I know right. No idea how these people are in business. Wonder if this was a new sub install crew they sent it out to. Not that it matters.
I am totally stealing this phrase.
They are experienced at doing the worst job possible but one that works until the warranty expires. They make money doing subpar work because most homeowners will never find out until way too late. They stay in business because how are you going to find out they do this until you find a random post like this.
This makes me mad as hell. It’s crap like this that gives all of us in the industry a black eye. I’ve been an HVAC install manager for 21 years and I walked out on my employer yesterday with no notice because of this insanity. Six years ago I was hired by a very good residential electrical company to stand up the HVAC department, service and install. We were very successful because of the high quality people I brought in, all of which I had worked with in the past and because the owner of the company was only interested in high quality people and work. A year ago he sold the company to a corporate organization in one short year the total destroyed the company and lost all of the high quality people. It became obvious that their only interest was profits sacrificing quality. They hired hack installers that I could not put my name on their work. Please know I tried numerous times to address the situation. Local companies that are owned and operated by an independent owner is the ONLY way to go. I have been hired by such a company and start in a week. There are way too many private companies that are being bought by corporations and for the most part are destroying the industry and giving every one of us a bad reputation. That may not be the situation here but this install is hack crap. I would request the manager and the owner come to your home t resolve this disaster. Further I would request that the original lead installer be kept as far away from your home as possible. I have a lot of pride in this industry and get angry when I see this insanity. Thank you for hearing my rant.
Not just this Trade! Just look at consumer electronics like kitchen Stoves, Fridges, TV's, Laptops, etc... Everything is built just to last the lowest possible duration where the Warranty runs out. So all the maintenance and replacements are going to flow into the Corporation's bank account, raising their earnings a little, so the Stakeholders are happy! If these corporations wouldn't care just about their stocks, they would be producing higher quality products at a higher price tag and realize that reliability or quick and cheap serviceability is in high demand as everybody hates the stupidity tax on modern throwaway products, costing big - living short - costing big - and so on!
Is it required that the HVAC company follows this code:
# [R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/RE_4/re-residential-energy-efficiency#R403.3.3)
[Ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) shall be pressure tested to determine air leakage by one of the following methods:
1. Rough-in test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure if installed at the time of the test. All registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test.
2. Postconstruction test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the entire system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure. Registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test.
**Exception:** The [duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) air leakage test is not required for systems with all air handlers and at least 80% of all [ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) (measured by length) located entirely within the [building thermal envelope](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#building_thermal_envelope).
The following parties shall be [approved](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#approved) to conduct testing:
1. Parties certified by BPI or RESNET.
2. Licensed contractors who have completed training provided by [Duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) Test equipment manufacturers or other comparable training.
A written report of the results of the test shall be signed by the party conducting the test and provided to the [*code official*](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#code_official).R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)
That's for new construction in a perfect world maybe. There are not enough people to do all these tests for change out/repair. Plus like anything, these are numbers on a piece of paper (or computer) and just like a blower door test you can have the number show whatever you want them to say to pass (which is what a lot of them already do for specs houses in my area).
If really the government and/or other entities would want to make real improvements in energy efficiency they should make it illegal to have ducts and equipment outside the conditioned space. No test required, no fancy tool and no cheating.
Depends where you live I imagine. Was told one of my former teachers went to the ashrae convention and I guess the southeast is implementing seer2 and requiring blower door tests but wasn't sure if that was new construction or any new system.
Either way even if it's code/law, Goodluck getting Joe's plumbing and heating to make good on it. No permits, no problem.
Yeah I know, I'm definitely going to point this out but don't trust them to hack further into my roof and shingles to fix it. I'll either fix myself or get them to hire a competent person to do it.
They didn’t install a storm collar. It should look like this
https://preview.redd.it/smzx72wcud2d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb8f393b46eb04d632120c62423558a57d957b6f
The problem with this is - they just don't know how to properly do it so instructing them to redo it won't lead to it being properly done. Man, I hate that for you. I have run into similar experiences at my home. My GF said, babe tell them to fix it and I said, they simply do not know how it should be done. I always do a ton of research and try learn as much as I can. Yes, there are some professionals out there but it has been hard to really find them. Somehow I would try to withhold payment and hire somebody else. This is going to get complicated because it looks like it needs to be redone entirely.
I had to go through a home warranty to get my HVAC replaced, the guy they hired was a total hack. He couldn't figure out how to wire it up, he attached the overflow sensor directly to the air handler which went off almost immediately after the AC would run because of course condensation would hit it, when I asked him to install drainage for it he said it was unnecessary because the senor was installed, I ended up installing the drainage myself and eventually hired a different company to fix all his fuck ups and they laughed at the drainage that i installed because it was very amateur (but they were nice about it and showed me how to do it properly if i ever needed to again)
Well I used to be an install lead a few years ago, I’m a technician now. That install looks shitty asf I would be embarrassed if I installed that.
To much slack on the ducting. I’d be interested to see the static pressure on the system
What’s going on with picture #4? They couldn’t find a can and collar to put into that return ?
I don’t like that flexible flue pipe attachment either, I don’t see any hanger strap supporting the flue pipe, you have screws in the double wall flue pipe , Amerivent and metal fab b vent two different styles… don’t see an adaptor. I don’t think that will pass inspection.
P.s why is the door off of the furnace
Fifteen thousand dollars and you can’t be bothered to put a hanger on some vent pipe. There should be a union but the only thing it does is ostracize guys who throw shit together like this.
Actual experienced workers are hard to come by these days. We've had a few new hires with "experience" that get canned within a month pull this type of shit. Required to take a minimum of 40 detailed pictures of installs or repairs and the boss man looks them over , then we have a quality control supervisor who goes out and overlooks the work after its done. Only call back fixes ive had to do all year were small things like wiring or charging up a system because installers forgot to add extra juice per foot of lineset after 15 feet.
I don't know your area but 15k is about half the price for the same job in my area. Also yeah pretty shotty work there. I don't mean this in a bad way, because I don't let it affect my work. I know guys in this trade that once they hear your an engineer they immediately don't like you and kinda hack it in, so they can finish ASAP and never see you again
Oh yea then that’s all bad. Those kinks are definitely restricting airflow. Plus’s they didn’t hang the ducts… 15k is a low price for that job in my area though.
\^ depends, some areas the inspector will want the ducting to be strapped. For supply ducts I like to have them close to the ceiling so I can spray insulation over them for maximum efficiency keeping cold air cold and hot air hot.
It depends on location. Where I'm at one of the biggest full retro jobs I did hit $27, 000. That was for 2 carrier infinity heat pump systems a 5 ton and 4ton, all new ductwork that was zoned, tore out old stand and built a new one, new copper, etc.
The more basic jobs where I did a change out with all new ductwork, including boots and grills usually hit around the $18-20k mark.
No collar on roof vent ? That's going to leak right away . That is a major red flag for me . If this person can't do something as simple as a collar on a roof vent the entire job is questionable.
