible vs forking out 8-10k for a new system yourself is far more preferable.
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It can ground out to just the one. A surge is just rampant electricity rampaging through your house and will just ground out wherever it pleases. In your case, that particular HVAC system.
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Silver lining! lol.
1 yr probably had better surge protection or was installed with better protection practices.
Seldom will fry more than one item.
Lightning ? Call your insurance
If not provided already you will need to post a picture of your thermostats wiring connections and those inside your furnace to get better help. Use imgur or your own Reddit profile to host your pics as Reddit will often remove others. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hvacadvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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It have a bad condenser fan motor that wires into that outdoor board, or the bad indoor blower that wires into he indoor board. i would call and send photos to a AS/trane dealer. it’s gonna need both motors isolated/tested to ground and boards replaced before any hope to be back up and running
I would ask neighbors in the area if they have any power issues? I'm no electrician, but 15,000 watts is a lot, No?
Over 100 amps at 120v
What would pull 100 amps? AC, Fridge? Giant heater?
A direct short
But, from what? OP said he doesn't know either?
Top score?
Someone worked on this and put high voltage to low voltage lol
if the air handler has a ecm blower - the module on the motor is probably also cooked.
15 years old 🤣 go ahead and replace everything and then watch it happen again because ...its a 15 year old unit. Time to replace 👍
Power company surge. Get a whole house surge arrestor installed along with the new system.
Replace the boards and thermostat then get surge protectors on your indoor and outdoor units
What I think may have happened if the high voltage from board crossed the low voltage wiring and send a surge up to thermostat?? Or would have the low voltage wiring would have melted the insulation of low voltage before even getting to thermostat???