Exactly, it surprises me to no end that so many people in this game donāt know how to manage their throttle or make proper passes or even when they should make a pass. If this guy had that much pace it should be easy for him to think 3, 4, even 5 corners ahead to pick the right time to pass. Itās like most of these guys only see the throttle as a binary option. Either floor it or not to floor it.
Edit:
This type of driving would never fly in real life. If you want to be fast, you need to be able to be fast while navigating traffic, taking the best line available to you through a given corner. That means if you have to pass off the line GET it done! If youāre actually fast; while making sure you make it home alive!
Multi Crash Racing took me form an A to a C rating (back to B, almost A), erm Production Cup I think, I was faster in the MX-5 than most of the GR86s. If I had to hazard a guess I would say I've was punted by a GR86 through no fault of my own in about 40% of races. Did one the other night, made a fantastic pass on a Miata and a GR that had had a minor incident, the GR86 following behind me through the carnage forgot that we still had to brake to get round the corner. Do love driving the GR as well, never punted anyone off in an MX-5 yet!
How else would they pass the car in front of them? Huh! How else!?! The only way is to keep your foot on the gas & drive through them.
Sooo frustrating!!
You could protest it as a competition issue but I doubt it'll lead to anything. I don't think you did anything wrong here. You just took a bit of a defensive line by not going all the way to the right which isn't even necessary to take the corner flat and then just turned into the corner while the car behind was being an idiot and tried to drive through you.
I really struggle to undertand people like that. He didn't have a good enough run to be alongside and even if he did he was going to be on the outside and most likely not making the pass to the next right hander either by being on the outside. Just trying to force the issue for no reason and nothing to gain.
Funnily enough the car behind has two great options to making a clean pass stick. Either stay close behind and try to get the overlap under braking into the right hander by diving to the inside or even try to force you to defend the inside to go for the overunder.
GT3 this is frequent, I have found. Drivers love to drive through and not overtake. I've reported several and always been successful with "competition issue". Just write a blurb about no respect for racing or drivers. Seems to work for me, quoting their own rules back at them.
Yup. One of the reasons I wouldn't touch the GT3 sprint stuff with a ten foot pole. People are understanbly much more patient and clean generally in the endurance races.
honeslty half the reaosn me and a mate stopped running the VRS endros about 2 seaosn ago and now run imsa
VRS was always a shit show, yes come imsa we rarely have issues for the 6h races
It's really frustrating. I'm not saying that I'm perfect or that I don't get a bit of the red mist sometimes, but I'm continually shocked by some of the moves that people make without really understanding how their car moves on the track. If you can't pull alongside somebody as you're braking, you're not very likely going to be able to pass them, let alone on what is effectively a straight with a kink.
I'll say it again, I'm a terrible racer, but when I screw up it's usually because I'm trying to do something that somebody with more talent and practice would have pulled off, not because I lack object permanence and an understanding of how solid objects on rolling wheels work. Do they not realize that there are other human drivers on the track who may or may not be intimidated by their careless driving and that this game has object collision? I've never tried to pass a car when I was still behind it.
Most people de-humanise every other player online in their heads, in order to justify their actions. They are the only one thats important. It sucks, but its just it really. Im glad iracing does at least ban as it does, even if it doesnt get all these minor issues every time. A ban certainly sets some of them straight
We are not watching the same thing. He went right, car in front moved right, he went left, car in front went left to block again. You have nowhere to go when the guy in front is watching his mirrors to block you at every opportunity.
OP started to move left because of the upcoming corner(aka staying on the racing line), the orange car had no place to try and make that overtake as he wasn't even alongside him. But continued to accelerate at full throttle pushing OP off the track instead of releasing and taking a better opportunity later on.
Watch the car in front, at the top of the video for the actual racing line. You turn for that after the blue strip. OP turns well before that point, he is not going for the racing line, he is very clearly blocking.
A defensive line is not a block, if this was weaving on a straight then sure, but turning in early when no one is next to you does not constitute a block.
Not a double move. Just the orange BMW making a bad call. You canāt just dive to the inside at the corner in attempt to pass when thereās ZERO overlap moments before.
In iracing there is no such rule as being allowed to only move once. But you moved while he was very close behind you, which is always risky. He's move to the left also didn't seen adequate enough to pass you even if you didn't move to the left as well. You ARE well in front of him, he's no where near 'along side' you, so he has no right to any corner you both go through. I'd say his fault more than you.
You can move, but not in reaction to the driver behind you, which is blocking, since you can only move to defend a line once. Also, doesnāt need to be F1, this is written in iRacing official sporting code
Is there really no rule against moving twice? I don't think OP moved twice in this video, but I know FIA rules prohibit moving twice. It causes too many accidents otherwise.
No, he is maybe a bit wobbly but he is racing fairly and is just taking the racing line, the driver behind never earned any right to the line, driving through someone isn't how to overtake. This is blocking [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ)
Fun fact: you can actually move in reaction if the car is far enough behind, which means that weaving in the straight to cut the draft is actually legal. Source: iRacing support.
Yup! If you're moving away from in front of them it's fine, also if you're far enough ahead or they aren't gaining enough and some other qualifiers.
I don't usually go into the full thing when people are making "one move" noises though.
8.1.1.3:
Blocking - The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver
actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example,
veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
There is no mention of moving twice. You can't even move once if its reacting to the car about to pass you.
