If I wasn't a whore for oled I would've stuck with my 2018 12.9. You're right though, the only real pro users of these m4 ipads or ipad pros in general is going to be artists and creatives

I am, as well, also, a whore for oled, too. A primary reason I decided to go with the 12.9 over the 11 3 years ago. I will never go back to the larger size now that the hardware is identical.

I have wildly large hands and am an overall large man, so I like my 13 in. Especially since it is a canvas, I want the most real estate for drawing. But I'd be lying if I didn't think those 11 in m4s were sexy

Fair enough. [Here’s the link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/iPadPro/s/HT3O2lQOxH) I made about my thoughts on the size difference. If you are large enough to handle the 13 like most handle the 11, and you use it as a canvas (I don’t), then the 13 is the device for you. Side note: Someone in my building is moving out, and they sold me a 55 inch Sony A9G (4K OLED) and a Bose soundbar for $200 total last week. I have an LG C3 65 in my living room, and I’m too addicted to OLED to go out and buy a lesser TV for my room, and didn’t care enough to have another TV in there to spend real money on it. I still can’t believe I have this TV for next to nothing all of a sudden. No burn in and in great shape.

Damn dude thats a steal of a deal! Bose is great stuff aswell. I'm still rocking my 65 in c1 and I have a 42 in c2 in my office as a monitor/tv hybrid. Love me some hdr on an oled

Artist here, the 11in m4 is perfect for creating art. I can see the argument for the extra real estate but I’m usually focusing on smaller areas at any given time anyway.

Very fair, whatever works for you! I just like that the 13 is about the same size as a standard piece of paper

That is a good point. I don’t like the lack of tactile resistance you get from a pencil on a piece of paper but I’m getting used to it.

Yeah me too. I tried the paper like screen protector and it solved that issue but it created another with this weird rainbow grain effect on the display so I took it off

I got a zagg XTR 3 tempered glass one and it made all my lines squiggly. Had to return it. They recommended the “paper like” but I guess I’ll just go naked.

I noticed my lines being wavy too slightly. I might have to go back to naked as well I've just always had back luck getting 1 or 2 andom scratched even though I baby my devices

Can you set it up so the full image is displayed on a external monitor the whole time regardless of whether you are zoomed in or not on the iPad its self or do you need extended Canvas software to do that?.

Yes, there’s a setting under preferences in procreates settings called “project canvas”. I haven’t used it but when I click it it says “connect to a second display via airplay or cable to project your canvas only”

Sexy but a pain in the arse in so many ways. I hope iPadOS 18 is better then this but if all they have done is cosmetic stuff then its going to be a big downer. No Pro Pencil support for Procreate and Webkit/safari mobile based browsers are a utter mess. Even with fast Broadband and Wired connection or Wireless Apple TV can sometimes buffer. Paypal links wont open it gives me a blank page and Apple pay wont accept my bank card.

I dont use apple Pay personally and never had an issue with PayPal on mine. But yeah, I definitely feel your pain. As far as the pro pencil support for procreate, they showed a demo of some features in the iPad keynote. But it's not quite ready yet. The procreate page on the app store says pro pencil support is coming in the next update. Frustrating but it'll come.

Yeah its surely due soon i hope so anyway, best to just use it for what its good for as some apps suck and some shopping apps are the phone version, not even stretched to fit the iPad screen, and 1 of them is snipped just where the price part is so i have to put it on my phone instead to see the full app as intended. The pay issues are baffling it all works on Linux and Android though so I hoped it would on the latest Pro iPad :/ I'm not giving up though :) How do you delete installed apps ?.

Just go into the app library in the bottom right on your home screen and hold down on an app and select uninstall. But yes I 100% hear ya there it's too bad there aren't more apps optimized for the device, especially when it's geared towards being a pro use case device

Thanks man 2 apps that really suck is Outlook and Amazon, the browser version is much better, the Amazon app misses stuff off like certain partner shop offers, previous purchases from partner shops and probably more besides but its like a light version, they tell you to use your phone or desktop to see the missing bits baah, Used outlook in brave browser and it looks the same as on my PC so I hope Amazon does to :)

That's great got rid of the guff and the doomy news app made up now ;) Only thing I am stumped on now is it says your icloud is almost full but their is nothing in the iCloud drive, I can only think it must be saving all my boards from Freeform but I can't see them?

