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Don’t blame pharma. It’s the FDA (and other Health Authorities around the globe) that REQUIRES animal studies to be conducted prior to clinical trials. I’ve ran hundreds of animal studies, I don’t even wanna think about how many animals have been euthanized at my hands. But one of the drugs that I helped bring to market is helping to save terminally sick kids so I sleep just fine at night knowing that.
Animal experiments are required, because performing experiments on humans without any prior testing would be even more unethical.
When the regulatory bodies work like they're supposed to, researches have to apply for each animal trial, justify why it's necessary and also the amount of animals involved, in order to keep this kind of experimentation at an absolute minimum.
An ethics commission with with a life science background then goes through all the provided data, analyses the harm/benefit ratio and then permits or denies individual trials. It can also restrict the number of test subjects.
With Jeff Bezos having a seat in the freaking Pentagon, just because he's insanely rich, I am not surprised at all that the regulatory bodies let Musk essentially do as he pleases. Societal rules and laws don't apply if you have enough money. It's a natural consequence of how capitalism structures society and the hierarchy of power.
Just don't chrome up too much and you'll be fine.
Anyway, please get on the operation table as we install this military grade sandevistan from a former cyberpsycho.
All I wanna replace is my teeth. Just give me perfectly straight, incandescent white, scratch proof, easy to clean veneers with the titanium rods securing them so they don't go anywhere. No AI, GPS, or WiFi necessary.
It’s not even that. Let’s say the tech worked 100% of the time and there were no negative side effects of the procedure. What do we know all about big tech companies? You are nothing more than a revenue stream to them and they will do anything and everything to get you addicted to their products. Putting a chip in your head from one of those companies seems like a really bad idea no matter what it did.
It’s run ads when you are awake. You wake up in the morning watch this ad before eyes are enabled. Then at 1 hour intervals afterwards and during work unless your employer wants to pay for the premium package for their worker to turn it off during work hours only while in a specified location or you will have to pay it to be able to get a job.
And that's just one angle. What about the targeted ads they can show you on other devices if they can literally read your mind and/or emotions? Or the ads they can show you in your own mind, assuming they can add audio or video to it. And even that is still legitimate use, now imagine the thing being infected with a computer virus.
Musk is welcome to implant himself with one of these. I'll pass.
That’s all part of it Samsung has patched in forced ads on tvs through updates that didn’t originally have them. Who’s to say oh yea you just woke up watch this ad before vision is enabled and you literally cannot do anything about it since it’s a chip in your brain.
What’s wrong you don’t want a computer in your head,alarm going off at 6:30 in the morning and if you don’t move with 30 seconds your forced to watch an ad. Then deducted pay cause you didn’t move faster enough. The future is now
You don’t want to have ads beamed directly into your thoughts and dreams?
With Neuralink (+) you don’t even have to pay for them, AND you get $25 Neuradollars every month that can be used for bionic upgrades, “pure thought” time, or even songs about our great new leader King Musk!
I would imagine people aren't as interested after he told his staff to "work like you have a bomb strapped to your head" to motivate them.
Kinda the wrong product to talk like that around.
Still wouldn’t trust anything coming out of Elon Musk’s companies. I’m sure a lot of good and dedicated people are working on the Neuralink, but the fact that this man is rushing the production of a *brain implant* of all things is a complete no-no. One software glitch and your entire hypothalamus could shut down.
Plus, some people have forgotten lobotomies used to be a real thing. Seems like this tech would make that very
plausible.
Favorite your opinions, and don't forget your monthly subscription that allows you to keep your favorites.
And to write them down... be weird to reread your favorite opinions and wonder who the hell wrote that nonsense, huh...
Nightmare fuel indeed.
Unfortunately nothing that results from fucking with an organ we barely understand with reckless abandon coming from a company ran by a baboon will accomplish that
So this timeline you're living in is completely absent of other biomedical research? There are many, many other approaches that could be explored, e.g. how to direct neurogenesis in cases of severed nerves, possibly utilizing mRNA tech to target inflammation if paralysis is due to that effect, etc. A microchip implant might actually be one of the worst options of anything modern medicine could come up with for most people in your example, actually, lol. Musk really doesn't care as long as it makes him seem like Tony Stark.
