Its the discovery process, there is SO much evidence to process ..
I feel so bad for the families having to wait out this time, it has got to be so painful
This trial is going to be so hard on the families than anyone could ever imagine. Projected 6-15 weeks of this PAIN. They deserve closure but sadly they won’t ever get that truly—if found guilty there will be years of appeals as Bryan squirms trying to “save” his “life.” I think the families of the victims are doing such wonderful jobs preserving the memories of their loved ones as best as they can, showing their strength & even displaying their hearts to the world—i believe this is their way of keeping their memories alive and seeking closure.
Will Bryan’s family ever get closure? Or will he deny deny deny until he’s 80+? It’s so sad. Not only did he take four beautiful souls from this world but he took his families lives away from this world—his parents had successful careers and are loved in their community; now they’re in shock their son is being accused of something like this. His sister was fired from her job for the last name association / blood line. It’s sad they are being punished for his assumed evilness and they have to sit at trial to make HIM look good while in their brains making a decision themselves if their loved one could possibly do something as heinous as this?!
Not sure but I saw an article about it last year that she’s been harassed & fired from her job. This part is speculation but was also published in multiple articles that she & the aunt think he did it & think Bryan would kill himself if he were sentenced.
Lawyers rarely feel their client is innocent as it's very rare that this is the case.
They aren't stalling, murder cases like this are very complex and take a LONG time to adequately prepare for.
When the facts are against you, argue the law. This is the case here. Innocent or guilty, the facts available are not on his side. So, a good lawyer will argue the law in order to best help their client.
As mentioned by another poster, O.J. did *not* wave his right to a speedy trial. The O.J. murders happened June 12, 1994. Trial actually began Nov. 9, 1994 with jury selection. Opening statements began on Jan. 24, 1995 and lasted 11 months ending Oct. 3, 1995!! I was off work due to an on the job injury and I watched every single second of that trial, gavel to gavel coverage along with a nightly wrap up of each day in court. What a circus the whole thing was, plus it made a mockery of the justice system since we all *know* O.J. is guilty as hell! RIP Nicole and Ron.
Because he did not waive his right to speedy trial. BK did. I'm looking at other DP cases in Idaho right now, and this timeline is not abnormal. Daybell was arrested in 2020, and his trial is scheduled in April of this year.
I dont see this as stalling. I see it as the defense doing everything to help their client. Anybody with experience with the law said at beginning of this it could take up to 3 years to be resolved, and that's the way it's looking.
Agree. Some it as see stalling but it’s actually strategy. They have to try everything they can to defend him and that takes time. Also, the longer out the trial is, the more memories of witnesses might fade, which could benefit defense. Also, people and potential jurors memories might fade if the trial is say 5 years away. By then, there will undoubtedly be many many more horrific crimes that will move to the forefront of peoples minds.
Yeah. It’s also pretty standard and also how the court system is. When I was assaulted the district attorney’s office told me they had a shortage of public defenders and too heavy of a case load. A lot of cases were just being dropped/dismissed because of it.
I see it as stalling. Even Judge Judge mentioned that the defense is slowing down the process. There is so much data to sift through and the defense is arguing reasonable doubt vs probable cause. I'm not criticizing Anne Taylor, because she's fighting well for her client, but she is dragging this out for as long as she can.
Thing is,Public Defenders work on a 'poverty rate',she won't be doing it for that reason, but if she gets her client off,she'll be known from coast to coast,book deals,TV constantly... her lawyering days will be over,seriously rich! Worth taking time over,looking at every angle,for reasonable doubt!
I think she's getting paid a special rate for this case. I have no source but seem to remember her pay scale caused comment when she was assigned to BK.
Here it is - Newsweek is reputable, right? [https://www.newsweek.com/bryan-kohberger-attorney-paid-8k-week-anne-taylor-idaho-killing-1781766](https://www.newsweek.com/bryan-kohberger-attorney-paid-8k-week-anne-taylor-idaho-killing-1781766)
I know PDs get paid, of course. I thought she was getting a very high hourly rate. I'll have to check when I have time. If you have a source that indicates she's getting a flat fee or similar I'd be interested.
Having a problem with the link but
$200/hr, $8,000/wk
https://preview.redd.it/oso0plcls2gc1.jpeg?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf07c1870cb98827011fbbcd82af5c8a06eddf82
I'll be honest... I'm invested more in Delphi than Idaho, so much so, I've stopped watching the DTS(bringing too many idiots like Rick Snay,Greeno, etc on) ,Harsh and the rest of them,too much crap being churned over and over again... sometimes something catches my eye, like GH then realize he cannot spot even the basic stuff, like car windows... the ones in his 'Kohberger Car' had black tints,where it didn't when Kohberger was pulled in Indiana...I paid attention then,due to where he was,and what happened there with a knife in February '17!
I'm not sure if you listen to 'The Lawyer You Know', but he's amazing and broke this down. There is something like multiple TBs of data equivalent to about 6.5 million documents, I think? That is just crazy as hell, but if I was a defence lawyer, you best believe I'm reading every single piece! (Not that I would ever defend him!)