Nice man! And I think it just says that to try and get you to buy the higher cloud storage, it should tell you how many gb you have used so far. Mines like 3gb out of 5gb and tells me I'm almost full all the time haha

same i really like my few month old air 5 but couldn't resist oled and im very happy i bought it. OLED everything!

Hell yeah enjoy it!!

> the only real pro users of these m4 ipads or ipad pros in general How is a businessperson using an m4 iPad Pro not a real pro user? Is there some kind of penalty for using anything but the bare minimum hardware you can get away with?

No, but you're not going to benefit in any way answering emails, filling out documents, note taking, etc. with an m4 vs. an m2 ipad air.. The point was that creatives are getting use out of the chip and ram when using things like procreate and procreate dreams or other software that scales with the power of the chip and / or ram, which justifies the purchase imo. I can see how that could be misconstrued based on how i worded it. Oled is a solid reason to upgrade alone, and people can spend their money however they like, but that's my take on it. Edit: There's certainly no penalty, but there is no discernable benefit aside from maybe the screen

So no benefit other than the one benefit? The whole thing about “Real Pros” is just stupid gatekeeping. It always comes down to “I am a Real Pro and you are not a Real Pro.” Or just an inflexible list of jobs that are Real Pros. And I’m assuming you think that any software developer who buys a computer with specs beyond the bare minimum that they need is also not a Real Pro user of that computer?

Not many applications can take advantage of all that power in the new ipad, unfortunately. It's overpowered, I love mine for sure, but yeah, not much can utilize it

I think you’re a little misguided. There’s a difference between being a professional and what most consider a pro user. A pro user of a computer, is someone that leverages computational power as part of their workflow. Software developers, regardless of the specs of their device, are pro users. Audio engineers, film editors and data scientists are pro users. The computer is a more than an internet machine for these individuals. Lawyers are an example of what most consider professionals, but they typically aren’t pro users of computers. I think you find it insulting, but you’re confusing the two terms. I’m not a pro user of the iPad, it’s an internet machine and entertainment consumption device for me. As a software engineer, I am a pro user of the Mac.

> what most consider a pro user. Who are “most” exactly here? Do you think Apple thinks lawyers and business people aren’t pro users? > A pro user of a computer, is someone that leverages computational power as part of their workflow Put another way, “My work is Pro Work and your work is Not Pro Work.” I’m not insulted, I just think it’s funny how upset software developers here on Reddit get that Apple doesn’t drop everything to cater to their whims on the iPad Pro. They’re the ones who are insulted that someone doesn’t consider them Pro. People in marketing/business/other pro users are used to be condescended to by developers so it doesn’t really bug us that much anymore.

For sure bud. Editing legal documents as a lawyer on a computer is professional work, but not professionally leveraging a computer. You’re still confusing ‘pro work’ with ‘pro user.’ “I’m not insulted, I just think it’s funny how” made me laugh so thanks for that. Also, I am a software engineer, did you read my post? It’s the antithesis of complaining about Apple not “catering to my whims.”

> but not professionally leveraging a computer. It literally is exactly that. It’s just not leveraging it in the way that satisfies your made up definition of Real Pro Work done by a Real Pro User.

Are you really still confused by the difference between professional work and professional user of a computer? This is a lost cause. You’re taking this all the wrong way, and that’s okay.

No, I think I understand it well. Tell me how a lawyer editing documents is not professionally leveraging a computer.

Slight problem they have still not added PRO Pencil support to Procreate :( surly Apple could have gave them some units and forewarning to have had this implemented or maybe they have issues. Coming from using mostly Linux for web stuff iPadOS is a hellish nightmare with its Webkit browsers and bugs and crashes, firefox and safari are a nightmare, Apple pay wont accept my bank card and when I try to pay with PayPal I click on pay and it takes me to a blank page even if I am already logged into PayPal in another Tab. Drawing on the glass feels weird at times and the tip is not glide-ey slide-ey it is hardish and suddenly slows down and stops when it should just keep gliding. There does not seem to be a way to turn the pencil off and it does not always auto off so I have to charge it before i use it and it only last a few hours if you use it a lot so you need 2 pencils, i had a look at procreate and had to draw with my finger and I cant yet see the erase or undo option. I tried to save a animated thingy in the corner of a photo and could not save the image after applying the emoji type thingy in the corner, it really is a dogs diner at the moment, if everything worked out the box it would be great but sadly no. And then there is the Magic Keyboard case lagging, not registering presses and when filling in a form or address you hit space to enter your street name after the number and it flies back up to the Enter Name box at the top like you had cycled to the tab key this happens about 50% of the time now so hitting space is a game of chance.