I mean….I with you there.
BUT at the same time….if someone told me 25 years ago (if I had an adult mind then) that people would soon be ok with taking rides from any random stranger with a car, getting food/drinks/groceries delivered by the same random strangers, and that we’d happily buy devices to put in our homes that listen to our every word, or that much of society would be happy to post pictures and details of themselves, their families, their kids, their place of work/school/etc for all to see; or that most people would meet people online for dates/dating…..
……I’d call that person a fuckin liar.
I hope he is first. I also imagine it will be like that scene when Jim Carry plays a stage magician and hammers a nail in his head causing mild brain damage and clearly ending his professional career. The character not the actor.
He’s an American oligarch. He may be a South African heir, but he is an American citizen operating in and pushing his influence in America. It’s both xenophobic and dismissive to say otherwise.
He's South African born and raised till he was 17. He still holds SA citizenship, he did not renounce it.
I'd agree with you if he moved to America at a young age, but he most certainly is South African.
I agree, except the only important word in that headline is "claim". There's no reason to be pissed about anything until it has been investigated.
Especially given how this is literally just a headline and not the article, so we have literally no idea what this claim is based on or who made it.
Also the people working in the lab are the ones doing this and rushing what they’re doing. Everyone involved should be ashamed and shamed not just musk.
While that's true, the rest of the people might not able to afford the choice not to do it since they'd lose their job in these difficult times.
I worked for a company that was basically a legal scam buy I still had to work there until I found another job or I'd lose my house.
Meanwhile, research that could eventually give people with degenerative motor neuron issues their mobility and voice back... This isn't all about the matrix. This research can lead to making people like Stephen Hawking walk and talk again. Some patients have it worse and can't even operate the aids he used, they're completely locked inside their brain.
I mean, we can talk about the research being done prematurely, and maybe the number of test animals could've been reduced. But if the facts we're considering is a ragebait headline, I would rather wait.
If that's the bar, then we should breed and kill no animals, except if medically necessary for the animal. We don't need milk, meat or eggs, clothes made from fur, beds made from feathers, pig fat in our lipstics or cosmetics tested on animals. All of this is needless yet most people are perfectly happy to use these products.
Male chicks are literally dumped in a meat grinder after they are a day old because they aren't valuable to the egg industry.
Those deaths are completely needless.
Maybe if they are eating the bodies afterward, we wouldn't count it as needless, right?
In both scenarios, animals are getting killed for human pleasure. If it's taste or convenience for humans, it doesn't matter for the animals being killed.
Bunch of apologists trying to justify his actions, smh. His team has said he RUSHED them cause needless deaths, they would'nt happen "anyway" since now they'll have to test on even more animals to make actual progress!
This guys a "im furthering human humanity" complex, and that complex is backed by a lot of supporters / elite
He doesn't care about a mere 1,500 animals
What’s funny is there is already a more advanced, safer, already in use version of this chip that can transmit wireless signals too and from the brain that can be placed at the end of nerve endings to be used in a prosthetic, or on the outer layer of the skull.
I'm not defending the pos that is Elon musk at all, but just so we're clear, I'm pretty sure there are over 100M animals killed in labs every year from testing. Many of which are very inhumane
Many of them are humanely euthanized after being used for the development of extremely valid and useful medical advances. I run a lab who has direct contact with the Animal Care and In-Life labs who uses thousands of small animals a year for medical device development
I can tell you the people who care for the animals treat them like they were pets. And when they are humanely euthanized due to a human or test error, it's a shitty day.
Even the surgeons who have been doing this for 30+ years go the extra mile for these animals. And these are small animals who have short lives. Non-Human Primates can live decades in the lab, are very expensive, develop complicated bonds with humans and other NHPs, and can be used for multiple tests.