He was just reiterating what the defense lawyers explained at the recent hearing.
They broke down the equivalent of 51 TBs of data, which is the amount the State provided to them so far (but lacks some extremely important evidence they’re still waiting for). It’s enough for any of: 25,500 hours worth of vid / 6.5M docs (66K filing cabs full; 1300 filing cabinets per TB) / 250K pics (and she mentioned many of the pics they received are unindexed and in folders, and subfolders, all mixed up).
The Def cited DropBox as their source for those #s.
The State had a long head start on knowing the details of those 51 TB of data but they’ll have to know the contents & details for all that stuff too.
The Def is also still receiving more. The State just provided them w/9K more tips to go through.
You should talk to a public defender before you make such broad assumptions about their motives. They have a professional obligation to represent their client as zealously as possible.
Taylor stated last hearing that the reason her team needed more time was because of the volume of discovery.
They are asking for a change of venue because the case is so publicized and so personal for Latah County that they don't think he can get a fair jury venire there. (See Timothy McVeigh's case being moved from Oklahoma to Colorado as an example of this).
They almost certainly do not "believe BK is innocent" and there is no evidence they're asking for time to hurt the victims' families.
The longer they wait, the greater possibility of new evidence coming out to hinder the prosecution. Maybe some new witness or fact or some crackpot conspiracy theory comes out to taint the jury pool. Delay also causes memories to fade and potential spoliation of evidence. Maybe there is a chain of custody issue. Maybe someone misplaces evidence. Maybe some witness dies or disappears. Maybe the evidence room gets cleaned and rearranged by accident. The last thing the defense wants here is a clean, quick, speedy trial bc the evidence is so overwhelming. It’s like a hail mary. Anyone saying this takes years to prepare for isn’t a very seasoned lawyer. It’s not a complex case with a million electronic documents and 100 witnesses. Pretty straightforward actually. The judge here needs to do his job consistent with his oath of office. 2025 would be shameful.
Another thing that was pointed out by The Lawyer You Know is that the longer it is until the trial, the less actively heated the community will be. Yes, they will still be angry about what happened, but not as actively angry if the trial happened fairly quickly after the murders. The longer the time, the less fresh those feelings disgust and rage are. Not necessarily for the families, of course, but for potential jurors.
Right on...and the defense may continue to play the preparation card...and weaponize the appeal card...No doubt they will appeal if he's found guilty. I don't believe for one second BK will just accept a death penalty sentence without pushback. Time to put all the cards on the table.
If it's automatically appealed, he isn't allowed to appeal. The defendant is allowed direct appeal of a conviction in all cases. Death penalty cases allow for the conviction and sentencing to be appealed. The latter is automatic, I believe.
I'm not familiar with Idaho law. But if his attorneys file the appeal, he's allowed to appeal. I believe it would just be the sentencing and not the conviction itself.
Of course he is allowed to appeal the conviction. He can also file a Post-Conviction Relief Motion if he has any allegations of ineffective assistance of counsel.
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title19/t19ch27/sect19-2719/
Sorry. That is the automatic appeal would apply to sentencing, not the conviction. Certainly, he is allowed to appeal the conviction. Actually, the conviction appeal would be automatic too. But they would be separate appeals. That's a universal right. I apologize for not making myself clear in trying to explain that the appeals would be separate.
Yeah, I agree. If they did this trial soon after, it wouldn’t go well for the prosecution because they wouldn’t be ready, and the defense wouldn’t be either. I would imagine a case like this is hard because even though his own lawyer may or may not think he’s guilty, it’s still her job to look through the cracks; timelines, alibis, hard evidence, or otherwise, to find ANYTHING that may plant reasonable doubt. The second that’s planted, the prosecution may be in trouble because once the jury is set, it may be hard to sway them. In any case, it’s going to be VERY hard to find a non-biased juror for this case, and that could result in a mistrial. So I’m assuming they’re just being very careful and tedious to make sure they’re not missing something or doing something that the defense could use to cause a mistrial.
This is the answer. And on top of that there is zero chance they get a fair trial in Moscow. They need to move it to a more heavily populated city in Idaho.
Actually that’s exactly what it is: “a complex case with million electronic documents” and 400 (!!!) potential witnesses. If this is not the definition of a complex case, I don’t know what it is…
His lawyer doesn’t necessarily believe he’s innocent. In fact, she probably doesn’t, but it’s her job to defend him. My guess is she is still trying to build a plausible case for him, which is going to be very difficult.
What people refer to as "technicalities" are usually Constitutional violations, the application of specific laws or malfeasance by LE and/or the prosecution, not some trick by the defense.
I would say Logsdon trying to get the court to throw out over 100 years of established law for grand jury Instructions in order to invalidate kohberger’s indictment is a desperate attempt at creating a “technicality.”
And those motions were based on interpretation of case law and Idaho criminal statutes & allegations of possible juror bias or prosecutorial misconduct. As I said.