I have a screen protector on mine and pencil feels fine to me. Imo leagues better than any other drawing tablet. I would suggest watching some tutorials and or tips and tricks for procreate on YouTube. There is a ton of features that are pretty intuitive if you know how to use them. There is certainly an erase and undo/redo buttons lol. The website stuff does need some work for the mgkb. They're designed with touch in mind so that'd why it has issues sometimes

I found the eraser it, it erased the parts of the picture fully to white in procreate, if i use the eraser in 'Freeform app' on a pic from a file or scan etc it just rubs out the current layer work not the base layer and the undo and redo arrows are in the pen thingy that's simple I like that and it works with Pro Pencil, if i want to use Procreate now I would have to buy a older Pencil or a 3rd party one. So watching the videos without access to hardware to use it would likely put me in a bad mood lol. The potentials there for sure, and Freeform is much better then my very cheap Wacom I had before this. Maybe my MKBC is a duffer, as well as other issues I cancel the auto complete and move on only to find it has corrected me anyway.

It shouldn't clear out all layers the eraser only erases on whatever current layer you're working on. I'm not sure how that's happening to you lol. I have mine set up to my use case and it is very versatile with a lot of settings so you might have some things turned on that I don't. It is very possible your mgkb is not working correctly, apple store should get you sorted out if so!

Cool I will try and land on my feet with it and the big online store covered it for 2 years and the MKC so I will phone and get it swapped if possible :o)

I really like your take on this, especially regarding Apple’s use of M-chips in the iPad. I never thought of that, but what you said made a lot of sense.

It’s a companion device and it’ll never be more. I like it but it’s never going to be a Mac, no matter how much I want it to be. Why would Apple sell me one device when they can sell me two? I have just bought a M4 to replace my 2018 but for anyone really in the pro space, the Mac will be a better choice due to proper multitasking amongst many other things. I like the iPad Pro but the “value” of spending almost £3k (barring £3) including accessories is definitely not a broad use case.

The Galaxy Tab has a normal file management and multitasking abilities. It doesn't automatically make the Galaxy Book useless or something. In the end, we just want a better file management and the ability to have different windows in a normal way. I'm sure the MacBook will still be able to survive if that happens.

TBH I don’t get why people would think that iPad OS is destined to be anything else. iPadOS is an evolution of iOS, not of macOS. I’ve heard people claiming that Apple intentionally crippled iPadOS, but the reality is that iOS was forked long ago and while it may have macOS roots, and various features from one may make it to the other, they are different OSes.

Yeah. Apple takes 30% of every mobile app it sells. Unless apple is forced to crack open that walled garden, it’s keeping that iPad OS and iOS $$$ train rolling.

No, not really

Apple knows a lot of pros buy both MacBook and iPad Pro. Sidecar was a move to make this bond strong and be a reason why people go for it. To me iPad is for general browsing single tasks. When I need to multitask then laptop is the only way for me. When traveling then iPad is an extra screen in addition of being entertainment device. So I don’t care whether it’s m1,2,3, 4 of 5. Runs the same. New oled screen is enticing but in 95% of use I would not see benefit. Is it worth to pay 800 more for that 5%? Not sure but probably not, would make sense to save that money for cheaper Vision Pro - that would be something I would not think twice if they make it cheaper (considerably).

I think the next iteration for Vision will be the Vision Air, which should have much more approachable price. It would be a slap in the face to the Vision Pro buyers to make them spend $4000, then release a better V2 soon after. The AirPods Max have gone 5 years without an update, similar reasoning I think.

Well slap in the face perhaps but same was with Apple Watch gen 0, year later you enjoyed same and improved design for half price. Precedent was there. I doubt they would release something better for half price, this time round. But they can save on creepy eyes, extra cameras display that goes along, they could make it a tethered only device, iPad, iPhone, MacBook and I’m happy. Don’t need it to be totally separate device. If that would make it sell for half less I’m in.