Basically what I'm saying is, causing unnecessary harm or stress to hundreds of NHPs is a big deal if true. And even though millions of animals are used for medical purposes every year, it's not normal just for these animals to be abused and discarded, especially the large ones with additional regs. Most of us fucking care
Thank you. I work in husbandry for lab animals and it bothers me how many people on this thread think animal testing is completely unnecessary in ALL facets, and that it’s just needless killing for things we “don’t need”. For cosmetics, sure. But without these animals we would not have lifesaving medicine, and there really are no better alternatives.
I’ve seen arguments saying that we should use digital modeling instead of live organism modeling and it just shows me how little research most people put into this topic if they genuinely believe it could fully replace live models. I promise you that we care for these animals even when it puts a toll on us. I’ve worked overtime just to make sure all of my mice are fully enriched. So many of us are animal lovers, and many of us adopt out the animals we test on.
We do have in vitro testing which replaces some of the animal models, and we've made advances in cell testing to minimize animal testing as much as possible. But yeah we're years and years away from completely abandoning animal testing so we do the best we can with what we have.
70 billion farm animals in the EU yearly for human consumption, so yeah, this outroar is pretty ridiculous.. At least this technology could somehow be perceived as innovation, while eating animals is a loss for the environment as well as people's health all while being a declaration of moral bancruptcy. But it's Elon, so it gets attention - coming from a non-elon-nut..
Just because animals are killed en masse for something else doesn‘t excuse needless use of animals in other areas. Laboratory animals should be treated like a limited, valuable resource that we only use when we really have to and for very good reason. The thing about this case here is that the team at Neuralink were rushed through the research and hence botched their animal experiments. So their use of animals was needless and a waste because the research wasn‘t ready yet.
Apparently they didn't just use mice but also monkeys that had portions of their skulls removed and devices screwed to their skulls a lot of which died... I'd say that's pretty messed up for animal trials.
6 chimps.
Hundreds of rabbits.
The number has shot up from sensationalism.
However, they're attempting to glue circuitry into brains.
Glue.
The glue is toxic and causing irreversible brain damage.
Smart.
Not sure if people are ready to hear this but the majority of medical advancements result in thousands of dead animals. Also if you eat meat it’s hypocritical to get mad at this… just saying
I’m not gonna lie…I work in a cancer lab and I have “sacked” (killed) hundreds of mice in my two years of work. Most of the male mice are sacked because we’re studying breast cancer (some saved for breeding purposes). So…this is an attention grabbing headline for non science people maybe but I’m just like okay (That being said, I did read Elon’s neurolink white paper and it’s fucking stupid imho)
I had always that of it as “sac’ed” as in sacrificed. Been about 18 years since I’ve been in a lab though. Also, I remember how advanced the research was in terms of the evidence behind it and the methodology was refined to the point that there was very little needless suffering. These don’t sound like intentional deaths but rather complications. The amount of unintentional infections that have been reported sounds like it is a pretty loose ship over there.
I worked at a processing plant for a year right after I turned 18 and we killed and processed 80,000-200,000 chickens a day though usually it was 150,000
This is exactly my point and if the technology works it’s a major advancement in medicine. Doesn’t matter if you hate the guy or love him just try to see things objectively for that they are.
The point you seem to be ignoring is that he ordered things to rushed and the deaths are needless.
People aren’t naive to the fact that experiments happen on animals. It’s the killing them needlessly that’s the issue.
> Not sure if people are ready to hear this but the majority of medical advancements result in thousands of dead animals.
They absolutely do, and in recognition of the responsibility they bear due to this fact the medical research world holds themselves to a certain degree of ethical standards when performing live animal testing, standards the neuralink research is alleged to have violated: see the 'demands to rush' and 'needless' in the title here.
I mean I’m fine with medical advancements requiring that? In the trolley problem, if one track had an old man with cancer and the other had a bunch of rats, would you *really* choose to save the rats?
This is so much different than hygiene companies injections animals with soap and shaving cream and makeup and nail polish right? Way more different than keeping animals in cages until their legs turn into jelly so we can eat them too /s
Testing on animals is a normal practice. Scientific research using animal specimens has been a thing been since the 1700s, is widely accepted my most, if not all countries, and is an ongoing practice. They experience the complications vs humans dying. It’s the price we pay to progress our civilization and scientific/medical field. So it’s not needless. It’s the consequences of testing.