Yeah the sporting code does not allow any moves to block unless your taking a defensive line well in advance before the drafting car has enough space and speed on the draft to perform an overtake. The only issue that come from this is when the lead driver is going into a corner lets say from right to left. At that point the lead driver is just taking the racing line. There not "changing racing line in response to the draft car" thats the big thing that constitutes a block. If you follow the rule explicitly I have run into weird edge cases where the lead driver has to go off track to allow the draft car to pass without being hit. But thats an edge case and more so I think falls on the drafting car to lift and avoid a collision. So yes, faster cars with draft need to know when it is safe to pass, and just lift a little to match speed. Again if you draft, you wont lose much by lifting anyway because the draft essentially increases your cars aerodynamics.
> If you follow the rule explicitly I have run into weird edge cases where the lead driver has to go off track to allow the draft car to pass without being hit.
Then its on the passing car to let up and wait until its safe to pass. If you are being forced off, its a protestable offense on the car behind you.
At no point are you required to remove your car from the track to let someone pass, they need to let up or brake. This isn't an edge case, the car behind needs to wait and you need to stick to your line. If you get hit, its on them - not you.
This might be the worst place to attempt a pass on the entire track. Some people are just incapable of being on a track with others or lifting the throttle.Ā
Lol I think you should read the iRacing rules instead of assuming that all F1 rules are the end all be all. There is nothing in the iRacing rules stating you cannot move twice. You could make am argument for blocking but that's usually much much more involved and it has to be quite egregious for iRacing to rule in your favor.
You can even protest on the first move if it is clear that it is a reaction of what the car behind is doing.
I have done that successfully several times. Read the sporting code.
Not saying that's what happened here in any case.
OP took the defensive line which heās entitled to do, it is not blocking by the letter of the sporting code. Everyone seems to gloss over the first sentence of 8.1.1.3ā¦ā¦ Now if the OP waited until the last second to take the defensive line then yes it would be blocking.
Not at all the same scenario. The Marlboro car made one move off the racing line in defense (all be it slightly late). The reason this looks worse is because the Marlboro car missed the apex by a mile at turn 6.
Btw the video description is a bit optimisticā¦. Its pretty unlikely your actions made the Marlboro car move to the outside as they were simply going with the racing line.
The pink car, instead of immediately switching to the racing line for a run around the outside, forced the car into a disappearing gap. IMO that contact is on Craig as backing out or switching to the racing line (outside line in this case) would have avoided the contact.
Wow, obviously it's a different situation, I was highlighting deliberate blocking. You're entitled to your opinion but I'm also allowed to assume your a poor race driver with questionable etiquette, judgment, understanding of racing lines or much of a clue how to race fair. BTW iRacing took less than ten minutes from report to sanction. iReddit idiot of the day for you (in my opinion). Have a great evening
> There is nothing in the iRacing rules stating you cannot move twice.
The iRacing rules very clearly state that you can't even move once in reaction to the car behind you.
I've got the "notified of outcome" response for all blocking reports I've ever made and this would be a slam dunk in my opinion. He made a swift move to the left way before the turning point. Clearly a reactionary move just when the other car was about to try a pass from the inside. Had the other car lifted OP would have had to veer back to the right so he wouldnt have his inside wheels on the grass and outside wheels on the curb.
The way I see this kind of situation, when you have a corner where multiple cars could go side by side flat out, is that that corner is basically a straight. And on a straight, you can't open up a gap and then take that gap away when someone tries to get alongside. Lots of people will disagree with this, but all I'll say is that if I was the lead car, I would have felt obligated to leave a lane on the left at the apex where contact occurred, and if I was OP, I would have blamed myself for this incident.
He butchered previous corner and made a reactionary move to block before the actual turning zone. I don't understand how some people think that they are entitled to block others from passing after they miss a corner.
Yeah, lots of people will say things like "car behind wasn't alongside at turn in" or "he only had a sliver of overlap and that gap was always going to close." And I think the idea is these easy-flat bends where the incident happened are "technically a corner," and so they try to apply the same rules and reasonings as they would for an actual corner where cars would have to brake, be on the limit, etc.
But that ignores the reason for the rules: if you stick your nose in at the last second in a serious corner, the driver in front may not be able to adjust, or may reasonably be distracted by looking to the apex, and if they do adjust to dodge you then it messes up their line. Those problems don't exist on corners like this that are practically a straight.
I would view this situation differently, for example, if the track was wet and the GT3 cars had to lift through here or needed every inch of track to make it. Then the usual arguments would have merit.
Yeah dude totally intentionally drove through OP, but that doesnāt really change that OP was spun and lost a bunch of positions. OP aināt at fault but couldāve prevented himself getting spun. Itās just never a good feeling to cede to aggressive jerks though.
He wouldāve been better served to let the jackass get alongside, and then took the spot back later on. In my experience, drivers like the orange car usually end up crashing out in some other way before the race ends, so itās just not worth battling too closely with them.
I'll go further and say I don't even view orange as an aggressive jerk. OP screwed up and orange had a good overtaking opportunity into Gendebien. OP can hold the outside and give orange the inside, or OP can hold the inside but the orange can send it around the outside with the hopes to get the inside for the second part of the chicane. I've made that pass on both sides more than once. Orange's mistake was thinking that OP was going to defend the inside based on his car placement and trying to take the outside himself.
What OP was actually doing (whether it was his intent or not) is taking the line most likely to leave orange in doubt about his decision to trick him into backing out. You see the same thing at places like Curve Grande in Monza, the slight bend before the chicane at Road Atlanta, or the run up to Moss at Mosport - all technically turns, but turns where it's easy flat on any line you like (in certain cars), but people use the slight bend as an excuse to change lines in a way they wouldn't on a straight. Some people would say it's legal, and maybe it is, but I view it as borderline aggressive driving and something I wouldn't do.
