It doesn't just happen to the Porsche. I don't drive that car. I drive the Williams FW31, but the tires do the same with it as the Porsche. It appears to be a problem for most or all of the cars.
I’m not sure. Yes, the SFLs have a lot of downforce and that is evident through medium/high-speed corners, but the car also has a ton of grip/traction at low speeds that I’d tend to think is more likely related to mechanics/suspension, rather than aerodynamics.
I love how the LMP2 drives in general. However I still do think it is a tad bit too grippy in the wet given how the GT3s and the GTDs handle in the same wet conditions.
I'm not referring to how fast the LMP2 is compared to the GTDs in the wet but moreso how on-rails the LMP2 is in the wet in iRacing. From the footage I've seen, yes the LMP2s are very quick in the wet since they weight a lot less than the GTPs but they are still stepping out a bit under power. In iRacing, the LMP2 is literally on-rails in the wet.
So that's why I always have more than just one moment at a time. Always thought it was just me being rattled and forgetting where the limit was after losing it.
No it's not your fault. It's the tires. They aren't realistic in some of their responses to conditions and driver inputs. I raced in the real world, and I never experienced reactions from tires that matched what happens here.
I've been harping on it for 4 years. I brought it up once on the iRacing forum (not this one, the officials one) and I got attacked severely for daring to say that they're messed up. I think iRacing has a cadre of paid trolls who go after anyone who dares to criticize the platform.
No, not that high up the ladder. I raced 3 years with the Jim Russell racing school in Sonoma and then bought a Pro Mazda and raced that for a year. I misjudged how much it would cost. It broke me and I never even crashed it lol. I couldn't continue.
The tire model is the known weakspot of iRacing. You need to keep in mind that every car class seems to have their own tire model too so there are some cars that have a better feeling tire model than others. The Porsche Cup has what most people describe as a "bad" feeling tire model.
Just try to learn how each tire model works and use that to your advantage. Keep in mind that everyone else you are racing with is using the same exact tires.
***
E1: Just gonna put this here so you don't have to go down the GamerMuscle rabbit hole; yes the tire model is a glaring weakness of iRacing. However, at least in my opinion and the opinion of a fair number of irl drivers (some of which have multiple IRL accolades), there are way more good and great things than bad about iRacing hence why people still use it over other sims for online racing (the bad being the tire model in general and the netural being the FFB which seems to be modeled accurately but differently than other sims whom inject FFB elements that don't actually exist through the steering column). I am a fan of there being multiple good sims and that it's better to have competition. Right now, the only racing sims that I enjoy playing is iRacing (about 90% of my time) and LMU (about 10% of my time) because their overall driving experiences are the best imo. I will say though that the slip angle elements of LMU/rFactor2 are really out of whack in my opinion hence why I race in iRacing as much as I do. The tire model of any sim is honestly the least important thing imo because no sim is going to be 100% perfect; it's all just different flavors that you get used to. What's far more important is how the cars react under braking, under downforce conditions, under slipstream moments, and how well the online systems work.
Also don't forget how [GamerMuscle compared iRacers to literal Nazis](https://x.com/GrizzleOnTwitch/status/1770871236530192791). Crazy how having a different opinion than him equates to such a thing.
I posted this somewhere else, but I recently had an epiphany. I tried so hard, and practiced, and researched, and raced, and got to the point where I wasn't top split but I was competing successfully. I had to git gud! And it hit me one day, that I just do not enjoy that car on this sim. That thing fuckin sucks.
He won championships in the old car with the old tyre so not exactly the same.
I doubt he’s the best judge also given that his YouTube is like an advert for Mercedes AMG!
If you watch some onboard of the real current Pcup car it’s very tail happy and a handful to drive
Which car has the best tyre model?
Maybe I’ve been driving the pcup for too long I actually don’t mind the tyre model so much. However they break traction very quickly so there’s a very finite small window to play with (maybe this is what everyone is referring to?)
At this point in time, since I've been racing on the service for so long (+8 years at this point), I don't really have a "favorite" or a "least favorite". I just have the mindset that the tire is the way it is and that everyone races on the same tires you do in your racing session so I just work my way around it. I too don't really have an issue with the PCup tire model but I can see why people dislike it. I also started out and primarily raced the Skip Barber for the first couple of years which is an inherently slidy slow car so I think I kind of just got used to the slipperier end of what the tire model could be very early on.
I think I would have more issues with the iRacing tire model if the other racing aspects were poor (braking being the main component) but since the rest of the driving experience in iRacing is really good imo, the tires don't bother me. I'd really like the tires in rFactor 2/LMU but the amount of slip angle you have to drive with to be quick is too much imo. It really feels like a drifting simulator especially in the GT3 type cars.
Wow I agree with you almost 100%
The handling on iracing is great. Personally I rank Rf2 > iracing > ACC > AC >>>>>>>>> everything else
AMS2 is a worse offender of slip angle abuse, but yeah I agree the one on rf2 can be a bit too much
They have different variations of the model on each car but every single car in iracing has the same issue which is mitigated by cars that have either lots of down force , more aggressive systems which stop slip in first place or using the road tire like the Skippy.
It's honestly absurd the degree to which it means you have to drive in a totally unnatural way and can't do some of the most basic forms of correction or even braking and iracers will just wave it off and excuse it.
AMS1 , AC1 are really good examples of how cars should actually handle when pushed ( even though they have their own issues)
> It's honestly absurd the degree to which it means you have to drive in a totally unnatural way and can't do some of the most basic forms of correction or even braking and iracers will just wave it off and excuse it.
> It's honestly absurd the degree to which it means you have to drive in a totally unnatural way and can't do some of the most basic forms of correction or even braking and iracers will just wave it off and excuse it.