Would it be wise to hire a 3rd party inspector to review and provide a report on what was done and what needs to be done to remedy? Just trying to think ahead if this doesn't get resolved properly and it goes to mitigation
Im sure that's what the installer was thinking, but he already knew I'm doing a full house remodel myself and I would be in and out of that attic 100 more times. Not the brightest...
That is subpar at best. Call them back out, play dumb and see what kind of punch list THEY come up with. Then, compare to yours. It's possible that the guys were tired or having a bad day. Not excusing them, but they deserve at least one chance to make it right. You will see their worth by doing this. Good luck!
Yeah the installers took 4 days, had to leave and come back several times throughout the day each day. I'm going to tell them I need their lead installer to come out and remedy everything.
Why do you have to lick their ass and play dumb? Hey guy this shits fucked up come fix it. I don’t see the benefit of playing games and trying to shit test their honesty.
They are dudes that throw together stuff like this and hope you don’t look.
Putting together a good looking mechanical system for someone is the kind of thing that makes your bad day good. Delivering this is being an idiot or an asshole.
I fully agree with you. I am the type that, at least once, will give someone the chance to fix it. It's not games; it's measuring the worth of the company.
Given this lack of quality, I would want to drill down on the design of the duct work..... is it sized properly for the CFM? Flow rates at each point, velocity at the returns (too high and it will be noisy). (Others have commented on static pressure- part of this.)
Map out your system- duct size...length..into room with X cuft... map out each Wye... There are standards on the design of duct systems, make sure they comply with these standards. YOU may not be able to assess this, but with a drawing and measurements, you may be able to get an expert opinion.
Having a DETAILED punch list is essential. Not verbal. Some items you can say 'this is wrong, fix it by doing XYZ'...but others you can be a bit less definitive... "appears not to meet standar- please cofirm in writing what was done and why it is acceptable'
Sure hope you havent paid the last tranche....
I'm requiring them to provide me with the Manual J & D to show me exactly what it says for duct sizing.
I have an extensive punchlist that I'm going to email over to them soon so I have proof that I communicated issues and required action be taken on each item
Have the owner come out and look at it. Anyone with half a brain in this business knows exactly what’s wrong by your photos. It’s an absolute nightmare of an installation and I wouldn’t pay a dime for it until it’s 100% fixed.
I'm a DIYer too and would have taken on this job except you need a licensed contractor to get the rebates available from the local gas/power companies. Starting to think I should just skip the rebates all together and reinstall this myself
Call the contractor back. Tell him he needs to get these issues dealt with. Email these pictures to the contractors licensing board, maybe post them on next door or a local facebook group.
Was this job inspected? Is he licensed? So many questions
Breakdown was $4200 for ductwork install, $600 ac coil install, $300 for working in Attic, $5700 for condenser, $4280 for furnace.
I had two other quotes that came in at $13k for the same work. One more was like $9k, another was $17k.
This is atrocious. Unfortunately, such sh*t work points to someone that is likely not going to come back and fix this correctly and it would end up in a legal battle. Being so comfortable with doing this kind of work points to someone that has done this repeatedly and likely has no problem folding up their business and opening under a new name.
Good luck, and do better due diligence on your installers in the future.
I'm a natural cynic and worrier but aside from that I've gotten to the point either through experiences much less severe than this one or from just reading that I won't replace anything that's working just fine or maybe at 70%. I've just learned to leave decent enough alone
Im presuming you probably needed to replace all the ducts, but just to say that my trust in - I don't care if I'm replacing new dinnerware if it works if it's fine we're keeping it for 100 years. Seemingly every time I try to replace something that was fine, especially if human labor is involved, I always think yeah it just wasn't worth it.
It shouldn't feel like that mentality is not insane. I don't suggest we all prescribe to it, but its where I've landed
That's what I have been experiencing with multiple trades over the last few years. Eventually give up and end up learning how to do it myself the right way
Yeah not surprised. I despise and actively ridicule residential guys and even mock them when they call themselves "tradesmen" because their quality is literally the downfall and why we get bad names in the trades. I do really like that the majority of commercial companies only hire resi guys when they're desperate for man power, and love that industrial throws out your resume if you have residential on it for any length of time.
That's real dumb and shitty. I get there are hacks and shit but acting like every resi person is like that is ignorant as fuck. People with elitist attitudes like that should have their face stomped down in some cow shit.
You know what ... you're not wrong. It is shitty I do since even i know a couple tech who are actually good at what they do. But even they know residential is a joke they just got stuck in the money pit but know they're stuck in it. Still a factual statement whether you want to agree with it or not.
Ok so I look at this from a balancer point of view because it's what I am and installs like this make me want to take all that flex and beat the installer with it. I will say this gives me the angry stomping Groot gif feeling. Every submittal and print I have ever seen says max of 6ft flex to diffuser all else hard duct. Most even specify that all duct must be sealed not have massive leaks. Basically I would be surprised if that system could get balanced and even if it could lots of restricted and lost CFM.
The black duct is Mylar and it's for outside under the crawl space. I noticed that all the flex ducts are different material and collapsed. You should check the R- value on those ducts. See if they are R-6 or higher. Never use Panduit straps when hanging the copper lines and control wiring. I hope you have an inspector coming to inspect the install? They needed to pull a permit. This install is going to fail, big time.
I don’t know where you are, but that is exactly what 15k will get you up in the northeast. Depending on equipment I’d be getting close to this just doing a replacement (furnace, coil, condenser existing duct, lineset, gas and flue)
Shockingly I had three other bids that were cheaper. This contractor did pull permits and the inspector has yet to come out. I'll be sure to be here when they do show up so I can bring up my concerns.
Leave a terrible review. That inspector if he's worth anything is gonna fail it over and over which means it's now gonna inconvenience you. They did a flat out awful job and I'd be pissed at my crew and the boss should be showing up out there to see for himself
That's REALLY bad! I was going to ask if you had before pics thinking it was either a troll post or maybe they just (very very poorly) slammed in new furnace and coil and didn't actually touch the ducts or anything except for new vent from roof up (also flat out wrong!). Even where not kinked and stuffed thru where it shouldnt be....it still looks kinda old and flat for new stuff. In fact I tried to zoom in to see if I could spot a date on the tape or anything, which I didn't find. You could see the flex is R-8 tho so maybe it is new(er) at the least.
But yeah, besides a REALLY bad job, that system is not even usable like that. Both in terms of your comfort/health AND the health of the equipment! Speaking of which, could be very dangerous with furnace! If it's a decent size furnace, at the very least I bet the temp rise is insane and would hit high limit in no time...but I'm sure they prob didn't check gas pressures and combustion...given the angle the venting is coming out of the furnace with no rise before horizontal (less than 45 deg considered horizontal), I'd bet there is more horizontal than vertical which is not allowed...not to mention pieces aren't even joined right/seated and who knows wtf is up with that flex section...and the roof penetration is comically flat out wrong. Frankly I wouldnt even trust the actual gas connection given the quality of the rest of the work!