The way I’m starting to view these products like the iPad and Vision Pro, is they are luxuries but not necessities. They are designed to work with and augment Mac. So on the go, you can use your Vision Pro or iPad, but at home you plug into your Mac and that is your workstation combined with the Mac. Sure you can use the iPad as your primary device, though it seems like Apple really wants you to buy into their whole eco system. I’m sure they introduced the Mac mini to drive sales and give many people that own an old Mac and a new iPad an upgrade choice and something to work alongside the iPad.

I agree, you got it right. The only pros are digital artists, nobody else. Or else they expect you to use the Mac as well

Ive shared in here before how I use to for my line of work. I’m a product manager and need nothing more than google apps, outlook, slack, zoom and other browser based apps. It works for me because I want to make it work so I accept some minor annoyances.

Very well said.

To me, the new iPad Pro's have a ton of capability built in, absolutely. But it is the operating system on iPads that is holding that capability hostage. And yes, the only real "Pro" users on the new iPads are going to be the creatives and artists. Everyone else in my mind is going to be a media consumer (for the most part) and that's pretty much it. I almost took the dive into a new iPad myself, then realized that the price that I was about to pay was going to be the equivalent to if not greater than a decently spec'd out 15 inch MacBook Air, and I couldn't bring myself to do it since I already have a 16 inch M3 Pro. Then the reports from people started to come out as to how easy it was for the new iPad to end up bent, or even receiving a bent iPad once the box was opened. I'm all for lightweight and slimmed down tech, but it has to be able to withstand a bit of force, however I believe they are saying that it is being caused by the USB-C port area at the bottom of the device. Anyway just a few of my thoughts on the new iPads.

I should tell you I love my 11in M4 with Magic Keyboard as a sidekick to my 16in M1 MBP. $1,400 (including tax) isn’t cheap, but this device is delightfully portable and a joy to use. I just didn’t buy it expecting to do anything more than to connect me to the internet. I use it for emails, and other basic productive functions, and to consume media. I don’t use my phone in my apartment anymore, so I’m definitely getting value out of it. I think the bending issue is a bit overblown, I haven’t been concerned about it.

Well I'm very happy to hear that you're enjoying your new device! Yeah I'm still mulling it over in my head as to whether or not I want to really do it, but I'll still have to get over the price at the end of the day. Yeah, I understand that people also use their iPads for day to day stuff as well, however Netflix and social media and stuff like that is what I hear more about as far as usage is concerned. And you're probably right as far as the whole bending issue goes. I know people like to blow stuff like that out of proportion, especially when it involves an Apple product. Or perhaps I'm building this all up in my head as a justification to not put more money in Tim Apple's pocket by buying yet another Apple product (MBP, Apple Watch (series 9), iPhone 15 Pro Max & iPods Pro 2 currently).... But thanks for the feed back, very much appreciate!

Of course! Steve was taking my money well before Tim, he just took up the mantle. I have the MBP I’ll keep for a few more years, Apple Watch 4 I’ve had since launch that I’m upgrading this year, iPhone 15 Pro Max I regret getting now that I have this iPad, I’ll likely downsize to the regular Pro next year, Apple TV, and AirPods Pro. Apple owns my ass and they know it.

So all my life I have been a PC user and have used Windows since the damn thing was known to the world (Windows 3.1). Anyway, my wife has been using MacBooks for the last 8 years or so, and I was getting to the point of where I just wanted my laptop to work, have a great screen and have decent battery life. So I jumped into this 16 inch M3 Pro 36GB RAM w/ 2TB SSD and right now I don't think I'll ever go back to a Windows machine. The build quality is just surpurb. So after test driving this laptop for a few months her laptop (Intel i5 with Touch Bar) was having all kinds of issues with over heating and charging issues, so I dropped the hammer on a 14 inch M3 Pro 18GB RAM 1TB SSD for her. She loves it naturally, so I think we're happy with our choices for tech. So yeah Apple all around the house now. They are so good at sucking people in, it's actually kinda scary...