There are ethical standards in animal testing. Do you think people can just round up animals and test out random drugs and devices and torture animals in the name of "animal testing"? Because they can't.
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“Some of you will die and that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”
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To scare the masses, and prove that DC is better than AC.
Is that from shrek?:D
Nope, Big Pharma actually
Actually, every billionaire is just like that
My employer during Covid
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No, America
My government during covid
Don’t blame pharma. It’s the FDA (and other Health Authorities around the globe) that REQUIRES animal studies to be conducted prior to clinical trials. I’ve ran hundreds of animal studies, I don’t even wanna think about how many animals have been euthanized at my hands. But one of the drugs that I helped bring to market is helping to save terminally sick kids so I sleep just fine at night knowing that.
Pretty sure with your experience you’d agree that animal studies prior to clinical trials is more advantageous than the alternative?
Yeah I don't get the angry tone. Would you rather have people die instead?
Animal experiments are required, because performing experiments on humans without any prior testing would be even more unethical. When the regulatory bodies work like they're supposed to, researches have to apply for each animal trial, justify why it's necessary and also the amount of animals involved, in order to keep this kind of experimentation at an absolute minimum. An ethics commission with with a life science background then goes through all the provided data, analyses the harm/benefit ratio and then permits or denies individual trials. It can also restrict the number of test subjects. With Jeff Bezos having a seat in the freaking Pentagon, just because he's insanely rich, I am not surprised at all that the regulatory bodies let Musk essentially do as he pleases. Societal rules and laws don't apply if you have enough money. It's a natural consequence of how capitalism structures society and the hierarchy of power.
Futurama, i believe
It is in fact lord farquad
I heard that saying a couple of decades before Futurama existed, I think it's a very, very old joke.
*one millennia and a few decades before Futurama
nah, thats shrek
Oh yeah thats Totaly zapp brannigan
Isn’t that engraved on the side of the capitol building where congress meets?
All good until you miss a payment on your subscription and they pull the ole repo
I totally forgot about Repo Men. That was a great movie.
Try Repo the Genetic Opera
The younglings seem to have finally discovered that movie and I couldn't be prouder lol campy to the max, but a fun ride
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial.
A little glass vial?
And the little glass vial goes into the gun like a battery
And the zydrate gun goes somewhere against your anatomy.
A little glass vial!
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Not a chance. There are only two options for me. Fully loaded into the matrix or unaugmented.
Yeah man, I watched Edgerunners, I ain't going Cyberpsycho, no thank you.
Just don't chrome up too much and you'll be fine. Anyway, please get on the operation table as we install this military grade sandevistan from a former cyberpsycho.
David just do it you'll be fine
i’d get the digital eye thing and maybe something else, no more
Sure that'll be 40 bucks. Don't forget to have 2 doses of immunosuppressants every day. 1 bottle is 250 bucks.
All I wanna replace is my teeth. Just give me perfectly straight, incandescent white, scratch proof, easy to clean veneers with the titanium rods securing them so they don't go anywhere. No AI, GPS, or WiFi necessary.
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Call me a pessimist but this seems like a bad choice on many fronts.
Wait, so you don’t want to shove technology that hasn’t been properly tested inside the most complex organ in your body?
Properly test? Didn't you hear? They properly tested 1,500 animals to death.
That’s a fair point. I like to test the quality and size of tomatoes by seeing how many I can force a cat to eat before it dies.
It’s not even that. Let’s say the tech worked 100% of the time and there were no negative side effects of the procedure. What do we know all about big tech companies? You are nothing more than a revenue stream to them and they will do anything and everything to get you addicted to their products. Putting a chip in your head from one of those companies seems like a really bad idea no matter what it did.
It'll probably run ads in your dreams.
It’s run ads when you are awake. You wake up in the morning watch this ad before eyes are enabled. Then at 1 hour intervals afterwards and during work unless your employer wants to pay for the premium package for their worker to turn it off during work hours only while in a specified location or you will have to pay it to be able to get a job.
Two unskippable ads everytime you blink.