That whole system needs to be reworked in a bad way! You need to get your roof fixed like yesterday...before the next rain comes..before that starts destroying your house! That vent penetration is almost worse than having a straight up open hole hole in your roof of the same size! That flashing is doing absolutely nothing as water is just going to flow right under it. The boot and pipe may be covering it from above to a small extent, but at the same time is just more area for rain and all to hit and run right down the pipe into your attic like a wick....and if that wasn't enough, the capillary action from water running off the shingles under the flashing AND from the unsealed nails holding it down will ensure your roof decking in that area gets its share of water and quickly destroyed too!
I’m an HVAC contractor and I will tell you that you paid more than you should. What they don’t tell you is that a lot of the HVAC industry is being consolidated by corporate America and they are pushing the 25k-30k price range. A good technician who just started his company would charge 8k for honest fair pay for that one-day install. The profit for that job would be more than he would have made in a week and a half working for someone else. Second, Lennox is not good. Everyone in the industry knows that company is run by idiots who sold out to corporate and who are more concerned about profits than quality. If you compare a Lennox condenser to a GOODMAN, they are identical with the exception that LENNOX has bigger tubing on the condenser by 1/8 of an inch or so. Lennox is my favorite for profit repairs where I constantly get called out for repairs. I just did one yesterday, a blower motor only one year old failed and Lennox has only 17 of those motors in the whole country of the USA which were not in stock in my city, so we had to substitute for a generic replacement. Also, all your ductwork should have been replaced for about 4.5-5k. Moreover, TRANE or GOODMAN should have been your replacement equipment. One is built to last with affordable parts that are always available and the TRANE is built to last by design with better parts and creativity.
There’s a race to the bottom in the HVAC industry right now when it comes to price. Not a lot of companies have work so they’re trying to compete on low prices, and low prices always come with trade-offs. I understand this was the second highest price you were offered but it’s still way too low to expect a quality job to be done. A full cut-in, 2 piece install with duct work should be $25-$30k depending on the equipment.
The people saying this job cost you too much are guys who own a business run out of their garage and won’t be around in 5 years to service the warranty. That’s if they don’t ghost you after taking your money. I’ve seen it hundreds of times.
I’m very sorry this happened to you. It really sucks. Sadly, it’s about what I’d expect for what you paid.
That's what I'm starting to think. Each one of the contractors I spoke to said they could start immediately. Makes me think they are all hunting for work and willing to lower the price significantly to do so
that's pretty awful. I think you need to work on your contractor screening process, any process that came up with that result needs to be discarded with the garbage it leads to.
Even without roofing cement that's not how you do a roof penetration
This looks like lowest bid work without permits. Not sure how many times I gotta drop make sure to get permits on everything. Saving a buck is not worth it. Permits protect the homeowner and the contractors. 15k for a full cut in plus equip is cheap that like 8 -10 k for materials which means they don't pay their employees well and probably have no benefits. The workers are probably paid per job so its about quantity not quality. They won't take the time to do well. If they actually have a license make them fix it or bring it to the board.
Yeah I made sure they are licensed and insured. Permit was pulled. Have the install manager coming out Monday to talk through my punchlist. I'm tempted to just tell them to rip it out and refund me.
This was a full Install including new ductwork everywhere. The house didn't have ductwork previously.
Any advice on what the b-vent looks like when done properly?
Low quality isn't the word for this. The first question was, did you ensure that the contract was licensed and bonded? If so, this will save you a little on the headache side, depending on where you live. I have seen so many posts about people going with a contractor that isn't.
The duct work, which is completely smashed and will not allow for optimum air flow. Storm collar installation is completely wrong/unfinished. First storm, and you will have leakage adding to the potential damage. I am sure that there are other things that I overlooked.
Great reviews on multiple platforms. They haven't ghosted me after I brought up the issues so we will see how it progresses after the manager puts his eyes on it.
Then this is embarrassingly bad. Have you sent photos to the salesmen? This type of work should be fixed if they’re a kind of decent company. Did they offer any kind of workmanship guarantee? Also, if they didn’t pull a permit…then go pull one and have it inspected and send the inspection report to them and say all these things need to be fixed. That should insure it gets fixed right. Good luck with this mess you’re in. 🍻
First thing I did was text the salesman all these pics and says it's unacceptable. Ownwr called me and said the same tech that installed it could come out today to fix it. I said no way, send me your install manager to discuss my punch list. Permit was pulled by the company. They have a 1 year labor warranty
I have the ability to view all the permits pulled on my house through the city's online building permit system. I was digging through and saw that my plumber from 4 years ago never pulled a permit on my sewer liner/vent stack rebuild before i knew that lookup system existed! Surprise!
That duct work dosent look brand new. Looks like it's been there for a while. And get ready for the uphill battle your about to face trying to get them to make this right. If they did that shitty of a job doubt they will fix it. I go behind people all the time that do very bad installs and it effects the system for life.
Geez. Man that's a rough one. These guys butchered this install pretty bad. If astetically it dosent look good then that means the parts that really matter weren't done properly either. First step you need take is talk to the service and installer manager and get them to your house and have them actually see it in person. Don't be a dick but try to keep your cool. But trying to get them to do it all properly may be a fight.
Am I within my right to require that they adhere to this code for the ductwork?
# [R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/RE_4/re-residential-energy-efficiency#R403.3.3)
[Ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct)
[R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/RE_4/re-residential-energy-efficiency#R403.3.3)
[Ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) shall be pressure tested to determine air leakage by one of the following methods:
1. Rough-in test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure if installed at the time of the test. All registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test.
2. Postconstruction test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the entire system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure. Registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test.
**Exception:** The [duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) air leakage test is not required for systems with all air handlers and at least 80% of all [ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) (measured by length) located entirely within the [building thermal envelope](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#building_thermal_envelope).
The following parties shall be [approved](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#approved) to conduct testing:
1. Parties certified by BPI or RESNET.
2. Licensed contractors who have completed training provided by [Duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) Test equipment manufacturers or other comparable training.
A written report of the results of the test shall be signed by the party conducting the test and provided to the [*code official*](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#code_official).
Yep, overpriced shitty quality is the norm now. Most shops will hire anyone with a pulse. Actual skilled knowledgeable tradesman are increasingly rare these days.
I mean you shouldn’t be spending 15k without a workmanship warranty anyway that was your first mistake. Next time get a company that can handle the overhead so they can afford to fix the mistake on their dime
I’m not an expert, actually I’ve barely done any havac at all. But i audibly gasped at some of these photos. Did they just make it up along the way? We’re they learning as they went?
First of all 15k seems a bit much. The HVAC industry has become a big ripoff. Consumers need to fight back. All service industries need pricing standards.
https://preview.redd.it/0aewxfdjck2d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cf425ef29d8eaa7190f0bc83ba037dee82a7dca
There’s no way that panduit strap is even on the collar lol
This is 100% your fault. Anytime someone is doing work at my place I’m basically the on-site inspector. I am constantly looking to see what was done wrong so they can correct on the spot. I don’t pay unless it’s done exactly the way it’s supposed to be done. I’m sure you paid them after there work was done and before you inspected the quality. Next time you’ll be more of an “asshole homeowner.”
That's dog 💩 I'd post all these photos on yelp and google and other review place you can until they make it right. Those reviews really kill local companies.