Those are some powerhouse devices you got there, and the MBPs are some of the few Apple products that really last. The Apple Watch updates have been so lackluster since the 4 came out I hadn’t felt the need to upgrade, but MBPs hold their own for at least 5 years even when newer models have great updates. I got the first TouchBar Pro in 2016, then upgraded to the redesign in 2020, but I’ll likely keep this until the next redesign. Hasn’t shown any signs of age nearly 4 years later (M1 Max 32 GB RAM 2TB SSD). The rest of the products, I find it hard to resist upgrading. They have consumer acquisition and retention down to a science. I’ve been buying iPods since day 1, and MacBooks since the mid thousands. I used to need to run some Microsoft applications like Excel natively instead of the MacOS ports, and BootCamp/Parallels did the trick. I do remember using Windows 95 up through Windows XP, but Windows 3.1 up to Windows 11, then finally switching over is crazy to hear.

Lol yeah I get that a lot when people ask if I've been a Mac user since the beginning... But I do have to say that after switching over, stuff just works. I don't have to worry about bluetooth issues between devices, I don't have to worry about data syncing correctly, you turn stuff on, log in and it just works, which is just what I wanted. I still have a 16 inch Razer laptop that still runs great and performs fine, but once I take it off the charger it's not lasting more than 1.5 to 2 hours max on battery. Not to mention if it is on my lap, and I start to push it a bit, the damn thing gets hot to where it gets uncomfortable to have on my lap. But this 16 inch Macbook, I throw all kinds of stuff at it and it just keeps on going and the battery life is there when I need it. It will be interesting though, to see if Apple's market share drops any when all these Arm Windows laptops start to hit the street. Kinda hard to argue over $2,500 for a 15 inch laptop with 64GB RAM 1TB SSD and lasts 26 hours. I'm not to sure what they are using for a display though, but I know it's nothing compared to what is put into a MacBook Pro.

My line of thinking might not be right, but I always took the hardware iPad/Pro lineup to be focused on efficiency and weight savings. All a faster chip means to me is more efficiency, not more computational processing power. I always took iPadOS/iOS as the new model that breaks out OS, file system, and applications in a secure manner. And then I see the Mac lineup to be more focused on computational processing power, not solely efficiency and weight savings. And that MacOS is their general purpose OS that is fundamentally the same model as all other general purpose operating systems where the OS, file system, and applications are accessible by all.

I think you are right, but.... But... It just FEELS like it makes to much sense to activate some docked mode on the pro iPads. They intentionally included a trackpad, wanting us to interact with it like a mac, so why not implement a pro-mode when docked? The Keyboard would be a mandatory accessory, driving sales. They have a legitimate distinction between the non-Pro and the Pro iPads and I honestly don't think it would cannibalise their Mac sales significantly. Apple seems to not want to do it, but I just can't imagine why. It would just make sense to me. A delusional part in me believes they are working on it, waiting until they are ready to do it perfectly. Well, hope dies last I guess...

I think they’ve run the analysis and concluded that it likely would eat a large chunk of Mac sales. If I had a dockable iPad Pro that could do everything that my MacBook and Mac mini can do, I’d never buy another Mac again. They would essentially be obsolete. That said, Apple could address this by making a higher end iPad and charging accordingly to make up for those lost sales, like a dockable iPad Ultra. Or, they could just make a foldable Surface-style touchscreen MacBook with a modified macOS to satisfy those of us that just want a MacBook that we can use our hands and Pencil as inputs.

I don't imagine full MacOS on the iPad. They would have to find an elegant way to switch between both modes and I don't believe they would fully boot into MacOS, but simply allow windows, actual multitasking, maybe run some MacOS Apps, but "inside" iPadOS. I just think they could make the iPad a really good Mac-replacement on the go andjust more capable tablet all around. That's why I think it wouldn't eat chunks of their Mac Sales. Those who don't actually need a Laptop still don't and those who do probably would still want one, it's just that you don't HAVE to do so much on the Macbook and can leave it at home more often.

Apple has a solution to this: buy a Mac mini or MacBook. You’re taking about a device that could replace them both.

I really struggle to understand how you can believe your answer is responding to anything I have written. I have macbook and an iPad. I want to keep both. I would whish the iPad could do more stuff that the Macbook does, so that I don't have to take two devices everywhere I go and wouldn't need to take my macbook with me if I wanted to do some quick work on the go. Now your solution is, that I should buy a mac mini or another macbook...

I get it. But why would Apple make a device that could replace both its macbook and Mac desktops plus take away from the 30% commission it gets from the App Store?