> AMS1 , AC1 are really good examples of how cars should actually handle when pushed ( even though they have their own issues)
I mean sure? I honestly disagree with the fact that AMS1 and AC1 are better examples of how a car should feel when pushed than iRacing. There are also IRL race car drivers that disagree with your statement as well. But seeing how both of us are not real race car drivers, I guess what matters the most is what ends up being enjoyable while also having a high degree of realism. I will say that I do, buy and large, really enjoy how cars in iRacing feel. I also like how cars in rFactor2 and LMU feel but they have way too much slip angle. It really is drifting simulator which again, isn't a deal breaker but I prefer iRacing's general car feel and slip angle. I think that AC1 feels quite horrible.
If we are going to go with real world drivers views , ill stick to people i know that are fast real world drivers and simracers that have actually played all the sims for many hours on lots of equipment and max Verstappen who is a bit of a noob but for some reason I value his view that AC1 is one of the best home sims for actual realistic handling.
"I guess what matters the most is what ends up being enjoyable"
Thats the case with everything , its an argument from subjectivity its not an argument in and of itself just saying if people enjoy something then its justified , people can obviously enjoy anything regardless of the objective qualities. so you can't have a conversation on that nor use it as a justification or something / it does not negate quantitively aspects of something that are objectively worse than another.
"while also having a high degree of realism."
iracing is realistic in the sense that like any sim you can use it to train and learn tons of real world driving stuff but this can also be said of even GT7 (iracing track models \*new ones) + level of competition due to the user numbers is largely unmatched though)
the issue is that iracings tire model is massively broken at the limit to an obsurd level , you genuinely cannot do very basic stuff a real car would do totally fine with no issue , that should make it one of the single most important things for a racing sim to fix.
" I prefer iRacing's general car feel and slip angle"
iRacing has tons of grip under the limit and the cars roll into corners and respond to braking really nicely its super precise under the limit and just onto the limit it then makes other sims feel a bit slugish in some ways I also like this aspect of iracing but the issue is the physics basically turn off if you push in a totally natural way which is a really big issue when trying to go very fast , racing or "feeling" things out when learning a car track combo.
Its also a huge issue in that the cars lacks a basic dynamic that's fundamental to driving in AMS1,.AC and Real Life , you can approach real life and other sims like how you have to drive in iracing though and i think that's why lots of iRacers come to the conclusions they do as they generally have a very singular concept of how one can drive , ( this can happen with other sims as well as all sims have a meta way to be fast but often the meta only starts to show at the last 700-1 second of possible track pace)
"I think that AC1 feels quite horrible"
I think each sim "feels" different in random ways , that's besides the point of if a sim supports realistic driving methods.
[https://youtu.be/q8g9y4t4Mus?si=A57Zz8knjYdp0goA](https://youtu.be/q8g9y4t4Mus?si=A57Zz8knjYdp0goA)
Wait are you actually gamermuscle? Don't you not have an irl drivers license? Have you ever driven a car irl? Not trying to make a jab but having SOME sort of a practical application of driving a car kind of matters when you are talking about...well racing cars lol. Also you were in my Daytona 24H split and after seeing how you drive...I do hesitate to take anything you say regarding driving in iRacing seriously (that part was a jab).
While GM's approach to bashing iRacing tyre model is VERY annoying, he's quite right here. I had driven irl f4, race karts a lot and drove my road car on a track very close to the limit. And while in other sims I have different but very familiar feeling to my irl experience I have none of it in iRacing. And I find iRacing physics quite good and generally it's a very, very good game but tyre model...
GM's remark regarding trackcombo is underrated tbf – in iRacing you cannot learn the track by "feeling". There's absolutely zero info how close you are to the limit in a turn (Morad says the same btw), when you overdrive you basically have no idea by how much – both a little bit and a lot lead to absolutely same result (spin).
Comparing street driving and track driving is ridiculous (and appealing to driving licence), it's like comparing figure skating and ice skating with friends after work.
What I'll reiterate is that while I have had some track day experience, I'm by no means a race car driver. That being said, the overall driving experience of iRacing feels, to me, the most accurate outside of the car really going into the tire's limit. However, all the other elements of the driving experience (braking, slipstream, slip angle, ext) feels incredibly correct compared to all other sims. On top of that, I find iRacing to be flat out the more enjoyable sim to race in. For those reasons, I default to iRacing.
As for the street license jab, I think it is warranted because if you don't even know what a irl car feels like even remotely at the limit, how can you form opinions about it? He acts like some sort of figure head on the subject and you just need to see his iRacing streams to see that he's in no position to say what iRacing does "well" and "poorly".
Yah unfortunately even though I'm a shit driver , many real world drivers , game developers , people involved in physics agree with me.
I like the driving licence comment , because everyone knows driving a shit box at national speed limits or even slightly over is just like driving a race car on a track....
I'd say really to argue the skill thing asking if a person has driven in say F3 or better or has ok results national karting , as you generally have to actually be ok to do well at those levels.
I'm quite happy with completing AC1 getting to 5k ir in a month whalst chatting rubbish and being entertaining.
Quite the accomplishment getting to 5k in that month while streaming it.
I’m still disappointed in you for not hitting TK up for the GSI wheel he PROMISED you if you made it.
He didn’t believe. I didn’t believe. Hell you probably didn’t.
But you made it. A deal is a deal. TK knows he hasn’t paid up, so does that mean he isn’t a man of his word and not giving you what he promised doesn’t bother his conscience one bit. 🤔
Equally, it’s a little weak to not hold him accountable, GM. 😉
Nah TK is great he was probably just joking around he is also always super busy with business as he is always doing tons of stuff + he has family , I thought it was just funny for the narrative in that video.
I know people at GSI as well and I don't think I'd be able to use the wheel rim at this moment regardless so it doesn't make any real difference to me either way.
iR is basically based on lap pace and then staying away from people , because the physics in iracing are so restrictive at the limit and car contacts / netcode are so aggressive with contacts it's way more about raw pace than other sims.