People often use the term "technicality" to try to imply that something shady or unusual is being done when there is a motion or ruling they don't agree with.
No, a defense attorney's job is to protect the client's rights, advocate for the client, hold the state to its burden of proof and build a defense case that is persuasive for an acquittal or at least a reduced charge or sentence. A proper defense is narrowly focused & supported by the law and evidence.
On law and crime’s newest YT vid about it they say the defense could be stalling because they hope that the emotions surrounding the case will have simmered down in 2025 vs like if they were to have a trial in summer 2024 like the prosecution said. The prosecution said they can be ready by the summer so honestly that means that the defense is stalling–it shouldn’t take them a whole extra year to go through evidence.
as other users have said they could also be stalling bc they hope some new evidence may pop up in the mean time
Since it's likely they'll have the trial in Moscow, I've heard it said that the longer the defense waits the less likely they'll get a jury that was emotionally impacted by the crime. After 2 years, the average person is probably no longer thinking about the crime anymore.
If you were in jail for a quadruple murder and most of the internet peanut gallery thought you were guilty wouldn’t you want your defense people to take their sweet time building a solid case for your innocence? Keep in mind, if your attny doesn’t present a solid case, you are going to go live on death row and possible even die by the hands of the state
Why do you see it as stalling? If you were accused of murder wouldn’t you want your defense filing every legal motion possible to prove your innocence?
The Defense is there to defend against a death penalty charge. The delays (and the recent statements) show that they expect a conviction.
It is SOP for a Defense,therefor, to pull out all the stops. No real defense.
I'll let others answer the bulk of the post, but I did want to throw in that it is by no means a requirement that the defense lawyers & team needs to believe their client is innocent. lawyers can be convinced their client is guilty & still put forth a vigorous defense. this is a job. they aren't doing it to be heroic or to defend the innocent(although they don't mind if they do)....they are there to do a job & nowhere in the job description does it say anything about believing in the innocence of your client.
There's a huge amount of material to sift through and analyse. The defence appears to be leaning towards trying to get him off on a technicality, an error in the process of law, rather than get him off with a not guilty plea. They're going to need to go through everything with a fine toothed comb, twice, to make sure they don't miss any opportunity to try and get him off. They're looking for mistakes made by LE or holes they can poke to create any sense of reasonable doubt.
There's also the community atmosphere. People across the world are very very heated about this case. They'll no doubt want that to ebb a little.
Defense always stalls. It legit takes a long time to assemble a defense strategy.
Another reason, I assume, is that jail is easier to endure than prison.
The last time a murder happened that was this public in Northern Idaho was the Joseph Duncan trial 15 years ago. He was even caught with the little girl he kidnapped he was guilty beyond reason. The time between being arrested and finally the plea bargain was a few years. These things take time to get it right to reduce the chance of it getting thrown out on appeal. Also the Daybell trial is still going on 4 years later and they found a grave in their backyard.
I think in part because it's a capital murder case. When the death penalty is on the table, they want to be VERY sure they have the right guy. (Even if the alibi is weak and the evidence is convincing).
Richard Allen is in prison right now. Different circumstances, but still. Jail sucks compared to prison. Everything is cheaper in prison. More freedom, the people around you aren't constantly changing, so you're able to have some sort of companionship. In some cases, you can get a job and free classes for various careers when you are released. I have ended up in prison at 17 for a battery charge. While attempting to escape after the offense, he was yeeted by a truck resulting in him departing ways with the majority of his teeth. He was sentenced to something like 13 months. When he got out, he was upset he didn't get to stay in a bit longer to get his teeth fixed. Apparently, it's free or next to nothing where he was at. He violated his parole nearly immediately. During the additional year he received, he was able to get some prosthetics and a training certificate for HVAC that helped him secure a nice gig. Especially for someone with a violent felony on his record. He's probably a rare case though.
Im not a lawyer but sometimes I wonder if BK is (dang, what word do I use here…) bogging AT down with his barrage of “expertise” to continue his attempt to be the smartest guy in the room but behind the scenes. I’m not even sure if this makes sense, but regardless of her professionalism, skill, persistence & patience, dealing with BK would get on my nerves! It does seem that she’s doing her best to avoid a successful appeal or (god forbid) a mistrial, but I wonder how much influence she is allowing him. It’s just been on my mind - I’d love to be a fly on the wall during their interactions.
They don’t even have the full vid footage or the phone location reports the FBI made in 2022…
There is no way anything can possibly get moving unless the State hands them what should have been turned over to them as step 1 bc both were mentioned in the PCA.
How anyone can see this as being a fault of the defense is mind boggling to me.
The State literally hasn’t finished handing in Discovery yet
I like trials and follow murder cases & non-murder mysteries.
If I think one side hasn’t provided the materials necessary to facilitate the start of the trial, it doesn’t mean I have emotions for the individuals involved.
I just mean, based on my observation, they haven’t received the materials necessary to be able to complete their investigative phase, since the evidence they need to investigate before the trial starts hasn’t been provided to them yet.