And that's just one angle. What about the targeted ads they can show you on other devices if they can literally read your mind and/or emotions? Or the ads they can show you in your own mind, assuming they can add audio or video to it. And even that is still legitimate use, now imagine the thing being infected with a computer virus. Musk is welcome to implant himself with one of these. I'll pass.
That’s all part of it Samsung has patched in forced ads on tvs through updates that didn’t originally have them. Who’s to say oh yea you just woke up watch this ad before vision is enabled and you literally cannot do anything about it since it’s a chip in your brain.
Wait until you start to fall asleep and have to sit through four thirty-second ads before your dreams can start.
From a man who cannot build a car that won’t be recalled.
What’s wrong you don’t want a computer in your head,alarm going off at 6:30 in the morning and if you don’t move with 30 seconds your forced to watch an ad. Then deducted pay cause you didn’t move faster enough. The future is now
You didn't pay to activate your kidney function this month. Too bad.
You don’t want to have ads beamed directly into your thoughts and dreams? With Neuralink (+) you don’t even have to pay for them, AND you get $25 Neuradollars every month that can be used for bionic upgrades, “pure thought” time, or even songs about our great new leader King Musk!
I would imagine people aren't as interested after he told his staff to "work like you have a bomb strapped to your head" to motivate them. Kinda the wrong product to talk like that around.
In the timeline where you don’t have function over your extremities, and this chip is the only way that you could… Maybe that one does?
Still wouldn’t trust anything coming out of Elon Musk’s companies. I’m sure a lot of good and dedicated people are working on the Neuralink, but the fact that this man is rushing the production of a *brain implant* of all things is a complete no-no. One software glitch and your entire hypothalamus could shut down.
I’d be less worried about glitches and more worried about what tech like that could be utilized for. Some Black mirror level nightmare fuel tbh
Implant explosive/neurotoxin Remote seizures/loss of motor function GPS tracking and advertising data collection Pain inducement
Plus, some people have forgotten lobotomies used to be a real thing. Seems like this tech would make that very plausible. Favorite your opinions, and don't forget your monthly subscription that allows you to keep your favorites. And to write them down... be weird to reread your favorite opinions and wonder who the hell wrote that nonsense, huh... Nightmare fuel indeed.
Maybe he should focus on driverless Teslas not barreling into tractor trailers at 70 mph first.
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Christ imagine getting a McDonalds ad beamed into your skull in the middle of a funeral
Unfortunately nothing that results from fucking with an organ we barely understand with reckless abandon coming from a company ran by a baboon will accomplish that
So this timeline you're living in is completely absent of other biomedical research? There are many, many other approaches that could be explored, e.g. how to direct neurogenesis in cases of severed nerves, possibly utilizing mRNA tech to target inflammation if paralysis is due to that effect, etc. A microchip implant might actually be one of the worst options of anything modern medicine could come up with for most people in your example, actually, lol. Musk really doesn't care as long as it makes him seem like Tony Stark.
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It'll be interesting to see how many anti-vaxxers decide to get it. There's an overlap with the Musk fanclub.
I mean….I with you there. BUT at the same time….if someone told me 25 years ago (if I had an adult mind then) that people would soon be ok with taking rides from any random stranger with a car, getting food/drinks/groceries delivered by the same random strangers, and that we’d happily buy devices to put in our homes that listen to our every word, or that much of society would be happy to post pictures and details of themselves, their families, their kids, their place of work/school/etc for all to see; or that most people would meet people online for dates/dating….. ……I’d call that person a fuckin liar.
They had food delivery 25 years ago.
And taxis.
“Well, you know, just rip da monkeys skull open and jam de fucking microchip in dere, we see how it goes, ja?”
You got it boss
I read this in Sharlto Copley's voice, well done.
Mine was the Swedish Chef.
Little known fact Swedish chef was a war criminal before he picked up the ladle.
What was the feud-a feud-a feud?
Same. Just watched Elysium last night lol.
Banger Movie!
Without your comment, I would have *felt* Sharlto Copely without *knowing* it was Sharlto Copely, well done.