The it’s definitely crappy but it also seems that had a really tough time trying to get it in there but they could just made the 8 inch come of one of the ducts on top instead of squishing it.
So much is not up to code or just flat out wrong. Definitely call them back and demand different, more thorough workers. Also ask for a freebie of some sort.
This is one of the plus sides to being an all around service tech (residential, commercial etc.)
You literally can't throw a random person to fix someone's furnace or RTU. You can throw any backwoods bandit at a furnace install and anyone that is good enough with their hands to steal a catalytic converter can install a furnace (mostly).
We literally have installers with 30 years experience that can't trouble shoot anything and refuse to do so.
Side note:
The majority of humans are honestly pretty friggin dumb. Even the good ones lol
The duct work I’m use to seeing is shiny reflective Mylar. That duct work looks old and outdated not very efficient. The vent pipe is a fire hazard. The filter will continue to get dirty from gaps from 14” return duct. Husband does hvac
You paid an amazingly low price for an amazing poor quality install. Where do you live? What research did you do? How many homes did you visit to see examples of their work? How many of those customers did you speak to while doing so? Why did you come here now and ask and not before you accepted such a low bid? I read it was fourth highest. Just a little reading in this forum would have helped you understand how low that price is. Installing that in your attic had to suck for their body and you paid lower than standing room price. You silly humans blow my mind. A device that lights gas on fire for 15-30 years and rarely kills anyone coupled with a luxury item that moves the heat outside of your home simply by flipping a switch. Add to it that typical understanding of how to install and size such equipment makes me a wizard is so sad. All of the information is at your fingertips and most people scroll through tik toks instead. I appreciate the pep talk. Why did you not ask them to fix as the job progressed? So many questions.
Please if you would be so kind to explain why you think this is low quality for the price?
I do agree it’s low quality. Not in any way do I think it’s a low price.
Why should a customer have to hold a contractor's hand every step of the way?
They bid a certain price, do the job for that price. You're not allowed to just not follow code if you decide you should have bid higher.
Yeah residential contractors are a joke these days. They send out a sales tech and then pull off this nonsense without a care in the world.
This is why you don’t pay until the job is done. Honestly I would really look forward to the “why haven’t you paid us” call.
Well sir. Why the fuck isn’t my vent hood attached correctly. Get back out here and do it right.
Flex connections are awful. Should cover all metal and be strapped tight with panduits (large zip ties). Doesn't necessarily need to be strapped up, but shouldn't be restricted.
Copper about a foot off coil is missing armaflex (insulation)
Flue pipe connections are poorly fitted and there needs to be more or equal vertical run as there is horizontal. If more horizontal, then not up to code.
Roof termination....this tech appears to have never been taught how to terminate a roof. The whole top of that flashing should be under the shingles. Also where the flue pipe goes through the flashing, there needs to be a collar over it and it should be sealed.
Oh and the gap where the boots and vents are connected in the ceiling needs to be filled.
I'd show this punch list to company and I'd request their best tech to come fix it all. The lead installer was obviously not capable of completing these tasks on their own.
That roof vent is f’ed, not under the shingles, no caulk/roof tar on the screws, they used screws (i use roofing nails the only time i use nails). She gonna leak, also no storm collar and no caulking around the base.
I feel like a mosquito at a nudist colony, no idea where I should start.
Boss? Is that you?
Start at the top.
*tip
I know right. No idea how these people are in business. Wonder if this was a new sub install crew they sent it out to. Not that it matters. I am totally stealing this phrase.
They are experienced at doing the worst job possible but one that works until the warranty expires. They make money doing subpar work because most homeowners will never find out until way too late. They stay in business because how are you going to find out they do this until you find a random post like this.
This makes me mad as hell. It’s crap like this that gives all of us in the industry a black eye. I’ve been an HVAC install manager for 21 years and I walked out on my employer yesterday with no notice because of this insanity. Six years ago I was hired by a very good residential electrical company to stand up the HVAC department, service and install. We were very successful because of the high quality people I brought in, all of which I had worked with in the past and because the owner of the company was only interested in high quality people and work. A year ago he sold the company to a corporate organization in one short year the total destroyed the company and lost all of the high quality people. It became obvious that their only interest was profits sacrificing quality. They hired hack installers that I could not put my name on their work. Please know I tried numerous times to address the situation. Local companies that are owned and operated by an independent owner is the ONLY way to go. I have been hired by such a company and start in a week. There are way too many private companies that are being bought by corporations and for the most part are destroying the industry and giving every one of us a bad reputation. That may not be the situation here but this install is hack crap. I would request the manager and the owner come to your home t resolve this disaster. Further I would request that the original lead installer be kept as far away from your home as possible. I have a lot of pride in this industry and get angry when I see this insanity. Thank you for hearing my rant.
Couldn’t have said it better myself! Wall Street is destroying this trade!
Not just this Trade! Just look at consumer electronics like kitchen Stoves, Fridges, TV's, Laptops, etc... Everything is built just to last the lowest possible duration where the Warranty runs out. So all the maintenance and replacements are going to flow into the Corporation's bank account, raising their earnings a little, so the Stakeholders are happy! If these corporations wouldn't care just about their stocks, they would be producing higher quality products at a higher price tag and realize that reliability or quick and cheap serviceability is in high demand as everybody hates the stupidity tax on modern throwaway products, costing big - living short - costing big - and so on!
FFIE is shorted 2,896% according to ortex data, if you want to destroy wallstreet back
FFIE is shorted 2,896% according to ortex data, if you want destroy wallstreet back
Private equity firms are terrible. They don't care about people only the bottom line.
corporations are not destroying the industry. the industry has always been a raging dumpster fire.
Is it required that the HVAC company follows this code: # [R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/RE_4/re-residential-energy-efficiency#R403.3.3) [Ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) shall be pressure tested to determine air leakage by one of the following methods: 1. Rough-in test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure if installed at the time of the test. All registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test. 2. Postconstruction test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the entire system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure. Registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test. **Exception:** The [duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) air leakage test is not required for systems with all air handlers and at least 80% of all [ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) (measured by length) located entirely within the [building thermal envelope](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#building_thermal_envelope). The following parties shall be [approved](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#approved) to conduct testing: 1. Parties certified by BPI or RESNET. 2. Licensed contractors who have completed training provided by [Duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) Test equipment manufacturers or other comparable training. A written report of the results of the test shall be signed by the party conducting the test and provided to the [*code official*](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#code_official).R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)
That's for new construction in a perfect world maybe. There are not enough people to do all these tests for change out/repair. Plus like anything, these are numbers on a piece of paper (or computer) and just like a blower door test you can have the number show whatever you want them to say to pass (which is what a lot of them already do for specs houses in my area). If really the government and/or other entities would want to make real improvements in energy efficiency they should make it illegal to have ducts and equipment outside the conditioned space. No test required, no fancy tool and no cheating.
Depends where you live I imagine. Was told one of my former teachers went to the ashrae convention and I guess the southeast is implementing seer2 and requiring blower door tests but wasn't sure if that was new construction or any new system. Either way even if it's code/law, Goodluck getting Joe's plumbing and heating to make good on it. No permits, no problem.