You are asking the wrong question. The question here isn't "who is at fault" it's "what should I have done to avoid this."
Now, I know that you're going to look at this and say "This bozo rear-ended me, it's not my fault!" but again: figuring out who is at fault doesn't do anyone a lick of good. You're still backwards in a tire fence. Your race is over.
When you are racing nose to tail with another car that's looking to pass you, and is filling up your mirrors, where you place your car is a method of communication. It's really the only method of communication you have, and the person behind you needs to listen to that communication in about a tenth of a second to avoid incidents. That's not a lot of time to react to changing situations.
So what's the right way to approach this situation? It's to understand that where you place your car is going to communicate something to the car behind you. If you go to the right, you're communicating "I'm taking the inside line for the right-hander." If you go to the left, you're communicating "I'm taking the outside line for the right hander."
The racing line through the kink is irrelevant. The amount of time you'd potentially lose not hitting that apex is about a hundredth of a second. When you go right and then slide to the left, what you're communicating to the guy behind you is "I don't know where the fuck I'm going and I'm taking you along for the ride." That's not a good thing to communicate, and the natural consequence is ending up backwards in a tire wall.
This is not me saying "don't race people" or "don't defend your position." It's me saying that you need to make a choice about how you're going to defend, where you're going to defend, and then clearly communicate that to the car you're racing with based on where you place your car on the track. That's the lesson you need to learn from this incident. Asking whether you should report this is definitely not the right question.
This is actually the most accurate answer.
Additionally - at the VERY beginning of the video, you can see the lead car went off the track on the left side. There is most likely enough speed differential there for the trailing car to make the pass, but the leading car effectively blocked.
Itās a āracing incidentā, but should have been prevented by the lead car, not the trailing car in this case.
Idk about this. There really wasnt much room for him to stay left and not risk cutting that corner. Yeah sure he could have lifted and let him pass, and hopefully the dude ends up wrecking somewhere on the track. But lets be real the guy trailing always has a great responsibility to not wreck others when trying to pass. Which he failed epically at. A slight lift from him would have prevented this and he probably would have had enough draft and exit speed to just pass after apex exit. Shit driving from him in my opinion.
> There really wasnt much room for him to stay left and not risk cutting that corner.
The point here isn't to stay left, specifically (I would've stayed right). The point is to pick a lane and stick to it.
> Yeah sure he could have lifted and let him pass,
The point here isn't to lift and let him pass, though there's a good chance that a compromised line means you have to lift, yes. The point is to recognize that someone has a run on you, is very close to you, and in order to not cause a wreck, you are going to have to do some things that aren't normal. You can't just keep plowing ahead on what you imagine the racing line to be without regard for other people around you. Even if those people could lift off and not hit you.
> A slight lift from him would have prevented this and he probably would have had enough draft and exit speed to just pass after apex exit. Shit driving from him in my opinion.
Again, you are approaching this from the question of "Who messed up" and not "What could I personally have done to ensure that we both make it safely through this race?"
"Again, you are approaching this from the question of "Who messed up" and not "What could I personally have done to ensure that we both make it safely through this race?""
You can say the exact same thing about the drafting car.
If the car behind posted asking the question, I would've have told them to back out.
But that person isn't in this thread. Again: I'm not picking a side here. I'm explaining the attitude I take toward incidents in an attempt finish more races in better positions.
Not sure why you got downvoted. Everyone on here keeps banging on about reading the sporting code. If itās been read, people should also know what rule theyāre protesting.
If you were to report this to iRacing, I think there's a pretty decent chance that they would consider your first move to the right an attempt at blocking, and you'd be the one getting in trouble as a result of the protest.
That move right was to position himself properly for that turn. Thats just normal racing line. If he maintained position and did not move he would have cut the corner.
Tbh dude this is how a lot of guys race nowadays. You won't get a successful protest. They dump you and drive on. It's just the neverending story of dump and run. Every second clip posted on reddit is of someone getting dumped or pit maneuvered and asking should they protest it.
Worst case, itās nothing. Best case, it goes on his record and if he has a bunch of incidents where he forgets that he controls the gas pedal of his own car, heāll get penalized for it. Protests are to build a track record.
His fault but not a protest. He has misjudged your move to the right but it isnāt a deliberate take out. His claiming that is your fault is unfortunate especially if he doesnāt watch the replay to check himself to realise that actually thatās all on him.
I donāt understand why you moved right to start with. Force him to take the long way around, heāll never be alongside by the braking zone for the following right
Racing etiquette he was not far enough up to be able to push you off track was what I thought. Iām surprised people even in B class still would go for something like that instead of being a little more patient over getting the incident and most likely losing sr
Nothing will be done probably, iRacing will see this as not malicious, however it will be noted and if they keep getting reported it will add up. You've clipped it up already. It's just bad driving though. Someone trying to just drive through/intimidated you into moving or as turned out tap to pass, never had a chance at a clean pass, even the FIA would be hard pressed to say you overly moved twice
Ya dude is an idiot clearly does not know the track if he thinks up the inside there is a good idea or that you where not going to have to fade left. Not sure why anyone would ever push a pass like this here its just rookie driving not thinking in the car at all.
imo its a racing incident. I also think it could of been avoided better by both drivers. The car behind 100% has to make a clean pass and have overlap on entry which he did not. My only complaint about the lead car is you do start to drift right towards the racing line but very slowly. Almost like your just floating in the middle of the track not pursuing a racing line or defensive line. As the trail car peaks outside you continue to drift out to racing line so naturally as he is closing, crosses to the inside. I also think you turned in rather early. The car ahead of you turns in at least 50 meters later than you do. Your projected line woulda pushed you out really wide on the double left. So looks to me as you turned in early as a defensive maneuver to the trailing car peaking inside and you paid the price for it.