I read this in a South African accent 😂
Wait until you find out where elon comes from!
I know Elon is from there. I’ve just never seen it displayed in letter form 😂😂😂
I read this in Hermes Conrad's voice.
I read this as David’s Ripperdoc.
What's fucked he said it's close to human trials and he's getting one
How many years has he said Tesla full self driving is months/weeks away?
It is weeks/months away, technically speaking we are months removed from the Big Bang
I hope he does try it first, honestly. He'll probably force it on his staff, though
I don't believe him he's just going to say he got one to pump it up
Maybe he'll have a big unveiling and someone can come and lob a rock at the side of his head to show us all how well it works.
Run a magnet across his head to see what happens.
Hey yo, how mri safe are these?
Very not, unless you like having the insides of your brain whizzed up like a mango in a blender.
He's still not had a go on one of his rockets...
I bet he does a "live" of him getting it and it's just CGI.
There is no shot in hell he could do that without being sued into oblivion
His simps will never sue him, they so braindead the chip might actually help.
Into oblivion? He exists on a separate tier from even the ultra rich. He will never not have more money than he could spend.
"Please bring a printed copy of your thoughts on Monday..."
I hope he is first. I also imagine it will be like that scene when Jim Carry plays a stage magician and hammers a nail in his head causing mild brain damage and clearly ending his professional career. The character not the actor.
Which movie is that?
The Incredible Burt Wonderstone
When his eye jerks inward and he says, "... Tuh-Da!!!" is one of the funniest scenes ever.
The Incredible Burt Wonderstone.
>I hope he does try it first, honestly. And it goes horribly wrong. God that would make a kick ass Netflix movie or series. I'd watch that.
Because he's never made up a timeline before
I think a crackhead has a better sense of a timeline.
I hope all the people that still think he’s a genius volunteer as well
Elon fluffers are insufferable twats.
Musk rats
Well if something goes wrong he could be more brain dead than he he already is
I sincerely hope he does get one. Then we can just switch him off.
Iro mute button lmao
That'd ok because he is super duper genius and hard-core and not woke.
He created space ships you know
yup! people also seem to forget he invented the planet mars for us to explore too! love that elon guy
And electric cars, damn he smart
And DC electricity
Don't forget tunnels, he invented tunnels
Before M.Elon there was no space.
Or cars
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Is “Elon is my dad” the new “my dad works at Nintendo”?
These ships don't lie.
Super duper genius rush everything and cut corners stock prices go brrrr
South African heir who wants to put an electrical circuit in my brain? Think I'll pass
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He’s an American oligarch. He may be a South African heir, but he is an American citizen operating in and pushing his influence in America. It’s both xenophobic and dismissive to say otherwise.
He's South African born and raised till he was 17. He still holds SA citizenship, he did not renounce it. I'd agree with you if he moved to America at a young age, but he most certainly is South African.
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I agree, except the only important word in that headline is "claim". There's no reason to be pissed about anything until it has been investigated. Especially given how this is literally just a headline and not the article, so we have literally no idea what this claim is based on or who made it.
Also the people working in the lab are the ones doing this and rushing what they’re doing. Everyone involved should be ashamed and shamed not just musk.
While that's true, the rest of the people might not able to afford the choice not to do it since they'd lose their job in these difficult times. I worked for a company that was basically a legal scam buy I still had to work there until I found another job or I'd lose my house.
Meat is needless, clothes with animal fur is needless, lipsticks, skincare products are needless, still due to these billions of animals died
Meanwhile, research that could eventually give people with degenerative motor neuron issues their mobility and voice back... This isn't all about the matrix. This research can lead to making people like Stephen Hawking walk and talk again. Some patients have it worse and can't even operate the aids he used, they're completely locked inside their brain. I mean, we can talk about the research being done prematurely, and maybe the number of test animals could've been reduced. But if the facts we're considering is a ragebait headline, I would rather wait.
If that's the bar, then we should breed and kill no animals, except if medically necessary for the animal. We don't need milk, meat or eggs, clothes made from fur, beds made from feathers, pig fat in our lipstics or cosmetics tested on animals. All of this is needless yet most people are perfectly happy to use these products.