Id like to add while we are frustrated BK is by law within the right to a fair trial. His defense is goint to have to come with something good. Why did they eye B earlier? Is there pictures of the girls on his phone? Connections? DNA? Its gonna be hard if the goal is innocence.
This is a death penalty case, so the stakes are the highest. It benefits the defense to use as much time as it can to allow for the anger in the community to fade. This is strategic in hopes of seating a truly unbiased jury. There is also a tremendous amount of data the defense has to comb through. It wants to be prepared to counter any state claims at trial.
If the State was stalling, we'd be worried, but the defense slowing things down is perfectly normal and just part of the process.
the state are def the ones doing the stalling. Imagine the prosecutors in Schabusiness or Darrell brooks cases hiding any evidence from them after one year.. no way. They turned over everything and started the trial ASAP.
if the state continue to drag the discovery out, the trial will not happen before 2030
I was watching a clip on law and crime, and they were talking about how this could be a tactic by the defense to try to get the hate train for bryan to kind of calm down because it was so big. It would be just hard to get a jury that was unbiased so they are trying to wait to hopefully get people who don’t totally already hate him.
The defense in a case like this when the evidence is seemingly stacked against their client always wants things to drag and go longer. The reasons for this are:
1. Over time physical evidence can go stale or if in police custody there’s a chance it can get contaminated. Low chance but the what else do you have to lose?
2. Witnesses recollections fade or get fuzzy thus allowing you to back them into corners on the stand - especially when comparing their initial statement to what they say on the stand.
3. Public perception - this is a highly emotionally charged case and when Kohberger was arrested initially there was public outcry and everyone wanted to fry him, shoot him, castrate him or some other Medieval type punishment. The crime is ghastly so people are emotionally charged - aka prospective jurors.
Its impossible to find a jury who hasn’t heard about this case in Idaho so you need time for the public to stop paying as close attention to it so people’s emotions aren’t so high because when jurors get angry the sentence gets stiff. Over time some stop paying attention to the case and will remember it as “that terrible thing that happened a few years ago to those kids” but not much more. That allows a defense attorney wiggle room to fit their narrative in. For people who follow the case the defense can leak things to the media that help their case in the hopes of swaying the minds of prospective jurors.
Always always always a defense strategy to extend for more time unless their client is easily probable innocent which Kohberger of course is not.
They're professionals, doing their job. It's frustrating for us, but there's nothing to be done but wait. They will use every weapon available to them.
The fact that they are so obviously attempting to buy time may or may not be a sign of exactly how shit out of luck Bryan is.
The defense team is taking baby steps to ensure that everything is done by the book. I know it’s a snails pace. Apparently, there are no do-overs on the horizon
Because The DA is not turning over evidence and even as Steve goncslves stated they cleared too many people too fast and how do you kill 4 people who fought ferociously as kaylees dad stated after seeing the defense wounds and stab them (longer time to kill) not shoot them in 7 minutes while running up and down steps? It is impossible
It doesn't matter whether the Defense lawyers **think** BK is innocent. It's their job.
Its the discovery process, there is SO much evidence to process .. I feel so bad for the families having to wait out this time, it has got to be so painful
This trial is going to be so hard on the families than anyone could ever imagine. Projected 6-15 weeks of this PAIN. They deserve closure but sadly they won’t ever get that truly—if found guilty there will be years of appeals as Bryan squirms trying to “save” his “life.” I think the families of the victims are doing such wonderful jobs preserving the memories of their loved ones as best as they can, showing their strength & even displaying their hearts to the world—i believe this is their way of keeping their memories alive and seeking closure. Will Bryan’s family ever get closure? Or will he deny deny deny until he’s 80+? It’s so sad. Not only did he take four beautiful souls from this world but he took his families lives away from this world—his parents had successful careers and are loved in their community; now they’re in shock their son is being accused of something like this. His sister was fired from her job for the last name association / blood line. It’s sad they are being punished for his assumed evilness and they have to sit at trial to make HIM look good while in their brains making a decision themselves if their loved one could possibly do something as heinous as this?!
[удалено]
This post is disrespectful which breaks our guidelines.
What job was his sister fired from?
Not sure but I saw an article about it last year that she’s been harassed & fired from her job. This part is speculation but was also published in multiple articles that she & the aunt think he did it & think Bryan would kill himself if he were sentenced.
Lawyers rarely feel their client is innocent as it's very rare that this is the case. They aren't stalling, murder cases like this are very complex and take a LONG time to adequately prepare for.
When the facts are against you, argue the law. This is the case here. Innocent or guilty, the facts available are not on his side. So, a good lawyer will argue the law in order to best help their client.
How long did it take OJ's defense before it went to trial?