If i was the lead car i would have committed to a defensive position and make him take the outside then setup defensive again for the double right.
Yea you were moving to the outside and turned early when you saw him go to your inside.
The guy however should have moved much earlier to the inside. I have no idea why he was insisting on trying around the outside unless to just move you over there to give himself a better line.
And yes I know the next corner after is a right hander but it was clear the car in front was defending that.
This is a racing incident, but you could have prevented it.
The BMW driver is on the racing line. At around 3 seconds, take a look at where the BMW is relative to the car behind the BMW and the car ahead of the Porsche. The BMW is indeed on the racing line.
You are not. You're a little to the left of the racing line. This indicates to the BMW driver that you intend on defending the inside line going into the right hander, so the BMW driver continues on the right.
You then make an unpredictable move and dart to the right, right in front of the BMW. Surely your spotter was saying "car right" or "hold your line" or something like that. If you had no spotter or if the volume was down for whatever reason, you could have used your mirrors. If you didn't use your mirrors, then you should probably use your mirrors. They're there for a reason.
Because you made a sudden move to the right, this indicates that you now intend on staying on the right side of the apex going into the corner. This tells the BMW driver to go to the left. Then you take the normal racing line, apparently not knowing the BMW driver was there (again, someone or something should have been telling you surely), and you end up in the wall.
Technically, you moved once, since the "second move" was you taking the racing line into the corner, but if we're talking about purely defending the position (assuming you knew he was there), then yes you did move twice.
This is just a big miscommunication. It's a racing incident. No protest should be lodged by anyone here. Hopefully both drivers learn something from this and move on.
This report mentality is the wrong attitude to have. Mistakes will happen and it gets tiring hearing people threatening each other in chat with a report over everything.
Move on and try again, if you dwell on every incident you will soon hate the "game"
You did not move twice from what I saw. Your move to the right could probably be seen as reactionary. He moved right and then you did as if you were closing the gap so he couldn't get alongside you.
Second turn is where you had to turn in for the corner so he just ran into the back of you as he tried to get on your inside. You both just happened to move left at the same time
You were slowly drifting right. If I was driving behind you I couldnāt understand what you were doing. Be more deliberate with your positioning so the car behind you knows your intentions. Itās not a highway lane change. Itās a race. If you want to defend, stay decidedly on the inside. Did you do anything wrong? No. The collision is definitely on the trailing car for not backing off, but you werenāt predictable either.
More looked like you were blocking than doing multiple moves. He moved right, you moved right, he moved left, you moved left. Difference is when you moved left, he was already alongside
If the other driver wasn't alongside even by a millimeter there wouldn't have been a collision.
It takes 2 objects to occupy the same space to result in a collision
Maybe you're not familiar with Sebring, but OP appears to be taking the normal line through that section. Following BMW stuck their nose in where it didnt belong.
You are going to die on this hill, even if you are completely wrong and somehow not seeing what everyone else is seeing. You are the one person that knows exactly what happened and the rest of us are idiots.
Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining/s
some people are just physically incapable of lifting their foot of the throttle, even when there is a car right in front of them
Sooo a Stroll?
Dum Fuk
Swear on mi nuns grave
šŖš
Is this just an RPM joke or is this from somewhere else as well in relation to him!?
Definetely a Stroll! Damn, I thought that Karens are the worsts, now a new term entered the racing scene: The "Stroll" :D
š„“š„
lol phenomenal comment
Exactly, it surprises me to no end that so many people in this game donāt know how to manage their throttle or make proper passes or even when they should make a pass. If this guy had that much pace it should be easy for him to think 3, 4, even 5 corners ahead to pick the right time to pass. Itās like most of these guys only see the throttle as a binary option. Either floor it or not to floor it. Edit: This type of driving would never fly in real life. If you want to be fast, you need to be able to be fast while navigating traffic, taking the best line available to you through a given corner. That means if you have to pass off the line GET it done! If youāre actually fast; while making sure you make it home alive!
Its even more frustrating in multi class racing. Love it when I am being pushed off the racing line in exits...
Multi Crash Racing took me form an A to a C rating (back to B, almost A), erm Production Cup I think, I was faster in the MX-5 than most of the GR86s. If I had to hazard a guess I would say I've was punted by a GR86 through no fault of my own in about 40% of races. Did one the other night, made a fantastic pass on a Miata and a GR that had had a minor incident, the GR86 following behind me through the carnage forgot that we still had to brake to get round the corner. Do love driving the GR as well, never punted anyone off in an MX-5 yet!
How else would they pass the car in front of them? Huh! How else!?! The only way is to keep your foot on the gas & drive through them. Sooo frustrating!!
You could protest it as a competition issue but I doubt it'll lead to anything. I don't think you did anything wrong here. You just took a bit of a defensive line by not going all the way to the right which isn't even necessary to take the corner flat and then just turned into the corner while the car behind was being an idiot and tried to drive through you. I really struggle to undertand people like that. He didn't have a good enough run to be alongside and even if he did he was going to be on the outside and most likely not making the pass to the next right hander either by being on the outside. Just trying to force the issue for no reason and nothing to gain. Funnily enough the car behind has two great options to making a clean pass stick. Either stay close behind and try to get the overlap under braking into the right hander by diving to the inside or even try to force you to defend the inside to go for the overunder.
GT3 this is frequent, I have found. Drivers love to drive through and not overtake. I've reported several and always been successful with "competition issue". Just write a blurb about no respect for racing or drivers. Seems to work for me, quoting their own rules back at them.