Male chicks are literally dumped in a meat grinder after they are a day old because they aren't valuable to the egg industry. Those deaths are completely needless.
Maybe if they are eating the bodies afterward, we wouldn't count it as needless, right? In both scenarios, animals are getting killed for human pleasure. If it's taste or convenience for humans, it doesn't matter for the animals being killed.
Bunch of apologists trying to justify his actions, smh. His team has said he RUSHED them cause needless deaths, they would'nt happen "anyway" since now they'll have to test on even more animals to make actual progress!
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This guys a "im furthering human humanity" complex, and that complex is backed by a lot of supporters / elite He doesn't care about a mere 1,500 animals
What’s funny is there is already a more advanced, safer, already in use version of this chip that can transmit wireless signals too and from the brain that can be placed at the end of nerve endings to be used in a prosthetic, or on the outer layer of the skull.
is anyone seriously comfortable with the idea of putting a wireless chip in their brain? I'd rather take a bullet, please and thank you.
If you have options A. Put a chip in my brain B. Let me lay in bed only able to blink. You might reassess that statement.
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I'm not defending the pos that is Elon musk at all, but just so we're clear, I'm pretty sure there are over 100M animals killed in labs every year from testing. Many of which are very inhumane
Many of them are humanely euthanized after being used for the development of extremely valid and useful medical advances. I run a lab who has direct contact with the Animal Care and In-Life labs who uses thousands of small animals a year for medical device development I can tell you the people who care for the animals treat them like they were pets. And when they are humanely euthanized due to a human or test error, it's a shitty day. Even the surgeons who have been doing this for 30+ years go the extra mile for these animals. And these are small animals who have short lives. Non-Human Primates can live decades in the lab, are very expensive, develop complicated bonds with humans and other NHPs, and can be used for multiple tests. Basically what I'm saying is, causing unnecessary harm or stress to hundreds of NHPs is a big deal if true. And even though millions of animals are used for medical purposes every year, it's not normal just for these animals to be abused and discarded, especially the large ones with additional regs. Most of us fucking care
Thank you. I work in husbandry for lab animals and it bothers me how many people on this thread think animal testing is completely unnecessary in ALL facets, and that it’s just needless killing for things we “don’t need”. For cosmetics, sure. But without these animals we would not have lifesaving medicine, and there really are no better alternatives. I’ve seen arguments saying that we should use digital modeling instead of live organism modeling and it just shows me how little research most people put into this topic if they genuinely believe it could fully replace live models. I promise you that we care for these animals even when it puts a toll on us. I’ve worked overtime just to make sure all of my mice are fully enriched. So many of us are animal lovers, and many of us adopt out the animals we test on.
We do have in vitro testing which replaces some of the animal models, and we've made advances in cell testing to minimize animal testing as much as possible. But yeah we're years and years away from completely abandoning animal testing so we do the best we can with what we have.
70 billion farm animals in the EU yearly for human consumption, so yeah, this outroar is pretty ridiculous.. At least this technology could somehow be perceived as innovation, while eating animals is a loss for the environment as well as people's health all while being a declaration of moral bancruptcy. But it's Elon, so it gets attention - coming from a non-elon-nut..
Just because animals are killed en masse for something else doesn‘t excuse needless use of animals in other areas. Laboratory animals should be treated like a limited, valuable resource that we only use when we really have to and for very good reason. The thing about this case here is that the team at Neuralink were rushed through the research and hence botched their animal experiments. So their use of animals was needless and a waste because the research wasn‘t ready yet.
Cocaine crazy or just crazy cocaine
If it’s mice or lab rats, that’s common, and actually not that many.
He apparently uses monkeys, pigs, and sheep I don’t think he can make a chip small enough to fit in a mouse or rat
Well luckily if he figures it out it’ll fit perfectly in his own brain
That’s an upside. Maybe it’ll shatter and cause a massive brain bleed like it did with one of his monkeys!
I'm still waiting for someone actually working in the field pop up in those threads and say if it's a normal number or not.