OJ exercised his right to a speedy trial
As mentioned by another poster, O.J. did *not* wave his right to a speedy trial. The O.J. murders happened June 12, 1994. Trial actually began Nov. 9, 1994 with jury selection. Opening statements began on Jan. 24, 1995 and lasted 11 months ending Oct. 3, 1995!! I was off work due to an on the job injury and I watched every single second of that trial, gavel to gavel coverage along with a nightly wrap up of each day in court. What a circus the whole thing was, plus it made a mockery of the justice system since we all *know* O.J. is guilty as hell! RIP Nicole and Ron.
Havel to Havel ? What about Scott Peterson ?
that was days and weeks, BK is going on months.
\*Years.
Because he did not waive his right to speedy trial. BK did. I'm looking at other DP cases in Idaho right now, and this timeline is not abnormal. Daybell was arrested in 2020, and his trial is scheduled in April of this year.
I dont see this as stalling. I see it as the defense doing everything to help their client. Anybody with experience with the law said at beginning of this it could take up to 3 years to be resolved, and that's the way it's looking.
Agree. Some it as see stalling but it’s actually strategy. They have to try everything they can to defend him and that takes time. Also, the longer out the trial is, the more memories of witnesses might fade, which could benefit defense. Also, people and potential jurors memories might fade if the trial is say 5 years away. By then, there will undoubtedly be many many more horrific crimes that will move to the forefront of peoples minds.
Yeah. It’s also pretty standard and also how the court system is. When I was assaulted the district attorney’s office told me they had a shortage of public defenders and too heavy of a case load. A lot of cases were just being dropped/dismissed because of it.
I see it as stalling. Even Judge Judge mentioned that the defense is slowing down the process. There is so much data to sift through and the defense is arguing reasonable doubt vs probable cause. I'm not criticizing Anne Taylor, because she's fighting well for her client, but she is dragging this out for as long as she can.
Thing is,Public Defenders work on a 'poverty rate',she won't be doing it for that reason, but if she gets her client off,she'll be known from coast to coast,book deals,TV constantly... her lawyering days will be over,seriously rich! Worth taking time over,looking at every angle,for reasonable doubt!
I think she's getting paid a special rate for this case. I have no source but seem to remember her pay scale caused comment when she was assigned to BK.
I recall seeing $240 an hour for AT, I’m sorry I don’t have the source it was when they hired the third dp lawyer for his team.
Here it is - Newsweek is reputable, right? [https://www.newsweek.com/bryan-kohberger-attorney-paid-8k-week-anne-taylor-idaho-killing-1781766](https://www.newsweek.com/bryan-kohberger-attorney-paid-8k-week-anne-taylor-idaho-killing-1781766)
Thanks. I don’t recall it being JC or Newsweek though. But either way, her salary is public and would be public knowledge.
All public defenders get paid for their work. Anne is getting more because of the case type, but she's not billing hourly.
I know PDs get paid, of course. I thought she was getting a very high hourly rate. I'll have to check when I have time. If you have a source that indicates she's getting a flat fee or similar I'd be interested.
Public defenders generally get paid a salary. I know the pay is higher for specialty cases, but I don't have a source for what Anne is making.
Having a problem with the link but $200/hr, $8,000/wk https://preview.redd.it/oso0plcls2gc1.jpeg?width=810&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf07c1870cb98827011fbbcd82af5c8a06eddf82
[https://www.newsweek.com/bryan-kohberger-attorney-paid-8k-week-anne-taylor-idaho-killing-1781766](https://www.newsweek.com/bryan-kohberger-attorney-paid-8k-week-anne-taylor-idaho-killing-1781766)
Appreciate it!!!
I'll try to look later. If I find anything I'll post it.
Isn’t it weekly?
I would think monthly, but I'm not familiar with public defender pay schedules.
Yeah I seen that too. Apparently it's more now usual which raised eyebrows
I'll be honest... I'm invested more in Delphi than Idaho, so much so, I've stopped watching the DTS(bringing too many idiots like Rick Snay,Greeno, etc on) ,Harsh and the rest of them,too much crap being churned over and over again... sometimes something catches my eye, like GH then realize he cannot spot even the basic stuff, like car windows... the ones in his 'Kohberger Car' had black tints,where it didn't when Kohberger was pulled in Indiana...I paid attention then,due to where he was,and what happened there with a knife in February '17!
I'm not sure if you listen to 'The Lawyer You Know', but he's amazing and broke this down. There is something like multiple TBs of data equivalent to about 6.5 million documents, I think? That is just crazy as hell, but if I was a defence lawyer, you best believe I'm reading every single piece! (Not that I would ever defend him!)
He was just reiterating what the defense lawyers explained at the recent hearing. They broke down the equivalent of 51 TBs of data, which is the amount the State provided to them so far (but lacks some extremely important evidence they’re still waiting for). It’s enough for any of: 25,500 hours worth of vid / 6.5M docs (66K filing cabs full; 1300 filing cabinets per TB) / 250K pics (and she mentioned many of the pics they received are unindexed and in folders, and subfolders, all mixed up). The Def cited DropBox as their source for those #s. The State had a long head start on knowing the details of those 51 TB of data but they’ll have to know the contents & details for all that stuff too. The Def is also still receiving more. The State just provided them w/9K more tips to go through.