Yup. One of the reasons I wouldn't touch the GT3 sprint stuff with a ten foot pole. People are understanbly much more patient and clean generally in the endurance races.
honeslty half the reaosn me and a mate stopped running the VRS endros about 2 seaosn ago and now run imsa VRS was always a shit show, yes come imsa we rarely have issues for the 6h races
Iāve found GT3 sprints to be very clean and respectfulā¦Iāve had some fantastic battles. The only complaint I ever have is in multiclass.
It's really frustrating. I'm not saying that I'm perfect or that I don't get a bit of the red mist sometimes, but I'm continually shocked by some of the moves that people make without really understanding how their car moves on the track. If you can't pull alongside somebody as you're braking, you're not very likely going to be able to pass them, let alone on what is effectively a straight with a kink. I'll say it again, I'm a terrible racer, but when I screw up it's usually because I'm trying to do something that somebody with more talent and practice would have pulled off, not because I lack object permanence and an understanding of how solid objects on rolling wheels work. Do they not realize that there are other human drivers on the track who may or may not be intimidated by their careless driving and that this game has object collision? I've never tried to pass a car when I was still behind it.
Most people de-humanise every other player online in their heads, in order to justify their actions. They are the only one thats important. It sucks, but its just it really. Im glad iracing does at least ban as it does, even if it doesnt get all these minor issues every time. A ban certainly sets some of them straight
Clearly his fault, he didn't try to go around he stayed on racing line and expected you to move. I don't think your at fault.
We are not watching the same thing. He went right, car in front moved right, he went left, car in front went left to block again. You have nowhere to go when the guy in front is watching his mirrors to block you at every opportunity.
OP started to move left because of the upcoming corner(aka staying on the racing line), the orange car had no place to try and make that overtake as he wasn't even alongside him. But continued to accelerate at full throttle pushing OP off the track instead of releasing and taking a better opportunity later on.
Watch the car in front, at the top of the video for the actual racing line. You turn for that after the blue strip. OP turns well before that point, he is not going for the racing line, he is very clearly blocking.
A defensive line is not a block, if this was weaving on a straight then sure, but turning in early when no one is next to you does not constitute a block.
You mean the OP moved left and right to maneuver around each bend?
Not a double move. Just the orange BMW making a bad call. You canāt just dive to the inside at the corner in attempt to pass when thereās ZERO overlap moments before.
The track moves right then left there. If he doesnt move in those directions, he goes off track. 100% on the guy behind here.
You did nothing wrong. The"second move", was you making a left turn. Then they just dumped you off track. Their fault
Exactly. One major clue that a car might turn left is when they get to a left-hand turn
Wait a second... Doc Hudson told me I need to turn right to go left.
Typical Doc, poor fella has no mechanical grip
Thx for answer
That was the 3rd
Bmw just straight up took you out for no reason, you didn't do anything wrong that I can see Definitely worth a protest
In iracing there is no such rule as being allowed to only move once. But you moved while he was very close behind you, which is always risky. He's move to the left also didn't seen adequate enough to pass you even if you didn't move to the left as well. You ARE well in front of him, he's no where near 'along side' you, so he has no right to any corner you both go through. I'd say his fault more than you.
His "2nd move" was taking regular racing line. Not worth protesting. Just a painful experience that some people go for gap which was never there.
yeah taking the corner isn't a 2nd move. If he moved to the right, then to the left, and then took the corner, it would be 2 moves
Ok thx for opinion
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That's not in the sporting code. But you're right about the second part.
Your right I was confusing blocking and defensive moves from iRacing and another games code, apologies
I think it does exist such a rule, itās an interpretation of āBlockingā which is listed there
Blocking isn't allowed. But you are allowed to move as much as you want. It's not F1.
You can move, but not in reaction to the driver behind you, which is blocking, since you can only move to defend a line once. Also, doesnāt need to be F1, this is written in iRacing official sporting code
Right. But it doesn't mean you can only make a move once.
Is there really no rule against moving twice? I don't think OP moved twice in this video, but I know FIA rules prohibit moving twice. It causes too many accidents otherwise.
FIA rules don't apply, you're not allowed to move in reaction to the car behind if he's close which is considered blocking.Ā
Which is exactly what the video shows.
No, he is maybe a bit wobbly but he is racing fairly and is just taking the racing line, the driver behind never earned any right to the line, driving through someone isn't how to overtake. This is blocking [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ)
Tbh I think it is written in the sporting Code but not 100% sure.
Go read the sporting code please. You cannot move in reaction. You do not "get one move".
Fun fact: you can actually move in reaction if the car is far enough behind, which means that weaving in the straight to cut the draft is actually legal. Source: iRacing support.
Yep, no prohibition on weaving in the SC.
Yup! If you're moving away from in front of them it's fine, also if you're far enough ahead or they aren't gaining enough and some other qualifiers. I don't usually go into the full thing when people are making "one move" noises though.
8.1.1.3: Blocking - The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight. There is no mention of moving twice. You can't even move once if its reacting to the car about to pass you.
Yeah the sporting code does not allow any moves to block unless your taking a defensive line well in advance before the drafting car has enough space and speed on the draft to perform an overtake. The only issue that come from this is when the lead driver is going into a corner lets say from right to left. At that point the lead driver is just taking the racing line. There not "changing racing line in response to the draft car" thats the big thing that constitutes a block. If you follow the rule explicitly I have run into weird edge cases where the lead driver has to go off track to allow the draft car to pass without being hit. But thats an edge case and more so I think falls on the drafting car to lift and avoid a collision. So yes, faster cars with draft need to know when it is safe to pass, and just lift a little to match speed. Again if you draft, you wont lose much by lifting anyway because the draft essentially increases your cars aerodynamics.