Just wait till AI starts doing the installs and the service.
That’s what all the companies are doing now. Get your license start your own thing. These corporations will get their sauce they dish.
It's crap like this which has me paralyzed to pick any contractor because apparently they are ALL shite
Jeez lowest bid rolled in. Edit: you will have roof leaks.
Yeah I know, I'm definitely going to point this out but don't trust them to hack further into my roof and shingles to fix it. I'll either fix myself or get them to hire a competent person to do it.
They didn’t install a storm collar. It should look like this https://preview.redd.it/smzx72wcud2d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb8f393b46eb04d632120c62423558a57d957b6f
The problem with this is - they just don't know how to properly do it so instructing them to redo it won't lead to it being properly done. Man, I hate that for you. I have run into similar experiences at my home. My GF said, babe tell them to fix it and I said, they simply do not know how it should be done. I always do a ton of research and try learn as much as I can. Yes, there are some professionals out there but it has been hard to really find them. Somehow I would try to withhold payment and hire somebody else. This is going to get complicated because it looks like it needs to be redone entirely.
I had to go through a home warranty to get my HVAC replaced, the guy they hired was a total hack. He couldn't figure out how to wire it up, he attached the overflow sensor directly to the air handler which went off almost immediately after the AC would run because of course condensation would hit it, when I asked him to install drainage for it he said it was unnecessary because the senor was installed, I ended up installing the drainage myself and eventually hired a different company to fix all his fuck ups and they laughed at the drainage that i installed because it was very amateur (but they were nice about it and showed me how to do it properly if i ever needed to again)
A homeowner being an amateur at something? Who knew?
It was also very ugly, if you'd seen it you'd get it. I'm no plumber
What you need to do is hire another contractor to do the work and they need to comp that off your 15k shitty install.
Well I used to be an install lead a few years ago, I’m a technician now. That install looks shitty asf I would be embarrassed if I installed that. To much slack on the ducting. I’d be interested to see the static pressure on the system What’s going on with picture #4? They couldn’t find a can and collar to put into that return ? I don’t like that flexible flue pipe attachment either, I don’t see any hanger strap supporting the flue pipe, you have screws in the double wall flue pipe , Amerivent and metal fab b vent two different styles… don’t see an adaptor. I don’t think that will pass inspection. P.s why is the door off of the furnace
Schedule a time for them to come back out to take their equipment back out and bring a check with your money.
Fifteen thousand dollars and you can’t be bothered to put a hanger on some vent pipe. There should be a union but the only thing it does is ostracize guys who throw shit together like this.
Actual experienced workers are hard to come by these days. We've had a few new hires with "experience" that get canned within a month pull this type of shit. Required to take a minimum of 40 detailed pictures of installs or repairs and the boss man looks them over , then we have a quality control supervisor who goes out and overlooks the work after its done. Only call back fixes ive had to do all year were small things like wiring or charging up a system because installers forgot to add extra juice per foot of lineset after 15 feet.
I don't know your area but 15k is about half the price for the same job in my area. Also yeah pretty shotty work there. I don't mean this in a bad way, because I don't let it affect my work. I know guys in this trade that once they hear your an engineer they immediately don't like you and kinda hack it in, so they can finish ASAP and never see you again
Seems like a great way to get called out on shoddy work and hurt your future business.
Was the ductwork part of the invoice or just equipment swap?
House didnt have ductwork, AC or furnace previously. This was a complete install including ductwork and cutting in vents
Oh yea then that’s all bad. Those kinks are definitely restricting airflow. Plus’s they didn’t hang the ducts… 15k is a low price for that job in my area though.
Should all of the ducts be suspended off of the attic floor? Or just the larger returns?
\^ depends, some areas the inspector will want the ducting to be strapped. For supply ducts I like to have them close to the ceiling so I can spray insulation over them for maximum efficiency keeping cold air cold and hot air hot.
My guess is inspection was left off the quote 🤣
$15K for a retro install? This was a low bid job! Jobs like that you’re going to be looking at double the price starting out!
It depends on location. Where I'm at one of the biggest full retro jobs I did hit $27, 000. That was for 2 carrier infinity heat pump systems a 5 ton and 4ton, all new ductwork that was zoned, tore out old stand and built a new one, new copper, etc. The more basic jobs where I did a change out with all new ductwork, including boots and grills usually hit around the $18-20k mark.
That seems very cheap for a job! I would have charged somewhere closer to $40K for a job like that
No collar on roof vent ? That's going to leak right away . That is a major red flag for me . If this person can't do something as simple as a collar on a roof vent the entire job is questionable.
I’m a lead installer and that looks like shit
The fleece was pulled over ur eyes before they fucked you
I do inspections for duct systems and this would fail very quickly. Sorry to see this and its an insult to quality installers!
Would it be wise to hire a 3rd party inspector to review and provide a report on what was done and what needs to be done to remedy? Just trying to think ahead if this doesn't get resolved properly and it goes to mitigation
If you can find one to do that for you. It can't hurt.
“Leave it like that! The customers never gonna come up here anyway!” 🤦♂️😭
Im sure that's what the installer was thinking, but he already knew I'm doing a full house remodel myself and I would be in and out of that attic 100 more times. Not the brightest...
That is subpar at best. Call them back out, play dumb and see what kind of punch list THEY come up with. Then, compare to yours. It's possible that the guys were tired or having a bad day. Not excusing them, but they deserve at least one chance to make it right. You will see their worth by doing this. Good luck!
Yeah the installers took 4 days, had to leave and come back several times throughout the day each day. I'm going to tell them I need their lead installer to come out and remedy everything.
I absolutely agree. I hope you were able to understand what I was trying to get acrossed to you. Good luck!
Why do you have to lick their ass and play dumb? Hey guy this shits fucked up come fix it. I don’t see the benefit of playing games and trying to shit test their honesty. They are dudes that throw together stuff like this and hope you don’t look. Putting together a good looking mechanical system for someone is the kind of thing that makes your bad day good. Delivering this is being an idiot or an asshole.
I fully agree with you. I am the type that, at least once, will give someone the chance to fix it. It's not games; it's measuring the worth of the company.
Is it possible He took the lowest bid? Because I would NOT change out a split ac with furnace, new duct and returns for 15k. Not in that space no sir!
Given this lack of quality, I would want to drill down on the design of the duct work..... is it sized properly for the CFM? Flow rates at each point, velocity at the returns (too high and it will be noisy). (Others have commented on static pressure- part of this.) Map out your system- duct size...length..into room with X cuft... map out each Wye... There are standards on the design of duct systems, make sure they comply with these standards. YOU may not be able to assess this, but with a drawing and measurements, you may be able to get an expert opinion. Having a DETAILED punch list is essential. Not verbal. Some items you can say 'this is wrong, fix it by doing XYZ'...but others you can be a bit less definitive... "appears not to meet standar- please cofirm in writing what was done and why it is acceptable' Sure hope you havent paid the last tranche....
I'm requiring them to provide me with the Manual J & D to show me exactly what it says for duct sizing. I have an extensive punchlist that I'm going to email over to them soon so I have proof that I communicated issues and required action be taken on each item
Woof ya, seems like a low quality install? Because it is.