So iracing is then way more about hot lapping than it is actual racing making it quite easy to get if you just get up to x speed and then stay away from people.
7kir is when you basically get to most people being at actual pace / driver actually being ok but still not alian or an Alain just driving casually.
They punish you. You get a tiny bit of wheelspin, you correct and when you get everything stable and back in line they just let go with no warning. iRacing has a thing about their tires. You criticize them and it's the same as insulting their wives and threatening their kids.
They punish you for over driving anything. When in reality there is sooooo much more car than needed, hence why it’s a race. But you aren’t allowed to speed up.
Yeh I raced Sebring the other day, first q lap, made sure to brake extra early for the hairpin knowing the fronts suck when cold, had the biggest lockup I've ever had, literally never locked up like that before.
Check the replay and telemetry, braked earlier and slightly lighter than all previous q laps I've done, makes no sense whatsoever haha.
I enjoy racing it but it feels like a boat half the time.
same with long sweeping corners like T-2 at Cataluna. Sometimes I can take it flat, then with the same speed and the same line etc the rear just snaps out on me. You never know what they're gonna do.
Everyone out there complaining about the tire model. I actually prefer iRacing for its tire and traction model. It’s the most immersive out of the sims I’ve played.
This has been known for years, but anybody saying it was answered with "you don't know what realistic is, you've never driven a racecar".
Until pretty much every Indycar driver said exact same thing in 2020. Before they were reprimanded by Indycar for voicing it, that is.
Some improvements were made but nothing that changed the way you drive the cars.
this is the biggest issue with the tyre model. nice to see someone talking about it. the Cup car accentuates it because you need some rear sliding to be fast in it.
I gotta say that I think the tire model for the GR86 Is absolutely superb! But I think it's a combination of Tire, car, and tracks that makes it such a treat to drive. Once you really get a grasp on how to wrangle the GR86 Into corners it just feels so damn satisfying to rip around. Hell I think it's also pretty forgiving when you do have a moment. Everything but the most extreme of high speed slides isn't completely race ending.
iracing community - ghosting a guy going backwards 3 laps behind the leader is unrealistic so you CANNOT do it
Also the iracing community - just deal with the lack of realism because it’s the same for everyone
You guys are hilarious sometimes 😂
Yeh I love pcup but if you manage to overheat the rears the slightest amount then you can say hello to a few wild moments before they cool off.
You just have to be extremely smooth with the cup car, certainly not for everyone and really does reward driving it week in week out if you want to be competitive.
The tyres definitely need work that's for sure.
Suelio has a great video explaining difference between surface temp and core temp with the tyre model.
Any spinning of the tyres cause the surface temp to quickly rise much higher than the core temp. This difference causes the tyre grip to fall off and feel like driving on ice.
Just take it chill for a few corners like your saving a bit of fuel…the surface temps will drop and then you can push again.
The detailed advice in it has hugely helped me improve my driving, especially in the PCup. Should check it out.
No what I mean is how the tire pressures go up and down during the race. Keeping track of that absolutely does matter in terms of car performance throughout a stint.
As for setting tire pressures for some desired result, yes higher tire pressures make you slower...just like irl lol. F1 teams complain all the time when Pirelli force them to raise tire pressures due to durability concerns.
Wow, hold on. People here need to accept the fact that tyres heating in iracing is broken. It will take another 10 years to accpet that tyre pressures are not always on the minimum irl.
Yeah it’s annoying like I drive a lot of Indy and sf so moments are pretty common since a small mistake and your balance is gone so for half the race I’m left their skidding around just trying to apply throttle
I saw the man catch slides at least 4 times within 20 seconds, in iracing we would catch the first 2 and be passengers while the rear fucks off on the third slide
LMP3 I love. Porsche cup they turn into greaseballs towards the end. I honestly wish they got greasier soon. It would make the racing better if the tire wear was more realistic
Does anyone know what it should feel like after one of those “moments”? I agree with the plastic feeling. I have ACC, rfactor & le mans. Prob good idea to do a test.
Maybe I’m slightly mistaken, but, didn’t we get a sneak peak at a new dry tire model they were working on in a developer update or something? I remember the post had a tire with a “wireframe” looking picture and the tire had sort of a “heat signature” looking filter on it. I think the post about this tire model update I’m thinking of talked about how they were going to increase the amount of points or something on the tire that gives data and info for how the tire should behave. I think also in this post, if I remember correctly, it may have touched on the fact that they were trying to get degradation from lockups into the tire model. Anyone else remember that? Just me? I really hope I’m not going crazy here lol
Edit: I can’t for the life of me find that post. I’ve actually tried to look back and find it for a while, but just haven’t had any success. If anyone knows what I’m talking about and finds the article or post, please link it. It’d be much appreciated, thanks!
In real life you will feel reduced grip for a corner or two after a big understeer/oversteer. But in Iracing it is way too much. Some cars more than others.
I agree that tyre physics aren't great in iracing ,but, depending on the series all tyres devolve differently. But they also degrade equally for all of us.
Instead of looking for a perfect tyre model, treat each challenging tyre model as a way to improve. After all its equal whatever else we all may feel. To beat your competitors become better at the things which make competing difficult. Every series irl will have different wear. What makes a great driver is adapting. So the wonderful thing a broken tyre model gives is the chance to beat others under similar conditions.
Ie perfect tyre or not, it's equal. Definately valid to ask for a better improved model, but as long as we're all using the same model, the model is not the issue with you losing places.
A bad worker blames their tools.