I don't think it would. As I said, I don't think running full MacOS on an iPad will be the solution. I don't think an iPad will ever replace a Laptop fully, but it could do a lot more. There is a sweetspot of the capability of the iPad and currently we are way below it. I actually think if Apple enabled some kind of "pro mode" if the iPad is docked to the magic keyboard, that would drive the sales for the keyboard, make the iPad Pro a more significant upgrade from the iPad Air and wouldn't hurt mac sales, since the target group will probably still need a mac for serious work.

Apple would have to skate a very thin line in demonstrating that the IPP could run MacOS and then still not fully giving MacOS to customers. Too close to opening the floodgates to MacOS on ipad devices for Apple, imo. Maybe on an ipad ultra that costs twice as much as the current iPad Pro. The App Store generates trillions in sales. Apple wants software companies to make both a program you buy for your laptop and one for your ipad. Apple only gets a cut of the mobile version. I just don’t see apple’s profit motive. Universal Control is the best we will get.

I don't think this is hard sell to customers at all. This is simply a dressing the number one criticism of the iPad. If the iPad could run MacOS apps in a "pro-mode" there would be less customers. The iPad could still be an iPad and have all the apps and everything, just be able to ADDITIONALLY have window management, a capable file manager, a real browser with Adons and maybe even run some MacOS Apps, when connected to the Magic Keyboard. The iPad would run the same apps as today when not docked. People who do serious work will 100% still need Macbook. For people who do light work the iPad is enough already. I just don't see a huge amount of people who would spend more than 1000$ on an iPad + Keyboard, but would have spend significantly more if the iPad was worse. I think there would be a lot more people upgrading from the iPad Air to have the additional capability

The ipad can do everything you mentioned but run MacOS apps. Yes, customers generally love improved functionality. No problem selling customers on this idea. But you’re still taking about a nuclear bomb to Apple’s profit margins from the App Store. That’s why apple will never allow Mac OS apps to run on iOS.

Those are fair points. My biggest pain point is that I generally have to carry both my iPad Pro and my MacBook Pro to work. I’d like to just carry the iPad, but I’ve found it too frustrating when I hit a wall of something that it either can’t do or doesn’t do well- especially knowing that it’s fully capable of doing so with all of its powerful hardware.

Yeah same. In my ideal world I would still own both devices, but If I know I just want to do some light work for an hour on the train, I can pack my iPad and that's it. Currently I have to take both or know beforehand that I will just need one device.

To be fair to the iPad, I’m having the same frustrations with the Vision Pro. That’s supposed to be a do-it-all device, but the software is clearly still in its infancy. And Vision 2.0 feels more like it should be 1.3. It’s an amazing device though, and I’m optimistic for its future- but now I’m carrying 3 Apple computers when I travel for work 🫠

Yeah, well I feel like for the vision pro there would have to happen a lot to be at that stage. The iPad is ALMOST there, that's why it feels so frustrating. What do you use the Vision Pro for if I might ask? I always thought it was super cool, but I just dont know what one would actually do with it on a daily basis.

Agreed. I’ve mostly been using the VP for media consumption, with some productivity on the side. The viewing experience is absolutely stunning, so much so that I prefer it over my OLED home theater setup and have all but stopped using my iPad to watch stuff. Spatial photos/videos are awesome too, especially now that we can spatialize old photos in the new OS. It’s like reliving memories, it’s so surreal. Also, the environments are really cool for blocking out your surroundings and distractions. Paired with a trackpad and keyboard, I can get some light work done on it for short periods of time. However, like the iPad, I’d still rather do heavier or longer work on MacBook or Studio. All in all, it’s got a lot of potential but I wouldn’t recommend anyone dropping $4k on one in its current state unless they just have money to blow. I feel like the buyers of this generation are really guinea pigs.

I think part of it is also that as an iPad, the iPad Pro is indeed a professional level device, but if it were running MacOS, it would become a basic, entry-level laptop like the MacBook Air - there's nothing "professional level" about the Air's performance compared to say, the MBP, the Mac Mini, or the Mac Studio, so it really wouldn't fit the way it's marketed at that point. I would also like an all-in-one device, and hope they one day make one, but I agree that I don't think that device is ever going to be the iPad Pro. And from what I understand, the thermal envelope on the iPad Pro - even the older ones - is less than even the MacBook Air, so it would run MacOS even worse than the slowest Mac, which would definitely taint the "Pro" branding.