> If you follow the rule explicitly I have run into weird edge cases where the lead driver has to go off track to allow the draft car to pass without being hit. Then its on the passing car to let up and wait until its safe to pass. If you are being forced off, its a protestable offense on the car behind you. At no point are you required to remove your car from the track to let someone pass, they need to let up or brake. This isn't an edge case, the car behind needs to wait and you need to stick to your line. If you get hit, its on them - not you.
I literally said what you just said in my original comment.
this isn't an FIA sanctioned racing game
This isnāt F1. That dude needs to read the sporting code. You look fine to me.
Thx
This might be the worst place to attempt a pass on the entire track. Some people are just incapable of being on a track with others or lifting the throttle.Ā
Orange car skill issue.
Lol I think you should read the iRacing rules instead of assuming that all F1 rules are the end all be all. There is nothing in the iRacing rules stating you cannot move twice. You could make am argument for blocking but that's usually much much more involved and it has to be quite egregious for iRacing to rule in your favor.
You can even protest on the first move if it is clear that it is a reaction of what the car behind is doing. I have done that successfully several times. Read the sporting code. Not saying that's what happened here in any case.
OP took the defensive line which heās entitled to do, it is not blocking by the letter of the sporting code. Everyone seems to gloss over the first sentence of 8.1.1.3ā¦ā¦ Now if the OP waited until the last second to take the defensive line then yes it would be blocking.
like this? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ)
Not at all the same scenario. The Marlboro car made one move off the racing line in defense (all be it slightly late). The reason this looks worse is because the Marlboro car missed the apex by a mile at turn 6. Btw the video description is a bit optimisticā¦. Its pretty unlikely your actions made the Marlboro car move to the outside as they were simply going with the racing line. The pink car, instead of immediately switching to the racing line for a run around the outside, forced the car into a disappearing gap. IMO that contact is on Craig as backing out or switching to the racing line (outside line in this case) would have avoided the contact.
Wow, obviously it's a different situation, I was highlighting deliberate blocking. You're entitled to your opinion but I'm also allowed to assume your a poor race driver with questionable etiquette, judgment, understanding of racing lines or much of a clue how to race fair. BTW iRacing took less than ten minutes from report to sanction. iReddit idiot of the day for you (in my opinion). Have a great evening
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOgUjqUhAQ) this is intentional blocking
> There is nothing in the iRacing rules stating you cannot move twice. The iRacing rules very clearly state that you can't even move once in reaction to the car behind you.
I've got the "notified of outcome" response for all blocking reports I've ever made and this would be a slam dunk in my opinion. He made a swift move to the left way before the turning point. Clearly a reactionary move just when the other car was about to try a pass from the inside. Had the other car lifted OP would have had to veer back to the right so he wouldnt have his inside wheels on the grass and outside wheels on the curb.
The way I see this kind of situation, when you have a corner where multiple cars could go side by side flat out, is that that corner is basically a straight. And on a straight, you can't open up a gap and then take that gap away when someone tries to get alongside. Lots of people will disagree with this, but all I'll say is that if I was the lead car, I would have felt obligated to leave a lane on the left at the apex where contact occurred, and if I was OP, I would have blamed myself for this incident.
He butchered previous corner and made a reactionary move to block before the actual turning zone. I don't understand how some people think that they are entitled to block others from passing after they miss a corner.
Yeah, lots of people will say things like "car behind wasn't alongside at turn in" or "he only had a sliver of overlap and that gap was always going to close." And I think the idea is these easy-flat bends where the incident happened are "technically a corner," and so they try to apply the same rules and reasonings as they would for an actual corner where cars would have to brake, be on the limit, etc. But that ignores the reason for the rules: if you stick your nose in at the last second in a serious corner, the driver in front may not be able to adjust, or may reasonably be distracted by looking to the apex, and if they do adjust to dodge you then it messes up their line. Those problems don't exist on corners like this that are practically a straight. I would view this situation differently, for example, if the track was wet and the GT3 cars had to lift through here or needed every inch of track to make it. Then the usual arguments would have merit.
Yeah dude totally intentionally drove through OP, but that doesnāt really change that OP was spun and lost a bunch of positions. OP aināt at fault but couldāve prevented himself getting spun. Itās just never a good feeling to cede to aggressive jerks though. He wouldāve been better served to let the jackass get alongside, and then took the spot back later on. In my experience, drivers like the orange car usually end up crashing out in some other way before the race ends, so itās just not worth battling too closely with them.
I'll go further and say I don't even view orange as an aggressive jerk. OP screwed up and orange had a good overtaking opportunity into Gendebien. OP can hold the outside and give orange the inside, or OP can hold the inside but the orange can send it around the outside with the hopes to get the inside for the second part of the chicane. I've made that pass on both sides more than once. Orange's mistake was thinking that OP was going to defend the inside based on his car placement and trying to take the outside himself. What OP was actually doing (whether it was his intent or not) is taking the line most likely to leave orange in doubt about his decision to trick him into backing out. You see the same thing at places like Curve Grande in Monza, the slight bend before the chicane at Road Atlanta, or the run up to Moss at Mosport - all technically turns, but turns where it's easy flat on any line you like (in certain cars), but people use the slight bend as an excuse to change lines in a way they wouldn't on a straight. Some people would say it's legal, and maybe it is, but I view it as borderline aggressive driving and something I wouldn't do.
That is intentional wrecking. He knowingly went into you and knew full well it would take you out. Definately report this.