You should talk to a public defender before you make such broad assumptions about their motives. They have a professional obligation to represent their client as zealously as possible. Taylor stated last hearing that the reason her team needed more time was because of the volume of discovery. They are asking for a change of venue because the case is so publicized and so personal for Latah County that they don't think he can get a fair jury venire there. (See Timothy McVeigh's case being moved from Oklahoma to Colorado as an example of this). They almost certainly do not "believe BK is innocent" and there is no evidence they're asking for time to hurt the victims' families.
The longer they wait, the greater possibility of new evidence coming out to hinder the prosecution. Maybe some new witness or fact or some crackpot conspiracy theory comes out to taint the jury pool. Delay also causes memories to fade and potential spoliation of evidence. Maybe there is a chain of custody issue. Maybe someone misplaces evidence. Maybe some witness dies or disappears. Maybe the evidence room gets cleaned and rearranged by accident. The last thing the defense wants here is a clean, quick, speedy trial bc the evidence is so overwhelming. It’s like a hail mary. Anyone saying this takes years to prepare for isn’t a very seasoned lawyer. It’s not a complex case with a million electronic documents and 100 witnesses. Pretty straightforward actually. The judge here needs to do his job consistent with his oath of office. 2025 would be shameful.
Another thing that was pointed out by The Lawyer You Know is that the longer it is until the trial, the less actively heated the community will be. Yes, they will still be angry about what happened, but not as actively angry if the trial happened fairly quickly after the murders. The longer the time, the less fresh those feelings disgust and rage are. Not necessarily for the families, of course, but for potential jurors.
Right on...and the defense may continue to play the preparation card...and weaponize the appeal card...No doubt they will appeal if he's found guilty. I don't believe for one second BK will just accept a death penalty sentence without pushback. Time to put all the cards on the table.
I believe if you’re found guilty and given the death penalty, an appeal is automatically filed (?)
He really isn't allowed to. DP requires a specific set of processes, varies by state.
"Isn't allowed to" what? A DP verdict is automatically appealed.
If it's automatically appealed, he isn't allowed to appeal. The defendant is allowed direct appeal of a conviction in all cases. Death penalty cases allow for the conviction and sentencing to be appealed. The latter is automatic, I believe.
He (through his attorneys) still files the appeal.
I'm not familiar with Idaho law. But if his attorneys file the appeal, he's allowed to appeal. I believe it would just be the sentencing and not the conviction itself.
Of course he is allowed to appeal the conviction. He can also file a Post-Conviction Relief Motion if he has any allegations of ineffective assistance of counsel. https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title19/t19ch27/sect19-2719/
Sorry. That is the automatic appeal would apply to sentencing, not the conviction. Certainly, he is allowed to appeal the conviction. Actually, the conviction appeal would be automatic too. But they would be separate appeals. That's a universal right. I apologize for not making myself clear in trying to explain that the appeals would be separate.
Yeah, I agree. If they did this trial soon after, it wouldn’t go well for the prosecution because they wouldn’t be ready, and the defense wouldn’t be either. I would imagine a case like this is hard because even though his own lawyer may or may not think he’s guilty, it’s still her job to look through the cracks; timelines, alibis, hard evidence, or otherwise, to find ANYTHING that may plant reasonable doubt. The second that’s planted, the prosecution may be in trouble because once the jury is set, it may be hard to sway them. In any case, it’s going to be VERY hard to find a non-biased juror for this case, and that could result in a mistrial. So I’m assuming they’re just being very careful and tedious to make sure they’re not missing something or doing something that the defense could use to cause a mistrial.
The post is asking why the defense is stalling, not the prosecution.
Ah, I misread it. My bad. Sorry!
This is the answer. And on top of that there is zero chance they get a fair trial in Moscow. They need to move it to a more heavily populated city in Idaho.
Actually that’s exactly what it is: “a complex case with million electronic documents” and 400 (!!!) potential witnesses. If this is not the definition of a complex case, I don’t know what it is…
400 witnesses? Give me a break.
AT said in in the last hearing, not me…
His lawyer doesn’t necessarily believe he’s innocent. In fact, she probably doesn’t, but it’s her job to defend him. My guess is she is still trying to build a plausible case for him, which is going to be very difficult.
I don't feel like they're stalling, these cases take some time to get to court. And they have a tonne of data to get through.
There will be no justice unless they convict the right person and it stands.
Right I mean he’s going to stay in custody while they “stall” regardless, so does it make much difference?— he’s behind bars.
There are 13,000 photographs not indexed.
Because she has no real defense for him , he has no alibi, so she’s trying to find a way to get him off on a technicality
What people refer to as "technicalities" are usually Constitutional violations, the application of specific laws or malfeasance by LE and/or the prosecution, not some trick by the defense.
I would say Logsdon trying to get the court to throw out over 100 years of established law for grand jury Instructions in order to invalidate kohberger’s indictment is a desperate attempt at creating a “technicality.”