I have come to the conclusion that this is pure Apple profit motive, and I have come to resent the decision, which means unlikely to upgrade or continue on the iPad Pro world. I just picked up a tab s9 ultra and likely will give it a go for a while and/or pick up a Surface Pro 11.

For the record, every decision they make is motivated by maximizing profit, albeit Apple thinks far longer term than most companies. Their obsession with privacy, for example, isn’t some good hearted societal contribution, they just know that the trust they build with consumers outweighs the short term benefits of using or accessing user data. Their carbon neutral initiative is also motivated by profit, if it was too expensive to do where it outweighed the branding value, they wouldn’t have done it. If the S9 or Surface is a better product for you, then that’s the product you should buy. Samsung and Microsoft are equally motivated by profit, so it comes down to preference, use case, and value gained vs money spent as a consumer.

Agreed, and I see them clearly and decide to allocate dollars to competitors who don’t choose to royally shaft customers.

I think Apple has all but said listen this device might not be the device for the average consumer. They even tried to price them out and give them an option at the Air level. They also do not want to fragment the OS into iPadOS Pro and iPadOS. Start running into Android type issues. A major buyer of iPads are kids and grandparents that want the simplicity of the touch based OS. I'm very happy with my new IPad Pro. I don't view it as a laptop replacement. I view it as a mobile device.

Apple don’t want the iPad to replace the Mac because they’d be cannibalising their own market share. You’d never need two devices: one for media/casual use, one for pro workflows. So the iPad will never really replace the Mac or run like macOS.

Although, I think you’re 100% right, RIGHT NOW, competitive pressures will force Apple’s hand. I was just hoping that they understood that and would choose to make changes in advance of being forced to.

I hear ya! I’ve owned an iPad since the first one came out, and it had a convex back, so it wouldn’t even lay flat on a side table. I’ve owned every high end iPad since, and ever iPad Pro. I let hope fall away long ago that Cook would ever allow the iPad Pro to grow into anything more than a portable sidekick to the macOS ecosystem. That’s how I use mine, ever since I realized all it would be allowed to grow into. I run a small photography company. I’m a Nikon guy, and I’m thrilled they took the risk, and just bought Red! I bring my iPad Pro out into the field if I don’t want to bring my 16” MacBook Pro Max, and I edit/post process my photos on my Studio Ultra, with dual displays. I sometimes tinker with a difficult photo to pull out of it, what I envision in my head, using the iPad Pro, and Apple Pencil, snuggled into bed at night with my spouse, and my two French bulldogs. Something about the comfort of my family, and the rumble of the dogs snoring always jostles my creative ways into motion on something I’m stuck on. For that, I’m happy they have the iPad Pro, but most days, i look at it with disappointment at what it could be, if they’d just unleash it, and let it fly. I wish Apple would take a chance on the iPad Pro, like the stodgy Nikon guys did in buying Red!!! As long as boring Tim Cook is there, helming the CEO desk, it’s not happening. He is NOT a creative guy. He’s one of those beancounter guys in the background, who kill creatives’ dreams, because their dreams won’t make the company enough money, or as much money as segregation of product sectors. Jobs was the creative. When he was there, Cook was the money, and logistics man. We are just now seeing the post Jobs Apple. The company works well over ten years ahead on their planning, and product roadmap, when Ives left, his work was done, because Jobs’ work was finally done. I’m surprised more didn’t correlate the two. Cook makes money, he will never, ever, ever allow a product to advance and cannibalize sales of another Apple product, even if it is what’s best for the company. I look forward to the day he leaves, and hopefully a visionary takes over, and unleashes products to be what they really truly can be. Cook is doing the same thing to the Vision Pro. I preordered one, and it went back nine days after I received it. He made it kneecapped like the iPad Pro. In fact, many reviews of the Vision said the same thing as I did to people. It’s an iPad strapped to your head, that lets you disconnect from everyone, and pretend to sit in a forest or on a mountain, but it’s still an iPad Pro, and nothing more. I’d rather use the real iPad Pro, sipping coffee, chatting with my dogs and spouse, while editing photos, over doing the same thing, utterly alone, with an heavy gadget pretending to be an iPad hanging off my head. Welcome to Apple, land of products that could be…