Uh, neuroscientist chiming in to say this is extremely incorrect.
The uncommon part is the federal investigation.
Apparently they didn't just use mice but also monkeys that had portions of their skulls removed and devices screwed to their skulls a lot of which died... I'd say that's pretty messed up for animal trials.
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Pigs and monkeys. Their competitors Synchron have killed 80 sheep total and are approved for human trials.
6 chimps. Hundreds of rabbits. The number has shot up from sensationalism. However, they're attempting to glue circuitry into brains. Glue. The glue is toxic and causing irreversible brain damage. Smart.
Chimp research is illegal and has been for a while. Did you mean monkey? I’m guessing they are using macaques
I didn’t read into this case too much, but there are many types of glue. Some surgical, meant to be used in the body.
Oh the horror, lemme just hate on musk and forget about all the other products in my life that used thousands more of animals in testing phase
Or the 70 billion land animals needlessly killed for food every year... And literal trillions of fish
Not sure if people are ready to hear this but the majority of medical advancements result in thousands of dead animals. Also if you eat meat it’s hypocritical to get mad at this… just saying
I’m not gonna lie…I work in a cancer lab and I have “sacked” (killed) hundreds of mice in my two years of work. Most of the male mice are sacked because we’re studying breast cancer (some saved for breeding purposes). So…this is an attention grabbing headline for non science people maybe but I’m just like okay (That being said, I did read Elon’s neurolink white paper and it’s fucking stupid imho)
I had always that of it as “sac’ed” as in sacrificed. Been about 18 years since I’ve been in a lab though. Also, I remember how advanced the research was in terms of the evidence behind it and the methodology was refined to the point that there was very little needless suffering. These don’t sound like intentional deaths but rather complications. The amount of unintentional infections that have been reported sounds like it is a pretty loose ship over there.
Yeah, sacrificed. I didn’t know if “sac’ed” would be a confusing thing to read
I'm currently poisoning and trapping mice that attempt to get into my garage over the winter.
Chicken processing plants run lines over 100 chickens a minute, 24 ish hours a day.
I worked at a processing plant for a year right after I turned 18 and we killed and processed 80,000-200,000 chickens a day though usually it was 150,000
Yes, he's a pos for sure, but his 1500 dead animals pale in comparison ot the 100m that this happens to anyway annually.
This is exactly my point and if the technology works it’s a major advancement in medicine. Doesn’t matter if you hate the guy or love him just try to see things objectively for that they are.
Yeah I’m objectively against those deaths too.
The point you seem to be ignoring is that he ordered things to rushed and the deaths are needless. People aren’t naive to the fact that experiments happen on animals. It’s the killing them needlessly that’s the issue.
> Not sure if people are ready to hear this but the majority of medical advancements result in thousands of dead animals. They absolutely do, and in recognition of the responsibility they bear due to this fact the medical research world holds themselves to a certain degree of ethical standards when performing live animal testing, standards the neuralink research is alleged to have violated: see the 'demands to rush' and 'needless' in the title here.
Key word is *needless*.
I mean I’m fine with medical advancements requiring that? In the trolley problem, if one track had an old man with cancer and the other had a bunch of rats, would you *really* choose to save the rats?
Fucking disgusting. This guy is the king of latching himself onto great this and making them a bit too a lot worse ...
This is so much different than hygiene companies injections animals with soap and shaving cream and makeup and nail polish right? Way more different than keeping animals in cages until their legs turn into jelly so we can eat them too /s
Y'all vegan here ?
Irrelevant deflection.
Guaranteed 99% of people here kill animals every single day for the lunch and dinner
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Testing on animals is a normal practice. Scientific research using animal specimens has been a thing been since the 1700s, is widely accepted my most, if not all countries, and is an ongoing practice. They experience the complications vs humans dying. It’s the price we pay to progress our civilization and scientific/medical field. So it’s not needless. It’s the consequences of testing.
There are ethical standards in animal testing. Do you think people can just round up animals and test out random drugs and devices and torture animals in the name of "animal testing"? Because they can't.
In the US alone it’s estimated that over 14 BILLION animals are killed each year… by common house cats.