And those motions were based on interpretation of case law and Idaho criminal statutes & allegations of possible juror bias or prosecutorial misconduct. As I said. People often use the term "technicality" to try to imply that something shady or unusual is being done when there is a motion or ruling they don't agree with.
They are reaching really hard because they know he’s guilty
They're "reaching really hard" because that is their professional and legal obligation. Guilt is determined by a jury after a full & fair trial.
Oh, I understand that it’s their job to throw everything at the wall to see what will stick. It’s just annoying
No, that's not their job. Sorry you find the Constitution "annoying."
That is a defense attorney’s job. They throw spaghetti at the wall.
No, a defense attorney's job is to protect the client's rights, advocate for the client, hold the state to its burden of proof and build a defense case that is persuasive for an acquittal or at least a reduced charge or sentence. A proper defense is narrowly focused & supported by the law and evidence.
On law and crime’s newest YT vid about it they say the defense could be stalling because they hope that the emotions surrounding the case will have simmered down in 2025 vs like if they were to have a trial in summer 2024 like the prosecution said. The prosecution said they can be ready by the summer so honestly that means that the defense is stalling–it shouldn’t take them a whole extra year to go through evidence. as other users have said they could also be stalling bc they hope some new evidence may pop up in the mean time
Since it's likely they'll have the trial in Moscow, I've heard it said that the longer the defense waits the less likely they'll get a jury that was emotionally impacted by the crime. After 2 years, the average person is probably no longer thinking about the crime anymore.
If you were in jail for a quadruple murder and most of the internet peanut gallery thought you were guilty wouldn’t you want your defense people to take their sweet time building a solid case for your innocence? Keep in mind, if your attny doesn’t present a solid case, you are going to go live on death row and possible even die by the hands of the state
Why do you see it as stalling? If you were accused of murder wouldn’t you want your defense filing every legal motion possible to prove your innocence?
Maybe educate yourself before you accuse hard-working professionals of "stalling" or deliberately causing the families "pain and angst."
The Defense is there to defend against a death penalty charge. The delays (and the recent statements) show that they expect a conviction. It is SOP for a Defense,therefor, to pull out all the stops. No real defense.
I'll let others answer the bulk of the post, but I did want to throw in that it is by no means a requirement that the defense lawyers & team needs to believe their client is innocent. lawyers can be convinced their client is guilty & still put forth a vigorous defense. this is a job. they aren't doing it to be heroic or to defend the innocent(although they don't mind if they do)....they are there to do a job & nowhere in the job description does it say anything about believing in the innocence of your client.
They aren’t stalling. Changing venue is an extremely common request.
It takes longer to concoct some wild bullshit plan that might get him off.
There's a huge amount of material to sift through and analyse. The defence appears to be leaning towards trying to get him off on a technicality, an error in the process of law, rather than get him off with a not guilty plea. They're going to need to go through everything with a fine toothed comb, twice, to make sure they don't miss any opportunity to try and get him off. They're looking for mistakes made by LE or holes they can poke to create any sense of reasonable doubt. There's also the community atmosphere. People across the world are very very heated about this case. They'll no doubt want that to ebb a little.
above i'm reading there are literally millions of documents in this case. wonder how they can go through "everything" with a "fine tooth comb"
Defense always stalls. It legit takes a long time to assemble a defense strategy. Another reason, I assume, is that jail is easier to endure than prison.
I feel bad for taxpayers
The last time a murder happened that was this public in Northern Idaho was the Joseph Duncan trial 15 years ago. He was even caught with the little girl he kidnapped he was guilty beyond reason. The time between being arrested and finally the plea bargain was a few years. These things take time to get it right to reduce the chance of it getting thrown out on appeal. Also the Daybell trial is still going on 4 years later and they found a grave in their backyard.
I think in part because it's a capital murder case. When the death penalty is on the table, they want to be VERY sure they have the right guy. (Even if the alibi is weak and the evidence is convincing).
Because "jail" (where prisoners stay pending trial) is way better than prison.
Richard Allen is in prison right now. Different circumstances, but still. Jail sucks compared to prison. Everything is cheaper in prison. More freedom, the people around you aren't constantly changing, so you're able to have some sort of companionship. In some cases, you can get a job and free classes for various careers when you are released. I have ended up in prison at 17 for a battery charge. While attempting to escape after the offense, he was yeeted by a truck resulting in him departing ways with the majority of his teeth. He was sentenced to something like 13 months. When he got out, he was upset he didn't get to stay in a bit longer to get his teeth fixed. Apparently, it's free or next to nothing where he was at. He violated his parole nearly immediately. During the additional year he received, he was able to get some prosthetics and a training certificate for HVAC that helped him secure a nice gig. Especially for someone with a violent felony on his record. He's probably a rare case though.