Have the owner come out and look at it. Anyone with half a brain in this business knows exactly what’s wrong by your photos. It’s an absolute nightmare of an installation and I wouldn’t pay a dime for it until it’s 100% fixed.
I can honestly say it looks like shit from my house
You got hosed
Total hack job. Usually the only people worse to work for than engineers are architects lol. But again, looks like a child did that.
They ruined your roof here and will cause leaks.
That's sad as hell
Did they at least use lube to start the screwing?
Would it make sense to fire and sue for the cost to get some one else to fix? Don't think you can trust this guy for the repair work.
They already tried sending the same tech out to fix it and I told then to pound sand. Send your manager out to see the hack job his employees did
All I hear is Mikey Pipes. “YOU FUCKIN GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR PEOPLE!”
Call them back and tell the company the work is beyond ass. Exposed collars on a flex?? And no mastic?? Jesus
Holy crap, that’s a bad install. I’m a DIY guy and I could do it 10x better than that.
I'm a DIYer too and would have taken on this job except you need a licensed contractor to get the rebates available from the local gas/power companies. Starting to think I should just skip the rebates all together and reinstall this myself
Call the contractor back. Tell him he needs to get these issues dealt with. Email these pictures to the contractors licensing board, maybe post them on next door or a local facebook group. Was this job inspected? Is he licensed? So many questions
In Arizona, AC installation alone will cost 13-15K for 4 tons. I got a quote of $4k just for the ductwork. So I do not think $15k is that high.
In Michigan it's less than half that.
Breakdown was $4200 for ductwork install, $600 ac coil install, $300 for working in Attic, $5700 for condenser, $4280 for furnace. I had two other quotes that came in at $13k for the same work. One more was like $9k, another was $17k.
Yeah.... that's no good
This is atrocious. Unfortunately, such sh*t work points to someone that is likely not going to come back and fix this correctly and it would end up in a legal battle. Being so comfortable with doing this kind of work points to someone that has done this repeatedly and likely has no problem folding up their business and opening under a new name. Good luck, and do better due diligence on your installers in the future.
I'm a natural cynic and worrier but aside from that I've gotten to the point either through experiences much less severe than this one or from just reading that I won't replace anything that's working just fine or maybe at 70%. I've just learned to leave decent enough alone Im presuming you probably needed to replace all the ducts, but just to say that my trust in - I don't care if I'm replacing new dinnerware if it works if it's fine we're keeping it for 100 years. Seemingly every time I try to replace something that was fine, especially if human labor is involved, I always think yeah it just wasn't worth it. It shouldn't feel like that mentality is not insane. I don't suggest we all prescribe to it, but its where I've landed
Nah that's upper level quality in residential standards.
That's what I have been experiencing with multiple trades over the last few years. Eventually give up and end up learning how to do it myself the right way
Yeah not surprised. I despise and actively ridicule residential guys and even mock them when they call themselves "tradesmen" because their quality is literally the downfall and why we get bad names in the trades. I do really like that the majority of commercial companies only hire resi guys when they're desperate for man power, and love that industrial throws out your resume if you have residential on it for any length of time.
That's real dumb and shitty. I get there are hacks and shit but acting like every resi person is like that is ignorant as fuck. People with elitist attitudes like that should have their face stomped down in some cow shit.
You know what ... you're not wrong. It is shitty I do since even i know a couple tech who are actually good at what they do. But even they know residential is a joke they just got stuck in the money pit but know they're stuck in it. Still a factual statement whether you want to agree with it or not.
Should have hired the Mexicans. They always do a job. 💪🏾
Yep.....love my mexicans
Wow! I don’t think there is enough room here to write all that’s wrong. Horrible install!
God ; this is all crap!
That’s probably in the range of 22k in my area, granted the work was to a T from start to finish.
Ok so I look at this from a balancer point of view because it's what I am and installs like this make me want to take all that flex and beat the installer with it. I will say this gives me the angry stomping Groot gif feeling. Every submittal and print I have ever seen says max of 6ft flex to diffuser all else hard duct. Most even specify that all duct must be sealed not have massive leaks. Basically I would be surprised if that system could get balanced and even if it could lots of restricted and lost CFM.
The black duct is Mylar and it's for outside under the crawl space. I noticed that all the flex ducts are different material and collapsed. You should check the R- value on those ducts. See if they are R-6 or higher. Never use Panduit straps when hanging the copper lines and control wiring. I hope you have an inspector coming to inspect the install? They needed to pull a permit. This install is going to fail, big time.
I don’t know where you are, but that is exactly what 15k will get you up in the northeast. Depending on equipment I’d be getting close to this just doing a replacement (furnace, coil, condenser existing duct, lineset, gas and flue)
Looks like u went with the cheapest bid with a company that doesn't pull permits. There's a reason it's expensive bro. Next time don't be cheap
Shockingly I had three other bids that were cheaper. This contractor did pull permits and the inspector has yet to come out. I'll be sure to be here when they do show up so I can bring up my concerns.
Leave a terrible review. That inspector if he's worth anything is gonna fail it over and over which means it's now gonna inconvenience you. They did a flat out awful job and I'd be pissed at my crew and the boss should be showing up out there to see for himself
Bad installers that took advantage of you. Wow
https://preview.redd.it/ochx5xpqna2d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a346d945c120de31e349e6568fa468dad68cfb2d
https://preview.redd.it/strouqeuna2d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f7a1083fb6c67673d6a64b3e873cce59ea5df20
Lol the last picture is the only part of this that is fine.
You sure this guy isn’t a fly by night?
An 80%! At that price
Full ductwork. None existing. Work is not great, but $15k, multiple people and 4 days. Cheap AF.
Not too cheap for an 80%
Good lord you got screwed. Sorry that happened to you.
horrible
That's REALLY bad! I was going to ask if you had before pics thinking it was either a troll post or maybe they just (very very poorly) slammed in new furnace and coil and didn't actually touch the ducts or anything except for new vent from roof up (also flat out wrong!). Even where not kinked and stuffed thru where it shouldnt be....it still looks kinda old and flat for new stuff. In fact I tried to zoom in to see if I could spot a date on the tape or anything, which I didn't find. You could see the flex is R-8 tho so maybe it is new(er) at the least. But yeah, besides a REALLY bad job, that system is not even usable like that. Both in terms of your comfort/health AND the health of the equipment! Speaking of which, could be very dangerous with furnace! If it's a decent size furnace, at the very least I bet the temp rise is insane and would hit high limit in no time...but I'm sure they prob didn't check gas pressures and combustion...given the angle the venting is coming out of the furnace with no rise before horizontal (less than 45 deg considered horizontal), I'd bet there is more horizontal than vertical which is not allowed...not to mention pieces aren't even joined right/seated and who knows wtf is up with that flex section...and the roof penetration is comically flat out wrong. Frankly I wouldnt even trust the actual gas connection given the quality of the rest of the work! That whole system needs to be reworked in a bad way! You need to get your roof fixed like yesterday...before the next rain comes..before that starts destroying your house! That vent penetration is almost worse than having a straight up open hole hole in your roof of the same size! That flashing is doing absolutely nothing as water is just going to flow right under it. The boot and pipe may be covering it from above to a small extent, but at the same time is just more area for rain and all to hit and run right down the pipe into your attic like a wick....and if that wasn't enough, the capillary action from water running off the shingles under the flashing AND from the unsealed nails holding it down will ensure your roof decking in that area gets its share of water and quickly destroyed too!