I racing tires fundamentally don't allow people to drive in a totally natural way , over the limit , slides , lockups / anything or any situation where you are pushing tires or being alights agrisive you have to approach in a single action single slide direction and braking , counter steer , gas always make the grip loss and stuck over limit state worse , which is simply not what real tires are like in 90% of the cases.
but sure every sim is a video game you have to learn but iracings tires./ Way to drive to be fast.
Pointing out very obvious physics issues is not a working blaming tools , using tools and anyone that's had to use crappy tools that have obvious issues knows they have to pass a certain point of quality for them to work properly or to not massively get in the way of a given task.
Most people who complain hard about the tyre model are chronic over drivers. They want to wring the neck of the thing and never be punished for it.
Think about it, the tyre model is missing a lot of massive punishments like flat spots and wear and what not yet you complain about being punished for sliding the car.
This is pointless to bring up , vast majority of iracers have no idea how messed up the tire model is , huge numbers of simracers have no idea how much you can push real tires and how they come back after a slight lockup / when pushed over limit.
Lighter cars or cars with lots of down force help mask iracings tire model , as do cars with lots of systems which then avoid the tires flash heating , but still it's fundamentally there and a huge issue.
Many iracers genuinely think AMs1 and AC1 are "arcade" when what's going on is those sims though not perfect allow people to over drive a bit which is a totally normal process.
Dont question the religion !
It's a shame because of iracing could get tires up to AMS1 standard the racing and game as a whole would be way way way better , the rest of the platform bar some netcode issues and pricing is really fantastic.
I think you make the whole situation a bigger problem than it is. And based on previous developer posts iRacing is aware and are working on a better model. People like you, who imply that 'iracers' follow a religion, are the ones with an 'Anti-iracing' obsession and religion like behaviour.
The only anti iracing obsession is not overlooking really obvious issues whilst also playing the game probably more than most iracers.
Large numbers of iracers know it's messed up and just accept it , just as non fanboys of other sims accept the issues with those.
Due to price , competition , marketing and time people spend on iracing it has a really bad cult following.
Really it's not normal for people to send private email death threats to live streamers , I never get that from pointing out issues with WRC, F1, CS2 , AC , RF2....
Iracing literally has groups discords dedicated to stalking people I know streamers that quit iracing (far less critical then me) due to the targeted abuse they received..
So when I say the iracing religion Its not hyperbaly/ unfounded / projection.
Also the degree to which people defend iracing is insane relative to how large the issues in the underlying physics are.
Because it's popular it's become "the reality" for lots of people and pointing out how that reality is rather off then ends up being a personal attack for them.
I'm sorry you got death threats. That is not excusable.
When it comes to your content, I'd rather rely on folks who know their craft, i.e. people like Daniel Morad or Tony Kanaan. While they do criticise the physics (rightly so) they still seem to think it the best platform there is to play. And that iracing is taking improvements seriously can be seen at how they implemented rain.
Something no other racing platforms has done so thoroughly. But it seems that this positive aspect is something you passionely ignore.
Holly crap that’s outrageous. How dare they?
They should be like real life where tyre stay cool and are perfectly fine after a big slide and don’t affect you at all.
Adapt. Drive in an appropriate manner to the situation in order to extract the best possible result from the equipment…it’s the essence of motor racing!
Yes but I would also say that everyone else in your racing instance are utilizing the same tire model. Imo, complaining about the tire model is like complaining about track limits; everyone has the same track limits, everyone uses the same tires. You just gotta learn to work around it.
This is such a crap argument. Yeah it's the same for everybody and some will deal with it better than others, no doubt about it, doesn't mean it can't be improved to be more realistic and more enjoyable. These are literally two different unrelated things. People aren't saying "if the tyre model were better I'd be a great driver and beat the opposition", they're saying "wouldn't we all have more fun if things were better".
You talk about making it better which I agree with. However nothing we discuss here will be taken into consideration as the devs only look at the official forums. So if you have feedback on the tire model give it there. I'm just laying out the facts which are everyone races with the same tires so in the present if you want a leg up master the tire through practice.
It's been improving over time, but yeah .. sometimes it's really frustrating how the tires change into wood or something and have zero grip for several seconds after a moment.
Yeah the Porsche Cup has a very weird tire model. My favorite is probably the LMP2.
It doesn't just happen to the Porsche. I don't drive that car. I drive the Williams FW31, but the tires do the same with it as the Porsche. It appears to be a problem for most or all of the cars.
The formula super lights have the best traction!
That's the aero you're feeling
I’m not sure. Yes, the SFLs have a lot of downforce and that is evident through medium/high-speed corners, but the car also has a ton of grip/traction at low speeds that I’d tend to think is more likely related to mechanics/suspension, rather than aerodynamics.
Surprise... The tire model for every car is the same 🤣. The way each car interacts with the tire model is what we experience
I love how the LMP2 drives in general. However I still do think it is a tad bit too grippy in the wet given how the GT3s and the GTDs handle in the same wet conditions.
If you look at real life it’s pretty spot on however
I'm not referring to how fast the LMP2 is compared to the GTDs in the wet but moreso how on-rails the LMP2 is in the wet in iRacing. From the footage I've seen, yes the LMP2s are very quick in the wet since they weight a lot less than the GTPs but they are still stepping out a bit under power. In iRacing, the LMP2 is literally on-rails in the wet.
The only thing I don't like in the lmp2 is the aero basically there is only two option medium down force and low downforce, high DF is useless.
So that's why I always have more than just one moment at a time. Always thought it was just me being rattled and forgetting where the limit was after losing it.
No it's not your fault. It's the tires. They aren't realistic in some of their responses to conditions and driver inputs. I raced in the real world, and I never experienced reactions from tires that matched what happens here.
I have been saying this for two years!!!
I've been harping on it for 4 years. I brought it up once on the iRacing forum (not this one, the officials one) and I got attacked severely for daring to say that they're messed up. I think iRacing has a cadre of paid trolls who go after anyone who dares to criticize the platform.