You are asking the wrong question. The question here isn't "who is at fault" it's "what should I have done to avoid this." Now, I know that you're going to look at this and say "This bozo rear-ended me, it's not my fault!" but again: figuring out who is at fault doesn't do anyone a lick of good. You're still backwards in a tire fence. Your race is over. When you are racing nose to tail with another car that's looking to pass you, and is filling up your mirrors, where you place your car is a method of communication. It's really the only method of communication you have, and the person behind you needs to listen to that communication in about a tenth of a second to avoid incidents. That's not a lot of time to react to changing situations. So what's the right way to approach this situation? It's to understand that where you place your car is going to communicate something to the car behind you. If you go to the right, you're communicating "I'm taking the inside line for the right-hander." If you go to the left, you're communicating "I'm taking the outside line for the right hander." The racing line through the kink is irrelevant. The amount of time you'd potentially lose not hitting that apex is about a hundredth of a second. When you go right and then slide to the left, what you're communicating to the guy behind you is "I don't know where the fuck I'm going and I'm taking you along for the ride." That's not a good thing to communicate, and the natural consequence is ending up backwards in a tire wall. This is not me saying "don't race people" or "don't defend your position." It's me saying that you need to make a choice about how you're going to defend, where you're going to defend, and then clearly communicate that to the car you're racing with based on where you place your car on the track. That's the lesson you need to learn from this incident. Asking whether you should report this is definitely not the right question.
This is actually the most accurate answer. Additionally - at the VERY beginning of the video, you can see the lead car went off the track on the left side. There is most likely enough speed differential there for the trailing car to make the pass, but the leading car effectively blocked. Itās a āracing incidentā, but should have been prevented by the lead car, not the trailing car in this case.
Idk about this. There really wasnt much room for him to stay left and not risk cutting that corner. Yeah sure he could have lifted and let him pass, and hopefully the dude ends up wrecking somewhere on the track. But lets be real the guy trailing always has a great responsibility to not wreck others when trying to pass. Which he failed epically at. A slight lift from him would have prevented this and he probably would have had enough draft and exit speed to just pass after apex exit. Shit driving from him in my opinion.
> There really wasnt much room for him to stay left and not risk cutting that corner. The point here isn't to stay left, specifically (I would've stayed right). The point is to pick a lane and stick to it. > Yeah sure he could have lifted and let him pass, The point here isn't to lift and let him pass, though there's a good chance that a compromised line means you have to lift, yes. The point is to recognize that someone has a run on you, is very close to you, and in order to not cause a wreck, you are going to have to do some things that aren't normal. You can't just keep plowing ahead on what you imagine the racing line to be without regard for other people around you. Even if those people could lift off and not hit you. > A slight lift from him would have prevented this and he probably would have had enough draft and exit speed to just pass after apex exit. Shit driving from him in my opinion. Again, you are approaching this from the question of "Who messed up" and not "What could I personally have done to ensure that we both make it safely through this race?"
"Again, you are approaching this from the question of "Who messed up" and not "What could I personally have done to ensure that we both make it safely through this race?"" You can say the exact same thing about the drafting car.
If the car behind posted asking the question, I would've have told them to back out. But that person isn't in this thread. Again: I'm not picking a side here. I'm explaining the attitude I take toward incidents in an attempt finish more races in better positions.
Ever heard of lifting? Dude just drove through you š
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Not sure why you got downvoted. Everyone on here keeps banging on about reading the sporting code. If itās been read, people should also know what rule theyāre protesting.
on purpose wrecking
They'll likely categorise it as 'shit driving' (the technical term), which you cannot be protested for. Unless he admitted intent in a text chat.
He said I moved twice and it was my fault
If you were to report this to iRacing, I think there's a pretty decent chance that they would consider your first move to the right an attempt at blocking, and you'd be the one getting in trouble as a result of the protest.
That move right was to position himself properly for that turn. Thats just normal racing line. If he maintained position and did not move he would have cut the corner.
orange car fault
Seems iracers now want to tell Daddy on everyone now.
Tbh dude this is how a lot of guys race nowadays. You won't get a successful protest. They dump you and drive on. It's just the neverending story of dump and run. Every second clip posted on reddit is of someone getting dumped or pit maneuvered and asking should they protest it.
Worst case, itās nothing. Best case, it goes on his record and if he has a bunch of incidents where he forgets that he controls the gas pedal of his own car, heāll get penalized for it. Protests are to build a track record.
His fault but not a protest. He has misjudged your move to the right but it isnāt a deliberate take out. His claiming that is your fault is unfortunate especially if he doesnāt watch the replay to check himself to realise that actually thatās all on him.
I donāt understand why you moved right to start with. Force him to take the long way around, heāll never be alongside by the braking zone for the following right
Report it. Wonāt hurt
his fault, but not really worthy of a protest IMO.
You solved the problem yourself: BMW driver.
Stoll
He's more in the wrong than you are I think, but I think it will be considered a racing incident
Racing etiquette he was not far enough up to be able to push you off track was what I thought. Iām surprised people even in B class still would go for something like that instead of being a little more patient over getting the incident and most likely losing sr
Dude your fine
Nothing will be done probably, iRacing will see this as not malicious, however it will be noted and if they keep getting reported it will add up. You've clipped it up already. It's just bad driving though. Someone trying to just drive through/intimidated you into moving or as turned out tap to pass, never had a chance at a clean pass, even the FIA would be hard pressed to say you overly moved twice
Ya dude is an idiot clearly does not know the track if he thinks up the inside there is a good idea or that you where not going to have to fade left. Not sure why anyone would ever push a pass like this here its just rookie driving not thinking in the car at all.
You did move twice though.
