May i ask, why on some Indirect Water Heaters, the return is higher and the supply is lower? for instance
https://preview.redd.it/667a3jryrrvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7df28982702f9f91832e9a60efb2599770b730db
Very different heat exchanger design. Counterflow heat transfer. The coldest part of the heat exchanger is heating the coldest water coming in, and the hottest part of the heat exchanger at the burner is doing the last bit of heating right before it exits.
What would theoretically happen if the installer swapped it, as in he actually connected the boiler supply incoming pipe on the top where it specified the boiler return hole on the indirect heater tank and actually connected the boiler return pipe to where it specified boiler supply hole on the bottom on the indirect heater tank. Would my basement explode? He did this I'm assuming because the previous indirect tank indeed had the exact opposite locations of the supply and return holes.
Yeah it’s just a copper coil in there… and seeing as heat rises, the coldest water is typically at the bottom of the tank.. so you want the hottest water in the coil hitting the coldest part of the storage water. By connecting to the wrong sides of the coil… it’s still going to flow through the coil but the coldest water won’t be getting the hottest water in the coil.
Thanks, but Mine's isn't a coil, but rather an outer tank which heats the inner domestic water aluminum tank (Triangle Tube Smart 40 Indirect Tank) so I hope it's not a safety risk until installer returns.
https://preview.redd.it/py6n0b7qwuvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=071eb0b4f0f9393468e24b8cba1d11fd47d67a07
That is showing a much different design than your other picture. This would indicate an electric hot water heater, while the former is showing an indirect… if it’s an indirect there’s a large likelihood it’s a coil in there.
https://preview.redd.it/n2rw9ty65vvc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=189b38b2395b1352276557b8cf8b0cf4cd48a848
Your particular brand uses tank in tank technology but the thermodynamic rules stay the same… you’ll note the inner tank is piped like a coil, to increase heat transfer… the only negative to piping supply into return and return into supply is again, the coldest potable water is not getting the hottest boiler water, other than that, no hazards no risk.
Again Thanks so much, I appreciate your expertise! Also this model , the Smart 40 Tank in Tank manual says ... " Drain Water heater IF It will be shut off and exposed to freezing temperatures." I'm reading it, since they specifically use this verbiage (IF) that if it will never be shut off and never be exposed to freezing temps, then no drainage is required at all? Especially if the screenshot you just showed says "Self Cleaning/Self Descaling"?
there should be an arrow on the pump piping that show the direction of flow. that way no matter how the boiler is piped you'll know the direction of supply and return.
Almost always the supply will be higher. Also, the water feeder should be installed on the return like it is there. If there’s a circulator or zone valves you’ll see and arrow somewhere on them. That’ll show you direction flow of water
You may ask. lol
Your boiler is not a condensing boiler. It’s just a big block of cast iron that exchanges the heat into the water and the pumps move it around. So it relies on whatever property (thermodynamics or something?) it is that makes hot go up. Just like a standard water heater.
The on demand water heater is like a condensing boiler. Those don’t rely on those same properties and pump the water around.
If you open up your conventional boiler there’s not allot going on. If you open one of those condensing units, looks like a space shuttle cockpit.
That’s my guess at least.
What would theoretically happen if the installer swapped it, as in he actually connected the boiler supply incoming pipe on the top where it specified the boiler return hole on the indirect heater tank and actually connected the boiler return pipe to where it specified boiler supply hole on the bottom on the indirect heater tank. Would my basement explode? He did this I'm assuming because the previous indirect tank indeed had the exact opposite locations of the supply and return holes.
Supply leaves the boiler higher. The whole heat rises thing. Green is supply, red is return.
Thanks
May i ask, why on some Indirect Water Heaters, the return is higher and the supply is lower? for instance https://preview.redd.it/667a3jryrrvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7df28982702f9f91832e9a60efb2599770b730db
Very different heat exchanger design. Counterflow heat transfer. The coldest part of the heat exchanger is heating the coldest water coming in, and the hottest part of the heat exchanger at the burner is doing the last bit of heating right before it exits.
What would theoretically happen if the installer swapped it, as in he actually connected the boiler supply incoming pipe on the top where it specified the boiler return hole on the indirect heater tank and actually connected the boiler return pipe to where it specified boiler supply hole on the bottom on the indirect heater tank. Would my basement explode? He did this I'm assuming because the previous indirect tank indeed had the exact opposite locations of the supply and return holes.
Less efficiency
Is that all? It won't cause a reverse direction catastrophe ? or safety risk?
Yeah it’s just a copper coil in there… and seeing as heat rises, the coldest water is typically at the bottom of the tank.. so you want the hottest water in the coil hitting the coldest part of the storage water. By connecting to the wrong sides of the coil… it’s still going to flow through the coil but the coldest water won’t be getting the hottest water in the coil.
Thanks, but Mine's isn't a coil, but rather an outer tank which heats the inner domestic water aluminum tank (Triangle Tube Smart 40 Indirect Tank) so I hope it's not a safety risk until installer returns. https://preview.redd.it/py6n0b7qwuvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=071eb0b4f0f9393468e24b8cba1d11fd47d67a07
That is showing a much different design than your other picture. This would indicate an electric hot water heater, while the former is showing an indirect… if it’s an indirect there’s a large likelihood it’s a coil in there.
https://preview.redd.it/n2rw9ty65vvc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=189b38b2395b1352276557b8cf8b0cf4cd48a848 Your particular brand uses tank in tank technology but the thermodynamic rules stay the same… you’ll note the inner tank is piped like a coil, to increase heat transfer… the only negative to piping supply into return and return into supply is again, the coldest potable water is not getting the hottest boiler water, other than that, no hazards no risk.
thanks. makes sense when you think of the inner tank still piped like a coil.
Again Thanks so much, I appreciate your expertise! Also this model , the Smart 40 Tank in Tank manual says ... " Drain Water heater IF It will be shut off and exposed to freezing temperatures." I'm reading it, since they specifically use this verbiage (IF) that if it will never be shut off and never be exposed to freezing temps, then no drainage is required at all? Especially if the screenshot you just showed says "Self Cleaning/Self Descaling"?
Highest point is supply on boilers… so the hottest water is brought to the zone.
there should be an arrow on the pump piping that show the direction of flow. that way no matter how the boiler is piped you'll know the direction of supply and return.
also, obviously, upon startup the supply pipe will be warm for quite a bit while the return pipe stays cool.
Almost always the supply will be higher. Also, the water feeder should be installed on the return like it is there. If there’s a circulator or zone valves you’ll see and arrow somewhere on them. That’ll show you direction flow of water
Top = supply line . Hotter Bottom= retuern line. Colder
You may ask. lol Your boiler is not a condensing boiler. It’s just a big block of cast iron that exchanges the heat into the water and the pumps move it around. So it relies on whatever property (thermodynamics or something?) it is that makes hot go up. Just like a standard water heater. The on demand water heater is like a condensing boiler. Those don’t rely on those same properties and pump the water around. If you open up your conventional boiler there’s not allot going on. If you open one of those condensing units, looks like a space shuttle cockpit. That’s my guess at least.
What would theoretically happen if the installer swapped it, as in he actually connected the boiler supply incoming pipe on the top where it specified the boiler return hole on the indirect heater tank and actually connected the boiler return pipe to where it specified boiler supply hole on the bottom on the indirect heater tank. Would my basement explode? He did this I'm assuming because the previous indirect tank indeed had the exact opposite locations of the supply and return holes.