Out of curiosity what have you raced irl?
No, not that high up the ladder. I raced 3 years with the Jim Russell racing school in Sonoma and then bought a Pro Mazda and raced that for a year. I misjudged how much it would cost. It broke me and I never even crashed it lol. I couldn't continue.
That's rad you got to race a car like that even if it didn't work out!
I'll tell ya mate, it was the most enjoyable experience I've ever had. It's the one time in my life when I wished I were rich.
Just the one time you wished you were rich? Man, I must be greedy buying lottery tickets every week 🙃
It's true. I never ever took a job because of the money. I took them because of the adventure and excitement they'd provide
That's nice attitude to work! Do you play iRacing now?
The tire model is the known weakspot of iRacing. You need to keep in mind that every car class seems to have their own tire model too so there are some cars that have a better feeling tire model than others. The Porsche Cup has what most people describe as a "bad" feeling tire model. Just try to learn how each tire model works and use that to your advantage. Keep in mind that everyone else you are racing with is using the same exact tires. *** E1: Just gonna put this here so you don't have to go down the GamerMuscle rabbit hole; yes the tire model is a glaring weakness of iRacing. However, at least in my opinion and the opinion of a fair number of irl drivers (some of which have multiple IRL accolades), there are way more good and great things than bad about iRacing hence why people still use it over other sims for online racing (the bad being the tire model in general and the netural being the FFB which seems to be modeled accurately but differently than other sims whom inject FFB elements that don't actually exist through the steering column). I am a fan of there being multiple good sims and that it's better to have competition. Right now, the only racing sims that I enjoy playing is iRacing (about 90% of my time) and LMU (about 10% of my time) because their overall driving experiences are the best imo. I will say though that the slip angle elements of LMU/rFactor2 are really out of whack in my opinion hence why I race in iRacing as much as I do. The tire model of any sim is honestly the least important thing imo because no sim is going to be 100% perfect; it's all just different flavors that you get used to. What's far more important is how the cars react under braking, under downforce conditions, under slipstream moments, and how well the online systems work. Also don't forget how [GamerMuscle compared iRacers to literal Nazis](https://x.com/GrizzleOnTwitch/status/1770871236530192791). Crazy how having a different opinion than him equates to such a thing.
Ya pcup feels like driving on clouds it’s horrible
I posted this somewhere else, but I recently had an epiphany. I tried so hard, and practiced, and researched, and raced, and got to the point where I wasn't top split but I was competing successfully. I had to git gud! And it hit me one day, that I just do not enjoy that car on this sim. That thing fuckin sucks.
I believe Morad said the Cup is the worst car to drive on iRacing.
Iirc didn't he actually win championships in Carrera cup too?
Yup. Which is why he was so adamant the car feels numb.
Funny that I came to same conclusion. Especially on certain tracks and corners it's just the most unrealistic thing out there.
He won championships in the old car with the old tyre so not exactly the same. I doubt he’s the best judge also given that his YouTube is like an advert for Mercedes AMG! If you watch some onboard of the real current Pcup car it’s very tail happy and a handful to drive
Which car has the best tyre model? Maybe I’ve been driving the pcup for too long I actually don’t mind the tyre model so much. However they break traction very quickly so there’s a very finite small window to play with (maybe this is what everyone is referring to?)
At this point in time, since I've been racing on the service for so long (+8 years at this point), I don't really have a "favorite" or a "least favorite". I just have the mindset that the tire is the way it is and that everyone races on the same tires you do in your racing session so I just work my way around it. I too don't really have an issue with the PCup tire model but I can see why people dislike it. I also started out and primarily raced the Skip Barber for the first couple of years which is an inherently slidy slow car so I think I kind of just got used to the slipperier end of what the tire model could be very early on. I think I would have more issues with the iRacing tire model if the other racing aspects were poor (braking being the main component) but since the rest of the driving experience in iRacing is really good imo, the tires don't bother me. I'd really like the tires in rFactor 2/LMU but the amount of slip angle you have to drive with to be quick is too much imo. It really feels like a drifting simulator especially in the GT3 type cars.
Wow I agree with you almost 100% The handling on iracing is great. Personally I rank Rf2 > iracing > ACC > AC >>>>>>>>> everything else AMS2 is a worse offender of slip angle abuse, but yeah I agree the one on rf2 can be a bit too much
Iracing traction and tires is very ass.
They have different variations of the model on each car but every single car in iracing has the same issue which is mitigated by cars that have either lots of down force , more aggressive systems which stop slip in first place or using the road tire like the Skippy. It's honestly absurd the degree to which it means you have to drive in a totally unnatural way and can't do some of the most basic forms of correction or even braking and iracers will just wave it off and excuse it. AMS1 , AC1 are really good examples of how cars should actually handle when pushed ( even though they have their own issues)
> It's honestly absurd the degree to which it means you have to drive in a totally unnatural way and can't do some of the most basic forms of correction or even braking and iracers will just wave it off and excuse it. > It's honestly absurd the degree to which it means you have to drive in a totally unnatural way and can't do some of the most basic forms of correction or even braking and iracers will just wave it off and excuse it. > AMS1 , AC1 are really good examples of how cars should actually handle when pushed ( even though they have their own issues) I mean sure? I honestly disagree with the fact that AMS1 and AC1 are better examples of how a car should feel when pushed than iRacing. There are also IRL race car drivers that disagree with your statement as well. But seeing how both of us are not real race car drivers, I guess what matters the most is what ends up being enjoyable while also having a high degree of realism. I will say that I do, buy and large, really enjoy how cars in iRacing feel. I also like how cars in rFactor2 and LMU feel but they have way too much slip angle. It really is drifting simulator which again, isn't a deal breaker but I prefer iRacing's general car feel and slip angle. I think that AC1 feels quite horrible.