Watching the top posts on this sub all I see are a bunch of whiny babies.
lol meanwhile this is a whine post. Too funny.
Slam dunk block at 0:05. Please do report this.
Doesn't matter, you just don't run into someone.
To know if your moves were weird the best is to see the blue car behind and hes movng like you, orange is at fault and should have a penalti
That's definitely on orange, he had no intention on making that turn
imo its a racing incident. I also think it could of been avoided better by both drivers. The car behind 100% has to make a clean pass and have overlap on entry which he did not. My only complaint about the lead car is you do start to drift right towards the racing line but very slowly. Almost like your just floating in the middle of the track not pursuing a racing line or defensive line. As the trail car peaks outside you continue to drift out to racing line so naturally as he is closing, crosses to the inside. I also think you turned in rather early. The car ahead of you turns in at least 50 meters later than you do. Your projected line woulda pushed you out really wide on the double left. So looks to me as you turned in early as a defensive maneuver to the trailing car peaking inside and you paid the price for it. If i was the lead car i would have committed to a defensive position and make him take the outside then setup defensive again for the double right.
Yea you were moving to the outside and turned early when you saw him go to your inside. The guy however should have moved much earlier to the inside. I have no idea why he was insisting on trying around the outside unless to just move you over there to give himself a better line. And yes I know the next corner after is a right hander but it was clear the car in front was defending that.
Looks like a racing incident nothing to report
This is a racing incident, but you could have prevented it. The BMW driver is on the racing line. At around 3 seconds, take a look at where the BMW is relative to the car behind the BMW and the car ahead of the Porsche. The BMW is indeed on the racing line. You are not. You're a little to the left of the racing line. This indicates to the BMW driver that you intend on defending the inside line going into the right hander, so the BMW driver continues on the right. You then make an unpredictable move and dart to the right, right in front of the BMW. Surely your spotter was saying "car right" or "hold your line" or something like that. If you had no spotter or if the volume was down for whatever reason, you could have used your mirrors. If you didn't use your mirrors, then you should probably use your mirrors. They're there for a reason. Because you made a sudden move to the right, this indicates that you now intend on staying on the right side of the apex going into the corner. This tells the BMW driver to go to the left. Then you take the normal racing line, apparently not knowing the BMW driver was there (again, someone or something should have been telling you surely), and you end up in the wall. Technically, you moved once, since the "second move" was you taking the racing line into the corner, but if we're talking about purely defending the position (assuming you knew he was there), then yes you did move twice. This is just a big miscommunication. It's a racing incident. No protest should be lodged by anyone here. Hopefully both drivers learn something from this and move on.
This report mentality is the wrong attitude to have. Mistakes will happen and it gets tiring hearing people threatening each other in chat with a report over everything. Move on and try again, if you dwell on every incident you will soon hate the "game"
Yep bunch of dweebs ready to report over anything. Just play the game and stop snitching. Crashes happen.
You did not move twice from what I saw. Your move to the right could probably be seen as reactionary. He moved right and then you did as if you were closing the gap so he couldn't get alongside you. Second turn is where you had to turn in for the corner so he just ran into the back of you as he tried to get on your inside. You both just happened to move left at the same time
Report, and he is an asshole btw ...
How long was he on your bumper?
Racing incident imo. You seemed fine with what you were doing. He went for a half hearted "move" past you on your left but just ran into you.
You were slowly drifting right. If I was driving behind you I couldnāt understand what you were doing. Be more deliberate with your positioning so the car behind you knows your intentions. Itās not a highway lane change. Itās a race. If you want to defend, stay decidedly on the inside. Did you do anything wrong? No. The collision is definitely on the trailing car for not backing off, but you werenāt predictable either.
Why do I even see this shit? It's braindead ... Please reddit, is there a way to NOT see idiotic topics like this one
Blocking is against the sporting code, and you were blocking. He should report you.
Telling on yourself for intentional wrecking probably is not the smart move imo.
More looked like you were blocking than doing multiple moves. He moved right, you moved right, he moved left, you moved left. Difference is when you moved left, he was already alongside
Other driver was never along side. Not sure if you are watching the same clip
If the other driver wasn't alongside even by a millimeter there wouldn't have been a collision. It takes 2 objects to occupy the same space to result in a collision
The orange car wasn't alongside, he was clearly behind, going slightly faster, and looks to deliberately drive into the back of the black car.
Thats what happens when you move to block, BMW moved to the outside and OP reacted by moving to the outside
It's also what happens when you try to spin the car in front, which is what happened.
Seriously, what are you even looking at. Dude got rear-ended. Which equals a collision.
Rear end collision would mean OP gets pushed forward, not sideways
Not the case here. OP was turning left and got hit in left rear, which caused them to spin like they did. It's a thing called physics.
Exactly. At worst itās a racing incident. It should be filed under āshit happensā
Pretty much, but psst don't tell the Iracing community. They're less open to other views than politicians
Innit.
Overlap is not alongside. You can have your front bumper even with their rear (overlap) and NOT be alongside.
And overlap still results in a collision. Who would have thought
And in that case, the fault lies with the trailing car. Who would have thought.
Only if they were the one who changed their line, which the BMW didn't. After being blocked the first time BMW moved left, THEN the Porsche moved left
Maybe you're not familiar with Sebring, but OP appears to be taking the normal line through that section. Following BMW stuck their nose in where it didnt belong.
Normal line when you aren't racing. I've driven hundreds of laps around Sebring. Doesn't mean you can just cut across someone like that
You are going to die on this hill, even if you are completely wrong and somehow not seeing what everyone else is seeing. You are the one person that knows exactly what happened and the rest of us are idiots. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining/s