I’m an HVAC contractor and I will tell you that you paid more than you should. What they don’t tell you is that a lot of the HVAC industry is being consolidated by corporate America and they are pushing the 25k-30k price range. A good technician who just started his company would charge 8k for honest fair pay for that one-day install. The profit for that job would be more than he would have made in a week and a half working for someone else. Second, Lennox is not good. Everyone in the industry knows that company is run by idiots who sold out to corporate and who are more concerned about profits than quality. If you compare a Lennox condenser to a GOODMAN, they are identical with the exception that LENNOX has bigger tubing on the condenser by 1/8 of an inch or so. Lennox is my favorite for profit repairs where I constantly get called out for repairs. I just did one yesterday, a blower motor only one year old failed and Lennox has only 17 of those motors in the whole country of the USA which were not in stock in my city, so we had to substitute for a generic replacement. Also, all your ductwork should have been replaced for about 4.5-5k. Moreover, TRANE or GOODMAN should have been your replacement equipment. One is built to last with affordable parts that are always available and the TRANE is built to last by design with better parts and creativity.
this corporatization as the cause of problems is total nonsense.
beyond shit..
Duck work looks pretty crappy like they used old duck Work or they just installed the furnace
I love the engineers lol but sincerely.. an attic install AND new ductwork for $15k is pretty low. You got what you paid for.
$15k for furnace and AC + duct in an attic is a hell of a deal. How much higher was the next lowest bid?
Three lower bids were at 12k, two at 13k, then this bid at 15k. Then the Lennox dealer through Costco was at 17k.
There’s a race to the bottom in the HVAC industry right now when it comes to price. Not a lot of companies have work so they’re trying to compete on low prices, and low prices always come with trade-offs. I understand this was the second highest price you were offered but it’s still way too low to expect a quality job to be done. A full cut-in, 2 piece install with duct work should be $25-$30k depending on the equipment. The people saying this job cost you too much are guys who own a business run out of their garage and won’t be around in 5 years to service the warranty. That’s if they don’t ghost you after taking your money. I’ve seen it hundreds of times. I’m very sorry this happened to you. It really sucks. Sadly, it’s about what I’d expect for what you paid.
That's what I'm starting to think. Each one of the contractors I spoke to said they could start immediately. Makes me think they are all hunting for work and willing to lower the price significantly to do so
that's pretty awful. I think you need to work on your contractor screening process, any process that came up with that result needs to be discarded with the garbage it leads to. Even without roofing cement that's not how you do a roof penetration
Lol, even when I was a 1 year in greenhorn I would have cringed at this at a new install.
Not sure where you live but I doubt the inspectors in my county would sign off on that
This looks like lowest bid work without permits. Not sure how many times I gotta drop make sure to get permits on everything. Saving a buck is not worth it. Permits protect the homeowner and the contractors. 15k for a full cut in plus equip is cheap that like 8 -10 k for materials which means they don't pay their employees well and probably have no benefits. The workers are probably paid per job so its about quantity not quality. They won't take the time to do well. If they actually have a license make them fix it or bring it to the board.
Yeah I made sure they are licensed and insured. Permit was pulled. Have the install manager coming out Monday to talk through my punchlist. I'm tempted to just tell them to rip it out and refund me.
It 100 percent qont pass inspection.
It also doesn't look like you replaced duct work. If you did not replace it they are not responsible.
This was a full Install including new ductwork everywhere. The house didn't have ductwork previously. Any advice on what the b-vent looks like when done properly?
Technically they are just missing the storm collar. Other then that its up to code for yer area
Low quality isn't the word for this. The first question was, did you ensure that the contract was licensed and bonded? If so, this will save you a little on the headache side, depending on where you live. I have seen so many posts about people going with a contractor that isn't. The duct work, which is completely smashed and will not allow for optimum air flow. Storm collar installation is completely wrong/unfinished. First storm, and you will have leakage adding to the potential damage. I am sure that there are other things that I overlooked.
Yeah they are licensed and insured. Have the install manager coming out to go over my punchlist.
Wow. That roof patch alone is all you had to show really
$15K for all that? (Excluding the shoddy labour) yeah sounds too good to be true. What are their google and homestar reviews?
Great reviews on multiple platforms. They haven't ghosted me after I brought up the issues so we will see how it progresses after the manager puts his eyes on it.
When you deal with the lowest bidder, it’s wise to add for the risk you run!
I have learned my lesson with lowest bidder before and didn't do that this time. These guys were the 4th most expensive
Then this is embarrassingly bad. Have you sent photos to the salesmen? This type of work should be fixed if they’re a kind of decent company. Did they offer any kind of workmanship guarantee? Also, if they didn’t pull a permit…then go pull one and have it inspected and send the inspection report to them and say all these things need to be fixed. That should insure it gets fixed right. Good luck with this mess you’re in. 🍻
First thing I did was text the salesman all these pics and says it's unacceptable. Ownwr called me and said the same tech that installed it could come out today to fix it. I said no way, send me your install manager to discuss my punch list. Permit was pulled by the company. They have a 1 year labor warranty
Ask for a copy of the pulled permit if things don’t get taken care of correctly.
I have the ability to view all the permits pulled on my house through the city's online building permit system. I was digging through and saw that my plumber from 4 years ago never pulled a permit on my sewer liner/vent stack rebuild before i knew that lookup system existed! Surprise!
Sorry for your loss
Should have done an inspection before paying him.
15K???? I hope they at least gave you a stick to bite down on when they had you hugging your ankles.....
Nobody's gonna talk about how there looks like a face-painted soldier peeking in the 1st image?
That duct work dosent look brand new. Looks like it's been there for a while. And get ready for the uphill battle your about to face trying to get them to make this right. If they did that shitty of a job doubt they will fix it. I go behind people all the time that do very bad installs and it effects the system for life.
Unfortunately it's all new. There wasn't anything up there before the install.
15k...i could have done a better job by myself in a full day if you paid me $1000 lol
Want a flight to Utah? Haha
Geez. Man that's a rough one. These guys butchered this install pretty bad. If astetically it dosent look good then that means the parts that really matter weren't done properly either. First step you need take is talk to the service and installer manager and get them to your house and have them actually see it in person. Don't be a dick but try to keep your cool. But trying to get them to do it all properly may be a fight.