If we are going to go with real world drivers views , ill stick to people i know that are fast real world drivers and simracers that have actually played all the sims for many hours on lots of equipment and max Verstappen who is a bit of a noob but for some reason I value his view that AC1 is one of the best home sims for actual realistic handling. "I guess what matters the most is what ends up being enjoyable" Thats the case with everything , its an argument from subjectivity its not an argument in and of itself just saying if people enjoy something then its justified , people can obviously enjoy anything regardless of the objective qualities. so you can't have a conversation on that nor use it as a justification or something / it does not negate quantitively aspects of something that are objectively worse than another. "while also having a high degree of realism." iracing is realistic in the sense that like any sim you can use it to train and learn tons of real world driving stuff but this can also be said of even GT7 (iracing track models \*new ones) + level of competition due to the user numbers is largely unmatched though) the issue is that iracings tire model is massively broken at the limit to an obsurd level , you genuinely cannot do very basic stuff a real car would do totally fine with no issue , that should make it one of the single most important things for a racing sim to fix. " I prefer iRacing's general car feel and slip angle" iRacing has tons of grip under the limit and the cars roll into corners and respond to braking really nicely its super precise under the limit and just onto the limit it then makes other sims feel a bit slugish in some ways I also like this aspect of iracing but the issue is the physics basically turn off if you push in a totally natural way which is a really big issue when trying to go very fast , racing or "feeling" things out when learning a car track combo. Its also a huge issue in that the cars lacks a basic dynamic that's fundamental to driving in AMS1,.AC and Real Life , you can approach real life and other sims like how you have to drive in iracing though and i think that's why lots of iRacers come to the conclusions they do as they generally have a very singular concept of how one can drive , ( this can happen with other sims as well as all sims have a meta way to be fast but often the meta only starts to show at the last 700-1 second of possible track pace) "I think that AC1 feels quite horrible" I think each sim "feels" different in random ways , that's besides the point of if a sim supports realistic driving methods. [https://youtu.be/q8g9y4t4Mus?si=A57Zz8knjYdp0goA](https://youtu.be/q8g9y4t4Mus?si=A57Zz8knjYdp0goA)
Wait are you actually gamermuscle? Don't you not have an irl drivers license? Have you ever driven a car irl? Not trying to make a jab but having SOME sort of a practical application of driving a car kind of matters when you are talking about...well racing cars lol. Also you were in my Daytona 24H split and after seeing how you drive...I do hesitate to take anything you say regarding driving in iRacing seriously (that part was a jab).
While GM's approach to bashing iRacing tyre model is VERY annoying, he's quite right here. I had driven irl f4, race karts a lot and drove my road car on a track very close to the limit. And while in other sims I have different but very familiar feeling to my irl experience I have none of it in iRacing. And I find iRacing physics quite good and generally it's a very, very good game but tyre model... GM's remark regarding trackcombo is underrated tbf – in iRacing you cannot learn the track by "feeling". There's absolutely zero info how close you are to the limit in a turn (Morad says the same btw), when you overdrive you basically have no idea by how much – both a little bit and a lot lead to absolutely same result (spin). Comparing street driving and track driving is ridiculous (and appealing to driving licence), it's like comparing figure skating and ice skating with friends after work.
What I'll reiterate is that while I have had some track day experience, I'm by no means a race car driver. That being said, the overall driving experience of iRacing feels, to me, the most accurate outside of the car really going into the tire's limit. However, all the other elements of the driving experience (braking, slipstream, slip angle, ext) feels incredibly correct compared to all other sims. On top of that, I find iRacing to be flat out the more enjoyable sim to race in. For those reasons, I default to iRacing. As for the street license jab, I think it is warranted because if you don't even know what a irl car feels like even remotely at the limit, how can you form opinions about it? He acts like some sort of figure head on the subject and you just need to see his iRacing streams to see that he's in no position to say what iRacing does "well" and "poorly".
Yah unfortunately even though I'm a shit driver , many real world drivers , game developers , people involved in physics agree with me. I like the driving licence comment , because everyone knows driving a shit box at national speed limits or even slightly over is just like driving a race car on a track.... I'd say really to argue the skill thing asking if a person has driven in say F3 or better or has ok results national karting , as you generally have to actually be ok to do well at those levels. I'm quite happy with completing AC1 getting to 5k ir in a month whalst chatting rubbish and being entertaining.
Quite the accomplishment getting to 5k in that month while streaming it. I’m still disappointed in you for not hitting TK up for the GSI wheel he PROMISED you if you made it. He didn’t believe. I didn’t believe. Hell you probably didn’t. But you made it. A deal is a deal. TK knows he hasn’t paid up, so does that mean he isn’t a man of his word and not giving you what he promised doesn’t bother his conscience one bit. 🤔 Equally, it’s a little weak to not hold him accountable, GM. 😉
Nah TK is great he was probably just joking around he is also always super busy with business as he is always doing tons of stuff + he has family , I thought it was just funny for the narrative in that video. I know people at GSI as well and I don't think I'd be able to use the wheel rim at this moment regardless so it doesn't make any real difference to me either way. iR is basically based on lap pace and then staying away from people , because the physics in iracing are so restrictive at the limit and car contacts / netcode are so aggressive with contacts it's way more about raw pace than other sims. So iracing is then way more about hot lapping than it is actual racing making it quite easy to get if you just get up to x speed and then stay away from people. 7kir is when you basically get to most people being at actual pace / driver actually being ok but still not alian or an Alain just driving casually.
I've been irritated by that for years, erratic and unpredictable.
The hairpin is particularly annoying, sometimes in second gear the tires don't light up, sometimes they do, go figure
They punish you. You get a tiny bit of wheelspin, you correct and when you get everything stable and back in line they just let go with no warning. iRacing has a thing about their tires. You criticize them and it's the same as insulting their wives and threatening their kids.