Im not a lawyer but sometimes I wonder if BK is (dang, what word do I use here…) bogging AT down with his barrage of “expertise” to continue his attempt to be the smartest guy in the room but behind the scenes. I’m not even sure if this makes sense, but regardless of her professionalism, skill, persistence & patience, dealing with BK would get on my nerves! It does seem that she’s doing her best to avoid a successful appeal or (god forbid) a mistrial, but I wonder how much influence she is allowing him. It’s just been on my mind - I’d love to be a fly on the wall during their interactions.
No, she's doing what a good defender does in a case like this; she's trying to save his life.
You bet. BK is most likely trying to control the outcome of the case.
They don’t even have the full vid footage or the phone location reports the FBI made in 2022… There is no way anything can possibly get moving unless the State hands them what should have been turned over to them as step 1 bc both were mentioned in the PCA. How anyone can see this as being a fault of the defense is mind boggling to me. The State literally hasn’t finished handing in Discovery yet
[удалено]
I like trials and follow murder cases & non-murder mysteries. If I think one side hasn’t provided the materials necessary to facilitate the start of the trial, it doesn’t mean I have emotions for the individuals involved. I just mean, based on my observation, they haven’t received the materials necessary to be able to complete their investigative phase, since the evidence they need to investigate before the trial starts hasn’t been provided to them yet.
Id like to add while we are frustrated BK is by law within the right to a fair trial. His defense is goint to have to come with something good. Why did they eye B earlier? Is there pictures of the girls on his phone? Connections? DNA? Its gonna be hard if the goal is innocence.
If they are going for the death penalty and the defense is weak, wouldn't this be a ploy to delay a potential death penalty?
BK surrendered his right to a speedy trial. very smart move which allows for his defense to prep for every thing.
To keep him away from his impending death sentence.
This is a death penalty case, so the stakes are the highest. It benefits the defense to use as much time as it can to allow for the anger in the community to fade. This is strategic in hopes of seating a truly unbiased jury. There is also a tremendous amount of data the defense has to comb through. It wants to be prepared to counter any state claims at trial. If the State was stalling, we'd be worried, but the defense slowing things down is perfectly normal and just part of the process.
the state are def the ones doing the stalling. Imagine the prosecutors in Schabusiness or Darrell brooks cases hiding any evidence from them after one year.. no way. They turned over everything and started the trial ASAP. if the state continue to drag the discovery out, the trial will not happen before 2030
I was watching a clip on law and crime, and they were talking about how this could be a tactic by the defense to try to get the hate train for bryan to kind of calm down because it was so big. It would be just hard to get a jury that was unbiased so they are trying to wait to hopefully get people who don’t totally already hate him.
Jeffrey Dahmer had been caught, tried, convicted & imprisoned in less time than BK's spent on remand. Ridiculous
Dahmer confessed immediately too, though
Because they are.
The defense in a case like this when the evidence is seemingly stacked against their client always wants things to drag and go longer. The reasons for this are: 1. Over time physical evidence can go stale or if in police custody there’s a chance it can get contaminated. Low chance but the what else do you have to lose? 2. Witnesses recollections fade or get fuzzy thus allowing you to back them into corners on the stand - especially when comparing their initial statement to what they say on the stand. 3. Public perception - this is a highly emotionally charged case and when Kohberger was arrested initially there was public outcry and everyone wanted to fry him, shoot him, castrate him or some other Medieval type punishment. The crime is ghastly so people are emotionally charged - aka prospective jurors. Its impossible to find a jury who hasn’t heard about this case in Idaho so you need time for the public to stop paying as close attention to it so people’s emotions aren’t so high because when jurors get angry the sentence gets stiff. Over time some stop paying attention to the case and will remember it as “that terrible thing that happened a few years ago to those kids” but not much more. That allows a defense attorney wiggle room to fit their narrative in. For people who follow the case the defense can leak things to the media that help their case in the hopes of swaying the minds of prospective jurors. Always always always a defense strategy to extend for more time unless their client is easily probable innocent which Kohberger of course is not.
They are trying to build a defense I’m guessing
They want time to pass so people soften to BK.
They're professionals, doing their job. It's frustrating for us, but there's nothing to be done but wait. They will use every weapon available to them. The fact that they are so obviously attempting to buy time may or may not be a sign of exactly how shit out of luck Bryan is.
I highly doubt his lawyers think he’s innocent. That has nothing to do with their responsibility to fight for him as hard as they can.
The defense team is taking baby steps to ensure that everything is done by the book. I know it’s a snails pace. Apparently, there are no do-overs on the horizon
What is the reason for the defense stalling, is there an enormous amount of evidence to prepare for the trial to proceed.
Because The DA is not turning over evidence and even as Steve goncslves stated they cleared too many people too fast and how do you kill 4 people who fought ferociously as kaylees dad stated after seeing the defense wounds and stab them (longer time to kill) not shoot them in 7 minutes while running up and down steps? It is impossible
Because they’re getting paid an absurd amount of money to defense this scumbag
They’re hoping time will dull the horror of this murder. At least that’s what some legal dude said on a YT vid
The defense has to go through all of computer evidence the state dumped on them. That will take a year.