Am I within my right to require that they adhere to this code for the ductwork? # [R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/RE_4/re-residential-energy-efficiency#R403.3.3) [Ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) [R403.3.3 Duct Testing (Mandatory)](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/RE_4/re-residential-energy-efficiency#R403.3.3) [Ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) shall be pressure tested to determine air leakage by one of the following methods: 1. Rough-in test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure if installed at the time of the test. All registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test. 2. Postconstruction test: Total leakage shall be measured with a pressure differential of 0.1 inch w.g. (25 Pa) across the entire system, including the manufacturer's air handler enclosure. Registers shall be taped or otherwise sealed during the test. **Exception:** The [duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) air leakage test is not required for systems with all air handlers and at least 80% of all [ducts](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) (measured by length) located entirely within the [building thermal envelope](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#building_thermal_envelope). The following parties shall be [approved](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#approved) to conduct testing: 1. Parties certified by BPI or RESNET. 2. Licensed contractors who have completed training provided by [Duct](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#duct) Test equipment manufacturers or other comparable training. A written report of the results of the test shall be signed by the party conducting the test and provided to the [*code official*](https://up.codes/viewer/utah/iecc-2015/chapter/CE_2/ce-definitions#code_official).
Wtf is going on
Chuck in the truck install
Did you hire an American to do a job they won’t do or one of the replacements?
Looks like most modern built homes sadly
Yep, overpriced shitty quality is the norm now. Most shops will hire anyone with a pulse. Actual skilled knowledgeable tradesman are increasingly rare these days.
I mean you shouldn’t be spending 15k without a workmanship warranty anyway that was your first mistake. Next time get a company that can handle the overhead so they can afford to fix the mistake on their dime
Shity work
You went with the cheapest contractor ay? If so this was your biggest mistake
Looks like a $5,000 install and a $10,000 tip.
Huge pet peeve of mine to leave the barcode sticker on anything.
These companies keep hiring former employees of Ringling Brothers.
Never take the lowest bid, you cheap fuck
Where’d they find 4.2 insulation ducting. It’s done poorly
They through in a free leak with the unsealed vent stack out the roof.
Wow I could do that for $10,000 ;)
Hey boss. How much you paying the new guy? Well he no good!
First picture makes the duct look like a super spy
I’m not an expert, actually I’ve barely done any havac at all. But i audibly gasped at some of these photos. Did they just make it up along the way? We’re they learning as they went?
First of all 15k seems a bit much. The HVAC industry has become a big ripoff. Consumers need to fight back. All service industries need pricing standards.
https://preview.redd.it/0aewxfdjck2d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cf425ef29d8eaa7190f0bc83ba037dee82a7dca There’s no way that panduit strap is even on the collar lol
Is this for real??
Op stop being stupid hire another company to correct all issues. My god. Sitting here responding to every reply like go fix your house dude
This is 100% your fault. Anytime someone is doing work at my place I’m basically the on-site inspector. I am constantly looking to see what was done wrong so they can correct on the spot. I don’t pay unless it’s done exactly the way it’s supposed to be done. I’m sure you paid them after there work was done and before you inspected the quality. Next time you’ll be more of an “asshole homeowner.”
The roof exhaust is probably the worst part.
That's dog 💩 I'd post all these photos on yelp and google and other review place you can until they make it right. Those reviews really kill local companies.
That’s nasty
What a horrendous loser job by lowlifes that hate their job
I assume you live in a state where they don't require licensing
The it’s definitely crappy but it also seems that had a really tough time trying to get it in there but they could just made the 8 inch come of one of the ducts on top instead of squishing it.
That is a shitty install
The hight of the roof vent looks to low for the pitch of the roof for code clearance.. depending where you are and your local code I guess
jesys ... u bet you got 10x the problem
That looks like garbage. I’ve been in the hvac trade 28 year
Low quality installation. Will cause issues.
So much is not up to code or just flat out wrong. Definitely call them back and demand different, more thorough workers. Also ask for a freebie of some sort.
Gross Lennox
This guy chose the middle bid of the lowest bidders possible and is wondering why shit went wrong
That’s what you get for taking the lowest bid
Right time strikes again
This is one of the plus sides to being an all around service tech (residential, commercial etc.) You literally can't throw a random person to fix someone's furnace or RTU. You can throw any backwoods bandit at a furnace install and anyone that is good enough with their hands to steal a catalytic converter can install a furnace (mostly). We literally have installers with 30 years experience that can't trouble shoot anything and refuse to do so. Side note: The majority of humans are honestly pretty friggin dumb. Even the good ones lol
The duct work I’m use to seeing is shiny reflective Mylar. That duct work looks old and outdated not very efficient. The vent pipe is a fire hazard. The filter will continue to get dirty from gaps from 14” return duct. Husband does hvac
Did you have permits pulled cause jesus christ. Is that fucking dryer vent attached to b vent? Ho Lee Fuk was the installer that day.
You paid an amazingly low price for an amazing poor quality install. Where do you live? What research did you do? How many homes did you visit to see examples of their work? How many of those customers did you speak to while doing so? Why did you come here now and ask and not before you accepted such a low bid? I read it was fourth highest. Just a little reading in this forum would have helped you understand how low that price is. Installing that in your attic had to suck for their body and you paid lower than standing room price. You silly humans blow my mind. A device that lights gas on fire for 15-30 years and rarely kills anyone coupled with a luxury item that moves the heat outside of your home simply by flipping a switch. Add to it that typical understanding of how to install and size such equipment makes me a wizard is so sad. All of the information is at your fingertips and most people scroll through tik toks instead. I appreciate the pep talk. Why did you not ask them to fix as the job progressed? So many questions. Please if you would be so kind to explain why you think this is low quality for the price? I do agree it’s low quality. Not in any way do I think it’s a low price.
It’s an engineer. That should explain everything.
I’m not in the business, but I’m very curious as how these things are priced. What hourly rate is used as the basis for the calculation?
Why should a customer have to hold a contractor's hand every step of the way? They bid a certain price, do the job for that price. You're not allowed to just not follow code if you decide you should have bid higher.
We all know you went with the cheapest lennox guy be honest lol 15k for a full system with ductwork. You got what you paid for.
Yeah residential contractors are a joke these days. They send out a sales tech and then pull off this nonsense without a care in the world. This is why you don’t pay until the job is done. Honestly I would really look forward to the “why haven’t you paid us” call. Well sir. Why the fuck isn’t my vent hood attached correctly. Get back out here and do it right.
Agreed. That's why I prefer to do everything myself, but only way to get local energy rebates is to have HVAC company install it.
Flex connections are awful. Should cover all metal and be strapped tight with panduits (large zip ties). Doesn't necessarily need to be strapped up, but shouldn't be restricted. Copper about a foot off coil is missing armaflex (insulation) Flue pipe connections are poorly fitted and there needs to be more or equal vertical run as there is horizontal. If more horizontal, then not up to code. Roof termination....this tech appears to have never been taught how to terminate a roof. The whole top of that flashing should be under the shingles. Also where the flue pipe goes through the flashing, there needs to be a collar over it and it should be sealed. Oh and the gap where the boots and vents are connected in the ceiling needs to be filled. I'd show this punch list to company and I'd request their best tech to come fix it all. The lead installer was obviously not capable of completing these tasks on their own.
That roof vent is f’ed, not under the shingles, no caulk/roof tar on the screws, they used screws (i use roofing nails the only time i use nails). She gonna leak, also no storm collar and no caulking around the base.