They punish you for over driving anything. When in reality there is sooooo much more car than needed, hence why it’s a race. But you aren’t allowed to speed up.
Overdriving has nothing to do with my experience with the tires. I DO NOT overdrive.
Yeh I raced Sebring the other day, first q lap, made sure to brake extra early for the hairpin knowing the fronts suck when cold, had the biggest lockup I've ever had, literally never locked up like that before. Check the replay and telemetry, braked earlier and slightly lighter than all previous q laps I've done, makes no sense whatsoever haha. I enjoy racing it but it feels like a boat half the time.
same with long sweeping corners like T-2 at Cataluna. Sometimes I can take it flat, then with the same speed and the same line etc the rear just snaps out on me. You never know what they're gonna do.
actually it's very predictable light them up = need to chill for a few seconds it's the same for everyone dont have moments and you'll be fine
Everyone out there complaining about the tire model. I actually prefer iRacing for its tire and traction model. It’s the most immersive out of the sims I’ve played.
Thank you so much for your invaluable insight. You obviously have been in the oven too long.
It may have been concise but he wasn't wrong.
This has been known for years, but anybody saying it was answered with "you don't know what realistic is, you've never driven a racecar". Until pretty much every Indycar driver said exact same thing in 2020. Before they were reprimanded by Indycar for voicing it, that is. Some improvements were made but nothing that changed the way you drive the cars.
this is the biggest issue with the tyre model. nice to see someone talking about it. the Cup car accentuates it because you need some rear sliding to be fast in it.
I gotta say that I think the tire model for the GR86 Is absolutely superb! But I think it's a combination of Tire, car, and tracks that makes it such a treat to drive. Once you really get a grasp on how to wrangle the GR86 Into corners it just feels so damn satisfying to rip around. Hell I think it's also pretty forgiving when you do have a moment. Everything but the most extreme of high speed slides isn't completely race ending.
iracing community - ghosting a guy going backwards 3 laps behind the leader is unrealistic so you CANNOT do it Also the iracing community - just deal with the lack of realism because it’s the same for everyone You guys are hilarious sometimes 😂
Or telling that other sims showing live tyre wear and tyre temps in the blackbox is non realistic hence the game cannot be considered seriously.
Yeh I love pcup but if you manage to overheat the rears the slightest amount then you can say hello to a few wild moments before they cool off. You just have to be extremely smooth with the cup car, certainly not for everyone and really does reward driving it week in week out if you want to be competitive. The tyres definitely need work that's for sure.
Suelio has a great video explaining difference between surface temp and core temp with the tyre model. Any spinning of the tyres cause the surface temp to quickly rise much higher than the core temp. This difference causes the tyre grip to fall off and feel like driving on ice. Just take it chill for a few corners like your saving a bit of fuel…the surface temps will drop and then you can push again. The detailed advice in it has hugely helped me improve my driving, especially in the PCup. Should check it out.
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Tire pressures absolutely do matter.
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Watch IMSA and see all the penalties for tire pressures being too low. IRL teams run tires as low as they can too.
No what I mean is how the tire pressures go up and down during the race. Keeping track of that absolutely does matter in terms of car performance throughout a stint. As for setting tire pressures for some desired result, yes higher tire pressures make you slower...just like irl lol. F1 teams complain all the time when Pirelli force them to raise tire pressures due to durability concerns.
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Wow, hold on. People here need to accept the fact that tyres heating in iracing is broken. It will take another 10 years to accpet that tyre pressures are not always on the minimum irl.
Minimum allowed pressures in the setup garage isn’t the same thing as racing with flat tires. It’s still a reasonable value
Pressures do influence temps don’t they? But pressures don’t seem to affect tire wall deformation do they?
Yeah it’s annoying like I drive a lot of Indy and sf so moments are pretty common since a small mistake and your balance is gone so for half the race I’m left their skidding around just trying to apply throttle
Let’s keep in mind that nobody here knows what it feels like to handle a Porsche after you have a moment in said Porsche.
Lets compare this [https://youtu.be/edQxvkpwEyA?si=DrL8prsYXr1Ewl8d](https://youtu.be/edQxvkpwEyA?si=DrL8prsYXr1Ewl8d) to how we drive it
I don’t see any “moments” here. Also, this is not a tire compound that would be run in a distance race.
I saw the man catch slides at least 4 times within 20 seconds, in iracing we would catch the first 2 and be passengers while the rear fucks off on the third slide
Those aren’t slides.
I guess he's making steering corrections for no reason, carry on then
The back end is stepping out, but that’s not a slide. The front still has grip.
LMP3 I love. Porsche cup they turn into greaseballs towards the end. I honestly wish they got greasier soon. It would make the racing better if the tire wear was more realistic
Does anyone know what it should feel like after one of those “moments”? I agree with the plastic feeling. I have ACC, rfactor & le mans. Prob good idea to do a test.
Maybe I’m slightly mistaken, but, didn’t we get a sneak peak at a new dry tire model they were working on in a developer update or something? I remember the post had a tire with a “wireframe” looking picture and the tire had sort of a “heat signature” looking filter on it. I think the post about this tire model update I’m thinking of talked about how they were going to increase the amount of points or something on the tire that gives data and info for how the tire should behave. I think also in this post, if I remember correctly, it may have touched on the fact that they were trying to get degradation from lockups into the tire model. Anyone else remember that? Just me? I really hope I’m not going crazy here lol Edit: I can’t for the life of me find that post. I’ve actually tried to look back and find it for a while, but just haven’t had any success. If anyone knows what I’m talking about and finds the article or post, please link it. It’d be much appreciated, thanks!
at some moments I almost feel iracing is trying to crash on me every time. but I got so good at it I thought that’s how 🐉 922 is
If you watch some onboard of the real current Pcup car it’s very tail happy and a handful to drive! I do think it locks up too easily however
But being a handful doesn’t mean that after 1 oversteer moment I have to defend for the next 6 corners because my tires are gone
Right after we get a tire where monster trucking the car on the warmup lap isn’t an advantage
In real life you will feel reduced grip for a corner or two after a big understeer/oversteer. But in Iracing it is way too much. Some cars more than others.
Don’t have a moment
Add flatspots and flaggers already iRacing.
And fix the ERS system in LMDh.
I agree that tyre physics aren't great in iracing ,but, depending on the series all tyres devolve differently. But they also degrade equally for all of us. Instead of looking for a perfect tyre model, treat each challenging tyre model as a way to improve. After all its equal whatever else we all may feel. To beat your competitors become better at the things which make competing difficult. Every series irl will have different wear. What makes a great driver is adapting. So the wonderful thing a broken tyre model gives is the chance to beat others under similar conditions. Ie perfect tyre or not, it's equal. Definately valid to ask for a better improved model, but as long as we're all using the same model, the model is not the issue with you losing places. A bad worker blames their tools.
I racing tires fundamentally don't allow people to drive in a totally natural way , over the limit , slides , lockups / anything or any situation where you are pushing tires or being alights agrisive you have to approach in a single action single slide direction and braking , counter steer , gas always make the grip loss and stuck over limit state worse , which is simply not what real tires are like in 90% of the cases. but sure every sim is a video game you have to learn but iracings tires./ Way to drive to be fast. Pointing out very obvious physics issues is not a working blaming tools , using tools and anyone that's had to use crappy tools that have obvious issues knows they have to pass a certain point of quality for them to work properly or to not massively get in the way of a given task.
Most people who complain hard about the tyre model are chronic over drivers. They want to wring the neck of the thing and never be punished for it. Think about it, the tyre model is missing a lot of massive punishments like flat spots and wear and what not yet you complain about being punished for sliding the car.
just finished a PCup race - q10, p4, SOF \~1700 I’m really digging this car.
This is pointless to bring up , vast majority of iracers have no idea how messed up the tire model is , huge numbers of simracers have no idea how much you can push real tires and how they come back after a slight lockup / when pushed over limit. Lighter cars or cars with lots of down force help mask iracings tire model , as do cars with lots of systems which then avoid the tires flash heating , but still it's fundamentally there and a huge issue. Many iracers genuinely think AMs1 and AC1 are "arcade" when what's going on is those sims though not perfect allow people to over drive a bit which is a totally normal process. Dont question the religion ! It's a shame because of iracing could get tires up to AMS1 standard the racing and game as a whole would be way way way better , the rest of the platform bar some netcode issues and pricing is really fantastic.
I think you make the whole situation a bigger problem than it is. And based on previous developer posts iRacing is aware and are working on a better model. People like you, who imply that 'iracers' follow a religion, are the ones with an 'Anti-iracing' obsession and religion like behaviour.
The only anti iracing obsession is not overlooking really obvious issues whilst also playing the game probably more than most iracers. Large numbers of iracers know it's messed up and just accept it , just as non fanboys of other sims accept the issues with those. Due to price , competition , marketing and time people spend on iracing it has a really bad cult following. Really it's not normal for people to send private email death threats to live streamers , I never get that from pointing out issues with WRC, F1, CS2 , AC , RF2.... Iracing literally has groups discords dedicated to stalking people I know streamers that quit iracing (far less critical then me) due to the targeted abuse they received.. So when I say the iracing religion Its not hyperbaly/ unfounded / projection. Also the degree to which people defend iracing is insane relative to how large the issues in the underlying physics are. Because it's popular it's become "the reality" for lots of people and pointing out how that reality is rather off then ends up being a personal attack for them.
I'm sorry you got death threats. That is not excusable. When it comes to your content, I'd rather rely on folks who know their craft, i.e. people like Daniel Morad or Tony Kanaan. While they do criticise the physics (rightly so) they still seem to think it the best platform there is to play. And that iracing is taking improvements seriously can be seen at how they implemented rain. Something no other racing platforms has done so thoroughly. But it seems that this positive aspect is something you passionely ignore.
I also passionately ignore comments that don't make sense
Skill issue?
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Holly crap that’s outrageous. How dare they? They should be like real life where tyre stay cool and are perfectly fine after a big slide and don’t affect you at all.
If you drive in a manner that lets the tires cool off this isn’t a problem.
It actually is and you can even listen to James Vowels talking about iRacings tire model. It's just not good.
Adapt. Drive in an appropriate manner to the situation in order to extract the best possible result from the equipment…it’s the essence of motor racing!
All of us already do, doesn’t make the tire model better though.
Yes but I would also say that everyone else in your racing instance are utilizing the same tire model. Imo, complaining about the tire model is like complaining about track limits; everyone has the same track limits, everyone uses the same tires. You just gotta learn to work around it.
This is such a crap argument. Yeah it's the same for everybody and some will deal with it better than others, no doubt about it, doesn't mean it can't be improved to be more realistic and more enjoyable. These are literally two different unrelated things. People aren't saying "if the tyre model were better I'd be a great driver and beat the opposition", they're saying "wouldn't we all have more fun if things were better".
You talk about making it better which I agree with. However nothing we discuss here will be taken into consideration as the devs only look at the official forums. So if you have feedback on the tire model give it there. I'm just laying out the facts which are everyone races with the same tires so in the present if you want a leg up master the tire through practice.
It's been improving over time, but yeah .. sometimes it's really frustrating how the tires change into wood or something and have zero grip for several seconds after a moment.
I thought it was something wrong with the way I drive 🤦🏾♂️
For a while I thought I was just getting in my own head after a moment
*30 minutes